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The big dogs come out to play. Solent J class regatta


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#1 Presuming Ed

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:28 PM

And yay! the great British summer continues to do it's thing.

Would love to be watching these beasts, however. Must be quite a sight.

Photos by Kos. Lots more here: https://www.facebook...60503468&type=1

Attached File  553368_10151044922673469_616138789_n.jpg   71.83K   1044 downloads Attached File  311602_10151044904888469_505990719_n.jpg   34.56K   1284 downloads Attached File  208843_10151044899938469_1684595601_n.jpg   33.77K   1257 downloads Attached File  576158_10151044891678469_515021789_n.jpg   43.16K   1303 downloads Attached File  376497_10151044931543469_440177395_n.jpg   43.17K   1164 downloads

#2 Quirky Torok

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:39 PM

Well I am looking forward to Friday as I will drive the 100 miles down to see what I can see from the shore at Lee on Solent.and take a few photo's.. (best I can do to see these great racing boats) I will of course publish here should they be any good.

Unless some one has a Rib down there with a spare seat???? maybe???? pretty please.... with a cherry on top.... I will bring coffee.. maybe cake too.

#3 us7070

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:01 PM

some fantastic photos on that facebook page

#4 Dawg Gonit

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 04:37 AM

That is a show of Awesome Power.

#5 gybe-ho!

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 07:24 AM

Well I am looking forward to Friday as I will drive the 100 miles down to see what I can see from the shore at Lee on Solent.and take a few photo's.. (best I can do to see these great racing boats) I will of course publish here should they be any good.

Unless some one has a Rib down there with a spare seat???? maybe???? pretty please.... with a cherry on top.... I will bring coffee.. maybe cake too.

Ocean village is pretty cool right now with Lionheart, Velsheda and Ranger, Bystander, Athos and Adela all tied up. You get a pretty good look at the boats when they return from racing and swing off the end of the marina to back onto their berths.

#6 Heavy Woman

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 07:43 AM

Well I am looking forward to Friday as I will drive the 100 miles down to see what I can see from the shore at Lee on Solent.and take a few photo's.. (best I can do to see these great racing boats) I will of course publish here should they be any good.

Unless some one has a Rib down there with a spare seat???? maybe???? pretty please.... with a cherry on top.... I will bring coffee.. maybe cake too.


Unless someone can get you in a RIB you might be better off bringing a radio and listening for where they are positioning, because yesterday you would have seen bugger all from Lee-On-Solent - they were up in the Western Solent where there is a little more room for manoeuvre in the big breeze. You would have been best over towards Beaulieu (sp?) I would agree that popping into Ocean Village is probably worth it for a close up view (walk up onto the Itchen bridge to watch them come in and then have a wander round the dock afterwards) - though I don't think they are all in there - I think Ranger and possibly one other are over in Hythe. Though OV has some other fun things to look at as well - Leopard is in there, and there are other things showing up ready for next week.

Yesterday was fab- though rather wet and bouncy for those of us bobbing about watching - I was amazed at the stern waves those things kick up - just mental - they really are quite something!

HW

#7 moody frog

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 07:59 AM

Awesome !! thanks for the head-up Ed !

#8 Evo

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:02 AM

Awesome !! thanks for the head-up Ed !


add another one to that....well done Ed...any chance of dockside pics?? That sounds like a fantastic sight also.

#9 gybe-ho!

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:26 AM


Awesome !! thanks for the head-up Ed !


add another one to that....well done Ed...any chance of dockside pics?? That sounds like a fantastic sight also.


Will try later...if the f'n rain holds off, been wetter than an otter's pocket here lately!

Velsheda just heading down Southampton Water, a little less sporty today, 13kts showing at the Brambles right now.

#10 gybe-ho!

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:34 AM

Here's the event website:

Clicky

Today they're programmed to race in the Central Solent, starting off the Beaulieu River, but as HW pointed out that can change due to weather.

#11 tuf-luf

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:36 AM

Those cost of those 3Di sails would break the economy of a small African republic!

#12 Heavy Woman

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:36 AM

This was my best effort from yesterday with an iphone and instagram (making even crap photo's look sorta pretty) - the weather was shit, but they were bloody impressive.

Looking forward to a day out watching the Superyacht Cup next week as well - the new Hamilton was out for an early morning test sail yesterday - looking very nice!!

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#13 Evo

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:41 AM



Awesome !! thanks for the head-up Ed !


add another one to that....well done Ed...any chance of dockside pics?? That sounds like a fantastic sight also.


Will try later...if the f'n rain holds off, been wetter than an otter's pocket here lately!

Velsheda just heading down Southampton Water, a little less sporty today, 13kts showing at the Brambles right now.


onya!

wetter than an otter's pocket. Outstanding!!

#14 tuf-luf

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 10:09 AM

This was my best effort from yesterday with an iphone and instagram (making even crap photo's look sorta pretty) - the weather was shit, but they were bloody impressive.

Looking forward to a day out watching the Superyacht Cup next week as well - the new Hamilton was out for an early morning test sail yesterday - looking very nice!!


Lovely image HW!

#15 gybe-ho!

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 11:48 AM

Short report from the start of Race 2


Race 2
Little Report from the water so far...
After a delayed start, whilst the RSYC layed the line and after Ranger had refloated from sticking it on the putty, the 4 boat J fleet, race 2 got under way. Ranger and Velsheda approached the leeward end, but early.

