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How much to make this go away?


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#1 MoeAlfa

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:27 PM

Here's my recollection of the list of stuff our buyers want us to fix

1. Repave top of driveway where it's sinking below slab--the rest of the driveway isn't so good, but that apparently doesn't worry them
2. Re-angle gutters & replace a downspout
3. Repair small area of rot in fascia and soffit behind said gutter
4. Seal around a soil vent in roof
5. Replace louver vents in gables (3)
6, Point up ornamental brick cap on retaining wall on area-way.
7. Replace corrugated plastic dryer vent with rigid metal tubing (can't believe we lived with that for 19 years!)
8. Unstick about 9 double-hung windows and fix sash spring on one
9. Replace guts of one toilet
10. Seal pinholes in siding
Assorted other chickenshit stuff.

They also want to see receipts from a licensed contractor for all of this. :lol: We could call bullshit on some of it--the driveway comes to mind--or do some ourselves and get people in to fix the rest, but we just don't have time to crap around on the phone and miss work (or sailing).

If you were they, how much of a schmeer would it take to get you to STFU about this stuff?

#2 ibcrewin

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:31 PM

I'd just do the gutter and the facia issue, then offer them a credit for the rest.

#3 MoeAlfa

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:32 PM

I'd just do the gutter and the facia issue, then offer them a credit for the rest.

Right, but how much of a credit do you think we should offer? We have more cash than time, these days.

#4 Merit 25

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:34 PM

If I were on either side of the deal, I'd get a quote from a licensed contractor and use that as a bargaining chip. Call it $3k (I completely made that up) so lower the price 3k or fix it yourself for under $1k and get the asking price. Either way, housing is a dime a dozen right now, so they have the upper hand.

#5 R Booth

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:35 PM

Give them a $2,138.52 credit, or tell them to go pound sand and buy a new house with a f'ng warranty.....

#6 Cruisin Loser

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:37 PM

Surely your real estate peddler has someone he/she uses who can knock this out quickly without hassle to you. They deal with this all the time. We just bought my daughter a house and the RE Agent had handy people who took care of all the nitpicky stuff at a price acceptable to the seller.

#7 歐開倫

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:42 PM

If I were buying, I'd be happy with credit for the above based on two or three estimates by legitimate and local people. As the buyer, I'd MOST be worried about the extent of the rot in fascia. I'd also be concerned about what's happening with the sinking driveway. You know, are there voids underneath, things like that. The rest of the stuff is picky and cosmetic.

Maybe they want these fixed as a a further inspection that these issues have not gone a lot deeper and are pointing to more severe problems.

#8 ibcrewin

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:43 PM

If I were on either side of the deal, I'd get a quote from a licensed contractor and use that as a bargaining chip. Call it $3k (I completely made that up) so lower the price 3k or fix it yourself for under $1k and get the asking price. Either way, housing is a dime a dozen right now, so they have the upper hand.


Dude that's generous. I'd say give them a credit for the price of fixing the driveway. (1-2k tops? idk) I suspect that's the big issue beyond the gutter thing. At this point, if they like the house I doubt they walk. They already put the money into an inspection and there's nothing really horrible going on so.. I bet they are already picking out the window treatments.

#9 Delta Blues

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:48 PM

How to make it go away?

1. Tell them you won't do any of the list and they can do it when they own it and you won't issue a credit. That will make it go away, and you'll have to start all over again finding a new buyer. Most of the country is a buyer's market. Others will demand this sort of stuff be fixed too (if their home imspectors see it too).

2. Offer to split the costs 50/50. They probably won't do it and will walk away.

#10 MoeAlfa

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:49 PM


If I were on either side of the deal, I'd get a quote from a licensed contractor and use that as a bargaining chip. Call it $3k (I completely made that up) so lower the price 3k or fix it yourself for under $1k and get the asking price. Either way, housing is a dime a dozen right now, so they have the upper hand.


Dude that's generous. I'd say give them a credit for the price of fixing the driveway. (1-2k tops? idk) I suspect that's the big issue beyond the gutter thing. At this point, if they like the house I doubt they walk. They already put the money into an inspection and there's nothing really horrible going on so.. I bet they are already picking out the window treatments.


They also have a contract on their present house and are under time pressure, but Merit, you're right about the buyer's market and there's a real, if small, possibility they'll walk if we low-ball them. We also need to find a new place and be out by 20 July, which is contributing to our unwillingness to dick around too much.

#11 No.6

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:52 PM

I would tell them the price reflects the house as is and as such any of these minor imperfections were already taken into account. If they are going to buy the place, they still will. Worse that can happen is they then ask you for a credit to which you can counter.
Moe, whatever you do, don't just give them a number. They might be looking for a 1k concession and you offer up a 5k concession. That being the case, do what I suggest above and see what the come back with. Let them set the $ amount as the opening salvo and negotiate from there.

#12 Figment

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:01 PM

Disagree, Drake. Yes he wants to know their number but they're not going to volunteer it in this market, he's going to have to start the negotiation.

My suggestion: Figure out how much you're willing to kick back to make the deal happen, and offer half of that.

(I've heard too many friends pissing and moaning lately about deals that fell through because someone wouldn't budge on an issue that really is about 0.5% of the transaction. Just make the damn deal!)

#13 chinabald

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:04 PM

Get a bid, tell the new owners you will put the amount in escrow, then they can use the money to pay for the repairs. In 90 days whats still in escrow reverts back to you.

That way the repairs are done to their liking, not yours. You might think the angle on the gutters is just fine, and they might bitch and want it re-redone... Have them oversee the work.

#14 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:11 PM

Moe,

I'm more of the type of seller that has a "walk away" number in mind when all is said and done. If you fix this stuff, are you still OK with the final number? If you still own the house in 4 months, will you be sorry for dealing hard? Honestly, had they offered 3K less with a comment about the shitty driveway , aged brickwork, etc would you have signed the deal?

