31 replies to this topic

[Greve de Lecq]

I am trying to narrow down my search for a small keel-boat and would like some thoughts on these three: Santana 20, Catalina 22 & SR Max 21.

How would these rate in the following:

Best PHRF performer in light to moderate air, flat water, upwind downwind courses, when sailing against larger boats?

Most suitable to sail short handed (lightweight 2 up)?

Most suitable for day sailing?

Availability of decent quality pre-owned sails?

Thanks

Greve de Lecq

[Bull Gator]

Sr 21 max

[LakeBoy]

I'd vote for the SR-21 out of that list unless there is a one-design option in the area for the others.

IIRC the SR-21 is rated at 171, in the ballpark with Wavelength 24 & J/24. PHRF-NW has a 'Tune 20 rated at 237. Didn't see a Catalina 22 listed there.

"Search" may find some old threads on the SR-21. Try SR21 as well. Some people think they are a little sticky in light air. Weight forward and leeward heel should help. Some of them have also been turbo'd with fathead mains and asymmetrical kites I believe there is a fleet in Mississauga.

Don't think any of the designs have an "A" fleet that uses sails for a few regattas or seasons so pre-owned sails are most likely to be very sad when they hit the market.

[Willy T]

Our local sailing gear seller just bought an sr 21. It gets here on the 22nd. It looks like a great boat. They'll sail with 3 people. It doesnt have an asym though.

Sails i think were about 1500 cdn for a 155 and about 3k for a main

[Willy T]

Our local sailing gear seller just bought an sr 21. It gets here on the 22nd. It looks like a great boat. They'll sail with 3 people. It doesnt have an asym though.

Sails i think were about 1500 cdn for a 155 and about 3k for a main

[dolphinmaster]

I'd vote for the SR-21 out of that list unless there is a one-design option in the area for the others.

IIRC the SR-21 is rated at 171, in the ballpark with Wavelength 24 & J/24. PHRF-NW has a 'Tune 20 rated at 237. Didn't see a Catalina 22 listed there.

"Search" may find some old threads on the SR-21. Try SR21 as well. Some people think they are a little sticky in light air. Weight forward and leeward heel should help. Some of them have also been turbo'd with fathead mains and asymmetrical kites I believe there is a fleet in Mississauga.

Don't think any of the designs have an "A" fleet that uses sails for a few regattas or seasons so pre-owned sails are most likely to be very sad when they hit the market.

The SR21 will smoke almost anyboat upwind in the light. Not sticky at all. Good all around boat, phenomenal in many ways, likes to dig the bow in when the breeze is up going down wind. upwind in the heavy, don't try to pinch, open the leech on both sails and foot.

[herbie verstinx]

I am trying to narrow down my search for a small keel-boat and would like some thoughts on these three: Santana 20, Catalina 22 & SR Max 21.

How would these rate in the following:

Best PHRF performer in light to moderate air, flat water, upwind downwind courses, when sailing against larger boats?

Most suitable to sail short handed (lightweight 2 up)?

Most suitable for day sailing?

Availability of decent quality pre-owned sails?

Thanks

Greve de Lecq

add the holder 20 to your list. rates 186 phrf, trailers and sets up easy. lifting keel so it's ramp launchable. i sold mine in december. expect to pay $2500-3000 for an ok one and $4000-5000 race ready. currently one in sailing texas adds.
check out:
http://groups.yahoo..../HOLDER20CLASS/

[Tejano]

All pretty much 4ksb, but the Cat 22 wins the prize for slowest 4ksb.

[saintcnc]

I would recommend the SR Max 21. I've owned one and they are great PHRF boats. You could sail it with 2 but will have better results with 3 on the rail. They also have a lifting keel so you could ramp launch or use a hoist. There used to be a decent size class in the Tampa/Sarasota area and there are a couple for sale at the Sarasota Sailing Squadron.

