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Ehman interview with NBC affiliate


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#1 PeterHuston

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:46 PM

Tom Ehman gave an interview to WGRZ, the local Buffalo NBC affiliate the afternoon of his Cupdate presentation at the Buffalo Yacht Club. Nice 4:26 piece.

http://www.wgrz.com/...d=1545772131001

#2 Te Kooti

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:39 PM

Tom Ehman gave an interview to WGRZ, the local Buffalo NBC affiliate the afternoon of his Cupdate presentation at the Buffalo Yacht Club. Nice 4:26 piece.

http://www.wgrz.com/...d=1545772131001



Yeah ... well .. Buffalo in winter!

In this clip Tom refers to the "4 teams" competing to race Oracle in the AC match.

Not 12 or 15. Four!

Buffalo YC founded in 1860.

Good one!

#3 ~Stingray~

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:54 AM

Finally watched this, TE gave a nice description of the sport of sailing and then the America's Cup, for the probable local audience. His complimenting of the light air skills behind him was good too.

Which reminds me, where is the 'Demon Ehman' and 'Larry Evilson' Indian the past few days? Figured he'd just rain-dance all over this seemingly innocent thread.

#4 Albatros

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:26 AM

Which reminds me, where is the 'Demon Ehman' and 'Larry Evilson' Indian the past few days? Figured he'd just rain-dance all over this seemingly innocent thread.

and when he isn't, you are, different sort of raindance but result is fairly similar. B)

question : is TE's mumbo jumbo about Buffalo being one of the technological centers of sailing just that, mumbo jumbo, or is there some truth in it ?

#5 Rennmaus

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:18 PM

Cannot listen to it ATM, is it the same?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2284087/KGO%20America's%20Cup%20Segment%20with%20Tom%20Ehman.mp3

#6 ~Stingray~

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:26 PM

It's different. This link worked better for me on this radio one



#7 Rennmaus

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:29 PM

^
Looks like the same link, but since you re-posted it... Does TE say anything of interest?

#8 ~Stingray~

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:32 PM

^
Looks like the same link, but since you re-posted it... Does TE say anything of interest?

TE gets interviewed and says that Aleph dropping out is balanced out by LR's entry, and remarks that for France "the good news is that Energy Team is looking good" to go the distance.

Not much else.

#9 DA-WOODY

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    COUGARS COUGARS & More COUGARS

Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:36 PM

^
Looks like the same link, but since you re-posted it... Does TE say anything of interest?


YES & Often but I've never seen him drinking a XX

Or was that in the ChillyBin in DAGO's DZ Party ?????

#10 MoMP

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:46 PM

Twice he mentioned a Buffalo company helping with technology. Why wouldn't he take the oppertunity to plug the company supporting his efforts? Way to build value....

#11 Rennmaus

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:02 PM


^
Looks like the same link, but since you re-posted it... Does TE say anything of interest?

TE gets interviewed and says that Aleph dropping out is balanced out by LR's entry, and remarks that for France "the good news is that Energy Team is looking good" to go the distance.

Not much else.

Thanks. Where have I heard (read) this argument before? Posted Image
Happy Easter holidays.



#12 ~Stingray~

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:09 PM

Thanks. Where have I heard (read) this argument before? Posted Image
Happy Easter holidays.

Great minds see some things the same way :)

Thanks - You too!

#13 PeterHuston

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:09 PM

Twice he mentioned a Buffalo company helping with technology. Why wouldn't he take the oppertunity to plug the company supporting his efforts? Way to build value....


Reason he can't mention the company is everyone is under an NDA.

#14 SW Sailor

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 10:20 PM

question : is TE's mumbo jumbo about Buffalo being one of the technological centers of sailing just that, mumbo jumbo, or is there some truth in it ?


Mumbo jumbo.

Not much if any industry infrastructure there.

BYC is a well established club but few if any competitive campaigns in the area came from BYC (not to be confused with Bayview YC in Detroit) from what I recall. Highlight of the season was the start of the Lake Erie race, which used to run from Buffalo NY to North Cape YC (Toledo Ohio).



#15 PeterHuston

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 10:51 PM


question : is TE's mumbo jumbo about Buffalo being one of the technological centers of sailing just that, mumbo jumbo, or is there some truth in it ?


Mumbo jumbo.

Not much if any industry infrastructure there.

BYC is a well established club but few if any competitive campaigns in the area came from BYC (not to be confused with Bayview YC in Detroit) from what I recall. Highlight of the season was the start of the Lake Erie race, which used to run from Buffalo NY to North Cape YC (Toledo Ohio).




You are correct that there isn't any obvious marine industry technology in Buffalo, but that isn't what Ehman was talking about.

In terms of competitive campaigns from Buffalo YC, two come to mind - Al Bernel's IOR 27.5 rating one tonner Abino Robin, which was a Hood designed centerboarded was a damn competitive boat in the mid-70s both on the SORC, and Bernie Blums Farr 36 Hot Tub was very competitive in the mid-80s, winning at least one race I can think of in the SORC, and doing well overall. Lately, Ted Johnson's JV 43 Damn Yankee, which is the old Admiral's Cupper Blue Yankee does well where ever it goes, and Kevin Gregory's Beneteau 44.7 Odyssey is very well sailed, though now basically in cruise mode in St. Thomas. Some pretty damn good 36.7 sailors too.

#16 MoMP

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:07 PM


Twice he mentioned a Buffalo company helping with technology. Why wouldn't he take the oppertunity to plug the company supporting his efforts? Way to build value....


Reason he can't mention the company is everyone is under an NDA.


I can't believe anyone working with Oracle isn't under an iron proof contract. Stupid corporate approach. Nobody wins (when perhaps the vendor would get some good light), everyone stays neutral at best. Ehman comes off like he either forgot the name of the vendor or arrogant. Well done, gents....

#17 Xlot

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:31 PM

Twice he mentioned a Buffalo company helping with technology. Why wouldn't he take the oppertunity to plug the company supporting his efforts? Way to build value....


Moog perhaps?

#18 ~Stingray~

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:50 PM

^ Moog rings a bell, can't remember why?

