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Headstay Length


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#1 mcg00

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 10:42 PM

I'm working with a local marina and Bob from Neil Pryde to determine the correct length for the FT 10M forestay. Class rules list the total length at 12.5 to 12.65 meters from eye to eye, with or without a furler. Does anyone have the length measurements for the forestay cable used with a furler? Alternatively, has anyone convert a non-furler forestay to accommodated a furler? If yes, how much did you take off the the original forestay cable?


This is the last issue I need to address before sailing #81.

#2 Ship o' Fools

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:46 AM

If it were me, I would not be installing the OEM Facnor furler. The problems with the furler I think have been previously mentioned but include that fact that the furler was not originally designed for this use and when it is windy, the top of the jib will unfurl. The other problem I found was that the diameter of the pin that attaches the furler to bow is smaller that the hole in the tang which results in making the hole in the tang oval over time. If you want a furler, you should opt for the class approved alternatives which includes a Harken furler with a foil which solves the problem with the top of the jib unfurling when it is windy. Another alternative is to do away with the furler entirely and have a head foil. There are some pictures on this forum posted by Snapper of his setup, including a deck fitting for the jib tack.

#3 akasideshow

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:48 AM

If it were me, I would not be installing the OEM Facnor furler. The problems with the furler I think have been previously mentioned but include that fact that the furler was not originally designed for this use and when it is windy, the top of the jib will unfurl. The other problem I found was that the diameter of the pin that attaches the furler to bow is smaller that the hole in the tang which results in making the hole in the tang oval over time. If you want a furler, you should opt for the class approved alternatives which includes a Harken furler with a foil which solves the problem with the top of the jib unfurling when it is windy. Another alternative is to do away with the furler entirely and have a head foil. There are some pictures on this forum posted by Snapper of his setup, including a deck fitting for the jib tack.


not forgetting either that having no furler means you can install a turnbuckle on the forestay, which is class approved!, makes retuning a breeze

#4 mcg00

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:21 AM

Last night we made some measurements and came up with 12.508 meters from mast eye to bow eye. That fits with class rules so will go ahead and make the necessary changes this morning. Thanks for the feedback.

#5 Ship o' Fools

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:02 PM

I guess there are three ways to set the boat up (with variations of each). One is to just assemble the OEM parts which will lead to disappointment, including halyards losing tension, line stretch, lee helm, OEM rudder wobbling the the cassette, motor door difficulties, etc... - which have been discussed at length already. The second is to tinker with the boat and rig which can be an expensive trial and error methodology, risks running afoul of class rules, and is time consuming - but seemed to work well for Lowell North, if you are in that league. And the third it to talk to owners who already have their boats sorted and copy their set up as a base line. Most owners are very open to discussing how they set up the boat but you have to ask. The class has never been proactive about having a source for new owners to refer to for getting the boat sorted. My suggestion is to find an owner close to you that has some good race results and ask for advice and recommendations. I think it is advisable to take advantage of a lot of work and thought put into the boat by people who have experience with the boat.

#6 TigerinCT

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:07 AM

I guess there are three ways to set the boat up (with variations of each). One is to just assemble the OEM parts which will lead to disappointment, including halyards losing tension, line stretch, lee helm, OEM rudder wobbling the the cassette, motor door difficulties, etc... - which have been discussed at length already. The second is to tinker with the boat and rig which can be an expensive trial and error methodology, risks running afoul of class rules, and is time consuming - but seemed to work well for Lowell North, if you are in that league. And the third it to talk to owners who already have their boats sorted and copy their set up as a base line. Most owners are very open to discussing how they set up the boat but you have to ask. The class has never been proactive about having a source for new owners to refer to for getting the boat sorted. My suggestion is to find an owner close to you that has some good race results and ask for advice and recommendations. I think it is advisable to take advantage of a lot of work and thought put into the boat by people who have experience with the boat.


Ship - good point about sharing. I'm 3 miles from MCG and having been passing him as much info as I have. That said, there is a huge bit of knowledge out there that speeds the learning curve, and it's not shared effectively. I don't know how to do it around the world - but it would be great for the class to have a way to do that. Anyone have ideas on how to share without raising the trolls and A-grade douche's?

#7 Bryce

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:35 AM

Last night we made some measurements and came up with 12.508 meters from mast eye to bow eye. That fits with class rules so will go ahead and make the necessary changes this morning. Thanks for the feedback.


We removed our furler and added a calibrated turnbuckle on AUS66. I made a bit of mistake in measuring the old set up's length (which we were happy with)and had the new forestay made a tad short. We can't get to the max 12,650 allowed even with the turnbuckle all the way out. But no matter, we are not slow and in fact have settled on the turnbuckle off the end by 25mm for base setting. That makes our forestay approx 12,600 and she's pretty happy with that (tracks straight - little/no weather helm - original rudder).

