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7 inch tablet mount


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#1 allen

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:33 PM

I need a mount for a 7 inch Samsung Galaxy Tab-2. I want to mount it in the cabin and run iRegatta through some speakers so that nobody has to look at the readout. I will put crew below for the start line stuff.

It needs to be securely mounted so there is no chance it will come out with the pounding we get on a beat. I want it to attach to the boat with screws, not suction. The tablet needs to be held by something solid, not a clip over tab that I have seen on some of the online offerings. The problem I am having is that I can't tell how solid the mount is from the online descriptions. I would appreciate any help on this search.

Allen


#2 Ocean View

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:50 PM

Many options - but start looking here

http://www.rammount..../Default.aspx#/

Run through the drop down selection list and you'll find something

IMO their stuff is ordinary - but it does the job for what your after.

Another option is to use a router and route some wood with a groove to suit the tablet and then screw them to the bulkhead top and bottom - and slide the tablet into it sideways and use a locking tab or elastic strap to hold it in place.

So it's held like this

^ Wood
|
| < This is your tablet to the left
|
\/ Wood with groove

Nice and secure.

And you'll also need to be aware that the thumps of a beat will help kill it over time.

Have fun

#3 DoRag

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 03:35 PM

Allen, send a PM to Some Dude. He has used stuff from boats and probably has what you need.

#4 allen

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:24 PM

An update. I like the idea of the wood mount with the router but...

I did some testing with iRegatta for starts and it had some serious problems. The developer has been extremely responsive as we corresponded regarding his calculations. I suggested a new calculation for time to line and he implemented it. It is much better but there is still something going on with the distance to line calculation so at this point it is just not ready for me to use in a race. I will continue to work with him.

I plan to write this up on L-36.com but for now I thought I would update this post.

#5 ShockValue

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:43 PM

Are you getting position via NMEA or built in GPS?

#6 allen

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:51 PM

I am using the built in GPS on the tablet or phone. I have tried it at various times with a Nexus-One, Nexus-S, and Galaxy Tab-2 7 inch. I need to take better data before drawing any conclusions. I also am looking into getting a bluetooth GPS but have not picked one yet. Don't know enough to choose.

For now I am going to use a Garmin GPS and use one of their functions to read the distance to the line.


Allen


#7 ShockValue

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:25 PM

Android/Iphone GPSs are rumored to be slow to update and have pretty poor accuracy. I've never personally done a side by side comparison of them to a good purpose built GPS, but I wonder if that's where some of your error is coming from.

I ran iRegatta this weekend getting data from an NMEA source and didn't notice any glaring issues. However it was a drifter of a start, so it may not have shown up :)

#8 allen

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:39 PM

What I have been doing is setting a "start line" on my sidewalk on a cross street then walking down the street for 1.5 minutes, turning around, and walking back. I am getting some very poor results but I do need to take more measurements because I want to make sure I have it right before I talk more about it.

I just used GPS Test and find that the tablet gets 13 sats where the phones are getting 9. Better accuracy with the tablet.

Allen

#9 Heriberto

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:39 PM

We use these Ram x-grip mounts for our smartphones and they work very well. This is the larger size for tablets.

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#10 P2 Marine

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 01:25 AM

I need a mount for a 7 inch Samsung Galaxy Tab-2. I want to mount it in the cabin and run iRegatta through some speakers so that nobody has to look at the readout. I will put crew below for the start line stuff.

It needs to be securely mounted so there is no chance it will come out with the pounding we get on a beat. I want it to attach to the boat with screws, not suction. The tablet needs to be held by something solid, not a clip over tab that I have seen on some of the online offerings. The problem I am having is that I can't tell how solid the mount is from the online descriptions. I would appreciate any help on this search.

Allen



The simple solution? Dual Lock. I attach just about all of my IT gear to the boat with either velcro or dual lock. If you can shake a tablet loose from a scotch lock mount I'll buy you a beer...

Cheers,
Rob

#11 Heriberto

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 04:50 PM

If you stick something down with Dual lock, there are are a few things to consider. First is you had better prepare the surface very, very well because the locks hold so well you will rip the adhesive off the surface. The second is, it isn't something that you stick it on, remove it, stick it on, remove it, that stuff is so strong it's actually a bitch to get something off. Third is it isn't adjustable like the X-grip where you can change the angle if you move.

I think that stuff is very good for basically semi-permanently mounting something heavier like a laptop. Or, you could use it to mount an X-Grip Ram mount....