TE appears to be on a hard drive mission. He's doing something like 30 AC presentations to 25 YC's in the next 30 days - amazing.

Seattle was on the agenda I saw too, may have to try hit him up for a guest pass.

#19 SW Sailor

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:16 AM



question : is TE's mumbo jumbo about Buffalo being one of the technological centers of sailing just that, mumbo jumbo, or is there some truth in it ?


Mumbo jumbo.

Not much if any industry infrastructure there.

BYC is a well established club but few if any competitive campaigns in the area came from BYC (not to be confused with Bayview YC in Detroit) from what I recall. Highlight of the season was the start of the Lake Erie race, which used to run from Buffalo NY to North Cape YC (Toledo Ohio).




You are correct that there isn't any obvious marine industry technology in Buffalo, but that isn't what Ehman was talking about.

In terms of competitive campaigns from Buffalo YC, two come to mind - Al Bernel's IOR 27.5 rating one tonner Abino Robin, which was a Hood designed centerboarded was a damn competitive boat in the mid-70s both on the SORC, and Bernie Blums Farr 36 Hot Tub was very competitive in the mid-80s, winning at least one race I can think of in the SORC, and doing well overall. Lately, Ted Johnson's JV 43 Damn Yankee, which is the old Admiral's Cupper Blue Yankee does well where ever it goes, and Kevin Gregory's Beneteau 44.7 Odyssey is very well sailed, though now basically in cruise mode in St. Thomas. Some pretty damn good 36.7 sailors too.


Four or so and some 36.7 sailors over 35+ years qualifies as "few".

The vast majority of competitive campaigns and sailors in that area came from the Cleveland area.

From MHYC; Bandit II, a T41 owned by Andy Kennedy placed 2nd in the 73 SORC, several of C Britton's (founder of Tartan Marine) boats did consistently well, including the SORC - the T41, the T44, the T37 Tenba, several T10 champions including Ted Pinkerton, and Dick Newpher's Redline 41 Cheetah II that probably won more silver on the lake than any other boat for several years.

From EYC; Kahali, a McCurdy and Rhodes 62', probably one of the most beautiful boats in the area owned by Frank Zurn. More a luxury cruiser than a racer, but a gem.

From CYC; Bill Buckles was a world class Lightening sailor for years, Tommy Thomas (sailmaker) lead the star fleets in the area and was competitive in the Star NA's for years, and the 1969 US contender for the Canada's Cup, Niagara, was also run out of CYC. Jack Wannamacher also cleaned up for years with his 1/4 tonner Jack of Hearts. CYC also has one of the largest "R" class fleets in the US if not the world.

Further West you had the boats from North Cape YC - Jim Davis with Orange Crate, a 30 year old design that is still winning today, a strong fleet of Dragon sailors in the day, and several winning designs like the Heritage 1 tonner Dandilion that won several ILYA regattas, some of the crew went on to race Niagara in the Canada's Cup who went on to be defeated by Manitou.

If you sought competition in that area, it wasn't out of BYC although I'm sure they had some good sailors.

Ehman claims to have known Newpher (RIP), so he can confirm this. I sailed with him and his son for years.

#20 ~Stingray~

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:34 AM

^ may be true but if BYC incited him to talk there, where's the 'crime' ?

#21 SW Sailor

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:45 AM

Why do you say "may be true" , and "where's the crime ?"

Why are you so defensive ?

I'm simply stating facts as I raced extensively all over this area for 17 years. Just calling 'em like I see 'em.

I don't care what YC's he goes to, just stating the facts.

If he wants to hit the key clubs in the area he should target MHYC, Edgewater YC, CYC, NCYC, Bayview YC, then on to Chicago YC, etc.

#22 ro!

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:53 AM

^ Moog rings a bell, can't remember why?

TE appears to be on a hard drive mission. He's doing something like 30 AC presentations to 25 YC's in the next 30 days - amazing.

Seattle was on the agenda I saw too, may have to try hit him up for a guest pass.


The snake oil salesman is balls out showing lazza how important he is to the team...
He can also deliver your new Team USA team gear...it's a win/win event for both of you...

#23 SW Sailor

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:01 AM

Their is certainly no problem with a grass roots effort - the Cup has been gone for 15 years.

But aside from politics, why should he personally shit on Cup Chat in the SF Bay area when fans clamor for the event and it's easiest to draw tourists ?

I hope a lot of sailors show up from Buffalo for the event - he has 7M in the local Bay area that are being dissed.

Ever heard the audio tape "Acres of Diamonds" ?

TE needs a copy.

#24 PeterHuston

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:58 AM

Why do you say "may be true" , and "where's the crime ?"

Why are you so defensive ?

I'm simply stating facts as I raced extensively all over this area for 17 years. Just calling 'em like I see 'em.

I don't care what YC's he goes to, just stating the facts.

If he wants to hit the key clubs in the area he should target MHYC, Edgewater YC, CYC, NCYC, Bayview YC, then on to Chicago YC, etc.


There is no doubt that all the clubs you mentioned had, or still have, very good sailors. I stuck to naming big boats from one club. If you want to start talking Bill Buckles and Lightnings, well, Bill is a nice guy and was a decent Lightning sailor, but nobody of that era could hold a candle to Tom Allen of the Buffalo Canoe Club. His wife Anne was in the audience Tuesday night, as was his son, who has also won an NA's. And if you want to get into other Lightning sailors, there is David Starck and his wife Jody Swanson Starck, who has won a couple of Rolex Yachswomen of the Year awards. Jody won an NA's with Skip Dieball from NCYC and her brother in law Tommy Starck as crew, so both ends of the lake cross pollinate from time to time. I know David has been 2nd in the Worlds three times. Jack Mathias sailed in the Olympics in '76 with Norm Freeman in an FD. The Allen's, Starck's and Mathias have a nice collection of Pan Am Medals between them too.

You named clubs from a region that if we were talking about the same distance from Buffalo would cover Erie - and Kahili that you mentioned actually was bought by Freddy Obersheimer of the Buffalo YC and renamed Tahiti. In fact, a boat load of J35 sailors from Erie, PA drove up to Buffalo for the Cupdate.

