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VOR Leg 9 - Broke the Other Thread


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#1 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:02 PM

Sorry folks. LIvestream finally got their new embed player done and I got excited and posted the code for it. And it broke the Leg 9 thread. Sorry!

#2 harzak

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:12 PM

Sanya is shown 65 nm behind in Livestream and 9.1 nm behind in Live tracker. ?

Edit: In position report as of 13:35 UTC I meant.
Edit2: And 11 nm behind in position report 14:06 UTC.

#3 Raked aft \\

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:17 PM

Puma must be really flying... live tracker just showed them literally jump one of the islands!

#4 Port Tack Approach

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:20 PM

Puma must be really flying... live tracker just showed them literally jump one of the islands!

they are all going for the portage! Camper and tele too!

I haven't been following thus far. can anyone bring me up to speed? how did ADOR and Sanya end up so far back so quick? just boat speed?

this leg seems like a drag race

#5 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:22 PM

If Cammas get fourth and Read first, does G4 clinch?

#6 onimod

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:28 PM

Yes

#7 s2 alter ego

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:28 PM

Sanya is shown 65 nm behind in Livestream and 9.1 nm behind in Live tracker. ?

Edit: In position report as of 13:35 UTC I meant.
Edit2: And 11 nm behind in position report 14:06 UTC.

19 miles behind by measurement ruler on 2D live tracker.
9.1 miles at position 14:06 UTC report
over 60 miles on virtual eye of livestream.

All those at the same time.
What are we suppose to beleave.

And it's not just sanya either.

Edit, they fixed it in virtual eye to 19 miles behind, I guess that must be correct then. In that case position report was just nonsense.

#8 schakel

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:53 PM

If Cammas get fourth and Read first, does G4 clinch?


If the finish is the same as the position of the fleet right now they finish as follows:
Points before leg 9 - Points in leg 9 - Points after leg 9

Puma 200 - 30 - 230
Telephonica 194 - 25 - 219
Camper 196 - 20 - 216
Groupama 225 - 15 - 240

Since there are no more than 6 points won in the in-port race of Galway,
Groupama is sure of there victory.
Unless Gammas knows at the last moment to finish last the match is surely won by Groupama.
If Gammas Finishes last the inport race Gallway will be decided for who wins before each other.
Puma or Groupama.

But that's extremely unlikely.

#9 mad

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:12 PM

Well it had to happen didn't it? Volvo site looking like it'll crash out soon.

#10 Left Hook

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:27 PM


If Cammas get fourth and Read first, does G4 clinch?


If the finish is the same as the position of the fleet right now they finish as follows:
Points before leg 9 - Points in leg 9 - Points after leg 9

Puma 200 - 30 - 230
Telephonica 194 - 25 - 219
Camper 196 - 20 - 216
Groupama 225 - 15 - 240

Since there are no more than 6 points won in the in-port race of Galway,
Groupama is sure of there victory.
Unless Gammas knows at the last moment to finish last the match is surely won by Groupama.
If Gammas Finishes last the inport race Gallway will be decided for who wins before each other.
Puma or Groupama.

But that's extremely unlikely.


What will be interesting will be watching the fight for 3rd place in the in-port between Camper and Telefonica.

#11 smackdaddy

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:33 PM


If Cammas get fourth and Read first, does G4 clinch?


If the finish is the same as the position of the fleet right now they finish as follows:
Points before leg 9 - Points in leg 9 - Points after leg 9

Puma 200 - 30 - 230
Telephonica 194 - 25 - 219
Camper 196 - 20 - 216
Groupama 225 - 15 - 240

Since there are no more than 6 points won in the in-port race of Galway,
Groupama is sure of there victory.
Unless Gammas knows at the last moment to finish last the match is surely won by Groupama.
If Gammas Finishes last the inport race Gallway will be decided for who wins before each other.
Puma or Groupama.

But that's extremely unlikely.


Stats be damned - coming back from a complete bust on Leg 2 with the boat being shipped to the next port - to 2nd place just a few points behind the leader. That's some fine racing Mr. Read.

#12 Alpina

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:33 PM

G4 ditched the Genoa and races the Code0 from now on.

#13 Left Hook

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 03:36 PM

G4 ditched the Genoa and races the Code0 from now on.


That's a running spinnaker...

#14 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:18 PM

How come no pictures as they shot the gap back there? Nobody in Ireland clued in here?