Your area is not totally a buyers market these days so you might be able to counter. You might also chase away the only qualified buyer with money in hand. I was auto approved for a loan on a house that the title had problems that killed the deal. A year later, it took 8 weeks and 200 pages of financial info to get a mortgage for 300k less than they had previously approved and my financial position had improved in the intervening year. Rates are low but qualifying a buyer for a good sized mortgage is a lot harder than it used to be.

You agent should have a list of MHIC licensed contractors. You want estimates from 3 of them. If the pain is not worth owning 2 houses until a buyer comes along, then do the deal. You don't want to try to sell a house that "failed inspection".

#15 Nacradriver

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:14 PM

Sounds like the couple that bought my house in Ardmore, PA a few years back - first time homebuyers. The laundry list was ridiculous with some real chick dung stuff. The best one was wanted me to pay for the video inspection of the sewer line from the house to the street as they felt the slop sink in the basement was a little slow on draining and fix the fence in the back yard which was not mine to fix – it was obvious it was the neighbors fence to his pool.

As we told them, the house was a rental for a number of years, did have some ware and tear,and was being sold as is, and we're not making any concessions. That was in the listing, the counter offer, the final offer acceptance etc… But, this was in the second half of 2010 when the market was in the tank and they figured me being in California and they were in Pennsylvania that I would have given in and fixed everything.

My agent told them to go find another house if they were not happy with this one. They went through with the deal anyway.

This is the problem I have with home inspections is, sometimes the sellers feel pressured in fixing things to close the deal, and they buyers feel it is there right to have this stuff fixed... I fell into this trap on both sides of the equation. To me an inspection is just that an inspection to let me the buyer know what I need to get fixed if anything when I take ownership, or if the house is such a condition of disrepair that I should walk from the deal.

#16 jerseyguy

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:19 PM

Assume you are the buyer of your house and the home inspection found all these items. What would you do? Tell the seller to fix them? Then you are dependent on the quality of the contractors he chooses, licensed and bonded or not. Do you ask for $3,000, $5,000, ??? off the price of the house and fix the items yourself? The driveway could be a major issue as could the rotting fascia boards that would cost more to fix than the price recuction.

I used to tell my clients, the first offer you get, in addition to being the best offer, just might be the only offer you get.

#17 R Booth

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:19 PM

Disagree, Drake. Yes he wants to know their number but they're not going to volunteer it in this market, he's going to have to start the negotiation.

My suggestion: Figure out how much you're willing to kick back to make the deal happen, and offer half of that.

(I've heard too many friends pissing and moaning lately about deals that fell through because someone wouldn't budge on an issue that really is about 0.5% of the transaction. Just make the damn deal!)



I spent two hours yesterday with some Georgian hillbillys that wanted to buy my trailer. They came down with $1750 cash with them (the agreed upon price after a lot of digital/cellular negotiations), but then proceeded to point out inane little shit almost non-existant things out here & there about every twenty minutes (it's a fuking tool trailer, not a '65 Duetto) to the tune of about fifty bucks a 'thing'. I finally got fed up with them when we both agreed to $1625.00----for about six minutes, 'til he found 'something else' that he didn't like. That's when I told him that for a (supposedly) commercial building contractor he was pretty f'ng clueless about how shit works, and politely told him that I bet his wife could drop $8k in a clothing store quicker than he could buy a used trailer that was just what he wanted. Packed the dog and left him and his guys standing there. Just wasn't worth my time anymore.

So an hour ago he texts me and says 'my welder wants $125.00 to fix that one spot. I'll still give you $1550.00 for it.'

I just texted him back and told him that 'Yesterday's price for you was $1625.00 Today your price is $1750.00. Call me when you're coming over.'

F'ng Georgians...... :lol:

#18 Glitter In The Eye

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:41 PM

have them make offer as is. let them deal with any needed repairs. I just purchased a house a few yrs ago with a 22 year old heat pump, I knew it was going to be needing replacement. I made offer on house, politely said to the guy, I backed out the cost of a NEW heat pump, same size and manufacturer, showed him my cost with estimate and closed the deal in one afternoon, none of this back and forth over 1-2K...makes no sense on the cost of the loan spread out to haggle once you get down to 3K difference or less.

#19 MoeAlfa

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:42 PM

Disagree, Drake. Yes he wants to know their number but they're not going to volunteer it in this market, he's going to have to start the negotiation.

My suggestion: Figure out how much you're willing to kick back to make the deal happen, and offer half of that.

(I've heard too many friends pissing and moaning lately about deals that fell through because someone wouldn't budge on an issue that really is about 0.5% of the transaction. Just make the damn deal!)


Thanks all for your insights. This is very helpful.

I tend to agree with Figment; the ball is in our court and we'll have to offer something tonight or tomorrow or ask for an extension on the 72 hrs they gave us to respond. We are indeed talking about 0.5% or less (I hope!). The market here isn't totally dead, but the buying public isn't exactly beating down our door.

#20 Sox Da Puppet

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:04 PM

The house I am in now the seller did it difterent, had the home inspection and pest report done before listing the house, had estimates for the work avaiable to the buyers, had the house listed AS IS, and priced it accordingly. You knew what was going on before making an offer.

#21 sledracr

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:17 PM

Here's my recollection of the list of stuff our buyers want us to fix

1. Repave top of driveway where it's sinking below slab--the rest of the driveway isn't so good, but that apparently doesn't worry them
2. Re-angle gutters & replace a downspout
3. Repair small area of rot in fascia and soffit behind said gutter
4. Seal around a soil vent in roof
5. Replace louver vents in gables (3)
6, Point up ornamental brick cap on retaining wall on area-way.
7. Replace corrugated plastic dryer vent with rigid metal tubing (can't believe we lived with that for 19 years!)
8. Unstick about 9 double-hung windows and fix sash spring on one
9. Replace guts of one toilet
10. Seal pinholes in siding
Assorted other chickenshit stuff.


