950 replies to this topic

[robmo01]

Is the J70 any more forgiving that the U20?  I'm an old fart and I crewed on a U20 in Galveston Bay a few weeks ago in 20+ kts of wind and I paid for it the next week with wicked back pains.  I think I would have been okay if I'd done just one race, but I was locked into two.  I've raced on  J80 and didn't find it to be as taxing as the U20, what's the deal?

[Christian]

Frostbit
how is it a sportsboat with a Club Foot and a V-15 sized mainsail?

Or from another angle how easy to sail, docile and slow does a boat need to be before the big mac bred US consumer ceases to call a boat a Sportsboat?
How far can you dumb down the 'term'

A shorter low tech Gen.1 SB the U20 is showing it around the course.
In aus it misses the speed cutoff for Sanctioned SB event based on the pedestrian SB3, and were trying to beinclusive

Is it an Aus skiff? Hell no. Will it do 20 knts in 20? Yes. Regarding classification, just relying on how it is largely classified. Sloppy on my part. I will stick with the more descriptive boat that induces shit eating grin down hill runs in 15+ with bursts of real speed.

Not a fucking chance mate!  it will be lucky to do 15 in that kind of breeze and it will not be sustained.  I thinks it is great to see a small sport'ish boat catch on but please keep the hype within reason.

[MR.CLEAN]

looking around, there are an awful lot of Etchells and other pole boat sailors in the sporty fleet.  Tons.

 

It'll take time, but the shift is here.

[MR.CLEAN]

 

Frostbit
how is it a sportsboat with a Club Foot and a V-15 sized mainsail?

Or from another angle how easy to sail, docile and slow does a boat need to be before the big mac bred US consumer ceases to call a boat a Sportsboat?
How far can you dumb down the 'term'

A shorter low tech Gen.1 SB the U20 is showing it around the course.
In aus it misses the speed cutoff for Sanctioned SB event based on the pedestrian SB3, and were trying to beinclusive

Is it an Aus skiff? Hell no. Will it do 20 knts in 20? Yes. Regarding classification, just relying on how it is largely classified. Sloppy on my part. I will stick with the more descriptive boat that induces shit eating grin down hill runs in 15+ with bursts of real speed.

Not a fucking chance mate!  it will be lucky to do 15 in that kind of breeze and it will not be sustained.  I thinks it is great to see a small sport'ish boat catch on but please keep the hype within reason.

They were easily doing 16+ on Friday.  No question; we paced 'em.

[GybeSet®]

and what else did you pace? to add to your post, at the very least, some kind of comparison or supporting argument  ?

 

I imagine a 24 would be doing 19-20

 

J is still calling it a 'speedster' right, or have they swapped out the j/80 out as their definition of a sportsboat? 

[GybeSet®]

 

J is still calling it a 'speedster' right, or have they swapped out the j/80 out as their definition of a sportsboat?

just saw the answer to that, they have

in the ad top of page

[Snapper95]

They were easily doing 16+ on Friday.  No question; we paced 'em.

Not good enough. You need 4K video from a calibrated, government-vetted GPS with triple Ring Laser Gyro using coupled AHRS backup as proof (for some people anyway).

[MR.CLEAN]

and what else did you pace? to add to your post, at the very least, some kind of comparison or supporting argument  ?

 

I imagine a 24 would be doing 19-20

 

J is still calling it a 'speedster' right, or have they swapped out the j/80 out as their definition of a sportsboat? 

24s were doing over 20 knots in the big puffs; no surprise there.  Flat water, reacher up, puffs to 30.

 

Jackpot (Viper) hit 23 on the GPS, I am told.

[BIAM]

Finally this is making sense to me....

 

GS, I'm guessing you've been hired by Jboats marketing dept....

 

you've singlehandedly created more support for this boat than they could have ever dreamed...reverse psychology works...

 

fucking brilliant

and what else did you pace? to add to your post, at the very least, some kind of comparison or supporting argument  ?

 

I imagine a 24 would be doing 19-20

 

J is still calling it a 'speedster' right, or have they swapped out the j/80 out as their definition of a sportsboat? 

