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Wake etiquette


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#1 kdh

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:22 PM

Sailors like flat water with wind to propel them.

"Yachting" magazine inexplicably started sending me magazines and I noticed a table for a new powerboat with gallons per hour against speed. It was breathtaking. It seemed obvious that above displacement speeds there is a huge cost--and not just fuel but environmental damage and reducing others' enjoyment of the water.

Pushing all this water is arguably inconsiderate. I, though rarely, experience a reduction of powerboat speed in my vicinity to acknowledge this. Is there a reasonable expectation for slowing down?

#2 Joli

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:53 PM

No

#3 SemiSalt

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:59 PM

Designers going back to William Atkin and LFH have shown off long, lean powerboats that use less gas. No one pays attention (except other designers) and the boats keep getting fatter and fatter.

#4 blackjenner

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:13 PM

I think the expectation is only reasonable if one assumes people driving such powerboats aren't overpopulated with self-important jackasses.

Yes, there are respectful power boaters. They do exist.

Unfortunately, they tend to be overshadowed by others.

For example: there is the owner of Christopher C. who barged through/past a bunch of sailboats waiting to enter the small lock in Seattle. His wife/woman/partner on the bow telling people to "get the fuck our of the way" as they simply steamed through the boats in queue, to get to their slip just on the other side of the locks.

#5 kdh

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:16 PM

On my wish list would be that powerboaters would be mindful of their wake and slow down in tight channels or otherwise when pushing a big wake close to me is particularly inconsiderate. This has happened to me, though almost never.

#6 Cruisin Loser

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:24 PM

A few years ago I took my mom and a couple of other folks in their 80's out for a daysail on Narragansett Bay. We were off Colt State Park when a big, 60-70', deep vee Hunt type motor yacht, dark blue, NYYC burgee came churning up the nearby channel. A respectful distance off, they slowed to displacement speed, passed us with no wake, waved, and brought her back up to a plane and took off. There are some classy motor boats and owners out there.

#7 Oxygen Mask

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:03 PM

There is a reason many firearms come in stainless steel...

#8 Tucky

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:08 PM

In Maine, at least, and i think it is actually maritime law, you are responsible for your wake. Folks have been sued for spilling coffee on someone else's boat going by.

Portland has a specific no-wake zone that allows the tankers and tugs coming in to keep a high enough speed to turn in the outer harbor, but once they are going straight past the docks it is headway speed.

I'm not a fan of lawsuits and figure if I'm in open water it is rude but not actionable. I'll get more belligerent in an anchorage.

Of course I don't like speed limits- I can easily exceed them and throw no wakePosted Image

#9 Greever

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 09:59 AM

When SevenSundays was in SanDiego, we got nailed by a Grand Banks 42 twin several times out on the Bay. Same guy at the helm every time, same happy wave every time.......



I think most of them are oblivious to their wake.


PS: I don't know if it was the way he set his trim, but he sent a fucking six feet trough at us. It must have been exciting for the smaller boats he encountered. :o

#10 69sail

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 01:53 PM

Having grown up in Long Island Sound and experienced first-hand the idiot factor I can safely say that they have no, and nor do they care to, have a clue about their wake inconsideration.

However I now cruise and race Buzzards Bay/Islands and find that for the most part it is a much better and different story around here. Perhaps its that many ex-sailors have bought quality powerboats (i.e. non boat-show boats) and get it.

But...when I head to Newport its like a magic line somewhere near Sakonnet...the LIS idiot factor starts ramping up again.

#11 Bob Perry

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 02:18 PM

Here is a very efficient 42'er I did. It's an unusual boat and I don't think there is much mass market apeal.

Attached Files



#12 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 04:06 PM

I've had various powerboat "captains" tell me something like: "You guys sail in the ocean, it has waves. We make waves for you, get over it." Frequently with a few "bad" words tossed in. We do sail in the ocean with large waves around, but we know they're coming. Now, on the Sacramento river delta we just assume we're going to have to stow the boat for 5-6 foot tall bumps, they'll show up sometime.

I am much more concerned about being hit by some idiot towing a wake boarder at 20k while driving looking backwards with the music blaring than I am about wakes.

Bob, some years ago George Griffith (the owner of the first L-36 and first Cal-40) decided he wasn't up to sailing and did a long thin power boat. It is really quite wonderful to watch move throughout the water. It really reminds me of what you would have done if someone like ND had said that he wanted a power boat with the dimensions of Catarí. Since seeing Catarí evolve, I'm semi-seriously considering have a boat like her but designed as a powerboat. Then I realize that I'm going to have grandchildren and they'll need strings to pull on and I go back to have a mast on her.

I'll try to find a picture of George's powerboat, it's really wonderful. Has a small turbo diesel aboard and goes back and forth from Long Beach to Catalina Island burning about 3/4 of a gallon an hour at 14k if I remember right.

BV

#13 歐開倫

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 04:12 PM

Here is a very efficient 42'er I did. It's an unusual boat and I don't think there is much mass market apeal.


That is beautiful. The lines, the ports, the color. Really unusual and sharp. Nice!

#14 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 04:19 PM

Found it. The article is HERE. It's a Michael Peter's design and I got a few deals wrong (it has two engines)

Relevant Quote:

A: The boat I really want to get is a boat I designed in 1986 for a guy named George Griffith (see photo, Page 21). It’s a 48-foot ULDB — ultra light displacement boat. It’s only got an 11-foot beam, but weighs 14,000 pounds and, with a pair of 145-hp diesels, runs 26 knots. This boat is absolutely perfect for the Intracoastal because at 18 to 20 knots it leaves hardly any wake. I keep waiting for George to sell it to me. But George is now 88 years old and still dives to scrub the bottom of his own boat. So he’s one of these guys who will never sell. I will just have to deal with things after the fact. He and his wife are the same age and use the boat all the time. It’s a really terrific story in a boat that has been well-loved and well-used.

This article originally appeared in the July 2009 issue.


This thing, going along at 20 knots with no wake is awfully appealing.

BV

#15 CruiserJim

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 04:48 PM

I accept that they don't care about their wakes, I just wish they wouldn't try to run me down. Several times in the last few years between Catalina and Long Beach, me under sail between 4 and 7 knots, big ass powerboat at warp factor 2 won't even bump the autopilot a couple degrees right or left to miss me. This is in daytime, no (valid) excuse for not seeing me.

#16 blackjenner

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 08:14 PM

I've had various powerboat "captains" tell me something like: "You guys sail in the ocean, it has waves. We make waves for you, get over it."


BV


Well, there are fish on the ocean and lakes too. Sometimes they jump into your boat when you are away. Get over it. :)

#17 Steam Flyer

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 08:21 PM


I've had various powerboat "captains" tell me something like: "You guys sail in the ocean, it has waves. We make waves for you, get over it."


BV


Well, there are fish on the ocean and lakes too. Sometimes they jump into your boat when you are away. Get over it. :)


Bricks, too

No kidding, I have beaned motorboaters as they came by within ten feet of us. But then, in my wild mis-spent youth I was a lot more confrontational.
:rolleyes:

A really good way to tame the assholes is to videotape them. Make sure they see you, and radio them that a copy of the video is going to the USCG local office.

As I see it, there are two problems: one is that a lot of motorboaters truly don't know what their wake does, it happens a long way behind them. All they know is that other boaters are assholes that are mad at them for no reason!

The other problem is the lack of consequences. We can do something about that but it will also take some support from courts, eventually. In a world where people sue the Coast Guard because they themselves cannot navigate around a jetty, I am less hopeful.

Eventually, the cost of fuel will get the stupider ones out of the picture.

FB- Doug

#18 SailAR

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:33 PM

I think this goes under the phrase "if stupidity were a crime, there would be a jail on every street corner"

Unfortunately there are many sailors who fall into the same category. Watched a guy in a Catalina try and sail up the channel in a shifty, gusty northerly last weekend. Rounded up twice in the narrow channel, nearly taking out another sailboat first, and a powerboat the second time. Problem is generally powerboats go faster and throw more wake,but sailors can be just as dangerous.

