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VOR Leg 7


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#101 Carboninit

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:31 PM



Groupama split to the east...
nobody follows... gamble or genius?

:blink:

Go Groupama!


They know what they are doing. Hook up on the bottom of the system,then onto the next system. They are brilliant at this.It will be good to watch it unfold . The French have the best weather system in the World and offshore sailors.


The French have the best weather prediction model you mean? Correct.
Did you forget leg 1? It didn't work really well then...

I have not forgot leg 1 . The crew and skipper are a class act. Lets see how it pans out on the podium.

#102 couchsurfer

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 05:34 PM




Groupama split to the east...
nobody follows... gamble or genius?

:blink:

Go Groupama!


They know what they are doing. Hook up on the bottom of the system,then onto the next system. They are brilliant at this.It will be good to watch it unfold . The French have the best weather system in the World and offshore sailors.


The French have the best weather prediction model you mean?
Did you forget leg 1? It didn't work really well then...


All the boats are given the exact same weather data to use... no more, no less... Nobody has an advantage with the weather models they use...

How they use the data is another story...

Bill


maybe Groupon's got one of these :) .......Attached File  dice1.jpg   4.33K   72 downloads

#103 Carboninit

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:38 PM

There is a difference . The skipper of Groupama knows what he is looking at.Total respect for them.You look at Abu dabba poo and it looks like a bus ,you look at Groupama and it looks right.

#104 roca

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:45 PM

"In any case, after a day at sea, "DJ Francky" and his group have performed an excellent prelude in this battle royal!"

#105 Pierre S

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:45 PM

Not sure they will be able to catch Speedy Alberto though. Does anybody with good routing software have any predictions on this? The VOR Predictor shows the boats failing to catch it, but based on the previous leg it's a toy rather than a tool.

#106 couchsurfer

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:37 PM

1830utc,,what a difference a sched makes around there :blink:

...a 50mile lead for Groupon,,,over the gayshoesboat with the other two 'competitors' within a few miles

..looks like things likely will compress as Groupa hits a lighter section(?) ahead.....

#107 josselin

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:40 PM

outch 50 miles in few hours... great call from Groupama!:blink:

#108 couchsurfer

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:46 PM

..looks like things likely will compress as Groupa hits a lighter section(?) ahead.....


.....oh,,actually looks the other way :unsure:

#109 30Man

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:50 PM

Just shows how piss poor the wind observations displayed on the tracker are. Shows Groupama with 4 knots but their windspeed is 24 knots. Not likely Groupama is reading incorrectly. Without showing real weather it is hard to make sense of where anyone will go.

#110 swe727

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:59 PM

Just shows how piss poor the wind observations displayed on the tracker are. Shows Groupama with 4 knots but their windspeed is 24 knots. Not likely Groupama is reading incorrectly. Without showing real weather it is hard to make sense of where anyone will go.


sometimes it works to forward the weather overlay a few hours, it will then agree more with the observed data from the boats and give an idea about the possibilities over the next few hours

#111 dolphinmaster

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:17 PM

Looks like Alberto took a right turn and swallowed the chasers again.

#112 erdb

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:24 PM

Seems to me there is some confusion about Alberto even in Yann Riou's message. Alberto is the smaller system off Florida and S Carolina and Groupama already crossed it and the others seem to be stuck in the middle of it. There is a larger low pressure system further NE, which Groupama might be able to catch, although they need to sail fast to do that.

This is Alberto and its track for the next few days:

Posted Image

#113 Vorwaerts

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:29 PM

Just shows how piss poor the wind observations displayed on the tracker are. Shows Groupama with 4 knots but their windspeed is 24 knots. Not likely Groupama is reading incorrectly. Without showing real weather it is hard to make sense of where anyone will go.

I am not so sure that it is the problem of the tracker. I am guessing that this it just lays over some grib files, probably form the gfs model. It might be that the update it not very frequently. But all the weather models have difficulties to predict the velocity of the low pressure systems. Often two different models will produce different results. That is also why there are navigators on board this boats and not just computers. They look at the satellite pictures the different models and then use their experience to decide which model is more correct. I am pretty sure that nobody except G4 planed to end up on the wrong side of the low (otherwise they would not bail out). This fact alone shows that the models are somewhat wrong. Obviously G4 suspected that the low centre is a bit more to the east and jibbed earlier. For a moment it looked as if Puma got it right as well.

Edit: Just look at the picture above to get an idea about the uncertainty of the track of the tropical depression. The circles which indicate possible locations of the centre are getting rather large after just a few days.

#114 erdb

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:45 PM

This is pretty cool from the National Hurricane Center:

http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/at201201.disc.html


data from an Air Force hurricane hunter aircraft confirm that
Alberto is still a tropical storm. Maximum SFMR-observed surface
winds were 37 kt and peak 1000 ft flight-level winds were 39 kt. It
should also be noted that several yachts from the volvo ocean race
have been sailing not far from...or through...the center of
Alberto...and have also measured winds of tropical storm force.
One of the yachts measured a pressure very close to the estimated
central pressure of the storm.
The cloud pattern is becoming
increasingly sheared with the low-level center now exposed to the
southwest of the deep convection. A continued increase in vertical
shear is forecast by the global models...and this should result in
Alberto weakening to dissipation in about 2 days. Global
models...however...suggest that the cyclone could dissipate sooner
than that.


Alberto continues to move eastward...or 080/7. There is essentially
no change to the track forecast from the previous advisory. An
amplifying mid-level trough to the west of the tropical cyclone
should cause the system to accelerate northeastward over the next
couple of days. The official forecast is an extension of the
previous one and is more or less in the middle of the dynamical
track model guidance. This forecast track keeps the compact
cyclone well offshore of the U.S. East Coast.


Forecast positions and Max winds


init 21/2100z 30.5n 77.9w 35 kt 40 mph
12h 22/0600z 31.7n 76.4w 35 kt 40 mph
24h 22/1800z 33.4n 74.3w 30 kt 35 mph
36h 23/0600z 35.4n 71.7w 30 kt 35 mph
48h 23/1800z 37.5n 69.0w 25 kt 30 mph...Post-trop/extratrop
72h 24/1800z...dissipated


$$
forecaster Pasch

#115 harzak

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:53 PM

A couple of random thoughts/questions:

1. Did Telefonica do more training than the other boats before the VOR?

2. What did Groupama do to get their boat going again?

#116 Panoramix

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:39 PM


Getting Ian to call the boat a dog and outright support a 1d does not seem soft ball to me, but some of the people, some of the time, and all that. Least I could do was let him talk nice after talking shit ya know? 12 minutes all he had time for though, well see what u think of others. I like em and am usually my own worst critic


I agree, there was no soft ball. Asking him as you did why his boat was so slow offshore was the most interesting question you could ask. Well done, and great interview, with a good qulity sound, which is always a good bonus!


+1

And he was very quick to praise his guys. As a skipper, it must be tricky for him to keep the team together and you can't really expect him to destroy his team in public when his job is to keep it together. I am sure that on each boat there are tensions from time to time but if it goes too far it's easy enough to disembark a trouble maker.

#117 Panoramix

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:58 PM


Just shows how piss poor the wind observations displayed on the tracker are. Shows Groupama with 4 knots but their windspeed is 24 knots. Not likely Groupama is reading incorrectly. Without showing real weather it is hard to make sense of where anyone will go.

