55 replies to this topic

[SHNOOL]

I just upgraded from an older (1989) Capri 22 wing keel, to a 1982 Capri 25. I wanted more "go fast" and was hoping to actually race in our "friendly" portsmouth races. For whatever reason (logical or not) I upgraded and it only cost me $300 more and round trip cost of gas of driving 1100 miles (yep I am daft)... My ultimate goal is to be competitive with the S2s, J22, and J24s that we have in our mixed fleet. I am not expecting a Capri 25 to be faster than an S2 7.9, or J22, or J24, but am hoping to at least be in the ball park with them.

Anyway, new to racing, and more importantly new to a masthead rig. The boat is ragged out for sure. Bottom is ablative (god knows why), and needs redone, and the sails are original, and blown out (part of why it was so cheap). I checked the compression post, the bilges, and honestly the structure of the boat is sound. Rigging was redone recently (last 2 years) and hasn't been "stressed" much yet (as it had only been sailed/rigged twice in that time). Checking chainplates and overall structure the boat is good, but not "new." The bulkheads are solid as a rock and recently varnished and resealed (it's been sitting on the hard for probably 7 years, and spend only about 3 months in those 7 years in water).

I've managed to get the boat launched and in a slip, and I have been out on the water 3 times so far, in 8-10 knots (single handed), and 12-15 knots (single handed - reefed main, and 130). Finally I sailed it (can you call this sailing) in 0-3 knots of wind with the 155 up. I haven't had crew yet, so have not had a chance to fly the spin. Was thinking tiller-pilot and light winds 3-5 to see if I can set spin myself.

The sail inventory is 2 mains (both ragged out, 1 original dacron, 2nd upgraded dacron cut deeper and better shape but again ragged, 155 mylar Genoa which I patched with tape in 2 places (non structural) that was barely used was ripped from gulp, folding, a 150 dacron heavy number 2 that looks very decent but is still old, and a 130 heavy, that has - gulp - reef points on it, and a nice shape tri-radial that hasn't seen the light of day in years I bet.

Can anyone give me an idiots guide of what's different in the masthead versus the fractional I had before, rigging/tune/sail shape/sail reduction? There were some here saying about the Capri 25 as an entry/gateway to PHRF racing (which who knows might have been tongue in cheek), so I hope to draw on some of that expertise. What else should I look at while I prepping it for next year?

I know I am sailing this boat REALLY ugly right now, but this is what I have (for now). I am familiar with fairing a keel, and sanding a bottom, resealing and doing VC-17m (did I mention I am freshwater?), just didn't have the luxury of time (or money) this year to do it (short sailing season and would rather the sail time than the extra speed right now). Come fall though, all bets are off. I hope to have a good understanding of what makes this boat tick by then, figured I could draw on some experts here to help kick start my learning.

Oh, and the boat was awlgripped probably 20 years ago, white over baby blue. So I am likely going to get a crash course in roll&tip. Come Christmas I should have the cash for 2 decent sails, was thinking a respectable maybe loose foot main, and a decent 155 reinforced mylar genoa (since most of my sailing is in light air - I have a max budget, so I can't buy 2 $10k sails, since I only have $6k in the boat, but $4-5k for 2 sails might be tolerable). Then can replace others as I get the cash.

Oh, and I'll say it to myself "f&ck off newb."

[DoRag]

You're wasting your time.

Just set the boat on fire and let it drift out into the current. You'll be much, much happier.

[tq2000]

I just upgraded from an older (1989) Capri 22 wing keel, to a 1982 Capri 25. I wanted more "go fast" and was hoping to actually race in our "friendly" portsmouth races. For whatever reason (logical or not) I upgraded and it only cost me $300 more and round trip cost of gas of driving 1100 miles (yep I am daft)... My ultimate goal is to be competitive with the S2s, J22, and J24s that we have in our mixed fleet. I am not expecting a Capri 25 to be faster than an S2 7.9, or J22, or J24, but am hoping to at least be in the ball park with them.

Anyway, new to racing, and more importantly new to a masthead rig. The boat is ragged out for sure. Bottom is ablative (god knows why), and needs redone, and the sails are original, and blown out (part of why it was so cheap). I checked the compression post, the bilges, and honestly the structure of the boat is sound. Rigging was redone recently (last 2 years) and hasn't been "stressed" much yet (as it had only been sailed/rigged twice in that time). Checking chainplates and overall structure the boat is good, but not "new." The bulkheads are solid as a rock and recently varnished and resealed (it's been sitting on the hard for probably 7 years, and spend only about 3 months in those 7 years in water).

I've managed to get the boat launched and in a slip, and I have been out on the water 3 times so far, in 8-10 knots (single handed), and 12-15 knots (single handed - reefed main, and 130). Finally I sailed it (can you call this sailing) in 0-3 knots of wind with the 155 up. I haven't had crew yet, so have not had a chance to fly the spin. Was thinking tiller-pilot and light winds 3-5 to see if I can set spin myself.

The sail inventory is 2 mains (both ragged out, 1 original dacron, 2nd upgraded dacron cut deeper and better shape but again ragged, 155 mylar Genoa which I patched with tape in 2 places (non structural) that was barely used was ripped from gulp, folding, a 150 dacron heavy number 2 that looks very decent but is still old, and a 130 heavy, that has - gulp - reef points on it, and a nice shape tri-radial that hasn't seen the light of day in years I bet.

Can anyone give me an idiots guide of what's different in the masthead versus the fractional I had before, rigging/tune/sail shape/sail reduction? There were some here saying about the Capri 25 as an entry/gateway to PHRF racing (which who knows might have been tongue in cheek), so I hope to draw on some of that expertise. What else should I look at while I prepping it for next year?