Then there is Youngstown YC, Niagara on the Lake YC, Rochester YC and all the great sailors they have there. Arguably you could include Hamilton and Toronto in the Buffalo region, different lakes, but really no further than Mentor to North Cape in terms of drive time.

So, yeah, there weren't as many high profile campaigns out of the Buffalo YC as maybe like Bayview and certainly not Chicago, there are plenty of very good sailors in all of the Great Lakes. But Buffalo is hardly a backwater. If you want to talk about competition, I'd invite to come sail in a Lightning in the Lake Erie districts at the end of June off of Point Abino.

All the clubs you mention would be excellent venues for a Cupdate. You are mentioning clubs at the western end of Lake Erie. The markets of eastern Lake Erie/western Lake Ontario and western Lake Erie are very similar, only separated because of geography.

Ehman did two shows at Bayview last night actually, one for juniors in the afternoon, and one for adults in the evening. Buffalo was oversold at 144+, room was jammed, and had people from Erie, PA, Youngstown, and even a couple of Lightning sailors from Central NY, and probably other places too.



#25 SW Sailor

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:33 AM


Why do you say "may be true" , and "where's the crime ?"

Why are you so defensive ?

I'm simply stating facts as I raced extensively all over this area for 17 years. Just calling 'em like I see 'em.

I don't care what YC's he goes to, just stating the facts.

If he wants to hit the key clubs in the area he should target MHYC, Edgewater YC, CYC, NCYC, Bayview YC, then on to Chicago YC, etc.


There is no doubt that all the clubs you mentioned had, or still have, very good sailors. I stuck to naming big boats from one club. If you want to start talking Bill Buckles and Lightnings, well, Bill is a nice guy and was a decent Lightning sailor, but nobody of that era could hold a candle to Tom Allen of the Buffalo Canoe Club. His wife Anne was in the audience Tuesday night, as was his son, who has also won an NA's. And if you want to get into other Lightning sailors, there is David Starck and his wife Jody Swanson Starck, who has won a couple of Rolex Yachswomen of the Year awards. Jody won an NA's with Skip Dieball from NCYC and her brother in law Tommy Starck as crew, so both ends of the lake cross pollinate from time to time. I know David has been 2nd in the Worlds three times. Jack Mathias sailed in the Olympics in '76 with Norm Freeman in an FD. The Allen's, Starck's and Mathias have a nice collection of Pan Am Medals between them too.

You named clubs from a region that if we were talking about the same distance from Buffalo would cover Erie - and Kahili that you mentioned actually was bought by Freddy Obersheimer of the Buffalo YC and renamed Tahiti. In fact, a boat load of J35 sailors from Erie, PA drove up to Buffalo for the Cupdate.

Then there is Youngstown YC, Niagara on the Lake YC, Rochester YC and all the great sailors they have there. Arguably you could include Hamilton and Toronto in the Buffalo region, different lakes, but really no further than Mentor to North Cape in terms of drive time.

So, yeah, there weren't as many high profile campaigns out of the Buffalo YC as maybe like Bayview and certainly not Chicago, there are plenty of very good sailors in all of the Great Lakes. But Buffalo is hardly a backwater. If you want to talk about competition, I'd invite to come sail in a Lightning in the Lake Erie districts at the end of June off of Point Abino.

All the clubs you mention would be excellent venues for a Cupdate. You are mentioning clubs at the western end of Lake Erie. The markets of eastern Lake Erie/western Lake Ontario and western Lake Erie are very similar, only separated because of geography.

Ehman did two shows at Bayview last night actually, one for juniors in the afternoon, and one for adults in the evening. Buffalo was oversold at 144+, room was jammed, and had people from Erie, PA, Youngstown, and even a couple of Lightning sailors from Central NY, and probably other places too.



It appears you are just as defensive as Stingray.

So be it - you were the one that mentioned BYC, not me. Local clubs in LE were the focus of my post, and all are not western LE, except for NCYC. Go look it up.

You can stretch it to Lake Ontario, Lake Huron, Lake Michigan, Lake Superior, Pymatuming, Youngstown or any other inland lake for all I care.

And just to clarify - the comment was actually about maritime infrastructure.

The Cleveland area has Tartan Marine, which has now purchased C&C, Douglas and McCloud, who developed the Thistle, Flying Scot and Highlander, and several sail lofts.

Buffalo has about zero infrastructure, not even one sail loft that I'm aware of.

Still not sure why you're so defensive, but put it in perspective - they sail 5 maybe 6 months out of the year, the rest of the time the water is frozen over for the winter and boats are in storage, so these people are starved at this point in the year and get little exposure to the AC. I lived this for many years and speak from experience.

How many of these people will travel to SF for the event, vs local fans that could be cultivated ? The population here is over 7M people - maybe he's cultivating the TV audience at the expense of the local fans, but the local fans have embraced Cup Chat which TE has shit on for totally political reasons.

"Acres of Diamonds" my friend. Find it and listen to it, and pass it on to your buddy when you do. It may not generate FF miles but it will develop fans from a 7M person population in our own back yard.

#26 Xlot

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:56 AM

^ Moog rings a bell, can't remember why?


Hydraulic components. Mentioned in connection with Artemis' 38 cylinders.

#27 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:47 AM

Seems that Ehman began to understand what we have been saying here before. The US is the country where the AC is the least followed.
30 conferences x 100 = 3 000 participants x nb of persons they speak to.

As for our usual Excited Troll, what difference would have made one cup chat ?

#28 PeterHuston

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:08 PM



Why do you say "may be true" , and "where's the crime ?"

Why are you so defensive ?

I'm simply stating facts as I raced extensively all over this area for 17 years. Just calling 'em like I see 'em.

I don't care what YC's he goes to, just stating the facts.

If he wants to hit the key clubs in the area he should target MHYC, Edgewater YC, CYC, NCYC, Bayview YC, then on to Chicago YC, etc.


