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VOR Leg 8


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#701 Cyrille Hydrogene

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:17 AM

The Sodebo trimaran is on the water near Groupama, to welcome its skipper, Thomas Coville! :)

#702 Mash

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:18 AM


are these three headsails (and a reefed main) on G4 ?


Yes. Why?


Just that I didn't realize before that it was a common configuration. Masthead jib / code + a staysail, sure, but having all the laundry out like this makes for a crowded foredeck.

That being said, nothing more in my comment than me discovering the world ;-)

#703 couchsurfer

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:19 AM

..........whooo-Hooooo!!

Attached File  who-h.jpg   218.85K   98 downloadsAttached File  who-hooo2.jpg   187.16K   50 downloads

#704 harzak

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:19 AM

Camper covering Puma nicely. It's all clear now isn't it:

1. Groupama
2. Camper
3. Puma
4. Abu Dhabi

What a dream result for Groupama.

(Edit: Barring any accidents etc. when Camper gybe)

#705 Indio

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:26 AM

..........whooo-Hooooo!!

Attached File  who-h.jpg   218.85K   98 downloadsAttached File  who-hooo2.jpg   187.16K   50 downloads


Reminds me of the TP52 Attached File  ETNZ-TP52.jpg   10.21K   19 downloads

#706 Briac

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:28 AM

What a great day!

#707 Cyrille Hydrogene

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:32 AM

Well done Cammas and Groupama! What a way to win in their home town !!

#708 Polar_William

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:32 AM

Funny, those very excited french on the livestream :rolleyes: (and why shouldn't they)
Congratulations !!!

#709 Briac

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:33 AM

Champagne!

#710 Indio

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:33 AM

Congratulations Groupama!! Well-deserved....

#711 Sail IC

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:33 AM

Really enjoy listening to the french commetary .... what a feeling for the crew

#712 harzak

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:35 AM

Congratulations to Groupama!

#713 supine

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:38 AM

Was that "Highway to Hell" that came on as they crossed?!?

#714 Cyrille Hydrogene

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:41 AM

Really enjoy listening to the french commetary .... what a feeling for the crew


Commentary was by Jimmy Pahun, a famous French sailor (multi winner of the tour de France) and Pierre-Yves Lautrou (a journalist) on the water.

#715 Tracker Foo

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:44 AM

Funny, those very excited french on the livestream :rolleyes: (and why shouldn't they)


Well, you are lucky if you are not understanding french. What a dumbasss guy the main commentator!
hopefully, there was some other good contributors.

For those who followed the live stream, maybe you noticed the Groupama 3 with wich Cammas broke The 24h run (794nmi in 2007)
current reccord belong now to "Banque Populaire V" with more than 900 nm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banque_Populaire_V to see the monster
(speaking of multi-hull naturally)

#716 A Florida Redneck

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:46 AM

Was that "Highway to Hell" that came on as they crossed?!?


G4's theme song for this regatta. Each team has one and they play them during the stopovers (during crew intros, etc.)
Maybe someone has a list of the others.

#717 The Main Man

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:46 AM

Merde. Work IE browser too old for the new livestream to work....oh well - Congrats on a great leg by Groupama!

#718 Mash

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:46 AM

I think we saw Armel's IMOCA Banque Pop being out there too...

M

#719 yl75

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:48 AM

Well, you are lucky if you are not understanding french. What a dumbasss guy the main commentator!
hopefully, there was some other good contributors.




lol, kind of true, who is he ?
But at least we have some video !

#720 Mexican

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:48 AM

..........whooo-Hooooo!!

Attached File  who-h.jpg   218.85K   98 downloads

Fuck that's a great shot. Very launched.

I have a soft spot for Camper. They've journeyed the road less travelled.

Not to say that other teams haven't... just a great outcome for a top bunch of blokes.

I feel for the Telefonica guys. Memories of Movistar... so much promise...

A great year for French ocean exploits. Take it home, Groupama!

Mex

#721 mosailn

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:48 AM

The turnout is awesome..wish I was there.

#722 Pierre S

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:57 AM

Wish the commentator didn't lay it on so thick.

#723 supine

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:59 AM

The turnout is awesome..wish I was there.


Showing Miami how you welcome a winning home team.

Just a pity that the plane is so focused on G4 even though they have finished. Nothing of the other boats.

#724 trt

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:59 AM

Wish the commentator didn't lay it on so thick.


The French answer to PJ Montgomery !

#725 DickDastardly

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:03 PM

Wish the commentator didn't lay it on so thick.