I know I am sailing this boat REALLY ugly right now, but this is what I have (for now). I am familiar with fairing a keel, and sanding a bottom, resealing and doing VC-17m (did I mention I am freshwater?), just didn't have the luxury of time (or money) this year to do it (short sailing season and would rather the sail time than the extra speed right now). Come fall though, all bets are off. I hope to have a good understanding of what makes this boat tick by then, figured I could draw on some experts here to help kick start my learning.

Oh, and the boat was awlgripped probably 20 years ago, white over baby blue. So I am likely going to get a crash course in roll&tip. Come Christmas I should have the cash for 2 decent sails, was thinking a respectable maybe loose foot main, and a decent 155 reinforced mylar genoa (since most of my sailing is in light air - I have a max budget, so I can't buy 2 $10k sails, since I only have $6k in the boat, but $4-5k for 2 sails might be tolerable). Then can replace others as I get the cash.

Oh, and I'll say it to myself "f&ck off newb."

You at Ironwood? PM me, I will go out with you sometime and we can see if we can't get you up at the front. Old sails will not kill you up there as bad as you imagine they might, but let's take a look at what you have.

[Tejano]

You're wasting your time.

Just set the boat on fire and let it drift out into the current. You'll be much, much happier.

Second DoRag on this recommendation. Having owned both the Capri 25 and J22, you bought the wrong boat fella. You're right about one thing...you'll never beat any of them. Insure it and torch it. Do it right the next time, and get some other than a Frank Butler design.

[tq2000]

You're wasting your time.

Just set the boat on fire and let it drift out into the current. You'll be much, much happier.

Second DoRag on this recommendation. Having owned both the Capri 25 and J22, you bought the wrong boat fella. You're right about one thing...you'll never beat any of them. Insure it and torch it. Do it right the next time, and get some other than a Frank Butler design.

It sounds like he is sailing on the same lake I am, in which case he should be able to hang at the front of the pack. The Portsmouth numbers look more favorable than the phrf numbers for that boat as well.

[crash]

Rig tune not all that different. Start with making sure the top of the mast is in the middle of the boat. Uppers should be tight enough that the leward one is not tensioned, but not floppy around when sailing to windward in around 12 to 15. Lowers should be tight enough so that the middle of the mast doesn't sag off to leeward, but no tighter than that. I'd start with 4 or so inches of rake (put a weight on the main halyard and use like a plumb bob) measured from the base of the mast, and then adjust based on how you point/how much helm you have going upwind in the same 12-15. Sail reductions typically go with reducing headsails first while flattening main as much as possible down to the # 3. Then reefing the main if required. Bagged out mains make that harder to follow, so you'll need to see if you can get enough backstay, cunningham, and outhaul on to board out the main. If you find you're getting too much weather helm and rounding up..even with the main flatten as much as possible, then you might have to reef sooner. Generally, the cross over point is somewhere around 15-17 kts when you'll need to get rid of the 155% and go to the #3. Then somewhere around 20-22, when you need to go to the reef. Those numbers will be lower if you don't have a full crew on the rail, or the sails are bagged out.

Other areas to start with are making sure all the deck gear is well lubed and turns/spins/slides and/or grips/jams/cleats the way its supposed to. Then start looking at how fair all the leads are and are the lead to places the crew can easily reach and adjust, then look at if those controls are easy to adjust/have enough power. Things that are hard to adjust don't get adjust as often as they should. Things that can't be easily reached don't either. Follow that up with making sure the bottom is smooth, and the paint on it is smooth and kept clean.

Take tq2000 or someone else similar up on their offer. Get an experienced racer (they guy who's winning all the races in your fleet/division) to come look at the boat and help you some. Also finding, keeping, training crew is critical. You'll want at least one guy with racing experience, and you'll need a crew list 2-3 times longer then teh number of spots you have to make sure you can get the 4 or 5 folks out that you need to race...

Good luck, stick to it. Set reasonable and realistic goals. And most important, remember to have fun.

[crash]

You're wasting your time.

Just set the boat on fire and let it drift out into the current. You'll be much, much happier.

Second DoRag on this recommendation. Having owned both the Capri 25 and J22, you bought the wrong boat fella. You're right about one thing...you'll never beat any of them. Insure it and torch it. Do it right the next time, and get some other than a Frank Butler design.

"Welcome to racing...you're boat sucks"....no freaking wonder participation is dropping and no new folks are joining the sport.

SHNOOL, don't listen to guys like this. I know guys that have done just fine with Capri 25s, and yes, they can beat any of the boats listed...

[Steam Flyer]

Rig tune not all that different. Start with making sure the top of the mast is in the middle of the boat. ... ...Sail reductions typically go with reducing headsails first while flattening main as much as possible down to the # 3. Then reefing the main if required. Bagged out mains make that harder to follow... ...

Other areas to start with are making sure all the deck gear is well lubed and turns/spins/slides and/or grips/jams/cleats the way its supposed to. Then start looking at how fair all the leads are ... ... Follow that up with making sure the bottom is smooth, and the paint on it is smooth and kept clean.

Take tq2000 or someone else similar up on their offer. Get an experienced racer (they guy who's winning all the races in your fleet/division) to come look at the boat and help you some. Also finding, keeping, training crew is critical...

Good luck, stick to it. Set reasonable and realistic goals. And most important, remember to have fun.