There is no doubt that all the clubs you mentioned had, or still have, very good sailors. I stuck to naming big boats from one club. If you want to start talking Bill Buckles and Lightnings, well, Bill is a nice guy and was a decent Lightning sailor, but nobody of that era could hold a candle to Tom Allen of the Buffalo Canoe Club. His wife Anne was in the audience Tuesday night, as was his son, who has also won an NA's. And if you want to get into other Lightning sailors, there is David Starck and his wife Jody Swanson Starck, who has won a couple of Rolex Yachswomen of the Year awards. Jody won an NA's with Skip Dieball from NCYC and her brother in law Tommy Starck as crew, so both ends of the lake cross pollinate from time to time. I know David has been 2nd in the Worlds three times. Jack Mathias sailed in the Olympics in '76 with Norm Freeman in an FD. The Allen's, Starck's and Mathias have a nice collection of Pan Am Medals between them too.

You named clubs from a region that if we were talking about the same distance from Buffalo would cover Erie - and Kahili that you mentioned actually was bought by Freddy Obersheimer of the Buffalo YC and renamed Tahiti. In fact, a boat load of J35 sailors from Erie, PA drove up to Buffalo for the Cupdate.

Then there is Youngstown YC, Niagara on the Lake YC, Rochester YC and all the great sailors they have there. Arguably you could include Hamilton and Toronto in the Buffalo region, different lakes, but really no further than Mentor to North Cape in terms of drive time.

So, yeah, there weren't as many high profile campaigns out of the Buffalo YC as maybe like Bayview and certainly not Chicago, there are plenty of very good sailors in all of the Great Lakes. But Buffalo is hardly a backwater. If you want to talk about competition, I'd invite to come sail in a Lightning in the Lake Erie districts at the end of June off of Point Abino.

All the clubs you mention would be excellent venues for a Cupdate. You are mentioning clubs at the western end of Lake Erie. The markets of eastern Lake Erie/western Lake Ontario and western Lake Erie are very similar, only separated because of geography.

Ehman did two shows at Bayview last night actually, one for juniors in the afternoon, and one for adults in the evening. Buffalo was oversold at 144+, room was jammed, and had people from Erie, PA, Youngstown, and even a couple of Lightning sailors from Central NY, and probably other places too.



It appears you are just as defensive as Stingray.

So be it - you were the one that mentioned BYC, not me. Local clubs in LE were the focus of my post, and all are not western LE, except for NCYC. Go look it up.

You can stretch it to Lake Ontario, Lake Huron, Lake Michigan, Lake Superior, Pymatuming, Youngstown or any other inland lake for all I care.

And just to clarify - the comment was actually about maritime infrastructure.

The Cleveland area has Tartan Marine, which has now purchased C&C, Douglas and McCloud, who developed the Thistle, Flying Scot and Highlander, and several sail lofts.

Buffalo has about zero infrastructure, not even one sail loft that I'm aware of.

Still not sure why you're so defensive, but put it in perspective - they sail 5 maybe 6 months out of the year, the rest of the time the water is frozen over for the winter and boats are in storage, so these people are starved at this point in the year and get little exposure to the AC. I lived this for many years and speak from experience.

How many of these people will travel to SF for the event, vs local fans that could be cultivated ? The population here is over 7M people - maybe he's cultivating the TV audience at the expense of the local fans, but the local fans have embraced Cup Chat which TE has shit on for totally political reasons.

"Acres of Diamonds" my friend. Find it and listen to it, and pass it on to your buddy when you do. It may not generate FF miles but it will develop fans from a 7M person population in our own back yard.


Not defensive, just setting the record straight.

There is an Ullman service loft in Buffalo, and Haarstick, who pretty much invented laser cutting for sails is in Rochester. Allen Boat Company is in Buffalo, builds Lightning, Highlanders and a couple of other classes. Obviously, none of that matters to Oracle Racing. Again, just setting the record straight.

You want to use any chance you get to stick it to Ehman for what you perceive to be his political agenda to stop the CupChat. Here's an idea, go talk to the GGYC Commodore and figure out how to repay the $20k that the first two CupChat's costs, then figure out how to make the next one pay for itself. Or, if you want to have your own CupChat somewhere else, just go do it. Just don't use anything that touches on ACPI licensed content to promote the event.

It's really not an either/or issue in terms of promoting to the rest of the country/world and the Bay Area, or live spectators v TV. There needs to be a healthy mix of all. And to some extent you are correct, alot of the country puts their boats away for the winter, and so the interest level in sailing is high in the early spring. Having more or less split my time almost my whole life between the Great Lakes and Socal I fully understand the difference, and while there isn't snow in Socal in the winter, the sailing pretty much sucks. There's either no wind, or it is a frontal storm (or Santa Ana conditions). Daylight is short, water is colder. People do other seasonal things like skiing.

Truth of the matter is there IS a need to build the TV audience and it has to be a primary focus because Larry has made his biggest bet on that with all the investment in Liveline, and in the US, buying the time on NBC. What was interesting about the crowd at the Buffalo event is that I had never seen at least half of the crowd before, and neither had the event organizers. This event attracted club members who rarely come to the club, which is a very good thing on alot of fronts. What was also interesting was the reaction from the crowd to the opening video, which uses the Coutts crash as the crescendo. When that crash was shown, you could hear an audible gasp by the crowd (and then consider there was a professional level sound system in the clubhouse with large JBL studio monitor speakers really pumping out the sound), which told me many had never seen this footage. Obviously, there needs to be alot more done on all fronts to spread the word to get people to pay attention to and understand what is happening with AC 34, and then either attend or somehow tune in to the event.

You are also one of the prime people who when many, especially including me, would rail against the leadership of ACEA, you would say "give it time". Well, obviously, Worth and Thompson and the vast majority of ACEA staff who had the responsibility of putting together the message and its infrastructure distribution format in place abjectly failed, and they are gone. Worse than the wasted money, is the wasted time. So now the question is how to regroup and help build the audience in every respect.

If you want a Cupchat to happen, my suggestion would be to figure out how to do it either within the guidelines of ACPI in concert with GGYC, or do your own thing while respecting the limits of ACPI and the way the leadership of GGYC, starting with the Commodore, would hope that other members of GGYC would act/talk outside of the confines of the GGYC/AC 34 structure. It's a free country, and you can say whatever you want, but pissing all over the Vice Commodore of the club that holds the Cup while also wanting something from them is generally not the best way to get the result you want.

