54 replies to this topic

[Stanuel]

Have had experience on some high performance boats, including grandprix level. Now looking to get into multihulls, a first step but want it to be fast and exciting, but be able to push and learn quickly. Will most likely be in California on coast somewhere, probably L.A. and want to do an ocassional overnight race like Ensenada...

But what's out there really? So pro's + cons...

from what I can tell the choices are.

Corsair 31R or Corsair 31 1D (whats bette, old design ?)

Seacart 30 (not many available, and upper end of budget, a little higher strung)

Light Speed 32 (only 1 made?)

Reynolds 32...um/

various farrier boats like the F - 32 SR looks pretty cool, custom build? cost? and would like to get boat soon though...availability of other F's in U.S.?

And yes I saw Rosebud in the classifieds, and read post regarding that type of boat (M 32 ect)... a bit to extreme for medium coastal racing I gotta think.

What else?

[isma]

Iff, (if an only if for the unwashed) you know what you are doing, go the Reynolds 33. The F-boats are boring by comparison.

[eric e]

if you are even thinking of a seacart 30

you could probably get the new canadian toro cat or the nacra australia 36

[Corley]

If I had the budget I'd go the Seacart 30 it has a high level of performance with a useable (if small) interior. Personally I dont think the Nacra36 would fit the bill for medium coastal racing no shelter just a large beach cat and may be excluded from some races due to those factors.

[gthomas72]

You can get a F-85SR or F-32SR built in 6 month at Multihullsdirect and shipped from the Philippines. Depending on your budget you can get all carbon build, lifting foils and canting rig if you want.

This will give you a fast boat that you can do overnight races in with a high resale value.

[F-18 5150]

There is a F-40 in long beach for about 150k

[SL33_SF]

The boats you list have a speed range of about a factor two between slowest and fastest.
Yes, this is not about plus or minus 1-2 knots, there are 10+ kn in between these designs.

You get what you pay for and any amenities will carry a hefty cost in speed.

[Y-Bar]

You might want to consider the Grainger Raider 30. Older version but still plenty quick.
Faster than most Farriers. Demounntable /trailable. Coffin yachting bunks, sink, stove,crusing rear hard deck.

http://www.boatsales...93&tabID=303693

[vmg]

You are probably a half decent sailor, but will probably abmit that you are on a learning curve as far as multis go.
Your best bet would be to get the same boat as someone else so that you can learn quicker.
What do you see racing in the races that you want to do?

You wont go far wrong with an F31 and your money will be fairly safe in one of those if you decide that you want to move on.

[munt]

seacarts look magnificent and f-boats are super excellent, all around functional boats but I bet you could customize an r-33 to your preferences (beam, rig height, sail plan etc.) and have yourself a redhot racing machine at a very tidy price.

[soma]

A Seacart is a fantastic boat. It's the only modern, 21st century boat mentioned. It's tough and forgiving.

[Wess]

You are probably a half decent sailor, but will probably abmit that you are on a learning curve as far as multis go.
Your best bet would be to get the same boat as someone else so that you can learn quicker.
What do you see racing in the races that you want to do?

You wont go far wrong with an F31 and your money will be fairly safe in one of those if you decide that you want to move on.

What he said. Best, most realistic and practical advise offered on the thread by a long shot.

The Corsair F31s are pretty popular and are at the top of the Corsairs (that race regular) in terms of speed and comfort (but price too). If you are near or in San Fran there was/is a fleet of Corsair F27s racing and they - while slightly smaller and slower than the 31s - offer the best bang for the buck by light years. You can usually find a 27 in the 30-40s while you will be paying double that and likely much more for the 31. The 28s used to be a very active class but sadly, they died.

[krash]

What's your budget. The choices range from $60k to $260k...

[Corley]

If my conversion of lbs into kgs is correct the Reynolds 33 weighs nearly 365kg's more than the seacart 30 (1295kgs vs 930kgs) thats a fair bit more weight to compensate for, the seacart is also wider in beam at 21' versus 14' (is there more than one beam width on the R33?). The Seacart is more of an up to date boat with a full carbon build. With your monohull racing experience the trimaran would be a more intuitive conversion from what you are used to with centrally mounted winches around the cockpit. The C31 is a nice practical boat if you want to do some cruising as well, folds up nicely and is no slug but might not be the race boat your looking for.

