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Racing boat having a SERIOUS problem


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#1 Balder

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:36 AM

http://thestandard.c...5256&con_type=1

Yowza, how does that happen, I would like to see some pics

#2 Danno

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 01:58 AM

Pics here

Attached Files



#3 corkob

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 04:30 AM

Insurers must be getting very nervous about covering the designers builders and owners of these large racing yachts. Rambler 100, Bounder, Jelik almost all VOR 70's to one degree or another have suffered serious failures.

#4 Raked aft \\

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 12:58 AM

Insurers must be getting very nervous about covering the designers builders and owners of these large racing yachts. Rambler 100, Bounder, Jelik almost all VOR 70's to one degree or another have suffered serious failures.



manufacturers defect & design flaws are commonly excluded from marine policies. I would be surprised if any insurers paid claims on the boats mentioned.

#5 corkob

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:30 AM

Are you suggesting that boat builders do not carry defective product liability insurance cover?

#6 Who's your daddy

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 10:23 AM

Are you suggesting that boat builders do not carry defective product liability insurance cover?

Hard if not impossible in most cases to prove why it failed. Design, build or misuse? Take a road car to a track day and your warranty and insurance won't cover you. Take a boat sailing and the pros will push it as hard as they can. Proving whether they pushed too hard or whether something broke before they pushed as hard as expected and designed/built for is a very hard thing to prove.

#7 auscat

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:35 AM

Insurers must be getting very nervous about covering the designers builders and owners of these large racing yachts. Rambler 100, Bounder, Jelik almost all VOR 70's to one degree or another have suffered serious failures.



Almost starting to make multihulls look safe:ph34r:

#8 Raked aft \\

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:13 PM

Are you suggesting that boat builders do not carry defective product liability insurance cover?


My initial comment was pertaining to the boat owners policy.

The builder may or may not carry products liability coverage. But the BG incident would not be covered by that.
you would need to have a bodily injury or property damage to trigger that coverage. ( a crack in the hull would not be
an example of a property damage)

The builder may also have a warranty type policy for their products, but it would be highly doubtful as the premium
would be astronomical vs the cost to repair a manufacturers defect on a single hull. That coverage is designed for manufacturers who
have thousands of units in the market which could have a defect, where their recal and replacement/repair cost would put
the Co out of biz...

#9 corkob

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:10 PM

If a boat can be proven to have been built to a lesser specification to her design specification do you think that the builder could be liable for the loss of the boat? I would have thought that it would be very hard for a builder to protect himself in such circumstances by exemption provisions. Most countries recognize that if there is a fundamental breach of contract you cannot avoid the consequences. Similarly, if an engineer under specs a component in a boat and it fails I would think that he would be in a difficulty. In the case in hand a floating hull is a very worrying situation for builder, designer and insurer.

#10 corkob

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:39 PM

Less room for argument!!

#11 DickDastardly

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:14 AM

Classic fatigue failure:

Structure fails in normal use, with no obvious sign of an extraordinary load ("it was just a normal wave, not a huge one")
Structure fails with little or no warning
Structure fails catastrophically
Structure shows no previous visible sign of degradation

Design specifications are usually load related. FED / CFD can't model fatigue, just static and maybe impact loads. If BG is a fatigue failure - and theres a good chance it is, then the fact that the boat has sailed 55,000 miles or more has to be a major factor.

Did the design specs anticipate that level of programmed use? Were they even asked to? Did the owner decide he loves sailing the boat so much that it's done many more miles than originally envisaged? Did delivery miles eat up the structure's fatigue life? Could the designer have envisaged that?

From another angle: brittle structures are inherently fatigue prone. Fact. Many new composite marine structures are using relatively new materials and techniques. Fact. These new styles of boats perform vastly differently to older design types and go vastly faster, generating many more and more complex load cases. Fact. Is it possible that the fatigue lives of these structures are simply not yet well understood by designers and structural engineers?

I wonder how many of the VO70 failures are fatigue related? Sometomes sailing a boat for months beforehand to test it in the run up to a big event is the last thing you want to be doing.

Movistar? Rambler? Sanya? Plenty more...