He's hit the 4th mode

#726 A Florida Redneck

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:06 PM

Great win G4 and Franck!
Looking like a good result for Camper and Nico.
Well done.
Tracker shows Puma ahead of Camper but that can't possibly be can it?

#727 supine

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:08 PM


Wish the commentator didn't lay it on so thick.

He's hit the 4th mode

I think he's gone past ludicrous speed and into plaid.

#728 tamaozy

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:22 PM

Why isnt this last mark on the tracker??? I was very confused for a while...

#729 Moonduster

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:24 PM

What last mark ... there's just the finish line

#730 tamaozy

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:25 PM

no that is why they have all headed to the north side of the channel

#731 Gorn FRANTIC!!

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:27 PM

Great win G4 and Franck!
Looking like a good result for Camper and Nico.
Well done.
Tracker shows Puma ahead of Camper but that can't possibly be can it?

I think its a TFU from the last position report. Go live and it shows the actual position

#732 Icedtea

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:29 PM

One thing's for sure, I would hate to be with the tellytubbies right now.


~Broken rudder with the race down the can.

Can't be a good feeling!

#733 ILYA_Fan

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:34 PM


Rad live interview from Telephone... wicked to hear Pepe describe the first starboard rudder breakage, swapping in a new rudder, then the port rudder cracked, then chinese fucking gybe and break the replacement starboard rudder.... how you say in espanol... JEEBUS LARRY that's fucking gnarly dude! When it rains it pours.


They were probably pushing too hard and eventually paid for it but I am gobsmacked by the change of rudder in an hour, this is simply amazing! Yesterday when the first tweet came out I thought that they were talking of the wheel or something inside the boat, I just couldn't consider that you could change a rudder at sea in a gale in so little time!


Agreed, that's an amazing accomplishment in itself.

The part that's surprising is a series of mistakes by the people who were driving (obviously a broach can be the fault of someone not easing fast enough, but the helmsman is still in position to avoid all of the following):

1. First they broached, to break the original starboard rudder

2. Then the port rudder cracks during the big gybe (right?)

3. While inspecting the port rudder damage, they chinese gybe and destroy the new starboard rudder

It's all easy for me to say while driving my chair at 0 knots.... but dammit Fernando, Hulio and Engelbert, you need to keep a steady hand on the wheel, mates.

#734 harzak

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:38 PM

And congrats to Camper for a well held leverage and second place.

Hopefully we'll hear about all the breakages and other problems when they're all in. My gut feeling is that Puma's had some sort of problem too.

#735 ~HHN92~

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:46 PM

Anybody care to hear more AC/DC? Play it again, Sam.....................


Great leg, wish the Puma boys could have done better, but they are at least in the hunt. Great job by Group, they're in a strong position now. I take it Tele had more rudder problems?

#736 nixon

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:06 PM

Anybody care to hear more AC/DC? Play it again, Sam.....................


Great leg, wish the Puma boys could have done better, but they are at least in the hunt. Great job by Group, they're in a strong position now. I take it Tele had more rudder problems?


So much Acca Dacca the Aussies must have won the leg! (Well Brad at least)

#737 Mexican

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:14 PM

And congrats to Camper for a well held leverage and second place.

Hopefully we'll hear about all the breakages and other problems when they're all in. My gut feeling is that Puma's had some sort of problem too.

Camper lost 6 nm in one hour not far from the finish too. I'm sure they all had their moments. Great footage of Nico getting washed off the wheel and laughing about it.

Mex

#738 Panoramix

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:41 PM

Well, you are lucky if you are not understanding french. What a dumbasss guy the main commentator!
hopefully, there was some other good contributors.


I am not sure I would call Jimmy a dumbass, Iif you race, you are quite likely to see his stern!

#739 the loose cannon

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 02:19 PM

I feel for the Puma guys, in the innerview, Capt. Kenny talked about the decision on which sails they would fly for safety sake going into the storm and I think that may have been why they were on a higher course into and out of the jibe. They got to switch up the sails on the run in, but I think that was what did it. 12 minutes worth... GOSH that is harsh after all that work.

On the flip side, my hats off to the Camper gang who hung tight to the turn at the Azores and then SENT IT HARD - probably harder than anyone else despite G4 and Teletubbies going faster. I think you will find some of the iconic images of this lap of the planet will be of Camper on this leg. Thanks for all the folks with the updates yesterday - this is definitely the one place on the planet for the news (and speculation.)

#740 Cyrille Hydrogene

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 02:45 PM


The turnout is awesome..wish I was there.