I am not so sure that it is the problem of the tracker. I am guessing that this it just lays over some grib files, probably form the gfs model. It might be that the update it not very frequently. But all the weather models have difficulties to predict the velocity of the low pressure systems. Often two different models will produce different results. That is also why there are navigators on board this boats and not just computers. They look at the satellite pictures the different models and then use their experience to decide which model is more correct. I am pretty sure that nobody except G4 planed to end up on the wrong side of the low (otherwise they would not bail out). This fact alone shows that the models are somewhat wrong. Obviously G4 suspected that the low centre is a bit more to the east and jibbed earlier. For a moment it looked as if Puma got it right as well.

Edit: Just look at the picture above to get an idea about the uncertainty of the track of the tropical depression. The circles which indicate possible locations of the centre are getting rather large after just a few days.


Looking at wind directions from the various boats, it looks like that the low ended up further East and South than planned. Relatively to the low Groupama may be a tad too North to use the low fully. Regarding the split from Groupama, I suspect that Nelias was looking at the clouds when the others were looking at their computer screens.

#118 Mud sailor

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:18 PM

wow, another interesting sched, Camper loose 20 miles to Puma...not sure where they were going....Groupama look good but going slower than the chasers

#119 coxcreek

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:20 PM

21 hours and there's 42nm of separation - I didn't see anyone predicting that.
I think Puma look good in the middle at the moment. Good navigation has been a feature of their recent good form.
Camper look confused.


Very confused, yes, second place and speed above everyone else (bar G4 winner?) - Puma looks slow (or unlucky or not so great navigation) judging by how quickly she was overhauled, now in line astern.

#120 A Florida Redneck

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:23 PM



Getting Ian to call the boat a dog and outright support a 1d does not seem soft ball to me, but some of the people, some of the time, and all that. Least I could do was let him talk nice after talking shit ya know? 12 minutes all he had time for though, well see what u think of others. I like em and am usually my own worst critic


I agree, there was no soft ball. Asking him as you did why his boat was so slow offshore was the most interesting question you could ask. Well done, and great interview, with a good qulity sound, which is always a good bonus!


+1

And he was very quick to praise his guys. As a skipper, it must be tricky for him to keep the team together and you can't really expect him to destroy his team in public when his job is to keep it together. I am sure that on each boat there are tensions from time to time but if it goes too far it's easy enough to disembark a trouble maker.

+1
Dising Clean for not getting Ian to sell out his crew is a bit of a stretch. If at all that question should be asked after the finish in Galway. Well after.
And Clean said he might go to Ireland for the finish. Whether or not it's a question that has to be asked at all is debatable. Depends upon what school of journalism you prefer. No sense asking it now, though...



#121 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:24 PM

wow, another interesting sched, Camper loose 20 miles to Puma...not sure where they were going....Groupama look good but going slower than the chasers


Camper must have been nailed by a squall, their track went crazy for a while

#122 harzak

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:33 PM

Groupama max wind speed this sched: 49 knots.

Edit: While Camper 25 knots. Could it be damaged sail?

#123 valor

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:06 PM

looks like Puma recovered from a bad sched by changing course, and re-engaging with speed. Camper is the surprise....they got dusted on this last sched. Good calls by G4, good for them.

#124 rtrs

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:21 PM




A bit disappointing, nothing we did not know already. Mostly just lobbing him a bunch of softballs and letting him off the hook on the tough issues. Ian does not need this kind of kid-glove treatment - he is a great guy and intense competitor. But that did not come through in the interview at all - instead it basically was just a platform for him to sweet-talk his sponsor and pass the buck.

Hope the other interviews have more substance.


"Ballast Technician" strikes me as someone who would walk up to someone he doesn't know and call them an asshole, walk away, and brag to his friends how much of a hardass he is.

Great interview clean.

#125 valor

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:56 PM





A bit disappointing, nothing we did not know already. Mostly just lobbing him a bunch of softballs and letting him off the hook on the tough issues. Ian does not need this kind of kid-glove treatment - he is a great guy and intense competitor. But that did not come through in the interview at all - instead it basically was just a platform for him to sweet-talk his sponsor and pass the buck.

Hope the other interviews have more substance.


"Ballast Technician" strikes me as someone who would walk up to someone he doesn't know and call them an asshole, walk away, and brag to his friends how much of a hardass he is.

Great interview clean.

???? Where does that come from? Everything I have heard from people that know Ian well is that he is a genuinely nice guy. Don't understand where your comment comes from...

#126 tamaozy

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:00 AM

That was crazy. It was like Camper just got a bit tired half way through the marathon, pulled off the side of the road and got their breath back, then rejoined the race. I can only think it was a breakage, anything else makes no sense at all.

#127 Beachcomber

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:49 AM



Good insight from this interview, but I draw some different conclusions to Walker and some of the observers here.

More than anything else, what has hurt Abu Dhabi has been the short amount of preparation time they had. That's much more significant than the compressed design schedule than Farr faced. And believing you have a slow boat is almost as bad as actually having a slow boat. That's why they reflexively went the opposite side of the islands to G4 in the Caribbean.

I hope AD got to watch the replay because they might find some answers there. Although its more starts, tactics and handling that win short races, I think the boat is fast on flat water. That's the sweet spot Walker doesn't realize, or let on, that they have. The blunt stem (not so much the fullness of the bow) must slow them down a bit in waves. Telephonica kept up with AD on the first beat of the in-port not because their boat was faster, but because they hit the layline closer to the mark, judged it better and overstood it less.

#128 A Florida Redneck

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:24 AM




Good insight from this interview, but I draw some different conclusions to Walker and some of the observers here.

More than anything else, what has hurt Abu Dhabi has been the short amount of preparation time they had. That's much more significant than the compressed design schedule than Farr faced. And believing you have a slow boat is almost as bad as actually having a slow boat. That's why they reflexively went the opposite side of the islands to G4 in the Caribbean.

I hope AD got to watch the replay because they might find some answers there. Although its more starts, tactics and handling that win short races, I think the boat is fast on flat water. That's the sweet spot Walker doesn't realize, or let on, that they have. The blunt stem (not so much the fullness of the bow) must slow them down a bit in waves. Telephonica kept up with AD on the first beat of the in-port not because their boat was faster, but because they hit the layline closer to the mark, judged it better and overstood it less.


Well Ian did say it was a well balanced boat. Perhaps too well balanced?
Some of the fastest boats are a bitch to drive.
Lack of prep time might be a factor.
Only so much you can do if you don't put in the miles in the months before the first start.
Obviously Tele put in that time but the others have clearly closed the gap.
Not so much Abudhabians...

#129 A Florida Redneck

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:27 AM

That was crazy. It was like Camper just got a bit tired half way through the marathon, pulled off the side of the road and got their breath back, then rejoined the race. I can only think it was a breakage, anything else makes no sense at all.

Had to be either breakage or really bad puff that got them out of sorts x 2.

Way too radical track to be only tactical I think.....