Good advice except I'd strongly suggest investing in sails before trying to learn how to compensate for blown-out shitty sails. The Capri 25 is a fairly common boat, you should be able to find a good set. 1st-tier racing sails are spendy and you might be 99% as well off with 2nd tier sails, I'd recommend Fx. Obviously getting the mast tune & running rig set up properly (as "crash" suggests) is key to getting good performance... fancy new sails will improve a boat that has it's mast all crooked, but still won't get it around the course the way it should go.

My advice would be to start developing crew instead of singlehanding. Having fun with the boat is good but you're not learning anything useful and may be developing habits that will hurt later.

You're wasting your time.

Just set the boat on fire and let it drift out into the current. You'll be much, much happier.

Second DoRag on this recommendation. Having owned both the Capri 25 and J22, you bought the wrong boat fella. You're right about one thing...you'll never beat any of them. Insure it and torch it. Do it right the next time, and get some other than a Frank Butler design.

"Welcome to racing...you're boat sucks"....no freaking wonder participation is dropping and no new folks are joining the sport.

SHNOOL, don't listen to guys like this. I know guys that have done just fine with Capri 25s, and yes, they can beat any of the boats listed...

Yep

A masthead chute is a big advantage in ligh air, and you'll need railmeat to beat J-22s in heavy air it can certainly be done because I've done it.

FB- Doug

[SHNOOL]

Actually I know not to spend my way out onto the top tier sails (couldn't afford to anyway, but FX wasn't on my list, it is now). I am at best a twice a week sailor, and know again I am up against guys who have been doing this for years, I don't expect to win, but I want to give it my best shot.

First, I didn't JUST buy the boat for speed... it was a huge factor, but if I wanted speed, and money was no object ANY number of boats would have been better. DUH! But even used starter boats that are competitive (S2 7.9 for example) are overpriced for what they are, and out of my range, so PRICE was the biggest factor. Being able to use it for the family also a factor. Speed was probably my 3rd... but that's still higher up on the list than the swim ladder was when I bought the darned Capri 22!

Second, I can live with "Your boat sux buy a Viper" kind of useless talk, my skin's thicker than that. DoRag? I feel welcomed by your inability to offer a constructive suggestion... I am almost touched, figured you'd have bigger fish to trash.

TQ, Crash, Steam thanks for giving it a whirl. PMed ya TQ

[tq2000]

Actually I know not to spend my way out onto the top tier sails (couldn't afford to anyway, but FX wasn't on my list, it is now). I am at best a twice a week sailor, and know again I am up against guys who have been doing this for years, I don't expect to win, but I want to give it my best shot.

First, I didn't JUST buy the boat for speed... it was a huge factor, but if I wanted speed, and money was no object ANY number of boats would have been better. DUH! But even used starter boats that are competitive (S2 7.9 for example) are overpriced for what they are, and out of my range, so PRICE was the biggest factor. Being able to use it for the family also a factor. Speed was probably my 3rd... but that's still higher up on the list than the swim ladder was when I bought the darned Capri 22!

Second, I can live with "Your boat sux buy a Viper" kind of useless talk, my skin's thicker than that. DoRag? I feel welcomed by your inability to offer a constructive suggestion... I am almost touched, figured you'd have bigger fish to trash.

TQ, Crash, Steam thanks for giving it a whirl. PMed ya TQ

Got it and answered, and you can definitely win a few races up there.

[movable ballast]

I have been told the Capri 25 sails much it's bigger sister the Capri 30. I have been racing my Capri 30 for about 6 months and are slowly coming up to speed. My initial takeaways are:

* Sail it as flat as you can
* Don't over sheet the main, Batten #3 slight hook to windward in lightish air, begin to twist off in anything over 8.
* Don't overtrim the #1 (seeing a trand here)the boat won't point with a fractional rig boat so don't try... Foot off a degree or two and go fast. Start twisting the #1 off earlier that you think.

Basically don't sail the boat sideways (strapped) and you should keep up with all the boats mentioned. You have a bigger kite that the J24 so you should be able to sail lower in the same breeze and can make up a lot of ground.

New to racing,

* don't think you have to fight for the most favored end. Let the screamers do that and find a nice spot in the middle of the line with clear air.
* don't get into tacking duels with fractional or blade type boats they can tack way faster than you and come to speed earlier. Tack to go the right direction not to sit on someone.
* Get a rule book, read it, understand it.
* Lastly try to stay out of trouble, earn the respect of your competitors and you will enjoy the experience more.

Hope this helps.

MB

[j24vt]

The best boat to try to beat a J24 in is another J24. Before you spend a penny updating the Capri 25, total up all the work that needs to be done to the boat. If you are looking at around 5K of work, consider donating the Capri 25 to a 501c3 sailing center and buying a J24. There are competitive Club racing level J24s to be had with a good trailer in the 5K range if you look...

Find a couple of friends who are psyched to sail every week and you can all learn to race together.

[Me too]

I have a Capri 25, previous boats C&C 37, J 27,J 22 hobi 18. That said,I love the Capri 25. Easy to race, comfortable and very affordable. Don't believe you can't win in PHRF. Last six twilight races I have 5 1st. Not bragging, its just twilight races but the boat does extremely well in light air.

[tq2000]

I have a Capri 25, previous boats C&C 37, J 27,J 22 hobi 18. That said,I love the Capri 25. Easy to race, comfortable and very affordable. Don't believe you can't win in PHRF. Last six twilight races I have 5 1st. Not bragging, its just twilight races but the boat does extremely well in light air.

avg wind during avg race < 5 knots. he can definitely win some races with it here.