#19 Jose Carumba

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:06 AM

There is a waterway where I live which is lined with public docks and marinas. It is posted as a no wake zone at the entrance. It amazes me how many peoole in their bloat-o-boats come screaming up to the entrance and then slow to "hump" speed as they go into the waterway so they are making the biggest wake possible with their boats. They mush along at that speed for an eighth of a mile or so before slowing completely down. They don't realize their wakes carry on amd wreak havoc on the moored boats for quite a ways. Idiots.

#20 tigger12

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:53 AM

On the brighter side ... at a lake in Algonquin Park (Ontario) where my wife's family has a cottage ... powerboaters (max hp 9.9) almost always slow down for canoes in close quarters.

#21 Tom Ray

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:19 AM

Sailors like flat water with wind to propel them.

"Yachting" magazine inexplicably started sending me magazines and I noticed a table for a new powerboat with gallons per hour against speed. It was breathtaking. It seemed obvious that above displacement speeds there is a huge cost--and not just fuel but environmental damage and reducing others' enjoyment of the water.

Pushing all this water is arguably inconsiderate. I, though rarely, experience a reduction of powerboat speed in my vicinity to acknowledge this. Is there a reasonable expectation for slowing down?


It depends where you are, whether the powerboat driver has a clue, and whether he is a jerk.

In Dade County waters where I grew up, the general answer is no, there is not. You can expect a clueless jerk.

Where I live now, the general answer is yes. They see me in a kayak and slow to max wake speed and wave cheerfully as they go by. They don't understand that I would rather they just plane on by and get out of my life more quickly. That would be considered very rude here.

I keep hoping they will start looking back occasionally when they drive and realize that when the bow is pointed high in the air, they are making a huge mess back there. No joy so far.

#22 Tom Ray

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:30 AM

I can't believe they let boats go fast on our cross state waterway, but it is a pretty dull canal at any speed, so people like to get it over with.

They'll slow down for boats under way. Those at the dock are expected to just deal with it. This wake was made by a 40something foot fast trawler. I took the pic just for you guys.

Posted Image

#23 Nessun Dorma

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:15 PM

I live on a narrow creek off the Chesapeake that has a weekend posted speed limit of 6. Monday through Fridays there is no posted limit. Not only do big ass displacement boats barrel though, but about five years ago their were six or seven boats that regularly came during the week to tube, wake board and ski in figure eights for hours on end. Often within 50 feet of docks and around moored boats. The tubers and boarders actually created large wakes for tubing fun. A lot of yelling and a few fights broke out. We petitioned the state for a permanent speed limit but for some inexplicable reason they said no. Not sure who voted against it or why they got a vote.

Anyway, in a case of dangerous but amusing self help, two of my neighbors for about a year used pellet guns to shoot at the towed passengers and shot bottle rockets at the boats from concealed positions. My personal favorite was the time a water balloon filled with red dye was lobbed into a the frint seat of a ski boat when it continually came within thirty feet of my neighbors pier, which they often did. direct hit. The marine police came and tried to collect information and arrested the boy who did it but he was under 18 so it never went anywhere and he became a hero. But after 12 months the regular boats stopped using the creek as their playground.

We are re-petitioning this year again. It makes no sense to me to have a weekend limit. If its bad on weekends to go over 6 why is it ok on Monday to Friday? Yes everyone is responsible for their wake, but few people know or care.

#24 sailSAK

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 03:00 PM

I've had a powerboater tell me that they enjoy watching sailboats hit their wake.

#25 kimbottles

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:20 PM

1338049163[/url]' post='3728161']
Found it. The article is HERE. It's a Michael Peter's design and I got a few deals wrong (it has two engines)

Relevant Quote:

A: The boat I really want to get is a boat I designed in 1986 for a guy named George Griffith (see photo, Page 21). It's a 48-foot ULDB — ultra light displacement boat. It's only got an 11-foot beam, but weighs 14,000 pounds and, with a pair of 145-hp diesels, runs 26 knots. This boat is absolutely perfect for the Intracoastal because at 18 to 20 knots it leaves hardly any wake. I keep waiting for George to sell it to me. But George is now 88 years old and still dives to scrub the bottom of his own boat. So he's one of these guys who will never sell. I will just have to deal with things after the fact. He and his wife are the same age and use the boat all the time. It's a really terrific story in a boat that has been well-loved and well-used.

This article originally appeared in the July 2009 issue.


This thing, going along at 20 knots with no wake is awfully appealing.

BV


Beau, I would like more information about that vessel if you have it. I am starting to plan the ultimate power boat, a project after the Sliver project. KimB

#26 Tom Ray

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:34 AM

I live on a narrow creek off the Chesapeake that has a weekend posted speed limit of 6. Monday through Fridays there is no posted limit. Not only do big ass displacement boats barrel though, but about five years ago their were six or seven boats that regularly came during the week to tube, wake board and ski in figure eights for hours on end. Often within 50 feet of docks and around moored boats. The tubers and boarders actually created large wakes for tubing fun. A lot of yelling and a few fights broke out. We petitioned the state for a permanent speed limit but for some inexplicable reason they said no. Not sure who voted against it or why they got a vote.

Anyway, in a case of dangerous but amusing self help, two of my neighbors for about a year used pellet guns to shoot at the towed passengers and shot bottle rockets at the boats from concealed positions. My personal favorite was the time a water balloon filled with red dye was lobbed into a the frint seat of a ski boat when it continually came within thirty feet of my neighbors pier, which they often did. direct hit. The marine police came and tried to collect information and arrested the boy who did it but he was under 18 so it never went anywhere and he became a hero. But after 12 months the regular boats stopped using the creek as their playground.

We are re-petitioning this year again. It makes no sense to me to have a weekend limit. If its bad on weekends to go over 6 why is it ok on Monday to Friday? Yes everyone is responsible for their wake, but few people know or care.


From the other side...

Before all the Johnny Come Lately's showed up, virtually no boats were ever seen on the creek here. It was pretty much my private creek. Sometimes, I used it for skiiing. I went whatever speed I wanted to go. When skiiing, that means around 35 knots.

Now there are more people, and on the weekends it is likely there will be other boat traffic. I don't go fast on the weekends any more. Weekdays? It's kind of like the old days, when I did what I wanted to do. ;)

And by the way, there is nothing amusing about shooting people with pellet guns. I have kicked kids off the property for pointing them in the wrong direction. If people are legally boating, shooting them is not at all appropriate or funny, even if you don't like them or the current rules. I would have been inclined to return fire, but with a real gun. That's why it's not funny.

#27 Nessun Dorma

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:35 AM

Tom, I don't disagree that shooting boaters with pelet guns is dangerous and not appropriate. But that doesn't mean it can't be amusing as well. you at least live on the creek you were skiing in. These boats don't. They come to a quiet place where the homes and piers are crowded together, where people live and have boats at piers and retaining walls, and they intentionally create large waves that crash boats into one another and break up the shoreline. That makes no more sense on weekdays than on weekends. Posted speed limits and going slow isn't to protect boats from each other when its crowded. but for wake. Our river is pretty crowded M-F, and hat's why a weeklend limit is so senseless.

As far as the good old days, they're gone. I grew up on a very quiet river in the 1960s and early 70s. About four homes on one entire side of an entire large river to its headwaters, and a large farm on the other.As kids and teens we owned that river. We swam, sailed, crabbed, fished and when we felt like it we went water skiing and when we did we went very fast and made a wake. We took model navy ships we'd built and tossed cherry bombs and ND80s at them. And we swam at nightin the middle of the river.

Today that creek has hundreds of little homes packed in on each side and hndreds of boats at hundreds of piers. there are hundreds of little kids playing and swimming around the piers, and that all happens every day, not just weekends.So its not like the good old days. We need to share the water and we need to be responsible for our wake and our actions. When we aren't, someone may shoot us with a pellet gun. ;)


I live on a narrow creek off the Chesapeake that has a weekend posted speed limit of 6. Monday through Fridays there is no posted limit. Not only do big ass displacement boats barrel though, but about five years ago their were six or seven boats that regularly came during the week to tube, wake board and ski in figure eights for hours on end. Often within 50 feet of docks and around moored boats. The tubers and boarders actually created large wakes for tubing fun. A lot of yelling and a few fights broke out. We petitioned the state for a permanent speed limit but for some inexplicable reason they said no. Not sure who voted against it or why they got a vote.