Concur with others on the Facnor furler being pretty orrid. If you have to have a furler then look to the Harken. But keep in mind that this means living with vertical battens in the jib. Compromising the jib shape and trimming for the 'benefit' of furling doesn't seem a super exchange. Not sure what sort of racing your intending but for around the cans stuff, hanks are just fine. Jib drops quickly (as evidence by screams to slow down from bow)and it would be rare day we'd consider chaging jibs uphill anyway.

Enjoy!

#8 owlslick

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 04:03 PM

why worry about headstay length and furlers at this point in time... all of the rig measures in...  you are new to the class... get out and sail the boat...this is not your first rodeo... make adjustments as needed and see where they take you... the way you like to sail the boat and the sails you have should tell you what you need...  record the good settings,  throw away the settings that don't work...  there is no  substitute for time on the water...  it's all new to you, get to know what you have first... all the other stuff  means little at this time...there is a correct way, a wrong way and what works best for you...  only then you will see your plan come together...

#9 Ship o' Fools

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 04:41 PM

why worry about headstay length and furlers at this point in time... all of the rig measures in... you are new to the class... get out and sail the boat...this is not your first rodeo... make adjustments as needed and see where they take you... the way you like to sail the boat and the sails you have should tell you what you need... record the good settings, throw away the settings that don't work... there is no substitute for time on the water... it's all new to you, get to know what you have first... all the other stuff means little at this time...there is a correct way, a wrong way and what works best for you... only then you will see your plan come together...


I disagree. There are a few easy things that can be done now that will save you money and make the first sail more enjoyable. There are things like moving the mast base plate forward to the bulkhead to get more mast rake - which if done now will avoid having to unstep and then step the mast again to do it later. Also, if you have to make up a forestay which the OP says he has to do (Was the OEM forestay missing?), might as well make an informed decision as opposed to making a forestay for the facnor furler and then having to make another forestay if you decide to ditch the furler. Sorting out the main halyard now before the mast is stepped also makes more sense, especially if you go the direction of 2:1.

I have tried to pass on what I think I would have like to have known before my first sail.

I hope you enjoy the boat - which I am sure you will.

#10 Clewless

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 02:24 PM

There is a wealth of knowledge in these forums -- just use the search function. There are also a few FT10 experts at most of the big sail lofts, most are quite helpful and frequent these pages.
[/quote]

Ship - good point about sharing. I'm 3 miles from MCG and having been passing him as much info as I have. That said, there is a huge bit of knowledge out there that speeds the learning curve, and it's not shared effectively. I don't know how to do it around the world - but it would be great for the class to have a way to do that. Anyone have ideas on how to share without raising the trolls and A-grade douche's?
[/quote]

#11 Jetsam

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:27 AM


I guess there are three ways to set the boat up (with variations of each). One is to just assemble the OEM parts which will lead to disappointment, including halyards losing tension, line stretch, lee helm, OEM rudder wobbling the the cassette, motor door difficulties, etc... - which have been discussed at length already. The second is to tinker with the boat and rig which can be an expensive trial and error methodology, risks running afoul of class rules, and is time consuming - but seemed to work well for Lowell North, if you are in that league. And the third it to talk to owners who already have their boats sorted and copy their set up as a base line. Most owners are very open to discussing how they set up the boat but you have to ask. The class has never been proactive about having a source for new owners to refer to for getting the boat sorted. My suggestion is to find an owner close to you that has some good race results and ask for advice and recommendations. I think it is advisable to take advantage of a lot of work and thought put into the boat by people who have experience with the boat.


Ship - good point about sharing. I'm 3 miles from MCG and having been passing him as much info as I have. That said, there is a huge bit of knowledge out there that speeds the learning curve, and it's not shared effectively. I don't know how to do it around the world - but it would be great for the class to have a way to do that. Anyone have ideas on how to share without raising the trolls and A-grade douche's?


Seems like a password protected website for owners would accomplish that fairly easily..

#12 mcg00

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:44 AM

We made it out for the first sail yesterday afternoon / evening and the boat performed well. We cut ~8 inches off the forestay and mounted in the second hole from the bottom in the furler. We measure in at 12.52 in length and used the jib that came with the boat. We also move the mast as far forward as we could before tuning the rigging.

It's great having a few knowledgable guys in my contact list and I've been asking lots of questions. Now that we are on the water, there will be a few more but we're definitely starting to get a feel for the boat.

Thank you, everyone, for the feedback. I've added the helpful bits to our notes.




#13 StayinStrewn

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:03 AM

nice Mark, see ya out there soon from the deck of Red Stripe!




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