[VwaP]

[jackdaw]

Post questions re the Capri 25 at the Wayzata Yacht Club Capri 25 mini-site. We have like 20 of the things racing OD. Yea it's a FB design and most of the fleet look like they have been thru WWII, but those guys know how to wring every ounce out of these suckers.

http://www.wyc.org/c25/HomeNews.aspx

[DoRag]

You're wasting your time.

Just set the boat on fire and let it drift out into the current. You'll be much, much happier.

Second DoRag on this recommendation. Having owned both the Capri 25 and J22, you bought the wrong boat fella. You're right about one thing...you'll never beat any of them. Insure it and torch it. Do it right the next time, and get some other than a Frank Butler design.

"Welcome to racing...you're boat sucks"....no freaking wonder participation is dropping and no new folks are joining the sport.

SHNOOL, don't listen to guys like this. I know guys that have done just fine with Capri 25s, and yes, they can beat any of the boats listed...

Yeah, perhaps you should listen to this tool who wrote for all to see: "you're boat sucks."

Do you know the difference between "your" and "you're?"

Apparently you don't. Just why is that?

Now, if you are actually that dumb, why should anyone ever listen to your (not "you're") opinion on anything?

WTF?

[DoRag]

I have a Capri 25, previous boats C&C 37, J 27,J 22 hobi 18. That said,I love the Capri 25. Easy to race, comfortable and very affordable. Don't believe you can't win in PHRF. Last six twilight races I have 5 1st. Not bragging, its just twilight races but the boat does extremely well in light air.

Not bragging?

Sure sounds like it.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king......

[Mahogany Reef]

Post questions re the Capri 25 at the Wayzata Yacht Club Capri 25 mini-site. We have like 20 of the things racing OD. Yea it's a FB design and most of them look like they have been thru WWII, but theys guys know how to wring every ounce out of these suckers.

http://www.wyc.org/c25/HomeNews.aspx

I am glad I read the whole thread before answering. I second this, the guys from Wayzata are good and I know you could get some answers... if you need some individuals to contact, message me, I may be able to find the right guys to talk to.

We sail an S2 7.9 out there. It may be frustrating to try to keep up with the J24 and S2, but if your rating (not sure of portsmouth for the boats) is ok, you may correct over some. From what I understand, the boat needs some skillful handling to make it go...

[tq2000]

You're wasting your time.

Just set the boat on fire and let it drift out into the current. You'll be much, much happier.

Second DoRag on this recommendation. Having owned both the Capri 25 and J22, you bought the wrong boat fella. You're right about one thing...you'll never beat any of them. Insure it and torch it. Do it right the next time, and get some other than a Frank Butler design.

"Welcome to racing...you're boat sucks"....no freaking wonder participation is dropping and no new folks are joining the sport.

SHNOOL, don't listen to guys like this. I know guys that have done just fine with Capri 25s, and yes, they can beat any of the boats listed...

Yeah, perhaps you should listen to this tool who wrote for all to see: "you're boat sucks."

Do you know the difference between "your" and "you're?"

Apparently you don't. Just why is that?

Now, if you are actually that dumb, why should anyone ever listen to your (not "you're") opinion on anything?

WTF?

You have no idea of where he is racing or who he is racing against, and you are giving phenomenally bad advice. I am sure you thought you were being clever and brash when you first replied, but really you were just being an asshat.

[Me too]

Should mention to be careful with that tiller. The rudder is heavily balanced and will stop the boat if turned too sharply. When tacking don't push the tiller past the edge of the leward seat. On the other hand, if you need to do a 720, the boat will spin like a top.

[jackdaw]

Should mention to be careful with that tiller. The rudder is heavily balanced and will stop the boat if turned too sharply. When tacking don't push the tiller past the edge of the leward seat. On the other hand, if you need to do a 720, the boat will spin like a top.

... or a 360 to clear the baffles (er.. milfoil). Crazy Ivan!

[SHNOOL]

Me too, noted the tiller thing already, saw it on wyc.org by another I believe... Can tell there is more surface area below water, boat has power steering compared to the 22, and it's light too, so I could easily see dragging rudder instead of steering.

[Me too]

I guess my competition is not as good as I thought. The S2 kicks my ass in 10+ knots, less than 8 knots they will need a bit of luck.

[SemiSalt]

I've done a lot of racing in boats that no self-respecting racing sailor would choose, including a Capri 22 WK. Don't let the purists put you off. [If they had brains, they'd understand that "spend a lot of money" is not helpful advice for the guy who just told you he doesn't have any.]

As noted above, the Capri 25 is most competitive in light air. That's convenient because those old sails won't hurt you so much in light air. In heavy air, you may find yourself struggling with boat control issues while everyone else sails away. At least, that's what happened to me. As far as specific trim issues, I'd be looking for less twist in the main.

I would sail the boat for a season without spending any money you don't absolutely have to. Learn what you can, and then set your priorities.

[View from the back]

You're wasting your time.

Just set the boat on fire and let it drift out into the current. You'll be much, much happier.

Second DoRag on this recommendation. Having owned both the Capri 25 and J22, you bought the wrong boat fella. You're right about one thing...you'll never beat any of them. Insure it and torch it. Do it right the next time, and get some other than a Frank Butler design.

"Welcome to racing...you're boat sucks"....no freaking wonder participation is dropping and no new folks are joining the sport.

SHNOOL, don't listen to guys like this. I know guys that have done just fine with Capri 25s, and yes, they can beat any of the boats listed...

