1349 replies to this topic

[Dixie]

US Sailing report

Here is the text of the preliminary report, linked above. Best of luck to those on course for the Spinnaker Cup.


US Sailing Releases Preliminary Findings in Farallones Race Tragedy
<h2 class="ipf-article-subtitle" style="font-size: 13px; color: rgb(103, 152, 198); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-top: -1.4em; font-style: italic; text-align: left; "></h2>

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact: Jake Fish
US Sailing Communications Manager
jakefish@ussailing.org
401.683.0800 x614

US Sailing Releases Preliminary Findings in Farallones Race Tragedy

PORTSMOUTH, R.I. (May 24, 2012) – A US Sailing Independent Review Panel has released a set of preliminary findings and recommendations from the research conducted on the 2012 Crewed Farallones Race that resulted in the deaths of five sailors from sailboat, Low Speed Chase, on April 14, 2012. The panel presented this information to the new San Francisco Bay Offshore Racing Council, which includes local race organizers and yacht clubs, on Tuesday, May 22. The council has developed its goals to enhance safety and communications practices for all upcoming offshore events in the Bay area.

The US Sailing preliminary recommendations are as follows:

1 - Enhanced training of sailors in seamanship and piloting, including understanding of wave development in shoaling waters and safe distance off a lee shore.
2 - Once-a-season training seminars in appropriate safety gear and mandatory skippers' meeting for offshore races.
3 - Assurance of compliance with existing Minimum Equipment Requirements, including post-race inspections.
4 - Improved race management, including accountability for boats on the course, crew members' information, compliance with Coast Guard Marine Event Permit conditions, and improved communication with sailors and Coast Guard.
5 - Consistency of protocol and requirements for all Bay Area offshore races.

Panel Chairman, Sally Honey (Palo Alto, Calif.) explains, “The US Sailing Independent Review Panel for the Low Speed Chase accident has completed a substantial amount of its fact-finding agenda, including a questionnaire to all racers in the Fully-crewed Farallones Race; personal interviews with racers, including survivors and witnesses; and plots and analysis of two dozen GPS tracks around Southeast Farallon Island.”

“We are heartened by the seriousness with which the council has set priorities and assigned tasks to meet their mandate,” continued Honey. “We believe they are off to a good start in achieving more consistency between the various organizing authorities and making offshore racing safer for all.”

"I am especially pleased with US Sailing's outreach to the boating community both by conducting interviews and by briefing the preliminary findings to the newly formed local offshore racing council," said Capt. Cynthia Stowe, Coast Guard Captain of the Port of San Francisco. "The Coast Guard appreciates the tremendous support of the offshore race organizers and sponsoring yacht clubs. It’s the coordination and support from this local community which will ensure we learn all that we can from this tragic loss.”

The members of the panel including Honey are John Craig (San Rafael, Calif.), Jim Corenman (Friday Harbor, Wash.), Bill Barton (Boston, Mass.) and Bartz Schneider (Crystal Bay, Nev.). Offshore Special Regulations Consultant on the panel is Evans Starzinger (Milford, Conn.). The Safety-at-Sea Committee Chair and panel liaison is Chuck Hawley (Santa Cruz, Calif.). Medical advisors are Dr. Michael Jacobs (Vineyard Haven, Mass.) and Dr. Kent Benedict (Aptos, Calif.). Jim Wildey (Annapolis, Md.) will advise on investigation procedures and formats.

A full report from the panel will be released by US Sailing in June.

The Coast Guard has approved the Marine Event Permit for the Spinnaker Cup offshore sailing race scheduled to begin Friday, May 25. Learn more

[Caca Cabeza]

That's the perfect solution: more rules. Maybe we should have to get a permit from the EPA too. Let's see, NEPA, CEQA, permit fees, etc., should be able to have the permit in hand in about 3 years if things go right.

[NoStrings]

That's the perfect solution: more rules. Maybe we should have to get a permit from the EPA too. Let's see, NEPA, CEQA, permit fees, etc., should be able to have the permit in hand in about 3 years if things go right.

Not more rules, just some actual enforcement of the rules that we do have. If you get called to the docks for an MEL inspection post race, be there or be square. As for the seamanship issues...a little bit of training reinforcement isn't a bad thing. I know the SSS gang is bristling, largely because they tend to be more conservative as they don't have a crew to bail them out...ask Dan Benjamin. Complacency can kill people though, we're reminded when we see the empty LSC slip.

[casc27]

Item 4 ("Improved race management, including accountability for boats on the course, crew members' information, compliance with Coast Guard Marine Event Permit conditions, and improved communication with sailors and Coast Guard")troubles me. I don't know that there was a communication or "accountability" issue in the LSC tragedy. And I'm not sure how improved communications will be effected. Aviation style headsets anyone? I do know there has been some trouble related to a late requirement for tracking transponders in the SHTP that has caused at least one racer to withdraw. (N.b., the transponders are not a USCG requirement but the USCG has apparently indicated that they will initiate a response if a racer in the SHTP is more than one hour late with a check in. You can follow this situation on the SSS board.)

The requirement for some enhanced training (item 1) seems reasonable. As do items 3 and 5. I don't like the mandatory skippers meeting in item 2. People have jobs and are not all located convenient to the skipper's meeting venue. The annual seminar part of item 2 seems useful.

So much for my two cents worth on this. My real concern is that any regulation or other changes that result from the investigations be solely focused on improving safety (which will mostly entail training and knowledge) and not on liability band-aids for organizing or responding authorities. And that the improvements not come at an absurd cost in either money or participation.

[amperrin]

That's the perfect solution: more rules. Maybe we should have to get a permit from the EPA too. Let's see, NEPA, CEQA, permit fees, etc., should be able to have the permit in hand in about 3 years if things go right.

Not more rules, just some actual enforcement of the rules that we do have. If you get called to the docks for an MEL inspection post race, be there or be square. As for the seamanship issues...a little bit of training reinforcement isn't a bad thing. I know the SSS gang is bristling, largely because they tend to be more conservative as they don't have a crew to bail them out...ask Dan Benjamin. Complacency can kill people though, we're reminded when we see the empty LSC slip.

+1
Nostrings in a little over a week you will get to listen to a Physical Oceanography professor talk about wave dynamics at SFYC and I am sure we will all learn a ton.

More education is never a bad thing

[isma]

[
Nostrings in a little over a week you will get to listen to a Physical Oceanography professor talk about wave dynamics at SFYC and I am sure we will all learn a ton.

More education is never a bad thing

Who? (seriously, that's my field and I might know)

[amperrin]

[
Nostrings in a little over a week you will get to listen to a Physical Oceanography professor talk about wave dynamics at SFYC and I am sure we will all learn a ton.

More education is never a bad thing

Who? (seriously, that's my field and I might know)

Wish I had known that was your field as you are a sailor but then again so is one of these guys.

Toby Garfield and Tim Janssen both from UCSF (Half Moon Bay and Tiburon Ronberg center)

[Foreverslow]

That's the perfect solution: more rules. Maybe we should have to get a permit from the EPA too. Let's see, NEPA, CEQA, permit fees, etc., should be able to have the permit in hand in about 3 years if things go right.

too late

we had to file with the state EPA for our races.
bitch is determining the course on our evening series as we have 20 marks based on wind direction.
I was voted down when I suggested we pull the paperwork for the 1st 2 weeks in august as we usually abandon for lack of wind...

[pogen]

Any idea about when the full report will be out? USS seems content to pass on their findings so far via press releases, should we expect a email blast from SSS or OYRA? I heard indirectly that they have lots of GPS tracks and allegedly a video from another boat of LSC rolling.

The Spin Cup had its rules changed and said there were to be random safety inspections post race. Seems like a good idea to me. Did anyone get inspected? Maybe the inspectors were too tired by the time we came in after 0400. Too bad, I could have shown them our spiffy new double-hook, glow-in-the-dark tethers and Kannad AIS/MOB gizmos. We did get some nice soup, and one of the MPYC members very kindly gave us a ride to Trader Joe's so we could re-provision for our delivery home. Thanks!

And I'm guessing that the next set of ocean race SI's will have some language about the advisability of guarding Channel 16 on VHF once away from the starting area.

[Trevor B]

Double Trouble got inspected.
It was cool that the inspector was one of the most experienced offshore racers on the west coast!

[Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit]

Item 4 ("Improved race management, including accountability for boats on the course, crew members' information, compliance with Coast Guard Marine Event Permit conditions, and improved communication with sailors and Coast Guard")troubles me. I don't know that there was a communication or "accountability" issue in the LSC tragedy. And I'm not sure how improved communications will be effected. Aviation style headsets anyone? I do know there has been some trouble related to a late requirement for tracking transponders in the SHTP that has caused at least one racer to withdraw. (N.b., the transponders are not a USCG requirement but the USCG has apparently indicated that they will initiate a response if a racer in the SHTP is more than one hour late with a check in. You can follow this situation on the SSS board.)

The requirement for some enhanced training (item 1) seems reasonable. As do items 3 and 5. I don't like the mandatory skippers meeting in item 2. People have jobs and are not all located convenient to the skipper's meeting venue. The annual seminar part of item 2 seems useful.

So much for my two cents worth on this. My real concern is that any regulation or other changes that result from the investigations be solely focused on improving safety (which will mostly entail training and knowledge) and not on liability band-aids for organizing or responding authorities. And that the improvements not come at an absurd cost in either money or participation.

Meetings get conducted every day by conference call. Shouldn't the race organizers be able to accommodate skippers with an excessive distance burden this way?

[pogen]

Meetings get conducted every day by conference call. Shouldn't the race organizers be able to accommodate skippers with an excessive distance burden this way?

Yes, my company runs webinars a couple of times a week for customer education and product promotion. These tools are cheap and readily available. There is a visual presentation over the Internet combined with a conference call for voice, and even a little 'chat' sidebar for running Q&A. We wouldn't even need video, just PowerPoint slides and voice.

I was contacted and asked to testify at the USS investigation. Since it is a 4 - 5 hour round trip for me to get to SFYC in the middle of a work day, I had to decline as I could not take a whole day off work, but I did offer to call in and do it over the phone. They never replied. Maybe the committee was not able to organize this on the fly, but our own local bodies should have the time to set this up properly.

I'd like to listen in on the wave physics presentation, how is this being promoted and presented? Could they do a simulcast? Maybe that Justin.TV thing could be of use, if Clean can get it to work, anyone can! SFYC is a really long haul for some of us even with a 1900 start time.

[K38BOB]

Any idea about when the full report will be out? USS seems content to pass on their findings so far via press releases, should we expect a email blast from SSS or OYRA? I heard indirectly that they have lots of GPS tracks and allegedly a video from another boat of LSC rolling.

The Spin Cup had its rules changed and said there were to be random safety inspections post race. Seems like a good idea to me. Did anyone get inspected? Maybe the inspectors were too tired by the time we came in after 0400. Too bad, I could have shown them our spiffy new double-hook, glow-in-the-dark tethers and Kannad AIS/MOB gizmos. We did get some nice soup, and one of the MPYC members very kindly gave us a ride to Trader Joe's so we could re-provision for our delivery home. Thanks!

And I'm guessing that the next set of ocean race SI's will have some language about the advisability of guarding Channel 16 on VHF once away from the starting area.

June- and it was mentioned that June has 30 days.

The changes are bottoms up, not tops down. Many clubs are now talking/comparing what they do to inform and identify best practices. If SI's are more similar , should be easier for the racers, RC's and even the coasties. Similar doesn't mean same as- maybe zones- tbd.

[K38BOB]

Meetings get conducted every day by conference call. Shouldn't the race organizers be able to accommodate skippers with an excessive distance burden this way?

Yes, my company runs webinars a couple of times a week for customer education and product promotion. These tools are cheap and readily available. There is a visual presentation over the Internet combined with a conference call for voice, and even a little 'chat' sidebar for running Q&A. We wouldn't even need video, just PowerPoint slides and voice.

I was contacted and asked to testify at the USS investigation. Since it is a 4 - 5 hour round trip for me to get to SFYC in the middle of a work day, I had to decline as I could not take a whole day off work, but I did offer to call in and do it over the phone. They never replied. Maybe the committee was not able to organize this on the fly, but our own local bodies should have the time to set this up properly.

I'd like to listen in on the wave physics presentation, how is this being promoted and presented? Could they do a simulcast? Maybe that Justin.TV thing could be of use, if Clean can get it to work, anyone can! SFYC is a really long haul for some of us even with a 1900 start time.