#12 allen

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 05:02 PM

If you stick something down with Dual lock, there are are a few things to consider. First is you had better prepare the surface very, very well because the locks hold so well you will rip the adhesive off the surface. The second is, it isn't something that you stick it on, remove it, stick it on, remove it, that stuff is so strong it's actually a bitch to get something off. Third is it isn't adjustable like the X-grip where you can change the angle if you move.

I think that stuff is very good for basically semi-permanently mounting something heavier like a laptop. Or, you could use it to mount an X-Grip Ram mount....



I could use Velcro but I don't really want it permanently stuck to the back of my tablet as I use it at home as well. I definitely need to take it off the boat between races as the salty air tends to ruin anything that is not marine grade and even some things that are.

Allen

#13 NoseDownComputing

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:22 PM

I did some testing with iRegatta for starts and it had some serious problems. The developer has been extremely responsive as we corresponded regarding his calculations. I suggested a new calculation for time to line and he implemented it. It is much better but there is still something going on with the distance to line calculation so at this point it is just not ready for me to use in a race. I will continue to work with him.


...trying to do some polite advertising here. Allen, why don't you give our Start2Win app a try? We spent a long time on the calculations and we think they're perfect now! It is just as precise as the GPS can get. I'd be interested about hearing your results because you can compare several apps.
We also have free sailing apps.

#14 TheOffice

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:38 PM

try Zarcor.com

#15 The Dude

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:16 PM

Have a look at the Railblaza line of products from NZL.

#16 NoseDownComputing

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:38 PM

try Zarcor.com

Thanks, Office!

#17 allen

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:47 PM


I did some testing with iRegatta for starts and it had some serious problems. The developer has been extremely responsive as we corresponded regarding his calculations. I suggested a new calculation for time to line and he implemented it. It is much better but there is still something going on with the distance to line calculation so at this point it is just not ready for me to use in a race. I will continue to work with him.


...trying to do some polite advertising here. Allen, why don't you give our Start2Win app a try? We spent a long time on the calculations and we think they're perfect now! It is just as precise as the GPS can get. I'd be interested about hearing your results because you can compare several apps.
We also have free sailing apps.


I saw your app and it looks interesting. However, I have also been developing my own and using it in racing all summer. I finally got it to the point where it got me to the line right at the gun and I can tell you that is much more difficult than the calculations. I have not decided if I will offer it in the Play Store or not. Right now a few people have it in beta test. It isn't fancy with pictures like yours, just BIG numbers that are easy to see. As slow as sail boat racing is, it sure seems fast when you are actually doing it. I didn't get your app because it looked like it was based on boat speed and direction in determining when you will get to the line and I have just not found that useful in race conditions. Correct me if I am wrong.

#18 Wet Spreaders

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:25 PM

What I have been doing is setting a "start line" on my sidewalk on a cross street then walking down the street for 1.5 minutes, turning around, and walking back. I am getting some very poor results but I do need to take more measurements because I want to make sure I have it right before I talk more about it.

I just used GPS Test and find that the tablet gets 13 sats where the phones are getting 9. Better accuracy with the tablet.

Allen


We use the GPS from our boat's NKE setup and the DIgitalyacht combo WiLAN/AIS device with iRegatta for starts. Works very well if I have someone coach me through the start - "faster/slower" etc. It's lousy if I try to read the display and drive at the same time.




#19 NoseDownComputing

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:15 PM

I didn't get your app because it looked like it was based on boat speed and direction in determining when you will get to the line and I have just not found that useful in race conditions. Correct me if I am wrong.

Allen,
sure the calculations are based on the speed and direction we get from the GPS. What else can they be based on?
About the usefulness: We have features like AudioVario and speech output, so you don't have to have your device holding in your hands. Here are some tips for the usage:
http://www.nosedownc...w-best-practice

Does that answer your questions?
What do you use for the calculations?

#20 allen

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:11 PM


I didn't get your app because it looked like it was based on boat speed and direction in determining when you will get to the line and I have just not found that useful in race conditions. Correct me if I am wrong.

Allen,
sure the calculations are based on the speed and direction we get from the GPS. What else can they be based on?
About the usefulness: We have features like AudioVario and speech output, so you don't have to have your device holding in your hands. Here are some tips for the usage:
http://www.nosedownc...w-best-practice

Does that answer your questions?
What do you use for the calculations?


Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I have been busy releasing my app to the Google Play market. It is called StartLine. I wrote it because I could not get a good start using speed and direction based apps like iRegatta and BC Racer. I also found that distance based instruments like Rock Box Blue, which I reviewed for L-36.com, did not help. I needed to know how long it was going to take me to get to the line once I started my run toward it regardless of what direction I was headed at the time. I think small boats are fine with just distance as Velocitek claims. I think that is the market for Rock Box Blue, which is excellent by the way.