Feh. Buyers want the house to be brand-new, even though they're offering an amount based on its as-is condition.

In general, I'd feel obligated to repair things that might make the place inhabitable (mold, structural issues) or could be serious "defects" (areas of rot, termite damage, etc). I would not feel obligated to make the house perfect for them on my dime.

I would offer to have a contractor fix #3 and #4, maybe #6. I would fix (myself) #7, #8 and maybe #9. Beyond that - if they want the house to be in pristine condition, I'd be willing to negotiate how much more they're willing to offer in order to get it there before close of escrow. Aside from that, I'd consider a counter-offer that says you'll address the things on the list, but raise the purchase price to cover them.

#22 Mojo Risin

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:30 PM

Isn't all of this the same thing that goes on when one wants to buy or sell a boat?

#23 celphtaught

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:31 PM

you honestly need a licensed contractor to do about 3 things on that list, an 8 year old with a roll of duct tape could do some of those repairs.

as said above, i would get a couple quotes from local guys and offer to split the difference.

#24 4knotSB

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:51 PM

Specifying a contractor is par for the course, so that Uncle Ed who just got out of jail doesn't do the work. I'm curious though, what kind of siding develops pin holes that need to be sealed ? I've never heard of that.

#25 Jangles13

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:57 PM

Feh. Buyers want the house to be brand-new, even though they're offering an amount based on its as-is condition.

In general, I'd feel obligated to repair things that might make the place inhabitable (mold, structural issues) or could be serious "defects" (areas of rot, termite damage, etc). I would not feel obligated to make the house perfect for them on my dime.

I would offer to have a contractor fix #3 and #4, maybe #6. I would fix (myself) #7, #8 and maybe #9. Beyond that - if they want the house to be in pristine condition, I'd be willing to negotiate how much more they're willing to offer in order to get it there before close of escrow. Aside from that, I'd consider a counter-offer that says you'll address the things on the list, but raise the purchase price to cover them.


I agree with this. #3, #4, and #8 sounds somewhat reasonable. In particularly 3 and 8 because of unknowns (how deep is the rot, and can the windows even be unstuck or will they need rebuilding). The other items are definitely nit-picky (I would completely ignore #1 myself, unless there is some water intrusion issue they are trying to avoid).

What's the reasoning behind #5? Are birds getting in or something similar? #9 is perhaps easiest to replace the toilet ($150) and frankly I would tell them they want to pick it out themselves. #10 requires a $6 tube of silicone or putty... are they really squabbling about that?

Buyers like this give me the rub. Actually... inspectors do. They need to be knocked off their pedestal regularly.

#26 Kaptainkriz

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:19 PM

Yes, I've done nothing for past buyers. Let them bargain, take the deal, you have no other responsibility. Sounds like 3k work. Don't have them pound sand. Negotiate a $ amount and sell fast! May be a long time until another offer comes.

Give them a $2,138.52 credit, or tell them to go pound sand and buy a new house with a f'ng warranty.....



#27 DA-WOODY

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:23 PM



If I were on either side of the deal, I'd get a quote from a licensed contractor and use that as a bargaining chip. Call it $3k (I completely made that up) so lower the price 3k or fix it yourself for under $1k and get the asking price. Either way, housing is a dime a dozen right now, so they have the upper hand.


Dude that's generous. I'd say give them a credit for the price of fixing the driveway. (1-2k tops? idk) I suspect that's the big issue beyond the gutter thing. At this point, if they like the house I doubt they walk. They already put the money into an inspection and there's nothing really horrible going on so.. I bet they are already picking out the window treatments.


They also have a contract on their present house and are under time pressure, but Merit, you're right about the buyer's market and there's a real, if small, possibility they'll walk if we low-ball them. or fall-out anyway after we waist the $$$ to kiss their Arss We also need to find a new place and be out by 20 July, which is contributing to our unwillingness to dick around too much.


fixed

If you don't want to Man-Up and drop their offer "how the beginning of the market uptick shall start"

get 2-3 bids, have buyer sign contract and pay for repairs with your contribution limited to the accepted bid off closing costs

if it get BIGGER buyer pays or walks after paying the contractor

Hay I'll buy your house for selling price on Tuesday - if You Buy me a New Harley today Posted Image

Why didn't you fully remodel before listing - Exactly

Dude ain't offering you what they offered if they make you reach into your pocket to pay out

CANCEL the DEAL - You Will Help Yourself as well as everyone selling

They Can (for Many Reasons) back out anyway and the next guy shall ask for MORE !!!!!!!!!

#28 R Booth

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:27 PM

Specifying a contractor is par for the course, so that Uncle Ed who just got out of jail doesn't do the work. I'm curious though, what kind of siding develops pin holes that need to be sealed ? I've never heard of that.


Pecky cedar.....

#29 Kaptainkriz

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:29 PM

Aluminum does too


Specifying a contractor is par for the course, so that Uncle Ed who just got out of jail doesn't do the work. I'm curious though, what kind of siding develops pin holes that need to be sealed ? I've never heard of that.


Pecky cedar.....



#30 No.6

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:41 PM


Disagree, Drake. Yes he wants to know their number but they're not going to volunteer it in this market, he's going to have to start the negotiation.

My suggestion: Figure out how much you're willing to kick back to make the deal happen, and offer half of that.

(I've heard too many friends pissing and moaning lately about deals that fell through because someone wouldn't budge on an issue that really is about 0.5% of the transaction. Just make the damn deal!)


Thanks all for your insights. This is very helpful.

