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Muslim brotherhood wins in Egypt


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#201 JMD

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:37 PM


“According to several reports in the Arabic media, prominent Muslim clerics have begun to call for the demolition of Egypt’s Great Pyramids—or, in the words of Saudi Sheikh Ali bin Said al-Rabi’i, those “symbols of paganism,” which Egypt’s Salafi party has long planned to cover with wax. Most recently, Bahrain’s “Sheikh of Sunni Sheikhs” and President of National Unity, Abd al-Latif al-Mahmoud, called on Egypt’s new president, Muhammad Morsi, to “destroy the Pyramids and accomplish what the Amr bin al-As could not.”

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/07/10/calls-to-destroy-egypts-great-pyramids-begin/


Wow, that would take a LOT of wax!

Back in the day the Islamic scientists were pretty bad ass, now you have fellas that don't know what happens to wax in a desert.

#202 JBSF

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:09 PM



“According to several reports in the Arabic media, prominent Muslim clerics have begun to call for the demolition of Egypt’s Great Pyramids—or, in the words of Saudi Sheikh Ali bin Said al-Rabi’i, those “symbols of paganism,” which Egypt’s Salafi party has long planned to cover with wax. Most recently, Bahrain’s “Sheikh of Sunni Sheikhs” and President of National Unity, Abd al-Latif al-Mahmoud, called on Egypt’s new president, Muhammad Morsi, to “destroy the Pyramids and accomplish what the Amr bin al-As could not.”

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/07/10/calls-to-destroy-egypts-great-pyramids-begin/


Wow, that would take a LOT of wax!

Back in the day the Islamic scientists were pretty bad ass, now you have fellas that don't know what happens to wax in a desert.

They should stick to just waxing poetic.

#203 Mark K

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:48 PM


Do you call critics of mormons/christians/hindu/voodoo religions bigoted-phobic-racist-hater-idiot-jackass or do you only hurl those slurs at critics of Islam in a pathetic attempt to silence them?

We're not calling you an idiot and jackass because you criticize Islam. Islam NEEDs the be roundly criticized - its fucked up in so many ways. We call you an idiot and JA mainly because of your one-trick pony act (at least IMO) with the cut-n-pastes about old-skool islam in each and every post that even has a whiff of anything to do with muslims, Islam or even the ME. If we were to read the bible or the Torah literally - it fares not much better than the Koran for idiotic decrees and people behaving badly. Don't take that as a defense of Mo or Islamic fundies, its not by any stretch. But there are just as many fundie christians who are idiots and take the bible way too literally. I think where I have a gripe with you, is not in the accuracy of your information - but in the implication and context that you attempt to portray ALL Muslims as literalists of the Quran. It just ain't so. So what if the koran says they can have sex slaves - it doesn't mean they ALL follow that. I'm sure there are some really nasty habits the OT allowed, but I don't think many Christians claim that they can still do those things. Why don't we reserve our outrage for the people who actually DO follow the quran that literally and have sex slaves and perform honor killings and such and leave the other 800M people who don't follow that shit to the letter?

I think the overwhelming difference between the Western/Judeo-Christian and the Muslim areas is CULTURE rather than pure religion. Or I should say a lack of secularism to balance out the religious crap. It took the West a LONG time to get to a more "enlightened" phase of development which was mainly due to secularism being a counter-balance to the religious dogma. The muslim world doesn't have that much... yet. They are taking baby steps in many places but they're getting there. There are places on earth that are still 700 years behind the West culturally.

So lets cut to the chase here - your posts about the koran and muslims are fine in theory, but it breaks down when you try to paint all Muslims with that same wide brush. What would be very helpful is if you could at least be a bit more selective so that your posts are actually relevant to the thread and when you do post your academics about the koran - at least put it in context.

Actually what would be REALLY HELPFUL is if you could give a brief explantion of why you have such a hard-on against Islam? As I said, I would be the LAST guy to defend most of the practices of Islam - but I don't like the broad-brush you're using to paint all muslims the same. Understanding where you're coming from and what your agenda is would make it much easier to put your posts in context. CONTEXT MY BOY, CONTEXT!


Harumph.