#130 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:47 AM

A final word on interviews; these guys are SO HAPPY to get to answer real questions from a sailor rather than the usual stuff they get from the vast majority of their interviewers, who always want to know the same shit. "Do you shower?" "What is the toilet like?" "Can you explain what eating freeze-dried food is like?" "What do you do when you're tired?" and so on. Plus, every one of them has been reading SA for years, and quite a few of them have shared a drink or seven with me (the Walker interview started off with us laughing about the last time we saw eachother in Alicante, but he sort of did a double take when he remembered this would get seen quite a lot and AD ain't into drinking...). So they ramble on, and I enjoy their openness, and before we know it, we're 10 or 15 minutes in and they have press conferences, local TV interviews, and so on. So I do my best, but every interview ends with me wanting another 5 questions. Specifically BT, it was on my list to talk about crew dynamics, the reported conflict aboard, and so on to run to. It was also on my list to sit down with Rob Greenhalgh, who is a friend, but we just never found time to make it happen. That's why my chat with Deppe was so great - we both looked up at the display that I had flipped over after a chat that seemed like maybe 15 minutes, and both said at the same time "shit!" when we saw it was already on 28 minutes. I also remembered a final video I did that is super interesting to the more geeky of us - with Robert Hopkins and the guys at Nortek that invented the Doppler Log (crazy knotmeter that measures leeway perfectly) and all its repercussions and advantages. Gonna take a couple days, but gold.

Enjoying this leg as it unfolds, and Kenny's vid is compressing finally!

#131 Lost in Translation

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:01 AM

Looking forward to it. The interview with Ian was superb. Sure, there is more to cover, but I was still a fan of the interview.

#132 ~HHN92~

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:09 AM

A final word on interviews; these guys are SO HAPPY to get to answer real questions from a sailor rather than the usual stuff they get from the vast majority of their interviewers, who always want to know the same shit. "Do you shower?" "What is the toilet like?" "Can you explain what eating freeze-dried food is like?" "What do you do when you're tired?" and so on. Plus, every one of them has been reading SA for years, and quite a few of them have shared a drink or seven with me (the Walker interview started off with us laughing about the last time we saw eachother in Alicante, but he sort of did a double take when he remembered this would get seen quite a lot and AD ain't into drinking...). So they ramble on, and I enjoy their openness, and before we know it, we're 10 or 15 minutes in and they have press conferences, local TV interviews, and so on. So I do my best, but every interview ends with me wanting another 5 questions. Specifically BT, it was on my list to talk about crew dynamics, the reported conflict aboard, and so on to run to. It was also on my list to sit down with Rob Greenhalgh, who is a friend, but we just never found time to make it happen. That's why my chat with Deppe was so great - we both looked up at the display that I had flipped over after a chat that seemed like maybe 15 minutes, and both said at the same time "shit!" when we saw it was already on 28 minutes. I also remembered a final video I did that is super interesting to the more geeky of us - with Robert Hopkins and the guys at Nortek that invented the Doppler Log (crazy knotmeter that measures leeway perfectly) and all its repercussions and advantages. Gonna take a couple days, but gold.

Enjoying this leg as it unfolds, and Kenny's vid is compressing finally!


I can imagine not having to answer some of those for the gazillonth time. Read should be interesting.

Hopkins, the same one that was on DC's team, running their 12m testing sessions in Hawaii, back in '86-'87?

#133 Left Hook

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:20 AM

"Ballast Technician" strikes me as someone who would walk up to someone he doesn't know and call them an asshole, walk away, and brag to his friends how much of a hardass he is.

Great interview clean.


You would be wrong; he's one of the few people around here who actually knows what he's talking about and I enjoy picking things up by reading what he has to say.


Don't piss him off and give him reason to leave.

#134 Ballast Technician

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:33 AM




Getting Ian to call the boat a dog and outright support a 1d does not seem soft ball to me, but some of the people, some of the time, and all that. Least I could do was let him talk nice after talking shit ya know? 12 minutes all he had time for though, well see what u think of others. I like em and am usually my own worst critic


I agree, there was no soft ball. Asking him as you did why his boat was so slow offshore was the most interesting question you could ask. Well done, and great interview, with a good qulity sound, which is always a good bonus!


+1

And he was very quick to praise his guys. As a skipper, it must be tricky for him to keep the team together and you can't really expect him to destroy his team in public when his job is to keep it together. I am sure that on each boat there are tensions from time to time but if it goes too far it's easy enough to disembark a trouble maker.

+1
Dising Clean for not getting Ian to sell out his crew is a bit of a stretch. If at all that question should be asked after the finish in Galway. Well after.
And Clean said he might go to Ireland for the finish. Whether or not it's a question that has to be asked at all is debatable. Depends upon what school of journalism you prefer. No sense asking it now, though...



Are you deliberately mis-reading and -citing my post? My whole point was that if Clean had dug into the crew issue, Ian would have had a chance to give credit to his team and disspell some of the rumors floating around. In fact, I have been on record in this forum defending the ADOR team dynamics when others were talking smack and claiming that there were problems.

Cyrille Hydrogene and Panoramix have an excuse for misunderstanding what I wrote (not being native English speakers), but what is your agenda?

#135 Ballast Technician

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:38 AM




A bit disappointing, nothing we did not know already. Mostly just lobbing him a bunch of softballs and letting him off the hook on the tough issues. Ian does not need this kind of kid-glove treatment - he is a great guy and intense competitor. But that did not come through in the interview at all - instead it basically was just a platform for him to sweet-talk his sponsor and pass the buck.

Hope the other interviews have more substance.


"Ballast Technician" strikes me as someone who would walk up to someone he doesn't know and call them an asshole, walk away, and brag to his friends how much of a hardass he is.

Great interview clean.


Oh, I have called Ian an asshole more than once - usually when we had been drinking. I think he called me something similar, but it was difficult to make out given how badly he was slurring.
Of course, it helps that I do know him and have sailed on the same boat.

But hey, feel free to keep posting your valuable comments...

#136 bruno

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:49 AM

Closer to the finish the higher the pressure for the Azzam guys, just to get a decent leg result, obviously talented sailors, see their in port. For the Sanya crew it should be a lot looser, anything they get will be seen as overachieving.
Using the VR weather tool, it looks like if the fleet or any yacht fails to get in the low headed west then that's it for awhile, NA looks pretty quiet for the rest of the week near 38-40 d. I like the way the French are sailing, easy enough to say when their leading but i have appreciated their confidence all the way through. As noted they sail a lot of NA miles day day out.

#137 edelweis

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:00 AM

Using the VR weather tool, it looks like if the fleet or any yacht fails to get in the low headed west then that's it for a while....


Could work out for Groupama, if they make 400nm in the next 24 hrs.
Btw., supposed the boats arrive in Lisbon in the momentary order, Groupama is leading overall.

#138 Panoramix

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:33 AM

I think that the fleet is likely to regroup again. If Groupama were to catch the weather system ahead, they would litterally break away but a monohull may not be fast enough for this to happen..

#139 ripclaw

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:00 AM

Everybody else is slowly reeling Groupama in, and Abu Dhabi is mixing it up with the big boys. Good to see.

#140 Terrorvision

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:43 AM

Even Sanya's prowling.

#141 roca

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:46 AM

Everybody else is slowly reeling Groupama in, and Abu Dhabi is mixing it up with the big boys. Good to see.


how can they possibly be there with such a dog of a boat?
oh yes, of course, they manouvre and sail better than the others..