Anyway, in a case of dangerous but amusing self help, two of my neighbors for about a year used pellet guns to shoot at the towed passengers and shot bottle rockets at the boats from concealed positions. My personal favorite was the time a water balloon filled with red dye was lobbed into a the frint seat of a ski boat when it continually came within thirty feet of my neighbors pier, which they often did. direct hit. The marine police came and tried to collect information and arrested the boy who did it but he was under 18 so it never went anywhere and he became a hero. But after 12 months the regular boats stopped using the creek as their playground.

We are re-petitioning this year again. It makes no sense to me to have a weekend limit. If its bad on weekends to go over 6 why is it ok on Monday to Friday? Yes everyone is responsible for their wake, but few people know or care.


From the other side...

Before all the Johnny Come Lately's showed up, virtually no boats were ever seen on the creek here. It was pretty much my private creek. Sometimes, I used it for skiiing. I went whatever speed I wanted to go. When skiiing, that means around 35 knots.

Now there are more people, and on the weekends it is likely there will be other boat traffic. I don't go fast on the weekends any more. Weekdays? It's kind of like the old days, when I did what I wanted to do. ;)

And by the way, there is nothing amusing about shooting people with pellet guns. I have kicked kids off the property for pointing them in the wrong direction. If people are legally boating, shooting them is not at all appropriate or funny, even if you don't like them or the current rules. I would have been inclined to return fire, but with a real gun. That's why it's not funny.



#28 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:36 PM

I live on a narrow creek off the Chesapeake that has a weekend posted speed limit of 6. Monday through Fridays there is no posted limit. Not only do big ass displacement boats barrel though, but about five years ago their were six or seven boats that regularly came during the week to tube, wake board and ski in figure eights for hours on end. Often within 50 feet of docks and around moored boats. The tubers and boarders actually created large wakes for tubing fun. A lot of yelling and a few fights broke out. We petitioned the state for a permanent speed limit but for some inexplicable reason they said no. Not sure who voted against it or why they got a vote.

Anyway, in a case of dangerous but amusing self help, two of my neighbors for about a year used pellet guns to shoot at the towed passengers and shot bottle rockets at the boats from concealed positions. My personal favorite was the time a water balloon filled with red dye was lobbed into a the frint seat of a ski boat when it continually came within thirty feet of my neighbors pier, which they often did. direct hit. The marine police came and tried to collect information and arrested the boy who did it but he was under 18 so it never went anywhere and he became a hero. But after 12 months the regular boats stopped using the creek as their playground.

We are re-petitioning this year again. It makes no sense to me to have a weekend limit. If its bad on weekends to go over 6 why is it ok on Monday to Friday? Yes everyone is responsible for their wake, but few people know or care.


ND

Make sure your facts are unassailable when at the hearing. I attended one last year for two local creeks. No real argument for one. Speed limit was unchanged. Only time there is a problem is when sailors anchor in the middle of the open water where residents take their kids tubing and wake boarding.

The second creek is relatively wide and long. Residents brought videotapes and pulled out all the stops. Unfortunately their claims of severe erosion we're refuted by the state and their facts of someone getting knocked off a boat and drowning were refuted by the DNR Police. DNR will also speak to numbčr of complaints and tickets given out. One bitchy asshole will not have any effect as they will speak to regular complaints from one individual. You might meet with the DNR Police and ask them to step up enforcement this summer. If they see a problem, they will be an ally at the hearing.

Chase down the waterways commissioner from your area. They are long time boaters and worry about the impact of their decisions on the boating public.

I see both sides. I don't like big wakes hitting my dock or my boat when sailing. I do want reasonably protected water where I can take my kids wake boarding or tubing. I try to be considerate and will get off the water if it gets too crowded.

As to dye packs and pellet guns? You guys are playing with fire and have a lot to lose if somebody wants to escalate. Think Whale Wars style escalation.

#29 Timo42

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:37 PM

I was waked by a douchebag right at the entrance to the MDR channel yesterday, asshole came flying through 4 or 5 sailboats and chopped power right at the breakwater. Happens all the time, If the radio is handy, I like to name and shame on 16, others complain of "apparent" drunk drivers on the water, that always gets a response from the Harbor Patrol.
Then there is this clueless idiot http://northridge.pa...g-shell-in-half I saw them strapping the remains on the top of a truck as I launched.

#30 kdh

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 01:08 PM

I was out in Narragansett bay the last two days and thinking of this.

All in all people were reasonably courteous more often than not. In one case one of those big white powerboats slowed down between me and a lobster boat. I was impressed. Unfortunately he ended up much too close to the lobstermen (one was actually a woman), and they were pissed and yelled as much. It seemed like an honest mistake to me, and their speed was slow, but not quite displacement, so they were pushing more water than they thought.

#31 Nessun Dorma

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 01:32 PM

just so you guys dont think im a whackjob vigilante let me clear: i understand that shooting people in the ass with bb guns is wrong, dangerous and could lead to sever criminal penalties and financial exposure. but i nontheless find it an amusing example of self help.

i feel like im not expressing my issue well. my first point is that a weekend only speed limit makes no sense to me. either the creek is oo narrow, too populated and has too many moorings or it doesnt. by establishing the limit for weekends and holidaysit seems to me the state has admitted that going over 6 is an issu. once thats admitted restricting it to a few days simply makes no sense.

my second point is that we all are resonsible for our wake and there are restrictions as to how close to a designated swimming beach or piling or a moored boat you can ski. on our creek its almost impossible to create a responsible wake or not get too close to a piling , swimmers or moored boat. and that doesnt even count the kayakers and little kids in sunfish. its just not an area anyone should be travelling at 30 mph in circles. the problem is the marine police are stretched too thin and so enforcing the responsiblw\e wake limits would mean a series of nuisance lawsuits.

i guess i just think its obvious that my creek should have a speed limit, but thats probably because i live there and am not sensitive to peoples right to ski in my back yard.


I live on a narrow creek off the Chesapeake that has a weekend posted speed limit of 6. Monday through Fridays there is no posted limit. Not only do big ass displacement boats barrel though, but about five years ago their were six or seven boats that regularly came during the week to tube, wake board and ski in figure eights for hours on end. Often within 50 feet of docks and around moored boats. The tubers and boarders actually created large wakes for tubing fun. A lot of yelling and a few fights broke out. We petitioned the state for a permanent speed limit but for some inexplicable reason they said no. Not sure who voted against it or why they got a vote.

Anyway, in a case of dangerous but amusing self help, two of my neighbors for about a year used pellet guns to shoot at the towed passengers and shot bottle rockets at the boats from concealed positions. My personal favorite was the time a water balloon filled with red dye was lobbed into a the frint seat of a ski boat when it continually came within thirty feet of my neighbors pier, which they often did. direct hit. The marine police came and tried to collect information and arrested the boy who did it but he was under 18 so it never went anywhere and he became a hero. But after 12 months the regular boats stopped using the creek as their playground.

We are re-petitioning this year again. It makes no sense to me to have a weekend limit. If its bad on weekends to go over 6 why is it ok on Monday to Friday? Yes everyone is responsible for their wake, but few people know or care.


ND

Make sure your facts are unassailable when at the hearing. I attended one last year for two local creeks. No real argument for one. Speed limit was unchanged. Only time there is a problem is when sailors anchor in the middle of the open water where residents take their kids tubing and wake boarding.

The second creek is relatively wide and long. Residents brought videotapes and pulled out all the stops. Unfortunately their claims of severe erosion we're refuted by the state and their facts of someone getting knocked off a boat and drowning were refuted by the DNR Police. DNR will also speak to numbčr of complaints and tickets given out. One bitchy asshole will not have any effect as they will speak to regular complaints from one individual. You might meet with the DNR Police and ask them to step up enforcement this summer. If they see a problem, they will be an ally at the hearing.

Chase down the waterways commissioner from your area. They are long time boaters and worry about the impact of their decisions on the boating public.

I see both sides. I don't like big wakes hitting my dock or my boat when sailing. I do want reasonably protected water where I can take my kids wake boarding or tubing. I try to be considerate and will get off the water if it gets too crowded.