Ranger found herself trapped and had to shoot between the inner distance mark and committee boat. Velsheda crossed 2 seconds early and had to complete a fast bear away jibe to restart. Meanwhile Lionheart and Rainbow made clean starts but Lionheart was fouled by Ranger on port.

After a long beat across the Solent to Solent bank, the rounding order at the top mark was Lionheart followed closely by Rainbow, then some distance behind Velsheda and Ranger. Places were unchanged after the leeward gate.

And Race report from a fresh to frightening Day 1

Race 1
A difficult first day with strong winds and a fierce outgoing tide faced the four yachts at the start of the Solent regatta

A great line up at the gun with Ranger and Velsheda just ahead of Lionheart and Rainbow. Both Lionheart and Rainbow crossed onto the North shore for the long beat into a strong 20 knot SW wind and building sea.

Ranger and Velsheda elected to work the Island shore, where theoutgoing tide was expected to be stronger in their favour.

At the weather mark, now crowded with spectator boats from all around the Solent, Ranger rounded first, with Lionheart close behind, followed by Rainbow and Velsheda, who had slipped back. Ranger gybe set onto a symmetrical kite whilst Lionheart split from her with a bearaway set onto an assymetric kite. Ranger now drew ahead sailing best angles into the foul tide with the symmetrical.

The gap between the yachts never really opened up significantly and all boats crossed the line within 137 seconds. Finishing positions across the line were unaltered by the very small handicaps that apply to each individual yacht, to account for small performance differences.

1st Ranger
2nd Lionheart
3rd Rainbow
4th Velsheda

#16 gybe-ho!

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:21 PM

Race 2 Results

Boat Finish Elapsed TCF Position
1 Ranger 13:30:32 2:20:32 1.015 1
2 Lionheart 13:30:44 2:20:44 1.021 2
3 Rainbow 13:31:51 2:21:51 1.020 3
4 Velsheda 13:32:49 2:22:49 1.015 4

#17 'moondance44

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:48 PM

That is a show of Awesome Power.

'
WOW some of thse spin shots are impressive

I cant imagine trying to get one of those big bastards down the hatch.

#18 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 02:18 PM

If the America's Cup went back to J-Boats it would be 10,000 times better than what we have now!

#19 Presuming Ed

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 03:31 PM

Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

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Kos again.

#20 The Main Man

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 03:41 PM

^^ Oops! Even the best can get Gurnard wrong!

#21 gybe-ho!

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 04:08 PM

A few of the boats returning to the dock in Ocean Village

Posted Image
Velsheda

Posted Image
Velsheda

Posted Image
Ranger

Posted Image
Lionheart

#22 Trickypig

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:55 PM

I can't see any boom vangs... must be a lot of pressure on this spreaders.

#23 Great Red Shark

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:59 PM

Wonder why Endeavour isn't there ?

I agree the America's Cup would be more compelling in these massive macnines.

#24 Lostmydetailsagain

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:09 AM

Race 2 1 Results

Boat Finish Elapsed TCF Position
1 Ranger 13:30:32 2:20:32 1.015 1
2 Lionheart 13:30:44 2:20:44 1.021 2
3 Rainbow 13:31:51 2:21:51 1.020 3
4 Velsheda 13:32:49 2:22:49 1.015 4


Those are the R1 results:


Race 2:

Yacht Race Time TCF Times secs Corrected secs Position


1 Velsheda 2:15:42 1.015 8142 8264,1 1
2 Lionheart 2:14:59 1.021 8099 8269.1 2
3 Rainbow 2:15:49 1.020 8149 9312.0 3
4 Ranger 2:18:10 1.015 8290 8414.4 4



#25 hotelwallyfornia

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 06:12 AM

Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

Attached File  524261_10151046735003469_1387081702_n.jpg   48.92K   992 downloads Attached File  181164_10151046737083469_291568405_n.jpg   59.2K   1371 downloads Attached File  576219_10151046736558469_565251545_n.jpg   59.32K   1312 downloads

Kos again.



Isn't that the same bit of Gurnard Ledge where Harold Cudmore sank Jameson in the (?) 1994 Admiral's Cup ?

#26 gybe-ho!

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:18 AM


Race 2 1 Results

Boat Finish Elapsed TCF Position
1 Ranger 13:30:32 2:20:32 1.015 1
2 Lionheart 13:30:44 2:20:44 1.021 2
3 Rainbow 13:31:51 2:21:51 1.020 3
4 Velsheda 13:32:49 2:22:49 1.015 4


Those are the R1 results:


Race 2:

Yacht Race Time TCF Times secs Corrected secs Position


1 Velsheda 2:15:42 1.015 8142 8264,1 1
2 Lionheart 2:14:59 1.021 8099 8269.1 2
3 Rainbow 2:15:49 1.020 8149 9312.0 3
4 Ranger 2:18:10 1.015 8290 8414.4 4


Well caught, my bad.

#27 cms

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 07:48 AM


Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

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Kos again.



Isn't that the same bit of Gurnard Ledge where Harold Cudmore sank Jameson in the (?) 1994 Admiral's Cup ?