[Pointy End]

SR Max Without A Doubt!
The hard part's gonna be finding one without a banged up keel & keel box/trunk. Over the years, the only downside to the SR Max has been the keel hoist mechanism. Mechanism = Main Halyard. Find one with a sound or well re-built keel trunk and one that hasn't had the keel dropped through the bottom of the boat. Not sure if there was any build quality difference between the FL built Hendersons and the Canadian built C&Cs. With just 3 of us on the boat, it was a blast outrunning all the J24s, Wavelength 24s, Capri 25s, Olson 25's, etc..etc...

[Winever]

You didn't ask about this boat but in your area they should be available, San Juan 21, rates 252 PHRF. The PHRF fleets(under 200)around here HATE them and jam them into a separate class so not to race against them because in your conditions they win boat for boat.

Best PHRF performer in light to moderate air, flat water, upwind downwind courses, when sailing against larger boats?

Most suitable to sail short handed (lightweight 2 up)?
In those conditions you can sail 2 up in All Sails fleet.

Most suitable for day sailing?
The Mark I has a bigger cockpit than Mark II or III, same hull, same rating.

Availability of decent quality pre-owned sails?
Contact Doyle Inner Banks Sails, Oriental NC, he can hook you up.

Race ready should be $3.5K to $5K.

Cheers Win ever.


Thanks

Greve de Lecq
[/quote]

[U20guy2]

The Tuna guys are fun to race against. And they do well in PHRF when the conditions are light.

[SemiSalt]

Once upon a time, I had a whole bunch of brochures that showed both the Merit 25 and the Merit 22. There are lots a of 25's about and they have a pretty good reputation. I knew a couple who sailed theirs to Hawaii.

The 22 was written up in the late, lamented Small Boat Journal. I know it had a drop keel because they dropped the keel by accident. There was a memorable description of loud noises and the boat bouncing like a thing come alive, but no damage. So it might be a design to look into, but I have not seen a trace of one in 20 years.

I think some of the S2 22-footers had drop keels too.

[Greve de Lecq]

Thanks for your input guys

Win ever...

I didn't mention the San Juan 21 because I 'm not sure if I could handle being last over the line most of the time.
Although I want to race, most of my time on the water will be training and general day sailing and I think that I would prefer something a little "racier"?


This will be my first keel-boat and so I am a little unsure of which way to go.


Thanks again


GdL

[~HHN92~]

Sr 21 max

Absolutely, from that list.

Unless there are OD classes set-up in the area and you would be left out otherwise.


Cabin volume is a little on the slim size, so camping out would be a bit tight.

[~HHN92~]

I'd vote for the SR-21 out of that list unless there is a one-design option in the area for the others.

IIRC the SR-21 is rated at 171, in the ballpark with Wavelength 24 & J/24. PHRF-NW has a 'Tune 20 rated at 237. Didn't see a Catalina 22 listed there.

"Search" may find some old threads on the SR-21. Try SR21 as well. Some people think they are a little sticky in light air. Weight forward and leeward heel should help. Some of them have also been turbo'd with fathead mains and asymmetrical kites I believe there is a fleet in Mississauga.

Don't think any of the designs have an "A" fleet that uses sails for a few regattas or seasons so pre-owned sails are most likely to be very sad when they hit the market.

The SR21 will smoke almost anyboat upwind in the light. Not sticky at all. Good all around boat, phenomenal in many ways, likes to dig the bow in when the breeze is up going down wind. upwind in the heavy, don't try to pinch, open the leech on both sails and foot.

In big breeze downwind you have to have the rig set right (do not remember the combo) but with the halyards exiting the mast at the deck it will pop-it right there if the rig is not 'right'.

I was able to take a 'factory' tour with Glenn one day when they were still building the boats in St. Pete, had a couple of 21's in various stages of production on the floor. Really great guy and always pleasant to 'bench race' with at many regattas from that time on.