As to dye packs and pellet guns? You guys are playing with fire and have a lot to lose if somebody wants to escalate. Think Whale Wars style escalation.



#32 6924

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 02:55 PM

My sense is most powerboaters are sensible and considerate but they simply have no idea

#33 Steam Flyer

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:16 PM

just so you guys dont think im a whackjob vigilante let me clear: i understand that shooting people in the ass with bb guns is wrong, dangerous and could lead to sever criminal penalties and financial exposure. but i nontheless find it an amusing example of self help.

... ...

i guess i just think its obvious that my creek should have a speed limit, but thats probably because i live there and am not sensitive to peoples right to ski in my back yard.



As to dye packs and pellet guns? You guys are playing with fire and have a lot to lose if somebody wants to escalate. Think Whale Wars style escalation.


Couple points- ND, if it's navigable water then it's not really your back yard. However there are strong laws in place about speed & wake within given distance of docks, swimmers, and other boats... here in NC it's 100 ft... and the state Wildlife Dept is pretty good about enforcing this in our area and they're not shy about piling on additional charges especially BUI. I have seen them hand a $500 ticket to a jerk pulling a tube with no rear-view mirror.

Pellet guns... it's a warning, and not a bad one. Tom R who you gonna shoot back at? "Something moving in the bushes" ?? congrats you just killed my neighbors cat. Meanwhile whoever popped you is dialing 911 about a sniper in a boat. Talk your way out of that one, especially if they're taking video of you.

On a somewhat more serious note- Before employing any firearm over the water, one needs to think VERY carefully about ricochet. Bullets carry their velocity a LONG way over the water. I've thought about making up some steel rounds especially for plinking outboards of offending motorboaters, but it's just not worth the risk.

A couple lengths of that cheap floating poly-pro rope would be a pretty effective "area denial" tool.

The good old days are gone. The world is a lot more crowded now. That means yes, we do need to find ways to get along. However that does not mean I need to learn to tolerate assholish behavior.

Escalation? Bring it... I have a meaner big brother and a better lawyer!


FB- Doug (yes, I -am- a vigilante whackjob, although one with a strong conscience)

#34 Nessun Dorma

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:29 PM

technicallly yes of course our creek is navigable water, but its less than 500 feet across at its widest and closer to 300 in most places, and only a half NM long, with moored boats about 1/3 way up to the headwaters and three community beaces full of kids. most piers are 45 feet into the water, so yes you can keep 100 feet from piers if you do tight figure eights and are careful. Its a quiet place and habitat to heron and a lot of ducks, so while I appreciate its not really my back yard, its just a damned odd place to come ski.


just so you guys dont think im a whackjob vigilante let me clear: i understand that shooting people in the ass with bb guns is wrong, dangerous and could lead to sever criminal penalties and financial exposure. but i nontheless find it an amusing example of self help.

... ...

i guess i just think its obvious that my creek should have a speed limit, but thats probably because i live there and am not sensitive to peoples right to ski in my back yard.



As to dye packs and pellet guns? You guys are playing with fire and have a lot to lose if somebody wants to escalate. Think Whale Wars style escalation.


Couple points- ND, if it's navigable water then it's not really your back yard. However there are strong laws in place about speed & wake within given distance of docks, swimmers, and other boats... here in NC it's 100 ft... and the state Wildlife Dept is pretty good about enforcing this in our area and they're not shy about piling on additional charges especially BUI. I have seen them hand a $500 ticket to a jerk pulling a tube with no rear-view mirror.

Pellet guns... it's a warning, and not a bad one. Tom R who you gonna shoot back at? "Something moving in the bushes" ?? congrats you just killed my neighbors cat. Meanwhile whoever popped you is dialing 911 about a sniper in a boat. Talk your way out of that one, especially if they're taking video of you.

On a somewhat more serious note- Before employing any firearm over the water, one needs to think VERY carefully about ricochet. Bullets carry their velocity a LONG way over the water. I've thought about making up some steel rounds especially for plinking outboards of offending motorboaters, but it's just not worth the risk.

A couple lengths of that cheap floating poly-pro rope would be a pretty effective "area denial" tool.

The good old days are gone. The world is a lot more crowded now. That means yes, we do need to find ways to get along. However that does not mean I need to learn to tolerate assholish behavior.

Escalation? Bring it... I have a meaner big brother and a better lawyer!


FB- Doug (yes, I -am- a vigilante whackjob, although one with a strong conscience)



#35 hard aground

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:28 PM

I've had a powerboater tell me that they enjoy watching sailboats hit their wake.

Did you enjoy watching him double over when you booted him in the nuts?

#36 hard aground

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:30 PM

technicallly yes of course our creek is navigable water, but its less than 500 feet across at its widest and closer to 300 in most places, and only a half NM long, with moored boats about 1/3 way up to the headwaters and three community beaces full of kids. most piers are 45 feet into the water, so yes you can keep 100 feet from piers if you do tight figure eights and are careful. Its a quiet place and habitat to heron and a lot of ducks, so while I appreciate its not really my back yard, its just a damned odd place to come ski.



just so you guys dont think im a whackjob vigilante let me clear: i understand that shooting people in the ass with bb guns is wrong, dangerous and could lead to sever criminal penalties and financial exposure. but i nontheless find it an amusing example of self help.

... ...

i guess i just think its obvious that my creek should have a speed limit, but thats probably because i live there and am not sensitive to peoples right to ski in my back yard.



As to dye packs and pellet guns? You guys are playing with fire and have a lot to lose if somebody wants to escalate. Think Whale Wars style escalation.


Couple points- ND, if it's navigable water then it's not really your back yard. However there are strong laws in place about speed & wake within given distance of docks, swimmers, and other boats... here in NC it's 100 ft... and the state Wildlife Dept is pretty good about enforcing this in our area and they're not shy about piling on additional charges especially BUI. I have seen them hand a $500 ticket to a jerk pulling a tube with no rear-view mirror.

Pellet guns... it's a warning, and not a bad one. Tom R who you gonna shoot back at? "Something moving in the bushes" ?? congrats you just killed my neighbors cat. Meanwhile whoever popped you is dialing 911 about a sniper in a boat. Talk your way out of that one, especially if they're taking video of you.

On a somewhat more serious note- Before employing any firearm over the water, one needs to think VERY carefully about ricochet. Bullets carry their velocity a LONG way over the water. I've thought about making up some steel rounds especially for plinking outboards of offending motorboaters, but it's just not worth the risk.

A couple lengths of that cheap floating poly-pro rope would be a pretty effective "area denial" tool.

The good old days are gone. The world is a lot more crowded now. That means yes, we do need to find ways to get along. However that does not mean I need to learn to tolerate assholish behavior.

Escalation? Bring it... I have a meaner big brother and a better lawyer!


FB- Doug (yes, I -am- a vigilante whackjob, although one with a strong conscience)

Perhaps you need to make a case with an enviromental group. They could possibly help get your limit enforced.

#37 Cherie320

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:15 PM

My sense is most powerboaters are sensible and considerate but they simply have no idea



That just about covers most of what we see. Over and over boats slow down, but not enough to keep from pushing big water.

Pat

#38 Tom Ray

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 08:32 PM

Tom, I don't disagree that shooting boaters with pelet guns is dangerous and not appropriate. ... We need to share the water and we need to be responsible for our wake and our actions. When we aren't, someone may shoot us with a pellet gun. ;)


I completely agree with this, and I'm not someone who has the blanket opposition to speed limits that many powerboaters seem to feel. I think there's a time and place to go fast, even in a jet ski, but recognize that it is both dangerous and antisocial when there are too many people. That's when rules keep us from shooting each other. ;)

#39 kdh

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 08:51 PM

Tom, we need more manatee zones!

#40 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:47 PM


Tom, I don't disagree that shooting boaters with pelet guns is dangerous and not appropriate. ... We need to share the water and we need to be responsible for our wake and our actions. When we aren't, someone may shoot us with a pellet gun. ;)


I completely agree with this, and I'm not someone who has the blanket opposition to speed limits that many powerboaters seem to feel. I think there's a time and place to go fast, even in a jet ski, but recognize that it is both dangerous and antisocial when there are too many people. That's when rules keep us from shooting each other. ;)



I'd agree with that.