I calculate the time to the line based on distance to the line and the speed and direction you plan on traveling once you head toward the line. I call this target speed although it has been pointed out to me that it not the same target speed that is often talked about. It is a speed measured during the prestart in the conditions you will be racing in.

The problem with using the actual speed and direction is that, for example, how is that useful if you are heading away from the line like for example if you are doing a Vanderbilt start? StartLine will tell you when it is time to tack and head back to the line.

StartLine also has waypoints but that is a another topic.

I have looked at your app and it is very different than mine. They probably could not be more different as I have said mine has all the sex appeal of a knot meter. Yours has maps and graphics and speech and looks very sexy. I found in testing apps such as iRegatta that you just cannot see the display in bright sunlight so very high contrast easy to see readouts were a major design goal. Anyway, I don't think they compete and more choices if a good thing for the sailing community.

By the way, on your best practices. Practicing on a bicycle is not even close to what happens on a race course. Other boats really change things. Been there, done that. You really need to use it during a race. That is where I had the most problems with all the apps I tested including early versions of StartLine.

Allen
L-36.com

#21 allen

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:17 PM

I started this thread asking about how to mount a tablet to run iRegatta. I ended up writing my own Android app, StartLine, as discussed above but I thought I should talk about how I ended up mounting the tablet. I used a case I purchased from Amazon and attached Velcro to the back of the case. A plywood back has the mating Velcro on it and that is attached to a half pipe that mates to a post below deck. Velcro straps hold the half pipe to the post. Just posting this to close the loop on the original topic.
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#22 nobody.really

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:25 AM

I wish I had an Android phone. That display is right on. Less is more in a prestart.

#23 allen

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:40 AM

I wish I had an Android phone. That display is right on. Less is more in a prestart.


Thanks.

A 7 inch tablet is $200. Probably too big for cockpit use. $300 will get you a top of the line brand new Nexus-4. No contract, great phone. Just ordered one. Should get it Monday. StartLine will run on a Nexus-One and they are around $100 on eBay.

Allen

#24 nobody.really

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:27 PM

Yeah, the old 4 is starting to get a little flaky. May be time to try an Android. Or I could maybe dedicate a used Android device as timer. It's great to have so many options these days.

I've tried to a few iApps when racing/practicing and (as you have noted in other posts) there is just too much going on in the displays. If your only job is as tactician than maybe that works (and you can shade the display) but if you are at the helm forget it. If I spend 30 seconds trying to find what I want on the screen the boat is no longer on the wind. I think there are ways to use color and symbols but only in the most simple ways. Numbers that turn red or green, triangles that flip up or down, that kind of thing. But they should never detract from the main purpose. If they do, lose them.

Your display just struck me as something someone actually arrived at using it in real racing. It wasn't influenced by what you thought might be needed to make it sell.

#25 allen

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:54 PM

Yeah, the old 4 is starting to get a little flaky. May be time to try an Android. Or I could maybe dedicate a used Android device as timer. It's great to have so many options these days.

I've tried to a few iApps when racing/practicing and (as you have noted in other posts) there is just too much going on in the displays. If your only job is as tactician than maybe that works (and you can shade the display) but if you are at the helm forget it. If I spend 30 seconds trying to find what I want on the screen the boat is no longer on the wind. I think there are ways to use color and symbols but only in the most simple ways. Numbers that turn red or green, triangles that flip up or down, that kind of thing. But they should never detract from the main purpose. If they do, lose them.

Your display just struck me as something someone actually arrived at using it in real racing. It wasn't influenced by what you thought might be needed to make it sell.


You are correct that my display was arrived at using real racing. The problem with colors is that to get a red, for example, you turn down blue and green. That means the display is dimmer. I tested many combinations in bright sunlight and found that black and white were the way to go. I made an app with two fields, one black on white and one white on black. They were close with white on black being a little better in my opinion but with it also having lower battery drain I went with that. Instead of colors and such, I rely on the time to burn readout. There you are looking to see that you have 0 seconds to burn. If it says 0 you are not early or late. It is a lot easier to figure out if you are early or late looking at that then it is to see if one number is larger than another.