#15 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:20 PM


.............What will be interesting will be watching the fight for 3rd place in the in-port between Camper and Telefonica.


...not sure if interesting is the right word,,,,'anticlimax' might be more appropriate ;)

...I -don't- want to jinx anyone ;) ,,but in the name of a very exciting in-port,,
,,,CONGRATULATIONS to Groupon and Puma for a job well done :rolleyes:

#16 Alpina

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:24 PM


G4 ditched the Genoa and races the Code0 from now on.


That's a running spinnaker...

Mybad, never heard of such a sail.

#17 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:41 PM

This is going to be a test of nerves as the guys behind have a chance to catch up as the breeze lightens and goes aft. Reminiscent of Puma holding off Telefonica into Brazil.

#18 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:47 PM

This is going to be a test of nerves as the guys behind have a chance to catch up as the breeze lightens and goes aft. Reminiscent of Puma holding off Telefonica into Brazil.

I'd go for any other order of finish in the lead 3,,,want an exciting in-port more than -anything-!

#19 umpire

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:56 PM



If Cammas get fourth and Read first, does G4 clinch?


If the finish is the same as the position of the fleet right now they finish as follows:
Points before leg 9 - Points in leg 9 - Points after leg 9

Puma 200 - 30 - 230
Telephonica 194 - 25 - 219
Camper 196 - 20 - 216
Groupama 225 - 15 - 240

Since there are no more than 6 points won in the in-port race of Galway,
Groupama is sure of there victory.
Unless Gammas knows at the last moment to finish last the match is surely won by Groupama.
If Gammas Finishes last the inport race Gallway will be decided for who wins before each other.
Puma or Groupama.

But that's extremely unlikely.


Stats be damned - coming back from a complete bust on Leg 2 with the boat being shipped to the next port - to 2nd place just a few points behind the leader. That's some fine racing Mr. Read.


How about G4 breaking the mast and still completing the course, thats fine sailing!!

#20 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:19 PM


How about G4 breaking the mast and still completing the course, thats fine sailing!!


...yup,,they kinda 'deserve' the win over that

#21 harzak

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:02 PM


If Cammas get fourth and Read first, does G4 clinch?


If the finish is the same as the position of the fleet right now they finish as follows:
Points before leg 9 - Points in leg 9 - Points after leg 9

Puma 200 - 30 - 230
Telephonica 194 - 25 - 219
Camper 196 - 20 - 216
Groupama 225 - 15 - 240

Since there are no more than 6 points won in the in-port race of Galway,
Groupama is sure of there victory.
Unless Gammas knows at the last moment to finish last the match is surely won by Groupama.
If Gammas Finishes last the inport race Gallway will be decided for who wins before each other.
Puma or Groupama.

But that's extremely unlikely.

Actually, if Puma wins this leg and Groupama takes 5th, then Puma will win the VOR if: Groupama comes last in the in-port and Puma wins it. They'll be tied on points, but IIRC Puma will take it because of best place in the last race. Correct?

#22 popo

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:15 PM

I see camper head of Groupama on the vor website.
How did they overtook them ? Can't see the tracker from cellphone

#23 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:27 PM

I see camper head of Groupama on the vor website.
How did they overtook them ? Can't see the tracker from cellphone

..you're comparing a serious focus of people who care....
...to a wine party,,,and people who probably want to watch an exciting in-port too!! :rolleyes:

#24 desi1

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:31 PM

Groupama in second position...they are flying right now

#25 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:39 PM

Groupama in second position...they are flying right now

..not sure how yer get that,,still in 4th ~.35mi behind Tele,,1.8 behind Pooma

#26 ezyb

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:57 PM

Holy shit Camper is dismantling Puma's lead - down to 200m

#27 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:11 PM

Holy shit Camper is dismantling Puma's lead - down to 200m


..soon t'be a gybe duel :blink: :blink:

#28 Cyrille Hydrogene

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:16 PM


Holy shit Camper is dismantling Puma's lead - down to 200m


..soon t'be a gybe duel :blink: :blink:


And Groupama seem to have good speed and good angle compared to the rest of the fleet! Can they come back and battle it with Tele for the finish?

#29 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:17 PM

...campa now closer to finish,,a -bit-,,,bring on the gybe-duel!

#30 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:23 PM

...tele pressing-in too,,within .3 mi :blink:

#31 harzak

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:34 PM

What's up with Puma standing still?

#32 harzak

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:36 PM

Wow! Groupama gybes!