I tend to agree with Figment; the ball is in our court and we'll have to offer something tonight or tomorrow or ask for an extension on the 72 hrs they gave us to respond. We are indeed talking about 0.5% or less (I hope!). The market here isn't totally dead, but the buying public isn't exactly beating down our door.

But your home isn't in Nevada or Florida, it is in Metro DC area. Not as weak a market as other areas. Just sayin'.

#31 MoeAlfa

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:20 PM

Thanks for all the sage advice. We just came back with an offer to do the stuff I can do myself (I'm Board-certified and licensed in the commonwealth of Massachusetts) and a generous cash allowance, based on the consensus above, for the rest. Fingers crossed, y'all.

#32 No.6

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:24 PM

Good Luck Moe.
You going sailing now?

#33 bmiller

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:27 PM


I'd just do the gutter and the facia issue, then offer them a credit for the rest.

Right, but how much of a credit do you think we should offer? We have more cash than time, these days.



I didn't take the time to read all the responses but surely someone mentioned you could offer them to pound sand and go buy a new house.

#34 R Booth

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:28 PM

Good Luck Moe.
You going sailing now?



I thought he was crewing for BJ?....

#35 MoeAlfa

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:53 PM

Good Luck Moe.
You going sailing now?

Four days of work first, but I'll try to get a race or three in on Sat and a day sail with the wife on Sun.

I thought he was crewing for BJ?....

I'm not sure I cook well enough and drink little enough to crew on a real cruising boat like BJ's. His wife would probably get tired of me leering at her after about 43 minutes.

#36 DA-WOODY

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 10:26 PM


Good Luck Moe.
You going sailing now?

Four days of work first, but I'll try to get a race or three in on Sat and a day sail with the wife on Sun.

I thought he was crewing for BJ?....

I'm not sure I cook well enough and drink little enough to crew on a real cruising boat like BJ's. His wife would probably get tired of me leering at her after about 43 minutes.


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#37 MoeAlfa

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:08 PM

Update: We got closing paperwork from their title agency, but no word on our response and their agent now seems morbidly obsessed with the crumbling brick surround of a storm drain in the easement by the road (!) (here's a hint, lady: not we). Meanwhile, if all goes according to plan, we are bedouin as of 20 July.

#38 DaveK

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:40 PM

why would their agent give a shit.... they want to get paid so f'ing around delays that.

#39 MoeAlfa

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:49 PM

why would their agent give a shit.... they want to get paid so f'ing around delays that.

One of life's little mysteries. Our agent is ready to throttle her.

#40 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:52 PM

Update: We got closing paperwork from their title agency, but no word on our response and their agent now seems morbidly obsessed with the crumbling brick surround of a storm drain in the easement by the road (!) (here's a hint, lady: not we). Meanwhile, if all goes according to plan, we are bedouin as of 20 July.


Hmm. If their agent is nervous, gotta wonder why. Are they grousing about "stuff" that makes it a bit less desirable? What does your agent say? Around here, my agent knows what agents are good about getting their clients to closing and what ones are likely to come at you for concessions once the HUD-1 is prepared.

#41 R Booth

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:57 PM

This just proves my point that not everyone in America should own a home.....

#42 Glitter In The Eye

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:05 AM

when I sold my last home a young couple came in and said they wanted some differnet carpet???LOVED THE HOUSE AND LOCATION but CARPET WAS A NO GO????? I was young once and had no clue when I was teenager, but anywho. I asked them what ever they wanted when we move out I would arrange the install. They couldnt beleive they could get NEW carpet installed in the rooms of their choice!!!! Unbelivable as it sounds some people have no clue how the world works when it come to replacing or fixing things. I just grilled a steak, chased a snake away from the house and helped my neighbor load a new outboard onto is dinghy...did it all ourselves.

#43 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:10 AM


Update: We got closing paperwork from their title agency, but no word on our response and their agent now seems morbidly obsessed with the crumbling brick surround of a storm drain in the easement by the road (!) (here's a hint, lady: not we). Meanwhile, if all goes according to plan, we are bedouin as of 20 July.


Hmm. If their agent is nervous, gotta wonder why. Are they grousing about "stuff" that makes it a bit less desirable? What does your agent say? Around here, my agent knows what agents are good about getting their clients to closing and what ones are likely to come at you for concessions one the HUD-1 is prepared.

Brick around a storm drain that doesn't even belong to us? How are they going to use that to get concessions? I told our agent to tell them I emailed and called WSSC and asked them to fix it.:lol:

#44 opa1

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:17 AM

If they have submitted a Contract For Sale And Purchase with those provisions, I would not sign it but would counter with the following:
A. I would have a contractor give you an estimate for the repairs for items 1 and 3. Offer to have these items paid from the proceeds of the closing. These will have to be completed prior to closing. You can have these items included in the Contract For Sale And Purchase.
B. Have the Realtor get you an estimate from a handyman for items 4, 6, 7 and 9. Offer a reduction in the Purchase Price and let them take care of these items after closing. Don't have them mentioned in the Contract For Sale And Purchase.
C. Give them a $500.00 credit for the chickenshit., This again will be a reduction in the Purchase Price. Don't make it a part of the Contract For Sale And Purchase.

Odd are they are getting a mortgage and they are going to have the house appraised and items 1 and 3 will probably be a part of the appraisal anyway, so get them out of the way. Reduce the Purchase Price for the other items and move them over to their responsibility. Don't muck up the Contract For Sale And Purchase. If they are getting a mortgage, then the Underwriter will be required to make sure that all repair items mentioned in the Contract For Sale And Purchase have been completed.
Good luck.



#45 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:24 AM

This just proves my point that not everyone in America should own a home.....

If you mean us, I'm beginning to agree. We could rent Neuschwanstein with what the cash would yield in fixed income.