[munt]

r-33 can be built in carbon and any width desired

[Occams Razor]

You might want to consider the Grainger Raider 30. Older version but still plenty quick.
Faster than most Farriers. Demounntable /trailable. Coffin yachting bunks, sink, stove,crusing rear hard deck.

http://www.boatsales...93&tabID=303693

I would love me a Raider - at a reasonable price point. $85k in real Ozzie dollars doesn't seem to be a reasonable price point.

[offtherails]

Raider for that price looks OK alongside new Seacart for over 3 times the price.
Another thought: Barrink 10m cat Crowded House was still listed in Oz - cheaper than the Raider, a bit longer , faster and roomier with its pod.

http://yachthub.com/...catamaran/99963

[overbend]

Disclaimer: I dont own it and have no other interests in this boat but this one is a bargain, even considering the shipping costs to USA, at $42K Pacific pesos (you would probably get it for under US$30K) you could have a very fast cat sailing for half the budgets I have seen above.
http://www.trademe.c...n-492002844.htm

[eric e]

Disclaimer: I dont own it and have no other interests in this boat but this one is a bargain, even considering the shipping costs to USA, at $42K Pacific pesos (you would probably get it for under US$30K) you could have a very fast cat sailing for half the budgets I have seen above.
http://www.trademe.c...n-492002844.htm

JT, tortured ply?

[rob d]

From memory, that Raider is about 1/2 the price of a new one. You couldn't buy the materials at anywhere near that price.

[Oxygen Mask]

If, (if and only if ..) you know what you are doing,

THAT is an important consideration for anyone contemplating a high performance racing multihull. Powered up multis can have serious "mistake consequences," they are not a good choice for anyone who doesn't have the required experience.

You can get a F-85SR or F-32SR built .... get all carbon build, lifting foils and canting rig if you want. This will give you a fast boat that you can do overnight races in with a high resale value.

^That's what I would love to do.

You are probably a half decent sailor, but will probably abmit that you are on a learning curve as far as multis go.Your best bet would be to get the same boat as someone else so that you can learn quicker.What do you see racing in the races that you want to do? You wont go far wrong with an F31 and your money will be fairly safe in one of those if you decide that you want to move on.

^Excellent advice. And later the F31 (get the F31R) can be sold (if desired) for what he paid. They hold their value well.

[PIL007]

Raider for that price looks OK alongside new Seacart for over 3 times the price.
Another thought: Barrink 10m cat Crowded House was still listed in Oz - cheaper than the Raider, a bit longer , faster and roomier with its pod.

http://yachthub.com/...catamaran/99963

Barrick 10m faster than a raider........Am i missing something here...?

[jaybird1111]

http://www.yachtworl...S/United-States

[Keith]

Raider for that price looks OK alongside new Seacart for over 3 times the price.
Another thought: Barrink 10m cat Crowded House was still listed in Oz - cheaper than the Raider, a bit longer , faster and roomier with its pod.

http://yachthub.com/...catamaran/99963

Barrick 10m faster than a raider........Am i missing something here...?

Here, let me buy you a 4X with a Bundy black chaser.

[PIL007]

Raider for that price looks OK alongside new Seacart for over 3 times the price.
Another thought: Barrink 10m cat Crowded House was still listed in Oz - cheaper than the Raider, a bit longer , faster and roomier with its pod.

http://yachthub.com/...catamaran/99963

Barrick 10m faster than a raider........Am i missing something here...?

Here, let me buy you a 4X with a Bundy black chaser.

4X.........please don't swear at me Keith

[Keith]

Raider for that price looks OK alongside new Seacart for over 3 times the price.
Another thought: Barrink 10m cat Crowded House was still listed in Oz - cheaper than the Raider, a bit longer , faster and roomier with its pod.

http://yachthub.com/...catamaran/99963

Barrick 10m faster than a raider........Am i missing something here...?

