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#1 sailsandsales

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 06:15 PM

I have a set of 1/8th inch wire shrouds for my thistle that are practically brand new. I purchased some sta-masters that need a forked end. I'm wondering if it's possible to cut off the eye fitting and Swage on a fork. The throw of the sta-master and height of the chain plate give me plenty of space. I asked a local rigging shop and was rudely told no they needed to make new. I think they were thinking that I needed the old end removed and new fitting put on keeping the length the same and I couldn't get the lady to listen to me when I tried to explain that's not the case. Is there something here I'm not understanding? I'd gladly take an explanation of why that won't work.

Thanks

#2 Shaggy

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 06:19 PM

Check out the local small plane airport and find a mechanic. I bet they will do it for you cheap. If you have plenty or room all they are out is a $5 part and the electricity it takes to fire up the industrial swager..... Don't put up with crap service......

#3 casc27

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 06:45 PM

Check out the local small plane airport and find a mechanic. I bet they will do it for you cheap. If you have plenty or room all they are out is a $5 part and the electricity it takes to fire up the industrial swager..... Don't put up with crap service......


Wow, I've never seen plane, mechanic and cheap in the same sentence before!

#4 Shaggy

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 06:54 PM

Same with anything marine....

#5 LakeBoy

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:14 PM

If I were in the business, I'd be tempted to have a policy of only new as well. Putting a fitting onto an old shroud of unknown condition you are likely to get the blame for a failure even if it wasn't the fault of the fitting or workmanship.

Were you at the shop or on the phone. Maybe swinging by with shroud and fittings in hand to talk with the rigger (assuming the lady you spoke to was not the rigger) may yield different results.

#6 Major Tom

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:13 PM

Of course you can shorten the shrouds, I do it often with zero failures. The piece of wire doesn.t know that it has been shortened so where is the problem? Obviously, if the wire is old and there are signs of oxidation(rust) around the exit points of the swaging then I would not re use the wire, but if everything is in good shape then I would not hesitate to do the job, and I would guarantee my work as well. Don't be conned into having a complete set of new shrouds made up.

#7 Dsyme

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:25 AM

My problem is much the same, but with 5/32" and 3/16" wire for a 30 footer. I'm converting to a fractional rig and although I have carefully laid out everything I want to use the shortened shrouds for the first year to get precise measurements and then get new ones next year. The wire is 316 and in great shape with no problems of any kind at the terminals I want to keep. I've used dye and a magnifying glass and they look great.

No one in southern central Connecticut will swedge new terminals on my wire probably because of the liability issue. The small airport idea sounds interesting, but can't imagine that they will have dies for 5/32 or 3/16". I don't want to use Norseman type fittings because of the expense for a single year and they're kinna clunky. Anybody know of other professions that need to swedge stuff?

Would it be the worst idea in the world to use wire rope clips (5 per splice) and cover them with shroud rollers? Is this stupid beyond belief?

Duncan

#8 bammiller

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:59 AM

My problem is much the same, but with 5/32" and 3/16" wire for a 30 footer. I'm converting to a fractional rig and although I have carefully laid out everything I want to use the shortened shrouds for the first year to get precise measurements and then get new ones next year. The wire is 316 and in great shape with no problems of any kind at the terminals I want to keep. I've used dye and a magnifying glass and they look great.

No one in southern central Connecticut will swedge new terminals on my wire probably because of the liability issue. The small airport idea sounds interesting, but can't imagine that they will have dies for 5/32 or 3/16". I don't want to use Norseman type fittings because of the expense for a single year and they're kinna clunky. Anybody know of other professions that need to swedge stuff?

Would it be the worst idea in the world to use wire rope clips (5 per splice) and cover them with shroud rollers? Is this stupid beyond belief?

Duncan

Im not exactly understanding why you want to replace the shrouds in a year, anyway. Why not just get it done now, all at once and not have to think about it again. A rigger isnt going to charge you 5.00 to swage a piece of wire. To stay in business, they are likely billing $100/hour. Isnt that what you would charge, if that was the way you made a living?

As yourself - s it that they don't want to do it or that the 100.00 is too expensive? What if that 100.00 was a quarter of the whole job? What is standing in the way with just getting it done?

