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Minipulating others on the water


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#1 Road Runner

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:53 AM

In another thread we were talking about rules. Well, I am a person that yes, we need rules but I hate the protest room. I would rather beat you fairly, give you a pass when I should and just injoy sailing. However, I also like the mental game of sailing. Suttle minipulations of the other boats. For example: You are in front of me and I am right behind you coming into the leeward mark. I have shown no interest on trying to get inside you. Right before you should be giving instruction to your crew on a takedown I head up trying to get inside. You defend. I have no interest in going inside but head down and go right into a takedown. By minipulating you to head up and delay your takedown (remember you are 1 boat length closer to the mark) you more then likely will not have the best takedown. I don't get you by getting room going into the mark, I beat you by getting inside you on the back side of the mark. This is one of many things people do to minipulate other boats on the water. What have you done? Do you even know you are getting minipulated by the better sailors?

#2 MSA

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:08 AM

Cracking off a few degrees when on Starboard to make an easy cross look close, when the Port tacker tacks or starts to bear away you return to close hauled. Same deal when on starboard lay and a Coffin corner wanker is going to try push it...

#3 Road Runner

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:21 AM

Similar: when someone is crossing make it look like you are going to make the mark when you know you are not or the opposite make them think you are not making it when you are. Depends on what helps you most at the time.

#4 tuf-luf

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:54 AM

Minipulate?

#5 chorus1

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:00 AM

Similar: when someone is crossing make it look like you are going to make the mark when you know you are not or the opposite make them think you are not making it when you are. Depends on what helps you most at the time.


When upwind to windmark, i helm down before the boat on another tack behind crosses me back (Without interfere according to ISAF :). So he thinks that i'll not get the upwind mark and wait to tack, goin overlayed :) Some more meters for the final.

#6 dogwatch

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:54 AM

Minipulate?


It's sort of like wanking but it makes your dick smaller.

#7 Nettles

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:12 AM

Minipulate?


Suttle?

#8 freewheel510

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:37 AM

You're just ahead of two boats on an upwind leg, and want both on the same side of the course. You cross both on one tack, then tack as if to cover the windward one, but too late so they're in clear air.

They'll figure when they tack, you'll tack and be right on their wind. They feel like they've gotten away with clear air because of your crappy tack, so they'll keep going, and both boats will be on the same tack as you, so you get to stay between both boats and the weather mark.

Twiname does a better job of explaining this in "Start to Win". It works great.

Anytime you can get the boat ahead to sail to defend, rather than sailing their own race, it's just a matter of time before you beat them. I love to encourage a tacking duel from behind, or gibe to the opposite side of the downwind leg from the leader, to get them to think about defending me. It doesn't always work, of course, but getting them to make mistakes and rush their sailing can pay off.

#9 coyotepup

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:46 AM

Fun trick in the "can only do this once" category: Triangular P2P course with a short-course mark for the small boats and a long-course mark for the big boats both on the same bearing from the start, but different distances. First leg happens to be nearly dead downwind (one board slightly favored, but only slightly) and we fly asymmetrical kites to get a ratings credit, so the first leg is a series of jibes. The boat behind us had been monkey-see monkey-do the whole leg trying to cover us since we're each other's top competition in both the race and the series. We jibe, they follow. So our skipper says, OK, be ready for two quick jibes. Approaching the short-course mark (for our class, the wrong one) we get the genny ready on deck as if to hoist it, jibe over to the mark on a decent lay line, then jibe back and watch our trailing competition hoist a jib and round the wrong mark and sail in that direction for a few seconds before they realize they've been head-faked.

#10 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:46 AM

A long time ago in a 450 mile race:

The skipper of a boat 6-8 hours BEHIND us calls home and tells his wife he is about to finish. He knew we would be monitoring and apparently hoped we would be demoralized and quit or slack off. No such luck and then the wife freaks out when we finish and her husband is no where to be found.

#11 dacapo

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:17 AM

I ran around on deck screaming that we're out of beer....the rest of the fleet thought we were done

#12 The Main Man

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:23 AM

Dummy tack of gybe can always be fun - it can work in yachts too...

#13 Snaggletooth

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:27 AM

On ranny dayes I staye dry sailing beatwene dropps, reelley pissis the ortheres offe. Sike, Ime am in theire heade!!! :)

#14 Trickypig

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:29 AM

I was told a story about Ticonderoga's win over Stormvogel in the Transpac.

It became apparent to the Ticondroga's afterguard that since Stormvogel was gaining on Ticonderoga from behind, they were probably not attending to their fixes (in the days of only sextants) but just match racing. When the finish was just below the horizon Ticonderoga conceived to sail a higher reaching course above the island and quietly get their spinnaker gear all ready for a hoist. When the angle was good they bore off and set their kite(s) and left Stormvogel wondering where they were going and when they realised their mistake, still weren't ready for a hoist.