Here, let me buy you a 4X with a Bundy black chaser.

4X.........please don't swear at me Keith

oops, how about a Kokanee and a Crown Royal chaser.......

[Oxygen Mask]

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1989/Corsair-F-27-GS-2446171/Ocean-Springs/MS/United-States

^I thought that boat sold already. Killler deal IMO.

how about a Kokanee and a Crown Royal chaser, eh? .......

I heard a guy ('murrican) up in BC talking about how an American created the beer can. One of the locals politely pointed out that a Canadian invented the beer keg, and it too was a single serving container...

[Stanuel]

Thanks For the info everybody. It is interesting that there are not allot of choices when it comes down to it. As one poster mentioned, I agree and think a tri is the way to go, And the main choices are a Corsair 31R (or 1D) Seacart 30 or less likely because they are "custom" built (time and expense) a F - 32SR...

1. So, what would be the cost of a F -32SR anyway? Gotta be up there?

2. Can anybody explain the difference between a 31R and the 31 1D. Oxygen mask recommended the 31R, why? Looks to me that the 31 1D would be faster (ama's have no deck/hull seam, foils refined?, cleaner lighter interior?) is correct?

3. And relative performance differences between all mentioned. Obviously the Seacart will be quickest, but relative performance such as how much faster?!? As Soma mentioned, it is the only "modern" race tri available. Shame there is not more out there to choose from!?!

[Melvest Marine]

Hi, if you are serious about a Farrier 32-SR, we can build you one in 6 months from receipt of first payment. This year we shipped a partly finished F-32SRC to the Netherlands, but that is a much more expensive boat because of the carbon content. An F-32SR will cost around USD180,000 for a complete yacht ready to sail away.
Reginald Hare
President,
Melvest Marine Inc
Email: melvestmarine@gmail.com

[gthomas72]

3. And relative performance differences between all mentioned. Obviously the Seacart will be quickest, but relative performance such as how much faster?!? As Soma mentioned, it is the only "modern" race tri available. Shame there is not more out there to choose from!?!

Stanuel,

I was wondering what your basis for "modern" means. The Farrier F-32SR and F-85SR models are newer than the SeaCart 30 and can include all the "modern" fit-out you might want for a 30ft multi. This includes full-carbon, lifting foils, twin rudders, canting rig, tall masts, reverse bows, water ballast, and a well developed and proven folding system.

There has yet to be any real race data for either of these boats yet. The first F-32SR "Jail Break" got hit by lightning shortly after being launched and I dont believe is back in the water yet and the first F-85SR (hopefully mine) will be launched in October. Nonetheless, the "Jail Break" did show some good initial performance.

http://forums.sailin...pic=128692&st=0

The great thing about the Farrier Trimaran's is that they can be customised and if you use a licenced builder, any changes to the design will be approved by Ian Farrier, if they impact structural integrity or safety. The guys at Multihullsdirect.com are doing an excellent job on my F-85SR. I just hope that I am capable of sailing it to its potential.

Cheers
Glynn

[offtherails]

Raider for that price looks OK alongside new Seacart for over 3 times the price.
Another thought: Barrink 10m cat Crowded House was still listed in Oz - cheaper than the Raider, a bit longer , faster and roomier with its pod.

http://yachthub.com/...catamaran/99963

Barrick 10m faster than a raider........Am i missing something here...?

When I said faster.. meant higher OMR which should be faster.. MYCQ OMR site gives OMR for Barrink (say Pork Chop) as higher than Raiders ( say Rum Raider, Wired) .


Special modified Graingers based on Radier, such as Indian Chief are higher OMR, but still comparable with the Barrink

[Oxygen Mask]

Thanks For the info everybody. It is interesting that there are not allot of choices when it comes down to it. As one poster mentioned, I agree and think a tri is the way to go, And the main choices are a Corsair 31R (or 1D) Seacart 30 or less likely because they are "custom" built (time and expense) a F - 32SR...

