Jump to content


Anchoring follies


  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#1 Ishmael

Ishmael

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,305 posts
  • Location:Fuctifino

Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:27 AM

We had a nice weekend, all things considered. I worked Saturday, so SWMBO and I took off Sunday morning and sailed up to Montague Harbour in a nice stiff breeze. With just the genny, we were doing high sixes on a broad reach, so we just sauntered along and sailed almost right up to our chosen anchor point. There were still quite a few gusts to contend with, but it eased overnight. This morning, light wind and a bit of rain. We decided to cut and run about noon, figuring a nice sail back, mostly upwind. I pulled in the 60 feet of rode and 100 feet of chain with the windlass, and as I got the anchor to the bow roller, it vanished with a mighty splash. I was left holding the chain and half a swivel. It looked pristine, it was 6 years old and lightly used and I had done a visual of the entire system a month ago. Since this was a $90 swivel and a nice 35-lb Delta anchor, I was a little miffed. Seems that Kong had used some other, corrosion-prone alloy in the screw that holds the halves together, and it had given up the ghost long ago judging by the amount of corrosion on the fractured surface. We are hugely lucky not to be up on a rocky beach somewhere.

Attached File  swivel1.jpg   477.46K   23 downloadsAttached File  swivel2.jpg   444.3K   26 downloads

Now to buy a new anchor and a better means of attaching it to the chain.

#2 sculpin

sculpin

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,011 posts
  • Location:44 deg 38' 54.65N 63 deg 35' 41.17W
  • Interests:Sailing, Beer, and power tools.

Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:33 AM

Now to buy a new anchor and a better means of attaching it to the chain.


Wow. Yikes!

Glad the anchor was the only loss!

#3 oldgoatroper

oldgoatroper

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,655 posts
  • Location:Alberta

Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:09 AM

Thread title made me think of this... (which I probably first saw here on CA...)



#4 Soñadora

Soñadora

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,778 posts
  • Location:The Corn Coast, MN

Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:10 AM

Dayum!

#5 WHL

WHL

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,690 posts
  • Location:49-19.8N, 123-09.7W
  • Interests:Offshore, Star, Farr 30, R Boat racing, and gunkholing in classic daysailers

Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:22 AM

How deep is it where you dropped the hook? I'd be happy to dive for it if you want to save some loot. PM if you want to do that. I need to get over to the island in the next week anyway.

#6 Ajax

Ajax

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,704 posts
  • Location:Edgewater, MD
  • Interests:It's Obvious!

Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:30 AM

I'd be pretty pissed. I'm really glad it held through the night before giving up on you.

#7 Ishmael

Ishmael

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,305 posts
  • Location:Fuctifino

Posted 29 May 2012 - 03:32 AM

How deep is it where you dropped the hook? I'd be happy to dive for it if you want to save some loot. PM if you want to do that. I need to get over to the island in the next week anyway.


50 feet. It's probably not worth it unless you need the exercise. I know exactly where it is...

Attached File  anchor.JPG   132.88K   30 downloads

Edit: I'm going after West Marine for the swivel, I'll see if they will cover the anchor as well. If not, I can get it at a serious discount.

#8 WHL

WHL

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,690 posts
  • Location:49-19.8N, 123-09.7W
  • Interests:Offshore, Star, Farr 30, R Boat racing, and gunkholing in classic daysailers

Posted 29 May 2012 - 03:39 AM


How deep is it where you dropped the hook? I'd be happy to dive for it if you want to save some loot. PM if you want to do that. I need to get over to the island in the next week anyway.


50 feet. It's probably not worth it unless you need the exercise. I know exactly where it is...

Attached File  anchor.JPG   132.88K   30 downloads

Edit: I'm going after West Marine for the swivel, I'll see if they will cover the anchor as well. If not, I can get it at a serious discount.


Ish, 50ft is an easy depth. Can you PM the Lat Long so i can take a look at the chart and the bottom?

#9 CruiserJim

CruiserJim

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 375 posts
  • Location:Alamitos Bay, CA
  • Interests:Sailing, road cycling, reading.

Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:20 AM

I use an old-fashioned galvanized shackle. Don't see any need for a swivel and not had any problems without one. Just one less thing to fail.

#10 Keith

Keith

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,796 posts
  • Location:Vancouver B.C.

Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:33 AM

I Always used a large anchor shackle, never had a problem,

Pretty nice offer, to help have your anchor recovered, well done WHL, class act. :)

#11 VALIS

VALIS

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,596 posts

Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:48 AM

I realize that this is too late to help, and more than a little obvious at this point, but that type of swivel is bad news. It can't handle any significant side load, so shouldn't be directly connected to the anchor. If you *must* use it, put a strong shackle on the anchor, and connect the swivel to the shackle. This improves the geometry, but there are still ways for it to get wedged and pry itself apart. The swivels that look like shackles are better for this.

