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#1 AClass USA 230

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:01 PM

Hey, I know there's AC Anarchy forum but how about a little excitement over the racing yesterday in wind and a tough sea state and the really tactical stuff today with the new kids (Luna Rossa and Team Korea especially) mixing it up with the favorites!

#2 tikipete

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:23 PM

Ennuie?

#3 green boat

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:44 PM

Me personally, kinda over watching the extreme stuff, I think I have been over exposed
You only see a quick glossy overveiw with loud background music

I want to see tactics, maneuvers, learn more about the performance envelope of these cats
No, Im not asleep, just tired, or kinda over watching,
think I'll go for a sail myself now
cheers

#4 Bulbhunter

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:49 PM

Hey, I know there's AC Anarchy forum but how about a little excitement over the racing yesterday in wind and a tough sea state and the really tactical stuff today with the new kids (Luna Rossa and Team Korea especially) mixing it up with the favorites!

Says the one that provides no links. Sorry I'm working no time to watch boys play around on sailboats over in Europe.

#5 Tcatman

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:46 PM


Hey, I know there's AC Anarchy forum but how about a little excitement over the racing yesterday in wind and a tough sea state and the really tactical stuff today with the new kids (Luna Rossa and Team Korea especially) mixing it up with the favorites!

Says the one that provides no links. Sorry I'm working no time to watch boys play around on sailboats over in Europe.


POW.... the fundamental problem of the sport....

Even the people who race these kinds of boats are not FANS.

The extreme 40 series is crystal clear... they are not trying to develop fans.... they want to deliver a spectacle for their sponsors as part of the business model.

The AC MUST develop fans of the sport. This problem is age old.... when the AC was an international competition between nations..... the fan problem was solved..... you could cheer for the home team.

I think they had 2500 views going this morning (US east coast time). You can take this data and throw your hands up and say... OK... we market the spectacle in San Fran and pray.... OR... you figure out a way to start making FANS of the racing sailors and then grow outwards from there.

IMO, this FAN issue impacts Olympic Sailors, AC cup sailors and even distance race sailors... Something is fundamentally missing.

#6 tikipete

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:49 PM

I consider myself a fan, just caught up in other stuff at the moment.

#7 Ned

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:19 PM

Because it's the AC, not sailing as we know it.

#8 tikipete

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:27 PM

I think the AC people made a mistake not trying to sell fan memorabilia and paraphernalia. It doesn't seem to hurt NASCAR, NBA, NFL or any of the rest.

#9 Tcatman

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:29 PM

Because it's the AC, not sailing as we know it.

Ok... what sailing event ARE you a fan of?..... What makes you a fan of that flavor of the sport?

#10 tikipete

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:34 PM

Being included? The AC doesn't seem to care much about the unwashed.

#11 Oxygen Mask

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:36 PM

I think they had 2500 views going this morning (US east coast time). .


^THAT is 99.9% of the problem. "Views"

If NASCAR did away with TV coverage and the only access was an internet feed, it would be dead before the current season is over.

#12 Tcatman

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:25 PM


I think they had 2500 views going this morning (US east coast time). .


^THAT is 99.9% of the problem. "Views"
If NASCAR did away with TV coverage and the only access was an internet feed, it would be dead before the current season is over.

Chicken and egg problem... No Fans... no TV eyeballs.... no TV Eyeballs... no fans.

Still you miss the fundamental point... Media streams take many forms these days.. BUT you have to be a FAN to pay attention to any of them.

I am a FAN of my lousy pro basketball team....The players change but I support the team. I haven't played the sport in years....I can't say that I am a FAN of any sailing team in the Cup series... or ANY sailing team for that matter. At best I root for the people I know personally.

This is not easy.. US soccer has been trying for years to build a fan base. You have kids playing soccer/sailing (Soccer moms = Opti moms) and then a huge gap to the World Cup/America's cup.

Moreover, This game of racing... is different from a game with two teams competing and I think it's a much tougher sell.

The trick is to convert the participation into fans.

#13 Bang Zoom

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:15 PM

Boring.....Just a scaled up Bristol tuesday night but at Bristol I get to drive :)

#14 rob d

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:06 PM

I have only been slightly interested and have not bothered with the rules as they currently are, so I may be completely wrong, but: I think to have an event where there are large national flags displayed and team names in some cases are of a country, then fill the crew from wherever does not sit with me. Of the interviews with competitors that I have seen they are predominantly NZ, France, Aust, and british. Helms alone, are how many of the 9 cats have their own nationality sitting at the back? NZ and France, maybe one LR? If only the money was around to have truely national teams. It would be interesting to see, like in F1 that many are trying to compare it to, the crew list to come up with all their national flags beside them before/after a race. Moto GP does it as well. Rally has it on the window. This shows that this is truely an international event and removes the sentiment that this has anything to do with nation against nation.
Then again, without the crew lists and nationalities being shoved in my face on the screen, I could be completely wrong. I am too apathetic to waste my time searching for it.
Awesome display of skills though. Emirates NZ bear away and set was perfection in one of the fleet races. As a training video it is very worthwhile.