I'd guess with the exception of PJFranks and MSP, almost everyone in his forum wants to see this be a successful Cup, in terms of close competition, and a broad audience. We will all differ in how we would achieve that result tactically, but generally we agree we want a big audience and great racing. If you are passionate about Cupchat, and did not have success in making it happen a couple of months ago, just back up and try a different, more thoughtful approach to the equation.

#29 SW Sailor

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:43 PM

So what exactly was gained by shutting down the event and threatening EYC with lawsuits ? A nice dose of ill will comes to mind.

The event would not have cost GGYC a cent and it was sold out within a week.

As I recall you were the one that suggested the AC involve more personalities in marketing the event, which is exactly what Cup Chat was doing.

Given the circumstances I'd think they would welcome a successful event that the fans embraced.

"Perhaps, if the ‘cup’ spent less time pitching their techno-wizardry and more time pitching their sailors, the sponsors might be more inclined to part with cold hard cash. After all, you can’t put ‘Liveline’ on a cereal packet."


Amercia’s Cup Emmy Nomination A Good Start.


#30 ~Stingray~

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:00 PM

Seems that Ehman began to understand what we have been saying here before. The US is the country where the AC is the least followed.
30 conferences x 100 = 3 000 participants x nb of persons they speak to.

As for our usual Excited Troll, what difference would have made one cup chat ?


I emailed TE and he wrote this back.

--

"LOL, some of the AC forum folks bitch if we don't promote enough at the local level, then they complain when we do. Point is that I go to Clubs where and when invited — we don't "target" clubs and ask to be invited. And most everywhere we go it is at no cost to the Clubs; indeed they are encouraged to charge a fee with the proceeds going to support their junior programs. We help them raise money at the same time updating, and hopefully re-engaging them about the Cup.

CupChat was a private, for-profit operation operating without authorization from ACEA, GGYC or ACPI, posing as a GGYC operation.


There has been and will be lots more proper grass-roots promo at the YCs and elsewhere. Already this year there have been 18 Cupdates, 8 in the Bay Area. And another 8 shows in the Midwest and Northeast over the last ten days alone (in seven different cities), and the weekend after Naples there will fully five shows over two days in the Charleston area, and then back out to SFO for three in the Bay Area the following week. A total of 70 have already been scheduled through 2012, with more being added each day. Any Club that is interested in hosting one only has to ask — vicecommodore@ggyc.com."



--

#31 ~Stingray~

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:14 PM

^ just realized, there was also this attachment included

Posted Image

#32 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:18 PM


Seems that Ehman began to understand what we have been saying here before. The US is the country where the AC is the least followed.
30 conferences x 100 = 3 000 participants x nb of persons they speak to.

As for our usual Excited Troll, what difference would have made one cup chat ?


I emailed TE and he wrote this back.

--

"LOL, some of the AC forum folks bitch if we don't promote enough at the local level, then they complain when we do. Point is that I go to Clubs where and when invited — we don't "target" clubs and ask to be invited. And most everywhere we go it is at no cost to the Clubs; indeed they are encouraged to charge a fee with the proceeds going to support their junior programs. We help them raise money at the same time updating, and hopefully re-engaging them about the Cup.

CupChat was a private, for-profit operation operating without authorization from ACEA, GGYC or ACPI, posing as a GGYC operation.


There has been and will be lots more proper grass-roots promo at the YCs and elsewhere. Already this year there have been 18 Cupdates, 8 in the Bay Area. And another 8 shows in the Midwest and Northeast over the last ten days alone (in seven different cities), and the weekend after Naples there will fully five shows over two days in the Charleston area, and then back out to SFO for three in the Bay Area the following week. A total of 70 have already been scheduled through 2012, with more being added each day. Any Club that is interested in hosting one only has to ask — vicecommodore@ggyc.com."



--


^^
Where did you see I criticized TE here ? on the contrary, I made very often the case that the US is sadly the country where the cup is the less known, that they need a base support for TV and liveline and that the primary focus should have been there before.
Indeed I was making the count that, with an average (just a guess) of 100 spectators x 30 he could touch 3000 persons who would, in turn talk to more.

Your answer targets indirectly our Excited Sailor who squeaks stridently for "his" cupchat cancelled in the Bay. What a troll, I miss the time he was you and Tom's buddy ;)

My perception is that Tom and Russell left their office to work in the field to find audience, TV deals and sponsor, it is not a critic, just an observation and I know this kind of work is not an easy one.
By experience, I also know that when that happens in company, it's a sign that the pressure is coming from the top very strongly. But it goes into the right direction, tell him that. :)

#33 Te Kooti

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:38 PM

I have not kept up with this clash between "official" and "unofficial" Cup Chats.

However, here is my 2 cents worth.

I went to Ehman's show at the Anacortes YC.

It was immensely enjoyable.

He is part-raconteur, a master of the rules, funny, and pefectly at ease in front of an audience. He is also very good with (and respectful of) kids.

However, by now he must be getting close to the point where he starts writing his history of the AC.

He has been at the centre of most (post 1980) big AC stories (eg. the Mike Fay rogue challenge) and we need to see them in writing.

I will be wanting a signed copy of the book.


#34 ~Stingray~

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 06:26 PM

TC, wasn't aimed at you, more agreeing.

#35 realsailor

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:41 AM

1333773184[/url]' post='3662108']

1333771128[/url]' post='3662072']

1333766746[/url]' post='3661968']
Why do you say "may be true" , and "where's the crime ?"

Why are you so defensive ?

I'm simply stating facts as I raced extensively all over this area for 17 years. Just calling 'em like I see 'em.

I don't care what YC's he goes to, just stating the facts.

If he wants to hit the key clubs in the area he should target MHYC, Edgewater YC, CYC, NCYC, Bayview YC, then on to Chicago YC, etc.