If you don't have the time or money to do it right (especially on 5/32" and 3/16" wire) the first time, where are you going to find the time and money to do it all over again? Wire rope clips shouldn't even a consideration.

Rant over. Just surprises me that people insist on re-inventing the wheel.

Bam Miller

#9 kgw

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 02:23 PM

Dyneema or Dux? Wouldn't be too expensive in the size you are using.

#10 Foolish

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 03:11 PM

I've even had 10+ year old rod rigging shortened. When the old turnbuckles completely seized, we cut them off and put on longer turnbuckles, and re-mushroomed the old rod shrouds. (Now I keep my turnbuckles lightly greased)

#11 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:20 PM

My problem is much the same, but with 5/32" and 3/16" wire for a 30 footer. I'm converting to a fractional rig and although I have carefully laid out everything I want to use the shortened shrouds for the first year to get precise measurements and then get new ones next year. The wire is 316 and in great shape with no problems of any kind at the terminals I want to keep. I've used dye and a magnifying glass and they look great.

No one in southern central Connecticut will swedge new terminals on my wire probably because of the liability issue. The small airport idea sounds interesting, but can't imagine that they will have dies for 5/32 or 3/16". I don't want to use Norseman type fittings because of the expense for a single year and they're kinna clunky. Anybody know of other professions that need to swedge stuff?

Would it be the worst idea in the world to use wire rope clips (5 per splice) and cover them with shroud rollers? Is this stupid beyond belief?

Duncan


So I saw your other post re: shortening an old Stearns Twinstay by about 30". And you're creating a frac rig out of the existing MH for what kind of boat? Sounds like a lot of work on an obviously pretty old horse.

#12 Dsyme

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 03:32 AM

First, the boat is a custom S & S Yawl 1961 that I have totally restored--decks, hull, rig you name it. As I mentioned in another site, although I carefully laid out the old and new locations of the mast tangs, I forgot one key ingredient. I failed to measure the amount of thread used in the turnbuckle body prior to removing the rig last fall. Therefore I can really only guess about length. The uppers and lowers had different turnbuckle engagements and they were even different from port to starboard, but I can't remember which was which. Any photos I have show the turnbuckles all taped up to protect the cotter pins, so that's no help at all. The idea was to come up with a solution for this year that would allow me to get precise measurements for next year. I could easily commission a new full set of shrouds only to find that some either did not have adequate thread engagement or were 'two blocked' with not enough take-up room. So the price issue is only based on temps. Since I already have essentially zero stretch wire, I don't see an advantage in switching to dyneema for an intermediate solution.

What would you guys do?

Duncan

#13 extrad

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:26 PM


My problem is much the same, but with 5/32" and 3/16" wire for a 30 footer. I'm converting to a fractional rig and although I have carefully laid out everything I want to use the shortened shrouds for the first year to get precise measurements and then get new ones next year. The wire is 316 and in great shape with no problems of any kind at the terminals I want to keep. I've used dye and a magnifying glass and they look great.

No one in southern central Connecticut will swedge new terminals on my wire probably because of the liability issue. The small airport idea sounds interesting, but can't imagine that they will have dies for 5/32 or 3/16". I don't want to use Norseman type fittings because of the expense for a single year and they're kinna clunky. Anybody know of other professions that need to swedge stuff?

Would it be the worst idea in the world to use wire rope clips (5 per splice) and cover them with shroud rollers? Is this stupid beyond belief?

Duncan

Im not exactly understanding why you want to replace the shrouds in a year, anyway. Why not just get it done now, all at once and not have to think about it again. A rigger isnt going to charge you 5.00 to swage a piece of wire. To stay in business, they are likely billing $100/hour. Isnt that what you would charge, if that was the way you made a living?

As yourself - s it that they don't want to do it or that the 100.00 is too expensive? What if that 100.00 was a quarter of the whole job? What is standing in the way with just getting it done?

If you don't have the time or money to do it right (especially on 5/32" and 3/16" wire) the first time, where are you going to find the time and money to do it all over again? Wire rope clips shouldn't even a consideration.

Rant over. Just surprises me that people insist on re-inventing the wheel.

Bam Miller


As Bam says why re-invent the wheel.