#33 Ripper

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:37 PM

G4 gybed... here we go!!

#34 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:45 PM

What's up with Puma standing still?

damn,,they'd wanna know too,,,groupa's got'em now
...I REALLY don't want Groupa in the mix :o

#35 harzak

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:47 PM

Everybody gybed except Telefonica. Groupama seems to be sailing a slightly better angle than Camper.

#36 smackdaddy

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:49 PM




If Cammas get fourth and Read first, does G4 clinch?


If the finish is the same as the position of the fleet right now they finish as follows:
Points before leg 9 - Points in leg 9 - Points after leg 9

Puma 200 - 30 - 230
Telephonica 194 - 25 - 219
Camper 196 - 20 - 216
Groupama 225 - 15 - 240

Since there are no more than 6 points won in the in-port race of Galway,
Groupama is sure of there victory.
Unless Gammas knows at the last moment to finish last the match is surely won by Groupama.
If Gammas Finishes last the inport race Gallway will be decided for who wins before each other.
Puma or Groupama.

But that's extremely unlikely.


Stats be damned - coming back from a complete bust on Leg 2 with the boat being shipped to the next port - to 2nd place just a few points behind the leader. That's some fine racing Mr. Read.


How about G4 breaking the mast and still completing the course, thats fine sailing!!


No argument there.

I just meant that Puma is the only team in the top 4 to get 0 points for a leg - then claw back to within striking distance of the lead. Jury rigging is one thing - that's something else.

#37 harzak

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:50 PM

They can't lay the Earagh, can they?

#38 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:59 PM

mann,,Groupa's in 2nd,,.23 k behind campa,,,musta finally put their drinks down :blink:

mehopes groupama get past,,keep the points CLOSE for th'inport!!

#39 bruno

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:15 PM

gybe is at what? 110 TWA? just clearing the tip of the island? current effect?

#40 Liquid

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:15 PM

They can't lay the Earagh, can they?


Agreed... CMPR and GPMA don't look to be making it, yet...

#41 Liquid

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:18 PM

gybe is at what? 110 TWA? just clearing the tip of the island? current effect?


Looks like it gets lighter as they go inshore. Won't that favor the leeward boats for the rounding?

#42 Alysum

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:21 PM

Can't believe how close this race is, why wasn't it this close in the previous legs? Groupama a few hundred meters behind Camper, go G4!

#43 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:24 PM


They can't lay the Earagh, can they?


Agreed... CMPR and GPMA don't look to be making it, yet...


I disagree, I think they will make it on this gybe. Just like coming into Lorient, those who gybed early will win this, and Puma is losing out once again by being conservative. If someone else has to win this stage, I hope it is Camper. They need one win.

#44 HHN92

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:25 PM

Wow, I think this is going to be really close. It's full-on now.

#45 Alysum

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:28 PM

Tracker shows G4 in front of Camper?

edit: issues with trackers it seems, quick fix it!

#46 HHN92

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:31 PM

Tracker shows G4 in front of Camper?


They were on their stern in the video chat a minute ago.

#47 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:31 PM

Tracker shows G4 in front of Camper?


Camper has not been updated for a few minutes.

#48 Alysum

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:36 PM

Ah G4 gybes

#49 bruno

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:36 PM

north set?

#50 Sailor90

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:39 PM


Tracker shows G4 in front of Camper?


Camper has not been updated for a few minutes.


Tracker seems to be frozen.

Go Go the Puma!

#51 Sailor90

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:42 PM

Working now, Puma is infront!

#52 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:43 PM

Working now, Puma is infront!


Don't trust it, the tracker is screwy

#53 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:49 PM

Talking live to Groupama right now on VOR site, going to a mast-head zero from a gennaker?

http://www.volvoocea...om/en/home.html

Wish they would show where the other boats are. Saw two in the port lee, maybe Puma and Tele, but no sign of Camper?

#54 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:49 PM


Working now, Puma is infront!


Don't trust it, the tracker is screwy



totally!!....methinks only Puma's is currently working!
...need some local-live commentary

#55 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:52 PM

Amazingly relaxed bunch on GP4! Wish it would not get dark so soon.

#56 Kenny Dumas

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:52 PM

Puma looks pretty good on this jibe and the wind looks steady all the way in (8-12 in Galway). Tracker updates suck with arbitrary updates on each boat so they leapfrog each other, weird.

