50 replies to this topic

[IanB]

So, crazy story.

Steve Clark gives me a boat about 6 years ago, it took me about 600 bucks to get it rigged up and ready to go back in 06' but now I have sailed it maybe 3 times in that period due to job, access to ramps, access to proper storage blah blah blah. Well, now I live on a pretty good sized lake here in NE, and even though it is going to be nothing like sailing in the Ocean, it's still a pretty good place to sail, as I have seen a few Cat's out on the lake already.

Here are some photo's and my return to the sailing world (not that you ever really leave) and hopefully I can get 'good' at this sailing thing again!

One question on rigging though, I am not sure how the boom and the main line should be rigged up, I don't remember switching anything around from what Steve gave me, but here is the boat and would liek anyone to describe how they might run this main line for the boom?

Thanks again!



Here is that running line tip I am looking for, as I am just not sure how to tie off and run that large blue line and be positive it is working well.



Another Photo of the 'smaller block' down towards the stern of the boat. Wierd how the larger block is up towards the center?

[FishAintBiting]

Take some pride in your boat and give it a clean.

Looks really sweet otherwise. Happy sailing

Fish

[Seattle Dinghyer]

Not so weird... I'd bet your boat main sheets directly from the boom. Since you're trapping out all the time it's usually easier, anyway. The small block may be for a traveler arrangement. It'd be ideal if you're sheeting to the boom to use a Harken Ratchamatic block and get rid of that POS block that's on there now...it'll engage under load and release when not. Still, you should get rid of this boat and get something that cute kid can go out on someday!

I could promise it'd get some use out here in Seattle!

[Liquid]

Another Photo of the 'smaller block' down towards the stern of the boat. Wierd how the larger block is up towards the center?

Looks like straight boom sheeting. The aft end of the sheet exits that harken, goes down to the other black block below and ties off back up on the becket of the Harken it exited. It looks like a soft traveler system, meaning the micro block ('smaller block' called a micro) runs side to side on it. The line that runs through the micro will need to be above the tiller.

Second the Ratchomatic for the lead block.

Give it a good cleaning, you may find the deck to be extremely slippery

[Liquid]

Just noticed that port foot chuck isn't long for this world...

[IanB]

Hey all, thanks so much for all the help and friendly words about washingthe Boat! I can only agree!

I will take a look at one of those new blocks for the main sheet and will post photos of how I setup the main through my existing hardware.

Most importantly thanks for welcoming me back to SA.

[bruno]

I would put a tarp over it out of respect for the gift. $20

[IanB]

Yeah, I dserve the tarp comment...don't worry she will be getting proper care again soon....

I ran the main sheet the way I think it should be run...what do you guys think?

[kprice]

Yeah, I dserve the tarp comment...don't worry she will be getting proper care again soon....

I ran the main sheet the way I think it should be run...what do you guys think?

Start from the becket on the block near the end of the boom. Go down to the block on the floor, then back up to the block on the boom. Then forward to the block on the boom, which should be a ratchet block, then to your hand.

Have fun.

KP.

[fdsailor]

What is she?

[FoilerMothGuy]

Vector prototype, built by steve clark of C class cat and vanguard fame and fortune. I think it was a fair bit lighter than a production Vector and if sailed right would be quite a fun little weapon. Ian was gifted the boat when Steve was cleaning out his legendary shed of a few toys and he subsequently refitted it.

Sad to see it's been left to be overgrown - Ian, I know life is the antithesis of sailing but it's not too hard to keep a boat in reasonable nick. Don't bother with the tarp, just take it down to a sailmakers and shell out for a proper fitted cover, it's well worth the extra outlay.

[IanB]

Yup, now that I see her rigged up again and all the effort that went into the shape of the boat, I feel it is 100% going to be getting a cover and some proper winter storage so I can work on the bits of paint that have peeled up...

Luckily the garage is ready for this project come winter. For now I just want to get out into some clear wind.

[IanB]

One last thing. Steve said this didn't become the production boat because it was to slow up wind. But would go like a rocket down wind. We will see this summer if that is true.

[BalticBandit]

Yeah, I dserve the tarp comment...don't worry she will be getting proper care again soon....

I ran the main sheet the way I think it should be run...what do you guys think?