I hope I told that story correctly because it's Ticonderoga folklore and I don't have the book!

#15 dacapo

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:31 AM

On ranny dayes I staye dry sailing beatwene dropps, reelley pissis the ortheres offe. Sike, Ime am in theire heade!!! :)


heh heh heh :P

gotts try that one day.

Ninja Snaggy technique

#16 Punani Jackson

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:03 PM

On ranny dayes I staye dry sailing beatwene dropps, reelley pissis the ortheres offe. Sike, Ime am in theire heade!!! :)


I'm going to start my workday with a big grin after reading that Snaggy.

#17 Sailing My Cubicle

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:48 PM

Manipulating is tactics. So long as you don't break the rules, including fair play, feel free to play head games. I just hope that while you're playing head games with other boats you're still focused on sailing fast.

However, nothing pisses me off more than when two other boats in the middle of a grudge match interferes with my race. I.e. Boat to leeward of me is going to take me up just to fuck with the boat to windward of me because the skipper of the leeward boat is still mad that my windward skipper wouldn't share his tonka truck in kindergarten.

#18 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:01 PM

Someone told me about this trick way back. On a nighttime long Downwind leg, get a red and green solo cup. Drop them alternately over your stern light. Boats behind will freak out thinking a big shift or something coming up. Another one on the same lines is start dropping the milky white 'go cups' over the stern light every ten minutes or so. As the light dims the boats behind think you're pulling away and start changing things. Sounds a little 'illegal' as far as COLREGS.

#19 House Salad

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:08 PM


Minipulate?


Suttle?



injoy!

#20 MSA

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:09 PM

Snaggy??

#21 huckster_one

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:17 PM

In another thread we were talking about rules. Well, I am a person that yes, we need rules but I hate the protest room. I would rather beat you fairly, give you a pass when I should and just injoy sailing. However, I also like the mental game of sailing. Suttle minipulations of the other boats. For example: You are in front of me and I am right behind you coming into the leeward mark. I have shown no interest on trying to get inside you. Right before you should be giving instruction to your crew on a takedown I head up trying to get inside. You defend. I have no interest in going inside but head down and go right into a takedown. By minipulating you to head up and delay your takedown (remember you are 1 boat length closer to the mark) you more then likely will not have the best takedown. I don't get you by getting room going into the mark, I beat you by getting inside you on the back side of the mark. This is one of many things people do to minipulate other boats on the water. What have you done? Do you even know you are getting minipulated by the better sailors?


Better hope they are not tacking at the mark or you have a little splainin to do!

#22 rgscpat

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 02:50 PM

Minipulate?


"Minipulate" is a near-antonym for populate comprising the prefix "mini" and a contraction of the root word "populate" that means, "to make a population smaller".
It is NOT what happens when so many Americans go to fast food restaurants.

#23 More Cowbell2

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 03:30 PM

Owners daughter on the bow before the start in a hot pink bikini. Distracted other crews enough that we won the start.

On a different race, coming into the finish, I was flying the chute, took my eyes off it when I saw a small rowboat with a nekked chick on it. She saw we were looking, and stood up and did a little dance. Lost the chute for a while. Owner told us to focus on the GD race, not the talent.

#24 jerseyguy

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:12 PM

Minipulate?

Don't leave out the cousins: injoy and suttle

#25 PurpleOnion

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:20 PM

Minipulate?


That's how powerful he is. He has manipulating you into being illiterate.

#26 barefoot children

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:22 PM


Similar: when someone is crossing make it look like you are going to make the mark when you know you are not or the opposite make them think you are not making it when you are. Depends on what helps you most at the time.


When upwind to windmark, i helm down before the boat on another tack behind crosses me back (Without interfere according to ISAF :). So he thinks that i'll not get the upwind mark and wait to tack, goin overlayed :) Some more meters for the final.

Gosh, not the dreaded bow down we're not making it feint

#27 Road Runner

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:41 AM

Ok, I spelled Minipulate wrong. Sorry. How many good sailors do you know that are good spellers? Here is another one done in the Mac Race in a J/120. We were behind another J/120. We tried working high, we tried working low and each time we converged we were about in the same spot. So we went up a little to give the other boat a good view of what we were doing and we turned into wing and wing. The breeze was dying so we were really not any better VMG then the other boat but the perseption was that we were. One important fact. Don't try this without practicing it first. Becuase we made it look easy they tried it and tried it and in the end we were 1/2 mile ahead of them at the turning mark. This was all mental. We were not faster going wing and wing. I would say that we were slower but when the boats seperate it becomes deceaving.