Webinars are one way. Super skippers meeting once a year are another. Possibly buddy system is another. There are 3 farallones races for instance. If venue and safety is a primary purpose for a skippers meeting- why wouldn;t attending one count for another? TBD

[One eye Jack]

Why has it not been brought up that the EPIRB wasn't even registered to this boat but another? That was one reason that there was a foul up at the start of this emergency.As for skippers meetings ..when and where are they going to be held? It's not like Santa Cruz where everybody leaves the dock in Santa Cruz, not like the bay where the boats may come from many different harbors. What have them the night before at a certain club? It's hard enough for people to show up for races, let alone a meeting .or how are they going to have a post race inspection when everybody goes to different harbors. Like any measured race..every boat has a pre race inspection and is signed off as having what is required..what good is a post race inspection? That won't save any lives as it is after..that is like having an airplane inspected after it lands and not before. Then what is going to be the required training that is recommended...how about using common sence...or has that one gone by the wayside...if it has then all of these reconditions wont work..as it takes one to be responsible. Some learn from others accidents, some learn from their own accident, and some never learn..the last two you will be up the creek or dead. Even Captains have accidents.. Look at the pilot that hit the bay bridge or the Carquinez a few years ago..neither used common sence..and had all of that traing and time in operating large ships...or the big one was the ship every so often would try to go through the wrong hole at the Old Antioch bridge..those accidents the Coast Guard didn't SHUT down shipping.This is the first time that this has been done as long as I can remember for any non government activity..why?. And isn't it Stan Honey?

[One eye Jack]

1337999238[/url]' post='3727694']

1337991870[/url]' post='3727582']

1337989092[/url]' post='3727552']
That's the perfect solution: more rules. Maybe we should have to get a permit from the EPA too. Let's see, NEPA, CEQA, permit fees, etc., should be able to have the permit in hand in about 3 years if things go right.

Not more rules, just some actual enforcement of the rules that we do have. If you get called to the docks for an MEL inspection post race, be there or be square. As for the seamanship issues...a little bit of training reinforcement isn't a bad thing. I know the SSS gang is bristling, largely because they tend to be more conservative as they don't have a crew to bail them out...ask Dan Benjamin. Complacency can kill people though, we're reminded when we see the empty LSC slip.

+1
Nostrings in a little over a week you will get to listen to a Physical Oceanography professor talk about wave dynamics at SFYC and I am sure we will all learn a ton.

More education is never a bad thing

Only if we can understand what the heck the guy is saying. Ever taken a stability class? Some of these guys are so educated that they can't talk to the common person any more..

[VALIS]

Like any measured race..every boat has a pre race inspection and is signed off as having what is required..what good is a post race inspection? That won't save any lives as it is after..that is like having an airplane inspected after it lands and not before.

One reason would be to see if a boat actually raced carrying all the safety gear it was supposed to. The pre-race inspection shows that you have an anchor and flares. The post-race inspection shows that you didn't leave them on the dock to lighten the boat for the race. The Pac Cup has pre and post inspections, but unless you have placed well the post-race inspection is kind of cursory. They are mostly checking to see that you didn't break into your emergency water, and stuff like that.

In theory the rules that we will be sailing under will be appropriate for the given race (category), and so being in compliance would be a good thing.

[K38BOB]

Why has it not been brought up that the EPIRB wasn't even registered to this boat but another? That was one reason that there was a foul up at the start of this emergency.

Are you sure about this?

[One eye Jack]

1338364368[/url]' post='3731804']

1338350257[/url]' post='3731644']
Why has it not been brought up that the EPIRB wasn't even registered to this boat but another? That was one reason that there was a foul up at the start of this emergency.

Are you sure about this?

I heard this from a VERY reliable source. When it was activated they thought the registered owner was in distress...and were getting calls in about LSC ..it was time before this was straighted out..the boat apparently didnt have one so to qualify for the safety equipment somebody borrowed the one that was activated .and didn't change the registration.

[K38BOB]

Why has it not been brought up that the EPIRB wasn't even registered to this boat but another? That was one reason that there was a foul up at the start of this emergency.

Are you sure about this?

I heard this from a VERY reliable source. When it was activated they thought the registered owner was in distress...and were getting calls in about LSC ..it was time before this was straighted out..the boat apparently didnt have one so to qualify for the safety equipment somebody borrowed the one that was activated .and didn't change the registration.

Well the permit is based on following the SI's.

CF SI


OYRA MEL



4.19 EPIRBs
4.19.1 A 406 MHz EPIRB shall be provided
It is recommended that a 406 MHz EPIRB should include an internal GPS, and also a
121.5MHz transmitter for local homing.
c) Every 406 MHz EPIRB shall be properly registered with the appropriate authority.
d) EPIRBs should be tested in accordance with manufacturer's instructions when first
commissioned and then at least annually.
e) A list of registration numbers of 406 EPIRBs should be notified to event organizers and kept
available for immediate use.

f) Consideration should be given to the provision of a locator device (eg an "Argos" beacon)
operating on non - SAR frequencies, to aid salvage if a yacht is abandoned.
g) Beacons with only 121.5MHz are no longer recommended for distress alerting. Satellite
processing of 121.5 MHz is being phased out. 121.5MHz will continue to be used for local
homing by on-board D/F systems and for local homing by SAR units. Type "E" EPIRBs are no
longer supported and should be replaced immediately.
US SAILING requires the use of 406 EPIRBs (with or without GPS input), as USCG advises
that rescue efforts will be launched immediately upon receipt of a distress signal from
these units. USCG also advises that PLB and INMARSAT "E" transmissions are not
monitored by U.S. Rescue Coordination Centers and that slight delays are likely to occur
while the commercial ground stations forward an alert to the USCG.
The Requirement for a 406 MHz EPIRB is amended to say that a 406 MHz EPIRB OR a 406
MHz PLB unit shall be provided. All EPIRB/PLB Devices must be properly registered with
the appropriate authority.

[Occams Razor]

I'm on conference calls up to and including larger numbers of people than would be at a Skips meeting, every day. Tonight we have a 200 person call, most attendees are in Asia, presenters in the states. Technology is available, and cheap. Also available would be a video option, with a "I watched it" checkbox.

[K38BOB]

I'm on conference calls up to and including larger numbers of people than would be at a Skips meeting, every day. Tonight we have a 200 person call, most attendees are in Asia, presenters in the states. Technology is available, and cheap. Also available would be a video option, with a "I watched it" checkbox.

If you're interested in doing some sub-committee time, I'm sure it could be utilized. I've even thought about having satellite Skippers meetings to still make it a trip to a YC (SCYC, Coyote, SBYC/StFYC/GGYC, SFYC/CYC/SYC, RYC/BYC/OYC/EYC). Freeconferencecall.com mikogo.com and a web camera and a projector hooked to an internet computer could be a free approach.

[amperrin]

1337999238[/url]' post='3727694']

1337991870[/url]' post='3727582']

1337989092[/url]' post='3727552']
That's the perfect solution: more rules. Maybe we should have to get a permit from the EPA too. Let's see, NEPA, CEQA, permit fees, etc., should be able to have the permit in hand in about 3 years if things go right.

Not more rules, just some actual enforcement of the rules that we do have. If you get called to the docks for an MEL inspection post race, be there or be square. As for the seamanship issues...a little bit of training reinforcement isn't a bad thing. I know the SSS gang is bristling, largely because they tend to be more conservative as they don't have a crew to bail them out...ask Dan Benjamin. Complacency can kill people though, we're reminded when we see the empty LSC slip.

+1
Nostrings in a little over a week you will get to listen to a Physical Oceanography professor talk about wave dynamics at SFYC and I am sure we will all learn a ton.

More education is never a bad thing

Only if we can understand what the heck the guy is saying. Ever taken a stability class? Some of these guys are so educated that they can't talk to the common person any more..

Yes I have a degree in physical oceanography and work with beakers (scientists) all the time. I agree some are not able to make it easy for the layperson but these guys should be able to one is a sailor himself.

[amperrin]

Meetings get conducted every day by conference call. Shouldn't the race organizers be able to accommodate skippers with an excessive distance burden this way?

Yes, my company runs webinars a couple of times a week for customer education and product promotion. These tools are cheap and readily available. There is a visual presentation over the Internet combined with a conference call for voice, and even a little 'chat' sidebar for running Q&A. We wouldn't even need video, just PowerPoint slides and voice.

I was contacted and asked to testify at the USS investigation. Since it is a 4 - 5 hour round trip for me to get to SFYC in the middle of a work day, I had to decline as I could not take a whole day off work, but I did offer to call in and do it over the phone. They never replied. Maybe the committee was not able to organize this on the fly, but our own local bodies should have the time to set this up properly.

I'd like to listen in on the wave physics presentation, how is this being promoted and presented? Could they do a simulcast? Maybe that Justin.TV thing could be of use, if Clean can get it to work, anyone can! SFYC is a really long haul for some of us even with a 1900 start time.

I am working hard on getting this to work out. At the moment I am at the low end of technology - my go pro camera on a tripod. But with some little help from some people hopefully it will be online by end of next week for all to watch.

[Occams Razor]

I'm on conference calls up to and including larger numbers of people than would be at a Skips meeting, every day. Tonight we have a 200 person call, most attendees are in Asia, presenters in the states. Technology is available, and cheap. Also available would be a video option, with a "I watched it" checkbox.

If you're interested in doing some sub-committee time, I'm sure it could be utilized. I've even thought about having satellite Skippers meetings to still make it a trip to a YC (SCYC, Coyote, SBYC/StFYC/GGYC, SFYC/CYC/SYC, RYC/BYC/OYC/EYC). Freeconferencecall.com mikogo.com and a web camera and a projector hooked to an internet computer could be a free approach.

Happy to pony up some time. Unfortunately, I'm not the AV geek you might need, I'm more of a user type. Most of these products make it pretty easy though - if you can get it on a PC, you can share it worldwide.

[K38BOB]

Yes I have a degree in physical oceanography and work with beakers (scientists) all the time. I agree some are not able to make it easy for the layperson but these guys should be able to one is a sailor himself.

In my work they're referred to as "propeller heads" and its a term of endearment link and are mostly PhD physicists. Chemistry is a subset of physics btw as is everything else- just ask any physicist or watch Big Bang Theory

[Dixie]

Pogen, you may also be able to invite him (the wave guy) down to your club / area at some point to talk if Ash isn't able to get her streaming tech done this weekend. Additionally, I will be there on Wed / Thursday next week and will video that and figure out how to upload, even if not real time, it will be valuable.

The event / promotion is a Safety at Sea seminar which was put up as a separate thread here on SA. Participation will get you a USS and ISAF certification and I'm sure Ashley can elucidate further on all of it.

[One eye Jack]

1338411679[/url]' post='3732637']

1338397670[/url]' post='3732313']

1338364368[/url]' post='3731804']

1338350257[/url]' post='3731644']
Why has it not been brought up that the EPIRB wasn't even registered to this boat but another? That was one reason that there was a foul up at the start of this emergency.

Are you sure about this?

I heard this from a VERY reliable source. When it was activated they thought the registered owner was in distress...and were getting calls in about LSC ..it was time before this was straighted out..the boat apparently didnt have one so to qualify for the safety equipment somebody borrowed the one that was activated .and didn't change the registration.

Well the permit is based on following the SI's.

CF SI


OYRA MEL



4.19 EPIRBs
4.19.1 A 406 MHz EPIRB shall be provided
It is recommended that a 406 MHz EPIRB should include an internal GPS, and also a
121.5MHz transmitter for local homing.
c) Every 406 MHz EPIRB shall be properly registered with the appropriate authority.
d) EPIRBs should be tested in accordance with manufacturer's instructions when first
commissioned and then at least annually.
e) A list of registration numbers of 406 EPIRBs should be notified to event organizers and kept
available for immediate use.

f) Consideration should be given to the provision of a locator device (eg an "Argos" beacon)
operating on non - SAR frequencies, to aid salvage if a yacht is abandoned.
g) Beacons with only 121.5MHz are no longer recommended for distress alerting. Satellite
processing of 121.5 MHz is being phased out. 121.5MHz will continue to be used for local
homing by on-board D/F systems and for local homing by SAR units. Type "E" EPIRBs are no
longer supported and should be replaced immediately.
US SAILING requires the use of 406 EPIRBs (with or without GPS input), as USCG advises
that rescue efforts will be launched immediately upon receipt of a distress signal from
these units. USCG also advises that PLB and INMARSAT "E" transmissions are not
monitored by U.S. Rescue Coordination Centers and that slight delays are likely to occur
while the commercial ground stations forward an alert to the USCG.
The Requirement for a 406 MHz EPIRB is amended to say that a 406 MHz EPIRB OR a 406
MHz PLB unit shall be provided. All EPIRB/PLB Devices must be properly registered with
the appropriate authority.