#204 Mark K

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:33 AM



Godfrey is definitely not an idiot. He may write things the people don't like, but he knows his scholarship inside and out. It may be easy to disagree with his his general intent, but I've yet to see anyone successfully challenge him on his specifics.

He married a Muslim too, so it isn't fair to claim that he hates Islam.


Did you watch Lang's lecture?


I did - would love to find a transcript, as my audio quality was crap...



The article he mentioned that could serve as notes to the students is available, but it's pretty "Joe Friday". Missing a lot of context.

#205 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:37 AM




Godfrey is definitely not an idiot. He may write things the people don't like, but he knows his scholarship inside and out. It may be easy to disagree with his his general intent, but I've yet to see anyone successfully challenge him on his specifics.

He married a Muslim too, so it isn't fair to claim that he hates Islam.


Did you watch Lang's lecture?


I did - would love to find a transcript, as my audio quality was crap...


Indeed so sir. Either way - thanks for sharing that - I hadn't been aware of it, and got a lot from the points he brought up.

The article he mentioned that could serve as notes to the students is available, but it's pretty "Joe Friday". Missing a lot of context.



#206 Mohammed Bin Lyin

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:01 AM


Do you call critics of mormons/christians/hindu/voodoo religions bigoted-phobic-racist-hater-idiot-jackass or do you only hurl those slurs at critics of Islam in a pathetic attempt to silence them?

We're not calling you an idiot and jackass because you criticize Islam. Islam NEEDs the be roundly criticized - its fucked up in so many ways.
If it needs to be criticised then why do leftists from the USA throw slurs like phobic-bigot-etc at critics of Islam?


If we were to read the bible or the Torah literally - it fares not much better than the Koran for idiotic decrees and people behaving badly. Don't take that as a defense of Mo or Islamic fundies, its not by any stretch. But there are just as many fundie christians who are idiots and take the bible way too literally. I think where I have a gripe with you, is not in the accuracy of your information - but in the implication and context that you attempt to portray ALL Muslims as literalists of the Quran. It just ain't so. So what if the koran says they can have sex slaves - it doesn't mean they ALL follow that.
Pope leo told the christians not to take the bible literally,when did the christians stop killing heretics?
If a muslim believes Mohammad is a prophet from god are they taking the Quran literally with that?
Not all muslims are aware that sex slaves are halal for muslim men and many deny this is true despite the evidence in Islamic texts



I'm sure there are some really nasty habits the OT allowed, but I don't think many Christians claim that they can still do those things. Why don't we reserve our outrage for the people who actually DO follow the quran that literally and have sex slaves and perform honor killings and such and leave the other 800M people who don't follow that shit to the letter?
As we saw with Ft Hood ,all a muslim needs is a spark of faith to have fundamentalist views.


I think the overwhelming difference between the Western/Judeo-Christian and the Muslim areas is CULTURE rather than pure religion. Or I should say a lack of secularism to balance out the religious crap. It took the West a LONG time to get to a more "enlightened" phase of development which was mainly due to secularism being a counter-balance to the religious dogma. The muslim world doesn't have that much... yet. They are taking baby steps in many places but they're getting there. There are places on earth that are still 700 years behind the West culturally.
Islamic culture is based on religion, democracy is an unIslamic concept.
The good sheik tells you why democracy should be opposed-http://www.islam-qa....07166/democracy


So lets cut to the chase here - your posts about the koran and muslims are fine in theory, but it breaks down when you try to paint all Muslims with that same wide brush. What would be very helpful is if you could at least be a bit more selective so that your posts are actually relevant to the thread and when you do post your academics about the koran - at least put it in context.
The sex slave post was in response to another post about the first sex slave marriage in Egypt,its got me fucked why he married her allah allows sex with sex slaves.
Not all muslims have read the Quran just like not all christians have read the bible, those who take Islam seriously understand what is in the texts and some get quite a shock when they read them.
Please learn the difference between Islamic ideology and muslims,Islam is forbidden to change yet muslims can change.
The Ahmadi muslims should be at the bottom of the list as they beleive in separation of mosque and state, they have reformed Islam to the point where they cannot call themselves muslims in Pakistan where they originated
they are persecuted by all sects of Islam and considered deviant heretics.