If you ever try wing and wing on a racer cruiser you need to know one thing. If the Asymetrical starts to colapse just change choice and pull the boom over. Don't try and fill it by just using the sheet. You can change course pull the boom over get the A-sail drawing better and then change couce and pull the boom back over again. This is much faster then trying to use the sheet. Also, VMG is about the same in a dying breeze becuase the waves speeds are better. In a building breeze you are normally slower becuase of the wave speed.

#28 stranded

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 06:08 AM

days of 10 and 5 min gun:

10 min gun :

make sure all other boats see crew with a can of beer in the hand ( first for the day )

5 min gun :

no more beer

clear decks


make them think we were a bunch of alcohol impaired drunks that could not be taken seriously


some did not like the results sheet .............


Oh, and so hard into the slops between the finish and the marina that they thought we were like that for the whole day ...................

#29 freewheel510

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:34 PM



Minipulate?


Suttle?



injoy!


Hoo gives a f$ck. This is a sayling foruum, not a speling foruum.

Another trick I remember Max Ebb telling me about, in a drifter in dark or near-dark conditions when you are near enough to another boat to be heard: suddenly start turning winches and rattling blocks. The other boat thinks you're responding to new wind and the crew will jump to stations, disturbing their boat. You can make noise without shaking wind out of your sails if you stay still while doing it, and you can ghost past.

Practice a couple of port tack starts during the sequence, then start on starboard. Or, better, vice versa.

On a reaching leg, feint to windward. When they come up to cover, go low. If they take you high enough, late enough, you may be able to get an overlap to leeward which, if on stbd before a port rounding has obvious advantages.

#30 Gouvernail

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 05:47 AM

We tune our rig

Attached Files



#31 rgscpat

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 06:20 AM

injoy: He was out of joy when he couldn't get in Joy.

suttle: To provide beer or other necessary provisions for the crew; from the noun sutler, a contractor, camp follower, or merchant who provided provisions and supplies to the army.

#32 Somebody Else

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 06:45 AM

A long time ago in a 450 mile race:

The skipper of a boat 6-8 hours BEHIND us calls home and tells his wife he is about to finish. He knew we would be monitoring and apparently hoped we would be demoralized and quit or slack off. No such luck and then the wife freaks out when we finish and her husband is no where to be found.

So did any one of your crew nail the Oscar Whiskey? Or maybe a 3-way with the Oscar Whiskey and the Oscar Delta! Posted Image

That's the prize, right?

#33 Oxygen Mask

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:05 PM

Toss a pin and split ring into their cockpit when they are close by... :D

#34 VwaP

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:37 PM

Posted Image

#35 John Ball

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:03 PM

Sailing close hauled with another boat close to weather. We were approaching an island with a sand bar just off shore.

I wanted to tack but it was much too soon to call for room. So I hailed to the other boat "Do you have a depth sounder?" He answered "No! - why?" I called back - we are heading towards a shoal and your keel is deeper than mine - so when you hit bottom, I will still be able to tack clear.

He tacked immediately! and so I was able to tack too!

John

#36 couchsurfer

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:09 PM

days of 10 and 5 min gun:

10 min gun :

make sure all other boats see crew with a can of beer in the hand ( first for the day )

5 min gun :

no more beer

clear decks


make them think we were a bunch of alcohol impaired drunks that could not be taken seriously


some did not like the results sheet .............


Oh, and so hard into the slops between the finish and the marina that they thought we were like that for the whole day ...................


...looks like these idiots took your advice <_< ........



#37 Gorn FRANTIC!!

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:14 PM

Fucking dreadful video and "reporting" isn't it.

#38 Flatbag

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 02:58 AM

Minipulate?


Yep; very, very small manipulations :P

#39 Flatbag

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 03:03 AM

A long time ago in a 450 mile race:

The skipper of a boat 6-8 hours BEHIND us calls home and tells his wife he is about to finish. He knew we would be monitoring and apparently hoped we would be demoralized and quit or slack off. No such luck and then the wife freaks out when we finish and her husband is no where to be found.


I'll bet she was pissed off having to kick her boyfriend out 6-8 hours before she needed to :ph34r:

#40 some dude

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 04:39 PM

Yur speling iz terabul

#41 By the lee

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:37 PM

Minipulate?

Yeah, I read it as "mini-pu-late"? :lol:

#42 Matno Beatno

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:30 AM

Good lord, who doesn't start a race day with a beer????

days of 10 and 5 min gun:

10 min gun :

make sure all other boats see crew with a can of beer in the hand ( first for the day )

5 min gun :

no more beer

clear decks


make them think we were a bunch of alcohol impaired drunks that could not be taken seriously


some did not like the results sheet .............


Oh, and so hard into the slops between the finish and the marina that they thought we were like that for the whole day ...................






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