Yup .... King of Norway was a bit pissed off. Seen a few scalps that rock. Embarassed me twice!

#28 TMG

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:17 AM

Does anyone know the start times for the races this weekend? Was hoping to head over to the island to check out the action but struggling to find any information.

Will get some photos onto the page if I manage to get out and see the race from a decent spot.

#29 Across the Pond

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:27 AM

Wonder why Endeavour isn't there ?

I agree the America's Cup would be more compelling in these massive macnines.


There is a brief mention of Endeavour in the latest issue of Yachting World. They were due to attend but pulled out at the last minute to go cruising in Croatia instead.

#30 KiwiJoker

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:34 AM


Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

Attached File  524261_10151046735003469_1387081702_n.jpg   48.92K   992 downloads Attached File  181164_10151046737083469_291568405_n.jpg   59.2K   1371 downloads Attached File  576219_10151046736558469_565251545_n.jpg   59.32K   1312 downloads

Kos again.



Isn't that the same bit of Gurnard Ledge where Harold Cudmore sank Jameson in the (?) 1994 Admiral's Cup ?


Resulting in that memorable "Jameson on the Rocks" headline!

#31 Bast

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:36 AM

I can't see any boom vangs... must be a lot of pressure on this spreaders.


Boom vangs are not allowed by J class rules. They do have downhalls for reaching and downwind though.

#32 Presuming Ed

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 09:03 AM

Does anyone know the start times for the races this weekend? Was hoping to head over to the island to check out the action but struggling to find any information.


http://www.jclasssolentregatta.com/


Hundred Guinea Cup Race
Saturday 21st JulyStart 10.40 - 75 nm RYS Line, Cowes

(AIUI, the plan it for a clockwise race round the island, if weather permits)

#33 TMG

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 09:14 AM

Does anyone know the start times for the races this weekend? Was hoping to head over to the island to check out the action but struggling to find any information.


http://www.jclasssolentregatta.com/


Hundred Guinea Cup Race
Saturday 21st JulyStart 10.40 - 75 nm RYS Line, Cowes

(AIUI, the plan it for a clockwise race round the island, if weather permits)


Thanks for that! I'll get out there and (hopefully) get close to the boats tomorrow. Can't wait!

#34 Anti-idiots

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:03 AM

Backround doesnt look like Gurnard Bay. You 100% sure its Gurnard? Looks further west in the Solent!


Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

Attached File  524261_10151046735003469_1387081702_n.jpg   48.92K   992 downloads Attached File  181164_10151046737083469_291568405_n.jpg   59.2K   1371 downloads Attached File  576219_10151046736558469_565251545_n.jpg   59.32K   1312 downloads

Kos again.



#35 JL92S

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:13 AM


Wonder why Endeavour isn't there ?

I agree the America's Cup would be more compelling in these massive macnines.


There is a brief mention of Endeavour in the latest issue of Yachting World. They were due to attend but pulled out at the last minute to go cruising in Croatia instead.

Word on the street is that the owner had heard rumours that rainbow was devastatingly fast and didn't like the option of losing, shame because after a 3Di set of sails, pro crew and a multi million dollar 18 month refit to bring it up to the racing standard of ranger and velsheda, it was pulled out of racing, I hear some crew were in tears…What a spanner

#36 learningj24

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:33 AM

Pity these aren't in the America's Cup. THAT would be worth watching.

#37 Gunny

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:10 PM

Running aground on Gurnard Ledge is easy. Catching the main power cable that runs to IOW with your anchor, that is stuff of legends!

#38 Presuming Ed

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:17 PM

Word on the street is that the owner had heard rumours that rainbow was devastatingly fast and didn't like the option of losing, shame because after a 3Di set of sails, pro crew and a multi million dollar 18 month refit to bring it up to the racing standard of ranger and velsheda, it was pulled out of racing, I hear some crew were in tears…What a spanner


Sounds very toys and prams. Or rather, I'm going to take my ball and go home. Wimp.

#39 chorus1

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:18 PM

And yay! the great British summer continues to do it's thing.

Would love to be watching these beasts, however. Must be quite a sight.

Photos by Kos. Lots more here: https://www.facebook...60503468&type=1

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Tx Ed.

These beats better look like submarines when windy :(
BTW think they are quicker than oldies because sails and rig with carbon fiber :)

#40 mad

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:04 PM


Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

Attached File  524261_10151046735003469_1387081702_n.jpg   48.92K   992 downloads Attached File  181164_10151046737083469_291568405_n.jpg   59.2K   1371 downloads Attached File  576219_10151046736558469_565251545_n.jpg   59.32K   1312 downloads

Kos again.



Isn't that the same bit of Gurnard Ledge where Harold Cudmore sank Jameson in the (?) 1994 Admiral's Cup ?

That's the one, pretty much the whole one ton fleet followed him as well :P

#41 mad

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:39 PM

Backround doesnt look like Gurnard Bay. You 100% sure its Gurnard? Looks further west in the Solent!



Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

Attached File  524261_10151046735003469_1387081702_n.jpg   48.92K   992 downloads Attached File  181164_10151046737083469_291568405_n.jpg   59.2K   1371 downloads Attached File  576219_10151046736558469_565251545_n.jpg   59.32K   1312 downloads

Kos again.

You can always take a day off from being an idiot you know

#42 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:20 PM

Wonder why Endeavour isn't there ?