If a Capri 25 can beat anyone, it's beacuse they were distracted and laughing too much at anyone that would actually be associatede with a Capri 25. Simple.

Friends don't let friends buy boats like that. Kinda like driving a Boxster and thinking you were driving a Porshe...

DoRag: First of all, I have a Capri 25 in Long Beach. Love the boat.... own it with two friends, dry sail it, its affordable, its comfortable, its great for Twilights and the occasional weekend regatta for PHRF (yes, I know, PHRF sucks), its a very low maintenance boat.... I could go on and on.

Second of all, DoRag.... you're a raging, fucking asshole! Its raging, fucking assholes like you that keeps the sport of sailboat racing to a minimum. Sure, I love J22's. They're also a whole lot more money than the Capri 25. I'd have also loved to buy a Moore 24 or a Santa Cruz 27... both were a whole lot more money than the Capri 25.

And finally, DoRag, have I mentioned that you're a complete tool, and that, my guess, is that you don't even own a fucking boat! My guess is that you crew on other people's boats, wear all their faggot looking crew shirts, and yet, actually, you couldn't drive a boat around the course if your fucking life depended on it.

Have I covered it all completely?

[DoRag]

You're wasting your time.

Just set the boat on fire and let it drift out into the current. You'll be much, much happier.

Second DoRag on this recommendation. Having owned both the Capri 25 and J22, you bought the wrong boat fella. You're right about one thing...you'll never beat any of them. Insure it and torch it. Do it right the next time, and get some other than a Frank Butler design.

"Welcome to racing...you're boat sucks"....no freaking wonder participation is dropping and no new folks are joining the sport.

SHNOOL, don't listen to guys like this. I know guys that have done just fine with Capri 25s, and yes, they can beat any of the boats listed...

Yeah, perhaps you should listen to this tool who wrote for all to see: "you're boat sucks."

Do you know the difference between "your" and "you're?"

Apparently you don't. Just why is that?

Now, if you are actually that dumb, why should anyone ever listen to your (not "you're") opinion on anything?

WTF?

You have no idea of where he is racing or who he is racing against, and you are giving phenomenally bad advice. I am sure you thought you were being clever and brash when you first replied, but really you were just being an asshat.

Doesn't matter. The only way a Capri 25 can win is because all the competition is laughing to hard too properly sail their boats and they all sail off the end of the world.

Owning a Capri 25 is like owning a Boxster, meaning you think you own a Porsche but no one else does...

[Me too]

Good advice from semisalt. One more thing about the Capri 25, the boat needs speed before it will point. Always foot off before trying to point or you will go sideways. I know this is true with all boats but even more so with this particular design.

[DoRag]

Good advice from semisalt. One more thing about the Capri 25, the boat needs speed before it will point. Always foot off before trying to point or you will go sideways. I know this is true with all boats but even more so with this particular design.

Ah, yet another blinding glimpse of the obvious!!!!

[Mahogany Reef]

Good advice from semisalt. One more thing about the Capri 25, the boat needs speed before it will point. Always foot off before trying to point or you will go sideways. I know this is true with all boats but even more so with this particular design.

Ah, yet another blinding glimpse of the obvious!!!!

Fuck off Dorag. go talk about something you find interesting. The guy asked for some advice with a boat he owns. Your useless suggestions have been "burn it" and don't listen to anyone because the advice is too obvious.

At least these guys are all sailors in the US of A...

[Me too]

Dorag, Have you ever sailed a Capri 25 ? OP was interested in the Capri 25 and J 22. I happen to have sailed both and thought I might be able to help. Capri 25 isn't a rocketship but I think the OP already knew that.

Between the two I much prefer the Capri.

[crash]

You're wasting your time.

Just set the boat on fire and let it drift out into the current. You'll be much, much happier.

Second DoRag on this recommendation. Having owned both the Capri 25 and J22, you bought the wrong boat fella. You're right about one thing...you'll never beat any of them. Insure it and torch it. Do it right the next time, and get some other than a Frank Butler design.

"Welcome to racing...you're boat sucks"....no freaking wonder participation is dropping and no new folks are joining the sport.

SHNOOL, don't listen to guys like this. I know guys that have done just fine with Capri 25s, and yes, they can beat any of the boats listed...

Yeah, perhaps you should listen to this tool who wrote for all to see: "you're boat sucks."

Do you know the difference between "your" and "you're?"

Apparently you don't. Just why is that?

Now, if you are actually that dumb, why should anyone ever listen to your (not "you're") opinion on anything?

WTF?

Hey, WTF do you know, DoRag was right about something. I did make a grammatical error and typed you're where I should have properly used your.

DoRag. I do know the difference. I made a mistake. I'm also big enough to be able to admit it....

[DoRag]

[quote name='View from the back' timestamp='1340829437' post='3767071']
[quote name='DoRag' timestamp='1340827561' post='3767019']
[quote name='crash' timestamp='1340815540' post='3766719']
[quote name='Tejano' timestamp='1340813777' post='3766658']
[quote name='DoRag' timestamp='1340812558' post='3766620']
You're wasting your time.

Just set the boat on fire and let it drift out into the current. You'll be much, much happier.
[/quote]

Second DoRag on this recommendation. Having owned both the Capri 25 and J22, you bought the wrong boat fella. You're right about one thing...you'll never beat any of them. Insure it and torch it. Do it right the next time, and get some other than a Frank Butler design.
[/quote]

"Welcome to racing...you're boat sucks"....no freaking wonder participation is dropping and no new folks are joining the sport.