Use Norseman fittings on the base of the existing shrouds and forestay (You can buy just the wire termination part/ threaded part that screws into the existing bottlesecrews.) When you replace the wire part in the future you just need to buy new cones to go inside the fittings.

You are supposed to replace the insert cones each time but I would be very tempted not to while you are in the adjustment phase if you rig hasn't seen big winds. I Shortened a rig on a 35' one off some years ago due to cracks in the base of the mast - essentially cut 3" of the bottom of the mast and rigging and re-terminated 10 shrouds (Yes a strange rig) and one forestay with new insert cones using the original Norseman Gibb terminals. I still have the removed inserts somewhere that look identical to the new ones we put in.

#14 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:58 PM

First, the boat is a custom S & S Yawl 1961 that I have totally restored--decks, hull, rig you name it. As I mentioned in another site, although I carefully laid out the old and new locations of the mast tangs, I forgot one key ingredient. I failed to measure the amount of thread used in the turnbuckle body prior to removing the rig last fall. Therefore I can really only guess about length. The uppers and lowers had different turnbuckle engagements and they were even different from port to starboard, but I can't remember which was which. Any photos I have show the turnbuckles all taped up to protect the cotter pins, so that's no help at all. The idea was to come up with a solution for this year that would allow me to get precise measurements for next year. I could easily commission a new full set of shrouds only to find that some either did not have adequate thread engagement or were 'two blocked' with not enough take-up room. So the price issue is only based on temps. Since I already have essentially zero stretch wire, I don't see an advantage in switching to dyneema for an intermediate solution.

What would you guys do?

Duncan


I should have included this question with the last one. How and why are you converting this to a fractional rig?

#15 Dsyme

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 03:18 PM

How and why? Well let's start with the how as there is less subjectivity there.

How--The boat had a straight extruded mast when I got her which I sawed down 12' from the truck in a curving wedge, taking out about 1 1/2" at the top to nothing at the bottom. Wow! At this point the 12 feet was so floppy that I figured I had ruined the spar and would have to start all over again. I built a 20' long truss strongback which I hose clamped to the sail track to make sure that it was straight. Intermediate hose clamps around just the mast were at three foot intervals keeping the two halves of the spaghetti perfectly aligned. Then built a tower of cross braced wood with a horizontal roller at the top in between a couple of cheek pieces slightly wider apart that the spar. Tower is pasted to trailer. A huge swivel pad with side cheek pieces is tossed up on the roof rack at the front of the VW bus and the whole 40' long train is driven 75 miles to the mast guy who perfectly welds said item and adds a beautiful shaped crane/truck to accept the tangs built exactly the way spruce spars were done 75 years ago. Also get sheave boxes for halyards and new pad eye for the fractional forestay. It looks fantastic. The backstay goes into the new masthead crane tang. I cut new upper tangs out of 316 and install them at the new forestay location with compression sleeves and bolts according to the instructions of the mast guy. This is 36" down from the top of the spar. I fill the old spreader base mounting holes and reinstall them 13" lower. Oh, and by the way faux spruce the mast while I'm at it. This is a classic Sparkman and Stephens design from the 60's when real boats were wood, yawls and had wood spars. Which is the why.

Why--Well, I'm and old fart and grew up admiring these graceful craft, many of whom had fractional rigs before the masthead big genny boats became the vogue in the 60's and later. So I just want it as the boat seems to look better to me that way in the scale drawings and models I have made. Jumper struts--I know I'm immediately going to get blasted for this issue. What are you going to do about them? First, I'll try without, but add them if needed. Bolero at 72 feet originally was built without them and so I'll see. She had a true 7/8th rig and I will have closer to a 10/11ths ratio. I'm adding dyneema or some such wizardly line as runners anyway as there is also a new inner jib stay 3' aft of the forestay to cary reachers plus a yankee and all that good 60's rag inventory. Oh yes, the sails are all miter cut.

Any other questions besides why I'm such an alpha hotel?

Duncan

p.s. Think I might have found a friendly boat yard that will squish some new terminals on my shrouds for me, but if that fails I will still need a plan B--Thoughts on that score?