#15 bacho

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:16 PM

I think the AC people made a mistake not trying to sell fan memorabilia and paraphernalia. It doesn't seem to hurt NASCAR, NBA, NFL or any of the rest.


They do sell it, I got a shirt from San Diego. Major fail for not selling, or pushing it online.

#16 rob d

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:50 PM


CAROLIJN BROUWER helming an AC45- That is a solition to many issues- Bundock and Booth have had a go, give a girl a chance. she has copped a fair bit of crap from a small number of people about her involvement the olympic cat trials so she can go A.C.ing. Female helm in the A.C. could only be a good thing for the event. Atermis should contact her.


#17 the loose cannon

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:28 AM


CAROLIJN BROUWER helming an AC45- That is a solition to many issues- Bundock and Booth have had a go, give a girl a chance. she has copped a fair bit of crap from a small number of people about her involvement the olympic cat trials so she can go A.C.ing. Female helm in the A.C. could only be a good thing for the event. Atermis should contact her.

Anything would be better than watching terry get wound up and implode.

#18 tikipete

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:37 AM

Nobody is going to say it? Good, I won't either.

#19 Tcatman

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:11 AM

Boring.....Just a scaled up Bristol tuesday night but at Bristol I get to drive :)



I will Put you down as ... Not a fan!

For the record.... are you a fan of any kind of racing?

#20 dogwatch

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:33 AM

The trick is to convert the participation into fans.


There are nothing like enough sailing participants to make a fan base to support what is being spent on ACWS and AC34. To make it financially self-sustaining, you need fans who've never stepped foot on a boat. Whether that can be done, I guess we are in the process of finding out.

There's a thread on the racing in Naples http://forums.sailin...=126500&st=1300 with however a hell of a lot less traffic than the courtroom dramas of AC33 generated.

FWIW I found the crash and burn of Wednesday quite same-y but the frantic place-changing in the drift-a-thon of Friday pretty interesting. I guess I like racing more than I like "extreme".

#21 Tcatman

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:57 PM

you need fans who've never stepped foot on a boat.

So... do you think what will create FANS from non sailors will be different from what's needed to create FANS from Racing Sailors?

If you think they are identical.... Then it's not working for the racing sailors right now.... much less the non sailors!

#22 Bang Zoom

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:56 PM


Boring.....Just a scaled up Bristol tuesday night but at Bristol I get to drive :)



I will Put you down as ... Not a fan!

For the record.... are you a fan of any kind of racing?


Am I a fanatic? Not sure I am the right person to answer that question.

I follow F1 closely, where there is an interesting technical aspect and the Volvo race has been great fun to follow.

But I am not the target base for AC.

#23 dogwatch

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:43 PM

you need fans who've never stepped foot on a boat.

So... do you think what will create FANS from non sailors will be different from what's needed to create FANS from Racing Sailors?

If you think they are identical.... Then it's not working for the racing sailors right now.... much less the non sailors!


I don't think anybody believes they are identical. At Plymouth and I think SD, the ACEA produced two separate commentaries, one aimed at sailors with some understanding of tactics etc, the other at non-sailors. Presumably to save money, that has now been discontinued and the commentary of full racing coverage seems mostly aimed at sailors, while the weekly "Americas Cup Uncovered" programme aims firmly at the general public with only abbreviated racing coverage.

The extent to which the ACWS is generating interest from the general public at the venues is a matter of some debate. I was at Plymouth and over the course of the week there's no doubt there were collectively some tens of thousand of spectators. However I think the number claimed by ACEA and others were significantly exaggerated. At San Diego very little public interest seemed to exist. In Naples accounts vary and some camera shots seem to show large crowds, others not. As for YouTube coverage, a "crashes" compilation has achieved some hundreds of thousands of hits but live viewers for the racing coverage at Naples has been around 10,000, which isn't really very impressive.

Regarding whether ACWS is creating fans from racing sailors , opinions are violently polarised. For what is it worth and as a monohull sailor (sorry), it has been better than I expected it to be but not revelatory. There are those who argue that when we seen the AC72s racing in summer 2013 we shall all be converts. I don't know. The limited numbers of teams who can raise the money for the larger boats has been for me both disappointing and entirely predictable. Nevertheless I am watching AC34 unfold with interest. Call me a fan if you like but if I am a fan I'm also a sceptic as to whether we will see the like of AC34 a second time.

All these questions are debated at length at SAAC if you are interested and if you can stand it there. It has perhaps become more bearable recently.

#24 Oxygen Mask

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:56 PM

At Plymouth and I think SD, the ACEA produced two separate commentaries, one aimed at sailors with some understanding of tactics etc, the other at non-sailors. Presumably to save money, that has now been discontinued and the commentary of full racing coverage seems mostly aimed at sailors, while the weekly "Americas Cup Uncovered" programme aims firmly at the general public with only abbreviated racing coverage. .