#46 R Booth

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:28 AM

If they have submitted a Contract For Sale And Purchase with those provisions, I would not sign it but would counter with the following:
A. I would have a contractor give you an estimate for the repairs for items 1 and 3. Offer to have these items paid from the proceeds of the closing. These will have to be completed prior to closing. You can have these items included in the Contract For Sale And Purchase.
B. Have the Realtor get you an estimate from a handyman for items 4, 6, 7 and 9. Offer a reduction in the Purchase Price and let them take care of these items after closing. Don't have them mentioned in the Contract For Sale And Purchase.
C. Give them a $500.00 credit for the chickenshit., This again will be a reduction in the Purchase Price. Don't make it a part of the Contract For Sale And Purchase.

Odd are they are getting a mortgage and they are going to have the house appraised and items 1 and 3 will probably be a part of the appraisal anyway, so get them out of the way. Reduce the Purchase Price for the other items and move them over to their responsibility. Don't muck up the Contract For Sale And Purchase. If they are getting a mortgage, then the Underwriter will be required to make sure that all repair items mentioned in the Contract For Sale And Purchase have been completed.
Good luck.



You think underwriter actually knows of this candy-assed fix it list? Or is this list just a dream list that the unicorn breeding fukwits buying the house hope to have done? For free?....

#47 Dorado

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:28 AM

We could rent Neuschwanstein for what the cash would yield in fixed income.



Good idea!

and then throw a party :)

#48 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:30 AM

You think underwriter actually knows of this candy-assed fix it list? Or is this list just a dream list that the unicorn breeding fukwits buying the house hope to have done? For free?....

NFW and the house has been appraised like three times in the last 15 years for refis with no issues and for more than we're getting.

#49 Mark K

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:40 AM

FWIW, I thought you did what I would do, everything I could knock off myself in a couple days and less than a grand worth of stuff at the hardware store I would just do, and offer concessions for everything non-totally silly left.

That's not worth much, BTW. Sinking drive way? Rotting eaves? That could be anything from epic, gut-wrenching horror to cosmetic.

#50 R Booth

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:42 AM


This just proves my point that not everyone in America should own a home.....

If you mean us, I'm beginning to agree. We could rent Neuschwanstein with what the cash would yield in fixed income.



No, Dr. Dyp Shytt, I was refering to your pussified prospective buyers.....

#51 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:56 AM



This just proves my point that not everyone in America should own a home.....

If you mean us, I'm beginning to agree. We could rent Neuschwanstein with what the cash would yield in fixed income.



No, Dr. Dyp Shytt, I was refering to your pussified prospective buyers.....


I knew what you meant, Cholmondeley.

If we don't have a solid deal by 1000 hrs tomorrow, I start looking for a way to get rid of them minus their 15,000 check.

#52 R Booth

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:27 AM




This just proves my point that not everyone in America should own a home.....

If you mean us, I'm beginning to agree. We could rent Neuschwanstein with what the cash would yield in fixed income.



No, Dr. Dyp Shytt, I was refering to your pussified prospective buyers.....


I knew what you meant, Cholmondeley.

If we don't have a solid deal by 1000 hrs tomorrow, I start looking for a way to get rid of them minus their 15,000 check.



I came three seconds away from doing the same, when the attorney bitch at the very last moment wanted a new heater.

In retrospect, I should have told her and her mee-ooow-moow husband to both blow me, and kept their $15k too.....

#53 Point Break

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 12:56 PM

Human nature people want to get something. Offer to fix the driveway and that's all. They get something, and it's the big ticket. Strain that advice through your timing needs. At the end of the what's your need to be done worth?

#54 Nacradriver

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:24 PM





This just proves my point that not everyone in America should own a home.....

If you mean us, I'm beginning to agree. We could rent Neuschwanstein with what the cash would yield in fixed income.



No, Dr. Dyp Shytt, I was refering to your pussified prospective buyers.....


I knew what you meant, Cholmondeley.

If we don't have a solid deal by 1000 hrs tomorrow, I start looking for a way to get rid of them minus their 15,000 check.



I came three seconds away from doing the same, when the attorney bitch at the very last moment wanted a new heater.

In retrospect, I should have told her and her mee-ooow-moow husband to both blow me, and kept their $15k too.....



I was going to say it appears like the don't have the funding, and are stalling for time, but you got the paperwork from the title company. You may want to ask as this may be your only way out.

Not as easy as it sounds in CA as it has to be a mutual agreement with both the buyer and the seller and the buyer can refuse the cancellation. Until the it is canceled you as the seller can not open another one until they do. Don't ask me how I know!

#55 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:53 PM




This just proves my point that not everyone in America should own a home.....

If you mean us, I'm beginning to agree. We could rent Neuschwanstein with what the cash would yield in fixed income.



No, Dr. Dyp Shytt, I was refering to your pussified prospective buyers.....


I knew what you meant, Cholmondeley.

If we don't have a solid deal by 1000 hrs tomorrow, I start looking for a way to get rid of them minus their 15,000 check.


Not easy to keep the check. I assume they have an inspection contingency. If the two parties cannot come to terms on the resolution of an open contingency, they can elect to walk and will get their check back. They do eat the appraisal, loan app fees, etc and whatever title work is already done.

It really is in your interest to get to closing if the net $ to you meets your "need". Owning two homes because you chased an idiot but otherwise qualified buyer away over a couple of boat bucks is not a fun place to be.

#56 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:04 PM





This just proves my point that not everyone in America should own a home.....

If you mean us, I'm beginning to agree. We could rent Neuschwanstein with what the cash would yield in fixed income.



No, Dr. Dyp Shytt, I was refering to your pussified prospective buyers.....


I knew what you meant, Cholmondeley.