Just giving the EPIRB , and crew to the race committee is fine..but when the EPIRB is activated the coast guard goes by the information that was given to them when you register the EPIRB.And when it goes off they don't know if the boat is racing, cruising or what..so they won't notify the race committee. If one borrows an EPIRB..they need to contact the coast guard and tell them that the EPIRB isn't on the yacht big bill but on low speed chase..or where the EPIRB will be located..then when put back on Big Bill contact them again.This caused some time that may have possibly helped in the true rescue..but the coast guard went by that info that they had on record...Now why can somebody afford a boat that costs hundreds of thousands and not be able to afford an EPIRB..most now are less than a grand...this would have saved a lot of time...the coast guard thought that there were multiple accidents..as other boats were calling it in as low speed chase, and the EPIRB was telling them a completely different name.

[pogen]

Yes I have a degree in physical oceanography and work with beakers (scientists) all the time. I agree some are not able to make it easy for the layperson but these guys should be able to one is a sailor himself.

I also have science degrees, but I tend to think of myself as more of an anorak than a beaker.

[K38BOB]

Why has it not been brought up that the EPIRB wasn't even registered to this boat but another? That was one reason that there was a foul up at the start of this emergency.

Are you sure about this?

I heard this from a VERY reliable source. When it was activated they thought the registered owner was in distress...and were getting calls in about LSC ..it was time before this was straighted out..the boat apparently didnt have one so to qualify for the safety equipment somebody borrowed the one that was activated .and didn't change the registration.

Well the permit is based on following the SI's.

CF SI


OYRA MEL



4.19 EPIRBs
4.19.1 A 406 MHz EPIRB shall be provided
It is recommended that a 406 MHz EPIRB should include an internal GPS, and also a
121.5MHz transmitter for local homing.
c) Every 406 MHz EPIRB shall be properly registered with the appropriate authority.
d) EPIRBs should be tested in accordance with manufacturer's instructions when first
commissioned and then at least annually.
e) A list of registration numbers of 406 EPIRBs should be notified to event organizers and kept
available for immediate use.

f) Consideration should be given to the provision of a locator device (eg an "Argos" beacon)
operating on non - SAR frequencies, to aid salvage if a yacht is abandoned.
g) Beacons with only 121.5MHz are no longer recommended for distress alerting. Satellite
processing of 121.5 MHz is being phased out. 121.5MHz will continue to be used for local
homing by on-board D/F systems and for local homing by SAR units. Type "E" EPIRBs are no
longer supported and should be replaced immediately.
US SAILING requires the use of 406 EPIRBs (with or without GPS input), as USCG advises
that rescue efforts will be launched immediately upon receipt of a distress signal from
these units. USCG also advises that PLB and INMARSAT "E" transmissions are not
monitored by U.S. Rescue Coordination Centers and that slight delays are likely to occur
while the commercial ground stations forward an alert to the USCG.
The Requirement for a 406 MHz EPIRB is amended to say that a 406 MHz EPIRB OR a 406
MHz PLB unit shall be provided. All EPIRB/PLB Devices must be properly registered with
the appropriate authority.

Just giving the EPIRB , and crew to the race committee is fine..but when the EPIRB is activated the coast guard goes by the information that was given to them when you register the EPIRB.And when it goes off they don't know if the boat is racing, cruising or what..so they won't notify the race committee. If one borrows an EPIRB..they need to contact the coast guard and tell them that the EPIRB isn't on the yacht big bill but on low speed chase..or where the EPIRB will be located..then when put back on Big Bill contact them again.This caused some time that may have possibly helped in the true rescue..but the coast guard went by that info that they had on record...Now why can somebody afford a boat that costs hundreds of thousands and not be able to afford an EPIRB..most now are less than a grand...this would have saved a lot of time...the coast guard thought that there were multiple accidents..as other boats were calling it in as low speed chase, and the EPIRB was telling them a completely different name.

Thats what the links I posted said needs to occur.. so if they didn't do that, thats a problem.

[Dixie]

Just released today is the complete analysis and recommendations from US Sailing.
http://media.ussaili....aspx?vid=18654

[cap10ed]

Thanks Dixie. There is a lot to digest in that report. It seems so long ago yet it is still this calendar year.

Just released today is the complete analysis and recommendations from US Sailing.
http://media.ussaili....aspx?vid=18654

[smackdaddy]

Thanks for the update Dix. Reading now.

[pogen]

Hmm, the link is not working for me, is it a video??

[Dixie]

It's a pdf. You can access it via their link from here: http://media.ussaili...ones_Report.htm

Some of the reading is quite difficult.

[us7070]

i'm getting nothing when i try to download it.

nothing from the link above, and nothing from the link on the US Sailing site.

edit - i got it, but for some reason it took a long time

[Dixie]

Well, I've just gone through it and it's an incredibly thorough report that echoes a lot of the more prescient comments here, with regard to wave science and safety. The primary focus, in my opinion, is not in rule changes, but in compliance with existing rules, heightened education and awareness, which I am all for. In addition, they recommend some changes to / adherence with the RC protocol and SIs, but none that are particularly daunting.

One item mentioned here that really was not covered in this thread IIRC, but anecdotally around the YCs is the contact information and communications. This is something (accurate crew list, emergency contact info, VHF communication protocols) that should more broadly be written in to all off shore racing protocols, if not already.

[K38BOB]

Hmm, the link is not working for me, is it a video??

I put a copy in the cloud - US Sailing Report on LSC

Must be a no GPS zone at the NorthEast corner since both GPS show the same thing (?!)

If you provided a GPS track and would like it included link - please send it in or let whoever you sent it to know that its ok to forward to BAMA.

Did any SHF tracks get sent in?

[K38BOB]

Well, I've just gone through it and it's an incredibly thorough report that echoes a lot of the more prescient comments here, with regard to wave science and safety. The primary focus, in my opinion, is not in rule changes, but in compliance with existing rules, heightened education and awareness, which I am all for. In addition, they recommend some changes to / adherence with the RC protocol and SIs, but none that are particularly daunting.

One item mentioned here that really was not covered in this thread IIRC, but anecdotally around the YCs is the contact information and communications. This is something (accurate crew list, emergency contact info, VHF communication protocols) that should more broadly be written in to all off shore racing protocols, if not already.

Good point. Following the existing protocols is a good first step.
Its been addressed informally realtime with subsequent race such as Spin Cup with some improvements.
Its also being worked systematically through the associations named in the report.

[ProaSailor]

Just released today is the complete analysis and recommendations from US Sailing.
http://media.ussaili....aspx?vid=18654

Appendix J: GPS Track Summary
This is a summary of GPS tracks that have been reviewed for the April 14 Full Crew Farallones Race, compiled
by Jim Corenman

Low Speed Chase

The most relevant track of course is that for "Low Speed Chase". We have one track which was supplied by
USCG as an Excel file, and the same track in "gpx" format extracted from Alan Cahill's portable GPS by Bryan
Chong. This GPS unit was apparently in a mesh bag in the cockpit.
LSC's track is uneventful until 14:36:40 (PDT) when their speed drops from 10-12 kts down to 5-6 kts and
becomes a bit erratic until 14:36:53, when GPS tracking is lost until 14:37:37. During those 44 seconds they
were pushed 272 yards SE (average speed 11 kts), this is the dashed SE line shown on the track. (The dashed
line indicates loss of GPS data for that period). This is very likely the point where they were capsized,
37·42.196'N, 123·00.897'W. The track becomes very erratic after that point, and by 14:43:21 the boat had
basically come to its final position on shore.

2012 Race Tracks

A total of 14 GPS tracks were obtained for boats that completed the 2012 race, representing about 40% of the
boats that rounded the island. One is particularly interesting because it passes very close to the point where
LSC was capsized, 11 minutes after that event and without mishap. That track is shown here along with LSC's
track:

The following chart shows the 14 available tracks for the 2012 race. Of the 14, two tracks are inside the 4₃
fathom sounding at the NW corner. A third is just inside the 6-fathom curve, and another (different) track is
inside a 4₃ fathom sounding at the NE corner.

2009-2012 Farallones Race Tracks:

The following chart shows tracks from various Farallon races (crewed, double-handed, and single-handed) from
2009-2012. The second red track is LSC's GPS track from the 2011 Full Crew Farallones race, also from Cahill's
portable GPS. Again, most tracks are outside the 6-fathom contour.

[smackdaddy]

That's a sobering report. Sounds like a lot of training/education is on the horizon.

For me, this was the most difficult statement in the whole thing:

Even though several boats provided assistance through VHF communications, the panel found it troubling that no boats appear to have dropped out or delayed their race in order to render assistance, which is a basic tenet of the sea, as well as the first Fundamental Rule16 of the Racing Rules of Sailing under which the event was sailed.

Wow.

[ProaSailor]

2.2 Inadequate safety gear for offshore conditions

...

One crew was seen floating in the water with his inflatable up around his head. Although the panel was not able
to determine whether this individual might have survived if his life jacket had thigh/crotch straps, both immersed
survivors reported that thigh/crotch straps would have increased their maneuverability in the water, and it is the
panel's opinion that the riding up of the PFD/harness combination can be a survival issue.

...

In summary, there are four things which might have helped the survival rate: staying with the boat, higher
buoyancy life jackets, water-activated inflation, and thigh straps. These changes could have improved the survival
chances of those who died.

[K38BOB]

That's a sobering report. Sounds like a lot of training/education is on the horizon.
For me, this was the most difficult statement in the whole thing:

Even though several boats provided assistance through VHF communications, the panel found it troubling that no boats appear to have dropped out or delayed their race in order to render assistance, which is a basic tenet of the sea, as well as the first Fundamental Rule16 of the Racing Rules of Sailing under which the event was sailed.

Wow.

I was a bit surprised that was stated that way in the report. Panelists are familiar with the area. The racers who were nearby really had nothing to offer once LSC was on the rocks. It happened fast. The crew disappeared fast. It was a treacherous lee shore that already claimed LSC who was further inside than the fleet. There was a surf zone in between the fleet and LSC and a cliff as a backdrop- the CG called in the ANG for cliff rescue.

Radios were in use. CG was notified repeatedly and almost instantly.

I'm open minded but I'm really not sure what could be done- and I know people who were there and felt helpless.




and i can tell you that the CG preference is that once they are engaged in rescue operations- they prefer that they don't have any additional help so they don't have more people to rescue.

So I'll certainly be asking what they thought could be done that wasn't

[Dixie]

My inference from the report is that without the benefit of hindsight, the competitors would have stood by to search for possible survivors. In my conversations with competitors, it would have put them in a similar peril to stand by.

[Racing Winnebago]

Why has it not been brought up that the EPIRB wasn't even registered to this boat but another? That was one reason that there was a foul up at the start of this emergency.

Are you sure about this?

I heard this from a VERY reliable source. When it was activated they thought the registered owner was in distress...and were getting calls in about LSC ..it was time before this was straighted out..the boat apparently didnt have one so to qualify for the safety equipment somebody borrowed the one that was activated .and didn't change the registration.

The report is very detailed and worth a read by all on the water.

On this particular issue, the report concludes that the EPIRB performance and registration were irrelevant to the Coast Guard response. The VHF reports were sufficient that the USCG were well on their way before there was an EPIRB fix, and while there was an issue with the registration, that Race Committee had the right information, allowing the USCG to confirm the EPIRB was from the LSC without delay.

[jurrasicsailor]

That's a sobering report. Sounds like a lot of training/education is on the horizon.

For me, this was the most difficult statement in the whole thing:

Even though several boats provided assistance through VHF communications, the panel found it troubling that no boats appear to have dropped out or delayed their race in order to render assistance, which is a basic tenet of the sea, as well as the first Fundamental Rule16 of the Racing Rules of Sailing under which the event was sailed.

Wow.

Agreed.

[Tucky]

I was glad to see this-

"The panel considered recommending placement of an offset mark or that the race committee set a course outside the 4-fathom shoal. However, we rejected these recommendations on two grounds: 1) it places an unacceptable burden of responsibility on the race committee to declare a specific distance off-shore safe when under certain circumstances a similar result could occur and 2) in any off-shore race, there are many similar shoal areas and points, which would have similar conditions and similar dangers. It is impossible to set rounding distances at every dangerous point. Sailors must be trained to the standards of seamanship to avoid such dangers."




I think that is the appropriate response.



I'll also be buying thigh straps for my vest.

[jurrasicsailor]

That's a sobering report. Sounds like a lot of training/education is on the horizon.
For me, this was the most difficult statement in the whole thing:

Even though several boats provided assistance through VHF communications, the panel found it troubling that no boats appear to have dropped out or delayed their race in order to render assistance, which is a basic tenet of the sea, as well as the first Fundamental Rule16 of the Racing Rules of Sailing under which the event was sailed.

Wow.

I was a bit surprised that was stated that way in the report. Panelists are familiar with the area. The racers who were nearby really had nothing to offer once LSC was on the rocks. It happened fast. The crew disappeared fast. It was a treacherous lee shore that already claimed LSC who was further inside than the fleet. There was a surf zone in between the fleet and LSC and a cliff as a backdrop- the CG called in the ANG for cliff rescue.