Actually what would be REALLY HELPFUL is if you could give a brief explantion of why you have such a hard-on against Islam? As I said, I would be the LAST guy to defend most of the practices of Islam - but I don't like the broad-brush you're using to paint all muslims the same. Understanding where you're coming from and what your agenda is would make it much easier to put your posts in context. CONTEXT MY BOY, CONTEXT!
Islam is a bullshit belief barfed up by a 7th century desert bandit, why do people put respect for ancient beliefs before respect for humanity?



#207 Mohammed Bin Lyin

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:24 AM

"According to several reports in the Arabic media, prominent Muslim clerics have begun to call for the demolition of Egypt's Great Pyramids—or, in the words of Saudi Sheikh Ali bin Said al-Rabi'i, those "symbols of paganism," which Egypt's Salafi party has long planned to cover with wax. Most recently, Bahrain's "Sheikh of Sunni Sheikhs" and President of National Unity, Abd al-Latif al-Mahmoud, called on Egypt's new president, Muhammad Morsi, to "destroy the Pyramids and accomplish what the Amr bin al-As could not."

http://pjmedia.com/t...pyramids-begin/



Islam is a form of tribal Arab imperialism which replaces conquered cultures with Islam.
Reverts to Islam (convert is christian terminology) usually adopt an arabic name, they wear Arab clothes, learn the arab language, follow arab dietry rules and include arab architecture with those mosques.


http://www.raymondib...-pyramids-begin

#208 JBSF

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:49 AM



Do you call critics of mormons/christians/hindu/voodoo religions bigoted-phobic-racist-hater-idiot-jackass or do you only hurl those slurs at critics of Islam in a pathetic attempt to silence them?

We're not calling you an idiot and jackass because you criticize Islam. Islam NEEDs the be roundly criticized - its fucked up in so many ways.
If it needs to be criticised then why do leftists from the USA throw slurs like phobic-bigot-etc at critics of Islam?
It depends on how you criticize them, not simply if you do.


If we were to read the bible or the Torah literally - it fares not much better than the Koran for idiotic decrees and people behaving badly. Don't take that as a defense of Mo or Islamic fundies, its not by any stretch. But there are just as many fundie christians who are idiots and take the bible way too literally. I think where I have a gripe with you, is not in the accuracy of your information - but in the implication and context that you attempt to portray ALL Muslims as literalists of the Quran. It just ain't so. So what if the koran says they can have sex slaves - it doesn't mean they ALL follow that.
Pope leo told the christians not to take the bible literally,when did the christians stop killing heretics? No clue. But as I said, I never ahve given a pass to muslims who do this. I'm just saying some are about 700 years behind the times. But not ALL
If a muslim believes Mohammad is a prophet from god are they taking the Quran literally with that? Don't christians believe the same about Jesus?
Not all muslims are aware that sex slaves are halal for muslim men and many deny this is true despite the evidence in Islamic texts. So what? As I said there are plenty of stuff in the Old Testament Bible that talks about killing, and slavery, child sacrifice, women as men's property, etc. Again, So what? Just because its written down somewhere a 1000 years ago doesn't mean that everyone follows it.


I'm sure there are some really nasty habits the OT allowed, but I don't think many Christians claim that they can still do those things. Why don't we reserve our outrage for the people who actually DO follow the quran that literally and have sex slaves and perform honor killings and such and leave the other 800M people who don't follow that shit to the letter?
As we saw with Ft Hood ,all a muslim needs is a spark of faith to have fundamentalist views. DO you REALLY want to get into a pissing contest about Christians who get a spark of fundie views and goes postal? It is certainly not unique to Islam.


I think the overwhelming difference between the Western/Judeo-Christian and the Muslim areas is CULTURE rather than pure religion. Or I should say a lack of secularism to balance out the religious crap. It took the West a LONG time to get to a more "enlightened" phase of development which was mainly due to secularism being a counter-balance to the religious dogma. The muslim world doesn't have that much... yet. They are taking baby steps in many places but they're getting there. There are places on earth that are still 700 years behind the West culturally.
Islamic culture is based on religion, democracy is an unIslamic concept.
The good sheik tells you why democracy should be opposed-http://www.islam-qa....07166/democracy

So? let them figure out democracy on their own. Who are we to force them to adopt democracy? If the people want sharia laq, let them have sharia law. If they find out its not as great as they hoped, and they likely will, then they will change it on their own.