#16 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 04:11 PM

Man, pretty impressive project. I guess my only concern would be a. welding such an old piece of aluminum and b. the welding effort removing the 'temper' from the AL.
Tapering and welding masthead spars is a lot less critical than the same project in an unsupported section. Typically those welds undergo some preheat/postheat process to reintroduce the strength into the spar. It sounds like you're pretty 'retentive' ;) about this project so likely you have considered all this and discussed it with the welder. I hope you can find someone to squeeze the terminals for you. Show us some pics when you're done.

#17 Dsyme

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:12 PM

Mr. Fixit or are you the brother?--I have been called a huge amount of things during my wanderings, but 'retentive'? I guess that I'd prefer to think 'crazed'. Anywho, The guys that did all the mast work for me were Metal Mast in Putnam, Connecticut. They were amazing people who even built a complete boat at one time. Sadly, they have succumbed to whatever good and fascinating companies that provide real service, technical knowhow and reasonable prices succumb to. Their main business for years was taking extrusions of their own design, tapering them, adding all the necessary hardware and generally building custom or replacement masts. Maybe in this cookie cutter world there just aren't enough 'custom' projects anymore. The real 'custom' guys all want sticks made from that stuff that's # 14 on the periodic table which they left up to Hall et al. You are right about the need to be very careful about the welding on a spar and when I asked them if they could fill the holes left by the old spreaders, they deferred saying the less welding the better. They did treat their taper weld somehow, but I wasn't there at the time and so am not exactly sure what the process was.

This was supposed to be a 3 year fix-up-sell-and move up project, but that was18 years ago and I still find endless 'modifications' and projects to fry my skull. Here's a web site that explains it all.
http://retrogasm.tum...line-of-zombies

Last year's biggie was to put Dynel on the decks to simulate canvas. The reason that it took 17 years to do that was 100% of the decks needed to be recored and then there were the toe rails and...................... Looks fantastic and is a great nonskid material. New varnished teak winch bases for primaries and secondaries get slapped onto the coamings this year as well as the fractional rig. Two years ago I built my own electric head for $175. Ladies love it and NO odor as it's now fresh water since there is only a pint plus per flush. Do it! You will get big points with the gals (and guys).

Duncan

#18 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:33 PM

HaHa OK we'll use 'crazed'.. :)I could use some brains now and then too! Big thumbs up using a true spar builder for the retrofit. Lot's of respect for Metal Mast in the past, sorry to hear they drank the Kool-Aid. Good luck and would still like to see some pics when you're done.

#19 Remodel

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:39 PM

How and why? Well let's start with the how as there is less subjectivity there.

How--The boat had a straight extruded mast when I got her which I sawed down 12' from the truck in a curving wedge, taking out about 1 1/2" at the top to nothing at the bottom. Wow! At this point the 12 feet was so floppy that I figured I had ruined the spar and would have to start all over again. I built a 20' long truss strongback which I hose clamped to the sail track to make sure that it was straight. Intermediate hose clamps around just the mast were at three foot intervals keeping the two halves of the spaghetti perfectly aligned. Then built a tower of cross braced wood with a horizontal roller at the top in between a couple of cheek pieces slightly wider apart that the spar. Tower is pasted to trailer. A huge swivel pad with side cheek pieces is tossed up on the roof rack at the front of the VW bus and the whole 40' long train is driven 75 miles to the mast guy who perfectly welds said item and adds a beautiful shaped crane/truck to accept the tangs built exactly the way spruce spars were done 75 years ago. Also get sheave boxes for halyards and new pad eye for the fractional forestay. It looks fantastic. The backstay goes into the new masthead crane tang. I cut new upper tangs out of 316 and install them at the new forestay location with compression sleeves and bolts according to the instructions of the mast guy. This is 36" down from the top of the spar. I fill the old spreader base mounting holes and reinstall them 13" lower. Oh, and by the way faux spruce the mast while I'm at it. This is a classic Sparkman and Stephens design from the 60's when real boats were wood, yawls and had wood spars. Which is the why.