Radios were in use. CG was notified repeatedly and almost instantly.

I'm open minded but I'm really not sure what could be done- and I know people who were there and felt helpless.




and i can tell you that the CG preference is that once they are engaged in rescue operations- they prefer that they don't have any additional help so they don't have more people to rescue.

So I'll certainly be asking what they thought could be done that wasn't

You're kidding me right? The Coast Guard regularly asks folks to standby. Is there a transcript where the USCG asked yachts to leave the scene?

[smackdaddy]

That's a sobering report. Sounds like a lot of training/education is on the horizon.
For me, this was the most difficult statement in the whole thing:

Even though several boats provided assistance through VHF communications, the panel found it troubling that no boats appear to have dropped out or delayed their race in order to render assistance, which is a basic tenet of the sea, as well as the first Fundamental Rule16 of the Racing Rules of Sailing under which the event was sailed.

Wow.

I was a bit surprised that was stated that way in the report. Panelists are familiar with the area. The racers who were nearby really had nothing to offer once LSC was on the rocks. It happened fast. The crew disappeared fast. It was a treacherous lee shore that already claimed LSC who was further inside than the fleet. There was a surf zone in between the fleet and LSC and a cliff as a backdrop- the CG called in the ANG for cliff rescue.

Radios were in use. CG was notified repeatedly and almost instantly.

I'm open minded but I'm really not sure what could be done- and I know people who were there and felt helpless.




and i can tell you that the CG preference is that once they are engaged in rescue operations- they prefer that they don't have any additional help so they don't have more people to rescue.

So I'll certainly be asking what they thought could be done that wasn't

This is what the panel thought the racers could have minimally done (from the same paragraph as above):

Although it is unlikely that the outcome would have been changed in this case, there were many ways other boats might have provided aid by signaling with those on shore, searching for those in the water, or providing continuing relays for radio communication. This topic is required in the standard US Sailing Safety At Sea seminars recommended above.

From their comments, it seems the bottom line is that, apart from radioing in the incident, the racers did nothing else. They just kept racing. In terms of the "first rule" of seamanship and racing - that's a serious black eye.

Obviously I have no personal view on what could/couldn't/did/didn't happen. I wasn't there. But the panel did some pretty extensive research it seems, including interviews with a lot of sailors who were right there. So you have to give this report merit. This statement should definitely cause some stopping and thinking (and probably some SAS training) for all of us who race off-shore.

[jurrasicsailor]

Here is an interesting read. http://offshore.ussa...1999/3_1_99.pdf I guess it was lucky the USCG did not tell them they preferred it if nobody helped?

[dbear]

Just released today is the complete analysis and recommendations from US Sailing.
http://media.ussaili....aspx?vid=18654

Appendix J: GPS Track Summary
This is a summary of GPS tracks that have been reviewed for the April 14 Full Crew Farallones Race, compiled
by Jim Corenman

Low Speed Chase

The most relevant track of course is that for "Low Speed Chase". We have one track which was supplied by
USCG as an Excel file, and the same track in "gpx" format extracted from Alan Cahill's portable GPS by Bryan
Chong. This GPS unit was apparently in a mesh bag in the cockpit.
LSC's track is uneventful until 14:36:40 (PDT) when their speed drops from 10-12 kts down to 5-6 kts and
becomes a bit erratic until 14:36:53, when GPS tracking is lost until 14:37:37. During those 44 seconds they
were pushed 272 yards SE (average speed 11 kts), this is the dashed SE line shown on the track. (The dashed
line indicates loss of GPS data for that period). This is very likely the point where they were capsized,
37·42.196'N, 123·00.897'W. The track becomes very erratic after that point, and by 14:43:21 the boat had
basically come to its final position on shore.

2012 Race Tracks

A total of 14 GPS tracks were obtained for boats that completed the 2012 race, representing about 40% of the
boats that rounded the island. One is particularly interesting because it passes very close to the point where
LSC was capsized, 11 minutes after that event and without mishap. That track is shown here along with LSC's
track:
.
.

remaining quotes snipped

Thanks for your well referenced post.

There is little or no discussion in the report about the direction of rounding.
LSC clearly "rounded to port". A few others were said to have rounded the same way.
Was the rounding direction a factor diminished or ignored in the construction of the report?.
The referenced tracks are silent on direction, with the exception of LSC

[K38BOB]

Just released today is the complete analysis and recommendations from US Sailing.
http://media.ussaili....aspx?vid=18654

Appendix J: GPS Track Summary
This is a summary of GPS tracks that have been reviewed for the April 14 Full Crew Farallones Race, compiled
by Jim Corenman

Low Speed Chase

The most relevant track of course is that for "Low Speed Chase". We have one track which was supplied by
USCG as an Excel file, and the same track in "gpx" format extracted from Alan Cahill's portable GPS by Bryan
Chong. This GPS unit was apparently in a mesh bag in the cockpit.
LSC's track is uneventful until 14:36:40 (PDT) when their speed drops from 10-12 kts down to 5-6 kts and
becomes a bit erratic until 14:36:53, when GPS tracking is lost until 14:37:37. During those 44 seconds they
were pushed 272 yards SE (average speed 11 kts), this is the dashed SE line shown on the track. (The dashed
line indicates loss of GPS data for that period). This is very likely the point where they were capsized,
37·42.196'N, 123·00.897'W. The track becomes very erratic after that point, and by 14:43:21 the boat had
basically come to its final position on shore.

2012 Race Tracks

A total of 14 GPS tracks were obtained for boats that completed the 2012 race, representing about 40% of the
boats that rounded the island. One is particularly interesting because it passes very close to the point where
LSC was capsized, 11 minutes after that event and without mishap. That track is shown here along with LSC's
track:
.
.

remaining quotes snipped

There is little or no discussion in the report about the direction of rounding.
LSC clearly "rounded to port". A few others were said to have rounded the same way.
Was the rounding direction a factor diminished or ignored in the construction of the report?.
The referenced tracks are silent on direction, with the exception of LSC

Most rounded to port. The direction is relevant from viewing perspective especially when animated/timing is considered vs radio log.

Here's an animation of some boats to give an idea
OYRA CF 2012 GPS animation


The Temerity dogleg (tack to west) is a minute or so within the LSC wave event and Temerity 1st radio call. LSC traveled Southeast over 10 knots after the incident.

[dbear]

"Most rounded to port. "

Thanks

"Here's an animation of some boats to give an idea"
OYRA CF 2012 GPS animation"

Much appreciated.

[Beau.Vrolyk]

Regarding sailors ceasing racing and standing by to help.

In all seriousness it is hard to imagine the authors of the report writing anything other than what they did. The LAST thing that anyone wants is for competitors to place racing above rescue. It has happened.

This report will go places far away and be read by people who have no idea what the gap between Middle Farallon and South Farallon can look like on a bad day, and did look like on the day LSC was lost. Therefore, I think it was imperative that the authors point out this departure from what is the standard procedure in a major emergency during a race. When there is a rescue in progress and you are close to the injured, you stand by and stop racing.

I've personally talked to some of those who were nearby and I am certainly convinced that there was nothing they could do but use the radio to help, which they did. But continuing to race was actually a painful decision for many of them. The report didn't state that they thought any boat should have attempted to go inside the surf line and try to rescue someone. They commented that standard procedure for a major emergency was not followed. That is certainly worth noting.

BV

[duncan]

thanks for this write-up; learned some new facts about swell, which we dont really get here in the east

3(wind_waves+swell) = min depth; use 4 for more margin

[One eye Jack]

1344371623[/url]' post='3816409']
Regarding sailors ceasing racing and standing by to help.

In all seriousness it is hard to imagine the authors of the report writing anything other than what they did. The LAST thing that anyone wants is for competitors to place racing above rescue. It has happened.

This report will go places far away and be read by people who have no idea what the gap between Middle Farallon and South Farallon can look like on a bad day, and did look like on the day LSC was lost. Therefore, I think it was imperative that the authors point out this departure from what is the standard procedure in a major emergency during a race. When there is a rescue in progress and you are close to the injured, you stand by and stop racing.

I've personally talked to some of those who were nearby and I am certainly convinced that there was nothing they could do but use the radio to help, which they did. But continuing to race was actually a painful decision for many of them. The report didn't state that they thought any boat should have attempted to go inside the surf line and try to rescue someone. They commented that standard procedure for a major emergency was not followed. That is certainly worth noting.

BV

If a boat was not on the. Rocks or not in a total life threading area like this boat was, if anybody tried to do any type of rescue, there would have been more than 1 boats crew needing rescue..Now if this was something like a boat sinking out in the open then damn right you stop and assist, but this wasn't.. One needs to survey the situation before they should do any rescue.. Ryle Radkey a few years ago on Friday Harbor, did perform a rescue with his J 35 at the island ,BUT where the boat that was in trouble wasn't in the surf line or up on the rocks , but a deep area right up against the island. If Friday Harbor didn't assist, there probably have been injuries and damage to the boat, more than there was already..So to say that the standard procedure. For a major emergency wasn't followed.. If it was in this accident we WOULD have had many injured, lost and many damaged boats..more than we experienced. .The first thing is to help, but this time it would have been a total disaster. Everything that the other boats could do ,was done by trying to notify the authorities about the accident..

[jurrasicsailor]

Complete and utter crap. Check the logs, uscg was not on site for nearly an hour. So you know there is an emergency, there is no rescue operation that you can observe, and it isn't even worth lowering your sails and maintaining station at some safe point in the off hope of sighting any survivors? Not worth motoring around to the lee side to see if anyone managed to escape the surf? NOTHING? Sad commentary, really sad.

[MVS]

From latitude letters 1999:
Note the comm issues, better but still needs work

Re:HARVEY SHLASKY ( original letter Korea patten)

This year's Doublehanded Farallones Race brought challenges for some and tragedy for Harvey Shlasky, my best friend and life partner, who died during the event. We had just moved aboard Rocinante, our Creaklock 37, and were making plans for adventures to distant lands.

The knowledge that Harvey lost his life doing what he loved offers some comfort, however it is the love and support of friends and strangers alike that has gotten me through this trying time. I want to thank each of you for that special thought, prayer, hug or a shoulder to cry on. I also extend a very special thanks to the Coast Guard team for their heroic efforts to rescue Harvey from the water; to Bruce Nesbit of Razzberries, who called the mayday and stood by; and Mark Van Selst, who did everything humanly possible to try to save Harvey's life.

There are many lessons to be learned from this year's Doublehanded Race, and not just lessons related to Harry's death. First, all mariners need to very carefully consider their assumptions about the safety of you and others. Something as simple as where you terminate the jacklines and how your body would drag relative to your boat if you went overboard could spell the difference between safety and tragedy.

Second, this year's Doublehanded event highlighted some communication problems: 1) There needs to be better communication between the racing community and the Coast Guard. For example, the Coast Guard was unable to effectively evaluate and respond to the calls they received because they were unable to maintain direct contact with race officials. 2) To that end, it is imperative that we members of the racing community monitor our VHFs so that we are aware of calls being made to the Coast Guard or race committees Ö and be available to relay messages from the far side of the Farallones. As it was, the Coast Guard received 30 calls about the F-31 that turtled during the same event because racers weren't aware that other racers had already called it in. 3) We need to take a more proactive approach to see that the Coast Guard and the racing community become more knowledgeable about each other. It was sobering, for example, to talk to the Coast Guard rescue team and realize they didn't know what a man overboard pole was. I don't mention this as a criticism of the Coast Guard, but rather a wake-up call for all of us who are operating under false assumptions.

Therefore, I challenge the Ocean Yacht Racing Association, the local racing associations, and representatives of the Coast Guard to develop a forum in which to build teamwork, develop better communication procedures, and educate each other on the uniqueness of the two world's. Let it be Harvey Shlasky's legacy that we learn to work better as a team to make sailing safer for everyone to enjoy.

Lastly, keep sailing Ö but be safe. And when you round the Farallones the next time, think of Harvey.

Jorja Patten
Rocinante, Crealock 37
Berkeley

[K38BOB]

From latitude letters 1999:
Note the comm issues, better but still needs work

Re:HARVEY SHLASKY ( original letter Korea patten)

That's the one.... eerie

[Beau.Vrolyk]

1344371623[/url]' post='3816409']
Regarding sailors ceasing racing and standing by to help.
...snip...

I've personally talked to some of those who were nearby and I am certainly convinced that there was nothing they could do but use the radio to help, which they did. But continuing to race was actually a painful decision for many of them. The report didn't state that they thought any boat should have attempted to go inside the surf line and try to rescue someone. They commented that standard procedure for a major emergency was not followed. That is certainly worth noting.