Seriously ND. Getting some complaints from a number of folks and video of significant offenders can get some focused enforcement and lead to establishing a no wake zone. Our creek is 6 knots Sat/Sun/Hols and we don't see much during the week other than neighbors. Might be because we have an open area between the no wake area and the river that we all use for water sports of the fast persuasion.

#41 Tom Ray

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:16 AM

Tom, we need more manatee zones!


This topic will have to be banished to political anarchy if I get too worked up.

We had "Slow for Manatees" signs on our dock waaay before Jimmy Buffett discovered that it was cool, so I'm with you in spirit, however, those critters have become proxies in the wider war on internal combustion engines. These days, I have a lot more sympathy with people who just come out and say that we have too many powerboats going too fast in an area that is too small and it has to stop.

#42 dolphinmaster

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:00 PM


Tom, we need more manatee zones!


This topic will have to be banished to political anarchy if I get too worked up.

We had "Slow for Manatees" signs on our dock waaay before Jimmy Buffett discovered that it was cool, so I'm with you in spirit, however, those critters have become proxies in the wider war on internal combustion engines. These days, I have a lot more sympathy with people who just come out and say that we have too many powerboats going too fast in an area that is too small and it has to stop.


Well Tom, make it real.

Get together with likeminded other home owners along the canal, pool up some cash, throw a solar pool heater behind the bushes we were plinking from, hide the in and out pipes, ( ie diggin and baryin in the dark), and voila, a new natural warm spring just recently developed just below mean low, low tide. them critters will probably find it come late fall.

Rick,
(raised down the street from Coffee Pot Bayou in St. Pete where those bigs cows love to find the warm water in the winter.)

#43 kdh

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:45 PM

I find unreasonable, inconsiderate behavior by others hard to deal with. I live on a piece of land with 750' of road frontage on a somewhat busy rural cut-through road. My house isn't visible from the road and on the road it's woods.

I'm constantly picking up trash that people throw out of their cars onto my land. A lot of fast food garbage, etc. Who do people think picks up their trash?

I take three deep breaths and pick it up after I get the mail. I have essentially no control over the situation.

Posted Image


#44 European Bloke

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 03:22 PM

Ski boats didn’t go out to make wake, it was a by product. Wake boarding boats make wake, it’s what they do, if they don’t make enough they put more concrete in.

#45 bljones

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 02:06 AM

I've had conversations about wakes and sailboats with powerboaters on the Dock and the general consensus is that they never realized it was an issue, and for the most part it isn't an issue among the sub 26' boats that fill the slips on the dock. They get it, they understand coexistence. It's the big fuckers on the Arrogant Prick Dock that are the worst obliviots. As they pass through the harbour mouth the throttles get slammed forward and off they plow, with the radar turning at all times, on a straight course to whatever asshole raft-up they are headed off to, from which they will not deviate...then they return bow high, full throttle, rolling thunder until the pulpit just passes through the breakwall, then the throttles get pulled back to idle.
It's the guys in the aluminum jon-boats fishing just outside the breakwall I really pity. it can't be fun.

#46 toddster

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:55 AM

I have to vote for cluelessness. A lot of guys coming in to my marina slow to the bow-up, maximum-wake speed as they approach the entrance channel... half a mile of water less than ten feet deep in the fall. Then they cut to idle as they pass the breakwater. If I pass one of those guys in the channel, my keel bumps along the bottom Posted Image

#47 Soņadora

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:04 AM

I've had conversations about wakes and sailboats with powerboaters on the Dock and the general consensus is that they never realized it was an issue, and for the most part it isn't an issue among the sub 26' boats that fill the slips on the dock. They get it, they understand coexistence. It's the big fuckers on the Arrogant Prick Dock that are the worst obliviots. As they pass through the harbour mouth the throttles get slammed forward and off they plow, with the radar turning at all times, on a straight course to whatever asshole raft-up they are headed off to, from which they will not deviate...then they return bow high, full throttle, rolling thunder until the pulpit just passes through the breakwall, then the throttles get pulled back to idle.
It's the guys in the aluminum jon-boats fishing just outside the breakwall I really pity. it can't be fun.



Good point. Even the little stinkpotters bitch about wakes, so it's not about "power boaters". It's about douchebaggery. And unfortunately, it exists everywhere. The douchebaggeriness factor is at about 50% as near as I can tell. It's probably higher than that, but I'm a nice guy. And while I'd like to point a finger and say, 'there goes another one," I can't rightly do it without taking some of the blame myself.

Make a turn without using the blinker? Douchebag.

Stand in a doorway/hallway/parking lot talking/texting/picking your nose? Douchebag.

Sit in your car in the parking lot in reverse gear with your foot on the brake while you fuck around doing something stupid? Doucehbag.

Almost run over a guy who was hanging out in the middle of the lake because a minute ago when you looked he was wayyyy over there but you didn't think about leeway and you thought you were well clear so you sat down in the cockpit to enjoy a cold one with your pals but down in the cockpit visibility is poor nevermind the fact that the guy wasn't anchored he was just drifting in the 1kt current? Double Douchebag

I do try to be conscious of my Douchebaggery but I think most folks...ok 50% anyway...are completely unconscious of theirs.

#48 krissteyn

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:42 AM

A few years ago , in the ICW , a power-nut nearly swamped us going by. I hauled out my new powerfull laser pointer , and had a red dot bouncing around his cockpit - and announced over channel 16 "slow down fu@#er , see the red dot, I got you in my sights" - it took about 3 seconds....

just a perfect timing thing - he was listening and I had it handy :ph34r:

#49 kdh

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:56 AM

Life is too short and there are too many idiots to get mad at idiots. But it's a challenge sometimes to suppress the lizard part of our brains from firing into road rage.

Often it's hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, which is the best option for me. Otherwise, I try to realize that I can control only what is in my power and when things go against me it's my choice how to handle it. Take a few deep breaths and get over it or get pissed.

Like Sons's experience I've had boats for whatever reason end up surprisingly close to me. Vigilance, dear comrades, vigilance.

I do love the experience of having met a fellow boater and both of us adhere textbook-style to the collision avoidance rules. There's a knowing wave between us that says, "isn't it great not to be an idiot?"

#50 Expatriated

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:23 PM

In NJ the State Marine police love to drive their boats through mooring fields and speed for fun. Same as their jack booted colleagues do on the roads when they are running escrort for their football playing buddies.

#51 SereneSpeed

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:29 PM

kerwinrobot is has no wake etiquette...

#52 C Koch

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:55 PM

It's the big fuckers on the Arrogant Prick Dock that are the worst obliviots.


:lol: Awesome word! I gotta remember that one!

In our harbor, which is essentially a wide tidal river, most of the people coming in are pretty decent, even the big guys. The most frequent offenders are the clammers who operate skiffs with 40 HP engines at low tide. I've seen the docks rock pretty bad when they're around. Not good if there are kids on the docks. There is one other guy with maybe a runabout (20+- feet-ish) that consistently comes in a half throttle throwing wakimus maximus. Words and gestures have been exchanged once or twice, particularly if stickboy is cleaning the bottom when he passes by.

#53 toddster

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:27 AM

Not exactly a "wake" issue, but I have to sail my hobie cat up a narrow channel to a state park dock and ramp... no beach access anywhere near. Sometimes there's quite a line-up at the boat ramp. I learned to stay way clear while waiting my turn, because some idiot invariably guns his motor to run up on his trailer. Beside washing out the ramp, this tends to do bad things to unpowered cats daintily sailing in to the dock. One time some idiot with a ludicrously powered ski boat shot me clear across the lagoon and up on the rocks on the other side. :o Everyone on the ramp got a good chuckle. <_<

#54 Timo42

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:11 AM

Not exactly a "wake" issue, but I have to sail my hobie cat up a narrow channel to a state park dock and ramp... no beach access anywhere near. Sometimes there's quite a line-up at the boat ramp. I learned to stay way clear while waiting my turn, because some idiot invariably guns his motor to run up on his trailer. Beside washing out the ramp, this tends to do bad things to unpowered cats daintily sailing in to the dock. One time some idiot with a ludicrously powered ski boat shot me clear across the lagoon and up on the rocks on the other side. :o Everyone on the ramp got a good chuckle. Posted Image


I have had an idiot cut in front of me while I was saiing up to the ramp, he saw the light after I pointed out the 16lb Lewmar Claw on the bow and my lack of brakes or motor. B)


Anyone else a fan of name and shame? Maybe if more people got on the radio, some of the obliviots might get a clue.