Start from the becket on the block near the end of the boom. Go down to the block on the floor, then back up to the block on the boom. Then forward to the block on the boom, which should be a ratchet block, then to your hand.

Have fun.

KP.

Exactly... the way you have it rigged right now is braindead. Go look at a 49er or a B5 Bieker on the docss. If you insist on cleating the main... take a looke at the Swift Solos.

Essentially the sheet - ties into the becket of the aft block on the boom - runs down to the block on the traveller, - back up to the back end of the boom - then fwd to the block on the main - which needs to be a Harken or Ronstan autoratchet - then to your hands. NOCLEAT

[duncan (the other one)]

[Icedtea]

Duncan is that a pic of a Vector?


The boat flying squirrek was the prototype for?

[IanB]

The Vanguard Vector was a production boat, and the prototypes that were tested and built were The Flying Squirrel #1 and #2, (I think they were built with slightly different designs and I have no idea if I have #1 or #2) Just that I do have a boat and it needs to be cleaned up and fitted properly.

Thanks for all the help on running the main sheet. (The photo above I think is not a vector, unless I have the design totally wrong in my head of the Vector Bow)
I don't know the boat, but maybe a swift solor or something?

Ian

[Liquid]

Not a Vector and that is your rigging guide for the your main sheet set up!

[Reht]

Not a Vector and that is your rigging guide for the your main sheet set up!

And (to my eyes) that is a RS100. Vector would look a little more like this:

[nacraoverlord]

Vanguard's version of the 29er/29erXX

[GybeSet®]

One last thing. Steve said this didn't become the production boat because it was to slow up wind. But would go like a rocket down wind. We will see this summer if that is true.

thats relative ( to maybe prototype #2 / eventual production design)

it still won't be slow, if you don't get good real soon you should exchange it for something you can daysail, and get this to someone who can make use of it and store it appropriately

[FishAintBiting]

...

it still won't be slow, if you don't get good real soon you should exchange it for something you can daysail, and get this to someone who can make use of it and store it appropriately

Typically you value most what you've worked hardest for. Would seem, from all the photos and promises of it will happen, that you do not value your gift.

+1 on giving it to someone who will use it and value it

[IanB]

Wow, this being an SA forum I can see why people want me to give it away. However Wtf guys, I am trying to get the boat back into shape so I can use it.

On another point there are extremely few people who actually want to or have the time to sail a one-off skidded like this in New England. Last time I checked there wasn't anyone who took me up on an offer to crew or steer the boat while I crew. So giving it away is a good idea if someone would actually use it! Most likely it will be someone else similar to me who had sailing dreams but little time or access to ramps and storage conditions.

I am keeping this boat and the time and money required will go into it now that I have sorted access and storage conditions. Also, teaching my son on this boat will be awesome as he gets older as we will be a good wieght for the boat.

So few downsides, and you still want me to give this away. I thought this was an SA forum not a charity giveaway contest. All boats can be fixed up and look good if the hull is sound, and this has been kept water free and it is again ready to go, and that is my intention, to sail this fuqr soon.

[Snow Guy]

The Vanguard Vector was a production boat, and the prototypes that were tested and built were The Flying Squirrel #1 and #2, (I think they were built with slightly different designs and I have no idea if I have #1 or #2) Just that I do have a boat and it needs to be cleaned up and fitted properly.

Thanks for all the help on running the main sheet. (The photo above I think is not a vector, unless I have the design totally wrong in my head of the Vector Bow)
I don't know the boat, but maybe a swift solor or something?

Ian

That was #1. I'm sure Steve will be around to clear it up at some point, but pretty sure there was only 1 real Flying Squirrel. I had prototype #2 of the Vector and while it had "Flying Squirrel" on the sail bags, it was quite a bit different. The main differences were the SA/D ratio and it had racks instead of wings. I believe the rig I had was much closer to the production model.

Attached is a photo. Before everyone starts cracking on me, it was my first (and only) skiff and the photo is from my third time out. Also, my crew was scared to get out on the trap because he didn't have much experience and it was rather gusty that day. The photo was taken when we were limping the boat in. Due to it being a proto made for a few months of testing and me getting it in '08, it was a bit tired and we pulled out the starboard chainplate in a wipeout.

Attached Files

•  Vector 3.JPG   57.47K   100 downloads

[Liquid]

Wow, this being an SA forum I can see why people want me to give it away. However Wtf guys, I am trying to get the boat back into shape so I can use it.