SHNOOL, don't listen to guys like this. I know guys that have done just fine with Capri 25s, and yes, they can beat any of the boats listed...
[/quote]

If a Capri 25 can beat anyone, it's beacuse they were distracted and laughing too much at anyone that would actually be associatede with a Capri 25. Simple.

Friends don't let friends buy boats like that. Kinda like driving a Boxster and thinking you were driving a Porshe...
[/quote]

DoRag: First of all, I have a Capri 25 in Long Beach. Love the boat.... own it with two friends, dry sail it, its affordable, its comfortable, its great for Twilights and the occasional weekend regatta for PHRF (yes, I know, PHRF sucks), its a very low maintenance boat.... I could go on and on.

Second of all, DoRag.... you're a raging, fucking asshole! Its raging, fucking assholes like you that keeps the sport of sailboat racing to a minimum. Sure, I love J22's. They're also a whole lot more money than the Capri 25. I'd have also loved to buy a Moore 24 or a Santa Cruz 27... both were a whole lot more money than the Capri 25.

And finally, DoRag, have I mentioned that you're a complete tool, and that, my guess, is that you don't even own a fucking boat! My guess is that you crew on other people's boats, wear all their faggot looking crew shirts, and yet, actually, you couldn't drive a boat around the course if your fucking life depended on it.

Have I covered it all completely?
[/quote]

No, you forgot that I also caused global warming.

[quote name='Mahogany Reef' timestamp='1340830835' post='3767113']
[quote name='DoRag' timestamp='1340830227' post='3767095']
[quote name='Me too' timestamp='1340830008' post='3767088']
Good advice from semisalt. One more thing about the Capri 25, the boat needs speed before it will point. Always foot off before trying to point or you will go sideways. I know this is true with all boats but even more so with this particular design.
[/quote]

Ah, yet another blinding glimpse of the obvious!!!!
[/quote]

Fuck off Dorag. go talk about something you find interesting. The guy asked for some advice with a boat he owns. Your useless suggestions have been "burn it" and don't listen to anyone because the advice is too obvious.

At least these guys are all sailors in the US of A...
[/quote]

I bet you voted for BHO.....

[Me too]

Shnool,

PM me and I might be able to help you set up the boat.

[DoRag]

Shnool,

PM me and I might be able to help you set up the boat.

So, now we have the blind leading the blind.

WTF?

[SHNOOL]

DoRag, I love your posts (so you think the Porsche Panamera is better the boxster right?).. Unlike these guys I find your instant knee jerk responses almost heartening, completely inconsequential of course, but it shows you care. Seriously, the rest of you, why bother with him?

Otherwise, others, the advice is sound and thanks. Will join over at WYC (may have already gotta look)... and post some questions there. Sounds like for much of the conditions for the area I sail, I can at least be competitive with lots of practice and some learning the quirks, and some elbow grease, and some upgrades. I am not looking at spending $10k on a $6k boat (but then my boat isn't an investment in anything other than for my own personal fun). It'll never be an S2/J killer - DUH... that's not what I asked. What I am after is being able to get close, sail to my rating, or better, maybe correct over those guys if I do it all right. Learn to work this POS to it's potential.

"Mee Too"... thnx

[DoRag]

DoRag, I love your posts (so you think the Porsche Panamera is better the boxster right?).. Unlike these guys I find your instant knee jerk responses almost heartening, completely inconsequential of course, but it shows you care. Seriously, the rest of you, why bother with him?

Otherwise, others, the advice is sound and thanks. Will join over at WYC (may have already gotta look)... and post some questions there. Sounds like for much of the conditions for the area I sail, I can at least be competitive with lots of practice and some learning the quirks, and some elbow grease, and some upgrades. I am not looking at spending $10k on a $6k boat (but then my boat isn't an investment in anything other than for my own personal fun). It'll never be an S2/J killer - DUH... that's not what I asked. What I am after is being able to get close, sail to my rating, or better, maybe correct over those guys if I do it all right. Learn to work this POS to it's potential.

"Mee Too"... thnx

Don't make the mistake of thinking that I care.

It really doesn't sound like you can afford the sport.

Perhaps you would be happier taking up bowling or going to monster truck events.

[Mahogany Reef]

Did not, nor will I ever vote for BHO...

[SemiSalt]

One other thought. Do not neglect your study of wind and current. If you are at a boatspeed disadvantage, you best chance for a win is to go the right way when everyone else goes the wrong way. Don't sail in crowds. Don't follow anyone, especially not your most important competition.

[Guitar]

A friend of mine owned a Capri 22 which I co-helmed for one of our most famous of races on the West Coast, the South Tower Race. Stockton to the Golden Gate and back, 140 miles.

We won our division and overall in 1995 over a pretty good fleet of boats. Not familiar with the 25 but I would say the designer did a good job on the 22.

[Guitar]

A friend of mine owned a Capri 22 which I co-helmed for one of our most famous of races on the West Coast, the South Tower Race. Stockton to the Golden Gate and back, 140 miles.

We won our division and overall in 1995 over a pretty good fleet of boats. Not familiar with the 25 but I would say the designer did a good job on the 22.

Oh yeah, can we just shorten DoRag to just Rag. He never seems to change it and it must be uncomfortable to wear it this long.

[VwaP]

Perhaps you would be happier taking up bowling or going to monster truck events.

[TimFordi550#87]

Try to avoid doing this



"We'll be right back, Jill!"

[Mahogany Reef]

Try to avoid doing this



"We'll be right back, Jill!"

Not the finest Capri 25 moment... Nice video though. Taken with a Horizon True self leveling camera mounting system. We use it on our boat for training and entertainment...