Showing Miami how you welcome a winning home team.

Just a pity that the plane is so focused on G4 even though they have finished. Nothing of the other boats.


It seems the live video feed, with strange technical overlays, was from a French military surveillance plane. Any info on that?

#741 yl75

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 03:07 PM

It seems the live video feed, with strange technical overlays, was from a French military surveillance plane. Any info on that?


Yes also think so, but have no info on it.

An interview vid on BFM before the arrival :
http://www.dailymoti...nt_news?fbc=684

And on france 3 bretagne after arrival :



and before :



Another one from the arrival :



#742 Alysum

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 03:17 PM


It seems the live video feed, with strange technical overlays, was from a French military surveillance plane. Any info on that?


Yes also think so, but have no info on it.

An interview vid on BFM before the arrival :
http://www.dailymoti...nt_news?fbc=684

and before :



That's a beautiful video thanks for sharing :)

#743 umpire

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:03 PM

Champagne!


Got ot be, the beer tent is not open yet!!

#744 umpire

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:07 PM



It seems the live video feed, with strange technical overlays, was from a French military surveillance plane. Any info on that?


Yes also think so, but have no info on it.

An interview vid on BFM before the arrival :
http://www.dailymoti...nt_news?fbc=684

and before :



That's a beautiful video thanks for sharing :)


Could not agree more. They were 20 miles in the lead and still going for it. Incredible.

#745 tacksea

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:13 PM

^ +1 , I'm always amazed when I see this type of videos (VOR and others), show how good these crews and boats are.

#746 umpire

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:15 PM

Groupama 4 aka the Lean Green Racing Machine.

#747 edelweis

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:21 PM

no that is why they have all headed to the north side of the channel


Did ADOR make it arround there, too?
(or is it a rounding error on the tracker?)

#748 umpire

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:26 PM




It seems the live video feed, with strange technical overlays, was from a French military surveillance plane. Any info on that?


Yes also think so, but have no info on it.

An interview vid on BFM before the arrival :
http://www.dailymoti...nt_news?fbc=684

and before :



That's a beautiful video thanks for sharing :)


Could not agree more. They were 20 miles in the lead and still going for it. Incredible.


Great reception in Lorient, despite the weather. Note the daunting/scary submarine pens behing them.

#749 Panoramix

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:40 PM

Note the daunting/scary submarine pens behing them.


It was built by the Germans during WWII, the concrete is so thick that the city council decided they couldn't really demolish it. The allies virtually flattened the city trying to get rid of the submarine base. During my national service (late 90's so 50 years after) my ship found an anti submarine mine nearby that had been dropped by the RAF.

There is another one in Brest which roof was breached by a RAF plane which had to fly under a bridge and slalom between the harbour cranes to reach and bomb its target

#750 TheDragon

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:41 PM



It seems the live video feed, with strange technical overlays, was from a French military surveillance plane. Any info on that?


Yes also think so, but have no info on it.

An interview vid on BFM before the arrival :
http://www.dailymoti...nt_news?fbc=684

and before :



That's a beautiful video thanks for sharing :)


Are they carrying so much sail up front because they could not shake out the last reef in the main? Or would that be their standard configuration for reaching in 20+?

#751 umpire

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:43 PM


Note the daunting/scary submarine pens behing them.


It was built by the Germans during WWII, the concrete is so thick that the city council decided they couldn't really demolish it. The allies virtually flattened the city trying to get rid of the submarine base. During my national service (late 90's so 50 years after) my ship found an anti submarine mine nearby that had been dropped by the RAF.

There is another one in Brest which roof was breached by a RAF plane which had to fly under a bridge and slalom between the harbour cranes to reach and bomb its target



I have been inside the pens, they have a frightening aura about them

#752 Cyrille Hydrogene

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:46 PM



It seems the live video feed, with strange technical overlays, was from a French military surveillance plane. Any info on that?


Yes also think so, but have no info on it.

An interview vid on BFM before the arrival :
http://www.dailymoti...nt_news?fbc=684

and before :



That's a beautiful video thanks for sharing :)




amazing shots of a 70 foot surfing board! Posted Image

#753 bruno

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:49 PM

Congrats to the francophone crew, well earned, kept pushing hard to make sure the main didn't become an issue, i guess. I think the differences in setup were pretty interesting and show national, individual, and boat differences at work. G4 with the 3 head rig had the inner stays'l luffing first, then the head of the jib. Maybe they used 3 sails to get the exact balance of power in the corrct position/height so the boat was balanced without a lot of trimming. Thus able to keep the crew behind the wheel in relative safety, more automatic. The kiwi-phones had a 2 sail with maybe a bigger kite, more active trim as they pushed their boat a bit harder to catch up? This also maybe a function of the J, the comparison shot with the TP52 of note.

