55 replies to this topic

[PBO]

Lance Armstrong Responds to USADA Allegation
AUSTIN, TX -- June 13, 2012 -- I have been notified that USADA, an organization largely funded by taxpayer dollars but governed only by self-written rules, intends to again dredge up discredited allegations dating back more than 16 years to prevent me from competing as a triathlete and try and strip me of the seven Tour de France victories I earned. These are the very same charges and the same witnesses that the Justice Department chose not to pursue after a two-year investigation. These charges are baseless, motivated by spite and advanced through testimony bought and paid for by promises of anonymity and immunity. Although USADA alleges a wide-ranging conspiracy extended over more than 16 years, I am the only athlete it has chosen to charge. USADA’s malice, its methods, its star-chamber practices, and its decision to punish first and adjudicate later all are at odds with our ideals of fairness and fair play.

I have never doped, and, unlike many of my accusers, I have competed as an endurance athlete for 25 years with no spike in performance, passed more than 500 drug tests and never failed one. That USADA ignores this fundamental distinction and charges me instead of the admitted dopers says far more about USADA, its lack of fairness and this vendetta than it does about my guilt or innocence.

Linky

[RedTuna]

However testy it must make him feel, the ball is in USADA's hands.

[KennyB]

I think that this is the 1st time I heard LA say that he has never doped...... He has said in the past that he has never FAILED a test, which from 1 POV, could mean that he has never been caught. He may have had the resources to stay ahead of the testing curve.

I also wonder if during his cancer treatment that he didn't take EPO as prescibed by his doctors....

I'm just sayin'.........

[RedTuna]

Would the EPO really have made a vas deferens in his performance?

[Steve Adolph]

Har har!!! Got me laughing!

[Anthonyvop]

The man was behind the cigarette tax referendum in Cali.

[Dorado]

They must be nuts.

[doghouse]

In slightly more important news, Schleck is out of the Tour this year

[VMac]

This is such a joke. When is enough going to be enough. Better yet, how much money is Tygart going to spend before the USADA loses this one?

I was really looking forward to watching Kona this year. With the way he was tearing up the 70.3 distance, lance would have made this edition of the ironman wc one for the ages.

[Bull Gator]

Look lance doped like a fiend. So did everyone else. He never got caught. Let it go. In fact nothing wrong with letting riders dope. What they are being asked to do is inhuman. Saw lance get his first tri victory in fla a month ago. Was a thrill tosee him on the bike.

Leave lance alone

[Friggin' in the Riggin']

Regardless of wheather he doped or not, why is the doping agency about TEN YEARS LATE to the party? Are they testing frozen samples, or reading about his alleged doping from an anchient copy of Sports Illustrated? For the record I am very much against doping, but how can the USADA hope to have any credibility at this stage of the game? They need to do a better job of catching current users. I'd really like to know how they arrived at this conclusion so many years after the fact.

[Sailing My Cubicle]

Here's an interesting article in Outside Magazine from a few years back about the rise of WADA and USADA. Seems like a powerful organization with a chip on its shoulder that presumes guilt over innocence (kind of like a church).
linky

[Jon Russell]

However testy it must make him feel, the ball is in USADA's hands.

Well played RedTuna, but you've lost your marbles if you think that Lance is going to get tea-bagged over these false accusations..

[Sol Rosenberg]

However testy it must make him feel, the ball is in USADA's hands.

Well played RedTuna, but you've lost your marbles if you think that Lance is going to get tea-bagged over these false accusations..

Well, if the investigation doesn't turn something up, someone is going to get sacked.

[grabbler]

However testy it must make him feel, the ball is in USADA's hands.

Well played RedTuna, but you've lost your marbles if you think that Lance is going to get tea-bagged over these false accusations..

Well, if the investigation doesn't turn something up, someone is going to get sacked.

These guys are dicks....they just keep pulling things out of their hat.....no way he's gonna get band....

[tommays]

The BEST you can say on the deal is the TEAM that supported him are admitted dopers

[Jon Russell]

However testy it must make him feel, the ball is in USADA's hands.

Well played RedTuna, but you've lost your marbles if you think that Lance is going to get tea-bagged over these false accusations..

Well, if the investigation doesn't turn something up, someone is going to get sacked.

These guys are dicks....they just keep pulling things out of their hat.....no way he's gonna get band....

Lance is half the man he once was, but he still has the kajones' to repel these baseless and empty claims..