On another point there are extremely few people who actually want to or have the time to sail a one-off skidded like this in New England. Last time I checked there wasn't anyone who took me up on an offer to crew or steer the boat while I crew. So giving it away is a good idea if someone would actually use it! Most likely it will be someone else similar to me who had sailing dreams but little time or access to ramps and storage conditions.

I am keeping this boat and the time and money required will go into it now that I have sorted access and storage conditions. Also, teaching my son on this boat will be awesome as he gets older as we will be a good wieght for the boat.

So few downsides, and you still want me to give this away. I thought this was an SA forum not a charity giveaway contest. All boats can be fixed up and look good if the hull is sound, and this has been kept water free and it is again ready to go, and that is my intention, to sail this fuqr soon.

Fix it up and sail it like you stole it!

[IanB]

So unbelievably a HUGE West Marine in my area stocked all the ronstan and Harlem gear a dinghy fan could ask for, and I was able to get there 40 series autoratchet block and some new gloves, and a rig tension meter, so here is the setup before it goes out for its first voyage in about 5 years tomorrow.

[Liquid]

So unbelievably a HUGE West Marine in my area stocked all the ronstan and Harlem gear a dinghy fan could ask for, and I was able to get there 40 series autoratchet block and some new gloves, and a rig tension meter, so here is the setup before it goes out for its first voyage in about 5 years tomorrow.

Harlem blocks - Harken blocks.... I prefer Harken!

Bingo! Mainsheet rigged!

You will also want to splice/tie the end of the main sheet to the end of the jib sheet. This makes both sheets more accessible from the wire as someone will always have at least one of the sheets in their hand and can pass the other sheet over after a turn. Also, put a stopper knot in the main sheet so the boom stops easing out about 2-3' from the shrouds. A max ease knot on the jib is also a good idea. Adjust length of sheets accordingly. Basically with all sheets at max ease, you want just barely enought slack to reach to you hands while on the wire. Big breeze on, blow sheets and hold onto the slack.

[IanB]

Ok, so I got my add kicked today. 30 minutes of conservative sailing was ok, but after a while I decided to crank in the main and go out on the wire....you can imagine how that worked out. sPLaSHED.

Boat mast was far less 'sealed' than it should be and it turtled in no time, had to ask a power boater who thankfully came out and rescued me!

Mast was so full of water I am glad this happened in a lake!

Next week will be spent sealing up the mast so it doesn't happen again.

Should I really be sailing this on the ocean or does it not mater really in the knock down phases?

The lake wind was so shifty, and as soon as I had it in a groove, I would be forced to tack again. ;(

[Seattle Dinghyer]

Looks like a ton of fun.. congrats on getting out there~! Don't want you to get more work on the platter, but scrape off that peeling pain in the wood sections and cover it with something water resistant.. It'll rot out pretty quick in that environment. I'd reverse the setup for the trap, too, and run the gear on the "outside than the in". It'll allow the crew to be further from midline when they're getting on the wire(s).

Keep the pictures coming!

[BalticBandit]

Ok, so I got my add kicked today. 30 minutes of conservative sailing was ok, but after a while I decided to crank in the main and go out on the wire....you can imagine how that worked out. sPLaSHED.

Boat mast was far less 'sealed' than it should be and it turtled in no time, had to ask a power boater who thankfully came out and rescued me!

Mast was so full of water I am glad this happened in a lake!

Next week will be spent sealing up the mast so it doesn't happen again.

Should I really be sailing this on the ocean or does it not mater really in the knock down phases?

The lake wind was so shifty, and as soon as I had it in a groove, I would be forced to tack again. ;(

I wouldn't seal the mast. because it will not be 100% and that just means the water will run out more slowly when you have to right it.

Remember that even if the mast is full of water, its not going to take any extra effort to move from turtle to mast parallel to the water. Water in the mast just makes it harder to get from 90 deg to upright. And if you make it EaSIER for the water to get in and out of the mast, you will actually IMPROVE how easy it is to right. Essentially you just need to get it 90deb to water and let the water drain out of the mast. THEN right it the rest of the way.

So I'd actually go the opposite way.