#142 Panoramix

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:35 PM


Everybody else is slowly reeling Groupama in, and Abu Dhabi is mixing it up with the big boys. Good to see.


how can they possibly be there with such a dog of a boat?
oh yes, of course, they manouvre and sail better than the others..


If there is more wind at the back a slower boat (within reason) will come back.

When one does handicap racing if a front of sea breeze comes from the back of the fleet, everybody gets to the downwind mark together and the small ratings win the race. I suppose it is pay back time for the small boats being smoked by the others the rest of the time.

#143 ~HHN92~

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:40 PM



Everybody else is slowly reeling Groupama in, and Abu Dhabi is mixing it up with the big boys. Good to see.


how can they possibly be there with such a dog of a boat?
oh yes, of course, they manouvre and sail better than the others..


If there is more wind at the back a slower boat (within reason) will come back.

When one does handicap racing if a front of sea breeze comes from the back of the fleet, everybody gets to the downwind mark together and the small ratings win the race. I suppose it is pay back time for the small boats being smoked by the others the rest of the time.


There are a few potholes along the way, but Groupama is well positioned.

#144 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:01 PM



#145 Panoramix

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:02 PM

There are a few potholes along the way, but Groupama is well positioned.


Indeed, they are in a position similar to Puma at the end of leg 5.

#146 Heriberto

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:33 PM

Hello Knut.

Are you listening to Ken?

"You can't lose the core sailing fans....the ones rabid about this sport.....". We are the ones who are telling our friends on Facebook to check out the videos. We are the ones explaining the sport to them. We are the ones who are preaching to the unconverted, and working in our companies and with our friends who are in leadership in their companies to convince them to be sponsors and gain exposure through our sport.

Are you listening VOR?

Just stick with the current damn boats. They are fine boats. The costs can be brought down and the robustness improved through a host of methods. They are fast enough to get around the track, they are a proven platform, they obviously offer close competition, and a new boat just brings an expensive set of new teething problems, and obviously it is the operating cost that is the big money, not the boat itself.

When Ken says "you can't lose the core sailing fans." you have to wonder if he isn't also saying "you can't lose the core sailing teams". You gotta dance with the ones who brung ya. People on the outside will always have a complaint why they aren't buying in, too expensive, too cheap, not one design, not enough innovation, too big, too small, too fast, too slow, too safe, too dangerous. Fuck them, money talks, bullshit walks. It's obvious given the improved media numbers that the product is good. If the existing teams are demanding a change, then so be it, but it sounds like the push is not coming from them, It sounds like it is coming from the tire-kickers and lookee-lous.

#147 dogwatch

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:55 PM

When Ken says "you can't lose the core sailing fans." you have to wonder if he isn't also saying "you can't lose the core sailing teams". You gotta dance with the ones who brung ya.


Which is the Siren song that's killed so many events and classes.This is the lowest VOR/Whitbread entry in history. More dancing partners are needed. Double the number.

#148 Heriberto

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:34 PM


When Ken says "you can't lose the core sailing fans." you have to wonder if he isn't also saying "you can't lose the core sailing teams". You gotta dance with the ones who brung ya.


Which is the Siren song that's killed so many events and classes.This is the lowest VOR/Whitbread entry in history. More dancing partners are needed. Double the number.


DId you hear about this thing that happened a few years ago when teams would have been forming? This financial apocolypse thingy?

Yeah. That.

#149 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:38 PM

Hello Knut.

Are you listening to Ken?

"You can't lose the core sailing fans....the ones rabid about this sport.....". We are the ones who are telling our friends on Facebook to check out the videos. We are the ones explaining the sport to them. We are the ones who are preaching to the unconverted, and working in our companies and with our friends who are in leadership in their companies to convince them to be sponsors and gain exposure through our sport.

Are you listening VOR?

Just stick with the current damn boats. They are fine boats. The costs can be brought down and the robustness improved through a host of methods. They are fast enough to get around the track, they are a proven platform, they obviously offer close competition, and a new boat just brings an expensive set of new teething problems, and obviously it is the operating cost that is the big money, not the boat itself.

When Ken says "you can't lose the core sailing fans." you have to wonder if he isn't also saying "you can't lose the core sailing teams". You gotta dance with the ones who brung ya. People on the outside will always have a complaint why they aren't buying in, too expensive, too cheap, not one design, not enough innovation, too big, too small, too fast, too slow, too safe, too dangerous. Fuck them, money talks, bullshit walks. It's obvious given the improved media numbers that the product is good. If the existing teams are demanding a change, then so be it, but it sounds like the push is not coming from them, It sounds like it is coming from the tire-kickers and lookee-lous.

I honestly think the push is coming from the financial guys behind the teams with actual money for the next race, who've said they will only do the next race if the boat costs X dollars. Read is not one of those guys. I like the piece on the front page today about possible future options and the Speed Dream thing. Not that anyone knows how that will all play out, but I favor one-design at least while the world sorts itself out. One thing is certain: At the end of every cycle since the VO70 was launched, cost-cutting measures were added to the Rule. And every race, the boats got more expensive and more prone to break. Something's gotta give. I could sense Kenny's frustration both in my interview and when we chatted days before at the fact that VOR organizers more or less ignored the cost-cutting measures he lays out in the interview during the process. But remember that each team has a representative on the board that came up with the recommendations.

Oh, and I forwarded the interview to Knut. He'll watch it, though I am sure he's heard it before from Ken.

#150 Heriberto

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:01 PM

Oh no. Stop us before we spend again!

OD VOR. What will they call it? The Reverse Clipper?

#151 roca

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:38 PM



Everybody else is slowly reeling Groupama in, and Abu Dhabi is mixing it up with the big boys. Good to see.


how can they possibly be there with such a dog of a boat?
oh yes, of course, they manouvre and sail better than the others..


If there is more wind at the back a slower boat (within reason) will come back.

When one does handicap racing if a front of sea breeze comes from the back of the fleet, everybody gets to the downwind mark together and the small ratings win the race. I suppose it is pay back time for the small boats being smoked by the others the rest of the time.


you must have misunderstood,
I was refferring to Abu dhabi who is sailing in the same wind and at almost same speed as telefonica for days now in this case as they were with others in other legs. It was meant ironic for the ian walker interview and his calling his boat a dog and pretending they could not sail close to others because of the boat. He also said that they could win in port because they sail so better than the others and that they can stay in front the other teams on short tracks even with the slowest boat.
My opinion is that the poor results are due mostly to the crew performance and navigation, and are therefore mostly his responsablity. I belive he owes some excuses to farr design.

#152 Wess

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:03 PM




Everybody else is slowly reeling Groupama in, and Abu Dhabi is mixing it up with the big boys. Good to see.


how can they possibly be there with such a dog of a boat?
oh yes, of course, they manouvre and sail better than the others..


If there is more wind at the back a slower boat (within reason) will come back.

When one does handicap racing if a front of sea breeze comes from the back of the fleet, everybody gets to the downwind mark together and the small ratings win the race. I suppose it is pay back time for the small boats being smoked by the others the rest of the time.


you must have misunderstood,
I was refferring to Abu dhabi who is sailing in the same wind and at almost same speed as telefonica for days now in this case as they were with others in other legs. It was meant ironic for the ian walker interview and his calling his boat a dog and pretending they could not sail close to others because of the boat. He also said that they could win in port because they sail so better than the others and that they can stay in front the other teams on short tracks even with the slowest boat.
My opinion is that the poor results are due mostly to the crew performance and navigation, and are therefore mostly his responsablity. I belive he owes some excuses to farr design.