#55 Ishmael

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:26 AM


Not exactly a "wake" issue, but I have to sail my hobie cat up a narrow channel to a state park dock and ramp... no beach access anywhere near. Sometimes there's quite a line-up at the boat ramp. I learned to stay way clear while waiting my turn, because some idiot invariably guns his motor to run up on his trailer. Beside washing out the ramp, this tends to do bad things to unpowered cats daintily sailing in to the dock. One time some idiot with a ludicrously powered ski boat shot me clear across the lagoon and up on the rocks on the other side. :o Everyone on the ramp got a good chuckle. Posted Image


I have had an idiot cut in front of me while I was saiing up to the ramp, he saw the light after I pointed out the 16lb Lewmar Claw on the bow and my lack of brakes or motor. B)


Anyone else a fan of name and shame? Maybe if more people got on the radio, some of the obliviots might get a clue.


Unfortunately, the Canadian manner is quiet resignation.










Being from proud Northumberland miner stock, I'm a big fan of a warning shot and chambering a fresh round. I don't get along with my neighbours sometimes. B)

#56 bljones

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:54 AM

Anyone else a fan of name and shame? Maybe if more people got on the radio, some of the obliviots might get a clue.

Unlikely, because while they have the radar rotating in all weather, the radio is either not on, used only as a loud hailer, or has the volume muted so as not to disturb yet another repeat of "I'm on a Boat" blaring from the stereo.

Don't even get me started on VHF discipline and radio fog horn activation abuse.




#57 philsboat

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:52 AM

I have a strategy that works when being passed by a string of powerboats in a narrow channel.I try to keep to the right side of the channel,then after the first one passes I slow down and turn to port into his wake.This slows the rest down and they pass at a decent speed.
Another thing you can do to minimize rolling as the wakes pass is to stand up with your feet apart and transfer your weight from one foot to the other as the swell passes under the boat.Works on my 25', 4400 lb. boat but wouldn't be as effective on a larger boat.

Phil

#58 Tom Ray

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:47 AM

Anyone else a fan of name and shame? Maybe if more people got on the radio, some of the obliviots might get a clue.


Maybe.

We were recently at the Fort Myers city marina, stopping for the night on the Cowmaran cruise. A 1980's vintage 30something foot cruiser comes up to the dock and we step up to help them land. Nice group of rednecks on board thanks us and asks if they can just tie up here for a few hours while going into town. We pointed to the sign at the marina entrance and said the skipper should talk to the dockmaster on 16.

He looked around in a confused manner and said, "OK, where is that?"

"On your radio! The VHF radio!"

"Oh. I guess it's time to learn how to work this thing!"

A female voice from on board was heard to say, "I TOLD you!"

They did figure it out and had their little visit in town. They really did pretty well at boat handling and were very courteous, but so completely clueless that they had not yet turned on their radio and did not know for sure how to do it. (They had just purchased the boat and the 454's sounded perfectly tuned, which I think was not just luck. Car guys bought a boat.)

#59 Steam Flyer

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:05 PM


Not exactly a "wake" issue, but I have to sail my hobie cat up a narrow channel to a state park dock and ramp... no beach access anywhere near. Sometimes there's quite a line-up at the boat ramp. I learned to stay way clear while waiting my turn, because some idiot invariably guns his motor to run up on his trailer. Beside washing out the ramp, this tends to do bad things to unpowered cats daintily sailing in to the dock. One time some idiot with a ludicrously powered ski boat shot me clear across the lagoon and up on the rocks on the other side. :o Everyone on the ramp got a good chuckle. Posted Image


I have had an idiot cut in front of me while I was saiing up to the ramp, he saw the light after I pointed out the 16lb Lewmar Claw on the bow and my lack of brakes or motor. B)


Anyone else a fan of name and shame? Maybe if more people got on the radio, some of the obliviots might get a clue.


As bad as the big sportfishers are, it's hard to pick whether the bass hunters or the pontoon boaters are dumber... generally the pontooners average older & fatter, but I'd prefer to not get run down by any of 'em. We've had a pontoon boat cut in front of the trawler at full speed so close that the driver knocked his hat off on our anchor, they circled back to get the hat with his wife yelling obsenities at us & waving middle finger etc etc.

I've also had a bass hunter literally ram my boat out of the way as he was getting up to the ramp, I told his buddy to either wait his turn or get a quick lesson in manners right then & there. Fortunately he decided to let me go first. I've also seen guys casting from the dock have their hooks catch in lines or gear on a sailboat... at one point, a fisherman literally pulled the stitching out of a seam on a catamaran's mainsail and the ensuing altercation was pretty ugly, he ended up with all 4 tires slashed (for the record, I have no idea who did this) but tires are cheaper than sails so he actually got off easy.

Some of these people actually have drool running off their chins.

OTOH I've also met a number of boaters in Tom's clueless-but-trying category, including a retired pilot with a 35-ish ft Sea Ray who wanted me to coach him on docking in current & how to pass without waking other boats. He was already pretty good on the radio
;)

FB- Doug

#60 Soņadora

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:18 PM

"On your radio! The VHF radio!"


THAT is a very good point! I will admit that our former setup was very challenging. The radio was down below and when the wind is up, even at full blast, all you hear is muffled garbage. The new setup will have a remote mic at the helm.

#61 tq2000

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:26 PM

There is a marina on the lake where I keep my J rents out pontoon boats to visiting Brooklynites and Jerseyites with nothing more than a 5 minute primer at the dock. I have had more than one that nearly t-boned us. They were completely unaware that they were doing anything wrong or even that there was a near collision. The lack of lines painted on the lake had them baffled.

#62 kimbottles

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 03:13 PM

There is a marina on the lake where I keep my J rents out pontoon boats to visiting Brooklynites and Jerseyites with nothing more than a 5 minute primer at the dock. I have had more than one that nearly t-boned us. They were completely unaware that they were doing anything wrong or even that there was a near collision. The lack of lines painted on the lake had them baffled.


Where the heck is the brake pedal?????

#63 Anomaly2

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:57 AM

A thought in regards to the original topic:

What if we just eliminated the need for etiquette by eliminating the wake? Recently, I was in the Providence (cough, Warwick) airport and saw that they had a lovely display of borrowed craft from the Herreshoff Museum. Long and lean solves the problem-- Cap'n Nat knew the formula back in 1904 and the "Two Forty" is a lovely demonstration of the concept:

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

There's only one Two Forty, but others mastered the long and lean lesson too. Bolger was a master-- his "State" series of power sharpies. So for all the Bolger bashers on here, take a look at this Argentinian, home-built, "Idaho" (if you stick with it till the end, you'll see her out in a chop).

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vox3gnHtAE4

Wake? What wake? (long, lean, speed AND low power to boot)

#64 Tom Ray

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:09 AM

A thought in regards to the original topic:

What if we just eliminated the need for etiquette by eliminating the wake?


We recently got yelled at by a fish and game officer for driving the Cowmaran by a boat ramp at about 5 knots. The complete lack of a wake did not seem to diminish the etiquette breach in his mind. ;)

#65 Steam Flyer

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:38 PM


A thought in regards to the original topic:

What if we just eliminated the need for etiquette by eliminating the wake?


We recently got yelled at by a fish and game officer for driving the Cowmaran by a boat ramp at about 5 knots. The complete lack of a wake did not seem to diminish the etiquette breach in his mind. ;)


In your case, the breach of etiquette was making the other boats look bad

FB- Doug

#66 Soņadora

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:10 PM

I would agree that keeping all powerboats on display at the airport would be the best way to eliminate the problems with wake.

man I'm feeling punchy today. Wife is out of town for 3 weeks so I'm in charge of the hormone ranch. Nevermind the twitching.