[On the Hard]

Look lance doped like a fiend. So did everyone else. He never got caught. Let it go. In fact nothing wrong with letting riders dope. What they are being asked to do is inhuman. Saw lance get his first tri victory in fla a month ago. Was a thrill tosee him on the bike.

Leave lance alone

It's easy to believe that he doped, until you factor in passing over 500 tests without a glitch. If he did, then he must have used something undetectible or gotten rediculously lucky. Personally, I think he's the Nolan Ryan of cycling, a freak of nature with gifts no other competitor can match. I agree with your final comment. Unless you are retesting old samples with new technology and find something STFU!

[mad]

This sacks of a way of going after him 10 years late.

[JBSF]

Look lance doped like a fiend. So did everyone else. He never got caught. Let it go. In fact nothing wrong with letting riders dope. What they are being asked to do is inhuman. Saw lance get his first tri victory in fla a month ago. Was a thrill tosee him on the bike.

Leave lance alone

Given that you masturbate to Lance and timmy tebow pulling a train on you - you might want to take your own advice.

[A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake]

Look lance doped like a fiend. So did everyone else. He never got caught. Let it go. In fact nothing wrong with letting riders dope. What they are being asked to do is inhuman. Saw lance get his first tri victory in fla a month ago. Was a thrill tosee him on the bike.

Leave lance alone

It's easy to believe that he doped, until you factor in passing over 500 tests without a glitch. If he did, then he must have used something undetectible or gotten rediculously lucky. Personally, I think he's the Nolan Ryan of cycling, a freak of nature with gifts no other competitor can match. I agree with your final comment. Unless you are retesting old samples with new technology and find something STFU!

I can agree w/BG for once - this sounds like a witch hunt, and someone trying to justify an unsupportable position by yelling more loudly than everyone else.

[JBSF]

In slightly more important news, Schleck is out of the Tour this year

Andy? That blows!

[JBSF]

However testy it must make him feel, the ball is in USADA's hands.

Well played RedTuna, but you've lost your marbles if you think that Lance is going to get tea-bagged over these false accusations..

Well, if the investigation doesn't turn something up, someone is going to get sacked.

I wish they would stop needling Lance over this

[doghouse]

In slightly more important news, Schleck is out of the Tour this year

Andy? That blows!

Yep.

[ADK]

In slightly more important news, Schleck is out of the Tour this year

Andy? That blows!

Yep.

So, am I the only one here thinking that Andy's injury was pretty lucky timing to save him from a lot of embarrassment at the tour? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's quite bummed to miss the tour - it's pretty much the only race he tries to be competitive in all year. But, I don't think he stood a chance in the world of being competitive this year. He was struggling to stay with the groupetto on the climbs in the Dauphine before he crashed and basically hasn't shown any form all season. You just don't make up that kind of fitness in 3 weeks - at least not without some "help" (see long list of dopers...). In addition, from everything I've seen, he's focused all of his training on improving his climbing. Apparently he didn't notice that this year's Tour has ~100km of TT. He's already one of the best climbers in the world (when he's in shape). What he needs to spend his off season working on if he wants to be competitive in the Tour is TT and basic bike handling.

Personally, I don't think his injury is having a significant effect on his chances of winning the Tour this year. Hopefully he can find some form for the Vuelta. That could be interesting...

[VMac]

Great op piece by Dan Empfield of Slowtwitch:

http://www.slowtwitc...USADA_2848.html

[On the Hard]

I like this article, It say what needs to be said.

[MoMP]

I've read a couple of articles regarding this and from my understanding, they have past blood samples that they are looking at. If I remember correctly, the pharms that develop the doping drugs design it to pass a test. The test is refined to pick up on the next generation and it basically becomes a game of cat and mouse. Maybe the testing caught up with Lance. Just saying.

Disclaimer. If people at the top of their field find an enhancement and are willing to use said enhancement, I think it should be legal. It's their accomplishment and their bodies. They can decide. For others, they will know in advance what they're up against. Play ball in the B field if they're not interested.

[webbwash]

a great travesty of our government first its a baseball player accused of lying to Congress - one of the most hypocritical organisations of all time -- and now chasing after Armstrong --- WTF - don't we have better places to spend our money ==== like getting the young athletes of today GRADUATING High School and College/University!!!!