He said, she said, blah, blah, blah...

The sailing has the potential to get really interesting. They NEED to make 400NM plus days for the next two and its possible and wow what a drag race its going to be all the way to the barn. Miss the highway entrance though and its a long slow ride. The Volvo tracker crystal ball shows them falling off. I don't think so...

#153 roca

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:24 PM

two thumbs up for ken and heriberto!

#154 dogwatch

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:37 PM

DId you hear about this thing that happened a few years ago when teams would have been forming? This financial apocolypse thingy?

Yeah. That.


Which, in all probability, is about to get worse. At least for European teams, which is two of your six.

#155 Heriberto

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:47 PM


DId you hear about this thing that happened a few years ago when teams would have been forming? This financial apocolypse thingy?

Yeah. That.


Which, in all probability, is about to get worse. At least for European teams, which is two of your six.



So we can put you down for the "Reverse Clipper"?

#156 dogwatch

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:07 PM

So we can put you down for the "Reverse Clipper"?


Hardly. The VOR isn't about to become pay-to-play.

#157 harzak

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:52 PM

Seriously though, if OD will vitalize the VOR, why not give it a go until the financial climate changes and then bring on the VOR 80.

I have no experience with box classes going OD, so can't say what it's going to do to the class. I will mourn that the paint job on the 2nd generation OD boats will be more interesting than their hull shape, even though I'm not really looking at the differences in hull shape as it is.

What I think is crazy is that the one design office that has really shined and completely ruled the VOR 70 class is not the one roumored to be brought forward to do the OD class. The only possible excuse why Juan K should not be given the OD design is if they're planning on using a pre-existing OD class.

Otherwise my feelings tell me that choosing a different design office completely lacks fairness and integrity. It casts shame on VOR.

#158 chicagosos

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:24 PM

This leg is insane - absolutely anyone's game.

What they really need to figure out is not the boat design but how to broadcast from the middle of the ocean.

#159 Panoramix

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:43 PM

you must have misunderstood,
I was refferring to Abu dhabi who is sailing in the same wind and at almost same speed as telefonica for days now in this case as they were with others in other legs. It was meant ironic for the ian walker interview and his calling his boat a dog and pretending they could not sail close to others because of the boat. He also said that they could win in port because they sail so better than the others and that they can stay in front the other teams on short tracks even with the slowest boat.
My opinion is that the poor results are due mostly to the crew performance and navigation, and are therefore mostly his responsablity. I belive he owes some excuses to farr design.


Almost same speed is slow enough to loose a race.

If you look at the tracker, he is slowly loosing ground to Telefonica.

#160 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:15 PM

This leg is insane - absolutely anyone's game.

What they really need to figure out is not the boat design but how to broadcast from the middle of the ocean.


They know how to do that. They just can't afford to. Stand by for later this week when I'll get my interview with Deppe up - we talk ALL about that.

#161 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:19 PM


you must have misunderstood,
I was refferring to Abu dhabi who is sailing in the same wind and at almost same speed as telefonica for days now in this case as they were with others in other legs. It was meant ironic for the ian walker interview and his calling his boat a dog and pretending they could not sail close to others because of the boat. He also said that they could win in port because they sail so better than the others and that they can stay in front the other teams on short tracks even with the slowest boat.
My opinion is that the poor results are due mostly to the crew performance and navigation, and are therefore mostly his responsablity. I belive he owes some excuses to farr design.


Almost same speed is slow enough to loose a race.

If you look at the tracker, he is slowly loosing ground to Telefonica.


It's pretty easy to see how it happens. I think people have a hard time understanding that a few hundredths of a knot deficit is barely noticeable on a 1 or 2 mile leg, but multiply that by a few hundred hours and it's a very different story.

#162 dlangpap

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:33 AM


you must have misunderstood,
I was refferring to Abu dhabi who is sailing in the same wind and at almost same speed as telefonica for days now in this case as they were with others in other legs. It was meant ironic for the ian walker interview and his calling his boat a dog and pretending they could not sail close to others because of the boat. He also said that they could win in port because they sail so better than the others and that they can stay in front the other teams on short tracks even with the slowest boat.
My opinion is that the poor results are due mostly to the crew performance and navigation, and are therefore mostly his responsablity. I belive he owes some excuses to farr design.


Almost same speed is slow enough to loose a race.

If you look at the tracker, he is slowly loosing ground to Telefonica.


Everyone loses ground to Telefonica...they have already caught GPMA. If they don't f...k up like in the last leg, they are very difficult to keep behind/catch and basically the race is theirs to lose.




#163 smackdaddy

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:48 AM

A final word on interviews; these guys are SO HAPPY to get to answer real questions from a sailor rather than the usual stuff they get from the vast majority of their interviewers, who always want to know the same shit. "Do you shower?" "What is the toilet like?" "Can you explain what eating freeze-dried food is like?" "What do you do when you're tired?" and so on. Plus, every one of them has been reading SA for years, and quite a few of them have shared a drink or seven with me (the Walker interview started off with us laughing about the last time we saw eachother in Alicante, but he sort of did a double take when he remembered this would get seen quite a lot and AD ain't into drinking...). So they ramble on, and I enjoy their openness, and before we know it, we're 10 or 15 minutes in and they have press conferences, local TV interviews, and so on. So I do my best, but every interview ends with me wanting another 5 questions. Specifically BT, it was on my list to talk about crew dynamics, the reported conflict aboard, and so on to run to. It was also on my list to sit down with Rob Greenhalgh, who is a friend, but we just never found time to make it happen. That's why my chat with Deppe was so great - we both looked up at the display that I had flipped over after a chat that seemed like maybe 15 minutes, and both said at the same time "shit!" when we saw it was already on 28 minutes. I also remembered a final video I did that is super interesting to the more geeky of us - with Robert Hopkins and the guys at Nortek that invented the Doppler Log (crazy knotmeter that measures leeway perfectly) and all its repercussions and advantages. Gonna take a couple days, but gold.

Enjoying this leg as it unfolds, and Kenny's vid is compressing finally!


I like what Ian had to say. The questions were pretty good in getting him to go there - especially about the OD issue. The only bitch I have is that you kept interrupting him with your wisecracks.

Let the interviewee talk for crying out loud - that's what we're interested in. Be more confident in your questions. If you're going to butt in, at least do it to crank 'em like the late Mike Wallace instead of trying to funny like Howie Mandel.

At the very least, spring for a couple of lapel mics so that you don't keep bogarting the handheld. It's annoying. Just sayin'.

(PS - the KR interview was much better in the regard. Great work.)