#754 yl75

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 05:14 PM

Cammas interview at the arrival :

http://videos.letele...overlay=1&rub=0

Otherwise about the previous video, you still can tell that the hull is at the limit of truly being in a planing mode, but being truly in a planing mode with the keel weight on these boats isn't really be possible I guess, or very briefly.
Still very impressive ! :)

New one :



#755 Panoramix

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 05:54 PM

I have been inside the pens, they have a frightening aura about them


Yes, a scar from a dark episode in the history of Brittany (and of the world!) but they have recycled it now and lot of offshore racing stories start there.

#756 couchsurfer

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 05:58 PM

Groupon sailing team.....................189 ....+30...219
Team Teletubbie...........................181.....+10....191
POOOMA Ocean Racing by BERG.. ..176....+25.... 196
CAMPA with the shoeshine boyz. .166....+20....191
AbaDhabbaDhow........................107 ...+15....122
Team Sonya..............................34....+5....44

..didn't seem likely Tele would hold off Sanderson's lads,,,
,,,I'm a fan of keeping things close,,see a very exciting racing coming up,
,,,hope the french guys remember t'check the rig ;)

..certainly -anything- can happen

#757 yl75

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 06:29 PM

There are still 30 + 6 + 6 = 42 points maximum to gain for one boat

Considering g4 finishes the races, minimum 5 + 1 +1 = 7 ,
so 35 points (42-7) points difference maximum that g4 can lose

G4 has a 23 point lead on puma and camper, 28 on tele (if sanya doesn't finish ahead)
so yes anything still possible, but .. ;)

#758 umpire

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 06:37 PM

http://videos.letele...overlay=1&rub=0




Eat your heart out Miami

#759 couchsurfer

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 06:40 PM

There are still 30 + 6 + 6 = 42 points maximum to gain for one boat

Considering g4 finishes the races, minimum 5 + 1 +1 = 7 ,
so 35 points (42-7) points difference maximum that g4 can lose

G4 has a 23 point lead on puma and camper, 28 on tele (if sanya doesn't finish ahead)
so yes anything still possible, but .. ;)


....there's certainly no sport like sailing where.... ''it's not over till it's over'' ;)

#760 umpire

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:01 PM


Surely VOR will amend/bend the rules to let Tele be lifted in Lorient and get new rudders fitted.



the boat doesnt need to be lifted to change the rudders. they fitted a replacement in 25knots at sea, im pretty sure they can do a good job on the dock using the canting keel to get the rudder being changed out of the water. if it takes 45minutes at sea, it should be 10 at the dock.


Got a feeling the replacement rudders are transom mounted, not through the hull..Could be wrong though!!

#761 yl75

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:24 PM

Don't think so , was trying to see on the rudder change video if the rope at the top of the rudder had been passed through the hull before, would have to check back

#762 couchsurfer

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:27 PM

....there's certainly no sport like sailing where.... ''it's not over till it's over'' ;)


...speaking of which,,,Tele's just done their gybe,,14miles t'go,,11.6knots boatspeed,,, ,,and Sonya's going double speed with 25 miles to go :huh: :unsure: :blink: :o

#763 PonderousPelican

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:31 PM

So if Tele can't pull the boat between races does that mean they will have to sail by the finish line, suspend racing, repair and then finish? I guess it depends on how badly they are hurt.

#764 Schnick

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 08:00 PM

The boats all carry a 'real' replacement rudder that can be jammed in the proper rudder bearings from the outside, while at sea. This was done last race once or twice (Puma maybe? can't remember) and by Telefonica this time. They also have a 'oh shit' rudder that goes on the transom - this is what Sanya used after their rudder failure because that one ripped all the rudder bearing structure out of the boat and they had to patch the hole up. This is also why they had to bail on that leg instead of continuing.

#765 couchsurfer

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 08:04 PM


....there's certainly no sport like sailing where.... ''it's not over till it's over''


...speaking of which,,,Tele's just done their gybe,,14miles t'go,,11.6knots boatspeed,,, ,,and Sonya's going double speed with 25 miles to go :huh: :unsure: :blink: :o


..tele's last gybe coming up,,,
,,so long as they don't lose too much in the gybe,,they'll have 10-15 minutes over Sonya :unsure:

#766 Liquid

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 08:09 PM

you still can tell that the hull is at the limit of truly being in a planing mode, but being truly in a planing mode with the keel weight on these boats isn't really be possible I guess, or very briefly.
Still very impressive ! :)


So, the video proves that VO70's don't plane....??????