BV

If a boat was not on the. Rocks or not in a total life threading area like this boat was, if anybody tried to do any type of rescue, there would have been more than 1 boats crew needing rescue..Now if this was something like a boat sinking out in the open then damn right you stop and assist, but this wasn't.. One needs to survey the situation before they should do any rescue.. Ryle Radkey a few years ago on Friday Harbor, did perform a rescue with his J 35 at the island ,BUT where the boat that was in trouble wasn't in the surf line or up on the rocks , but a deep area right up against the island. If Friday Harbor didn't assist, there probably have been injuries and damage to the boat, more than there was already..So to say that the standard procedure. For a major emergency wasn't followed.. If it was in this accident we WOULD have had many injured, lost and many damaged boats..more than we experienced. .The first thing is to help, but this time it would have been a total disaster. Everything that the other boats could do ,was done by trying to notify the authorities about the accident..

Aren't we actually agreeing? What's your point? That there is no "standard procedure"? That's nonsense as as Racing Rule 1.1 pretty well spells it out:

1.1 Helping Those in Danger
A boat or competitor shall give all possible help to any person or vessel in danger.

Is it that you think the competitor's assessed the situation and then correctly decided there was nothing they could do? Isn't that what I said above? I'll repeat, I've talked to some of those who were there and I am certainly "personally" convinced there was nothing more that they could do. However, in hind sight it is easy to think of things that just might have provided some very low probability of aid, like hanging around to leeward or attempting to spot someone on shore for the USCG while waiting an hour for them to arrive. If the USCG had known that people were on shore and alive they might have deployed different assets, probably not but who knows. Some of those who were there when it happened are haunted by such monday-morning reviews of what happened and thoughts of what they might have done.

Neither I, nor anyone else has suggested that a competitor put themselves in danger, which you seem to have interpreted "standard procedure" to mean. The report didn't suggest that either. What a lot of folks are still berating themselves about is: "Was there something I could have done?" Standard procedure is clearly spelled out in the RRS and appropriately includes the word "possible", see quote above. It is also entirely appropriate for the report to point out that every competitor decided there was nothing that could be done. That, bye the way, is more of a comment on the sorts of conditions on the windward side of Maintop Island than it is on the seamanship of the competitors.

Bluntly put, there is a racing rule and there is common human decency, both of which strongly suggest that if there is any possibility that one can help one does help. The competitors made what was, in my opinion, the entirely correct judgement that there was indeed nothing they could possibly do that they hadn't already done. Second guessing them is pretty lame from folks who weren't there. Criticizing the report for pointing out the departure from what happens in almost every other circumstance, which was what I was actually responding to, is equally lame for all the reasons I've already posted.

BV

[Beau.Vrolyk]

From latitude letters 1999:
Note the comm issues, better but still needs work

Re:HARVEY SHLASKY ( original letter Korea patten)

That's the one.... eerie

I think you'll find that there are a number of improvements that were made because of what happened in 1999 and also what happened in the early '80s. Clearly, more need to be made and are being made. To believe that somehow it will ever be perfect is naive. This is an on-going process and will get better and better as technology improves. We could, for example, require sat phones on boats that would allow near instant communications with the USCG and the OA. At some point, that will be cheap enough to be a requirement.

BV

[Dixie]

I spent the day yesterday on a safety boat for a Junior Championship regatta with a gentleman who is now retired and works actively and often as an auxiliary CG engineer. He was involved in the rescue.
I went over with him the details of the report and we talked about the accident as analytically as I ever have. He has brought in 4 deceased from various off shore races in the last several years and said not a one of them wore a tether. He also felt strongly that the organizing authority stop treating this race as coastal and instead as an ocean race. To complain about safety equipment needed onboard, as someone did in the survey, means you shouldn't be doing this race as you just don't understand that the ocean doesn't care. You must be prepared in advance.

The letter above published in Latitude makes me wonder if it takes an accident every few years to wake us up? It more so underlines the need in April / May to stop all off shore racing while a deeper analysis was undertaken.

As for standing by after the wave crashed LSC...I felt similarly that people should have stood by until I talked to a friend with whom I've sailed on the Pacific and Atlantic. There was no way, he said, without putting themselves in peril, that they could have stood by. They radioed as much information as they had at the time and continued on. It was not easy to do, but there was not a place on that side of the island to safely stand by, without risking a wash by a similar set of waves.

Could they have acted as a relay? The report indicates that this was a missing element in the calls that came ashore, though did not hinder the rescue. I find it chilling that the EPIRB took 40 minutes to give a good signal to the rescuers. The initial VHF calls to RC and CG were crucial.

[Paul Romain Tober]

2009-2012 Farallones Race Tracks:

The following chart shows tracks from various Farallon races (crewed, double-handed, and single-handed) from
2009-2012. The second red track is LSC's GPS track from the 2011 Full Crew Farallones race, also from Cahill's
portable GPS. Again, most tracks are outside the 6-fathom contour.

Wow.

[One eye Jack]

1344444476[/url]' post='3817447']

1344384325[/url]' post='3816657']

1344371623[/url]' post='3816409']
Regarding sailors ceasing racing and standing by to help.
...snip...

I've personally talked to some of those who were nearby and I am certainly convinced that there was nothing they could do but use the radio to help, which they did. But continuing to race was actually a painful decision for many of them. The report didn't state that they thought any boat should have attempted to go inside the surf line and try to rescue someone. They commented that standard procedure for a major emergency was not followed. That is certainly worth noting.

BV

If a boat was not on the. Rocks or not in a total life threading area like this boat was, if anybody tried to do any type of rescue, there would have been more than 1 boats crew needing rescue..Now if this was something like a boat sinking out in the open then damn right you stop and assist, but this wasn't.. One needs to survey the situation before they should do any rescue.. Ryle Radkey a few years ago on Friday Harbor, did perform a rescue with his J 35 at the island ,BUT where the boat that was in trouble wasn't in the surf line or up on the rocks , but a deep area right up against the island. If Friday Harbor didn't assist, there probably have been injuries and damage to the boat, more than there was already..So to say that the standard procedure. For a major emergency wasn't followed.. If it was in this accident we WOULD have had many injured, lost and many damaged boats..more than we experienced. .The first thing is to help, but this time it would have been a total disaster. Everything that the other boats could do ,was done by trying to notify the authorities about the accident..

Aren't we actually agreeing? What's your point? That there is no "standard procedure"? That's nonsense as as Racing Rule 1.1 pretty well spells it out:

1.1 Helping Those in Danger
A boat or competitor shall give all possible help to any person or vessel in danger.

Is it that you think the competitor's assessed the situation and then correctly decided there was nothing they could do? Isn't that what I said above? I'll repeat, I've talked to some of those who were there and I am certainly "personally" convinced there was nothing more that they could do. However, in hind sight it is easy to think of things that just might have provided some very low probability of aid, like hanging around to leeward or attempting to spot someone on shore for the USCG while waiting an hour for them to arrive. If the USCG had known that people were on shore and alive they might have deployed different assets, probably not but who knows. Some of those who were there when it happened are haunted by such monday-morning reviews of what happened and thoughts of what they might have done.

Neither I, nor anyone else has suggested that a competitor put themselves in danger, which you seem to have interpreted "standard procedure" to mean. The report didn't suggest that either. What a lot of folks are still berating themselves about is: "Was there something I could have done?" Standard procedure is clearly spelled out in the RRS and appropriately includes the word "possible", see quote above. It is also entirely appropriate for the report to point out that every competitor decided there was nothing that could be done. That, bye the way, is more of a comment on the sorts of conditions on the windward side of Maintop Island than it is on the seamanship of the competitors.

Bluntly put, there is a racing rule and there is common human decency, both of which strongly suggest that if there is any possibility that one can help one does help. The competitors made what was, in my opinion, the entirely correct judgement that there was indeed nothing they could possibly do that they hadn't already done. Second guessing them is pretty lame from folks who weren't there. Criticizing the report for pointing out the departure from what happens in almost every other circumstance, which was what I was actually responding to, is equally lame for all the reasons I've already posted.

BV

Did I say that I was not agreeing with you? The point is that the rules say that you shall stand by and assist , isn't always clear cut.One need to read totally another's posting before complaining.. But EXCUSE ME. I was saying that there are times where the standard procedures will do more damage than good, and where this accident happened, helping those in danger would have put the rescuers in the same position as those already there. , and then another would come along and put themselves in danger. Sometimes the book and the rules have to be thrown out and common sence be used.. And on this accident it was. The biggest problem was that the radio was overloaded, with notifying the authorities and an open mike.ASatphone might have been nice, but who can afford everything that you think will work. There is a point when you are out in the ocean when nobody holds your hand any more..Mommy isn't their and You need to use common sence and do it the best you can. And to safely go from point A to point B..So you need to calm down and get your panties out of that wad.

[Beau.Vrolyk]

1344444476[/url]' post='3817447']
.snip...

1.1 Helping Those in Danger
A boat or competitor shall give all possible help to any person or vessel in danger.

...snip...

Did I say that I was not agreeing with you? The point is that the rules say that you shall stand by and assist , isn't always clear cut.One need to read totally another's posting before complaining.. But EXCUSE ME. I was saying that there are times where the standard procedures will do more damage than good, and where this accident happened, helping those in danger would have put the rescuers in the same position as those already there. , and then another would come along and put themselves in danger. Sometimes the book and the rules have to be thrown out and common sence be used.. And on this accident it was. The biggest problem was that the radio was overloaded, with notifying the authorities and an open mike.ASatphone might have been nice, but who can afford everything that you think will work. There is a point when you are out in the ocean when nobody holds your hand any more..Mommy isn't their and You need to use common sence and do it the best you can. And to safely go from point A to point B..So you need to calm down and get your panties out of that wad.

My panties are just fine. I'd suggest you read the rule VERY SLOWLY and see if anyone still needs to do what you suggest when you say:

Sometimes the book and the rules have to be thrown out and common sence [sic] be used.

Exactly what is it about "all possible help" that you find difficult to understand? (the bold is mine, just trying to help.) I'm sure you'll be just fine out in the big bad ocean all by yourself being all self-reliant, but that happens to have nothing to do with the point. The Rule and the standard that is expected of sailors is just fine, you just don't seem to understand it.

BV

[K38BOB]

BV and One eye I think are in violent agreement (and I agree and with Dixie having had similar conversations).

Having spent time out at "lands end" with a VHF as a radio relay station (old school w a car driving back/forth and later with cell phones and now text/smartphones) for the fleet to RC at StFYC or GGYC, the one thing that might have been helpful would have been a radio relay by a boat standing off with line of sight to LSC. Not sure if they had radio ability or not at LSC. Not sure if I would have thought of it if I was there- doubtful even with my background.

Good topic to consider in NC-ORC situational awareness playbook- I'll let them know (and I'm sure some others here will also).

To help put things in perspective. Might be useful to watch Deception ( a Santa Cruz 50) remembering they were well ahead of LSC as well as Double Trouble in the GPS animations and the tide was falling



Deception was further out then Green Buffalo who barely discerned LSC as a boat on shore IIRC and they were as close in as LSC track.
For those out of area viewers please listen to the wind noise and remember the comments in the report about not hearing VHF..and the water was 51 degrees. The CG also has many remote radios on the coastal range with lotso watts- so we are used to them being able to hear and transmit much more than we mere civilians do.

GPS track animation CF


 SL21 GB arrives LSC.jpg   67.01K   49 downloads


The time component is important to consider.

Great writeup at L38 link

[One eye Jack]

1344455750[/url]' post='3817717']

1344449701[/url]' post='3817586']

1344444476[/url]' post='3817447']
.snip...

1.1 Helping Those in Danger
A boat or competitor shall give all possible help to any person or vessel in danger.

...snip...

Did I say that I was not agreeing with you? The point is that the rules say that you shall stand by and assist , isn't always clear cut.One need to read totally another's posting before complaining.. But EXCUSE ME. I was saying that there are times where the standard procedures will do more damage than good, and where this accident happened, helping those in danger would have put the rescuers in the same position as those already there. , and then another would come along and put themselves in danger. Sometimes the book and the rules have to be thrown out and common sence be used.. And on this accident it was. The biggest problem was that the radio was overloaded, with notifying the authorities and an open mike.ASatphone might have been nice, but who can afford everything that you think will work. There is a point when you are out in the ocean when nobody holds your hand any more..Mommy isn't their and You need to use common sence and do it the best you can. And to safely go from point A to point B..So you need to calm down and get your panties out of that wad.

My panties are just fine. I'd suggest you read the rule VERY SLOWLY and see if anyone still needs to do what you suggest when you say:

Sometimes the book and the rules have to be thrown out and common sence [sic] be used.