Better yet, forget the swivel and just use a shackle to connect the chain to the anchor.

#12 Presuming Ed

Presuming Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,035 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:01 AM

a better means of attaching it to the chain.

Attached File  shackle2.jpg   6.12K   1 downloads
Mouse with monel. Worked for centuries.

#13 SailAR

SailAR

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 772 posts

Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:15 PM

Bummer. Thank goodness it held until morning.

I debated about removing the one that came with my boat, figured it lasted 10 years for the PO... after seeing this, quite happy I did now.

+1 WHL, that's really nice of you.

#14 kent_island_sailor

kent_island_sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,430 posts
  • Location:Kent Island!

Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:44 PM

I spliced my rode to the chain using advice from this very forum and so far - so good :)
Cheap and not prone to sudden failure either B)

#15 Ishmael

Ishmael

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,305 posts
  • Location:Fuctifino

Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:32 PM

I spliced my rode to the chain using advice from this very forum and so far - so good :)
Cheap and not prone to sudden failure either B)


My rode is spliced to the chain, it's the connection between the chain and the anchor that's problematic. My issue is that the anchor roller is very narrow and limited the size of the shackle I could use for that connection. That nice skinny swivel worked well until it failed catastrophically.

#16 kent_island_sailor

kent_island_sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,430 posts
  • Location:Kent Island!

Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:48 PM

Doh!
For some dumb reason I thought you were talking about the other end of the chain. Bad reading comprehension day. I have read numerous complaints about those swivels over the years. Maybe there is a better brand? Is Suncor the good or the bad one? My roller will pass a normal sized shackle, so I don't have this issue.


I spliced my rode to the chain using advice from this very forum and so far - so good :)
Cheap and not prone to sudden failure either B)


My rode is spliced to the chain, it's the connection between the chain and the anchor that's problematic. My issue is that the anchor roller is very narrow and limited the size of the shackle I could use for that connection. That nice skinny swivel worked well until it failed catastrophically.



#17 kgw

kgw

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 490 posts
  • Location:SoCal

Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:29 PM

I have one of the "good" Italian versions in a toolbox, but after seeing the size of the swivel, which is split down the middle, I couldn't bring myself to use it!

#18 Ishmael

Ishmael

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,305 posts
  • Location:Fuctifino

Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:40 PM

I have one of the "good" Italian versions in a toolbox, but after seeing the size of the swivel, which is split down the middle, I couldn't bring myself to use it!


It was the "good" Italian one that went south. Never again. I can't see trusting any sort of swivel after seeing how my anchor was cockeyed coming up sometimes.

#19 Pointy End

Pointy End

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 423 posts
  • Location:St. Johns River, Jacksonville, FL

Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:45 PM

"I'm going after West Marine for the swivel, I'll see if they will cover the anchor as well. If not, I can get it at a serious discount."


Good Luck With That!!
Please let us know how that goes.

#20 kent_island_sailor

kent_island_sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,430 posts
  • Location:Kent Island!

Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:49 PM

I made West give me my money back for an outboard by taking it in on 1100 Saturday and screaming about how my wife and infant son were floating out to sea because this engine died for about the 10th time and where was a manager :lol:

So...........be loud and time for maximum effect ;)

#21 BigBlueSailor

BigBlueSailor

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Location:Connecticut, USA

Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:01 PM

If you did get that from West Marine TAKE IT BACK. They have fantastic customer service when it comes to things like this and I would wager they will make things right.



#22 slap

slap

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,145 posts
  • Location:Somewhat near Naptown

Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:05 PM

If you did get that from West Marine TAKE IT BACK. They have fantastic customer service when it comes to things like this and I would wager they will make things right.



They did step up and offer to take back Rockna anchors when it turned out that some were made with substandard steel.

#23 whinging pom

whinging pom

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 415 posts

Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:07 PM

You can buy narrow shackles that don't have the sticky-out bit. Just peen them over to scure the pin. I'd never trust one of those swivel gadgets; it's easy to turn the anchor the right way round as it hangs from the bow roller, just grab the chain and turn.

#24 Diarmuid

Diarmuid

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 868 posts
  • Location:Laramie, WY, USA

Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:35 PM

Several reported problems with those swivels. Go HERE & scroll down to see WM CEO Geoff Eisenberg's response. There's a bit of the standard Customer Service line, "You're the only person this has ever happened to", but overall Mr. Eisenberg seems attentive to the matter. Let WM bill Kong for the replacement anchor.

Lat38 printed the letter as a response to this failure:

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2009-05-15&dayid=273#.T8USRIE1dac

WM in-house testing here:

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2009-06-12#.T8UTmYE1dac

Lateral loads, such a you might get when the swivel binds on a flat-shanked anchor, seem to be the culprit, prising apart the halves. Apparently swivels are historically a weak link; wasn't it Force or Plastimo swivel failing several years back? A plain old shackle may be the best answer. Let the anchor hang from the bow roller for a minute, it should work out any twists. Sorry about your tackle; hope WM takes care of you. If the local store drags its feet, a direct email to Mr. Eisenberg may be effective. He can't claim it's never happened before, nor that your lost anchor is not a direct result of faulty kit they sold you. A good manager knows it's always cheaper in the long run to take care of upset customers than to repair the damage when it all blows up publicly. Sooner or later somebody's gonna lose a boat (or worse) to one of these, and then it'll be all "What did they know & when did they know it" time.