So lets cut to the chase here - your posts about the koran and muslims are fine in theory, but it breaks down when you try to paint all Muslims with that same wide brush. What would be very helpful is if you could at least be a bit more selective so that your posts are actually relevant to the thread and when you do post your academics about the koran - at least put it in context.
The sex slave post was in response to another post about the first sex slave marriage in Egypt,its got me fucked why he married her allah allows sex with sex slaves.
Not all muslims have read the Quran just like not all christians have read the bible, those who take Islam seriously understand what is in the texts and some get quite a shock when they read them. I'm sure devout chriistians get quite a shock at some of the barbarity in the bible. It comes down to what you choose to believe and how literally you want to interpret it.
Please learn the difference between Islamic ideology and muslims,Islam is forbidden to change yet muslims can change.
The Ahmadi muslims should be at the bottom of the list as they beleive in separation of mosque and state, they have reformed Islam to the point where they cannot call themselves muslims in Pakistan where they originated
they are persecuted by all sects of Islam and considered deviant heretics. See, it sounds like there IS hope for muslims afterall if some are reforming.

Actually what would be REALLY HELPFUL is if you could give a brief explantion of why you have such a hard-on against Islam? As I said, I would be the LAST guy to defend most of the practices of Islam - but I don't like the broad-brush you're using to paint all muslims the same. Understanding where you're coming from and what your agenda is would make it much easier to put your posts in context. CONTEXT MY BOY, CONTEXT!
Islam is a bullshit belief barfed up by a 7th century desert bandit, why do people put respect for ancient beliefs before respect for humanity? You're still not answering the question. Many people believe the same about Christianity, and with some good reason. But you go far beyond that, there is some personal beef you have. I understand you married a Muslim.... was she brutalized or in some way scarred by Islam or another muslim? Did you lose someone in the WTC on 9/11. What is it? I'm not trying to bait you, because if yes to any of those, then you have a legit beef. I'm just trying to understand what the vehemenant hatred for a specific religion.

Yes, I agree that Islam is likely a made-up bunch of crap that denegrates women. But just as there are some really perverse crap in Christianity if you take it too literally, there is also some good in there as well.

Look, it took Christianity a couple of thousand years to get to the "Love" portion. Before that, it was violence, misogynoy, war, retribution, slavery - you name it. Islam just hasn't found their Jesus or their Martin Luther yet. As a western "enlightened" culture - it isn't our place to tell them they're wrong. We should work to contain the uglier parts of Islam fundamentalism while encouraging them to develop the better parts and not be afraid of secularism as a healthy counter-balance to their pure religious bent.




#209 opa1

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 02:50 PM

A lot of people call for Democracy throughout the world, which I personally support.. Well, that means free elections and a slate of candidates that is chosen by the citizens. Well, in Egypt's case, the Muslim Brotherhood was and is a member of that Society and they were elected in a free and democratic fashion. Now all of a sudden a lot of people blame this election on Obama. Obama didn't put the Muslim Brotherhood on the slate, Egypt did. What do you expect the U.S. to do? Invade? By the way, I think the military is still holding on to power in spite of the election results. That's what should really be bothering everyone. In the case of the U.S., if someone who is Muslim ever tried to run for POTUS, he/she would probably be shot long before the election. Oops, forgot. A lot of people think Obama is Muslim. Yeah, right. I'm surprised some wing nut hasn't tried to shoot him yet, given all the inflammatory rhetoric by the likes of Trump, Palin and Bachmann. I think if you add up the IQ's of those three it would come to 3.

#210 frenchie

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:55 PM

Godfrey is definitely not an idiot. He may write things the people don't like, but he knows his scholarship inside and out. It may be easy to disagree with his his general intent, but I've yet to see anyone successfully challenge him on his specifics.