Why--Well, I'm and old fart and grew up admiring these graceful craft, many of whom had fractional rigs before the masthead big genny boats became the vogue in the 60's and later. So I just want it as the boat seems to look better to me that way in the scale drawings and models I have made. Jumper struts--I know I'm immediately going to get blasted for this issue. What are you going to do about them? First, I'll try without, but add them if needed. Bolero at 72 feet originally was built without them and so I'll see. She had a true 7/8th rig and I will have closer to a 10/11ths ratio. I'm adding dyneema or some such wizardly line as runners anyway as there is also a new inner jib stay 3' aft of the forestay to cary reachers plus a yankee and all that good 60's rag inventory. Oh yes, the sails are all miter cut.

Any other questions besides why I'm such an alpha hotel?

Duncan

p.s. Think I might have found a friendly boat yard that will squish some new terminals on my shrouds for me, but if that fails I will still need a plan B--Thoughts on that score?

You can usually find a rigger that will - if the wire looks OK - swage on new terminals on a cash-only, under-the-table, I-don't-know-you, and you-were-never-here basis.

That said, if the wire is over 10 years old, you really shouldn't consider re-using it. Now then, even though the rig is down, it shouldn't be any real problem to take a series of measurements and create a scale drawing that will give you the actual measurements to within 1/2 inch plus or minus. I used to do that for customers all the time back in the day when they had lost a rig or were building a boat from scratch.

#20 Boudicca

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 01:52 PM

I'm very surprised at idea that steel shrouds have to be under ten years old. Aircraft that are 50+ years old are flying with original control cables. Putting on new ones is a hassle as they stretch to a more or less final length. Since this is a component that will kill everyone if it goes wrong, folks tend to take a hard look at them. The inspection criteria is mechanical condition - no frayed or cut strands, consistent smoothness, etc.
An aircraft mechanic can do this for you, but I'd set an appointment and have it done while you wait. I've dealt with these chaps for decades and I've known several that need a ton of coaching to get things done.

#21 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 02:17 PM

I'm very surprised at idea that steel shrouds have to be under ten years old. Aircraft that are 50+ years old are flying with original control cables. Putting on new ones is a hassle as they stretch to a more or less final length. Since this is a component that will kill everyone if it goes wrong, folks tend to take a hard look at them. The inspection criteria is mechanical condition - no frayed or cut strands, consistent smoothness, etc.
An aircraft mechanic can do this for you, but I'd set an appointment and have it done while you wait. I've dealt with these chaps for decades and I've known several that need a ton of coaching to get things done.


Nothing personal but "Fuck off Newb!" Now that that's out of the way.

Typically marine terminals collect seawater down amongst the strands inside the swage at deck level. It's an ideal spot for corrosion to occur and not be noticeable. 10 years is certainly a rule of thumb gauge for replacement. If you're very thorough in your maintenance, or sail in primarily fresh water that number can be extended considerably. 1X19 Stainless wire is very different than the 7X19 Galvanized or IPS cable that would be used on aircraft control cables. It's much more brittle but also stretches less.

#22 Dsyme

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 11:53 AM

I agree with FB. The salt marine environment is very different from an exposed vintage aircraft cable that is flown maybe a few hundred hours a year in good weather and hangered. The boat will sit on the mooring, if unused from Memorial Day until October 15th in New England--longer in Florida and SanFran which is 3553.2 hours--give or take. Much of this time, as the stinkpotters throw a headless wake in the harbor or the wind riles up, the boat is rolling and putting a variety of impact loads on the terminals. Now, if a fella goes sailing!!!!!!!!! Loads on terminals while sailing especially when it kicks up and we really need to get a reef in, but it's only a couple more hours and 'I don't think it'll get any worse'--it does--are immense and varied in all three axises unlike the aircraft that really only sees a direct tension load of fairly standard set of parameters. Look up crevice corrosion on Google and see how some outwardly almost invisible issues have completely demolished the fitting on the inside. That said, my current standing rigging that I'm putting a one year only temp swedge terminal on is 30 years old that I know of.
Duncan

#23 Dsyme

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 10:36 PM

PS. As I said in other posts, I check the terminals every year with UV dye and a serious magnifying glass. These 30? year old shrouds will be for this 8 week season only and then the rigger gets to give(?) me a brand new set. The only reason I would consider new terminals on old wire is strictly for a limited season and checking the lengths.