I agree the America's Cup would be more compelling in these massive macnines.

In 30 knots of breeze, absolutely. Nothing better than topmasts crashing into the sea and hull seams opening up.

In 10 knots, you'd put everyone except the nerdiest traditionalist into a coma.

Go watch 12 meters racing in light air. Maybe interesting once upon a time, excruciating now.



Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

Attached File  524261_10151046735003469_1387081702_n.jpg   48.92K   992 downloads Attached File  181164_10151046737083469_291568405_n.jpg   59.2K   1371 downloads Attached File  576219_10151046736558469_565251545_n.jpg   59.32K   1312 downloads

Kos again.



Isn't that the same bit of Gurnard Ledge where Harold Cudmore sank Jameson in the (?) 1994 Admiral's Cup ?

That's the one, pretty much the whole one ton fleet followed him as well :P

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#43 mad

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:45 PM


Wonder why Endeavour isn't there ?

I agree the America's Cup would be more compelling in these massive macnines.

In 30 knots of breeze, absolutely. Nothing better than topmasts crashing into the sea and hull seams opening up.

In 10 knots, you'd put everyone except the nerdiest traditionalist into a coma.

Go watch 12 meters racing in light air. Maybe interesting once upon a time, excruciating now.



Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

Attached File  524261_10151046735003469_1387081702_n.jpg   48.92K   992 downloads Attached File  181164_10151046737083469_291568405_n.jpg   59.2K   1371 downloads Attached File  576219_10151046736558469_565251545_n.jpg   59.32K   1312 downloads

Kos again.



Isn't that the same bit of Gurnard Ledge where Harold Cudmore sank Jameson in the (?) 1994 Admiral's Cup ?

That's the one, pretty much the whole one ton fleet followed him as well :P

Not sure what that has to do with Jameson on the rocks.

But

15 minutes before the intended start-time, the mighty white Ranger went hard aground on the ledge off the island side near Thorness

#44 Dramling

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:14 PM

Pity these aren't in the America's Cup. THAT would be worth watching.


I had the pleasure of doing race committee work when Ranger and Velsheda were in Newport for the Bucket last summer. They had a practice race although the full event was canceled due to Hurricane Irene and certainly went at each other. I was on mark set, so I could follow them for a good portion of the race and, though there was technically a 40m "keep-away" zone around each boat, they cut that out pretty quickly. The last beat was pure old fashioned match racing complete with slam dunks and luffing battles with 20-25 feet between the boats. Seeing those two beautiful massive boats go head to head like that was certainly not boring.

#45 gybe-ho!

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:53 PM

Race 3 Official Results now in:

1st = Velsheda
2nd = Ranger
3rd = Lionheart
4th = Rainbow

QUEENS CUP OVERALL RESULTS

1st = Velsheda
2nd = Ranger
3rd = Lionheart
4th = Rainbow

Short report from the Website:

After a delayed start the fleet got away cleanly with Velsheda first at the port end and Ranger last off at the starboard end.

At the first leeward mark, Solent Bank, Velsheda had a commanding lead followed by Rainbow, Lionheart and Ranger.

At the second leeward mark Velsheda was still leading but Rainbow, still behind Lionheart called for an overlap and forced Lionheart to give her inside rounding, so Rainbow came through to 2nd.

The finish, which should be about 2.30 p.m., will be off Egypt Point, Cowes giving another spectacular finish, as was enjoyed yesterday by the crowds who got there in time.

#46 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:47 PM

I would rather watch 12 meters too than the idiocy we have now.
IMHO and all........


Wonder why Endeavour isn't there ?

I agree the America's Cup would be more compelling in these massive macnines.

In 30 knots of breeze, absolutely. Nothing better than topmasts crashing into the sea and hull seams opening up.

In 10 knots, you'd put everyone except the nerdiest traditionalist into a coma.

Go watch 12 meters racing in light air. Maybe interesting once upon a time, excruciating now.



Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

Attached File  524261_10151046735003469_1387081702_n.jpg   48.92K   992 downloads Attached File  181164_10151046737083469_291568405_n.jpg   59.2K   1371 downloads Attached File  576219_10151046736558469_565251545_n.jpg   59.32K   1312 downloads

Kos again.



Isn't that the same bit of Gurnard Ledge where Harold Cudmore sank Jameson in the (?) 1994 Admiral's Cup ?

That's the one, pretty much the whole one ton fleet followed him as well :P



#47 Winever

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:11 PM

+1

#48 snake

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:21 PM

That would be 1993... Wally

#49 mad

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:59 PM

That would be 1993... Wally

Good catch :D

#50 umpire

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 06:12 PM

Running aground on Gurnard Ledge is easy. Catching the main power cable that runs to IOW with your anchor, that is stuff of legends!

Did that during the 81 Admirals Cup, when the cable came up the anchor I left the foredeck, I left asap

#51 umpire

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 06:41 PM

Went out and watched the J's finish at Cowes. Amazing sight, four of them. With kites up, bathed in sunshine and trailed by a huge spectator fleet.
Will try and get photos of my phone and post them.
Looking forward to seeing them again whe the weather is due to be better.