1. So, what would be the cost of a F -32SR anyway? Gotta be up there?

2. Can anybody explain the difference between a 31R and the 31 1D. Oxygen mask recommended the 31R, why? Looks to me that the 31 1D would be faster (ama's have no deck/hull seam, foils refined?, cleaner lighter interior?) is correct?

3. And relative performance differences between all mentioned. Obviously the Seacart will be quickest, but relative performance such as how much faster?!? As Soma mentioned, it is the only "modern" race tri available. Shame there is not more out there to choose from!?!

2. The difference is that the 1D is only in aftcockpit version, sports a carbon mast/boom, carbon tiller, modified rudder/daggerboard, and minimalist interior with pipe berths.
(Some R's have carbon masts too.)

I recommended the R because it's faster than the standard F-31. I don't think the ID is any faster than the R, so why skip a usable (and more resaleable) interior?

3. You realize what the Seacart 30 costs?

[Oxygen Mask]

Hi, if you are serious about a Farrier 32-SR, we can build you one in 6 months from receipt of first payment. This year we shipped a partly finished F-32SRC to the Netherlands, but that is a much more expensive boat because of the carbon content. An F-32SR will cost around USD180,000 for a complete yacht ready to sail away.
Reginald Hare
President,
Melvest Marine Inc
Email: melvestmarine@gmail.com

That's about 100k less than the prices owners have divulged. I assume you don't mean to include shipping costs, mast, winches, rigging and sails?

[soma]

What about a Motive? I know the guys involved, there are 4 under construction right now. They look good.

IMHO, f boats are very sensible boats, they just do nothing for me.

I've sailed on and against Seacarts. They're fantastic boats.

[wombat 12m]

Under the UK MOCRA handicap system a seacart 30 has to give a F31R 15mins an hour. Not sure I'd want to recommend a seacart as a first muti though even if you have sailed high performance monos.I reckon you'd get yourself in a whole world of trouble to start with.I mean that is one powerful boat,beautiful,sexy,but not for the inexperienced.

[soma]

From my experience the Seacart is very straightforward. I'd take it slow to begin with, but it's fairly forgiving. Much more so than my F40 or a Reynolds (or an SL33 for that matter).

In general I think people are too jittery about multis. Watching the AC45s sail made me realize what a pansy I've been.

[Lat 18]

Have had experience on some high performance boats, including grandprix level. Now looking to get into multihulls, a first step but want it to be fast and exciting, but be able to push and learn quickly. Will most likely be in California on coast somewhere, probably L.A. and want to do an ocassional overnight race like Ensenada...

But what's out there really? So pro's + cons...

from what I can tell the choices are.

Corsair 31R or Corsair 31 1D (whats bette, old design ?)

Seacart 30 (not many available, and upper end of budget, a little higher strung)

Light Speed 32 (only 1 made?)

Reynolds 32...um/

various farrier boats like the F - 32 SR looks pretty cool, custom build? cost? and would like to get boat soon though...availability of other F's in U.S.?

And yes I saw Rosebud in the classifieds, and read post regarding that type of boat (M 32 ect)... a bit to extreme for medium coastal racing I gotta think.

What else?

Check out the Toro 34. They've finally got the first one done. Should be sea trialing as we speak. they're in Quebec.

[Occams Razor]

Disclaimer: I dont own it and have no other interests in this boat but this one is a bargain, even considering the shipping costs to USA, at $42K Pacific pesos (you would probably get it for under US$30K) you could have a very fast cat sailing for half the budgets I have seen above.
http://www.trademe.c...n-492002844.htm

JT, tortured ply?

Looks like it is tortured ply (one of the links said 4mm IIRC)

Anyone know the condition of the boat? Looks like a fun bomber at a very cheap price.

[Corley]

Hi, if you are serious about a Farrier 32-SR, we can build you one in 6 months from receipt of first payment. This year we shipped a partly finished F-32SRC to the Netherlands, but that is a much more expensive boat because of the carbon content. An F-32SR will cost around USD180,000 for a complete yacht ready to sail away.
Reginald Hare
President,
Melvest Marine Inc
Email: melvestmarine@gmail.com

That's about 100k less than the prices owners have divulged. I assume you don't mean to include shipping costs, mast, winches, rigging and sails?