[Vogel515]

I am actively involved in a Viper program and I can't say enough good things about the Viper, but this is a place for J70 impressions and this is what I've got:

 

J70's are a great compromise of a sport boat and day sailor

 

70's look very well built, and I haven't seen or heard anything otherwise.

 

On Friday at CRW, when the gusts were getting into the mid high 20's, the j70s were catching up to the viper fleet on line 2 - will attribute this to control, not outright speed. 

 

I did not see a single person on a j70 standing on the keel to right their boat. 

 

Winch discussion? Even the pro's were using them at CRW. 

[frostbit]

 

Frostbit
how is it a sportsboat with a Club Foot and a V-15 sized mainsail?

Or from another angle how easy to sail, docile and slow does a boat need to be before the big mac bred US consumer ceases to call a boat a Sportsboat?
How far can you dumb down the 'term'

A shorter low tech Gen.1 SB the U20 is showing it around the course.
In aus it misses the speed cutoff for Sanctioned SB event based on the pedestrian SB3, and were trying to beinclusive

Is it an Aus skiff? Hell no. Will it do 20 knts in 20? Yes. Regarding classification, just relying on how it is largely classified. Sloppy on my part. I will stick with the more descriptive boat that induces shit eating grin down hill runs in 15+ with bursts of real speed.

Not a fucking chance mate!  it will be lucky to do 15 in that kind of breeze and it will not be sustained.  I thinks it is great to see a small sport'ish boat catch on but please keep the hype within reason.

They were easily doing 16+ on Friday.  No question; we paced 'em.

Ok, I will admit 20 in 20 is a shameless exaggeration. 16+, however, was the standard in 20+. I saw Tim Healy take off to a 20+ burst at least one time. At any rate, it looked that way. Wasn't really focused on other boats at that time. Mostly just smiling my face off and trimming.

[Icebear]

At Charleston Race Week. Great breeze yesterday. J 70 is a blast. In solid breeze (18-20) it accelerates up to 13+knts. When a bigger puff comes through, it kicks on the jets and instantly climbs to 16+. Saw over 17+ as top speed. Lot's of position changes downwind. We are still figuring out the boat, but fleet (from the very back of the top third) looks very competent and very competitive.

Thing is, the "instant" acceleration when the "jets" are kicking in is maybe half the acceleration of a lighter sport boat or dinghy. 

F=MA.

Acceleration=Fun. 

[Snapper95]

That is quite possibly the lamest argument ever attempted on this forum.  We are talking about boats, so keep it to that.  Do you think thoroughbred breeders compare their horses' speed to cars?  Or that sportscar racers compare their speeds to the space shuttle?  Context, folks.

 

Gybe,

 

 

Seriously, we are talking about sailboats.  Fastest ones go 50+ miles per hour.  That ain't really fast. If you want fast, you need another sport.  F1, Lemans, they're pushing 200 + miles per hour.  Unlimited air racers at Reno are pushing 500 miles and hour.  Most jet fighters are in the 1.6 to 2.2 mach range.  Face it, sailboats are slow.  So arguments about fastest are kind of like saying your the strongest kid in kindergarden....

Crash

 

PS,  Not claiming the J/70 is fast.  Just faster than my S2 9.1 most of the time....

 

The reason the J/70 is 'fast enough' is that it planes downwind in reasonable breeze.  That means the 4KSB crowd that's moved in to the J/70 fleet will get a real adrenaline rush often enough to keep them excited about the boat, grinning from ear to ear, and telling all their friends.

 

 THAT, more than any other factor, is why the sporties have slowly but surely been taking over inshore racing.

 

 

 

No more so than the comparison you made between sailboats and entry level race cars when you wrote the initial review of the J/70 and VX-One. He's making a point about relative speeds versus relevance to the sailing experience. Same thing you did in your article, more or less, since race cars are a lame comparison to boats as well.

 

He's saying that if you've piloted relatively high velocity vehicles you probably aren't as impressed about absolute speeds in a sailboat. Flying beyond Mach 2 is done precisely to say you did it, and is of no tactical relevance. It's not a big deal, anyone qualified can do it. Turning against a competitor who is trying to kill you at 335 knots indicated is far more thrilling and far more stressful. The former is about ego and impresses the air headed blonds and the club, while the latter is about skill and if you want to be candid, courage. It's how one's reputation amongst peers is determined.