If we don't have a solid deal by 1000 hrs tomorrow, I start looking for a way to get rid of them minus their 15,000 check.


Not easy to keep the check. I assume they have an inspection contingency. If the two parties cannot come to terms on the resolution of an open contingency, they can elect to walk and will get their check back. They do eat the appraisal, loan app fees, etc and whatever title work is already done.

It really is in your interest to get to closing if the net $ to you meets your "need". Owning two homes because you chased an idiot but otherwise qualified buyer away over a couple of boat bucks is not a fun place to be.

As you know, I'm really just a loveable teddy bear of a guy and just blowing off steam. Thank Heaven we don't own two homes (if you don't count the boat)! We're looking at seven figures for the buy :o and there's no way we can do that without this one being sold.

#57 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:44 PM

Un-fucking-believable: They want the windows, the gutters, the driveway AND 4,500! Agent says walk. Wife isn't sure.

#58 ibcrewin

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:49 PM

Un-fucking-believable: They want the windows, the gutters, the driveway AND 4,500! Agent says walk. Wife isn't sure.

Fuck that shit. Let them walk. Call the bluff.

#59 Glitter In The Eye

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:51 PM

windows and driveway can be expensive. tell them to give a price they want as is. what happens when you do the work and they back out, dont qualify or just plain tire kicking.

I treat all sales like I do on Ebay now, sale price is as is, no free shipping for you, no extra work...take it or leave it.

#60 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 03:01 PM

Bluff called. Think what sandbaggers like this might try to do to us at closing!

#61 Throatwarbler-Mangrove

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 03:36 PM

When we sold my condo in Massachusetts, and my parents' house in Connecticut, we put an "as is" clause in the P&S. Don't know if Maryland allows that (ask your broker), but if it does, lesson learned.

#62 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 03:42 PM

When we sold my condo in Massachusetts, and my parents' house in Connecticut, we put an "as is" clause in the P&S. Don't know if Maryland allows that (ask your broker), but if it does, lesson learned.

I wouldn't sign a contract on a 30 yo house without an inspection clause. Taking it out would be a signal that there was something significant wrong with the house, which there isn't. These people are just abusing it in a particularly unpleasant way--you should have seen the patronizing email from their broker.

#63 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 03:47 PM

Bluff called. Think what sandbaggers like this might try to do to us at closing!


Yep. Right move.

#64 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 03:47 PM

Bluff called. Think what sandbaggers like this might try to do to us at closing!


It sounds like that's exactly what you're dealing with - sandbaggers. They want the house, but, want to feel like they won the negotiation by having you pay for things that they want to change that aren't significant deficiencies.
Fingers crossed that they want the place more than they want to win the negotiation.

#65 President Eisenhowler

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 03:59 PM

If I were a buyer, there is no way in hell I would have the seller fix anything. The incentive structure is all wrong: at that point the seller wants the job done as cheaply as possible, period. As a buyer, I would negotiate for an adjustment in price.

But people's psychology is funny --- this is where a good broker comes in. I once made an offer on a house that had been on the market for a year, owner living in his new house and carrying the old place empty. The offer was at market price, solidly backed up by comps, but a lot lower than the asking price. Even though the offer was the best one to date, the owner ranted and raved about me trying to "steal" his house, and absolutely refused to negotiate further with me (I think he made a counter offer at $100 below is original ask, or some equivalent raised middle finger. ) I knew the market inside and out; I knew my price was right. Another 8 months of carrying it empty and he sold it to someone at about the same price I had offered initially.

#66 President Eisenhowler

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:00 PM

These people are just abusing it in a particularly unpleasant way--you should have seen the patronizing email from their broker.


Very important to brush that aside and stay focused on the numbers.

#67 JFM

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:04 PM

Some buyers are coming at you with a 0 to 3% down payment and bank financing. They have no money for repairs and, even if you sell the property "as is, where is" their bank will still want the repairs made before they loan on the deal. Get bids from local contractors with good reputations, ask the seller to get bids and then jointly select someone to do the work. Spell out the arrangement in an addendum to the purchase and sale agreement and limit the amount you will pay for the improvements according to the bid you both have accepted. Of course, problems like rot can be more extensive than expected and can throw all of this out the window. On the other hand, if it is a cash buyer you are just negotiating one on one.

#68 Glitter In The Eye

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:04 PM

If I were a buyer, there is no way in hell I would have the seller fix anything. The incentive structure is all wrong: at that point the seller wants the job done as cheaply as possible, period. As a buyer, I would negotiate for an adjustment in price.

But people's psychology is funny --- this is where a good broker comes in. I once made an offer on a house that had been on the market for a year, owner living in his new house and carrying the old place empty. The offer was at market price, solidly backed up by comps, but a lot lower than the asking price. Even though the offer was the best one to date, the owner ranted and raved about me trying to "steal" his house, and absolutely refused to negotiate further with me (I think he made a counter offer at $100 below is original ask, or some equivalent raised middle finger. ) I knew the market inside and out; I knew my price was right. Another 8 months of carrying it empty and he sold it to someone at about the same price I had offered initially.


that sounds like my melges 24 seller....how dare you ask for market price!!! he contacted me about 4 months later accepting my offer....my new one was lower. :)

#69 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:06 PM


Bluff called. Think what sandbaggers like this might try to do to us at closing!


It sounds like that's exactly what you're dealing with - sandbaggers. They want the house, but, want to feel like they won the negotiation by having you pay for things that they want to change that aren't significant deficiencies.
Fingers crossed that they want the place more than they want to win the negotiation.

There are those who want to buy things from you, and there are those who want to take things from you. Some folks are not happy unless they feel like they have taken something from someone.

#70 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:06 PM


These people are just abusing it in a particularly unpleasant way--you should have seen the patronizing email from their broker.