#164 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:15 AM


A final word on interviews; these guys are SO HAPPY to get to answer real questions from a sailor rather than the usual stuff they get from the vast majority of their interviewers, who always want to know the same shit. "Do you shower?" "What is the toilet like?" "Can you explain what eating freeze-dried food is like?" "What do you do when you're tired?" and so on. Plus, every one of them has been reading SA for years, and quite a few of them have shared a drink or seven with me (the Walker interview started off with us laughing about the last time we saw eachother in Alicante, but he sort of did a double take when he remembered this would get seen quite a lot and AD ain't into drinking...). So they ramble on, and I enjoy their openness, and before we know it, we're 10 or 15 minutes in and they have press conferences, local TV interviews, and so on. So I do my best, but every interview ends with me wanting another 5 questions. Specifically BT, it was on my list to talk about crew dynamics, the reported conflict aboard, and so on to run to. It was also on my list to sit down with Rob Greenhalgh, who is a friend, but we just never found time to make it happen. That's why my chat with Deppe was so great - we both looked up at the display that I had flipped over after a chat that seemed like maybe 15 minutes, and both said at the same time "shit!" when we saw it was already on 28 minutes. I also remembered a final video I did that is super interesting to the more geeky of us - with Robert Hopkins and the guys at Nortek that invented the Doppler Log (crazy knotmeter that measures leeway perfectly) and all its repercussions and advantages. Gonna take a couple days, but gold.

Enjoying this leg as it unfolds, and Kenny's vid is compressing finally!


I like what Ian had to say. The questions were pretty good in getting him to go there - especially about the OD issue. The only bitch I have is that you kept interrupting him with your wisecracks.

Let the interviewee talk for crying out loud - that's what we're interested in. Be more confident in your questions. If you're going to butt in, at least do it to crank 'em like the late Mike Wallace instead of trying to funny like Howie Mandel.

How old are you? Important to understand my audience.

#165 smackdaddy

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:23 AM



A final word on interviews; these guys are SO HAPPY to get to answer real questions from a sailor rather than the usual stuff they get from the vast majority of their interviewers, who always want to know the same shit. "Do you shower?" "What is the toilet like?" "Can you explain what eating freeze-dried food is like?" "What do you do when you're tired?" and so on. Plus, every one of them has been reading SA for years, and quite a few of them have shared a drink or seven with me (the Walker interview started off with us laughing about the last time we saw eachother in Alicante, but he sort of did a double take when he remembered this would get seen quite a lot and AD ain't into drinking...). So they ramble on, and I enjoy their openness, and before we know it, we're 10 or 15 minutes in and they have press conferences, local TV interviews, and so on. So I do my best, but every interview ends with me wanting another 5 questions. Specifically BT, it was on my list to talk about crew dynamics, the reported conflict aboard, and so on to run to. It was also on my list to sit down with Rob Greenhalgh, who is a friend, but we just never found time to make it happen. That's why my chat with Deppe was so great - we both looked up at the display that I had flipped over after a chat that seemed like maybe 15 minutes, and both said at the same time "shit!" when we saw it was already on 28 minutes. I also remembered a final video I did that is super interesting to the more geeky of us - with Robert Hopkins and the guys at Nortek that invented the Doppler Log (crazy knotmeter that measures leeway perfectly) and all its repercussions and advantages. Gonna take a couple days, but gold.

Enjoying this leg as it unfolds, and Kenny's vid is compressing finally!


I like what Ian had to say. The questions were pretty good in getting him to go there - especially about the OD issue. The only bitch I have is that you kept interrupting him with your wisecracks.

Let the interviewee talk for crying out loud - that's what we're interested in. Be more confident in your questions. If you're going to butt in, at least do it to crank 'em like the late Mike Wallace instead of trying to funny like Howie Mandel.

How old are you? Important to understand my audience.


7

Would you rather have an Anderson Cooper/Kevin Hart combo? Focus man! (Wait, Hart's funny. Nevermind.)

#166 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:35 AM

seventy-what?

#167 smackdaddy

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:45 AM

seventy-what?


Good lord, I'm having to speak up now?

Just spring for a lapel - and for the love of monkeys, don't make guys have to grab the handheld back from you to make their point. It's really simple.

Apart from that - good questions. Carry on.

#168 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:03 AM

I like the handheld. It works for the network news, it works for me.

#169 oioi

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:53 AM

1337749433[/url]' post='3723816']
I like the handheld. It works for the network news, it works for me.


Well if its critique cleans interview style day then i will have a goFor me the mirror shades need to go. You should be making eye contact with the person you are interviewing.Read can talk, so you dont have to. Nearly 50% of the interview with read is clean talking, to be honest im not interested in your lead into the questions, i understand the background, just fire the question ( the walker interview was much better in this regard ). Too much opinion from the interviewer and not enough from interviewee.Loose the upside down head look. I dont know if its common in the us, but to a brit it just looks slightly cultish/odd
Still having said this, its great to have some proper sailing conversations, keep up the good work and keep improving.

#170 Panoramix

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:35 AM

OMG.

You can see that the stakes are high, Groupama is being attacked North and South at the same time.

The telefonica move sounds a bit risky to me as they will end up being upwind of the fleet on a downwind leg.

How are we supposed to get some work done with so much drama? Can't they all just lineup behind Groupama, the Gallic fans are soon going to run out of nails to bite.

#171 harzak

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:22 AM

Why is Telefonica reportedly 2 knots faster than Groupama in 2 knots less wind?

And this all the while losing 0.2 nm in DTF. Something weird going on?

#172 onimod

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:31 AM

^ I don't think the figures are calibrated against each other too well.
I haven't seen anything confirming it but it looked like Tele lost their mast head gear while tackling Alberto.
They were missing figures for a while afterward.

#173 roca

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:43 AM



you must have misunderstood,
I was refferring to Abu dhabi who is sailing in the same wind and at almost same speed as telefonica for days now in this case as they were with others in other legs. It was meant ironic for the ian walker interview and his calling his boat a dog and pretending they could not sail close to others because of the boat. He also said that they could win in port because they sail so better than the others and that they can stay in front the other teams on short tracks even with the slowest boat.
My opinion is that the poor results are due mostly to the crew performance and navigation, and are therefore mostly his responsablity. I belive he owes some excuses to farr design.


Almost same speed is slow enough to loose a race.

If you look at the tracker, he is slowly loosing ground to Telefonica.


It's pretty easy to see how it happens. I think people have a hard time understanding that a few hundredths of a knot deficit is barely noticeable on a 1 or 2 mile leg, but multiply that by a few hundred hours and it's a very different story.


It is pretty easy to see that any 49er helmsman in the world is loosing tenths of knot from iker and xabi, and it is not a boat issue. Most imoca lost miles against them and nobody thought they had the fastest boat (which they had not). Abu dahbi have been gaining and loosing on other boats in many cases and it really does not seem to me they have a big speed issue. Or better they have a speed issue as the other teams in the long run are in front, but I think it is not a design issue,it is crew work, navigation, mood, time on the boat. What groupama should say? After the mast breakage they had often boats sailing almost 1 kn faster in same wind and could gain only on navigation. But is is probably a matter of how they sail, how they risk, how they trim and helm etc.

By thinking that they are better than the others but their boat is slower they loose more hundredths of knot than from design itself. That is a real brake. mood. And by saying it I think they are not very fair to other crews.
Very unexpected from an englishman.

#174 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:44 AM


I like the handheld. It works for the network news, it works for me.


Well if its critique cleans interview style day then i will have a goFor me the mirror shades need to go. You should be making eye contact with the person you are interviewing.Read can talk, so you dont have to. Nearly 50% of the interview with read is clean talking, to be honest im not interested in your lead into the questions, i understand the background, just fire the question ( the walker interview was much better in this regard ). Too much opinion from the interviewer and not enough from interviewee.Loose the upside down head look. I dont know if its common in the us, but to a brit it just looks slightly cultish/odd
Still having said this, its great to have some proper sailing conversations, keep up the good work and keep improving.