Exactly what is it about "all possible help" that you find difficult to understand? (the bold is mine, just trying to help.) I'm sure you'll be just fine out in the big bad ocean all by yourself being all self-reliant, but that happens to have nothing to do with the point. The Rule and the standard that is expected of sailors is just fine, you just don't seem to understand it.

BV

Soooo great one..JUst what would you have done if you were out there? Try to stand by and attempt a rescue? Join in with all others that clogged channel 16 trying to call in this emergency? You seem to be the great one in the know of things...educate us..

[U20guy2]

Complete and utter crap. Check the logs, uscg was not on site for nearly an hour. So you know there is an emergency, there is no rescue operation that you can observe, and it isn't even worth lowering your sails and maintaining station at some safe point in the off hope of sighting any survivors? Not worth motoring around to the lee side to see if anyone managed to escape the surf? NOTHING? Sad commentary, really sad.

You've never been around the rock pile on a rough err normal day have you?

[One eye Jack]

U20guy2: you are right it appears like there are some that haven't been around the island even on a nice day.. For you that can't understand why nobody stuck around..let me tell you a little story.. Ever heard of Hydrogen Sulfide? If you go past most oil refineries and get that rotten egg smell ,that's it.. It replaces your white blood cells and will basically smother you when you get to much.. It is from rotting organics( sewage). So.. A man climbs down a vault in the middle of the street, is overcome by H2S (hydrogen sulfide) is passed out or dead.. Man on hole watch looks down, sees worker on the ground, climbs down into vault to rescue other worker, is over come by H2S, another worker looks down the hole to see where the hole watch guy is, try's to rescue the other two and the list goes on..sometimes when you want to and try a rescue, you will become part of the rescued and no longer the rescuer..But there are some that don't have common sense and will try, because that's what the book says..or rules say.. Sailing, boating, yachting what ever you want to call it has many rules regulations, but it all boils down to using ones frickin head. If you are a stickler on these let me ask you, if you were in New York city, a police officer is in a shoot out with a criminal, the cop goes down, do you stand by? Or assist the downed cop, pick up his gun and start shooting... OPPS you just broke the law here. And then there would be those that don't want to break the law to save somebody..Or do we need to draw you pictures to explain why nobody could stand by this accident.

[U20guy2]

U20guy2: you are right it appears like there are some that haven't been around the island even on a nice day.. For you that can't understand why nobody stuck around..let me tell you a little story.. Ever heard of Hydrogen Sulfide? If you go past most oil refineries and get that rotten egg smell ,that's it.. It replaces your white blood cells and will basically smother you when you get to much.. It is from rotting organics( sewage). So.. A man climbs down a vault in the middle of the street, is overcome by H2S (hydrogen sulfide) is passed out or dead.. Man on hole watch looks down, sees worker on the ground, climbs down into vault to rescue other worker, is over come by H2S, another worker looks down the hole to see where the hole watch guy is, try's to rescue the other two and the list goes on..sometimes when you want to and try a rescue, you will become part of the rescued and no longer the rescuer..But there are some that don't have common sense and will try, because that's what the book says..or rules say.. Sailing, boating, yachting what ever you want to call it has many rules regulations, but it all boils down to using ones frickin head. If you are a stickler on these let me ask you, if you were in New York city, a police officer is in a shoot out with a criminal, the cop goes down, do you stand by? Or assist the downed cop, pick up his gun and start shooting... OPPS you just broke the law here. And then there would be those that don't want to break the law to save somebody..Or do we need to draw you pictures to explain why nobody could stand by this accident.

Not to mention that in the conditions they had and the distance to be to stand off you would hardly be able to see the boat on the rocks let alone tell if anyone was on the boat, off the boat - on the rocks or in the water.

[NoStrings]

1344444476[/url]' post='3817447']
.snip...

1.1 Helping Those in Danger
A boat or competitor shall give all possible help to any person or vessel in danger.

...snip...

Did I say that I was not agreeing with you? The point is that the rules say that you shall stand by and assist , isn't always clear cut.One need to read totally another's posting before complaining.. But EXCUSE ME. I was saying that there are times where the standard procedures will do more damage than good, and where this accident happened, helping those in danger would have put the rescuers in the same position as those already there. , and then another would come along and put themselves in danger. Sometimes the book and the rules have to be thrown out and common sence be used.. And on this accident it was. The biggest problem was that the radio was overloaded, with notifying the authorities and an open mike.ASatphone might have been nice, but who can afford everything that you think will work. There is a point when you are out in the ocean when nobody holds your hand any more..Mommy isn't their and You need to use common sence and do it the best you can. And to safely go from point A to point B..So you need to calm down and get your panties out of that wad.

My panties are just fine. I'd suggest you read the rule VERY SLOWLY and see if anyone still needs to do what you suggest when you say:

Sometimes the book and the rules have to be thrown out and common sence [sic] be used.

Exactly what is it about "all possible help" that you find difficult to understand? (the bold is mine, just trying to help.) I'm sure you'll be just fine out in the big bad ocean all by yourself being all self-reliant, but that happens to have nothing to do with the point. The Rule and the standard that is expected of sailors is just fine, you just don't seem to understand it.

BV

The problem I have is with the words "shall" and "all possible", which IMHO commits other skippers into attempting to render assistance in contravention of their responsibility to exercise good seamanship and to protect the safety of their vessel and crew. How does one measure "all possible"?

[K38BOB]

Here is an interesting read. http://offshore.ussa...1999/3_1_99.pdf I guess it was lucky the USCG did not tell them they preferred it if nobody helped?

Yes it certainly is, but you take my comments out of context and make them black and white in a world that includes shades of gray.

That event was near the location of LSC event but not violent- steep swell according to my friend and neighbor Gary who still is freaked out by it- especially when these reminder events occur. We lost Shlasky in that race on another boat and we know more about proper tether use as a result.

You missed the other fleet rescue award in 2008. There was also a self rescue of a dismasted boat in the 2012 CF.

I personally had 3 of 6 parts of a main halyard cable fail (like 3 gunshots) crossing maintop bay in a doublehanded race with a short hoist #4 and a double reefed main on a Santa Cruz 27. We had the room to address/jury rig the halyard. Since this was before handheld VHF- the CG Helo we thought was on patrol was searching for an SOS on a capsized boat who had lost battery power. We lost Madigan that day. Survivor of the 82 race and winner of 83. Vivid and haunting memories- what could we have done?

Big fan of education, contingency planning and the ability to execute the plan, self rescue and fleet rescue. CG as last resort because time is of the essence in these cold waters. I'm a big fan (conceptually) of DSC VHF radios since they function as a positioning type of flare to facilitate fleet rescue. Gary commented that it was very gratifying to see the fleet turn when the flare was lit. Of course only people looking ahead to him saw it. DSC is a 360 "visibility" solution whether you're looking or not- great facilitator of fleet rescue. GPS-Epirbs great faciltator for CG rescues.

Read from the bottom up link

[smackdaddy]

1.1 Helping Those in Danger
A boat or competitor shall give all possible help to any person or vessel in danger.

...snip...

The problem I have is with the words "shall" and "all possible", which IMHO commits other skippers into attempting to render assistance in contravention of their responsibility to exercise good seamanship and to protect the safety of their vessel and crew. How does one measure "all possible"?

NS brings up a good point that I think people are dancing around. So I'll volunteer to be the bad guy for a moment and point out the elephant in the room. And it's directly related to this comment from K38 - who's apparently thick in the scene there in SF:

Yes it certainly is, but you take my comments out of context and make them black and white in a world that includes shades of gray.

Black and white vs. shades of gray.

The arguments people have used thus far for NOT standing-by generally center around the fact that no one could go in there and actually do a rescue...or that standing-by near that lee-shore was too dangerous. Those are pretty black-and-white arguments. Furthermore, I haven't seen anyone (definitely not in the report) say that those things were what should have been done. From the report itself:

Even though several boats provided assistance through VHF communications, the panel found it troubling that no boats appear to have dropped out or delayed their race in order to render assistance, which is a basic tenet of the sea, as well as the first Fundamental Rule16 of the Racing Rules of Sailing under which the event was sailed. Although it is unlikely that the outcome would have been changed in this case, there were many ways other boats might have provided aid by signaling with those on shore, searching for those in the water, or providing continuing relays for radio communication. This topic is required in the standard US Sailing Safety At Sea seminars recommended above.

Now, several have talked about how each of these things were not really possible or practical or safe. Still black-and-white. Now to NoString's post above and the "gray" - which is where most readers of this report will come down. And here's where I become the bad guy.

From this report, these are now the general questions in people's minds that no amount of black-and-white explaining away will solve:

How could these guys just keep racing after what they saw? Their racing mates had just been been pushed onto the rocks by huge waves. How could they not have lowered their sails and motored to a distance or area of relative safety and waited for the CG to show up? Even if such an action was nothing more than a show of respect and/or support for the guys on LSC isn't that the first rule of the sea - that you leave no one behind until you know it's really over?

Yes, it's all very gray...especially when you're a skipper that has to make that decision at that moment. But the elephant in the room is that these are extremely valid questions that need to be addressed. Why? Because of what Voss thought while he was looking out from that rock with a broken leg:

He reported he was heartened to see several race boats off Maintop Bay, heading in both directions, which he interpreted (incorrectly) to mean the boats were standing by to help.

That's pretty black-and-white.

[amperrin]

Sometimes the book and the rules have to be thrown out and common sence [sic] be used.

Exactly what is it about "all possible help" that you find difficult to understand? (the bold is mine, just trying to help.) I'm sure you'll be just fine out in the big bad ocean all by yourself being all self-reliant, but that happens to have nothing to do with the point. The Rule and the standard that is expected of sailors is just fine, you just don't seem to understand it.

BV

The problem I have is with the words "shall" and "all possible", which IMHO commits other skippers into attempting to render assistance in contravention of their responsibility to exercise good seamanship and to protect the safety of their vessel and crew. How does one measure "all possible"?

At that point Nick I think you would go to Rule 2 of the COLREGs Responsibility of the skipper..

Rule 2
Responsibility
(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the
consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which
may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.
(B In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation
and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved,
which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

Bear in mind though that this doesn't give any vessel the right to take action contrary to the rules when ever it is considered to be advantageous to do so. The departure (as in not standing physically by) is only permitted when there are special circumstances and there is immediate danger. the departure must be of such a nature as to avoid the danger which threatens.

[SailRacer]

"All possible" to me means to do Whatever is possible while keeping the crews of all rescue boats as safe as you can.

Makes me think that a line gun (with proper training) might be a good addition for boats racing near breaking waves with inhospitable shores. IMO.
Sail safe!

[Test]

2009-2012 Farallones Race Tracks:

The following chart shows tracks from various Farallon races (crewed, double-handed, and single-handed) from
2009-2012. The second red track is LSC's GPS track from the 2011 Full Crew Farallones race, also from Cahill's
portable GPS. Again, most tracks are outside the 6-fathom contour.

Wow.

A point of navigation and reading charts -- all the crosses on the chart at the NW point of Maintop Bay where LSC went in are known shipwrecks. We can now add another.

[K38BOB]

1.1 Helping Those in Danger
A boat or competitor shall give all possible help to any person or vessel in danger.

...snip...

The problem I have is with the words "shall" and "all possible", which IMHO commits other skippers into attempting to render assistance in contravention of their responsibility to exercise good seamanship and to protect the safety of their vessel and crew. How does one measure "all possible"?

NS brings up a good point that I think people are dancing around. So I'll volunteer to be the bad guy for a moment and point out the elephant in the room. And it's directly related to this comment from K38 - who's apparently thick in the scene there in SF:

Yes it certainly is, but you take my comments out of context and make them black and white in a world that includes shades of gray.

Black and white vs. shades of gray.

The arguments people have used thus far for NOT standing-by generally center around the fact that no one could go in there and actually do a rescue...or that standing-by near that lee-shore was too dangerous. Those are pretty black-and-white arguments. Furthermore, I haven't seen anyone (definitely not in the report) say that those things were what should have been done. From the report itself:

Even though several boats provided assistance through VHF communications, the panel found it troubling that no boats appear to have dropped out or delayed their race in order to render assistance, which is a basic tenet of the sea, as well as the first Fundamental Rule16 of the Racing Rules of Sailing under which the event was sailed. Although it is unlikely that the outcome would have been changed in this case, there were many ways other boats might have provided aid by signaling with those on shore, searching for those in the water, or providing continuing relays for radio communication. This topic is required in the standard US Sailing Safety At Sea seminars recommended above.

Now, several have talked about how each of these things were not really possible or practical or safe. Still black-and-white. Now to NoString's post above and the "gray" - which is where most readers of this report will come down. And here's where I become the bad guy.