There is no doubt that all the clubs you mentioned had, or still have, very good sailors. I stuck to naming big boats from one club. If you want to start talking Bill Buckles and Lightnings, well, Bill is a nice guy and was a decent Lightning sailor, but nobody of that era could hold a candle to Tom Allen of the Buffalo Canoe Club. His wife Anne was in the audience Tuesday night, as was his son, who has also won an NA's. And if you want to get into other Lightning sailors, there is David Starck and his wife Jody Swanson Starck, who has won a couple of Rolex Yachswomen of the Year awards. Jody won an NA's with Skip Dieball from NCYC and her brother in law Tommy Starck as crew, so both ends of the lake cross pollinate from time to time. I know David has been 2nd in the Worlds three times. Jack Mathias sailed in the Olympics in '76 with Norm Freeman in an FD. The Allen's, Starck's and Mathias have a nice collection of Pan Am Medals between them too.

You named clubs from a region that if we were talking about the same distance from Buffalo would cover Erie - and Kahili that you mentioned actually was bought by Freddy Obersheimer of the Buffalo YC and renamed Tahiti. In fact, a boat load of J35 sailors from Erie, PA drove up to Buffalo for the Cupdate.

Then there is Youngstown YC, Niagara on the Lake YC, Rochester YC and all the great sailors they have there. Arguably you could include Hamilton and Toronto in the Buffalo region, different lakes, but really no further than Mentor to North Cape in terms of drive time.

So, yeah, there weren't as many high profile campaigns out of the Buffalo YC as maybe like Bayview and certainly not Chicago, there are plenty of very good sailors in all of the Great Lakes. But Buffalo is hardly a backwater. If you want to talk about competition, I'd invite to come sail in a Lightning in the Lake Erie districts at the end of June off of Point Abino.

All the clubs you mention would be excellent venues for a Cupdate. You are mentioning clubs at the western end of Lake Erie. The markets of eastern Lake Erie/western Lake Ontario and western Lake Erie are very similar, only separated because of geography.

Ehman did two shows at Bayview last night actually, one for juniors in the afternoon, and one for adults in the evening. Buffalo was oversold at 144+, room was jammed, and had people from Erie, PA, Youngstown, and even a couple of Lightning sailors from Central NY, and probably other places too.



It appears you are just as defensive as Stingray.

So be it - you were the one that mentioned BYC, not me. Local clubs in LE were the focus of my post, and all are not western LE, except for NCYC. Go look it up.

You can stretch it to Lake Ontario, Lake Huron, Lake Michigan, Lake Superior, Pymatuming, Youngstown or any other inland lake for all I care.

And just to clarify - the comment was actually about maritime infrastructure.

The Cleveland area has Tartan Marine, which has now purchased C&C, Douglas and McCloud, who developed the Thistle, Flying Scot and Highlander, and several sail lofts.

Buffalo has about zero infrastructure, not even one sail loft that I'm aware of.

Still not sure why you're so defensive, but put it in perspective - they sail 5 maybe 6 months out of the year, the rest of the time the water is frozen over for the winter and boats are in storage, so these people are starved at this point in the year and get little exposure to the AC. I lived this for many years and speak from experience.

How many of these people will travel to SF for the event, vs local fans that could be cultivated ? The population here is over 7M people - maybe he's cultivating the TV audience at the expense of the local fans, but the local fans have embraced Cup Chat which TE has shit on for totally political reasons.

"Acres of Diamonds" my friend. Find it and listen to it, and pass it on to your buddy when you do. It may not generate FF miles but it will develop fans from a 7M person population in our own back yard.


I now have heard it all. Cup Talk on tour in the "rust belt"! I hope TE crossed the border to visit the Royal Canadian YC. At least their members are well-heeled enough to travel to SF for the AC. The fan base here has to be "cultivated". And, nothing against TE but I think the fans here are pretty much over the AC wikipedia presentation. Could it be that is why the CupChat at the EYC sold out? The ACPI should be ashamed of themselves for that debacle.

#36 ~Stingray~

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:44 AM

at Sail World: America's Cup to visit Charleston

...
The America's Cup is making its first-ever visit to Charleston by special arrangement between the organizers of Sperry Top-Sider Charleston Race Week and the GGYC. Tom Ehman, GGYC Vice Commodore and 32-year America's Cup veteran, will be on hand at the Charleston Harbor Resort & Marina in Mt. Pleasant (the headquarters of Sperry Top-Sider Charleston Race Week) to offer a multi-media presentation about the Cup and the excitement of the events leading up to that regatta, in September 2013.

Viewing of the America's Cup is free and open to the public, as is Mr. Ehman's presentation, which will take place at 1:00 p.m. for approximately one hour. Families with children are encouraged to attend.

For additional information about Sperry Top-Sider Charleston Race Week, go to www.charlestonraceweek.com

--
at http://www.charlestonraceweek.com/

The America’s Cup is coming to Charleston! On Saturday, April 21, the 161-year-old trophy representing the apex of our sport will be on display at the regatta village. In addition, Tom Ehman of the Golden Gate Yacht Club will be on hand to offer his Cupdate, a multimedia presentation about the excitement of America’s Cup competition (at 1:00 p.m and again at 6:30 p.m.). Don’t miss it.


#37 ~Stingray~

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:49 AM

And speaking of TE, noticed that he's paying good attention to his FB site http://www.facebook.com/tom.ehman

Not sure if this image link, apparently from his home near Valencia, will display without being logged into FB but here's a try

"The view from poolside at home today in Puzol outside Valencia."

Posted Image

#38 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:55 AM

^^
We share the same link (FB page) :).

#39 PeterHuston

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:07 AM




Why do you say "may be true" , and "where's the crime ?"

Why are you so defensive ?

I'm simply stating facts as I raced extensively all over this area for 17 years. Just calling 'em like I see 'em.

I don't care what YC's he goes to, just stating the facts.

If he wants to hit the key clubs in the area he should target MHYC, Edgewater YC, CYC, NCYC, Bayview YC, then on to Chicago YC, etc.


There is no doubt that all the clubs you mentioned had, or still have, very good sailors. I stuck to naming big boats from one club. If you want to start talking Bill Buckles and Lightnings, well, Bill is a nice guy and was a decent Lightning sailor, but nobody of that era could hold a candle to Tom Allen of the Buffalo Canoe Club. His wife Anne was in the audience Tuesday night, as was his son, who has also won an NA's. And if you want to get into other Lightning sailors, there is David Starck and his wife Jody Swanson Starck, who has won a couple of Rolex Yachswomen of the Year awards. Jody won an NA's with Skip Dieball from NCYC and her brother in law Tommy Starck as crew, so both ends of the lake cross pollinate from time to time. I know David has been 2nd in the Worlds three times. Jack Mathias sailed in the Olympics in '76 with Norm Freeman in an FD. The Allen's, Starck's and Mathias have a nice collection of Pan Am Medals between them too.