#67 SailAR

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:16 PM

Wife is out of town for 3 weeks so I'm in charge of the hormone ranch.


May the force be with you. :blink:

#68 Soņadora

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:29 PM


Wife is out of town for 3 weeks so I'm in charge of the hormone ranch.


May the force be with you. :blink:



that and a bottle of Jack.

#69 blackjenner

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:19 PM

I would agree that keeping all powerboats on display at the airport would be the best way to eliminate the problems with wake.

man I'm feeling punchy today. Wife is out of town for 3 weeks so I'm in charge of the hormone ranch. Nevermind the twitching.


If you took all our powerboats and put them on display in airports and museums across this great land...


















...it would be a good idea to keep them there.

Ba, dum, BUM!

#70 Jon Eisberg

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:12 PM

I would agree that keeping all powerboats on display at the airport would be the best way to eliminate the problems with wake.

man I'm feeling punchy today. Wife is out of town for 3 weeks so I'm in charge of the hormone ranch. Nevermind the twitching.

If you've run both power and sail up and down the ICW repeatedly, as I have to varying degrees over the years, I think your perspective might change somewhat... There are few other waterways where both are forced to coexist in close proximity for the most part of 1,000 miles or so, and while many stinkpotters are, unquestionably, inconsiderate or ignorant assholes - many sailors stinkpotters with masts are little more than a pack of whiny bitches... (grin)

Hate to tell you guys this, but many sailors who have problems with wakes while running the ICW are often experiencing a problem of their own making... Never ceases to amaze me how many people motoring down the Ditch at 6 knots NEVER appear to look behind them, coming up on them in a fast boat rarely fails to produce a "surprise" to those being overtaken... More importantly, a significant number simply don't know how to be overtaken, they simply REFUSE to cut their speed at all, and are determined to keep plowing along at 6-7 knots...

What part of "I can't get this 60' motoryacht past you at 8.5 knots without throwing you a considerable wake, you dumbass..." don't these people understand? In many cases, running a fast motoryacht or sportfisherman, I will have cut my speed by 75-80% in order to give them a courteous pass, but they refuse to give an inch... And then, in addition, I usually receive The Glare, they look at me like I'm Evil Incarnate, simply because I'm at the helm of something that happens to burn 80 gallons of diesel per hour... (grin)

Sailors never want to hear this, I know... but in my experience, they tend to be noticeably more judgmental about stinkpotters, than vice-versa... Just one man's opinion, of course...

#71 Bob Perry

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:19 PM

Jon:
Admit it. Go on. You are a closet power boater.

#72 kdh

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:43 PM

Jon:
Admit it. Go on. You are a closet power boater.

As long as he's not paying for the fuel. Posted Image

#73 PNW Matt B

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:43 PM

I was talking to a dockmate at the boatyard over the weekend - he's got a Ranger Tug, beautiful boat, and a very knowledgable guy. I'm happy to call him a sailor (he did himself) even though he's never actually sailed. He hates the same powerboaters we do, although according to him you can most easily identify them by brand - if it's a Bayliner, stay clear.

Anyway, I was working on the rigging trying to sort out what's up with that mess (still no clue - the rigger will look at it tomorrow) and he asked what it would take to get me to buy a power boat. I told him it wouldn't take much; my wife and kids would love to live aboard, and a big powerboat would make that much easier with the space to length ratio, especially one with a bit of the beginnings of a wedding cake. But, just so people would still know where I stood, it'd be moored next to my sailboat, and the name on the stern of the powerboat would be "T/T Firefly". :P

#74 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 06:30 PM

A few points:
1 - Forget the pellet gun. A buddy had to go to court over that back in the day. The judge ruled that no matter how much crab trap thieves REALLY deserve it, technically shooting them is still illegal and he better not get caught again or it wouldn't be PBJ next time :lol:
2 - Black floating polypro is real fun and can be creatively and anonymously deployed.
3 - Big powerboats are much more of a danger to small ones than they ever will be for sailboats. The wakes are quite dangerous at 30+ knots when you hit them in a light boat and they will NEVER give you right-of-way.

Here is one place the wake battle seems out of hand:

Watch out for fishermen with shotguns along the Tennessee-Tombigbee Waterway, that 234-mile stretch of manmade waterway in Mississippi and Alabama that makes it possible to travel to the Great Lakes without riding on the Mississippi River too much.

Folks on the Tenn-Tom don't like to be disturbed by a big wake, which I found out last year when I took the 68-foot Azimut Where's Waldo to Chicago for the summer.

Thank goodness I had a sharp lookout, Hector Luna, with me on the trip.

As we stopped along the way, locals warned us to go slow and told us stories of boats arriving at marinas with bullet holes in them and even, in one case, one with a crossbow bolt sticking out of its pilothouse.

#75 roverhi

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:53 AM

FWIW A boat tied up at a dock, I believe in Lake Union, Seattle caught fire and burned. The loan occupant got out with minor injuries. The boat was a total loss. Cause of the fire was cooking oil that slopped out of a pot when someone went by throwing a huge wake. No report that they caught the wake creator.

#76 blackjenner

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 04:13 PM

FWIW A boat tied up at a dock, I believe in Lake Union, Seattle caught fire and burned. The loan occupant got out with minor injuries. The boat was a total loss. Cause of the fire was cooking oil that slopped out of a pot when someone went by throwing a huge wake. No report that they caught the wake creator.


That boat is currently sitting in the yard at CSR. We looked at it yesterday.

I'm not sure if the wake story makes sense. That is a very large, beamy, motor yacht. It faces stern to the wake action in that part of the lake.

I don't see how a wake (and I've seen some big ones on Lake Union) could be so bad for that boat that it could have caused the kind of problem for an attentive person at the galley.

#77 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 04:39 PM

I think the amount of attention paid may relate to the amount owed and the current value of the vessel :rolleyes:

#78 curm

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:43 PM

When you go into the Oar at Block Island on a Friday or Saturday night you call tell the power boaters from the sailors with about 98% accuracy. And it has nothing to do with wake etiquette (or maybe it does).

#79 dogfish

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 01:21 AM

When you go into the Oar at Block Island on a Friday or Saturday night you call tell the power boaters from the sailors with about 98% accuracy. And it has nothing to do with wake etiquette (or maybe it does).


That's a different thread... gold chain etiquette

#80 Ishmael

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:53 AM


When you go into the Oar at Block Island on a Friday or Saturday night you call tell the power boaters from the sailors with about 98% accuracy. And it has nothing to do with wake etiquette (or maybe it does).


That's a different thread... gold chain etiquette


Where we go, the power crowd wear white, we wear whatever. You can't stay clean on any sailboat under 90 feet.

#81 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:33 AM



When you go into the Oar at Block Island on a Friday or Saturday night you call tell the power boaters from the sailors with about 98% accuracy. And it has nothing to do with wake etiquette (or maybe it does).


That's a different thread... gold chain etiquette


Where we go, the power crowd wear white, we wear whatever. You can't stay clean on any sailboat under 90 feet.



:D

A business associate has a 53' Searay. He and his very stylish wife will show up neatly turned out, her in tailored linen and fresh makeup, after a day long run - in the air conditioned pilothouse. My wife, with windblown and humidity frizzed hair, will look at her and then ask me "is that really boating?"

#82 Tom Ray

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:40 AM

8 foot penis boat races look extremely entertaining. :lol:

The 2011 Cocktail Class Championships!



#83 bljones

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 12:54 AM

The cocktail class is cool. family racing on homebuilt boats. Written up in WoodenBoat last year IIRC.

#84 Cavelamb

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:23 AM


I've had various powerboat "captains" tell me something like: "You guys sail in the ocean, it has waves. We make waves for you, get over it."


BV


Well, there are fish on the ocean and lakes too. Sometimes they jump into your boat when you are away. Get over it. :)




I was out on Galveston Bay this weekend (Pearson 385) and we had several large power boats scream by maybe 50 feet away
right after leaving the Kemah marina cut.