The problems I had with other apps were 1) Can't see the display. 2) Can't figure out if you hit the button or not because your finger is covering the subtle feedback. These two things let to user errors under race conditions and spoiled several tests. My conclusion was that I get quite a bit more stupid during a prestart and can't do simple things that I can easily do while riding a bicycle with no hands across a busy street while working an app on my phone :-)

The next set of problems was that once I got past that, the algorithms for time to the line just didn't work in race conditions. They just jump all over the place as you dodge other boats and change course to burn off speed. After I fixed the algorithm for time to the line, the problem was that knowing you are early or late is not good enough. If you are early or late at 30 seconds to go in a boat like mine you are screwed. What you need is a way to get set up before you start to head to the line. The final piece was that you need to consider the time it takes to transition from the setup (running parallel to the line for example) to the run to the line. Basically, it is a very difficult problem and things like other boats are a big deal in a start and make all the difference in the world.

We did 17 races this season. I tried a different thing every race many of which I wrote about. We had a total of 22 points in these 17 races btw.

Allen

#26 nobody.really

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:30 PM

Been checking out the options for a switch to an Android device. Not as painful as I thought it would be. Definitely a good chance of a switch.

So the color thing is a hardware problem. Have to go with daylight readability over color in that case.

My boat is slow to accelerate which may be similar to your issue. You don't want to be making big changes in speed in the final minute. I'll get the app when/if I make the switch. Thanks for the background. I've been a frequent visitor to the L-36.com weather page in the past. Just added it back to my shortcuts (new Samsung S9 laptop).

#27 allen

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:50 PM

Been checking out the options for a switch to an Android device. Not as painful as I thought it would be. Definitely a good chance of a switch.

So the color thing is a hardware problem. Have to go with daylight readability over color in that case.

My boat is slow to accelerate which may be similar to your issue. You don't want to be making big changes in speed in the final minute. I'll get the app when/if I make the switch. Thanks for the background. I've been a frequent visitor to the L-36.com weather page in the past. Just added it back to my shortcuts (new Samsung S9 laptop).


Thanks. When you get it, let me know if you have any questions. Many of the features in it are due to questions from the beta testers. I am always looking for ways to make it better.

The weather page is always improving as well. The latest change was links to maps that show the locations of the tide charts. Previous to that was a change that was requested by the Coast Guard. I think it is very cool that the Coast Guard uses L-36.com for search and rescue.

Allen

#28 NoseDownComputing

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:54 AM

StartLine will tell you when it is time to tack and head back to the line.

I have looked at your app and it is very different than mine. They probably could not be more different as I have said mine has all the sex appeal of a knot meter. Yours has maps and graphics and speech and looks very sexy. I found in testing apps such as iRegatta that you just cannot see the display in bright sunlight so very high contrast easy to see readouts were a major design goal. Anyway, I don't think they compete and more choices if a good thing for the sailing community.

By the way, on your best practices. Practicing on a bicycle is not even close to what happens on a race course. Other boats really change things. Been there, done that. You really need to use it during a race. That is where I had the most problems with all the apps I tested including early versions of StartLine.

Allen
L-36.com


Hi Allen,

congrats for your release!

I'm just curious how you calculate the time when you have to tack and head to the start line. For my understanding, you have to assume a velocitiy by which you sail towards the line. How do you evaluate that velocity?

Sure, our apps look completely different. We also have a pure data view, as you can see in the screenshot below. But we actually think that the display shouldn't be used too much because it distracts from sailing. That's why we implemented speech output and acoustic signals.

The tip of practising with a bike is just to get to know the app - not to practice an actual race start!

Johannes

#29 NoseDownComputing

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:55 AM

Screenshot

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#30 allen

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:43 PM


StartLine will tell you when it is time to tack and head back to the line.

I have looked at your app and it is very different than mine. They probably could not be more different as I have said mine has all the sex appeal of a knot meter. Yours has maps and graphics and speech and looks very sexy. I found in testing apps such as iRegatta that you just cannot see the display in bright sunlight so very high contrast easy to see readouts were a major design goal. Anyway, I don't think they compete and more choices if a good thing for the sailing community.

By the way, on your best practices. Practicing on a bicycle is not even close to what happens on a race course. Other boats really change things. Been there, done that. You really need to use it during a race. That is where I had the most problems with all the apps I tested including early versions of StartLine.

Allen
L-36.com


Hi Allen,

congrats for your release!

I'm just curious how you calculate the time when you have to tack and head to the start line. For my understanding, you have to assume a velocitiy by which you sail towards the line. How do you evaluate that velocity?

Sure, our apps look completely different. We also have a pure data view, as you can see in the screenshot below. But we actually think that the display shouldn't be used too much because it distracts from sailing. That's why we implemented speech output and acoustic signals.