He married a Muslim too, so it isn't fair to claim that he hates Islam.


IIRC, he married an EX-Muslim, whose whole family was persecuted by fundamentalists.

It doesn't demonstrate his lack of hatred for Islam.

It explains why he does hate Islam.

#211 JBSF

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:27 AM


Godfrey is definitely not an idiot. He may write things the people don't like, but he knows his scholarship inside and out. It may be easy to disagree with his his general intent, but I've yet to see anyone successfully challenge him on his specifics.

He married a Muslim too, so it isn't fair to claim that he hates Islam.


IIRC, he married an EX-Muslim, whose whole family was persecuted by fundamentalists.

It doesn't demonstrate his lack of hatred for Islam.

It explains why he does hate Islam.


Ah, that's what I was trying to find out. Makes sense and kind of what I expected.

#212 GRUMPY

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 10:51 AM

Not married, a de facto relationship. Godfrey said his FIL (de facto) still goes to mosque on Fridays to keep up impressions rather than risk the apostate thing.

In Australia.

#213 JBSF

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 10:58 AM

Not married, a de facto relationship. Godfrey said his FIL (de facto) still goes to mosque on Fridays to keep up impressions rather than risk the apostate thing.

In Australia.

Lots of bitterness and resentment there, that's for sure. See kids, isn't context a wonderful thing?

#214 mikewof

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 04:10 PM



Godfrey is definitely not an idiot. He may write things the people don't like, but he knows his scholarship inside and out. It may be easy to disagree with his his general intent, but I've yet to see anyone successfully challenge him on his specifics.

He married a Muslim too, so it isn't fair to claim that he hates Islam.


IIRC, he married an EX-Muslim, whose whole family was persecuted by fundamentalists.

It doesn't demonstrate his lack of hatred for Islam.

It explains why he does hate Islam.


Ah, that's what I was trying to find out. Makes sense and kind of what I expected.


From what I remember from his posts, his wife didn't leave her Muslim community, but rather broke from the beliefs.

And I don't get that he hates Islam. He's definitely a critic, but his knowledge is vast. can someone spend that much time in scholarship of something and have real hate for it?

I used to work with a neo-Nazi, he claimed to hate Jews, all he knew of them was apparently what he read in his conspiracy books.

Godfrey studies the Koran apparently more than any of us.

We can ask him you know.

Godfrey, what do you have to say about these charges that you have this visceral hate for all things Islam? I say bullshit, I have a vague memory of you supporting the plight of the Sufis in an SA 9/11 thread a few years ago.

#215 JBSF

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 04:32 PM

Godfrey studies the Koran apparently more than any of us.

We can ask him you know.

Godfrey, what do you have to say about these charges that you have this visceral hate for all things Islam? I say bullshit, I have a vague memory of you supporting the plight of the Sufis in an SA 9/11 thread a few years ago.


I already asked that question several posts up.

And Just because he knows a lot about the koran doesn't make him not a hater of Islam either. I'm sure there are some whacko christians who can quote chapter and verse from the bible and still have a lot of hate in their hearts for certain groups.

#216 Saorsa

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:53 PM


Godfrey studies the Koran apparently more than any of us.

We can ask him you know.

Godfrey, what do you have to say about these charges that you have this visceral hate for all things Islam? I say bullshit, I have a vague memory of you supporting the plight of the Sufis in an SA 9/11 thread a few years ago.


I already asked that question several posts up.

And Just because he knows a lot about the koran doesn't make him not a hater of Islam either. I'm sure there are some whacko christians who can quote chapter and verse from the bible and still have a lot of hate in their hearts for certain groups.

Hey, you should hear the atheists quoting the bible when they argue with christians.

#217 mikewof

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:38 AM


Godfrey studies the Koran apparently more than any of us.

We can ask him you know.

Godfrey, what do you have to say about these charges that you have this visceral hate for all things Islam? I say bullshit, I have a vague memory of you supporting the plight of the Sufis in an SA 9/11 thread a few years ago.


I already asked that question several posts up.

And Just because he knows a lot about the koran doesn't make him not a hater of Islam either. I'm sure there are some whacko christians who can quote chapter and verse from the bible and still have a lot of hate in their hearts for certain groups.