#12 Swanno (Ohf Shore)

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 03:41 AM

Classic fatigue failure:

Structure fails in normal use, with no obvious sign of an extraordinary load ("it was just a normal wave, not a huge one")
Structure fails with little or no warning
Structure fails catastrophically
Structure shows no previous visible sign of degradation

Design specifications are usually load related. FED / CFD can't model fatigue, just static and maybe impact loads. If BG is a fatigue failure - and theres a good chance it is, then the fact that the boat has sailed 55,000 miles or more has to be a major factor.

Did the design specs anticipate that level of programmed use? Were they even asked to? Did the owner decide he loves sailing the boat so much that it's done many more miles than originally envisaged? Did delivery miles eat up the structure's fatigue life? Could the designer have envisaged that?

From another angle: brittle structures are inherently fatigue prone. Fact. Many new composite marine structures are using relatively new materials and techniques. Fact. These new styles of boats perform vastly differently to older design types and go vastly faster, generating many more and more complex load cases. Fact. Is it possible that the fatigue lives of these structures are simply not yet well understood by designers and structural engineers?

I wonder how many of the VO70 failures are fatigue related? Sometomes sailing a boat for months beforehand to test it in the run up to a big event is the last thing you want to be doing.

Movistar? Rambler? Sanya? Plenty more...


It does make you wonder, how many of the new breed of yachts will be around in 15-20 years? How will backpacker operations live without the steady flow of 15-20 year old racing boats

#13 corkob

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 06:13 AM

Considering these type of failures maybe the backpacker operations are as well off.

#14 Carboninit

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 08:11 AM

That will buff out. Thats simular to Nokia Zana Lahana when she pulled out of the Sydney Hobart with failure. How much do you cut out of that to be repaired?

#15 thetruth

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:30 AM

Exactly. So many pussys on this site.

#16 thetruth

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:24 AM

4 days later the boat is anchored in Norfolk Island.Professional crew still there. Has not sunk so yet again why all this drama that it is fucked? Where did that miss informationcomr from?

#17 Zonker

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:50 AM

Generally in design/build contracts I have seen Owner agrees that this is a RACING boat and as such is inherently designed to absolute limit blah blah... and no liability shall attach to the designer or builder in case of failure. I agree that if the builder forgot a few layers of carbon there might be a case for the Owner, but if the boat was built to design it's hard to get the designer to pay anything.

#18 Liquid

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 06:49 PM

Has not sunk so yet again why all this drama that it is fucked?


From the pics I've seen - it looks fucked to me! when a boat has a crack across the deck, down the sides and under the boat - that's fucked!

#19 Danno

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:15 AM

So anyway, rumour has it that the weather is turning to shit in Norfolk and the boats there will have to leave. I understand icebreaker has had repairs done to the bulkhead and will head to NZ for further remedy then to hamilton island. I also understand that a crew of boat builders from NZ re working on bg to get her into a position where she may be capable of heading back to NZ. Will e interesting to see how this goes!

#20 thetruth

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:20 AM

Where did you hear that Danno? Boat is definitely coming back



So anyway, rumour has it that the weather is turning to shit in Norfolk and the boats there will have to leave. I understand icebreaker has had repairs done to the bulkhead and will head to NZ for further remedy then to hamilton island. I also understand that a crew of boat builders from NZ re working on bg to get her into a position where she may be capable of heading back to NZ. Will e interesting to see how this goes!



#21 Tugboat

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 07:20 AM

That will buff out. Thats simular to Nokia Zana Lahana when she pulled out of the Sydney Hobart with failure. How much do you cut out of that to be repaired?


Zana was never Nokia.

Zana - Konica Minolta - Lahana

#22 Danno

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:14 PM

Where did you hear that Danno? Boat is definitely coming back




So anyway, rumour has it that the weather is turning to shit in Norfolk and the boats there will have to leave. I understand icebreaker has had repairs done to the bulkhead and will head to NZ for further remedy then to hamilton island. I also understand that a crew of boat builders from NZ re working on bg to get her into a position where she may be capable of heading back to NZ. Will e interesting to see how this goes!


You are correct. My bad. BG heading to NZ after a Dave Norris bandaid job.
Icebreaker now heading to Brisbane

#23 Change

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:44 PM

Lahana broke again a couple of Sydney southports ago, more weight put in!!




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