[DoRag]

Did not, nor will I ever vote for BHO...

Yes, you did.

And now I hope you enjoy your health care...

[TimFordi550#87]

I feel sort of bad about bringing that video back to the light of day. But props to the guy for ever putting it on U-toob. If it were me, that videotape would hit the trashcan real quick.

[Steam Flyer]

It really doesn't sound like you can afford the sport.

Perhaps you would be happier taking up bowling or going to monster truck events.

Still trying to fix up a date for your mom?

DSK

[nolatom]

Geeze, DR, you don't have to jump on every train that goes through the station. You bored after the Albin Vega trip and Ensanada race accident threads?

You're sailing below your license on this one. These guys don't know enough not to rise to the bait. Save it.


That said, kudos for leaving the Cape Dory 25 tuning thread alone...

[DoRag]

Geeze, DR, you don't have to jump on every train that goes through the station. You bored after the Albin Vega trip and Ensanada race accident threads?

You're sailing below your license on this one. These guys don't know enough not to rise to the bait. Save it.


That said, kudos for leaving the Cape Dory 25 tuning thread alone...

I also left the Pearson 30 mast tuning thread alone. Maybe I'm maturing?

[Monster Mash]

BOS
I've been sailing with one for years in our beercan races. 8-15kts flatish seas. The boat has its moments but I think its over crewed. The skipper wants to run it like a big boat and there just isn't enough things to do for the amount of crew he sails with. Yes there is some yelling.
that being said its got a lot of room below and IMO is easily sailed by a crew of 3

[SHNOOL]

Crew of 3 might be perfect for the narrow waters I deal with... 5 would be too much railmeat any day of the week regardless of skill they can bring to the table.

Since I started saying I am cutting my teeth on this stuff, it puts everything in play, including the ribbing I knew I'd get. But as I suspected there is also some real help here, you know, now that I'm watching Monster trucks.

SeaSalt, Monster, Guitar... thnx.

DR obviously you have to care... otherwise why would you waste time on us underlings... Glad to see I made it higher in the water for the bait than the Cape D, and Pearson threads enough to get a rise.

I also left the Pearson 30 mast tuning thread alone. Maybe I'm maturing?

As for HamIt posting the video, I give him great kudos. It takes b@lls to post a video of screw ups. His purpose for posting was for training, and I think for that it's very useful. We're all not AC, or VOR here.

[Tejano]

Enjoy your ride...Frank Butler design nonwithstanding. All that matters is YOU are happy with it. We blowhards on the Anarchy should not influence your enjoyment or not. Time will tell.

[opa1]

Go for it dude. If it makes you happy, then that's what counts. Nobody here that is giving you advice is spending any money, therefore, the advice is easy to give. Keep you family involved and it all makes sense.

[kmcfast]

Let me get this straight is it DoRag or DueshRag?
Leave the newbie alone.

[Coulrophobiac]

I just upgraded from an older (1989) Capri 22 wing keel, to a 1982 Capri 25. I wanted more "go fast" and was hoping to actually race in our "friendly" portsmouth races. For whatever reason (logical or not) I upgraded and it only cost me $300 more and round trip cost of gas of driving 1100 miles (yep I am daft)... My ultimate goal is to be competitive with the S2s, J22, and J24s that we have in our mixed fleet. I am not expecting a Capri 25 to be faster than an S2 7.9, or J22, or J24, but am hoping to at least be in the ball park with them.

Anyway, new to racing, and more importantly new to a masthead rig. The boat is ragged out for sure. Bottom is ablative (god knows why), and needs redone, and the sails are original, and blown out (part of why it was so cheap). I checked the compression post, the bilges, and honestly the structure of the boat is sound. Rigging was redone recently (last 2 years) and hasn't been "stressed" much yet (as it had only been sailed/rigged twice in that time). Checking chainplates and overall structure the boat is good, but not "new." The bulkheads are solid as a rock and recently varnished and resealed (it's been sitting on the hard for probably 7 years, and spend only about 3 months in those 7 years in water).

I've managed to get the boat launched and in a slip, and I have been out on the water 3 times so far, in 8-10 knots (single handed), and 12-15 knots (single handed - reefed main, and 130). Finally I sailed it (can you call this sailing) in 0-3 knots of wind with the 155 up. I haven't had crew yet, so have not had a chance to fly the spin. Was thinking tiller-pilot and light winds 3-5 to see if I can set spin myself.

The sail inventory is 2 mains (both ragged out, 1 original dacron, 2nd upgraded dacron cut deeper and better shape but again ragged, 155 mylar Genoa which I patched with tape in 2 places (non structural) that was barely used was ripped from gulp, folding, a 150 dacron heavy number 2 that looks very decent but is still old, and a 130 heavy, that has - gulp - reef points on it, and a nice shape tri-radial that hasn't seen the light of day in years I bet.

Can anyone give me an idiots guide of what's different in the masthead versus the fractional I had before, rigging/tune/sail shape/sail reduction? There were some here saying about the Capri 25 as an entry/gateway to PHRF racing (which who knows might have been tongue in cheek), so I hope to draw on some of that expertise. What else should I look at while I prepping it for next year?

I know I am sailing this boat REALLY ugly right now, but this is what I have (for now). I am familiar with fairing a keel, and sanding a bottom, resealing and doing VC-17m (did I mention I am freshwater?), just didn't have the luxury of time (or money) this year to do it (short sailing season and would rather the sail time than the extra speed right now). Come fall though, all bets are off. I hope to have a good understanding of what makes this boat tick by then, figured I could draw on some experts here to help kick start my learning.