Fair enough. But doesn't his encyclopedic knowledge of the Koran entitle him to some level of respect?

#218 JBSF

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:35 AM



Godfrey studies the Koran apparently more than any of us.

We can ask him you know.

Godfrey, what do you have to say about these charges that you have this visceral hate for all things Islam? I say bullshit, I have a vague memory of you supporting the plight of the Sufis in an SA 9/11 thread a few years ago.


I already asked that question several posts up.

And Just because he knows a lot about the koran doesn't make him not a hater of Islam either. I'm sure there are some whacko christians who can quote chapter and verse from the bible and still have a lot of hate in their hearts for certain groups.


Fair enough. But doesn't his encyclopedic knowledge of the Koran entitle him to some level of respect?


I think if you bothered to read, I DID give him a level of respect. However, Knowledge doesn't gloss over apparent hatred. He's just a more educated and better read Gaytor, who hates jews with about as much fervor as Godfrey seems to hate muslims. As I said, it might be easier if he could explain his agenda in his own words and put it into context better.

#219 Mohammed Bin Lyin

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:21 PM

I think if you bothered to read, I DID give him a level of respect. However, Knowledge doesn't gloss over apparent hatred. He's just a more educated and better read Gaytor, who hates jews with about as much fervor as Godfrey seems to hate muslims. As I said, it might be easier if he could explain his agenda in his own words and put it into context better.


I dont hate muslims it is the Islamic ideology i dislike, do you understand the difference between the 2 or do i have to explain it?

I have praised Dr Zuhdi Jasser several times in this forum,he is the President of the American Islamic form for Democracy you should read what he writes about Islam and it might help you understand what my agenda is.
http://aifdemocracy.org/about/
The big problem he has with with his intended reforms is the Quran specifically outlaws what he wants to do.
http://www.quran.com/2/85
Obama appaointed him to some important position, tip of the hat to Obama on that one

Cair and 64 other Islamic organisations in the USA are outraged at the appointment of Dr Jasser, i would suggest Americans read and listen to Dr Jasser over any of his pro Islam critics.
Article from AIFD website-
http://dailycaller.c...ment-in-america

Do people need a reason to oppose any beliefs that kill people in 2012 for apostasy-blasphemy-adultery-homosexuality-witchcraft or is it not ok to speak out about these barbaric acts?

#220 Mohammed Bin Lyin

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:38 PM

Not married, a de facto relationship. Godfrey said his FIL (de facto) still goes to mosque on Fridays to keep up impressions rather than risk the apostate thing.

In Australia.


You should join the aussie muslim forum grumpy, they keep banning me.

http://www.aussiemus...?9-In-The-Media

#221 JBSF

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:41 PM


I think if you bothered to read, I DID give him a level of respect. However, Knowledge doesn't gloss over apparent hatred. He's just a more educated and better read Gaytor, who hates jews with about as much fervor as Godfrey seems to hate muslims. As I said, it might be easier if he could explain his agenda in his own words and put it into context better.


I dont hate muslims it is the Islamic ideology i dislike, do you understand the difference between the 2 or do i have to explain it?

Do people need a reason to oppose any beliefs that kill people in 2012 for apostasy-blasphemy-adultery-homosexuality-witchcraft or is it not ok to speak out about these barbaric acts?


Ok, fair enough. I would ask though, because I honestly don't know the koran that well.... that because moderate practictioners of Islam don't seem to buy into the apostasy-blasphemy-adultery-homosexuality-witchcraft stuff anymore than Christians buy into or practice all the old testament stuff like child sacrifice, smite your enemies, etc in the bible - do you still oppose their beliefs or practice of the religion? Or are you just opposing the acts of the fundamentalists who interpret the koran a bit too literally?

#222 Mohammed Bin Lyin

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:04 PM




Godfrey is definitely not an idiot. He may write things the people don't like, but he knows his scholarship inside and out. It may be easy to disagree with his his general intent, but I've yet to see anyone successfully challenge him on his specifics.

He married a Muslim too, so it isn't fair to claim that he hates Islam.