 

Let's be honest. The whole boat speed discussion is about ego's, nothing more. Absolute speed in a racing sailboat is significant relative to whether you want the tactical decision making of being able to plane downwind in a reasonable breeze, vs either never being able to plane or having the SA/D to (almost) always be able to plane.

 

All of the above situations are of interest depending on viewpoint and the characteristics of distance vs the weather where you typically sail. If the boat will often see variable conditions that mean you have to switch tactics, then it is more interesting in general. This assumes that the boat is reasonably controllable in the conditions that are prevalent.

 

If your ego says you must go 20 knots instead of a paltry 17, then plenty of boats beckon. Go buy one and have a blast. Either way, your stu cazzo will still be the same size.

[frostbit]

At Charleston Race Week. Great breeze yesterday. J 70 is a blast. In solid breeze (18-20) it accelerates up to 13+knts. When a bigger puff comes through, it kicks on the jets and instantly climbs to 16+. Saw over 17+ as top speed. Lot's of position changes downwind. We are still figuring out the boat, but fleet (from the very back of the top third) looks very competent and very competitive.

Thing is, the "instant" acceleration when the "jets" are kicking in is maybe half the acceleration of a lighter sport boat or dinghy. 
F=MA.
Acceleration=Fun. 

No doubt. And I've spent most of life sailing high performance dinghy's that make any keelboat feel slow. Now I'm old and really really busy with life and work and family. For me, this is a great boat. For you, well, maybe you need something else. Have at it.

[Mambo Kings]

I am actively involved in a Viper program and I can't say enough good things about the Viper, but this is a place for J70 impressions and this is what I've got:

 

J70's are a great compromise of a sport boat and day sailor  AGREED

 

70's look very well built, and I haven't seen or heard anything otherwise. AGREED

 

On Friday at CRW, when the gusts were getting into the mid high 20's, the j70s were catching up to the viper fleet on line 2 - will attribute this to control, not outright speed. VIPERS WERE FASTER UPWIND AND DOWN ON FRIDAY. BOTH FLEETS HAD SOME STRAGGLERS. NO BIG DEAL VIPER  IS A LIGHTER BOAT. DAN HAS THE TIMES. WE WERE USUALLY PLAYING SOME TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT AS WE  CAUGHT UP WITH THE J70S ON OUR SECOND DOWNWIND.

 

I did not see a single person on a j70 standing on the keel to right their boat. 

 

Winch discussion? Even the pro's were using them at CRW. AGREED

[frostbit]

I am actively involved in a Viper program and I can't say enough good things about the Viper, but this is a place for J70 impressions and this is what I've got:
 
J70's are a great compromise of a sport boat and day sailor  AGREED
 
70's look very well built, and I haven't seen or heard anything otherwise. AGREED
 
On Friday at CRW, when the gusts were getting into the mid high 20's, the j70s were catching up to the viper fleet on line 2 - will attribute this to control, not outright speed. VIPERS WERE FASTER UPWIND AND DOWN ON FRIDAY. BOTH FLEETS HAD SOME STRAGGLERS. NO BIG DEAL VIPER  IS A LIGHTER BOAT. DAN HAS THE TIMES. WE WERE USUALLY PLAYING SOME TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT AS WE  CAUGHT UP WITH THE J70S ON OUR SECOND DOWNWIND.
 
I did not see a single person on a j70 standing on the keel to right their boat. 
 
Winch discussion? Even the pro's were using them at CRW. AGREED

Would have to agree with MK on reasons fleets were over-lapping. Boats in the back of both fleets, as should be expected, were both slow up-wind and sailing conservatively downwind with the occasional time-consuming wipe-out. We saw some Vipers take a very long time to recover and a few J70s did as well. When the top 1/2 of the fleet are covering the downwind leg in less than 12 min, and a back of the fleet boat in the class in front is on its ear for minutes, it is inevitable.