[HUNTRACING]

I have Glen Henderson's SR21. Built in Canda by C & C. I know it was his as papers are signed by him. It is also the only one I've seen that has a sprit, to sail both a symetrical and A-symetrical kite. And as it happens, I just bought a Henderson SR27, in addition to the Soverel 33 I also have. In other words, I have too many boats right now and would consider selling my SR21. She is in excellent condition and so are the sails. Has a keel hoist, keel and trunk are in great shape, never dropped as some say happen. I will not give it away like some do, as I know what this boat is capable of. It's a PHRF killer!!!! Sailed on Lake Erie in fresh water out of Buffalo. Also has a trailer which is adjustable to trailer or dry sail.Will destroy a San Juan 21!

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[Steam Flyer]

... ... Will destroy a San Juan 21!

Maybe so, but it's not doing it fast enough.

FB- Doug

[Gouvernail]

I am trying to narrow down my search for a small keel-boat and would like some thoughts on these three: Santana 20, Catalina 22 & SR Max 21.

Each one pretty much sucks unless there is a local floeet.
With the right fleet, any piece of shit with sails can be a hoot.



Go visit teh local place where folks race sailboats and hang around until you figure out which fleet best fits your personality

[TekkaMaki]

Tuna 20's are fun boats for not a lot of cash.
Easy to sail and competitive for PHRF as long as the water is relatively flat.

[SemiSalt]

I saw this one while out at lunchtime.

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[GMiller]

Good Christ, that's a huge outboard for that boat!

[Oxygen Mask]

The Tuna guys are fun to race against. And they do well in PHRF when the conditions are light.

Yep. IF you learn the boat, to the point you are half competitive with the tuna sailors, you can not be beat sailing it in PHRF. And it's a pleasure to sail. Fun boat, inexpensive, lots of competition in the fleets, one year old sails are easy to obtain from the top guys. etc.

...I didn't mention the San Juan 21 because I 'm not sure if I could handle being last over the line most of the time.

Then scratch the Cat22 off the list! It's much slower than the SJ21.

[Jangles13]

I saw this one while out at lunchtime.

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That's an Impulse 21. A fine choice as well, if it sails anything like it's big sister. Well built and under appreciated.

[Great Red Shark]

I saw this one while out at lunchtime.

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Impulse 21 with a MASSIVE outboard ! Lordy, - you could definately wake-board behind that !

A nice boat for sailing in this size-range, but very limited for any dual-use consideration - there is NO interior accomodation beyond storage.

That said, I bought mine to SAIL and enjoy it greatly - had it 5 years now and still have fun everytime I sail it, which is frequently because it's so easy to use. They are all fixed-keel, if that matters ( 3'3" draft) and make an excellent training platform or for sailing short-handed/solo but are not nearly as powered-up as something like a Hotfoot 21 or SR. VERY comfortable to sail, self-tacking and kite-launcher were standard.

[Steam Flyer]

...I didn't mention the San Juan 21 because I 'm not sure if I could handle being last over the line most of the time.

Then scratch the Cat22 off the list! It's much slower than the SJ21.

plus, the Cat22 is a lot heavier and more difficult to trailer as well as being less fun to sail

But a Cat22 will DESTROY a SJ21... if you dropped it on one from about 4 stories up...

FB- Doug

[Great Red Shark]

Actually, the rare-ish fixed keel version on the Catalina 22 is a party machine downwind with a J/24 kite & pole. Frank Butler is a genius of the boat/$ ratio if you want something you can camp aboard.

[amro]

There are a pair of sr21s sitting on trailers at shelter island. From what i am told one needs a keel, but the other is turn key. One white, one blue.

[Greve de Lecq]

Amro

Any idea who to contact re: these SR21s?


GdL

[kmcfast]

Venture 21 the "original sportboat"  kk-203v21-1.jpg   79.36K   11 downloads  venture-21-42784110042554685349695751524549g.jpg   21.36K   10 downloads

[amro]

Amro

Any idea who to contact re: these SR21s?


GdL

Contact shelter island marina

[Winever]

Good Christ, that's a huge outboard for that boat!

Yeah, but the boat comes with a set of ski's....


Cheers, Win ever.