I gather from what they are saying they are advising of the cost of building a F32sr in foam sandwich. I'd expect another 100k for carbon construction?

[Robnacra]

Go the nacra 36! My vote!

Go the nacra 36! My vote!

[Trevor B]

Hi, if you are serious about a Farrier 32-SR, we can build you one in 6 months from receipt of first payment. This year we shipped a partly finished F-32SRC to the Netherlands, but that is a much more expensive boat because of the carbon content. An F-32SR will cost around USD180,000 for a complete yacht ready to sail away.
Reginald Hare
President,
Melvest Marine Inc
Email: melvestmarine@gmail.com

That's about 100k less than the prices owners have divulged. I assume you don't mean to include shipping costs, mast, winches, rigging and sails?

I gather from what they are saying they are advising of the cost of building a F32sr in foam sandwich. I'd expect another 100k for carbon construction?

I'd guess another $35k for carbon construction, but then another $50K for a carbon mast, boom, and blades.

[Crossland]

2. The difference is that the 1D is only in aftcockpit version, sports a carbon mast/boom, carbon tiller, modified rudder/daggerboard, and minimalist interior with pipe berths.
(Some R's have carbon masts too.)

I recommended the R because it's faster than the standard F-31. I don't think the ID is any faster than the R, so why skip a usable (and more resaleable) interior?



Agree the 31R is much faster, because for most boats it is lighter than the standard, CC, UC, etc. , and owners have better sails. Carbon mast and less interior weight.

Disagree that the 1D is not faster than the standard 31 or 31R. The 31D is much lighter, different and more efficient foils, modified sail plan with more modern square top, and has been shown in head to head to be faster. . Per ratings ??, 31 1D is faster.
Negative , 31-1D's sell for 20-30K and up more than 31 or 31R, not worth it in my opinion.

Lots of 31's for sale on yachtworld, economy is such that the smaller boats are selling, not the boats at $90 - 100K. There are some bargains out there in all used boats..

[CraigP]

Disclaimer: I dont own it and have no other interests in this boat but this one is a bargain, even considering the shipping costs to USA, at $42K Pacific pesos (you would probably get it for under US$30K) you could have a very fast cat sailing for half the budgets I have seen above.
http://www.trademe.c...n-492002844.htm

JT, tortured ply?

Looks like it is tortured ply (one of the links said 4mm IIRC)

Anyone know the condition of the boat? Looks like a fun bomber at a very cheap price.

yeah, it is tortured ply with strip cedar decks. Boat is in good condition and heaps of fun.

[BeachbumII]

Seacart is simple and has very a logical pattern of behavior, BUT: Its a sport car. If you get a big shift and the boat powers up, everything happens fast. You need to be very aware and do the right things fast when stuff starts to happen. As said, the stuff is logical, but to do logical things, you need to learn the logic first. Seacart will give a (too) steep learning curve on the basics as the boat has plenty of Amperes. When I say aware, i mean aware on a level thats unknown at first to non-planing keelboaters.

[wombat 12m]

Couldn't agree more.You need to walk before you can run.Otherwise it's just another upside down multihull for the insurance companies to take a dim view of.

[eric e]

which

persumably

is why seacart made the 26

was looking for the video, looking back from the mast, of the seacart30? that does the near capsize and none of the crew react in time


couldn't find it


but this one always bring a smile

[Rosebud]

Don't write off Rosebud ( teamrosebud.com) as too advanced. She will not kick your butt while learning if you take it step by step. As you build your skill and confidence you then have a totally carbon platform that will sail circles around anything in her size and price range. You can always put up less sail and put down less board if you want to take it down a notch or two, but can't crank up the volume on boats that don't even come with 5th and 6th gear.

[B30]

Don't count out the Lightspeed 32. I know only one has been built, but I hear the guy who chartered it in SF also has the molds and would like to build more. As far as performance vs. offshore ability vs. comfort and ease of use, the light speed comes out on top.