[Mambo Kings]

The biggest impression I got is that both fleets were having fun and enjoyed sharing the same line.

 

We got to sail alongside and chat to a few J70 owners before the starts and shared a few laughs.

 

Yeah the occasional J70 found itself near the line during the Viper sequence and suddenly surrounded by a swarm of Vipers, but that was inevitable with a combined fleet of 92 sport boats on one circle, and was always accompanied by a little good hearted ribaldry.

Viper : " You know your crew want a Viper when they try to start with us"

J70 : " You call the third row a start?"

 

It is fun to meet folks from another class and our circle had a very friendly atmosphere. I hope the J70s and the Vipers share the same line at CRW again next year.

[schoonerman]

The biggest impression I got is that both fleets were having fun and enjoyed sharing the same line.
 
We got to sail alongside and chat to a few J70 owners before the starts and shared a few laughs.
 
Yeah the occasional J70 found itself near the line during the Viper sequence and suddenly surrounded by a swarm of Vipers, but that was inevitable with a combined fleet of 92 sport boats on one circle, and was always accompanied by a little good hearted ribaldry.
Viper : " You know your crew want a Viper when they try to start with us"
J70 : " You call the third row a start?"
 
It is fun to meet folks from another class and our circle had a very friendly atmosphere. I hope the J70s and the Vipers share the same line at CRW again next year.

Damn, I Hope you didn't have any third row starts.....that was hillarious though.

You know what would be BIG fun? Boat swap regatta with the J70's. bring your shitty sails, you get the first start with your boat then have to switch with a 70 crew. Would be a hoot and build some good bridges.

[nbb]

Thanks for the laugh of claiming j70s are doing 49er speeds. I needed that..

[Mambo Kings]

The biggest impression I got is that both fleets were having fun and enjoyed sharing the same line.
 

It is fun to meet folks from another class and our circle had a very friendly atmosphere. I hope the J70s and the Vipers share the same line at CRW again next year.

You know what would be BIG fun? Boat swap regatta with the J70's. bring your shitty sails, you get the first start with your boat then have to switch with a 70 crew. Would be a hoot and build some good bridges.

 

Jeez, I don't know about that Schoon. There would be a lot of used J70s on the market the following Monday.

 

 

and  I'm not sure that Peabody could keep up with the demand

[schoonerman]

Lol....different buyers Mambo. Boats are VERY different.

I'd be interested in seeing just how many J80, J105 and J120 owners are buying 70's. I know of 4 personally.

Hey, J70 owners...what'd you own b4 the 70?

[Monster Mash]

Two new ones awaiting commissioning  at Svendsens in Nor Cal..

[clamslapper]

Lol....different buyers Mambo. Boats are VERY different.

I'd be interested in seeing just how many J80, J105 and J120 owners are buying 70's. I know of 4 personally.

Hey, J70 owners...what'd you own b4 the 70?

 

I know several J24 guys who have made the switch.  And the bigtime factory crews like Tim Healy's of course have.

 

Perhaps it's not a great boat.  But a J24 wasn't a great boat either yet achieved iconic stature in the sport.  But both boats make killer one-designs.  It's just too bad that a boat like the Left Coast Dart, which is talked about a lot in these forums and is only a little bit bigger than a J70, and just about as easy to tow/launch/deal with, will never make it as a great OD class.  It looks to be ten times as much boat as either a J70 or Viper is -- slower than the latter, but a far sight sportier than the former, and with superb attention to detail and comfortable for overnights.

[12345]

fun ass boat

[hawaiifins]

Lol....different buyers Mambo. Boats are VERY different.
I'd be interested in seeing just how many J80, J105 and J120 owners are buying 70's. I know of 4 personally.
Hey, J70 owners...what'd you own b4 the 70?

 
I know several J24 guys who have made the switch.  And the bigtime factory crews like Tim Healy's of course have.
 
Perhaps it's not a great boat.  But a J24 wasn't a great boat either yet achieved iconic stature in the sport.  But both boats make killer one-designs.  It's just too bad that a boat like the Left Coast Dart, which is talked about a lot in these forums and is only a little bit bigger than a J70, and just about as easy to tow/launch/deal with, will never make it as a great OD class.  It looks to be ten times as much boat as either a J70 or Viper is -- slower than the latter, but a far sight sportier than the former, and with superb attention to detail and comfortable for overnights.