#767 PonderousPelican

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 08:43 PM

Tele finished

#768 yl75

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 09:25 PM


you still can tell that the hull is at the limit of truly being in a planing mode, but being truly in a planing mode with the keel weight on these boats isn't really be possible I guess, or very briefly.
Still very impressive ! :)


So, the video proves that VO70's don't plane....??????


Your avatar being a windsurfing board, I guess you know what planing and the limit of it is all about, so yes VO70 are always somehow at the low limit of truly planing, but this is ok, just that these video really render the tension of the keel somehow

#769 s2 alter ego

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 10:12 PM

Groupon sailing team.....................189 ....+30...219
Team Teletubbie...........................181.....+10....191
AbaDhabbaDhow........................107 ...+15....122

Yes

POOOMA Ocean Racing by BERG.. ..176....+25.... 196
CAMPA with the shoeshine boyz. .166....+20....191
Team Sonya..............................34....+5....44

Nope, for Puma 176 + 20 = 196
and for Camper 166 + 25 = 191
and for sanya 34 + 5 = 39

There are still 30 + 6 + 6 = 42 points maximum to gain for one boat

Considering g4 finishes the races, minimum 5 + 1 +1 = 7 ,
so 35 points (42-7) points difference maximum that g4 can lose

G4 has a 23 point lead on puma

Yes

and camper

nope, G4 has now 28 points lead on Camper.

, 28 on tele (if sanya doesn't finish ahead)

Yes, 28 points lead both on Camper and on Telefonica.

#770 Liquid

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 10:14 PM



you still can tell that the hull is at the limit of truly being in a planing mode, but being truly in a planing mode with the keel weight on these boats isn't really be possible I guess, or very briefly.
Still very impressive ! :)


So, the video proves that VO70's don't plane....??????


Your avatar being a windsurfing board, I guess you know what planing and the limit of it is all about, so yes VO70 are always somehow at the low limit of truly planing, but this is ok, just that these video really render the tension of the keel somehow


When they surf down a wave at 30+ knots they're not planning?

#771 Cosmic Warrior

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 10:38 PM

Who has insight on the 'mistakes' Kenny mentioned that Team Puma made? They certainly seemed a bit off the pace a lot of the time. The triple head sail configuration G4 was using in the video sure looked sweet.

#772 couchsurfer

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 10:47 PM

Who has insight on the 'mistakes' Kenny mentioned that Team Puma made? They certainly seemed a bit off the pace a lot of the time. The triple head sail configuration G4 was using in the video sure looked sweet.

....he mentioned a strategy they've adopted to sail conservatively and wait for others to crunch,,,but other than tele,,it didn't work-out so well.

...or so it seems :huh:

#773 Alysum

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 10:57 PM

After Tele broke the rudder the 1st time, I think Puma and G4 were keen to slow down to preserve the boat. G4 hoisted the J4 then Tele overtook them with heir gennaker up so G4 re-hoisted their fractionnal gennaker to chase Tele.
Maybe KR regrets not pushing harder?


#774 crashdog

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:05 PM

They waited until "the shift" to gybe, whereas Tele and Group gybed closer to the geometric point (but really, gybed to get out of building breeze). Iker's description of the strategic decision re the gybe and the building wind pressure says it best.

Regarding Campa sailing through them, that was simply positioning on the course. Campa was inside of the lift and so sailed a shorter distance, and they were leeward, and so could sail faster as the breeze moderated.

So really, two decisions, maybe even three if you count the upwind sails v the heavy air code zeros in the heavy air.

#775 tamaozy

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:58 PM

I really wish the MCM's would continue providing pics / vid / audio after each finish. There has got to be loads of stuff from the last day of each leg (not to mention the stopovers) that just hasnt seen the light of day. Dissappointing. I would be just as interested in the repairs etc that are going on as the sailing. Maybe put together a properly edited compilation of the leg etc.

#776 Asymptote

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 12:21 AM




you still can tell that the hull is at the limit of truly being in a planing mode, but being truly in a planing mode with the keel weight on these boats isn't really be possible I guess, or very briefly.
Still very impressive ! :)


So, the video proves that VO70's don't plane....??????