#57 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:55 PM

by minidriver 1:53 PM
We got this from Race Control a couple of mins ago: 1 CMPR 2 GPMA 3 PUMA 4 TELE but yes, it's really a tie, pretty much

#58 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:55 PM

VOR site says Camper still in front. Virtual eye is all messed up though, with the boats on port, etc. They have a note saying they have tracker problems.

#59 C Hawk

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:57 PM

Groupama and Camper have not updated position is quite some time. I suspect Puma is in third.

#60 Cyrille Hydrogene

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:58 PM

amazing to see Yann Riou able to show us live the images of the boats around!
positions are now:
1. Cmpr
2. G4
3.Puma
4.Tele

#61 Alysum

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:58 PM

The tracker is officially broken. Currently Camper, G4, Puma, Tele in that order on the same layline to the mark - they can all see each other, so close!

#62 Lostmydetailsagain

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:00 PM

2D live tracker still has Puma in front, G4 just ahead of camper and telefonica sailing a very different (faster?) angle converging with G4 and Camper at Eareagh Lighthouse

#63 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:02 PM

AIS shows Camper at 10knots, with Puma and Tele behind, but GP4 is not on it. http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/

#64 C Hawk

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:03 PM

2D live tracker still has Puma in front, G4 just ahead of camper and telefonica sailing a very different (faster?) angle converging with G4 and Camper at Eareagh Lighthouse



Put recent history in motion and you'll see it is messed up.

#65 Left Hook

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:03 PM

AIS is on and all but Tele have their turned on. Better than the VOR Tracker at the moment.

Edit: Forget it. They're disappearing and reappearing randomly from AIS as well.

#66 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:06 PM

AIS is on and all but Tele have their turned on. Better than the VOR Tracker at the moment.


I don't see Camper on the AIS, and Tele are gone now too. VOR site says the video from GP4 showed Camper in front by 500m.

Shit, now AIS has Camper showing and GP4 in front. Seems all these 'live" sources of data are not that live.

#67 Cyrille Hydrogene

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:07 PM

AIS is on and all but Tele have their turned on. Better than the VOR Tracker at the moment.

Edit: Forget it. They're disappearing and reappearing randomly from AIS as well.


Not really. AIS shows G4 in front in Camper, but we saw on live TV a few minutes ago the images from Groupama, showing Camper in front, and Puma and Tele following.

#68 Nigel Texas

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:22 PM

Video from Groupama at 20:53 UTC showed all boats on starboard gybe sailing toward the shore. Groupama was in 4th, Camper just ahead in 3rd, Tele abeam a long way to port in 2nd and Puma to port and ahead in 1st. Pretty much what the tracker shows (if you refresh and reset to "live"), except that the tracker shows Camper behind Groupama. The leaderboard on the tracker is on another planet.

#69 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:28 PM

Video from Groupama at 20:53 UTC showed all boats on starboard gybe sailing toward the shore. Groupama was in 4th, Camper just ahead in 3rd, Tele abeam a long way to port in 2nd and Puma to port and ahead in 1st. Pretty much what the tracker shows (if you refresh and reset to "live"), except that the tracker shows Camper behind Groupama. The leaderboard on the tracker is on another planet.


Nope, the "LIVE" tracker and the Virtual Eye on the VOR sites are not updating, watch the forum on the right hand side of the VOR home page for details. Current order, confirmed by intermittent AIS readings is Camper, GP4, Puma, Tele.

#70 A Florida Redneck

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:38 PM

Puma ahead on http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/
But looks like the boats update at different times and now Groupa is ahead...

#71 Sailor90

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:42 PM

Looks like Camper will be the first to reach Eeragh Lighthouse followed by Group, Puma, & Tele.

#72 garboard strake

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:48 PM

WTF? who is leading? how close to the finish are they? WTF is going on?

dicking around with intermittent signals on AIS to try and figure out what is happening is no way to have to follow this effing race to the finish of this crucial leg

unreliable data? arrgh

#73 Ripper

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:50 PM

Millions trying to watch this and only 70+- know exactly what's going on.
The sponsors must be real excited.

I bet the pics/vids of G4 finishing will be live. Good for them.

The VOR needs a shake.

#74 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:51 PM

AIS shows other boats falling in line with the VORs. Wish someone on board would update on the VOR Blog, which right now is a hilarious mess of comments.

#75 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:53 PM

Too funny, VOR just shut down the blog!

#76 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:57 PM

Too funny, VOR just shut down the blog!