[JBSF]

Did anyone read the leaked letter to Armstrong from USADA? http://www.slowtwitc...SADA_letter.pdf

Its a fucking witch hunt! They are pissed off that Lance was the only one who refused to speak with the investigation. Furthermore, ALL the evidence with be testimony that he was "observed" doping by these other riders who did consent to interviews. Think there wasn't not only sour grapes but also probably an offer of immunity from bans for the active riders to throw an inactive rider under the bus? Of course they're going to rat Lance out if they get the spotlight taken off of them.

Someone at WADA and USADA got their noses bent out of shape because Lance blew them off for questioning. So they're on a witch hunt to show him who's boss.

What pissed me off the most is there is not "innocent until proven guilty". Lance has been banned from competeing in Triathlons simply because of allegations. How about let him compete on the assumption he's innocent and then strip him later if he's found guilty. Total BS!

[polarbear]

Great op piece by Dan Empfield of Slowtwitch:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Opinion/Armstrong_and_USADA_2848.html

That dude nailed it

[PBO]

If modern sports like road racing are permeated by performance drugs that synthetically alter the results, then it really takes the gloss off a win for me. If the riders wore jerseys that identified the pharmaceutical corps & what products they are giving to the riders & why...then it would add another layer of interest (& commercialisation) to the competition. It would also allow a level of understanding about the so called athlete at the core of facade...their weaknesses etc. A good dose of honesty would do wonders for the current public skepticism surrounding the sport

The Tour has become a farce. July is no longer sacred. Armstrong is a liar. Teams management are complicit....I wonder how many kids today dream of being a modern lab rat professional cyclist as opposed to the natural pro cyclist of yesteryear. I bet there's not one who imagines the modern reality

The apparent belief that unless you're on the juice you are a B competitor is wholly flawed & such shallow, simple thinking that it beggars belief. If for example it were happening with such devastating impact in the workplace of those that pedal this opinion, I wonder how they would feel about the choice they faced...would they accept & take the performance enhancers they would need to be competitive or would they push back & demand a fair & equal 'playing field' so they continue earning without added costs or risks?

[JBSF]

I would take the fact that Lance is THE most highly tested athlete in cycling, if not in all of sports and he's never failed a test over the testimony of unknown eyewitnesses who probably have an incentive to tell USADA whatever they want to hear - either to protect their own asses or to grind an axe with Lance.

[JMD]

If modern sports like road racing are permeated by performance drugs that synthetically alter the results, then it really takes the gloss off a win for me. If the riders wore jerseys that identified the pharmaceutical corps & what products they are giving to the riders & why...then it would add another layer of interest (& commercialisation) to the competition. It would also allow a level of understanding about the so called athlete at the core of facade...their weaknesses etc. A good dose of honesty would do wonders for the current public skepticism surrounding the sport

The Tour has become a farce. July is no longer sacred. Armstrong is a liar. Teams management are complicit....I wonder how many kids today dream of being a modern lab rat professional cyclist as opposed to the natural pro cyclist of yesteryear. I bet there's not one who imagines the modern reality

The apparent belief that unless you're on the juice you are a B competitor is wholly flawed & such shallow, simple thinking that it beggars belief. If for example it were happening with such devastating impact in the workplace of those that pedal this opinion, I wonder how they would feel about the choice they faced...would they accept & take the performance enhancers they would need to be competitive or would they push back & demand a fair & equal 'playing field' so they continue earning without added costs or risks?

That romanticizing of the "natural pro cyclist of yesteryear" doesn't really match reality: http://en.wikipedia...._Tour_de_France

Amphetamine use was widespread in the 40's and 50's. Before that it was strychnine, ether, and nitroglycerin.

The only difference between today and the last hundred years is that they're actually testing and catching people with the intent to clean up what has historically always been a farce.

[PBO]

That romanticizing of the "natural pro cyclist of yesteryear" doesn't really match reality: http://en.wikipedia...._Tour_de_France

Amphetamine use was widespread in the 40's and 50's. Before that it was strychnine, ether, and nitroglycerin.

The only difference between today and the last hundred years is that they're actually testing and catching people with the intent to clean up what has historically always been a farce.