Your avatar being a windsurfing board, I guess you know what planing and the limit of it is all about, so yes VO70 are always somehow at the low limit of truly planing, but this is ok, just that these video really render the tension of the keel somehow


When they surf down a wave at 30+ knots they're not planning?


Nope. They are surfing. Using gravity plus wind, not just wind. Planing is usually defined as sailing in non-displacement mode without the benefit of wave generated speed. Initiating planing may come from a wave, but sustaining a plane without using gravity is the trick.






#777 Liquid

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 01:03 AM





you still can tell that the hull is at the limit of truly being in a planing mode, but being truly in a planing mode with the keel weight on these boats isn't really be possible I guess, or very briefly.
Still very impressive ! :)


So, the video proves that VO70's don't plane....??????


Your avatar being a windsurfing board, I guess you know what planing and the limit of it is all about, so yes VO70 are always somehow at the low limit of truly planing, but this is ok, just that these video really render the tension of the keel somehow


When they surf down a wave at 30+ knots they're not planning?


Nope. They are surfing. Using gravity plus wind, not just wind. Planing is usually defined as sailing in non-displacement mode without the benefit of wave generated speed. Initiating planing may come from a wave, but sustaining a plane without using gravity is the trick.


Really? So, VO70's are akin to J105s....

What about when they're 'not planning' in flat water at 20+ knots of boat speed doing more than wind speed? As a 14er, their planning sure looks a lot like a dinghy planning?

Come on, planning is or isn't happening because of a wave??? Let me get my electron microscope out to split that hair! Using your logic, when I surf down a wave on the 14, I'm not planning because gravity is helping?

I do reserve the right to be wrong on this but VO70's PLANE! Mac26's and J105s - not so much.

Your move!

Great leg and killer video of VO70s not planing!

#778 ~HHN92~

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 01:06 AM

I was planning on planing during this leg but the planning did not revolve around the planing............................................

#779 mosailn

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 01:27 AM

I was planning on planing during this leg but the planning did not revolve around the planing............................................

+1

#780 couchsurfer

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 01:44 AM


I was planning on planing during this leg but the planning did not revolve around the planing............................................

+1

..right off the top of the fun-O-meter,,
,,and well into the TERROR-scale :o

#781 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 03:00 AM

you still can tell that the hull is at the limit of truly being in a planing mode, but being truly in a planing mode with the keel weight on these boats isn't really be possible I guess, or very briefly.
Still very impressive ! :)
[/quote]

So, the video proves that VO70's don't plane....??????
[/quote]

Your avatar being a windsurfing board, I guess you know what planing and the limit of it is all about, so yes VO70 are always somehow at the low limit of truly planing, but this is ok, just that these video really render the tension of the keel somehow
[/quote]

When they surf down a wave at 30+ knots they're not planning?
[/quote]

Nope. They are surfing. Using gravity plus wind, not just wind. Planing is usually defined as sailing in non-displacement mode without the benefit of wave generated speed. Initiating planing may come from a wave, but sustaining a plane without using gravity is the trick.
[/quote]

Really? So, VO70's are akin to J105s....

What about when they're 'not planning' in flat water at 20+ knots of boat speed doing more than wind speed? As a 14er, their planning sure looks a lot like a dinghy planning?

Come on, planning is or isn't happening because of a wave??? Let me get my electron microscope out to split that hair! Using your logic, when I surf down a wave on the 14, I'm not planning because gravity is helping?

I do reserve the right to be wrong on this but VO70's PLANE! Mac26's and J105s - not so much.

Your move!

Great leg and killer video of VO70s not planing!
[/quote]

What are you talking about??
Posted Image


I went back and looked at the video again after this talk and GPMA is surfing down waves no doubt. What else do you do when you sail up and over the backside? Definitely planing and wish I could get a ride :D

#782 Pierre S

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 06:53 AM


Well, you are lucky if you are not understanding french. What a dumbasss guy the main commentator!
hopefully, there was some other good contributors.


I am not sure I would call Jimmy a dumbass, Iif you race, you are quite likely to see his stern!


I think the guy doing most of the yelling was Pierre-Yves Lautrou (a journalist and sometime sailor). He sounded like a football commentator.

#783 Pierre S

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 06:55 AM

Anyway, great win by Groupama, who must have taken insane risks to come back after their mainsail problem and create a big enough gap versus Camper, who weren't exactly holding back either. Telef'onica's luck ran out at the wrong moment for them.