You named clubs from a region that if we were talking about the same distance from Buffalo would cover Erie - and Kahili that you mentioned actually was bought by Freddy Obersheimer of the Buffalo YC and renamed Tahiti. In fact, a boat load of J35 sailors from Erie, PA drove up to Buffalo for the Cupdate.

Then there is Youngstown YC, Niagara on the Lake YC, Rochester YC and all the great sailors they have there. Arguably you could include Hamilton and Toronto in the Buffalo region, different lakes, but really no further than Mentor to North Cape in terms of drive time.

So, yeah, there weren't as many high profile campaigns out of the Buffalo YC as maybe like Bayview and certainly not Chicago, there are plenty of very good sailors in all of the Great Lakes. But Buffalo is hardly a backwater. If you want to talk about competition, I'd invite to come sail in a Lightning in the Lake Erie districts at the end of June off of Point Abino.

All the clubs you mention would be excellent venues for a Cupdate. You are mentioning clubs at the western end of Lake Erie. The markets of eastern Lake Erie/western Lake Ontario and western Lake Erie are very similar, only separated because of geography.

Ehman did two shows at Bayview last night actually, one for juniors in the afternoon, and one for adults in the evening. Buffalo was oversold at 144+, room was jammed, and had people from Erie, PA, Youngstown, and even a couple of Lightning sailors from Central NY, and probably other places too.



It appears you are just as defensive as Stingray.

So be it - you were the one that mentioned BYC, not me. Local clubs in LE were the focus of my post, and all are not western LE, except for NCYC. Go look it up.

You can stretch it to Lake Ontario, Lake Huron, Lake Michigan, Lake Superior, Pymatuming, Youngstown or any other inland lake for all I care.

And just to clarify - the comment was actually about maritime infrastructure.

The Cleveland area has Tartan Marine, which has now purchased C&C, Douglas and McCloud, who developed the Thistle, Flying Scot and Highlander, and several sail lofts.

Buffalo has about zero infrastructure, not even one sail loft that I'm aware of.

Still not sure why you're so defensive, but put it in perspective - they sail 5 maybe 6 months out of the year, the rest of the time the water is frozen over for the winter and boats are in storage, so these people are starved at this point in the year and get little exposure to the AC. I lived this for many years and speak from experience.

How many of these people will travel to SF for the event, vs local fans that could be cultivated ? The population here is over 7M people - maybe he's cultivating the TV audience at the expense of the local fans, but the local fans have embraced Cup Chat which TE has shit on for totally political reasons.

"Acres of Diamonds" my friend. Find it and listen to it, and pass it on to your buddy when you do. It may not generate FF miles but it will develop fans from a 7M person population in our own back yard.


I now have heard it all. Cup Talk on tour in the "rust belt"! I hope TE crossed the border to visit the Royal Canadian YC. At least their members are well-heeled enough to travel to SF for the AC. The fan base here has to be "cultivated". And, nothing against TE but I think the fans here are pretty much over the AC wikipedia presentation. Could it be that is why the CupChat at the EYC sold out? The ACPI should be ashamed of themselves for that debacle.


Actually, there was an Oracle Racing Victory Tour event at Royal Canadian YC in early November '10. An oversold event, with more than 400 people attending.

As far as your slur about the Great Lakes area not being wealthy enough to travel to SFO for the Cup, think again. There's plenty of money around here, things are just different than they were 50 years ago with the large steel and auto parts suppliers not dominating the scene so much any more. I'm sure there will be plenty of people from the Great Lakes traveling to SFO for the Cup events, and even more watching on TV.

#40 realsailor

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:25 AM

1334711245[/url]' post='3677023']

1333960866[/url]' post='3664547']

1333773184[/url]' post='3662108']

1333771128[/url]' post='3662072']

1333766746[/url]' post='3661968']
Why do you say "may be true" , and "where's the crime ?"

Why are you so defensive ?

I'm simply stating facts as I raced extensively all over this area for 17 years. Just calling 'em like I see 'em.

I don't care what YC's he goes to, just stating the facts.

If he wants to hit the key clubs in the area he should target MHYC, Edgewater YC, CYC, NCYC, Bayview YC, then on to Chicago YC, etc.


There is no doubt that all the clubs you mentioned had, or still have, very good sailors. I stuck to naming big boats from one club. If you want to start talking Bill Buckles and Lightnings, well, Bill is a nice guy and was a decent Lightning sailor, but nobody of that era could hold a candle to Tom Allen of the Buffalo Canoe Club. His wife Anne was in the audience Tuesday night, as was his son, who has also won an NA's. And if you want to get into other Lightning sailors, there is David Starck and his wife Jody Swanson Starck, who has won a couple of Rolex Yachswomen of the Year awards. Jody won an NA's with Skip Dieball from NCYC and her brother in law Tommy Starck as crew, so both ends of the lake cross pollinate from time to time. I know David has been 2nd in the Worlds three times. Jack Mathias sailed in the Olympics in '76 with Norm Freeman in an FD. The Allen's, Starck's and Mathias have a nice collection of Pan Am Medals between them too.

You named clubs from a region that if we were talking about the same distance from Buffalo would cover Erie - and Kahili that you mentioned actually was bought by Freddy Obersheimer of the Buffalo YC and renamed Tahiti. In fact, a boat load of J35 sailors from Erie, PA drove up to Buffalo for the Cupdate.

Then there is Youngstown YC, Niagara on the Lake YC, Rochester YC and all the great sailors they have there. Arguably you could include Hamilton and Toronto in the Buffalo region, different lakes, but really no further than Mentor to North Cape in terms of drive time.