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[SL33_SF]

• Take 1/50th of your budget and travel around to sail some of the mentioned boats. Most owners are more than happy to give a ride if asked nicely.
• Ignore the fear-mongers, especially if you actually enjoy moderate levels of mayhem ;-)
  "The waves are so big, and the wind is so strong, and the tide ah dah dah dai, ah dah dah dai!"
  -- Joe - WIND (1992)
• If you do get a really fast multi, get some small 'cheap' skiff, too (Musto, 29er, ...) It will teach you everything you will need to know.
  Don't get a beach cat for practice....

"Everyone wants it easy today Will. And the reason we don't have the Cup, is that we don't deserve to have the Cup."
-- Morgan to Will - WIND (1992)

[soma]

Well said sl33. Only...why not a beachcat?

[munt]

yeah, whazzamattah widda beacha catta? if you can sail a beachcat right proper you can sail any damn thing, imho...

[Billy Bob]

The market is saturated with great choices. The problem is that most of the used ones are overpriced, and most people seem to think that buying a new or used multihull is an investment. It is not! That's why there is not a lot of movement in the multihull market. Their are wood one, fiberglass ones and carbon ones. All in order of price. Fiberglass gel coat build is the easiest and cheapest to maintain and repair. Farrier is the most practical design for the bulk of us and his designs are pretty fast (certainly not extreme). His new boats are expensive which is justified for a new build and hold their price better than the rest for a used design. How fast do you need to go? Fast enough to be wet all the time? No comforts at all? Wife never to sail with you (except for the rare exception of the perfect wife)?
The cheapest cats at the moment seem to be here in New Zealand built out of wood or fiberglass in the 26 to 35 ft range but most are not practical. Cats almost all have to live in the water or in a yard at the waters edge. This includes most tris as well. The Farriers and a few others are practical from the standpoint of being able to take your boat from your house or shop, get it in the water with minimal effort and taking it all back to your place at the end of racing or cruising days. This is a huge advantage for most of us and allows us the most practicality in convenience, maintenance and costs. Why do you think most people have power boats? Easier.
Most of the people here love their boats or designs and find ways to love them for their different attributes, all the while putting up with varying degrees of hardship to get them out on the water. If you like spending heaps of dollars on your program the sky is the limit for a thirty footer. If you like a reasonable amount of speed, ease of putting it all together and maintaining it. There are few choices. You can find your best bargain by looking at what a particular new boat (bare bones) cost and see what the sold price of that same used boat cost (bare bones) after someone else has used it.
10 years ago there was not a lot of choices but now that multis are the new speed boats there are choices everywhere you look. Most of us have different reasons to go multihulling. Find your reason and find out how much of your life you want to spend doing it. Add up the costs for the initial outlay of cash, your ongoing monthly maintenance/expenses, what you can afford to spend and you will find your boat.

[yl75]

I'm also thinking of buying a 30ish feet multi, in fact a tri as it is more for cruising "blue water" in solo or couple, with the occasional friends on board for short trips, and comparatively a cat needs to be bigger for that (long passage), with the added benefits of folding beams of the tris for ports .

So my dream boat right now would be a 32 or maybe 39 new farrier.

But looking at used corsairs and Farriers listings, I'm gettig confused about the corsairs (typically the 31) hulls material.

Are they all foam core epoxy sandwich ?

Some foam core polyester sandwich ? foam vynilester ?

Some even plain glass polyester ?

On the pics the corsairs have something like a deck/hull joint on the amas, so they are not built with longitudinal vertical joints like the farriers ?

Any info on that ?

[eric e]

lots of stuff here

http://www.f-boat.com/

[Tritanic]

You might want to consider the Grainger Raider 30. Older version but still plenty quick.
Faster than most Farriers. Demounntable /trailable. Coffin yachting bunks, sink, stove,crusing rear hard deck.

http://www.boatsales...93&tabID=303693

Hell yea! They are sick boats with big boyant hulls so can push hard. "Silver Raider" was the fastest boat in the Auckland scene for years:)