Also saw the new Wally 100 Hamilton from about 30 ft, she is one bit of kit

#52 oatsandbeans

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:58 PM

Backround doesnt look like Gurnard Bay. You 100% sure its Gurnard? Looks further west in the Solent!

I agree it doesn't look like gurnard ledge possibly the next one west quarry ledge is a better bet.


Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

Attached File  524261_10151046735003469_1387081702_n.jpg   48.92K   992 downloads Attached File  181164_10151046737083469_291568405_n.jpg   59.2K   1371 downloads Attached File  576219_10151046736558469_565251545_n.jpg   59.32K   1312 downloads

Kos again.



#53 postpast

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:32 AM

You could show me the lasest & greatest. and ya the're better then a J boat,,,, in some ways.



#54 Anti-idiots

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:49 AM

If you know the solent at all, there would be houses in the back round of that picture. Plus the fact it allegedly happened prestart in the Western Solent NOT on Gurnard!


Backround doesnt look like Gurnard Bay. You 100% sure its Gurnard? Looks further west in the Solent!



Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

Attached File  524261_10151046735003469_1387081702_n.jpg   48.92K   992 downloads Attached File  181164_10151046737083469_291568405_n.jpg   59.2K   1371 downloads Attached File  576219_10151046736558469_565251545_n.jpg   59.32K   1312 downloads

Kos again.

You can always take a day off from being an idiot you know



#55 Red Dragon

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:01 PM

A LOT of us are not going to be that interested in this new generation America's Cup because we simply can not relate. Period. So they can go do their giant multi thing and that's fine and dandy, but for those of us who grew up sailing more traditional mono-hulled boats this kind of thing (the J-class event) is usually going to be a lot more interesting and exciting to watch.

Simply put, I would drive a long distance and pay someone to take me out on a powerboat to watch these J's go at it. I would not do that for the AC class multi's. Not one bit of it.

RD

#56 davidprobable

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:08 PM

A LOT of us are not going to be that interested in this new generation America's Cup because we simply can not relate. Period. So they can go do their giant multi thing and that's fine and dandy, but for those of us who grew up sailing more traditional mono-hulled boats this kind of thing (the J-class event) is usually going to be a lot more interesting and exciting to watch.

Simply put, I would drive a long distance and pay someone to take me out on a powerboat to watch these J's go at it. I would not do that for the AC class multi's. Not one bit of it.

RD




Here! here!..........should be said more often..........the J's represent the gut feeling of the real America"s Cup.......if only it could take place in Newport RI sailing life would have returned to perfect.

#57 Carboninit

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 06:44 AM

Backround doesnt look like Gurnard Bay. You 100% sure its Gurnard? Looks further west in the Solent!



Ranger on Gurnard Ledge. Bit of an oops by the nav.

Attached File  524261_10151046735003469_1387081702_n.jpg   48.92K   992 downloads Attached File  181164_10151046737083469_291568405_n.jpg   59.2K   1371 downloads Attached File  576219_10151046736558469_565251545_n.jpg   59.32K   1312 downloads

Kos again.


Its not Gurnard its The start of Thorness Bay and yes they are boring to watch. More excitment watching the new Wally one design.

#58 moody frog

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 08:12 AM


Word on the street is that the owner had heard rumours that rainbow was devastatingly fast and didn't like the option of losing, shame because after a 3Di set of sails, pro crew and a multi million dollar 18 month refit to bring it up to the racing standard of ranger and velsheda, it was pulled out of racing, I hear some crew were in tears…What a spanner


Sounds very toys and prams. Or rather, I'm going to take my ball and go home. Wimp.


yeah the crew blah blah ( sorry ,simon, carol, kat , luke and bianca +some more ) what about the people ( me! )that did that refit from start to finish. lugging 9 tons of sand in and out of that thing ( sandblasting ) and ALL the blood sweet and more blood was most definately worth it. ... i put down every single piece of deck gear on that boat including all that titanium and those MASSIVE triple geared harken 11 45s..... sail trials, the lot..... to be told that it wasn't doing the solent regatta was a bit of a downer but i can tell you now and you better believe it , it was definately not a case of " I'm going to take my ball and go home. Wimp." full blown racing will f**k up a j-class . we put some serious reinforceing in that bow of endeavour and it was still twisting like ya mum at a disco. mr cassio loves his boat so much that he put 20M + into that boat.. to keep it alive for another 20 years . in the state that JK4 came into the yard it probably wouldn't have lasted a trip back across the pacific .

so before i start to get the red haze come over me at Joe blog for trying to have his 5 cents worths in something he most probably has no idea about i say check out the results from st barths buddy.. fresh out the box. they only made it there the night before the first race and had a winning margin of 3 mins and 40 seconds over ranger..
anyhow check out the pic of me standing in JK4 keel deeper than sir tom sopwith probably ever went, ever! and another of our sea friends playing along side



Thks for accurate info Dirty !

Seems that the class has a problem, as I had read in the reports that while the replicas had 3DI Velsheda was still 3DL because "old J's deck and structure would not take the loads" was the comment.
More generally an interesting info about 3DI.

#59 Presuming Ed

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:08 PM

If you know the solent at all, there would be houses in the back round of that picture.


Not so much at the western end of the ledge.
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#60 Presuming Ed

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 01:57 PM

And Saturday's start.