..some asshat claimed to be onsite,,with Campa's mast down <_<

...whatta disapointing mess :(

#77 Panoramix

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:03 PM

Is Telefonica's AIS not working? :rolleyes:

According to the Ais Camper is about 3 minutes ahead of G4 himself 3 minutes ahead of Puma.

If they stay like this, Camper would finish 2nd overall! Galway bay is notoriously tricky and well known by figaro sailors..

#78 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:06 PM

Is Telefonica's AIS not working? :rolleyes:

According to the Ais Camper is about 3 minutes ahead of G4 himself 3 minutes ahead of Puma.

If they stay like this, Camper would finish 2nd overall! Galway bay is notoriously tricky and well known by figaro sailors..


You have to do some dead reckoning with the AIS data, as they are intermittent. Clicking on the icon for the boat shows you when the data were last received. And Tele just popped up again. I think the order remains the same, Camper, GP4, Puma, Tele, but it is awfully tight, and immensely frustrating that VOR has no backup for their live data other than sending out a rib, of which there are at least three already on site.

#79 Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:07 PM

boy Camper nailed that gybe line

#80 dumper

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:08 PM

How long too the line??

#81 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:13 PM

How long too the line??


.............2-3 hours it seems

#82 dumper

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:15 PM


How long too the line??


.............2-3 hours it seems

Shit it's close

#83 Danno

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:18 PM

Looking at the AIS data, there's a great scrap for second going on between Groupama and Puma, Camper about 0.5 miles in front and Telefonica about 0.5 miles back.

#84 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:20 PM

Looking at the AIS data, there's a great scrap for second going on between Groupama and Puma, Camper about 0.5 miles in front and Telefonica about 0.5 miles back.


...yeh,,Groupama's position dictates wether it's event over,,or exciting in-port :unsure:

#85 edelweis

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:28 PM

tracker now working

#86 dumper

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:29 PM

is the livestream tracker on the volvo site up to date?

#87 edelweis

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:30 PM

is the livestream tracker on the volvo site up to date?


yes

#88 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:32 PM


is the livestream tracker on the volvo site up to date?


yes


No, AIS shows them well beyond that point, but the order remains the same. If Puma stay in third they will have only their conservatism in calling the layline to the lighthouse to blame.

#89 edelweis

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:39 PM



is the livestream tracker on the volvo site up to date?


yes


No, AIS shows them well beyond that point, but the order remains the same. If Puma stay in third they will have only their conservatism in calling the layline to the lighthouse to blame.


This lifestream tracker on VOR main site seems to be correct. Goevoile tracker lags behind

#90 TheDragon

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:40 PM

Shit, another driftfest to an inland finish in the dark. If Camper get passed now, like Telefonica did in Portugal, it will be a sin. I'm going home. Goodnight all.

#91 harzak

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:40 PM

Rich getting richer now?

#92 HHN92

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:43 PM

Will they break into video on the Livestream?


edit: Livestream shows 16.5 miles to the finish.

#93 Swanno (Ohf Shore)

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:50 PM



How long too the line??


.............2-3 hours it seems

Shit it's close


But as the Red Dog (Camper) has proven far too often in the past, there is plenty of time to drop back a place within the last couple of miles.

#94 dumper

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:56 PM




How long too the line??


.............2-3 hours it seems

Shit it's close


But as the Red Dog (Camper) has proven far too often in the past, there is plenty of time to drop back a place within the last couple of miles.


i hope not, GO CAMPER!!!!!!

#95 richie

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:56 PM

...it does not look good for Puma,hope that they can still pull the rabbit out....oopps,did I said "R" word :lol:

BTW,Puma is registered in Malta(??) reg AIS....:o

#96 edelweis

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:03 PM

webcam (at the docks)

#97 dumper

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:04 PM

...it does not look good for Puma,hope that they can still pull the rabbit out....oopps,did I said "R" word :lol:

BTW,Puma is registered in Malta(??) reg AIS....:o


i was wondering about that too

#98 HHN92

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:04 PM

Camper has disappeared from the tracker.....................................eeeerie. :o

#99 HHN92

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:11 PM

Something live kicking-in.

#100 harzak

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:12 PM


...it does not look good for Puma,hope that they can still pull the rabbit out....oopps,did I said "R" word :lol:

BTW,Puma is registered in Malta(??) reg AIS....:o


i was wondering about that too

Heard Malta's the cheapest way of taxing a boat into Europe. Tax percentage is decided by the country, but once taxed the boat goes for all of the European Union :)




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