From this report, these are now the general questions in people's minds that no amount of black-and-white explaining away will solve:

How could these guys just keep racing after what they saw? Their racing mates had just been been pushed onto the rocks by huge waves. How could they not have lowered their sails and motored to a distance or area of relative safety and waited for the CG to show up? Even if such an action was nothing more than a show of respect and/or support for the guys on LSC isn't that the first rule of the sea - that you leave no one behind until you know it's really over?

Yes, it's all very gray...especially when you're a skipper that has to make that decision at that moment. But the elephant in the room is that these are extremely valid questions that need to be addressed. Why? Because of what Voss thought while he was looking out from that rock with a broken leg:

He reported he was heartened to see several race boats off Maintop Bay, heading in both directions, which he interpreted (incorrectly) to mean the boats were standing by to help.

That's pretty black-and-white.

Thanks. some good nuggets in the report that I missed - still digesting all the details and analyzing vs other inputs and experiences. Didn't notice the radio relay comment and good I came to the same conclusion after thinking about it overnight. Now time to figure out a way to institutionalize it and we have the venue to do that IRL. I still don't think I would have come up with the radio relay idea insitu realtime even with my background- maybe? If you read my original comment on this, it is to go get information from those involved- realize the locals that need to address these issues are also learning the details of the data that was collected. I commend all involved but some analysis might be different with more comprehensive data/perspective than this review event allowed. Even if the analysis is the same, how its stated might be different especially as you look at the popular headlines of the stories covering the report.

Here's another reason why I like VHF DSC (tethered to my body!). My friend Dave had a similar situation as Voss and graciously spoke at subsequent skipper's meeting to share his experience for the benefit of others

"Just moments after getting their bearings, the duo realized a Moore 24 — they have no idea which one — was screaming by about 100 yards away. They yelled but went unheard. "My first thought was, 'Oh my God, we're going to die.'" Instead of panicking, the two experienced sailors discussed their options. They had a knife and a compact but powerful waterproof LED flashlight that Wilhite had stowed in his pocket. But without a way to communicate, things would turn ugly fast.Wilhite knew there was a waterproof handheld VHF in a sheet bag in the submerged cockpit. "I was presented with a choice," Wilhite said. "I remembered a line fromShawshank Redemption: 'Get busy living or get busy dying.'" So he took a deep breath, let go of the lifeline and swam back under the boat!

Let's pause for a moment to let that sink in. In 12- to 14-ft seas with 40-knot winds, this man with a pair of cojones the size of Texas and Alaska combined, let go of a perfectly good boat to swim back under it. If you're looking for a modern-day hero, look no farther than Dave Wilhite."

link


Of the 10 boats ( I think thats the number ) that went by LSC after the event and before CG was on station an hour later, I wonder how many knew the event had occurred and/or saw the boat. I know that the closest boat had trouble seeing LSC as a boat on shore- let alone people. Of those 10 that knew about the event in that time window , how many realized the CG was not on station until an hr had gone by? I would like to see a transcript- I'm looking forward to the next best thing when a buddy returns from Hawaii

Also realize this is still traumatic for many involved and in the area and will be for some time.

[DogBalls]

2009-2012 Farallones Race Tracks:

The following chart shows tracks from various Farallon races (crewed, double-handed, and single-handed) from
2009-2012. The second red track is LSC's GPS track from the 2011 Full Crew Farallones race, also from Cahill's
portable GPS. Again, most tracks are outside the 6-fathom contour.

Wow.

A point of navigation and reading charts -- all the crosses on the chart at the NW point of Maintop Bay where LSC went in are known shipwrecks. We can now add another.

GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU PIECE OF SHIT

[U20guy2]

Really sad that we have people on this thread who think that other boats had any chance of providing any sort of assistance by stopping and staying on a lee shore in big water. Also it has been pointed out by many of us who have gone around this rock pile many times that - even if boats had quit the race and stood by the safe distance and size of the swells would have made both the boat up on the rocks nearly impossible to see and any crew actually impossible to see. The only safe thing that could have been done by anyone who actually spotted the boat in trouble is call the CG and get a helicopter on scene as soon as possible.

If this were a flat calm body of water lacking huge pacific swells and no lee shore to contend with sure every boat in the race would have made tracks to assist and stand by given they could have done so in a safe manner.

The armchair lake sailors here who all thing things are warm - flat and easily powered away from haven't a clue what type of conditions and how limited your options are around the rock pile when the surf is up.

[Ahi Tuna]

Wow. I am often amazed by the perspective of someone who has never sailed around the Farallones on a challenging day.

• Some have suggested dropping sail and starting the motor to hang around. I can't do that in 25 knot winds and 12+ foot seas! I was already sailing with a first reef and a really small #4 jib. I take the sails down and rely on the motor which in those conditions might suck air through the cooling intake, NOT good seamanship. Have you ever sailed in those conditions?
• Where this incident happened is sort of like the top of a funnel, and everything (25 knot winds and 12ft seas, some much larger, remember?) is heading into the funnel. It sucked a boat into it in less than 2 minutes. The crew are likely not going anywhere but into the funnel. I can't go into the funnel without going up on the rocks myself. We had that discussion at the time.
• We saw the CG helo just before we saw LSC. The helo appeared to fly by and we immediately hailed them on 16 to let them know what we saw. The response was basically 'we got it, stand by' and they meant stand by the radio, not stick around the area.
• Once we knew the CG was on scene we discussed that everyone aboard should carefully look for people in the water, and we continued to do that for the rest of the trip around the island.
• Folks need to carefully read the report. I see observations in SA that it took the CG so long to get there. Do you have any idea where the Farallones are? How far from shore? The report said the incident happened at 14:36 and that the USCG's first notification of it was 14:40, less than 4 minutes later. The CG helo was in the air and had to land for fuel to get there and have air time to do anything.
• Who do you think called the USCG? Santa Clause? It was race boats. That is rendering aid.

As soon as we realized something had happened our first thought was how do we help, not racing on without a care in the world. Our second thought was how do we help without endangering our boat and our crew. Our decision was to make sure the CG knew what we did and look for people in the water. We have all had to deal with it since that day but even in hindsight I am comfortable that we rendered all possible aid without putting our vessel at significant risk.

I don't fault and won't second guess the panel for the comment that we should have done more. I believe that most, if not all the racers that day had to make the same decisions we did about how to help without jeopardizing our own boat. It was not about cavalierly continuing our race with no regard for the vessel in distress. It is not a bad thing that we are all reminded of our responsibility to aid others in distress.


There are a lot of changes already in place to improve things should a similar situation happen again, and it will to some extent. More changes are in the works.

[Ahi Tuna]

2009-2012 Farallones Race Tracks:

The following chart shows tracks from various Farallon races (crewed, double-handed, and single-handed) from
2009-2012. The second red track is LSC's GPS track from the 2011 Full Crew Farallones race, also from Cahill's
portable GPS. Again, most tracks are outside the 6-fathom contour.

Wow.

A point of navigation and reading charts -- all the crosses on the chart at the NW point of Maintop Bay where LSC went in are known shipwrecks. We can now add another.

GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU PIECE OF SHIT

Somebody need some education in how to read a chart (a chart is like a map except it has depth soundings on it).

The crosses and stars are rocks! A shipwreck would not last there long enough to make it to a chart.

sheesh!

[smackdaddy]

Also realize this is still traumatic for many involved and in the area and will be for some time.

Thanks for the level-headed post K. I agree with you completely.

There's a great deal of info in the report...most of which deserves some serious analysis as you say.

As for the number of nearby boats interviewed, here's a couple of references:

1.6.7 Witnesses: The crews of at least seven other race boats witnessed the initial capsize and/or saw the boat on the rocks and called the Coast Guard on VHF channel 16 or the race committee on VHF channel 69. Due to poor radio protocol, there was initial confusion about which boat, or how many boats, were in trouble. Due to inaccurate race committee crew records (see 1.1.2 and 1.6.1), there was confusion about how many crew were on board Low Speed Chase. There were problems with overlapping transmissions and an apparently-stuck microphone. Of the seven other race boat crews interviewed who witnessed the incident, all deemed the conditions too dangerous to physically stand by and attempt to render assistance. All continued racing.

Page 13: Although all the boats reported either seeing or hearing of the capsize, and five attempted to provide assistance by sending a distress call to the Coast Guard, no boats delayed or dropped out of racing to stand by physically in order to provide further assistance. None reported seeing any of the flares set on shore or any floating safety gear.

Then you've got responses to the surveys, etc. in Appendix K.

Keep us informed on how these discussions go.

[SF_Bay_Sailor]

This is my first ever post to SA so bear with me.
While the posts have been focusing on whether boats should have stood by and not continued racing (and I will not add my opinion here) there are some real positive points that we should learn from
1 - PFD's with crotch or thigh straps. I hate crotch straps, but I am now going to look for thigh straps for my PFD that are comfortable while racing.
2 - tethering - I have always assumed that being on the rail or in the cockpit doesn't really need tethering - I am rethinking that policy and am going to go and buy my own tether for the next time I head offshore - it makes sense to me.

Oh and my opinion about standing by - I think Beau has pretty much said it all - the west coast is an unfreindly lee shore and the Islands that day were particularly unfriendly

Ian

[MR.CLEAN]

Really sad that we have people on this thread who think that other boats had any chance of providing any sort of assistance by stopping and staying on a lee shore in big water.

Why is so hard to understand that the report, authored by people with more sailing experience in their left pinky than you have in your whole body, expressed their own surprise that other vessels did not stand by at a safe distance?

Are you really calling Sally Honey, Evans Starzinger, et. al. Lake Sailors?

Clearly, boats helped as best they felt they could. The report simply read that standing by might have provided some benefits.

[holoino]

Here's something to think about, and I believe the report is somewhat inaccurate about that.
The problem with that accident (well the first bit) is not that the boat went too close to a lee shoal, if "lee" pertains to weather. They were simply too shallow, as far as the swell is concerned.
Imagine this, if the wind had been identical in strength, wind waves the same height, but from the South, they would have been in the lee of the shoal "weather wise", yet, with that 14' swell at 14s from the NW, they would have still been rolled by that wave, with the same end result.
I guess this is my Hawaii bias, where "weather" (here weather = wind+wind seas) have a different direction than swell. but it was still the case in that accident. 15-25 knots of wind does not create a 12-15' 13 s swell, you need much stronger winds than that to create such a swell, and these stronger winds were well offshore of the area, some time before. ie, the swell conditions encountered were not due to the local weather.
Conclusion, the swell capsized that boat, not the weather, and these two can be from different direction. You are much safer when you're leeward "weather-wise" of an obstacle, that's basic seamanship everyone knows. But when there is a swell and you're shallow, you're in danger, not matter what side of the obstacle you are "weather-wise"

[U20guy2]

Really sad that we have people on this thread who think that other boats had any chance of providing any sort of assistance by stopping and staying on a lee shore in big water.

Why is so hard to understand that the report, authored by people with more sailing experience in their left pinky than you have in your whole body, expressed their own surprise that other vessels did not stand by at a safe distance?

Are you really calling Sally Honey, Evans Starzinger, et. al. Lake Sailors?

Clean - I noted "Those here on the forum". Stan and those folks are members of my club and I have great respect for their skill and experience. Reading a report is one thing - giving those who were there a hard time for doing something that pretty much any boat out there would have judged as not safe and not prudent for their own safety is simply out of line.

[unShirley]

That's a sobering report. Sounds like a lot of training/education is on the horizon.

For me, this was the most difficult statement in the whole thing:

Even though several boats provided assistance through VHF communications, the panel found it troubling that no boats appear to have dropped out or delayed their race in order to render assistance, which is a basic tenet of the sea, as well as the first Fundamental Rule16 of the Racing Rules of Sailing under which the event was sailed.

Wow.

Sobering for me, too, b/c, I have to admit, had I been there, I probably would have assessed that there was nothing I could do and kept sailing, too. This self-analysis shames me, but, I know better now.
If I am ever in a similar situation in the future, having learned from the LSC incident, I know to at least standby, regardless of whether I think I can help or not. Hopefully, then, I will be able to find a way to help.

I am humbled.

[buffalosail]

The approaches to SF are tricky in rough weather. Swinging around the islands too tight will get you killed same as getting caught in the Potatoe Patch. My memories of the area includes old salts saying to be very careful in any weather outside the SF gate because of deep water waves meeting the shallower waters. Would not hurt in future to include warning in race instructions on the 4 fathom line trap. Sounds like at least one other vessel cut it close during the race and lucked through it. Bottom line sailing has risk, we need to spend some time in preparation and charting to reduce the risk factor. Sorry for the loss to the families....

[Dixie]

Wow. I am often amazed by the perspective of someone who has never sailed around the Farallones on a challenging day.