Posted Image


ETA: Rick Tomlinson this time. http://www.rick-tomlinson.com/

#61 Ajax

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:01 PM

And Saturday's start.

Posted Image


My God, that is an inspirational sight. Real "Master and Commander" stuff.

#62 Activator

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 02:32 PM


And Saturday's start.

Posted Image


My God, that is an inspirational sight. Real "Master and Commander" stuff.


Spectators were asked not to cross in front of the fleet when racing because even these monsters are affected by wash. Wonder who that is tracking across the bows? Not me anyway.

#63 rigguy

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:37 PM

Running aground on Gurnard Ledge is easy. Catching the main power cable that runs to IOW with your anchor, that is stuff of legends!

Isn't it easier to get off???
It just kinda melts off doen't it???

#64 Dirty technique

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 06:16 AM



Word on the street is that the owner had heard rumours that rainbow was devastatingly fast and didn't like the option of losing, shame because after a 3Di set of sails, pro crew and a multi million dollar 18 month refit to bring it up to the racing standard of ranger and velsheda, it was pulled out of racing, I hear some crew were in tears…What a spanner


Sounds very toys and prams. Or rather, I'm going to take my ball and go home. Wimp.


yeah the crew blah blah ( sorry ,simon, carol, kat , luke and bianca +some more ) what about the people ( me! )that did that refit from start to finish. lugging 9 tons of sand in and out of that thing ( sandblasting ) and ALL the blood sweet and more blood was most definately worth it. ... i put down every single piece of deck gear on that boat including all that titanium and those MASSIVE triple geared harken 11 45s..... sail trials, the lot..... to be told that it wasn't doing the solent regatta was a bit of a downer but i can tell you now and you better believe it , it was definately not a case of " I'm going to take my ball and go home. Wimp." full blown racing will f**k up a j-class . we put some serious reinforceing in that bow of endeavour and it was still twisting like ya mum at a disco. mr cassio loves his boat so much that he put 20M + into that boat.. to keep it alive for another 20 years . in the state that JK4 came into the yard it probably wouldn't have lasted a trip back across the pacific .

so before i start to get the red haze come over me at Joe blog for trying to have his 5 cents worths in something he most probably has no idea about i say check out the results from st barths buddy.. fresh out the box. they only made it there the night before the first race and had a winning margin of 3 mins and 40 seconds over ranger..
anyhow check out the pic of me standing in JK4 keel deeper than sir tom sopwith probably ever went, ever! and another of our sea friends playing along side



Thks for accurate info Dirty !

Seems that the class has a problem, as I had read in the reports that while the replicas had 3DI Velsheda was still 3DL because "old J's deck and structure would not take the loads" was the comment.
More generally an interesting info about 3DI.


hey i don't know how much i can say . but jk4 had its foredeck totally flushed off with a serious amount of the steel super structure stengthened if not replaced. i wouldn't be superised if they all twist somehow tho because the loads on those overhanges is massive

#65 moody frog

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 07:42 AM




Word on the street is that the owner had heard rumours that rainbow was devastatingly fast and didn't like the option of losing, shame because after a 3Di set of sails, pro crew and a multi million dollar 18 month refit to bring it up to the racing standard of ranger and velsheda, it was pulled out of racing, I hear some crew were in tears…What a spanner


Sounds very toys and prams. Or rather, I'm going to take my ball and go home. Wimp.


yeah the crew blah blah ( sorry ,simon, carol, kat , luke and bianca +some more ) what about the people ( me! )that did that refit from start to finish. lugging 9 tons of sand in and out of that thing ( sandblasting ) and ALL the blood sweet and more blood was most definately worth it. ... i put down every single piece of deck gear on that boat including all that titanium and those MASSIVE triple geared harken 11 45s..... sail trials, the lot..... to be told that it wasn't doing the solent regatta was a bit of a downer but i can tell you now and you better believe it , it was definately not a case of " I'm going to take my ball and go home. Wimp." full blown racing will f**k up a j-class . we put some serious reinforceing in that bow of endeavour and it was still twisting like ya mum at a disco. mr cassio loves his boat so much that he put 20M + into that boat.. to keep it alive for another 20 years . in the state that JK4 came into the yard it probably wouldn't have lasted a trip back across the pacific .

so before i start to get the red haze come over me at Joe blog for trying to have his 5 cents worths in something he most probably has no idea about i say check out the results from st barths buddy.. fresh out the box. they only made it there the night before the first race and had a winning margin of 3 mins and 40 seconds over ranger..
anyhow check out the pic of me standing in JK4 keel deeper than sir tom sopwith probably ever went, ever! and another of our sea friends playing along side



Thks for accurate info Dirty !

Seems that the class has a problem, as I had read in the reports that while the replicas had 3DI Velsheda was still 3DL because "old J's deck and structure would not take the loads" was the comment.
More generally an interesting info about 3DI.


hey i don't know how much i can say . but jk4 had its foredeck totally flushed off with a serious amount of the steel super structure stengthened if not replaced. i wouldn't be superised if they all twist somehow tho because the loads on those overhanges is massive


Thks ;) got us thinking twice on non-J problems.

#66 Dirty technique

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 05:37 AM

look at firefly. the forestay and backstay are well inside the overhangs to avoid this twisting ( or thats what makes sense to me ). the loads while broadreaching / running are nothing compared to closehauled but then again firefly is only 60tons compared with 178.