Oh, and the boat was awlgripped probably 20 years ago, white over baby blue. So I am likely going to get a crash course in roll&tip. Come Christmas I should have the cash for 2 decent sails, was thinking a respectable maybe loose foot main, and a decent 155 reinforced mylar genoa (since most of my sailing is in light air - I have a max budget, so I can't buy 2 $10k sails, since I only have $6k in the boat, but $4-5k for 2 sails might be tolerable). Then can replace others as I get the cash.

Oh, and I'll say it to myself "f&ck off newb."

You at Ironwood? PM me, I will go out with you sometime and we can see if we can't get you up at the front. Old sails will not kill you up there as bad as you imagine they might, but let's take a look at what you have.

SHNOOL - I drove a Capri 25 back in the late 80's early 90's against various J24/Merrit25/Cal29.9/S27.9/Kerbi25's etc - the boat ABSOLUTELY CRUSHED folks. Don't listen to the moron's on SA hoping that mommy and daddy will upgrade their opti's for them so they can stay on OD. You bought a winner. While I wouldn't spend the money (and you'll take a rating the hit) - the boat loves a narrower double spreader rig and jib tracks inboard. Mike Ironmonger (St Mary's, MD sailing coach) made the modifications to his Capri 25 and killed it for a few years.

[Coulrophobiac]

I just upgraded from an older (1989) Capri 22 wing keel, to a 1982 Capri 25. I wanted more "go fast" and was hoping to actually race in our "friendly" portsmouth races. For whatever reason (logical or not) I upgraded and it only cost me $300 more and round trip cost of gas of driving 1100 miles (yep I am daft)... My ultimate goal is to be competitive with the S2s, J22, and J24s that we have in our mixed fleet. I am not expecting a Capri 25 to be faster than an S2 7.9, or J22, or J24, but am hoping to at least be in the ball park with them.

Anyway, new to racing, and more importantly new to a masthead rig. The boat is ragged out for sure. Bottom is ablative (god knows why), and needs redone, and the sails are original, and blown out (part of why it was so cheap). I checked the compression post, the bilges, and honestly the structure of the boat is sound. Rigging was redone recently (last 2 years) and hasn't been "stressed" much yet (as it had only been sailed/rigged twice in that time). Checking chainplates and overall structure the boat is good, but not "new." The bulkheads are solid as a rock and recently varnished and resealed (it's been sitting on the hard for probably 7 years, and spend only about 3 months in those 7 years in water).

I've managed to get the boat launched and in a slip, and I have been out on the water 3 times so far, in 8-10 knots (single handed), and 12-15 knots (single handed - reefed main, and 130). Finally I sailed it (can you call this sailing) in 0-3 knots of wind with the 155 up. I haven't had crew yet, so have not had a chance to fly the spin. Was thinking tiller-pilot and light winds 3-5 to see if I can set spin myself.

The sail inventory is 2 mains (both ragged out, 1 original dacron, 2nd upgraded dacron cut deeper and better shape but again ragged, 155 mylar Genoa which I patched with tape in 2 places (non structural) that was barely used was ripped from gulp, folding, a 150 dacron heavy number 2 that looks very decent but is still old, and a 130 heavy, that has - gulp - reef points on it, and a nice shape tri-radial that hasn't seen the light of day in years I bet.

Can anyone give me an idiots guide of what's different in the masthead versus the fractional I had before, rigging/tune/sail shape/sail reduction? There were some here saying about the Capri 25 as an entry/gateway to PHRF racing (which who knows might have been tongue in cheek), so I hope to draw on some of that expertise. What else should I look at while I prepping it for next year?

I know I am sailing this boat REALLY ugly right now, but this is what I have (for now). I am familiar with fairing a keel, and sanding a bottom, resealing and doing VC-17m (did I mention I am freshwater?), just didn't have the luxury of time (or money) this year to do it (short sailing season and would rather the sail time than the extra speed right now). Come fall though, all bets are off. I hope to have a good understanding of what makes this boat tick by then, figured I could draw on some experts here to help kick start my learning.

Oh, and the boat was awlgripped probably 20 years ago, white over baby blue. So I am likely going to get a crash course in roll&tip. Come Christmas I should have the cash for 2 decent sails, was thinking a respectable maybe loose foot main, and a decent 155 reinforced mylar genoa (since most of my sailing is in light air - I have a max budget, so I can't buy 2 $10k sails, since I only have $6k in the boat, but $4-5k for 2 sails might be tolerable). Then can replace others as I get the cash.

Oh, and I'll say it to myself "f&ck off newb."

You at Ironwood? PM me, I will go out with you sometime and we can see if we can't get you up at the front. Old sails will not kill you up there as bad as you imagine they might, but let's take a look at what you have.

SHNOOL - I drove a Capri 25 back in the late 80's early 90's against various J24/Merrit25/Cal29.9/S27.9/Kerbi25's etc - the boat ABSOLUTELY CRUSHED folks. Don't listen to the moron's on SA hoping that mommy and daddy will upgrade their opti's for them so they can stay on OD. You bought a winner. While I wouldn't spend the money (and you'll take a rating the hit) - the boat loves a narrower double spreader rig and jib tracks inboard. Mike Ironmonger (St Mary's, MD sailing coach) made the modifications to his Capri 25 and killed it for a few years.

Oh, and consider adding a little forestay length win/if buy new sails. (Make sure you have dead helm - as I did at the time) We extended the forestay (I think 4 inches?) put rake in the rig. She spit the J's out the back upwind. No one could point with her.