Appreciate the critique, though Ken speaks for 10m and i speak for 2.

#175 tamaozy

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:48 AM

OMG.

You can see that the stakes are high, Groupama is being attacked North and South at the same time.

The telefonica move sounds a bit risky to me as they will end up being upwind of the fleet on a downwind leg.

How are we supposed to get some work done with so much drama? Can't they all just lineup behind Groupama, the Gallic fans are soon going to run out of nails to bite.


I think Camper are screwed. They are 65miles south of Tele and they will all need to get north of the Azores to avoid the couple of highs IMHO. That is a fair bit of distance especially given Camper are at the weak end of the system and arent likely to see any increased wind speeds. As we all know it will change and I will be proven wrong but my 2bob.

#176 mosailn

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:50 AM

I like the handheld. It works for the network news, it works for me.


Nice work in South Beach, Kenny's innerview was solid..Ian's perspective is great but I like Kenny's thoughts on "system savings" and "parts" to reduce costs. Kenny nailed it about participation..love it. I would have been down there getting in the action with you but I am trying to sell my house in GA. Have fun in Newport.

Cheers!

#177 schakel

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:55 AM



you must have misunderstood,
I was refferring to Abu dhabi who is sailing in the same wind and at almost same speed as telefonica for days now in this case as they were with others in other legs. It was meant ironic for the ian walker interview and his calling his boat a dog and pretending they could not sail close to others because of the boat. He also said that they could win in port because they sail so better than the others and that they can stay in front the other teams on short tracks even with the slowest boat.
My opinion is that the poor results are due mostly to the crew performance and navigation, and are therefore mostly his responsablity. I belive he owes some excuses to farr design.


Almost same speed is slow enough to loose a race.

If you look at the tracker, he is slowly loosing ground to Telefonica.


Everyone loses ground to Telefonica...they have already caught GPMA. If they don't f...k up like in the last leg, they are very difficult to keep behind/catch and basically the race is theirs to lose.

Ha ha that was yesterday, Have you seen the new position where whiz Gammas takes first place?
I know who is going to win the next version of the VOR.(hopefully for them in mod 70's)

#178 Laurent

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 01:28 PM

A weird post by Yann Riou, the MCM on Groupama, today, on the French version of the Volvooceanrace site. He is pondering the option of going North, all the way to the ice gate!!! I did not even know there was an ice gate on this leg!

See below, with translation.

"
L’option d’une route très nord, qui flirte avec la porte des glaces - synonyme de froid - est toujours possible, mais pas certaine.

Cette porte des glaces se situe au-dessus du 43° N. Etonnant quand on pense que notre port d’attache, Lorient, se situe plus nord que cela. Et même si on ne va pas prétendre qu’il y fait beau et chaud toute l’année, on n’y croise pas beaucoup de glaçons. Au fond d’un verre à l‘heure de l’apéritif, tout au plus!

....

Alors, un petit tour dans ces eaux froides pour Groupama 4 dans les jours qui suivent ? Réponse d’ici peu.
"

<<
The option of a North route, getting close to the ice gate is still possible, but not certain. The ice gate is above 43° N, which is kind of surprising for us, since our home port, Lorient, is further North than that! Even if it is not warm weather all year round overthere, you rarely see ice, other than in your drink.

So a small detour for Groupama towards these cold waters?... You'll get the answer soon...
>>

So, real insight, or pure propaganda to mess up with your competition's mind?...

#179 Heriberto

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 01:48 PM

Sure looks like north is the way out. Camper doesn't agree.

#180 onimod

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 01:53 PM

Groupama blog in English

There is a also a VOR video from Will Oxley where he says the latest grib indicates that 'if you're slow you should head north".
That's what the tracker predictor is showing too.

#181 chicagosos

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 01:53 PM


This leg is insane - absolutely anyone's game.

What they really need to figure out is not the boat design but how to broadcast from the middle of the ocean.


They know how to do that. They just can't afford to. Stand by for later this week when I'll get my interview with Deppe up - we talk ALL about that.


Awesome, looking forward to that. I'm really interested to know how many people around the world actually watched all the livestream broadcasts and what the potential for advertising could be (aside from sponsored boats).

#182 couchsurfer

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 01:54 PM

...3 days into the leg and there's still 6 boats on the track :unsure: :blink: :rolleyes:

#183 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:12 PM



This leg is insane - absolutely anyone's game.

What they really need to figure out is not the boat design but how to broadcast from the middle of the ocean.


They know how to do that. They just can't afford to. Stand by for later this week when I'll get my interview with Deppe up - we talk ALL about that.


Awesome, looking forward to that. I'm really interested to know how many people around the world actually watched all the livestream broadcasts and what the potential for advertising could be (aside from sponsored boats).


FYI - they are experimenting today with the LiveX thing - every half hour, a live video chat with another boat. They're done for now, but it's very cool and you can find it here, just leave your browser open and you'll hear it pop up when they go live. We'll have the schedule on the front page tonight.

Go to the New VOR Boat thread to read my final report from Miami. Warning: Long story.

#184 valor

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:16 PM

A weird post by Yann Riou, the MCM on Groupama, today, on the French version of the Volvooceanrace site. He is pondering the option of going North, all the way to the ice gate!!! I did not even know there was an ice gate on this leg!

See below, with translation.

"
L'option d'une route très nord, qui flirte avec la porte des glaces - synonyme de froid - est toujours possible, mais pas certaine.

Cette porte des glaces se situe au-dessus du 43° N. Etonnant quand on pense que notre port d'attache, Lorient, se situe plus nord que cela. Et même si on ne va pas prétendre qu'il y fait beau et chaud toute l'année, on n'y croise pas beaucoup de glaçons. Au fond d'un verre à l'heure de l'apéritif, tout au plus!

....

Alors, un petit tour dans ces eaux froides pour Groupama 4 dans les jours qui suivent ? Réponse d'ici peu.
"

<<
The option of a North route, getting close to the ice gate is still possible, but not certain. The ice gate is above 43° N, which is kind of surprising for us, since our home port, Lorient, is further North than that! Even if it is not warm weather all year round overthere, you rarely see ice, other than in your drink.

So a small detour for Groupama towards these cold waters?... You'll get the answer soon...
>>

So, real insight, or pure propaganda to mess up with your competition's mind?...


If you zoom out on the Tracker, you can see the grey area of "Ice Limits". There are marks for the boundaries that can't be crossed, just not shown at this time.

#185 Panoramix

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:21 PM

Actually I've changed my mind, I think that Groupama may catch the weather system ahead. If that's the case it might be breakaway time!

#186 chicagosos

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:28 PM




This leg is insane - absolutely anyone's game.

What they really need to figure out is not the boat design but how to broadcast from the middle of the ocean.


They know how to do that. They just can't afford to. Stand by for later this week when I'll get my interview with Deppe up - we talk ALL about that.


Awesome, looking forward to that. I'm really interested to know how many people around the world actually watched all the livestream broadcasts and what the potential for advertising could be (aside from sponsored boats).