#67 moody frog

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:45 AM

look at firefly. the forestay and backstay are well inside the overhangs to avoid this twisting ( or thats what makes sense to me ). the loads while broadreaching / running are nothing compared to closehauled but then again firefly is only 60tons compared with 178.


Clear ! I guess it all comes down to designers and engineers designing to the forces they expect a part/section of the boat to be submitted to.
When new techniques bring these forces well over what had been originally expected .... shapes and engineering are challenged, and on the Js one can improve engineering but geometry is here to stay.
Looking at day 1 of the Solent cup, I doubt the pre WW II J's would have raced and/or sailed under full sail; strong chances masts could have tumbled down, too.

#68 Presuming Ed

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 09:06 AM

IIRC, in the 30s the Js gave up at about 15 kts.

#69 mad

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:34 PM

If you know the solent at all, there would be houses in the back round of that picture.


Not so much at the western end of the ledge.
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Good thing idiot isn't calling the shots in the Solent. :o

#70 akasideshow

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 03:08 PM

IIRC, in the 30s the Js gave up at about 15 kts.


how old are you?

#71 MidPack

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 05:49 PM

Me and the warden got to sail on Shamrock V on Narragansett Bay from Newport one beautiful Sept afternoon when IYRS "owned" her. We even got to drive her upwind for about 5 minutes each. Nothing else like it in sailing, that I'll ever have access to anyway...

#72 chorus1

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:18 PM


look at firefly. the forestay and backstay are well inside the overhangs to avoid this twisting ( or thats what makes sense to me ). the loads while broadreaching / running are nothing compared to closehauled but then again firefly is only 60tons compared with 178.


Clear ! I guess it all comes down to designers and engineers designing to the forces they expect a part/section of the boat to be submitted to.
When new techniques bring these forces well over what had been originally expected .... shapes and engineering are challenged, and on the Js one can improve engineering but geometry is here to stay.
Looking at day 1 of the Solent cup, I doubt the pre WW II J's would have raced and/or sailed under full sail; strong chances masts could have tumbled down, too.


OK moody but even with stronger new sails, with the same stiff keel, forces will be about the same on the hull because, the only difference ll be the boat to heel some more, no ? No stiffer Class J boat , no problem with new forces no ?

#73 ~HHN92~

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:40 AM



look at firefly. the forestay and backstay are well inside the overhangs to avoid this twisting ( or thats what makes sense to me ). the loads while broadreaching / running are nothing compared to closehauled but then again firefly is only 60tons compared with 178.


Clear ! I guess it all comes down to designers and engineers designing to the forces they expect a part/section of the boat to be submitted to.
When new techniques bring these forces well over what had been originally expected .... shapes and engineering are challenged, and on the Js one can improve engineering but geometry is here to stay.
Looking at day 1 of the Solent cup, I doubt the pre WW II J's would have raced and/or sailed under full sail; strong chances masts could have tumbled down, too.


OK moody but even with stronger new sails, with the same stiff keel, forces will be about the same on the hull because, the only difference ll be the boat to heel some more, no ? No stiffer Class J boat , no problem with new forces no ?


I think the old baggy cotton duck sails did not generate the same 'impact' loading the new firm sails do when a gust hits,' let's say. The sails, the sheets, etc. would 'give' before loading the boat at a lower rate than these sails that do not 'give' as much. so, more stress to account for.

#74 Dirty technique

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:46 AM

day 1 sailing trails on jk4 loading the main onto the track and it was up to 23kn at masthead. the old would definately have gone bag along time ago but remember that all of the ORIGINAL 3 have had such major amounts of work done them that they handle it. they used to snap mast like willy back in the 30's but now the boats and rigs are sooooo much stronger..

by is any1 after endeavours old mast ,its still siting outside the yard . boom, jocky , mast no mast step tho,. ( the maststep alone was 106kg ). it would look great as a letter box

#75 moody frog

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:58 AM



look at firefly. the forestay and backstay are well inside the overhangs to avoid this twisting ( or thats what makes sense to me ). the loads while broadreaching / running are nothing compared to closehauled but then again firefly is only 60tons compared with 178.


Clear ! I guess it all comes down to designers and engineers designing to the forces they expect a part/section of the boat to be submitted to.
When new techniques bring these forces well over what had been originally expected .... shapes and engineering are challenged, and on the Js one can improve engineering but geometry is here to stay.
Looking at day 1 of the Solent cup, I doubt the pre WW II J's would have raced and/or sailed under full sail; strong chances masts could have tumbled down, too.


OK moody but even with stronger new sails, with the same stiff keel, forces will be about the same on the hull because, the only difference ll be the boat to heel some more, no ? No stiffer Class J boat , no problem with new forces no ?


As far as i understand it, if, previously, part of the power imposed on the rig dissipated through sails "bagging and opening" and/or mast leeward bend, the ultimate forces transmitted to the hull via the rigging stalled at a given limit.
These boats have a huge RM and now, with stiffer/stronger masts & rigging + stiffer sails, transmitted forces can only increase and while the lead copes with it, the next weaker link (between wind-force and lead-keel) has to reach its deformation point.