If you put "natural pro cyclist of yesteryear" back into the context of a kids dream, it still works & is no less valid. I highly doubt that kids dream of becoming an athlete built on juice & clandestine relationships with pharmaceutical companies

And just because you don't get caught....well that likely means you have a great clandestine relationship with a top pharmaceutical company. Again, doubt kids dream of such a relationship

[twistedflow]

The article in Slowtwitch is good, as are a number of other articles. Whether Lance did or did not is getting so clouded by by both sides of the argument, and like any story (or protest), there are three sides (mine, yours and the truth).
If Floyd Landis (teammate of L.A. in 2010) and Tyler Hamilton (teammate of L.A. in 1999, 2000, 2001) admitted to performance enhancing drug use during those years, should the team results not be stripped? Different competition, but Marion Jones' teammates had to hand back their 4x100 and 4x400 medals after she was caught in the BALCO scandal. Certainly if Lance's teammates were indulging in a chemically improved performance, he benefited from their performance, possibly allowing him to win, should the wins be stripped for that reason?

[aus_stevo]

to all the guys saying that LA never failed a test should read this.
http://nyvelocity.co...ichael-ashenden

[JBSF]

The reality is, right or wrong - that doping was THE NORM in professional cycling for all those years. If you were doping, you were playing on a level playing field. I'm not saying its right - but it was the reality. To then go back and cherry pick a few guys ignores that probably 90-99% of the rest doped to compete. If you are going to strip Lance of any wins, who do you give it to? The domestiques? The guy who dropped out in stage 3? The guy who drives the team support car? Because they might be the only guys who didn't dope.

If the sport wants to solve the doping problem, and they should.... Draw the line NOW and aggressively test EVERYONE. Use today as the new YEAR ZERO and ignore what happened previously because you will essentially have to wipe out the entire results of the entire sport of cycling at the pro level. But chasing allegations and rumors and personal vendettas from the 1990s is NOT the way to fix the sport. Better to focus your energy on stopping doping NOW instead of 15-20 years ago.

[Sol Rosenberg]

I heard that he handed over another handful of vials and said "Here, testes."

[Jon Russell]

I heard that he handed over another handful of vials and said "Here, testes."

aww nuts..you had to go and make another testes joke..here we go again..

[JBSF]

Lance Armstrong: "I'd give my left nut to make this doping shit go away..... Oh wait.....

[Gouvernail]

What a total waste of everybody's time.



Why does anybody give a fuck about any of this??

[JBSF]

What a total waste of everybody's time.



Why does anybody give a fuck about any of this??

Why do you give a fuck that we give a fuck?

[peejay]

It's easy to believe that he doped, until you factor in passing over 500 tests without a glitch.

Most of the riders that have been caught passed lots of tests, until the one that caught them.

[JMD]

That romanticizing of the "natural pro cyclist of yesteryear" doesn't really match reality: http://en.wikipedia...._Tour_de_France

Amphetamine use was widespread in the 40's and 50's. Before that it was strychnine, ether, and nitroglycerin.

The only difference between today and the last hundred years is that they're actually testing and catching people with the intent to clean up what has historically always been a farce.

If you put "natural pro cyclist of yesteryear" back into the context of a kids dream, it still works & is no less valid. I highly doubt that kids dream of becoming an athlete built on juice & clandestine relationships with pharmaceutical companies

And just because you don't get caught....well that likely means you have a great clandestine relationship with a top pharmaceutical company. Again, doubt kids dream of such a relationship

I'd argue that now that the kids know the reality of the situation they might choose different dreams, which is for the best.

[Paul Romain Tober]

to all the guys saying that LA never failed a test should read this.
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

Here's a quote from that interview:



"Lance Armstrong's '99 samples test positive

AS: So out of the 87 usable samples that they gathered, they got 13 positives and 6 of them belonged to Lance Armstrong.

MA: Depending on which criteria you applied. Yes, six of them failed the definitive criteria. There were another two samples in fact where the EPO was visually there in the gel. You could see it was there, but for one reason or another, the percentage isoforms weren't calculated, or had to be re-analyzed, or it was a little bit too faint to get a definitive result. Yes, there were six samples with EPO in it, and there were another two samples where it was pretty plain to a trained observer that there was synthetic EPO in those as well."



So he's a doper and a liar besides being an arrogant asshole.

Romain

[Tugboat]

Development...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-hincapie-leipheimer-vande-velde-zabriskie-vaughters-give-evidence-against-armstrong

Four former teammates of Lance Armstrong will receive six month bans after they confessed to doping and testified against the seven-time Tour de France winner, according to De Telegraaf.

George Hincapie, Levi Leipheimer, Christian Vande Velde and David Zabriskie are said to have given evidence in the USADA investigation which has charged Armstrong with doping. All four riders are currently taking part in the Tour de France, but in recent weeks, USA Cycling revealed they opted not to be considered for the Olympic Games.