I know where you can get a Dart. Head west from Chicago. Stop before you splash into Puget Sound.

[GybeSet®]

 
Like the Left Coast Dart, .... It looks to be ten times as much boat as either a J70 or Viper is -- slower than the latter, but a far sight sportier than the former,

did you see the race week results up PNW when snap campaigned the Dart?
You would lose money on a bet.
The Viper might have a look when the breeze is up but even thats not a sure thing.

[peculier]

Hey, J70 owners...what'd you own b4 the 70?

 

Capri 25 (I danced with the one who brought me). Also have an MC and a Laser.

[frostbit]

Lol....different buyers Mambo. Boats are VERY different.

I'd be interested in seeing just how many J80, J105 and J120 owners are buying 70's. I know of 4 personally.

Hey, J70 owners...what'd you own b4 the 70?

I know of J80, Sonar, Melges24, and many other classes.

[Snapper95]

Lol....different buyers Mambo. Boats are VERY different.
I'd be interested in seeing just how many J80, J105 and J120 owners are buying 70's. I know of 4 personally.
Hey, J70 owners...what'd you own b4 the 70?

Viper...we all switched from Vipers.

[stumbler]

Trying once again to shift this conversation from a pointless debate about the relative penis size of sailors who prefer one class versus another...

 

Here is a link to a CRW download from Tim Healy: 

 

http://www.onedesign...px?news_id=4150

 

Again, would love to hear any impressions, lessons learned, first hand experiences of any kind from CRW participants. Especially the mid-packers and bottom third folks, which we will be.... what's it like in the cheap seats? How's the learning curve look? 

[Ryley]

Trying once again to shift this conversation from a pointless debate about the relative penis size of sailors who prefer one class versus another...

 

Here is a link to a CRW download from Tim Healy: 

 

http://www.onedesign...px?news_id=4150

 

Again, would love to hear any impressions, lessons learned, first hand experiences of any kind from CRW participants. Especially the mid-packers and bottom third folks, which we will be.... what's it like in the cheap seats? How's the learning curve look? 

The end of the link you provided says it all: "As I said, our learning curve in the J70 is still pretty steep."  It's a double-edged sword having so many pros in the class - on the one hand, the tuning guides and boat handling will be sussed out pretty quickly, on the other hand, they're going to dominate the top of the class for a while. Nothing wrong with that, just something to keep in mind.

[Vogel515]

Not to flog a dead horse, but I want to make sure I was understood correctly.

 

On Friday at CRW, when the gusts were getting into the mid high 20's, the j70s were catching up to the viper fleet on line 2 - will attribute this to control, not outright speed. VIPERS WERE FASTER UPWIND AND DOWN ON FRIDAY. BOTH FLEETS HAD SOME STRAGGLERS. NO BIG DEAL VIPER  IS A LIGHTER BOAT. DAN HAS THE TIMES. WE WERE USUALLY PLAYING SOME TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT AS WE  CAUGHT UP WITH THE J70S ON OUR SECOND DOWNWIND.

 

I was one of the stragglers, but I didn't say the J70's were faster. My emphasis was meant to be on the ease of control - "will attribute this to control, not outright speed". 

 

I sail on a lot of different boats, and one thing I always take into consideration when looking at boat is the boats overall utility. The impression the J70 leaves me with is that there wouldn't be many days I would hesitate to leave the dock. Harbor cruise in 15-20 with inexperienced friends or family? No problem. 1-5 knts? My TBird wouldn't move. It's blowing 20+ and I have some experienced friends looking to blast around? Done. 

[Mambo Kings]

Not to flog a dead horse, but I want to make sure I was understood correctly.