• Some have suggested dropping sail and starting the motor to hang around. I can't do that in 25 knot winds and 12+ foot seas! I was already sailing with a first reef and a really small #4 jib. I take the sails down and rely on the motor which in those conditions might suck air through the cooling intake, NOT good seamanship. Have you ever sailed in those conditions?
• Where this incident happened is sort of like the top of a funnel, and everything (25 knot winds and 12ft seas, some much larger, remember?) is heading into the funnel. It sucked a boat into it in less than 2 minutes. The crew are likely not going anywhere but into the funnel. I can't go into the funnel without going up on the rocks myself. We had that discussion at the time.
• We saw the CG helo just before we saw LSC. The helo appeared to fly by and we immediately hailed them on 16 to let them know what we saw. The response was basically 'we got it, stand by' and they meant stand by the radio, not stick around the area.
• Once we knew the CG was on scene we discussed that everyone aboard should carefully look for people in the water, and we continued to do that for the rest of the trip around the island.
• Folks need to carefully read the report. I see observations in SA that it took the CG so long to get there. Do you have any idea where the Farallones are? How far from shore? The report said the incident happened at 14:36 and that the USCG's first notification of it was 14:40, less than 4 minutes later. The CG helo was in the air and had to land for fuel to get there and have air time to do anything.
• Who do you think called the USCG? Santa Clause? It was race boats. That is rendering aid.

As soon as we realized something had happened our first thought was how do we help, not racing on without a care in the world. Our second thought was how do we help without endangering our boat and our crew. Our decision was to make sure the CG knew what we did and look for people in the water. We have all had to deal with it since that day but even in hindsight I am comfortable that we rendered all possible aid without putting our vessel at significant risk.

I don't fault and won't second guess the panel for the comment that we should have done more. I believe that most, if not all the racers that day had to make the same decisions we did about how to help without jeopardizing our own boat. It was not about cavalierly continuing our race with no regard for the vessel in distress. It is not a bad thing that we are all reminded of our responsibility to aid others in distress.


There are a lot of changes already in place to improve things should a similar situation happen again, and it will to some extent. More changes are in the works.

+1 and thank you.

[K38BOB]

The approaches to SF are tricky in rough weather. Swinging around the islands too tight will get you killed same as getting caught in the Potatoe Patch. My memories of the area includes old salts saying to be very careful in any weather outside the SF gate because of deep water waves meeting the shallower waters. Would not hurt in future to include warning in race instructions on the 4 fathom line trap. Sounds like at least one other vessel cut it close during the race and lucked through it. Bottom line sailing has risk, we need to spend some time in preparation and charting to reduce the risk factor. Sorry for the loss to the families....

4 fathom is a probably bad if you go there and not necessarily safe if you don't.
That subtlety needs to be understood
The culture needs to be enhanced through education, communication.
Some guidelines are useful. My take away from conversations is that waves break in water depth 1.3 x wave height and that the sneaker wave is 2x the significant wave height (which is the avg of the 1/3 biggest waves) which is what you hear on the radio- plus wind chop. So about 3x significant wave height is kind of a minimum for depth. This area also experiences mixed swell directions especially during storm periods where wind can be from the south and swing through the west to northwest as it did for a race earlier this year.

Then you can add refraction and diffraction of waves at the islands and subsequent additions on top of the above. A reason why its called devil's teeth (which is also downstream from a Pacific current perspective in addition to being a typically lee shore)

The area from Middle Farallones to SE Farallones has been almost continually breaking in recent race history.

google map


That's why the report is focusing on education and leaving responsibility to the sailor. Defining "safe" is a slippery slope when so many variables are involved.

[vtsail]

Here's something to think about, and I believe the report is somewhat inaccurate about that.
The problem with that accident (well the first bit) is not that the boat went too close to a lee shoal, if "lee" pertains to weather. They were simply too shallow, as far as the swell is concerned.
Imagine this, if the wind had been identical in strength, wind waves the same height, but from the South, they would have been in the lee of the shoal "weather wise", yet, with that 14' swell at 14s from the NW, they would have still been rolled by that wave, with the same end result.
I guess this is my Hawaii bias, where "weather" (here weather = wind+wind seas) have a different direction than swell. but it was still the case in that accident. 15-25 knots of wind does not create a 12-15' 13 s swell, you need much stronger winds than that to create such a swell, and these stronger winds were well offshore of the area, some time before. ie, the swell conditions encountered were not due to the local weather.
Conclusion, the swell capsized that boat, not the weather, and these two can be from different direction. You are much safer when you're leeward "weather-wise" of an obstacle, that's basic seamanship everyone knows. But when there is a swell and you're shallow, you're in danger, not matter what side of the obstacle you are "weather-wise"

For your sake I would delete this post before you get ridiculed.

[ProaSailor]

FYI, an impressively succinct and accurate summary of the report on the S.F. Chronicle web site, with photos:

Farallones accident blamed on crew (sfgate.com)

[ProaSailor]

FYI, an impressively succinct and accurate summary of the report on the S.F. Chronicle web site, with photos:

Farallones accident blamed on crew (sfgate.com)

[Ahi Tuna]

The Chronicle article is a succinct report of the report. If you are viewing this from outside the SF area that is probably all you need. The Readers Digest version if you will.

If however you sail in the SF area and plan to race on the ocean as skipper or crew I urge you to carefully read at least section 1 and 2 and appendix I. Changes are being made to race management practices, some equipment requirements, and other areas. It is important that you understand why these changes are taking place and help support the effort to make us all safer.

[Diarmuid]

A point of navigation and reading charts -- all the crosses on the chart at the NW point of Maintop Bay where LSC went in are known shipwrecks. We can now add another.

I bet if you removed your head & reached far enuf up your rectum, you could dig out your soiled copy of Chart No.1 for review. Bonus: more room for your head afterwords!

[Dixie]

I'm not a big fan of that SF Gate article and think the one on the SA FP today does a significantly better job codifying the report, so I will memorialize it here:
After some pretty dismal efforts of late, US Sailing's Safety at Sea Committee seems to have finally figured out what accident reports are supposed to accomplish, and we commend SAS Committee Chair Chuck Hawley and the independent panel investigating the Low Speed Chase tragedy for authoring the clear and concise Farallones Reportreleased earlier this week.

Unlike the editorialized, agenda-driven Wingnuts report last year, this one is a template that future accident investigations can feel comfortable using, in part thanks to the experience and knowledge gained by panelist Jim Wildey in his years as an analyst with the NTSB. After our own careful reading of the report, we have little doubt that this one WILL SAVE LIVES, and we highly recommend everyone who races outside the harbor take a long and careful look. Your crews' lives may depend on it.

For the attention-span impaired, here are the points we find most salient:

• There is very little margin for error for those caught overboard in cold or extremely turbulent seas like frequently encountered outside the Golden Gate. Yet Low Speed Chase's crew weren't tethered, in fact most of the crew didn't even have tethers attached to their PFDs. Even after being rolled and stuck in the surf zone, the boat was still, by far, the safest place to be.
• Dinghy vests and fanny pack PFDs are near useless in these conditions, and even adequate PFDs lose most of their usefulness if worn without crotch straps, and manual pulls can be nearly impossible to reach when stuck in a surf zone.
• Study the bottom features of any lee shores you may encounter when sailing. Do a little simple math; while there are detailed formulae that can help, simple rules of thumb for safe depths in potentially breaking waves are the minimum any offshore sailor should know. One such rule says to multiply the maximum height of deepwater significant wave height by a factor of 3, and stay deeper than that number. If there's a 14' swell and 4 foot wind waves, that means stay outside depths of 54 feet. It doesn't matter how many times you've sailed over the same spot: Don't take the math for granted unless you want to tempt fate. And for Christ's sake, as anyone who's been stuck in the surf zone will tell you, if you see faces start to rear up, TURN AROUND AND GO BACK THE WAY YOU CAME.
• Never forget that significant wave height forecasts or observations are not the maximum height you will encounter. The biggest waves will be twice the significant wave height.
• If you don't already know how, learn the proper way to send out a Mayday. There's a reason a specific (and very easy to learn) protocol is proscribed by the Coast Guard and basic seamanship concepts: Search and Rescue personnel can help you best if you follow the procedure they most easily understand.
• Race Officers have a duty to accurately account for each boat and each crew before the start of an offshore race, no matter how short. Cutting corners or letting folks get away with shortcuts can create confusion that may end up costing a life.
• Those with more experience with safety – even if not the captain -- have a duty to check on their crews. If someone doesn't have a crotch strap on their PFD, help them put it on. If a driver's course isn't accounting for leeway on a lee shore, help them steer a better course. Don't wait for the 'person in charge' to tell you to harness up, especially if you're in cold or turbulent water. You are literally all in it together.
• If you see some shit going down on a nearby vessel from your own race boat – even one that can't get to the imperiled vessel – don't keep racing! You may be able to help in ways you don't realize; acting as a comms relay, spotting heads in the water, or providing a visual beacon for SAR services.

Don't screw around, folks. While much of this info is basic seamanship to those who routinely make long passages, a great deal has not yet been fully internalized by racing crews. It's up to all of us to make it so.
The full discussion on the SA board starts here.

[some dude]

This is my first ever post to SA so bear with me.
While the posts have been focusing on whether boats should have stood by and not continued racing (and I will not add my opinion here) there are some real positive points that we should learn from
1 - PFD's with crotch or thigh straps. I hate crotch straps, but I am now going to look for thigh straps for my PFD that are comfortable while racing.
2 - tethering - I have always assumed that being on the rail or in the cockpit doesn't really need tethering - I am rethinking that policy and am going to go and buy my own tether for the next time I head offshore - it makes sense to me.

Oh and my opinion about standing by - I think Beau has pretty much said it all - the west coast is an unfreindly lee shore and the Islands that day were particularly unfriendly

Ian

+1. Been out there, at night, without tethers and I'm scaring myself just thinking about it. Was just looking at harnesses and tethers in APS's website.

Re crotch/thigh straps; I recognize how valuable they must be whne in the water, so your PDF doesn't float up around your head/arms as you're trying to swim, BUT-it seems like they would really (a) restrict mobility, and/or ( catch on everything as you move around on deck while sailing.

In big breeze and waves, at night, moving around on deck in full foulies, boots, PFD, and a harness/tether, it seems like you'd have enough trouble without your thigh/crotch straps catching on the genoa tracks, winches, etc. etc.
Thoughts?

[Dixie]

My thought is that you should read my last post reposting the SA FP article with the points from the report, and if that doesn't scare you enough, read the personal accounts in the report.

I watched my friend Ashley, who I expect will also respond to your post, wear a spinlock with thigh straps off shore last week. In an one epic moment she had to ride the end of one of the biggest booms I've ever seen trying to fix the boom furler in 40kt breezes and 15' seas. They didn't get in her way, and I don't think they'd get in yours.

[DRIFTW00D]

The Chronicle article is a succinct report of the report. If you are viewing this from outside the SF area that is probably all you need. The Readers Digest version if you will.

If however you sail in the SF area and plan to race on the ocean Offshore as skipper or crew I urge you to carefully read at least section 1 and 2 and appendix I. Changes are being made to race management practices, some equipment requirements, and other areas. It is important that you understand why these changes are taking place and help support the effort to make us all safer.

This is bigger than you think. Knives and Tethers were a big change in both Macs this year.

[USA1273]

This is my first ever post to SA so bear with me.
While the posts have been focusing on whether boats should have stood by and not continued racing (and I will not add my opinion here) there are some real positive points that we should learn from
1 - PFD's with crotch or thigh straps. I hate crotch straps, but I am now going to look for thigh straps for my PFD that are comfortable while racing.
2 - tethering - I have always assumed that being on the rail or in the cockpit doesn't really need tethering - I am rethinking that policy and am going to go and buy my own tether for the next time I head offshore - it makes sense to me.

Oh and my opinion about standing by - I think Beau has pretty much said it all - the west coast is an unfreindly lee shore and the Islands that day were particularly unfriendly

Ian

+1. Been out there, at night, without tethers and I'm scaring myself just thinking about it. Was just looking at harnesses and tethers in APS's website.

Re crotch/thigh straps; I recognize how valuable they must be whne in the water, so your PDF doesn't float up around your head/arms as you're trying to swim, BUT-it seems like they would really (a) restrict mobility, and/or ( catch on everything as you move around on deck while sailing.

In big breeze and waves, at night, moving around on deck in full foulies, boots, PFD, and a harness/tether, it seems like you'd have enough trouble without your thigh/crotch straps catching on the genoa tracks, winches, etc. etc.
Thoughts?

Sailed offshore for 20+ years without a crotch strap (and for the most part tether or lifejacket), and after the Rambler incident I was told by folks who lived through it to never wear an inflatable without one. Folks said an inflatable without a crotch strap is a good as no inflatable in those conditons. I was very skeptical about mobility but wore the croth strap anyway. 52 hours from Newport to Bermuda, trimming headsails and main in upwards of 50kts I never had the strap hook on one thing.