Duncan

#24 Boudicca

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 01:37 PM

1339251423[/url]' post='3744456']

1339249942[/url]' post='3744431']
I'm very surprised at idea that steel shrouds have to be under ten years old. Aircraft that are 50+ years old are flying with original control cables. Putting on new ones is a hassle as they stretch to a more or less final length. Since this is a component that will kill everyone if it goes wrong, folks tend to take a hard look at them. The inspection criteria is mechanical condition - no frayed or cut strands, consistent smoothness, etc.
An aircraft mechanic can do this for you, but I'd set an appointment and have it done while you wait. I've dealt with these chaps for decades and I've known several that need a ton of coaching to get things done.


Nothing personal but "Fuck off Newb!" Now that that's out of the way.

Typically marine terminals collect seawater down amongst the strands inside the swage at deck level. It's an ideal spot for corrosion to occur and not be noticeable. 10 years is certainly a rule of thumb gauge for replacement. If you're very thorough in your maintenance, or sail in primarily fresh water that number can be extended considerably. 1X19 Stainless wire is very different than the 7X19 Galvanized or IPS cable that would be used on aircraft control cables. It's much more brittle but also stretches less.


Hey Fixit - try rethinking your fucked up response. But wait, that may require THINKING which may be especially difficult for you. Nothing personal tho.
If you re-read the thread the topic , itis about shortening shrouds. Your comment about hidden corrosion doesn't play since shortening shrouds involves cutting them. When they are cut, the integrity of the material will be fully exposed at which time the assessment of its seaworthiness can be made.
As you were.

#25 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:09 PM

1339251423[/url]' post='3744456']

1339249942[/url]' post='3744431']
I'm very surprised at idea that steel shrouds have to be under ten years old. Aircraft that are 50+ years old are flying with original control cables. Putting on new ones is a hassle as they stretch to a more or less final length. Since this is a component that will kill everyone if it goes wrong, folks tend to take a hard look at them. The inspection criteria is mechanical condition - no frayed or cut strands, consistent smoothness, etc.
An aircraft mechanic can do this for you, but I'd set an appointment and have it done while you wait. I've dealt with these chaps for decades and I've known several that need a ton of coaching to get things done.


Nothing personal but "Fuck off Newb!" Now that that's out of the way.

Typically marine terminals collect seawater down amongst the strands inside the swage at deck level. It's an ideal spot for corrosion to occur and not be noticeable. 10 years is certainly a rule of thumb gauge for replacement. If you're very thorough in your maintenance, or sail in primarily fresh water that number can be extended considerably. 1X19 Stainless wire is very different than the 7X19 Galvanized or IPS cable that would be used on aircraft control cables. It's much more brittle but also stretches less.


Hey Fixit - try rethinking your fucked up response. But wait, that may require THINKING which may be especially difficult for you. Nothing personal tho.
If you re-read the thread the topic , itis about shortening shrouds. Your comment about hidden corrosion doesn't play since shortening shrouds involves cutting them. When they are cut, the integrity of the material will be fully exposed at which time the assessment of its seaworthiness can be made.
As you were.


Nothing fucked up here, someone commented (not me) that 10 years is the 'rule of thumb' recommended limit for shroud life. You questioned why and I told you what the basic reason is. You might also want to look at the wire at the upper terminals and any bends over spreader tip etc. All these places can experience lateral movement which can work harden the stainless steel. Here's Brian Toss's view that if you can't proof-test your wire every 10 years (3-5 in southern climes) you should replace it. But what do I know ;)

#26 Boudicca

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:34 PM

So you realize the question was about shortening shrouds on a Thistle in Rochester, NY. To expand your incredible knowledge base this is a dinghy slightly over 17' with 1/8" shrouds on a boat that weighs just over 500 lbs. Take a look at any map of New York, and you'll see Rochester NY is to the west of the Atlantic ocean, so the salt water aspect of shroud life doesn't apply here. If you've ever seen stainless steel shrouds in fresh water, you'll note that they last for years. Most Thistles will be taken in the winter; with fresh water, part of the year use that dinghy's have, your crap is all about you and nothing about the facts of this post.