Today's report, which is front-page news, also names Garmin-Sharp boss Jonathan Vaughters. It is not clear whether Vaughters too will face suspension.

"Miraculously, USADA has arranged for the suspensions to begin at the start at the end of the season so that they are able to race both the Tour de France and the Vuelta a Espana," the article states.

This makes a further mockery of the Salem witch hunt against Armstrong.

Four current pros admit to doping and get slapped with the wettest bus ticket ever to go after a guy who's well and truly retired from the sport.

[JBSF]

So he's a doper and a liar besides being an arrogant asshole.

Romain

What, did he blow you off once when you asked for an autograph?

[TPG]

If the sport wants to solve the doping problem, and they should.... Draw the line NOW and aggressively test EVERYONE. Use today as the new YEAR ZERO and ignore what happened previously because you will essentially have to wipe out the entire results of the entire sport of cycling at the pro level. But chasing allegations and rumors and personal vendettas from the 1990s is NOT the way to fix the sport. Better to focus your energy on stopping doping NOW instead of 15-20 years ago.

Yeah that worked great in 99! Oh wait....

[DAK]

What a total waste of everybody's time.



Why does anybody give a fuck about any of this??

no offence intended Gouv, but a guy with 15,700 posts really shouldn't advise others on wasting time.

[Occams Razor]

no different than US Baseball's doping problem. What do you do - go back and erase the record books for an entire generation? Remember - just like in Baseball - the authorities, sponsors, etc were complicit. Yeah, they had doping rules, and all the big guys passed them - but all the adverts (at least in the US) had Lance in Yellow riding to victory, over and over again.

When they made money off the guy, they sure loved him (Can say the same about McGuire, Sosa, Bonds, etc.)

move on.

[Gouvernail]

Expanding on teh previous post.


Sport and sportsmanship imply something other than cheating until caught.


A true sportsman would refuse to participate or benefit from cheating.
No one EVER refused to run from second to touch third and home after barry Bonds hit one over teh fence. No team owner refunded ticket fees to fans who paid to watch Bonds opr Palmero or any of teh other so called dopers.

The fact is every single member of every single team where every single player who used illegal substances hit home runs or pitched a little longer KNEW his team was cheating.



I have a problem with cheaters, but I have a bigger problem with people who are too chickenshit to risk their bodies by taking PEDs but willing to cheat along and win as a result of the risks taken by others. The real cheaters are ALL OF THEM.

The worst cheaters are the ones who didn't even share in the risk.

In the 1990s, using drugs to win baseball games was NOT cheating. The rules of baseball are simple and have remained simple. The team that scores the most runs wins. In baseball, you are safe unless somebody ELSE says you are out. Nobody says, "I was tagged before I got to the base and the umpire missed the call.' It is not played by sportsmen".



perhaps Cycling is not contested by sportsmen

[JBSF]

I just saw a ticker on CNN International: "Armstrong suit dismissed".

[JBSF]

Ok, I thought the doping suit against Armstrong had been dismissed. But after further search - it appears that Lance's lawsuit against the USADA was dimissed.

The other thing that struck me is that they are approaching an arbitration deadline for him to accept or reject a settlement:

The lawsuit comes five days before the USADA’s deadline asking Armstrong to either accept a proposed penalty of a lifetime competition ban and the loss of his seven Tour titles or officially contest its charges. The agency says it has 10 former teammates and associates who would testify against the famed cancer survivor, along with blood samples consistent with doping. Armstrong has steadfastly denied ever using performance-enhancing drugs.

If the proposed penalty is a lifetime ban and stripping of his 7 TDF titles.... what's the alternative penalty? How does it get any worse than that? Is there actual criminal penalties with jail time that could result?

[doghouse]

If the proposed penalty is a lifetime ban and stripping of his 7 TDF titles.... what's the alternative penalty? How does it get any worse than that? Is there actual criminal penalties with jail time that could result?

They can't enforce criminal penalties, those charges were dropped by Novitzsky.

[JBSF]

If the proposed penalty is a lifetime ban and stripping of his 7 TDF titles.... what's the alternative penalty? How does it get any worse than that? Is there actual criminal penalties with jail time that could result?

They can't enforce criminal penalties, those charges were dropped by Novitzsky.

That's what I thought. So how is the offer of arbitration anywhere in the universe of a compromise?