Very important to brush that aside and stay focused on the numbers.

Don't nobody patronize me!

#71 Figment

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:07 PM


These people are just abusing it in a particularly unpleasant way--you should have seen the patronizing email from their broker.


Very important to brush that aside and stay focused on the numbers.


Hell yes.

#72 Glitter In The Eye

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:07 PM


When we sold my condo in Massachusetts, and my parents' house in Connecticut, we put an "as is" clause in the P&S. Don't know if Maryland allows that (ask your broker), but if it does, lesson learned.

I wouldn't sign a contract on a 30 yo house without an inspection clause. Taking it out would be a signal that there was something significant wrong with the house, which there isn't. These people are just abusing it in a particularly unpleasant way--you should have seen the patronizing email from their broker.



inspection and as is are two different things I thought. Inspect it, find flaws, list them and still able to settle on price as is with flaws....or am I wrong?

#73 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:15 PM



When we sold my condo in Massachusetts, and my parents' house in Connecticut, we put an "as is" clause in the P&S. Don't know if Maryland allows that (ask your broker), but if it does, lesson learned.

I wouldn't sign a contract on a 30 yo house without an inspection clause. Taking it out would be a signal that there was something significant wrong with the house, which there isn't. These people are just abusing it in a particularly unpleasant way--you should have seen the patronizing email from their broker.



inspection and as is are two different things I thought. Inspect it, find flaws, list them and still able to settle on price as is with flaws....or am I wrong?


No idea. I don't do this often, thank goodness.

#74 IrieMon

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:16 PM

Some buyers are coming at you with a 0 to 3% down payment and bank financing


Can you still get financing with that small a downpayment ? Thought that train sailed long ago..... maybe there's still hope :blink:

#75 Throatwarbler-Mangrove

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:54 PM



When we sold my condo in Massachusetts, and my parents' house in Connecticut, we put an "as is" clause in the P&S. Don't know if Maryland allows that (ask your broker), but if it does, lesson learned.

I wouldn't sign a contract on a 30 yo house without an inspection clause. Taking it out would be a signal that there was something significant wrong with the house, which there isn't. These people are just abusing it in a particularly unpleasant way--you should have seen the patronizing email from their broker.



inspection and as is are two different things I thought. Inspect it, find flaws, list them and still able to settle on price as is with flaws....or am I wrong?

"As is" means that the price is what is agreed before the inspection. "Inspection clause" means the buyer has the right to turn down the house after the inspection and get their deposit back. Not mutually exclusive. If the inspection turns up a huge, expensive gotcha, then both sides might want to negotiate, or not. But "as is" does discourage (not eliminate) chickenshit from the buyer.

#76 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:16 PM




When we sold my condo in Massachusetts, and my parents' house in Connecticut, we put an "as is" clause in the P&S. Don't know if Maryland allows that (ask your broker), but if it does, lesson learned.

I wouldn't sign a contract on a 30 yo house without an inspection clause. Taking it out would be a signal that there was something significant wrong with the house, which there isn't. These people are just abusing it in a particularly unpleasant way--you should have seen the patronizing email from their broker.



inspection and as is are two different things I thought. Inspect it, find flaws, list them and still able to settle on price as is with flaws....or am I wrong?

"As is" means that the price is what is agreed before the inspection. "Inspection clause" means the buyer has the right to turn down the house after the inspection and get their deposit back. Not mutually exclusive. If the inspection turns up a huge, expensive gotcha, then both sides might want to negotiate, or not. But "as is" does discourage (not eliminate) chickenshit from the buyer.

That's how our contract was structured, i.e., the agreed price still stands. Under MD law, the inspection clause covers only electrical, plumbing and HVAC defects. However, motivated sellers that we were, we decided to give them an allowance for other stuff.

#77 Friggin' in the Riggin'

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:25 PM

Not that any of this is really latent dammage, but these items must be disclosed to any future buyer if this deal falls through. I'd recommend trying to get the deal to closing if you can. Think of it in terms of frequency of mortgage payments vs. frequency of qualified buyers offers. Back before the real estate game became a very expensive hobby I dealt with this type of thing on both sides of the transaction. People always want to think they are the worlds best negotiators and can get whatever they want, especially buyers in a buyers market. Throw them a little bone and then stick to the contract. Good Luck Moe.

#78 Mark K

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:55 PM



These people are just abusing it in a particularly unpleasant way--you should have seen the patronizing email from their broker.


Very important to brush that aside and stay focused on the numbers.

Don't nobody patronize me!


There will be a time and a place. The time is when it is closed and you move out. The place is in the kitchen sink....

#79 DA-WOODY

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    COUGARS COUGARS & More COUGARS

Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:40 PM

Update: We got closing paperwork from their title agency, but no word on our response and their agent now seems morbidly obsessed with the crumbling brick surround of a storm drain in the easement by the road (!) (here's a hint, lady: not we). Meanwhile, if all goes according to plan, we are bedouin as of 20 July.


Spit out the Hook !!!!!!!!!!!

You are being Played


Friend years ago was trying to sell before losing the house

DAY - ONE = Offer of Full Price & Much Happiness

Many others interested but seller/loser was committed

Shife drags on and on till 7 days before Bank would own it

Then the Scammer/buyer tosses out a Laundry list of demands "To Be Done Before Closing"

seller/loser counter

Days go by w No response

then w 3 Days to go buyer says I'm walking unless you take - #########

No time to try anything else so the seller/loser wound up walking with about $300 instead of Nothing

Instead of actually selling it to one of the many interested (still Low price but seller was to make $18,000)

Get a REAL BUYER "AS-IS" and be done with it Posted Image

#80 DA-WOODY

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    COUGARS COUGARS & More COUGARS

Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:49 PM


When we sold my condo in Massachusetts, and my parents' house in Connecticut, we put an "as is" clause in the P&S. Don't know if Maryland allows that (ask your broker), but if it does, lesson learned.