Your quote of Homer Simpson is the one extremely accurate self assessment that is spot on. And that's an extremely witty use of a Posted Image. Try this one from a newbie Posted Image

#27 Dsyme

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 06:04 PM

Newbi--The wire itself may last for much longer than the ten years that Brian Toss recommends, although as Mr. Fixit and or his brother (not sure exactly here who is who) says and is correct, there could very easily be issues where the wire is stressed at the spreader. You state that the integrity of the wire can be ascertained at the cut, but that doesn't tell you what is going on fro the other 30 or 40 feet. If you look back at one of my earlier posts, you'll see the comment about hidden crevice corrosion that can happen deep within the fitting where it can't be seen and simply cutting it off doesn't mean that there won't be similar stuff going on at the other end. You are right that this thread is about shortening shrouds, which typically means cutting off one end only. If you're going to cut off both ends and put all the money and effort into old wire, it just doesn't make any sense. Why spend $200 and not know if your $1800 mast might come down when for $300 you will be sure.


To put and end to all of this in relating to my initial inquiry--Here's the summary.
Yes, you can find a guy who will swage new fittings on old wire. However, he won't be very happy about it and will be even unhappier if you bring the new terminals to him. They could be non spec rejects that an employee lifted from the scrap bin or whatever. In addition he makes no money on that part of the transaction. So by the time that you buy new terminals through him at much higher prices than you will see on line, plus pay for the swaging to say nothing of driving to East Overshoe to his place of business, it's now big bucks. So I bought some Norseman fittings on line with free shipping, no traveling, no waiting time. NEXT YEAR, HOWEVER THERE WILL BE ALL NEW STANDING RIGGING.


Thanks for all your thoughts guys.


Duncan


Ps. Brian Toss is THE guy. On a challenge, he invented an 'icicle hitch' where the pull of the line in parallel to the icicle and toward the point. If you are building a full scale replica of THERMOPYLAE he is the only guy to consider.

#28 Dsyme

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 06:11 PM

Newbie--Not sure quite why you feel so hostile, but check out post #7 on this thread. Every post after that one dealt with my 30' yawl which live is salt water in New England.

Duncan

#29 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 01:36 PM

Newbi--The wire itself may last for much longer than the ten years that Brian Toss recommends, although as Mr. Fixit and or his brother (not sure exactly here who is who) says and is correct, there could very easily be issues where the wire is stressed at the spreader. You state that the integrity of the wire can be ascertained at the cut, but that doesn't tell you what is going on fro the other 30 or 40 feet. If you look back at one of my earlier posts, you'll see the comment about hidden crevice corrosion that can happen deep within the fitting where it can't be seen and simply cutting it off doesn't mean that there won't be similar stuff going on at the other end. You are right that this thread is about shortening shrouds, which typically means cutting off one end only. If you're going to cut off both ends and put all the money and effort into old wire, it just doesn't make any sense. Why spend $200 and not know if your $1800 mast might come down when for $300 you will be sure.


To put and end to all of this in relating to my initial inquiry--Here's the summary.
Yes, you can find a guy who will swage new fittings on old wire. However, he won't be very happy about it and will be even unhappier if you bring the new terminals to him. They could be non spec rejects that an employee lifted from the scrap bin or whatever. In addition he makes no money on that part of the transaction. So by the time that you buy new terminals through him at much higher prices than you will see on line, plus pay for the swaging to say nothing of driving to East Overshoe to his place of business, it's now big bucks. So I bought some Norseman fittings on line with free shipping, no traveling, no waiting time. NEXT YEAR, HOWEVER THERE WILL BE ALL NEW STANDING RIGGING.


Thanks for all your thoughts guys.


Duncan


Ps. Brian Toss is THE guy. On a challenge, he invented an 'icicle hitch' where the pull of the line in parallel to the icicle and toward the point. If you are building a full scale replica of THERMOPYLAE he is the only guy to consider.



Sounds like you got it licked with a sound solution. I hope you get to enjoy some of the sailing season up there. Will you now reuse the Norseman's on the new rigging or just keep em in your backup box?

#30 Dsyme

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:11 PM

Mr. Fixit et al
No, they'll go into the box of crap that 's too good to throw away, but will hang around forever 'cause who want's to risk their rig on a used norseman? Might drop them off at Sam's in Wickford to see it there's a sucker. I really want the full swaged new stuff to be 100% from the rigger. Maybe Newbie wants them to throw at someone.

Duncan




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