I was thinking a heaving line shot straight out our beam in front of them might be worth the expense.
(line is cheap compared to shaft repairs)

#85 farleydoodle

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:06 AM

As the owner of a beautiful San Juan 38 power boat for over 10 years, wakes were always an issue. I hated inconsiderate power boaters who threw up big wakes oblivious to other boats around them. But as the owner of a boat that idled at 5 knots with a very polite wake (IMHO), and with virtually no wake at 2 knots with troll valves set, there was always some self-righteous prick of a sailor on a dock or on a boat who'd yell at me at me to slow down even if I was drifting at 1 knot.
There are definitely assholes on both sides of this issue.

#86 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:49 AM

Going to Annapolis on a nice evening with almost no wind, I am running about 40 knots trimmed up so the boat is just barely touching the water. I am leaving almost no detectable wake and my exhaust is through the prop, so the loudest noise i am making is the wake, not the engine.
I pass a sailboat ghosting along and give then a smile and a wave. I get 3 different people flipping me off :rolleyes:

BTW - These issues seem like "back in the day" stuff to me. Water skiing USED to be a huge problem. A few people skiing could really make for an uncomfortable anchorage. I can go months between seeing anyone water skiing today. The number of penis-compensator boats with no mufflers seems way down. Power boat traffic away from the Severn seems way down for the last 4-5 years or so. The Severn is worse than ever, partly because everyone I know with a powerboat on the Severn *never leaves*. Their gas budget stretches from their dock to Ego Alley at best.

As the owner of a beautiful San Juan 38 power boat for over 10 years, wakes were always an issue. I hated inconsiderate power boaters who threw up big wakes oblivious to other boats around them. But as the owner of a boat that idled at 5 knots with a very polite wake (IMHO), and with virtually no wake at 2 knots with troll valves set, there was always some self-righteous prick of a sailor on a dock or on a boat who'd yell at me at me to slow down even if I was drifting at 1 knot.
There are definitely assholes on both sides of this issue.



#87 Mung Breath

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:41 AM

Here's a different spin on this. A couple weeks ago, I participated in the Stamford Yacht Club Double-Handed Regatta. Great fun. About 20 boats. Two days of racing, usually 20-30 miles each day of 2-4 mile legs around government marks passing back through the start/finish line 'gate' each time. The RC demonstrated sadistic humor in sending us to a particular green can off Lloyds Neck favored by fishermen for it's bizarre currents.

On the first day, the wind died with a particularly foul, 1.5-2 knot current. Sailboats piled up at the mark, often drifting down on a fleet of small powerboats and fisherman. No contact was made but no one was happy.

On the second day, winds were 10-12 knots and current was weaker. We led the fleet to this same (windward) mark which was now surrounded by 15+ small craft anchored and fishing. We honestly tried to tack well above these guys but the current dictated we'd have to pass in tight lanes between them, the mark and then immediately after rounding, a packed commercial fishing charter boat with a hundred lines extended. I can only imagine the 'shock and awe' as 1500 sq. ft. of canvas and 47' of hull barrelled through at hull speed on a close reach. I honestly could have 'high-fived' 5 different boaters. We passed the charter boat so close that passengers could have jumped aboard. This was bad and impolite enough. But then comes the rest of the fleet approaching through a wide window of 90-degrees, including feathering upwind between the fisherman. Because I was first (and did apologize profusely), we seemed to get a pass and even applauds. But the next 19 racers weren't so lucky. Behind us we heard a well-deserved barrage of insults, horns, tomatoes and beer cans hitting hulls, et.c. that really left me scratching my head over the RC's motives.

I suppose any one of those guys will take pleasure in throwing a wake the next time they pass a sailboat.

#88 Tom Ray

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:55 AM

Our local races sometimes use main harbor marks that are popular with fishermen. The results are similar.

#89 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:14 PM

Once had a fisherman, who was sitting on the port layline near our weather mark on a very light day, spontaneously up anchor so we wouldn't have to tack.

#90 kdh

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:37 PM

I try to be courteous on the water, including waving to everyone, but there are plenty of opportunities for misunderstandings.

Lobster boats are maneuverable unless they're tied to the bottom pulling up traps. But it can be hard to know if this is the case from a distance. We generally know that since they're out there making a difficult living they're ornery and we should find a way to not burden them unnecessarily.

I was ghosting along near a lobster boat once and its intentions were very difficult to discern. I gave way in the end by firing up the diesel but we were close and tempers flared and we took a tongue lashing along with something like "blue boats are the biggest assholes."

I felt mostly bad rather than angry, but don't regret anything I did.

People make assumptions based on the boat we're on. Shit happens. We do our best.

#91 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:38 PM

We once had the RC use the same government mark as an offshore powerboat race at the same time. The USCG Aux was out guarding the course and the results were comical.
AUX: This area is closed for a race!
US: We are IN THE RACE and since when do we get a guard for the course?
UAX: No you aren't in the race, turn around!
US: Get the fuck out of our way, we are too in the race. Can't you see our class flag :angry:

We all go by the CG AUX boat and head towards the mark, wondering what drugs they had been taking. Then a bunch of powerboats with racing numbers come flying by at about 90 knots and we finally get it :lol: Honestly they were far less of a danger than the drunk not-in-a-race-and-just-bought-the-boat idiots that usually go flying by at 70 knots much closer.

#92 Mung Breath

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 03:41 PM

OK - another 'sailor-on-sailor' self-indictment:

In last years' Vineyard Race, we were racing in broad daylight along the CT coast near Norwalk. On starboard tack (for what that's worth) under full steam, we see another large sailboat - with no one at the helm but occupants apparently consuming libations in the cockpit with their backs to us, lumbering along on a crossing path not checking traffic abreast of them. After realizing these were 'obliviots' (great word) on autopilot, we maintained course/speed and head up slightly to pass their transom under full power. They didn't see us until we were literally abeam. Some wine spilled and shorts were soiled. We then distinctly heard a female (wife) chastizing a male (husband) for not paying attention and we saw him return to the helm.

I'm really constantly amazed at the lack of situational awareness displayed by boaters of all types.

My worst experience with wakes occurred while anchored in a 36' fully-flagged, RC committee boat. A 45' Sport fish heading for Plymouth, MA passed within 50 ft., and never slowed down. It causes such a wake that one of my passengers, a mother nursing a newborn, was tossed out of her chair onto the deck. Needless to say, that resulted in a call to the USCG and an altercation later at the dock. .




#93 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:25 PM

I have had "cruisers" scream and cuss when I called for right of way. They were convinced that Port-Starboard only applied to racing boats :rolleyes: :lol:

#94 Ishmael

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:30 PM

I have had "cruisers" scream and cuss when I called for right of way. They were convinced that Port-Starboard only applied to racing boats :rolleyes: :lol:


My wife was on the wheel on the weekend when another sailboat, which was on a clearing course, changed course suddenly towards us. We were both beam-reaching, us on port and them on starboard. My wife bore away to get out of their way as they passed close astern. The woman driving the other boat was yelling at us as she went by, "We were on starboard tack!". Um yes you were, but it was leisurely sailing on both boats, you didn't hail, nobody had to change course more than a couple of degrees, and you didn't give us time to keep clear or tack away in any case. Some people are nuts on the "rules of the road"...I thought I exercised great restraint by not yelling "FUCK OFF".

#95 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:08 PM

For non-racing boats, your starboard tack buddy was the stand-on vessel and obligated to NOT change course suddenly at close range to give you a chance to clear them. "Hunting" is only for racing, the real rules try and keep boats apart. At one time the racing rules did too, but that is for another forum.

#96 CyberBOB

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:26 PM


I have had "cruisers" scream and cuss when I called for right of way. They were convinced that Port-Starboard only applied to racing boats :rolleyes: :lol:


My wife was on the wheel on the weekend when another sailboat, which was on a clearing course, changed course suddenly towards us. We were both beam-reaching, us on port and them on starboard. My wife bore away to get out of their way as they passed close astern. The woman driving the other boat was yelling at us as she went by, "We were on starboard tack!". Um yes you were, but it was leisurely sailing on both boats, you didn't hail, nobody had to change course more than a couple of degrees, and you didn't give us time to keep clear or tack away in any case. Some people are nuts on the "rules of the road"...I thought I exercised great restraint by not yelling "FUCK OFF".



I hear you - I've had people not any where near a collision course change from one side of the channel to the other to pass us on the correct side.




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