FYI - they are experimenting today with the LiveX thing - every half hour, a live video chat with another boat. They're done for now, but it's very cool and you can find it here, just leave your browser open and you'll hear it pop up when they go live. We'll have the schedule on the front page tonight.

Go to the New VOR Boat thread to read my final report from Miami. Warning: Long story.


Thanks for the heads up - didn't even think to check the Livesteam page at this point, just watched the interview with KR, awesome stuff.

#187 Heriberto

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:39 PM




This leg is insane - absolutely anyone's game.

What they really need to figure out is not the boat design but how to broadcast from the middle of the ocean.


They know how to do that. They just can't afford to. Stand by for later this week when I'll get my interview with Deppe up - we talk ALL about that.


Awesome, looking forward to that. I'm really interested to know how many people around the world actually watched all the livestream broadcasts and what the potential for advertising could be (aside from sponsored boats).


FYI - they are experimenting today with the LiveX thing - every half hour, a live video chat with another boat. They're done for now, but it's very cool and you can find it here, just leave your browser open and you'll hear it pop up when they go live. We'll have the schedule on the front page tonight.

Go to the New VOR Boat thread to read my final report from Miami. Warning: Long story.



I wish Livestream had a Samsung app so I could stream it on my DVD/TV.....

#188 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:07 PM

I wish Livestream had embeddable players. Silly as hell.

Then again, we still run our own front page on a platform from 6 years ago, so I guess I don't have too much to gripe about.

#189 victor t

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:11 PM

Sure looks like north is the way out. Camper doesn't agree.



camper gybed!

#190 dlangpap

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:21 PM




you must have misunderstood,
I was refferring to Abu dhabi who is sailing in the same wind and at almost same speed as telefonica for days now in this case as they were with others in other legs. It was meant ironic for the ian walker interview and his calling his boat a dog and pretending they could not sail close to others because of the boat. He also said that they could win in port because they sail so better than the others and that they can stay in front the other teams on short tracks even with the slowest boat.
My opinion is that the poor results are due mostly to the crew performance and navigation, and are therefore mostly his responsablity. I belive he owes some excuses to farr design.


Almost same speed is slow enough to loose a race.

If you look at the tracker, he is slowly loosing ground to Telefonica.


It's pretty easy to see how it happens. I think people have a hard time understanding that a few hundredths of a knot deficit is barely noticeable on a 1 or 2 mile leg, but multiply that by a few hundred hours and it's a very different story.


It is pretty easy to see that any 49er helmsman in the world is loosing tenths of knot from iker and xabi, and it is not a boat issue. Most imoca lost miles against them and nobody thought they had the fastest boat (which they had not). Abu dahbi have been gaining and loosing on other boats in many cases and it really does not seem to me they have a big speed issue. Or better they have a speed issue as the other teams in the long run are in front, but I think it is not a design issue,it is crew work, navigation, mood, time on the boat. What groupama should say? After the mast breakage they had often boats sailing almost 1 kn faster in same wind and could gain only on navigation. But is is probably a matter of how they sail, how they risk, how they trim and helm etc.

By thinking that they are better than the others but their boat is slower they loose more hundredths of knot than from design itself. That is a real brake. mood. And by saying it I think they are not very fair to other crews.
Very unexpected from an englishman.


Well, there are some pretty good sailors out there I would say. If Iker and Xabi are so great, give it up everybody!!...







#191 cathouse regular

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:23 PM

Ballsy move by CAMPER, heading north, but oh so painful to cross BEHIND the rest of the fleet, even the ill-fated SANYA

will it pay off? or did CAMPER set themselves up to trail the fleet into Lisbon? stay tuned...

#192 victor t

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:50 PM

Ballsy move by CAMPER, heading north, but oh so painful to cross BEHIND the rest of the fleet, even the ill-fated SANYA

will it pay off? or did CAMPER set themselves up to trail the fleet into Lisbon? stay tuned...


i guess all boats will eventually gybe and camper was logically the first to do so

#193 armchairair

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:00 PM

I wish Livestream had embeddable players. Silly as hell.

Then again, we still run our own front page on a platform from 6 years ago, so I guess I don't have too much to gripe about.


From my daughter who seems to know about these things:

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Livestream does have embeddable players - they're just hard to find.
You have to click on that little paper airplane thingy under the post. When you do, up pops the permalink/embed options or a choice to share on FB/etc.
Lvestream/VOR may disable embedding for the Live shows - but who cares, just use the YouTube embed.
Unless he's talking about embedding the whole livestream shabang - videos/photos/audio...but that would be very complicated...

#194 Pierre S

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:20 PM

Sure looks like north is the way out. Camper doesn't agree.


They heard you and are willing to change their mind. They were bleeding miles versus the leaders anyway, so probably not such a bad gamble for them to take.

#195 clamslapper

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:35 PM

Why didn't Camper stay on port gybe and get north? It makes no sense to me. They actually had the right idea. The pack is steaming directly toward the Azores High. Can someone who knows something about all this comment?

#196 couchsurfer

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:42 PM

Why didn't Camper stay on port gybe and get north? It makes no sense to me. They actually had the right idea. The pack is steaming directly toward the Azores High. Can someone who knows something about all this comment?


...way t'consolidate your position <_<
..I can't remember a time that Campa's actually made a ballsy move -and- stayed with it :unsure:

#197 A Florida Redneck

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:32 PM


Why didn't Camper stay on port gybe and get north? It makes no sense to me. They actually had the right idea. The pack is steaming directly toward the Azores High. Can someone who knows something about all this comment?


...way t'consolidate your position <_<
..I can't remember a time that Campa's actually made a ballsy move -and- stayed with it :unsure:


To be fair, Camper cutting that island in the Bahamas was very ballsy, don't you think?
They even filmed it. Also ballsy....

#198 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:40 PM


I wish Livestream had embeddable players. Silly as hell.

Then again, we still run our own front page on a platform from 6 years ago, so I guess I don't have too much to gripe about.


From my daughter who seems to know about these things:

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Livestream does have embeddable players - they're just hard to find. You have to click on that little paper airplane thingy under the post. When you do, up pops the permalink/embed options or a choice to share on FB/etc. Lvestream/VOR may disable embedding for the Live shows - but who cares, just use the YouTube embed. Unless he's talking about embedding the whole livestream shabang - videos/photos/audio...but that would be very complicated...


Please go to the livestream page and have her post a the code to embed one of the videos here. I have been known to be 'slow' at times.

#199 Mexican

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:29 PM



Why didn't Camper stay on port gybe and get north? It makes no sense to me. They actually had the right idea. The pack is steaming directly toward the Azores High. Can someone who knows something about all this comment?


...way t'consolidate your position <_<
..I can't remember a time that Campa's actually made a ballsy move -and- stayed with it :unsure:


To be fair, Camper cutting that island in the Bahamas was very ballsy, don't you think?
They even filmed it. Also ballsy....

Back on port gybe now. Obviously still playing the shifts a bit on their way north. They've got breeze more out of the west than the rest of the fleet; hence the gybe.

Mex

#200 Dixie

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:37 PM

http://new.livestrea.../videos/1179921

<iframe src='http://cdn.livestrea...owShare=false&#38;showLike=fal' width='560' height='315' frameborder=0 scrolling=no></iframe>


Here's an attempt based on the above directions using both of the links that the little airplane icon below the frame offers. Pretty sure neither works...




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