So, yeah, there weren't as many high profile campaigns out of the Buffalo YC as maybe like Bayview and certainly not Chicago, there are plenty of very good sailors in all of the Great Lakes. But Buffalo is hardly a backwater. If you want to talk about competition, I'd invite to come sail in a Lightning in the Lake Erie districts at the end of June off of Point Abino.

All the clubs you mention would be excellent venues for a Cupdate. You are mentioning clubs at the western end of Lake Erie. The markets of eastern Lake Erie/western Lake Ontario and western Lake Erie are very similar, only separated because of geography.

Ehman did two shows at Bayview last night actually, one for juniors in the afternoon, and one for adults in the evening. Buffalo was oversold at 144+, room was jammed, and had people from Erie, PA, Youngstown, and even a couple of Lightning sailors from Central NY, and probably other places too.



It appears you are just as defensive as Stingray.

So be it - you were the one that mentioned BYC, not me. Local clubs in LE were the focus of my post, and all are not western LE, except for NCYC. Go look it up.

You can stretch it to Lake Ontario, Lake Huron, Lake Michigan, Lake Superior, Pymatuming, Youngstown or any other inland lake for all I care.

And just to clarify - the comment was actually about maritime infrastructure.

The Cleveland area has Tartan Marine, which has now purchased C&C, Douglas and McCloud, who developed the Thistle, Flying Scot and Highlander, and several sail lofts.

Buffalo has about zero infrastructure, not even one sail loft that I'm aware of.

Still not sure why you're so defensive, but put it in perspective - they sail 5 maybe 6 months out of the year, the rest of the time the water is frozen over for the winter and boats are in storage, so these people are starved at this point in the year and get little exposure to the AC. I lived this for many years and speak from experience.

How many of these people will travel to SF for the event, vs local fans that could be cultivated ? The population here is over 7M people - maybe he's cultivating the TV audience at the expense of the local fans, but the local fans have embraced Cup Chat which TE has shit on for totally political reasons.

"Acres of Diamonds" my friend. Find it and listen to it, and pass it on to your buddy when you do. It may not generate FF miles but it will develop fans from a 7M person population in our own back yard.


I now have heard it all. Cup Talk on tour in the "rust belt"! I hope TE crossed the border to visit the Royal Canadian YC. At least their members are well-heeled enough to travel to SF for the AC. The fan base here has to be "cultivated". And, nothing against TE but I think the fans here are pretty much over the AC wikipedia presentation. Could it be that is why the CupChat at the EYC sold out? The ACPI should be ashamed of themselves for that debacle.


Actually, there was an Oracle Racing Victory Tour event at Royal Canadian YC in early November '10. An oversold event, with more than 400 people attending.

As far as your slur about the Great Lakes area not being wealthy enough to travel to SFO for the Cup, think again. There's plenty of money around here, things are just different than they were 50 years ago with the large steel and auto parts suppliers not dominating the scene so much any more. I'm sure there will be plenty of people from the Great Lakes traveling to SFO for the Cup events, and even more watching on TV.

AGAIN, a lot more work needs to be done right here in the Bay Area.

#41 PeterHuston

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:43 AM

AGAIN, a lot more work needs to be done right here in the Bay Area.


And on this we would agree. ACEA needs to do alot more work all over the world to build the audience. Let's hope that now there has been a change in leadership at ACEA there will be progress in this regard.

#42 ~Stingray~

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:46 AM

Nice that OR took both AC45's to Strictly Sail this past weekend, along w team members too.

edit, one link
http://blog.bloosee....ays-three-four/

#43 SW Sailor

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:10 AM


AGAIN, a lot more work needs to be done right here in the Bay Area.


And on this we would agree. ACEA needs to do alot more work all over the world to build the audience. Let's hope that now there has been a change in leadership at ACEA there will be progress in this regard.


BTW, I appreciate your suggestion to take up the CupChat concept with GGYC staff, but it's probably not much of a stretch to assume I'd have more success convincing GM management to bring back the Pontiac line for next years models, and those involved are well aware of this.

Also, for the record, both ACEA and OR supported CupChat, and their legal group also refused to support threats of a lawsuit. That should tell you where the problem lies.


So at this point it's a one man show, by design.


#44 SW Sailor

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:18 AM

Nice that OR took both AC45's to Strictly Sail this past weekend, along w team members too.

edit, one link
http://blog.bloosee....ays-three-four/


They had OR # 4 on display, and I attended the seminar on Saturday by Brad Webb and Bob Billingham. They didn't dwell on AC history and were pretty open with information which made for an interesting presentation.

It appears discussions are taking place about a possible MW ACWS event - Chicago would be my guess, but maybe it's targeted for Buffalo Posted Image.

#45 Te Kooti

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 04:39 PM


Viewing of the America's Cup is free and open to the public, as is Mr. Ehman's presentation, which will take place at 1:00 p.m. for approximately one hour. Families with children are encouraged to attend.




There are some decent things happening within the big-bad-corporate AC world.

#46 PeterHuston

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 04:54 PM


Nice that OR took both AC45's to Strictly Sail this past weekend, along w team members too.

edit, one link
http://blog.bloosee....ays-three-four/


They had OR # 4 on display, and I attended the seminar on Saturday by Brad Webb and Bob Billingham. They didn't dwell on AC history and were pretty open with information which made for an interesting presentation.

It appears discussions are taking place about a possible MW ACWS event - Chicago would be my guess, but maybe it's targeted for Buffalo Posted Image.


I can assure, if there is a midwest ACWS event being discussed, it isn't being discussed for Buffalo. There would be no appetite around Buffalo for forking over a venue fee.

Chicago would make the most sense. And if they are going to Chicago, they might was well do something in Toronto so as to capture the Canadian market. The ship has to pass within 30 miles or so of Toronto on its way to/from Chicago.

Detroit and Cleveland also make a bit of sense too, Cleveland because it could be a cool tie-in with the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame, which is located directly on the water.

#47 acintel

acintel

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:02 PM



Viewing of the America's Cup is free and open to the public, as is Mr. Ehman's presentation, which will take place at 1:00 p.m. for approximately one hour. Families with children are encouraged to attend.




There are some decent things happening within the big-bad-corporate AC world.


I'd keep my children away from Ehman!




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