[IanB]

Hmmm, I was standing on the blade very quickly, the mast had only just started to barely dip under, unfortunately I wasn't able to right the boat with only my wieght at this moment, and I kept losing ground every second.

Maybe because I had to in clear the jib, I lost so much time and it went under.

Honestly though, I REALLY think I could use some bouancy in my mast?

[Icedtea]

Just making sure the mast is properly sealed will do a lot for you in that respect

[Daniel Holman]

A truly sealed mast will be a bouyant volume that will provide a returning moment as distinct from a flooded mast which will have slight negative bouyancy on account of te composite or Ali being denser that water.
Agreed it would be pretty tricky to run a truly sealed mast, but it is possible.

[Steve Clark]

Rocket J . Squirrel looks in pretty tough shape.
I assume she is a lot cleaner now.
On sealing masts:
The Vectors all ha\d external spectra cored halyards or clam cleats where the halyard locks would normally be.
They had big holes in the mast steps so that any water that did find it's way inside drained right out again.
as the mast step was normally above the waterline with the on it's side, the mast wouldn't fill.

I don't think one of the boats I gave away has become anything that anyone values. I think they are all gathering grime in people's back yards. So much for trying to young and enthusiastic sailors a leg up into high performance sailing. Kind of depressing really.
SHC

[IanB]

Luckily, this aspiring sailor hasn't forgotten the gift and she did get out there today.

Hope to work harder to show my appreciation for the gift in the future.

[BalticBandit]

Hmmm, I was standing on the blade very quickly, the mast had only just started to barely dip under, unfortunately I wasn't able to right the boat with only my wieght at this moment, and I kept losing ground every second.

Maybe because I had to in clear the jib, I lost so much time and it went under.

Honestly though, I REALLY think I could use some bouancy in my mast?

Unless all your halyards are external, you are unlikely to get a 100% seal. But lets say you did. your rig I assume is somewhere between a 49er and a Musto in lenth. so lets say 30' And you have an interior volume of about pi x 1" 360"... = 265 curbic feet.

And those 2.6 cubic feet of displacement are acting with a 15' lever arm at 90 degree flotation point. Mind you the rig and sails weigh about 30# so what we have is a righting force of (62#_{cuft fresh water} x .65 - 30#_rigWt) x 15" = 154 Foot Pounds.

That's the equivilent of you moving 8" further out on the board. Say if you added a righting line so that instead of leaning in, you could stand veritcally on the board that would be half of that. Note also that a sealed mast DOES NOTHING to your ability to raise the mast from 90 deg to vertical And it sounds like THAT was your primary problem.

Remember that once immersed you progressively LOSE the bouyancy benafit the more inverted you get.


So it seems to mee the problem is more likely that you need a righting line rather than a sealed mast. In fact i'd experiment with this in shalloe water: in about 6' of water flip the boat, make sure the mast fills with water. And figure out how to right the boat. THEN and ONLY then go out in deeper water.


Note also that you might consider righting the boat to WINDWARD - that way the wind HELPS right the boat

Ignore my crash after 45 secs but here's a video of me doing a windward righing in about 15knots of breeze notice how the sail fills and helps lift the mast?

[Swampy73]

Assuming that the main and jib are not cleated. Don't forget to drop the vang/kicker. This allows the head of the sail to spill open and lets the boat come back up. We have all sorts of trouble righting our 16 footer unless we knock the vang off.

[richklein]

I know it is just me, but every time I see the picture of the boat my heart sinks, would you be so kind as to give her a good scrub job and post a photo, I need a little closure on this one.

[FishAintBiting]

I know it is just me, but every time I see the picture of the boat my heart sinks, would you be so kind as to give her a good scrub job and post a photo, I need a little closure on this one.

We all need closure on this.

Unfortunately hollow words such as, "Hope to work harder to show my appreciation for the gift in the future.", really don't inspire.

Surely it'd take under an hour, with a brush and some car wash to give it a good clean?

[Le Shark]

I know it is just me, but every time I see the picture of the boat my heart sinks, would you be so kind as to give her a good scrub job and post a photo, I need a little closure on this one.

+1

You got given a boat that quite a few people here would have worked their asses off to get: the least you could do would be to run a hose over her and get a decent cover.

[IanB]

To follow up, picture after I get the boat clean tomorrow. Once again, just give me a chance....and ANYONE is open to coming up and sailing with me. Just get in touch, I think there is a big misconception about how many people actually want to jump in this thing.