#784 bruno

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 07:12 AM

someone who actually knows the numbers oncemtold me that planing is when you have enough powermto push through your bow wave. And surfing is when then pressure distribution is unbalanced enough to create low pressure in front of the the vessel. kinda makes sense, so they actually are very different states. even though they may favor similar shapes and similar looks theya ren't the same.

#785 moody frog

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 09:43 AM



Well, you are lucky if you are not understanding french. What a dumbasss guy the main commentator!
hopefully, there was some other good contributors.


I am not sure I would call Jimmy a dumbass, Iif you race, you are quite likely to see his stern!


I think the guy doing most of the yelling was Pierre-Yves Lautrou (a journalist and sometime sailor). He sounded like a football commentator.


No ! PYL just had a few comments from on the water, most of the voice was from Jimmy, who is no stranger to yelling even on the water ;).
In his defense, he was not commenting the live-stream show, livestream was a make-shift of images + the sound of the shore public gathering, so still over-excited but he was not in the role of a VOR TV commentator, just acting as a stadium speaker.
A different commentator should have been sought for the live-feed.

This is different and triggers some after-thought on sailing having general public acceptance in France. The Lorient stop-over is trimmed to offer the crowds an alternative to soccer and the like. They have spent extra money on concerts and other performances to draw-in the largest crowds.
Is this favorable or not to professional sailing in the end? That is the question.
Groupama, for one, is interested in getting the largest audience: more to be made in car and house insurances than in boat insurances
Lorient town-council is as interested in spending to please Joe-voter as in getting international fame : Catch 22.
Crowds = money, money = sponsors.

#786 Pierre S

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 09:51 AM

Thanks for the correction MF and good points.

#787 tacksea

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 01:16 PM

A couple days ago I posted that I was amazed how good these boats (and crews) were in rough weather.

Quote Ian Walker,
"I'm more amazed that these boats don't break, than when they do break to be honest. We're coming off waves so hard that bunks are breaking down below from the weight of the people landing in them :huh: So you can imagine the loads on everything else."

#788 diggler

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 01:16 PM

take the planing debate to a Farrier trimaran thread and leave this one be

#789 couchsurfer

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 01:35 PM

A couple days ago I posted that I was amazed how good these boats (and crews) were in rough weather.

Quote Ian Walker,
"I'm more amazed that these boats don't break, than when they do break to be honest. We're coming off waves so hard that bunks are breaking down below from the weight of the people landing in them :huh: So you can imagine the loads on everything else."

...funny t'think of sleeping through that :huh:

#790 Vincent

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 02:12 PM


A couple days ago I posted that I was amazed how good these boats (and crews) were in rough weather.

Quote Ian Walker,
"I'm more amazed that these boats don't break, than when they do break to be honest. We're coming off waves so hard that bunks are breaking down below from the weight of the people landing in them :huh: So you can imagine the loads on everything else."

...funny t'think of sleeping through that :huh:


Especially if you're on the lower bunk... :ph34r:

#791 richie

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 03:03 PM



A couple days ago I posted that I was amazed how good these boats (and crews) were in rough weather.

Quote Ian Walker,
"I'm more amazed that these boats don't break, than when they do break to be honest. We're coming off waves so hard that bunks are breaking down below from the weight of the people landing in them :huh: So you can imagine the loads on everything else."

...funny t'think of sleeping through that :huh:


Especially if you're on the lower bunk... :ph34r:

...and make sure your feet are facing forward,not your head ;)...(while attempting to sleep):D

#792 dlangpap

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 03:06 PM

Anyway, great win by Groupama, who must have taken insane risks to come back after their mainsail problem and create a big enough gap versus Camper, who weren't exactly holding back either. Telef'onica's luck ran out at the wrong moment for them.


Yeah, I mean, it would have been nice to see a battle to the end or see GPMA beat TLF without breakage. Without knowing the details, but just seeing how they came back to the lead from 4th, TLF´s strategy seemed too risky to me. After all, they were still 2nd and close so they didn´t absolutely need a win. Were they really that much faster with a similar setup or just pushing more? In any case, having been very lucky up until now and with the whole sail incident, I am not feeling thaat sorry for them. They´ll be itching to do the next Volvo and that is good.



#793 crashdog

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:26 PM

I would say that from the Azores toward the Finish, Tele clearly had the measure of the conditions. Although they carried plenty of sail area, they were conservative (see Iker's comment about their setup on the night of the 2nd break). Camper appeared to be carrying more sail through the heavy air, judging from the various pictures and comments by Camper.