The tip of practising with a bike is just to get to know the app - not to practice an actual race start!

Johannes


To answer your question, you measure the closing velocity to the line on a practice run during the pre-start. It is one of the setup screens. For the final tack to the line, you tack when your time to burn is equal to the time it takes the boat to tack and accelerate, something that must also be either known (ideally) or measured in the prestart. Basically, if you make a practice run at the line you can gather all the information you need. There are four main readouts on the race start screen. A quick glance every now and then and you can pick off the number that is relevant to the part of the pre-start you are in. I personally found voice too slow in that it has to announce what the field is, then the number, then go on to the next. It might take 10 seconds to read off four numbers. It takes less than a second to glance at a display and pick off the number you are interested in. Below is the race start screen and that will help you see what I am talking about.

As an example on the screen below, let's say you are doing a modified Vanderbilt start. You have positioned your boat 9 seconds from the layline as that is where you want to start. You have been traveling away from the line adjusting your heading to keep the layline at L0:09. You know it takes 15 seconds to gybe and accelerate. You see 15 seconds on the time to burn readout so it is time to gybe and head to the line. This is the start you saw the winning boats use in the fleet races in the America's Cut Series. All the other boats were jammed on the line and the two US boats would start from way back and hit the line at full speed.

Basically, my number one design goal was to have a readout you could see in daylight conditions on a phone in a bright cockpit. All my initial testing was done looking at fonts, font colors, and such. That led me to the conclusion that white lettering on black background was the easiest to see. I have not tried your app but I found iRegatta impossible to use in bright light for a race start. You just plain cannot see the buttons. And even if you guess from memory where they are, you can't tell if you hit them from the display because your finger is over the feedback toast. BC Racer is much better in that regard and I was able to use it. From that I realized that the time to the line based on speed and heading just didn't work. I talked to the BC Racer designer and he said he never did find it useful. He was a huge help to me in writing my application. I greatly appreciate all the guidance and code he gave me. By the way, I rewrote the iRegatta start line algorithm and the author installed it in his program giving credit to L-36.com on the release notes. I changed it from a speed and direction one to a closing rate on the line. That greatly improved it during my walking on the street testing but unfortunately because I could not read the display in daylight, could not test it during a race. He may have a different one in there now as I see he has made some changes. The point is, I have been working on this stuff for a long time.

Allen

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#31 VALIS

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:23 PM

Screenshot

Since we're discussing U.I. and colors, you should find someone with red/green color deficiency and have them review your displays (I have it, as do many men). The red on black display you show is difficult for me to use. I can see it, but I find it hard to focus on the red digits. What looks easy and obvious to normal people can be really tough for us "differently-visioned" folks. And not all red/green deficiencies are the same -- I've learned that there are several different types, each with subtle differences and responses. There are other color deficiencies, but red/green is by far the most common one.

There ought to be an app that simulates different color-vision deficiencies so you normal people could see what I'm talking about.

#32 J24Soup

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:29 PM

Many options - but start looking here

http://www.rammount..../Default.aspx#/

Run through the drop down selection list and you'll find something

IMO their stuff is ordinary - but it does the job for what your after.

Another option is to use a router and route some wood with a groove to suit the tablet and then screw them to the bulkhead top and bottom - and slide the tablet into it sideways and use a locking tab or elastic strap to hold it in place.

So it's held like this

^ Wood
|
| < This is your tablet to the left
|
\/ Wood with groove

Nice and secure.

And you'll also need to be aware that the thumps of a beat will help kill it over time.

Have fun


+1 for the RAM Mount products. Can re-leverage parts (arms, ball mounts, etc.) for different applications, and for many items have custom fitted holders.

#33 allen

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:31 PM


Screenshot

Since we're discussing U.I. and colors, you should find someone with red/green color deficiency and have them review your displays (I have it, as do many men). The red on black display you show is difficult for me to use. I can see it, but I find it hard to focus on the red digits. What looks easy and obvious to normal people can be really tough for us "differently-visioned" folks. And not all red/green deficiencies are the same -- I've learned that there are several different types, each with subtle differences and responses. There are other color deficiencies, but red/green is by far the most common one.

There ought to be an app that simulates different color-vision deficiencies so you normal people could see what I'm talking about.


Another advantage to white on black? I also have found that red displays have become increasingly difficult to read as I age. That is something the older people in the lab used to complain about when I was young that I always thought was silly.

#34 NoseDownComputing

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:46 PM

hmm good point. Maybe we should mix some white into our colors!




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