Please reach out if you want a ride ANYTIME.

[Snow Guy]

I don't think one of the boats I gave away has become anything that anyone values. I think they are all gathering grime in people's back yards. So much for trying to young and enthusiastic sailors a leg up into high performance sailing. Kind of depressing really.
SHC

Steve,
I definitely appreciated the opportunity to own the one I did. If it wasn't for you, I probably wouldn't have tried a skiff for a long time, if ever. The problem is there aren't too many around here. There also aren't too many crew that would commit to learning the boat. I had a bunch of offers when people saw it in the boat lot, but it seemed like a bunch were afraid to try something new. It is tough to learn those kind of high performance boats when you don't have consistent crew. I did as instructed and gave it to someone else when I didn't have the time/money/knowledge to take fair care of it. I haven't talked to him, but hope he is using it.

Dan

Edit- If anyone wants to show me how you really sail a skiff, I'm down. Fast is fun!

[IanB]

Ok, scrubbing time was limited but here is some progress. After finishing the scrub-job, I will pickup some paint and grind down some of the more undesirable chips and cracks throughout the boat. One larger bit of separation at the aft section is going to need some glass/attention but I am going to try and just epoxy the delimitation for this season, then grind it our over the long winter here in NE.

Should I use just regular polly? or should I use some carbon to repair the section when the time comes? (photo to come after scrubbing is complete)

[BalticBandit]

Ok, scrubbing time was limited but here is some progress. After finishing the scrub-job, I will pickup some paint and grind down some of the more undesirable chips and cracks throughout the boat. One larger bit of separation at the aft section is going to need some glass/attention but I am going to try and just epoxy the delimitation for this season, then grind it our over the long winter here in NE.

Should I use just regular polly? or should I use some carbon to repair the section when the time comes? (photo to come after scrubbing is complete)

Better... that's a happier boat.

I'd recommend though that you consider taking a day and doing the glass in the back right. In the heat of a warm summer, you can get it ground out, patched on the inside, cored, patched on the outside and rough edges sanded off in about 4 hours... Then you can smooth it out in the winter. Problem with working on it in the winter is that without a warm interior space, getting the epoxy to kick is a pain.

[richklein]

Thanks, that is much better, doing the TLC touches to keep her structurally sound and dry are as much a part of owning a boat as sailing her. Post some detail photos of the problem areas and you will get expert, detailed advice on the repairs, that will benefit all reading this thread. Thanks for stepping up.

[ColoradoSailor]

Sad thread. I'm sure there are many people that would appreciate a free boat much more than you have. You should do the right thing and pass it along to someone with a little dignity.

[derelicte]

about sealing the mast, wouldn't it be easier to attach a float to the masthead while you are still learning?

[BalticBandit]

about sealing the mast, wouldn't it be easier to attach a float to the masthead while you are still learning?

That's not a bad idea. In the early days of 49ers, some of the SFO fleet had milk jugs tied to the masthead. Its that simple.

[richklein]

Or some closed cell foam attached with Velcro patches on the head of the main.

[Steam Flyer]

Or some closed cell foam attached with Velcro patches on the head of the main.

We put swim noodles on the upper shrouds of our centerboard boats. They last about a year in the sun... doesn't make the boat turtle-proof totally but if the skipper is somewhat clued then it helps a lot.

FB- Doug

[roblynn]

Ok, so I got my add kicked today. 30 minutes of conservative sailing was ok, but after a while I decided to crank in the main and go out on the wire....you can imagine how that worked out. sPLaSHED.

Boat mast was far less 'sealed' than it should be and it turtled in no time, had to ask a power boater who thankfully came out and rescued me!

Mast was so full of water I am glad this happened in a lake!

Next week will be spent sealing up the mast so it doesn't happen again.

Should I really be sailing this on the ocean or does it not mater really in the knock down phases?

The lake wind was so shifty, and as soon as I had it in a groove, I would be forced to tack again. ;(

Maybe someone already addressed this issue, but I would recommend putting a float on the mast to avoid turtling. You can take it off when you feel later. I sail my 29er solo and keep it there all the time so I have time to bring in the kite when I gybe & crash, or to take a break from the beating after a capsize.

Robert B.