There is no such thing as bad luck in sailing, so calling it bad luck that they had rudder breakage would be wrong. Iker thinks they hit something to break the first rudder. After that, they kept pushing, and why not, they are in it to win. They delammed a rudder during a gybe in 25 foot waves and 40 knots of breeze. Many of us have broken equipment in far less difficult conditions than that. So has Groupama, for that matter. The whole incident derives from the original break, which was not likely the result of carrying excess risk, but of hitting something.

We are all sitting in our comfy chairs critizing these guys for carrying too much risk (Tele) or not carrying enough risk (Puma). I'm not sure we have that right. To gain that right we would need to prove ourselves out there...

#794 couchsurfer

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 01:57 AM

........There is no such thing as bad luck in sailing, so calling it bad luck that they had rudder breakage would be wrong. Iker thinks they hit something to break the first rudder.........

We are all sitting in our comfy chairs critizing these guys for carrying too much risk (Tele) or not carrying enough risk (Puma). I'm not sure we have that right. To gain that right we would need to prove ourselves out there...


...what would you call it when they hit something and break a rudder??...sounds like bad luck to me :unsure:

...methinks SA is all about non-qualified pontificating,,otherwise there'd be ~30 blokes on the site,,'cept they'd be too busy sailing! :lol:
...it's th'couch ,, video's,,and a little saltwater squirtbottle for me :D

#795 hiroller

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 05:25 AM

Whether it is called planing or surfing, there's no doubt that it looks fast.
There are some great shots on the VOR site of the boats arriving in Lorient.
This one really grabs your attention:

Attached Files



#796 couchsurfer

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 05:32 AM

Whether it is called planing or surfing, there's no doubt that it looks fast.
There are some great shots on the VOR site of the boats arriving in Lorient.
This one really grabs your attention:


...that's ~1/2 second before the 'nico stuffs it' video,,no?....



#797 hiroller

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 05:54 AM


Whether it is called planing or surfing, there's no doubt that it looks fast.
There are some great shots on the VOR site of the boats arriving in Lorient.
This one really grabs your attention:


...that's ~1/2 second before the 'nico stuffs it' video,,no?....



Not unless they changed from port tack to starbord tack in that 1/2 second.
Pretty sure the video was taken before the gybe before the worst of the storm.
The photo was taken just before the finish.

#798 hiroller

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 05:56 AM

The other photo of interest is the massive bow of Azzam.
What we need now is for Clean to do a follow up interview with the Farr Office for some feedback on what they learnt designwise in the VOR this time round.

Attached Files



#799 Pierre S

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:59 AM

I would say that from the Azores toward the Finish, Tele clearly had the measure of the conditions. Although they carried plenty of sail area, they were conservative (see Iker's comment about their setup on the night of the 2nd break). Camper appeared to be carrying more sail through the heavy air, judging from the various pictures and comments by Camper.

There is no such thing as bad luck in sailing, so calling it bad luck that they had rudder breakage would be wrong. Iker thinks they hit something to break the first rudder. After that, they kept pushing, and why not, they are in it to win. They delammed a rudder during a gybe in 25 foot waves and 40 knots of breeze. Many of us have broken equipment in far less difficult conditions than that. So has Groupama, for that matter. The whole incident derives from the original break, which was not likely the result of carrying excess risk, but of hitting something.

We are all sitting in our comfy chairs critizing these guys for carrying too much risk (Tele) or not carrying enough risk (Puma). I'm not sure we have that right. To gain that right we would need to prove ourselves out there...



To paraphrase Oscar W., to lose one rudder is bad luck, to lose two is carelessness. The comments from Cammas and Caudrelier suggest that the Telefónica boys were pushing significantly harder than either Groupama or Puma were willing to, at least initially, and continued doing so after the breakage of the first rudder. G4 and Puma had taken their spinnakers down to face the worst of the depression, then G4 saw Telefónica pass them with spinnaker up. As Riou said "we didn't like that very much" so they unfurled their own spinnaker again and took more risks to keep up with Tele. In a way it was a fight to the finish, and Tele just broke first. Coville, Cammas, Caudrelier all said they had had one of the hairiest nights in their long sailing careers (and they must have had a few).

#800 schakel

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:12 AM

Anyway, great win by Groupama, who must have taken insane risks to come back after their mainsail problem and create a big enough gap versus Camper, who weren't exactly holding back either. Telef'onica's luck ran out at the wrong moment for them.


Yep, Groupama wins the Volvo almost for sure.
First time in years my favourite team wins.
Last time was Alinghi in AC 2007.




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