Dirty is, of course, right: these old boats have been enormously improved, designers did extensive and sophisticated work on figures and loads. Now my questioning which goes beyond Js is the increase in loads just by going from 3DL to 3DI. I was guessing that Js RM was somehow quite exceptional and that % differences may show more clearly. Just armchair reflexion I guess.

#76 DickDastardly

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:12 PM




look at firefly. the forestay and backstay are well inside the overhangs to avoid this twisting ( or thats what makes sense to me ). the loads while broadreaching / running are nothing compared to closehauled but then again firefly is only 60tons compared with 178.


Clear ! I guess it all comes down to designers and engineers designing to the forces they expect a part/section of the boat to be submitted to.
When new techniques bring these forces well over what had been originally expected .... shapes and engineering are challenged, and on the Js one can improve engineering but geometry is here to stay.
Looking at day 1 of the Solent cup, I doubt the pre WW II J's would have raced and/or sailed under full sail; strong chances masts could have tumbled down, too.


OK moody but even with stronger new sails, with the same stiff keel, forces will be about the same on the hull because, the only difference ll be the boat to heel some more, no ? No stiffer Class J boat , no problem with new forces no ?


As far as i understand it, if, previously, part of the power imposed on the rig dissipated through sails "bagging and opening" and/or mast leeward bend, the ultimate forces transmitted to the hull via the rigging stalled at a given limit.
These boats have a huge RM and now, with stiffer/stronger masts & rigging + stiffer sails, transmitted forces can only increase and while the lead copes with it, the next weaker link (between wind-force and lead-keel) has to reach its deformation point.

Dirty is, of course, right: these old boats have been enormously improved, designers did extensive and sophisticated work on figures and loads. Now my questioning which goes beyond Js is the increase in loads just by going from 3DL to 3DI. I was guessing that Js RM was somehow quite exceptional and that % differences may show more clearly. Just armchair reflexion I guess.

RM is RM for any given boat. The load to tilt it X degrees is the same no matter what type of sails are up. Centre of Gravity for Hanuman is probably lower than Endeavour 2's was, so given their lines are identical - and assuming they float to the same DWL then heeling moment and rig induced loads on Hanuman will be higher for a given heel angle. If old style sail and rig packages dissipated load then yes that would limit sail induced heeling force, but their aerodynamic drag was probably higher than the modern rigs and the proportion of sail force converted to forward motion would have been far lower.

Supporting Moody's point - what might be different with the newer sail technologies is gust response and how rapidly rig and sheet loads change with wind speed variances as a function of how much the sails stretch in response to gusts.

Of course newer and stronger rigs and sails can also usefully be wound up to much tighter shroud and forestay tensions so the base bending loads on the structures are possibly far higher than they were back in the day.

#77 Quirky Torok

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:39 PM

I came across this Video on YouTube.. Fascinating to see Valsheda




If you've seen it before or the link has been put up before it's always worth another look.

#78 moody frog

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 04:27 PM





look at firefly. the forestay and backstay are well inside the overhangs to avoid this twisting ( or thats what makes sense to me ). the loads while broadreaching / running are nothing compared to closehauled but then again firefly is only 60tons compared with 178.


Clear ! I guess it all comes down to designers and engineers designing to the forces they expect a part/section of the boat to be submitted to.
When new techniques bring these forces well over what had been originally expected .... shapes and engineering are challenged, and on the Js one can improve engineering but geometry is here to stay.
Looking at day 1 of the Solent cup, I doubt the pre WW II J's would have raced and/or sailed under full sail; strong chances masts could have tumbled down, too.


OK moody but even with stronger new sails, with the same stiff keel, forces will be about the same on the hull because, the only difference ll be the boat to heel some more, no ? No stiffer Class J boat , no problem with new forces no ?


As far as i understand it, if, previously, part of the power imposed on the rig dissipated through sails "bagging and opening" and/or mast leeward bend, the ultimate forces transmitted to the hull via the rigging stalled at a given limit.
These boats have a huge RM and now, with stiffer/stronger masts & rigging + stiffer sails, transmitted forces can only increase and while the lead copes with it, the next weaker link (between wind-force and lead-keel) has to reach its deformation point.

Dirty is, of course, right: these old boats have been enormously improved, designers did extensive and sophisticated work on figures and loads. Now my questioning which goes beyond Js is the increase in loads just by going from 3DL to 3DI. I was guessing that Js RM was somehow quite exceptional and that % differences may show more clearly. Just armchair reflexion I guess.

RM is RM for any given boat. The load to tilt it X degrees is the same no matter what type of sails are up. Centre of Gravity for Hanuman is probably lower than Endeavour 2's was, so given their lines are identical - and assuming they float to the same DWL then heeling moment and rig induced loads on Hanuman will be higher for a given heel angle. If old style sail and rig packages dissipated load then yes that would limit sail induced heeling force, but their aerodynamic drag was probably higher than the modern rigs and the proportion of sail force converted to forward motion would have been far lower.

Supporting Moody's point - what might be different with the newer sail technologies is gust response and how rapidly rig and sheet loads change with wind speed variances as a function of how much the sails stretch in response to gusts.

Of course newer and stronger rigs and sails can also usefully be wound up to much tighter shroud and forestay tensions so the base bending loads on the structures are possibly far higher than they were back in the day.


Exactly what I was trying to point out, thanks.




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