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Nacra F20c vs Caanan this weekend


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#101 vmg

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:27 PM

100 degrees is sailing HIGH. Most beachcats gybe through 90.


...Today we did some yachting, doing 12's+- upwind in 6 knots TWS and 16's downhill, while gybing through an honest 100 degrees.

Top speed for the day, just North of 22, We think it was a walloping 9-10 knots in the harbor when we did that just off the dock for Fredo's first sail of the year...


16 downhill in 6 gybing through 100 degrees... Yeah, that'll do.

Deep and fast is a great way to go through life.



#102 blunted

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:13 PM

100 degrees is sailing HIGH. Most beachcats gybe through 90.



...Today we did some yachting, doing 12's+- upwind in 6 knots TWS and 16's downhill, while gybing through an honest 100 degrees.

Top speed for the day, just North of 22, We think it was a walloping 9-10 knots in the harbor when we did that just off the dock for Fredo's first sail of the year...


16 downhill in 6 gybing through 100 degrees... Yeah, that'll do.

Deep and fast is a great way to go through life.


That's our 6-7 knot number, it comes down as the breeze comes up

What's your downhill speed in 6 knots TWS?

B

#103 vmg

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 04:36 PM

No way am I picking up your performance!

Just pointing that you were not especially low

#104 blunted

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:23 PM

No way am I picking up your performance!

Just pointing that you were not especially low


We figure if we go fast enough special relativity will kick in and we'll bend space and time, then 100 degrees might become 90

#105 pcraig

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:52 PM

vmg,

Although no longer part of the Invictus team, I still work for the same company as the bulk of the team, and sail at the same local sailing club as a few of them, so I know a little of whats going on.

After Mr. Phipps the younger demolished the wing last year, the team are working on a new wing but as is usual with these boats, unless you have plenty of funding or friends in the right places, its pretty difficult to get much progress. That said I believe the new wing does away with the need for an internal carbon tube, which was the basis for the Cogito, Alpha and Canaan wings, and was generally the most expensive bit, especially when you are buying it in from New Zealand!

Not sure what the current date is for the next LAC in Mylor (Carrick Roads). It was supposed to be 2013 but with the commitments to AC from some of the teams I wonder if it will move.

#106 Patio

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:06 PM

Not sure what the current date is for the next LAC...but with the commitments to AC from some of the teams...

I stand to be corrected, but didn't think either SHC's team or Fredo's team have had anyone involved in a while.
Are some of the Invictus team involved in an AC program ?

Beyond those three teams, who is really out there with a serious program ?
Assume that the French guys who sailed PL VI in 2010 would be potentially serious and maybe the Italians who have build hull moulds ?

Patio.

#107 samc99us

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:02 PM

I'd say these guys are quite serious: http://www.challengeitalia.it/

#108 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:23 PM

ayee, that is a serious website & nice pics of others peoples catamarans

#109 Tony-F18

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 10:52 PM

I'd say these guys are quite serious: http://www.challengeitalia.it/

The Swiss/French (VPLP) are working on a C design as well:
http://www.sail-worl...=y&ntid=0&rid=8
http://www.hydros.ch...erica-hydro-cup

#110 Matt D

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:56 AM

Pretty incredible that a production cat like the F20C can even come close to the marvel of efficiency that is the C-class.

#111 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:01 PM

don't forget

those 'times' might be close(-ish) in regular racing, but up at speeds of super-performance classes they are about a whole leg of the course
now that ain't so much close as gooooorrrrn

#112 SC65

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 01:32 AM

Pretty incredible that a production cat like the F20C can even come close to the marvel of efficiency that is the C-class.


What also would have been interesting to see is how a production C-Cat would have performed against Canaan?
After all, Ben Hall's wing was performance wise not that superior over the soft rigged A-Cats of that time.

This production C-Cat is basically an enlarged A-Cat.

http://www.flyer-acat.de/pages/english/ckat.php

I assume the wing rigged Canaan would easily smoke it, similar to USA17 vs Alinghi, but if we forget class rules and that production C-Cat would (no longer a C-Cat) use the asymmetric spi and jib, they equip those boats with on the German lakes, than one would have a similar battle of conventional soft rig like seen on the F20C, but on a similar sized platform and 40kg lighter than the F20C (someone mistakenly called the fastest production sailboat, ignoring this C, moths and the even faster kiteboards)

Its also 'only' around 40.000,- Euro, so nearly a Volkswagen compared to the Canaan 'Porsche'... ;-)

#113 Matt D

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 03:09 PM

don't forget

those 'times' might be close(-ish) in regular racing, but up at speeds of super-performance classes they are about a whole leg of the course
now that ain't so much close as gooooorrrrn


Races two and three had finish time deltas of only approximately 4 and 8 percent . While this equates to total domination in match racing, fleet racing regularly sees this amount of variance in finish times across the fleet. So, yes I'm impressed that it was even that close. I don't think anyone here really expects a F20C to ever beat a C class within the C-classes design winds (sub 20 knots), but it is interesting to see a reasonably priced production boat capable of at times attaining 90-95% of the speed of the Gucci of sailing; the C-class catamaran.

I share others curiosity as to how the two would compare in more breeze. Would the speed delta to both windward and leeward diminish, and if so, by how much?




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