I wouldn't sign a contract on a 30 yo house without an inspection clause. Taking it out would be a signal that there was something significant wrong with the house, which there isn't. These people are just abusing it in a particularly unpleasant way--you should have seen the patronizing email from their broker.


You can sell "As-Is" and allow an inspection

in fact you should "Make" them do an inspection and sign-off on the "As-Is" after they checked it out.

Only then are you off the hook for not disclosing something (for the most part)

#81 Glitter In The Eye

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:35 PM

I'm doing happy hour tongiht, getting my miller lite as is. this topic has brought back so much anger, need to find a kitten to kick.

#82 MoeAlfa

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:44 PM

I'm doing happy hour tongiht, getting my miller lite as is. this topic has brought back so much anger, need to find a kitten to kick.


Sorry.

I'm going to finish up what I'm doing here, ride my bicycle home in the beautiful sunshine, drink shitty wine, and cook something nice for my long-suffering, hard-working, wife.

#83 MoeAlfa

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 11:23 PM

Buyers just capitulated. We're outta here in July.

#84 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 11:42 PM

Buyers just capitulated. We're outta here in July.


CONGRATS~!!!!! I'm so glad to hear ya won!!!

#85 R Booth

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 12:26 AM

Nice job at playing poker there, Moe. Maybe a long weekend in Vegas should be on your mini bucket list?.....

#86 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 12:30 AM

Buyers just capitulated. We're outta here in July.


Watch them carefully between now and then. You agent needs to track every piece of paper needed to close. They have shown a willingness today games.

#87 Point Break

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 04:27 AM

Buyers just capitulated. We're outta here in July.

Where ya going? Whatcha doing?

#88 MoeAlfa

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 12:51 PM


Buyers just capitulated. We're outta here in July.

Where ya going? Whatcha doing?


Definites are moving from mid-suburb to outer city now and retiring from uniformed service early next year. I can keep my present job, but I've got a couple of other irons in the fire, here and elsewhere.

Good wishes and advice much appreciated. Vegas not on bucket list.

#89 Soley

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 01:11 PM

S what was the final deal?

#90 Point Break

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 03:10 PM



Buyers just capitulated. We're outta here in July.

Where ya going? Whatcha doing?


Definites are moving from mid-suburb to outer city now and retiring from uniformed service early next year. I can keep my present job, but I've got a couple of other irons in the fire, here and elsewhere.

Good wishes and advice much appreciated. Vegas not on bucket list.

Congrats! I'm also punching out next spring. Mrs PB this fall. Currently in the process of reevaluating and refining our combined and individual "bucket lists". Time to get started on it. Hmmmmmm sounds like another thread!

#91 MoeAlfa

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 01:06 AM

S what was the final deal?


To recap, they asked for everything to be fixed; we offered a few minor fixes and 2,500; they came back asking for one additional fix and 4,500; we said no; they agreed to our offer.

There are also a few things their inspector didn't find. ;)

#92 R Booth

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 01:16 AM


S what was the final deal?


To recap, they asked for everything to be fixed; we offered a few minor fixes and 2,500; they came back asking for one additional fix and 4,500; we said no; they agreed to our offer.

There are also a few things their inspector didn't find. ;)



I thought Gator lived in Florida?...

#93 sledracr

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 02:27 PM

There are also a few things their inspector didn't find. ;)


Dunno about your state, but in many states there are "seller's disclosure" requirements. In WA, for example, seller is required to disclose - in writing - "all known defects" with the property. Anything you knew about - but didn't disclose - is grounds for a fraud complaint when the buyer figures it out.

Just sayin'.

#94 MoeAlfa

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 05:55 PM

There are also a few things their inspector didn't find. ;)


Dunno about your state, but in many states there are "seller's disclosure" requirements. In WA, for example, seller is required to disclose - in writing - "all known defects" with the property. Anything you knew about - but didn't disclose - is grounds for a fraud complaint when the buyer figures it out.

Just sayin'.

Nothing rising to that level, minor nuisances of the kind they kvetched inappropriately about. Believe me, we're being careful with these people.

#95 Ajax

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:01 AM


There are also a few things their inspector didn't find. ;)


Dunno about your state, but in many states there are "seller's disclosure" requirements. In WA, for example, seller is required to disclose - in writing - "all known defects" with the property. Anything you knew about - but didn't disclose - is grounds for a fraud complaint when the buyer figures it out.

Just sayin'.

Nothing rising to that level, minor nuisances of the kind they kvetched inappropriately about. Believe me, we're being careful with these people.


And add the fact that Moe Alpha is one of the most upstanding, scrupulously honorable people I've ever met. He would never violate the law, or perpetrate a fraud on his potential buyers, no matter how badly they've behaved during this transaction.

#96 Last Jack

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 04:57 AM

This thread was great. So much mis-information and those most mis-informed are the least likely to realize.

#97 ropetrick

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:00 PM

This thread was great. So much mis-information and those most mis-informed are the least likely to realize.


Business as usual for SA.

#98 R Booth

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:17 PM

This thread was great. So much mis-information and those most mis-informed are the least likely to realize.



Care to point out to the class what all the 'mis-information' is?

You know, so we don't go thru the rest of our lives mis-informed?....

#99 MoeAlfa

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:25 PM

And add the fact that Moe Alpha is one of the most upstanding, scrupulously honorable people I've ever met. He would never violate the law, or perpetrate a fraud on his potential buyers, no matter how badly they've behaved during this transaction.

Thanks, Mom.

#100 Cruisin Loser

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:59 PM

There are also a few things their inspector didn't find. ;)

It may seem pretty obvious to us, but not everyone will recognize a shallow, unmarked grave.




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