IIRC, he married an EX-Muslim, whose whole family was persecuted by fundamentalists.

It doesn't demonstrate his lack of hatred for Islam.

It explains why he does hate Islam.


Ah, that's what I was trying to find out. Makes sense and kind of what I expected.


From what I remember from his posts, his wife didn't leave her Muslim community, but rather broke from the beliefs.

And I don't get that he hates Islam. He's definitely a critic, but his knowledge is vast. can someone spend that much time in scholarship of something and have real hate for it?

I used to work with a neo-Nazi, he claimed to hate Jews, all he knew of them was apparently what he read in his conspiracy books.

Godfrey studies the Koran apparently more than any of us.

We can ask him you know.

Godfrey, what do you have to say about these charges that you have this visceral hate for all things Islam? I say bullshit, I have a vague memory of you supporting the plight of the Sufis in an SA 9/11 thread a few years ago.


We are not married we prefer to live in sin.the law allows her to take half of my stuff we have been together for a while.

I support the plight of the Ahmadi muslims and those like Dr Jasser that draw a line between religion and political ideology.

It was Frenchie who supports the sufi, Al Ghazali was a sufi and he declared Ibn Sina to be an apostate and kafir, dim wits go and name a crater on the moon after him claiming he was muslim despite many scholars saying he was atheist.

In Al Ghazali's book "The incoherance of the phillosophers" he is very critical of Ibn Sina and there are fatwas confirming he is atheist, Ghazali was a huge setback for Islam.

The salafi will say the sufi are not muslims, they say the same about the shia.

#223 TMSAIL

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:17 PM



I think if you bothered to read, I DID give him a level of respect. However, Knowledge doesn't gloss over apparent hatred. He's just a more educated and better read Gaytor, who hates jews with about as much fervor as Godfrey seems to hate muslims. As I said, it might be easier if he could explain his agenda in his own words and put it into context better.


I dont hate muslims it is the Islamic ideology i dislike, do you understand the difference between the 2 or do i have to explain it?

Do people need a reason to oppose any beliefs that kill people in 2012 for apostasy-blasphemy-adultery-homosexuality-witchcraft or is it not ok to speak out about these barbaric acts?


Ok, fair enough. I would ask though, because I honestly don't know the koran that well.... that because moderate practictioners of Islam don't seem to buy into the apostasy-blasphemy-adultery-homosexuality-witchcraft stuff anymore than Christians buy into or practice all the old testament stuff like child sacrifice, smite your enemies, etc in the bible - do you still oppose their beliefs or practice of the religion? Or are you just opposing the acts of the fundamentalists who interpret the koran a bit too literally?


Your kidding right? Apostasy is a capital crime in more than one country

Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ردة‎ riddah, literally means: "relapse/regress" but usually translates to "apostasy", or ارتداد irtidād) is commonly defined in Islam as the rejection in word or deed of one's former religion (apostasy) by a person who was previously a follower of Islam. The Qur'an itself does not prescribe any earthly punishment for apostasy; Islamic scholarship differs on its punishment, ranging from execution – based on an interpretation of certain hadiths – to no punishment at all as long as they "do not work against the Muslim society or nation."[1] The majority of Muslim scholars hold to the traditional view that apostasy is punishable by death or imprisonment until repentance, at least for adult men of sound mind.[2][3][4] Several contemporary Muslim scholars, including influential Islamic reformers have rejected this, arguing for religious freedom instead.[5][3][6][7] According to Islamic law apostasy is identified by a list of actions such as conversion to another religion, denying the existence of God, rejecting the prophets, mocking God or the prophets, idol worship, rejecting the sharia, or permitting behavior that is forbidden by the sharia, such as adultery.[8]