 

On Friday at CRW, when the gusts were getting into the mid high 20's, the j70s were catching up to the viper fleet on line 2 - will attribute this to control, not outright speed. VIPERS WERE FASTER UPWIND AND DOWN ON FRIDAY. BOTH FLEETS HAD SOME STRAGGLERS. NO BIG DEAL VIPER  IS A LIGHTER BOAT. DAN HAS THE TIMES. WE WERE USUALLY PLAYING SOME TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT AS WE  CAUGHT UP WITH THE J70S ON OUR SECOND DOWNWIND.

 

I was one of the stragglers, but I didn't say the J70's were faster. My emphasis was meant to be on the ease of control - "will attribute this to control, not outright speed". 

 

I sail on a lot of different boats, and one thing I always take into consideration when looking at boat is the boats overall utility. The impression the J70 leaves me with is that there wouldn't be many days I would hesitate to leave the dock. Harbor cruise in 15-20 with inexperienced friends or family? No problem. 1-5 knts? My TBird wouldn't move. It's blowing 20+ and I have some experienced friends looking to blast around? Done. 

 

Roger that. The horse is a carcass so I'll leave it thar.  As I said, I think the main impression I got was that both fleets had a bunch of fun and would like to share the same line again.

 

I had one thought as I watched the angles the J70s sailed downwind and how to exploit downwind passing lanes in the bottom third of the fleet. Y'all very gentlemanly and dont set up so much for the "jump" on the boat ahead in prep for the gybe. In Melges 24 and Viper fleet, the peleton can be murderous if a boat ahead makes the slightest slip on the gybe. In a tough fleet, its like watching dominoes as the boats gybe, first boat gybes, and boom! six go with him to try and ride the jump...but you have to set up slightly to leeward on a puff.   With breeze and tide, it was probably less of a factor at Charleston, but couple of places at the finish where I would have gone for it.

[frostbit]

It was a huge factor in the top half of the fleet.

[stumbler]

We've heard tell of using an electric drill to crank the keel up and down. We're picking up our boat this week and like this idea. Two questions:

 

- Is there any specific drill or drill specs that people find are working well?

 

- What type and size of sockets/drivers/accessories etc. do we need to buy to make this work? 

 

Thanks for any help anyone can provide. 

[peculier]

We've heard tell of using an electric drill to crank the keel up and down. We're picking up our boat this week and like this idea. Two questions:

 

- Is there any specific drill or drill specs that people find are working well?

 

- What type and size of sockets/drivers/accessories etc. do we need to buy to make this work? 

 

Thanks for any help anyone can provide. 

 

Almost any cordless drill will work (I'm keeping a Bosch on the boat). A 3/4" deep socket will work for both the keel crane and the nuts for the keel retention plate. Just make sure it's a deep socket, because the nut on the keel crane is more than an inch from the top, so the socket needs to be deep to reach the nut. Works very well, less than 90 seconds to take the keel up or down. 

 

One note: when you're dropping the keel for the first time, it may drop suddenly, maybe an inch or so at a time. Don't be alarmed: this happened because the cable on the crane wasn't wound up under load. Once you take it up again, the cable will wind and and unwind much better. 

[stumbler]

Thanks peculier! 

[Ship o' Fools]

We've heard tell of using an electric drill to crank the keel up and down. We're picking up our boat this week and like this idea. Two questions:

 

- Is there any specific drill or drill specs that people find are working well?

 

- What type and size of sockets/drivers/accessories etc. do we need to buy to make this work? 

 

Thanks for any help anyone can provide. 

 

I've seen it done and am sure they were using more than a 12v drill.  Your J70 dealer should know or should know who to call.  If not, call the Jk3 guys in San Diego if someone doesn't chime in with actual knowledge and experience.

[RDT]

I just got the Bosch drill. Comes with two 18V Lithium batteries and 600 lbs of torque.  It was the highest torque I could find at a reasonable price. No problem with three days off up and down at the Annap NOODS with single battery..

 

http://www.lowes.com...osch&facetInfo=

[USA190520]

Buy a big 18v powerful drill. You'll use both batteries raising the keel.

Just did the noods on a 70, first time on one racing..

Little underpowered in light slop.. Very very driver centric, proper trim tune is key,

Good OD, although the jib tracks are too far outboard and there's no need for the winches.

I like them..

[peculier]

Buy a big 18v powerful drill. You'll use both batteries raising the keel.
 