#25 BigBlueSailor

BigBlueSailor

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Location:Connecticut, USA

Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:37 PM

I have had more than one item that did not meet my expectations, failed prematurely or just was not exactly what I needed. When I have taken said items back to West Marine they have always treated me well. When it comes to safety that is something they simply don’t mess around with.



Defender on the other hand…well I won’t even go there.



#26 oceaneer

oceaneer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Location:canada
  • Interests:racing, fast cruising,
    Vintage cars, Large diesels, steam things...

Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:49 PM

Some Swivels are good..
We have to use them on the mega yachts I work on as with all chain rode it gets twisted and then the anchor will refuse to stow its self in the anchor pocket.
I found these and they solved a bunch of out problems, so far 2 years on the last set and they are still good. ( that's anchoring for about 100 days of the year), and the set before we were getting one season before they started to bind and become useless.
http://www.quickline...tra-swivel.aspx
Dont know if they make one small enough to fit your roller, but they might

And Why West Marine.. in Victoria Trotac is so so much better and cheaper.

Thanks
Oceaneer

#27 Ishmael

Ishmael

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,305 posts
  • Location:Fuctifino

Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:56 PM

Some Swivels are good..
We have to use them on the mega yachts I work on as with all chain rode it gets twisted and then the anchor will refuse to stow its self in the anchor pocket.
I found these and they solved a bunch of out problems, so far 2 years on the last set and they are still good. ( that's anchoring for about 100 days of the year), and the set before we were getting one season before they started to bind and become useless.
http://www.quickline...tra-swivel.aspx
Dont know if they make one small enough to fit your roller, but they might

And Why West Marine.. in Victoria Trotac is so so much better and cheaper.

Thanks
Oceaneer


Well, I worked there at the time...(and Trotac is not always the cheapest, and their service frequently sucks).

#28 oceaneer

oceaneer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Location:canada
  • Interests:racing, fast cruising,
    Vintage cars, Large diesels, steam things...

Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:01 PM


Some Swivels are good..
We have to use them on the mega yachts I work on as with all chain rode it gets twisted and then the anchor will refuse to stow its self in the anchor pocket.
I found these and they solved a bunch of out problems, so far 2 years on the last set and they are still good. ( that's anchoring for about 100 days of the year), and the set before we were getting one season before they started to bind and become useless.
http://www.quickline...tra-swivel.aspx
Dont know if they make one small enough to fit your roller, but they might

And Why West Marine.. in Victoria Trotac is so so much better and cheaper.

Thanks
Oceaneer


Well, I worked there at the time...(and Trotac is not always the cheapest, and their service frequently sucks).



Ok cool, I just have a bit of a dislike for west marine, they are a bit like wallmart, they open up and all of the small chandler's seem to disappear.
Thanks for the reply.
Checked out your site, your boat is very nice!
Oceaneer



#29 kent_island_sailor

kent_island_sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,430 posts
  • Location:Kent Island!

Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:18 PM

http://www.quickline...ase_swivel.html

They make sizes all the way down to dinghy anchor chain B) ..but the price :o

*cheaper than a new boat though

#30 White Wing

White Wing

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 784 posts
  • Location:Seattle
  • Interests:Pretty much anything on the water, including skiing on the frozen stuff

Posted 30 May 2012 - 01:09 AM

Prior discussion on swivels here: clicky

I had a similar failure although in the anchor locker, so my luck was better than yours.....

WWing

#31 Ishmael

Ishmael

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,305 posts
  • Location:Fuctifino

Posted 30 May 2012 - 01:14 AM

Prior discussion on swivels here: clicky

I had a similar failure although in the anchor locker, so my luck was better than yours.....

WWing



Thanks for that, wish I had been paying attention when I read it the first time. <_<

#32 The Ghost....

The Ghost....

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 252 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, OZ

Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:57 AM

What a coincidence! Here on the other side of the world from you my anchor winch had a jamb up on the weekend. During the process of freeing the jamb, one of the pins that hold the chain fell out. My swivel was purchased from the Aussie version of WM. It has no brand but was marked with Load 1350Kg.
The reason mine failed was due to electrolysis. Last year I fitted a bonding system and it made the anchor winch area corrode a lot worse. I have since removed the winch bonding wire and put a switch on the 12v negative supply.
Will not be re-fitting a swivel either.

G

#33 Greever

Greever

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,625 posts
  • Location:Rockford, MI

Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:49 PM

Bump. :)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users