Iran – illegal (death penalty)[7][8][9]
Egypt – illegal (death penalty)[9]
Pakistan – illegal (death penalty[9] since 2007)
United Arab Emirates – illegal (death penalty)[10]
Somalia – illegal (death penalty)[11]
Afghanistan – illegal (death penalty, although the U.S. and other coalition members have put pressure that has prevented recent executions[12][13])
Saudi Arabia – illegal (death penalty, although there have been no recently reported executions)[9][14]
Sudan – illegal (death penalty, although there have only been recent reports of torture, and not of execution[15] [16])
Qatar – illegal (death penalty)[17]
Yemen – illegal (death penalty)[17]
Malaysia – illegal in five of 13 states (fine, imprisonment, and flogging)[18][19]
Mauritania – illegal (death penalty)[citation needed]
Syria – possibly illegal (death penalty) although there is evidence to the contrary[20]
Morocco – illegal to proselytise conversion (15 years jail, flogging)[21]
Jordan – possibly illegal (fine, jail, child custody loss, marriage annulment) although officials claim otherwise, convictions are recorded for apostasy

#224 Saorsa

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:20 PM

Egypt must really like Hillary.

They were throwing shoes at her in celebration as she arrived.

I guess she reminded them of Imelda Marcos, eh?

#225 TMSAIL

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:23 PM

Egypt must really like Hillary.

They were throwing shoes at her in celebration as she arrived.

I guess she reminded them of Imelda Marcos, eh?

and rotten tomatoes while chanting "MONICA" Damn that vast right wing conspiracy

#226 Dog

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:36 PM

"I think that we've restored America's standing in the world." - Barack Obama

#227 Mohammed Bin Lyin

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:32 AM



I think if you bothered to read, I DID give him a level of respect. However, Knowledge doesn't gloss over apparent hatred. He's just a more educated and better read Gaytor, who hates jews with about as much fervor as Godfrey seems to hate muslims. As I said, it might be easier if he could explain his agenda in his own words and put it into context better.


I dont hate muslims it is the Islamic ideology i dislike, do you understand the difference between the 2 or do i have to explain it?

Do people need a reason to oppose any beliefs that kill people in 2012 for apostasy-blasphemy-adultery-homosexuality-witchcraft or is it not ok to speak out about these barbaric acts?


Ok, fair enough. I would ask though, because I honestly don't know the koran that well.... that because moderate practictioners of Islam don't seem to buy into the apostasy-blasphemy-adultery-homosexuality-witchcraft stuff anymore than Christians buy into or practice all the old testament stuff like child sacrifice, smite your enemies, etc in the bible - do you still oppose their beliefs or practice of the religion? Or are you just opposing the acts of the fundamentalists who interpret the koran a bit too literally?



As TMSAIL post pointed out there is not much in the Quran about apostasy-stoning-prayer yet it claims to be perfected in sura 5:3.
The muslims couldnt add verses to the Quran that would be considered corrupting the true word of allah and to this day Islam prides itself on the fact the Quran has never been corrupted by humans unlike the bible/torah.
They had to come up with something so you have the hadith which is sayings of the pedo prophet that were memorised and passed down like a series of chinese whispers over a 200+ year period before it was made into a book.

The stoning verses and apostasy verses are found in the hadith.
http://www.islamqa.c...ef/811/apostasy
al Bukhari is the hadith the sunni/salafi side follow which differs from the al kafi that the shia use, the doctrinal differences do not come from the Quran they come from books that were written much later.

The prophet said:
If a muslim discards his religion, kill him
http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/56/226



As for stoning did they copy it from the jews or was it a case of monkey see monkey do?,there is nothing in the Quran about stoning because Mo's child bride Aisha's pet goat ate that verse, muslims will still claim the Quran has never been corrupted

During the pre Islamic period of ignorance i saw a she monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys, they were all stoning it because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse, i too stoned it along with them
http://www.sunnah.com/urn/35940



Go read sahih al bukhari if you want to understand Mohammad's Islam, the best hardback copy is by Muhsin Khan others tend to leave out some verses, sunnah.com has free online versions.

Article 18 of the UDHR allows people to be delusional from religion it is a human right, it also guarantees my freedom to call bullshit on religion.

Do you think the Islamic regime in Iran takes the Quran literally?
Political Islam should be fought , if you oppose the Islamic regime in Iran you are declared an enemy of god and executed, fascists dont tolerate critics and Islamofascism executes critics.

What happens if you burn a bible in front of christians? How did the Islamic world react over a non burning of the Quran by a florida pastor?




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