 

Point of clarification: you burned through two batteries just raising the keel?

 

I've used my old half-charged battery to lower and raise the keel a couple times, it's still got plenty of charge. 

[frostbit]

Buy a big 18v powerful drill. You'll use both batteries raising the keel.
Just did the noods on a 70, first time on one racing..
Little underpowered in light slop.. Very very driver centric, proper trim tune is key,
Good OD, although the jib tracks are too far outboard and there's no need for the winches.
I like them..

You need the winches when the wind comes up and the trimmer is legs out. Cross sheeting is the move, the trimmer has no leverage and therefore fine adjustments require a winch.

Your drill must be busted or your batteries are dead. Doesn't eat much battery power to lift the keel.

[GLAZE]

Buy a big 18v powerful drill. You'll use both batteries raising the keel.
Just did the noods on a 70, first time on one racing..
Little underpowered in light slop.. Very very driver centric, proper trim tune is key,
Good OD, although the jib tracks are too far outboard and there's no need for the winches.
I like them..

You need the winches when the wind comes up and the trimmer is legs out. Cross sheeting is the move, the trimmer has no leverage and therefore fine adjustments require a winch.

Your drill must be busted or your batteries are dead. Doesn't eat much battery power to lift the keel.

Why can't you put a cleat on the weather rail like a Melges and banjo it in?

[frostbit]

Buy a big 18v powerful drill. You'll use both batteries raising the keel.
Just did the noods on a 70, first time on one racing..
Little underpowered in light slop.. Very very driver centric, proper trim tune is key,
Good OD, although the jib tracks are too far outboard and there's no need for the winches.
I like them..

You need the winches when the wind comes up and the trimmer is legs out. Cross sheeting is the move, the trimmer has no leverage and therefore fine adjustments require a winch.
Your drill must be busted or your batteries are dead. Doesn't eat much battery power to lift the keel.

Why can't you put a cleat on the weather rail like a Melges and banjo it in?

You could. But I'm too old for that. Most people will want the winch.

[USA190520]

Buy a big 18v powerful drill. You'll use both batteries raising the keel.
Just did the noods on a 70, first time on one racing..
Little underpowered in light slop.. Very very driver centric, proper trim tune is key,
Good OD, although the jib tracks are too far outboard and there's no need for the winches.
I like them..

You need the winches when the wind comes up and the trimmer is legs out. Cross sheeting is the move, the trimmer has no leverage and therefore fine adjustments require a winch.

Your drill must be busted or your batteries are dead. Doesn't eat much battery power to lift the keel.

Why can't you put a cleat on the weather rail like a Melges and banjo it in?

That's the first thing I said too.. The jib is tiny..

[USA190520]

Buy a big 18v powerful drill. You'll use both batteries raising the keel.
 

 
Point of clarification: you burned through two batteries just raising the keel?
 
I've used my old half-charged battery to lower and raise the keel a couple times, it's still got plenty of charge. 

Oh, we opted for the longer heavier keel so... Yeah.

[peculier]

 

Buy a big 18v powerful drill. You'll use both batteries raising the keel.
 

 
Point of clarification: you burned through two batteries just raising the keel?
 
I've used my old half-charged battery to lower and raise the keel a couple times, it's still got plenty of charge. 

Oh, we opted for the longer heavier keel so... Yeah.

 

*sigh* I forgot that earnestness is always punished on SA.

[SailRacer]

Who is Ernest?

[Mambo Kings]

Who is Ernest?

 

Sue Ness's husband.

[Mambo Kings]

Earnest Ness has no place on Sailing Anarchy, so he best go back Sue Ness.

[6924]

Is the J70 any more forgiving that the U20?  I'm an old fart and I crewed on a U20 in Galveston Bay a few weeks ago in 20+ kts of wind and I paid for it the next week with wicked back pains.  I think I would have been okay if I'd done just one race, but I was locked into two.  I've raced on  J80 and didn't find it to be as taxing as the U20, what's the deal?

If you were knacked sailing a U20, you'll be knackered on any SB. The U20 is pretty much the easiest on the body of the SBs.