That was another thing that pissed me off.
Regarding Televising of the SD event-
They ran the racing coverage one time. If you missed it, too bad.
But they ran the 'promo' spots (which by the way are SO overdone artsy upscale they're hard to watch) over and over and over and over, each week a new one which was hard to distinguish from the others. I finally quit recording and watching them, as the maybe 10 mins of interesting stuff wasn't worth wading thru the other local restaurant guides.

They apparently spent a fortune on those programs, yet did not get them out where the public can see them. Brilliant. Near as I could discover, I just got lucky that my satellite provider carried Comcast Sports Cali (I'm in Oregon) - most everyone I know elsewhere got no programming.

The current event - since it's not in Cali, it's not being broadcast. I get no coverage.

#25 RogerJolly

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:17 PM

You only see a quick glossy overveiw with loud background music

I want to see tactics, maneuvers, learn more about the performance envelope of these cats


I agree and that's why it's so cool to be able to watch the entire race. And with the Virtual Eye you can focus on any area of the race you want and pick up on all the tactics.

#26 juniordave nz

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:29 PM

I like the sailing, but hate the racing format. It's just fucking stupid. They do a crap load of races that seem to count for fuck all. The racing format for the Extreme 40's is much better and simpler and they do way more races a day. I think that's one of the biggest problems (by far not the only problem) is that it's too complicated for my simple mind. And the commentators put me to sleep, this is the first yacht racing where I've turned the sound off because it's nice to watch in silence than listen to the mumblings of the commentators

#27 Tcatman

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:42 PM



Boring.....Just a scaled up Bristol tuesday night but at Bristol I get to drive :)



I will Put you down as ... Not a fan!

For the record.... are you a fan of any kind of racing?


Am I a fanatic? Not sure I am the right person to answer that question.

I follow F1 closely, where there is an interesting technical aspect and the Volvo race has been great fun to follow.

But I am not the target base for AC.


Ah.. there it is... You are a fan of the technical aspects of racing. Whereas most of the fans of F1 are probably cheering for the drivers and the brand. The target base for the AC is to reach the latter folks and get them enrolled as Fans of the sailors and their brands.

I think they have a lot of work to do on this front.

So, with respect to Bob's OP question... why are cat sailors not interested?... My answer is that we don't get information on the technical aspect of the boats heading into this race AND the tactical side is tough to follow as well in the coverage. (I haven't used the virtual eye thing yet)

#28 AClass USA 230

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:41 PM

Guys, lighten up for crying out loud! Aamzing how something we should be celebrating turns into something some of you are arguing about.

It was still awesome sailing video (even in light air) especially if you want to watch and learn something from the best sailors in the sport in action. I am inspired by the crew work these teams displayed. There's a lot to learn there if you open your eyes and ears.

#29 Tcatman

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:07 PM

Guys, lighten up for crying out loud! Aamzing how something we should be celebrating turns into something some of you are arguing about.

It was still awesome sailing video (even in light air) especially if you want to watch and learn something from the best sailors in the sport in action. I am inspired by the crew work these teams displayed. There's a lot to learn there if you open your eyes and ears.


Yes... but you asked why nobody was interested...are we asleep?

(The numerous AC threads are tough to follow but some debate over there is interesting.)

#30 green boat

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 11:14 PM

Me personally, kinda over watching the extreme stuff, I think I have been over exposed
You only see a quick glossy overveiw with loud background music

I want to see tactics, maneuvers, learn more about the performance envelope of these cats
No, Im not asleep, just tired, or kinda over watching,
think I'll go for a sail myself now
cheers


I now exercise the right to change my mind, thank you for bringing AC back to my attention.
after further investigation I have enjoyed the series at Naples and look forward to more
It might be me but, The coverage appears to have changed a bit, Strategies, Tactics and even a experienced commentator were included.
But still think there is too much of it - a bit overexposed.
And where are all the semi naked chicks that surround high level sport these days?
Another point, are the crews getting better?.... not many capsizes at Naples.

#31 Robnacra

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:47 AM

Love the racing but that last 50 point race was a fucking joke. Then the lack of coverage of the match racing and speed trials didn't help anyone become a fan if they can't even follow the shit. The commentary was poor as well. Def taken a step backwards after last yr

#32 eric e

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:56 AM

agreed on the 50 point race

the reason to have many races is so the best team overall wins

putting most of the points on 1 race just turns it back to a lottery again

you've already got an elimination match racing lottery

and a speed trial, who gets the best wind lottery

why turn to the 1 event that could be overall skill into something more dictated by chance as well?

would the volvo round the world race make the last leg have 5 times the points of all the others?

#33 Oxygen Mask

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:31 PM

would the volvo round the world race make the last leg have 5 times the points of all the others?


Perhaps they should, IF all the boats could actually make it at one time.




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