84 replies to this topic

[Atilla The Hun]

So what do the Anarchist's think of the Baveria B one? Link

[puffyjman]

Great another mid 20ft asym. sport boat... can't have too many of them.

BTW is it supposed to be called "B/one" or BONE?!?

[MR.CLEAN]

Technical data: Hull length 7.00 m

Beam 2.49 m

Draft 1.60 m lift keel down

Mainsail 21 m²

Jib 11 m²

Gennaker 46 m² still provisional

Weight approx. 1.020 kg empty

Ballast 370 kg

[Great Red Shark]

Thats 22.75 feet to the metric-challenged, and 2,244 lbs, so kinda chunky - no ?

I like new/different designs but HAVE to ask, "This is better than the M24 how ?"


Oooooooh, it's got chines.....

[DRIFTW00D]

Rigged for trolling too. Fish onnnnnnnnnn!!

[Christian]

Technical data: Hull length 7.00 m

Beam 2.49 m

Draft 1.60 m lift keel down

Mainsail 21 m²

Jib 11 m²

Gennaker 46 m² still provisional

Weight approx. 1.020 kg empty

Ballast 370 kg

Those numbers should actually get it removed from the SB forum.........................

[Terrorvision]

That centre mainsheet system looks very short along the boom.

[dogwatch]

"This is better than the M24 how ?"

Half the price would be the standard Bavaria sales proposition.

[ZeusProject]

Sounds and looks like another boat the rest of the fleet has to wait for before starting the next race.

[ZeusProject]

7 meters and 1 tonne fuck me what's it made of

[Mojounwin]

7 meters and 1 tonne fuck me what's it made of

Ferrocement?



Cheers
Mojo

[Jerryd]

7 meters and 1 tonne fuck me what's it made of

Ferrocement?



Cheers
Mojo

Heavy for sure, but deck mounted sprit and cassette rudder are cool.

[Peacefrog]

Is it really another Farr? Kind of fugly like the Farr 400.

[Steam Flyer]

"This is better than the M24 how ?"

Half the price would be the standard Bavaria sales proposition.

"Not a super-tweaky torture box" would also be an improvement.

Agreed it's not likely to have sportsboat performance but it could still be fun to sail.

FB- Doug

[Schnick]

Well, the guys who Melges-hike this boat are still going to be miles faster than the guys who don't.

Going upwind it looks sort of like it is closer to the original '80s Pocket Rocket than the current Rocket 22!

I thought it was silly that Bavaria was originally saying that the Farr office assured them this boat would have "Melges 24-like performance". Now it is laughable.

However, it will be a decent boat for windier venues or for beginners, and its probably safe to say this class won't be taken over by pros any time soon like a certain other SB class.

The aluminum rig, which probably drove the frac kite decision, is probably a mistake as we have seen pretty much every other aluminum rigged sportboat go through the painful process of upgrading to carbon rigs within a year or two of introduction.

[Ryley]

Well, the guys who Melges-hike this boat are still going to be miles faster than the guys who don't.

Going upwind it looks sort of like it is closer to the original '80s Pocket Rocket than the current Rocket 22!

I thought it was silly that Bavaria was originally saying that the Farr office assured them this boat would have "Melges 24-like performance". Now it is laughable.

However, it will be a decent boat for windier venues or for beginners, and its probably safe to say this class won't be taken over by pros any time soon like a certain other SB class.

The aluminum rig, which probably drove the frac kite decision, is probably a mistake as we have seen pretty much every other aluminum rigged sportboat go through the painful process of upgrading to carbon rigs within a year or two of introduction.

you're not buying a pair of skis here, teaching "beginning sportboating" seems a bit odd, and what are you going to trade up to, a Bravura 29?

[Steam Flyer]

Well, the guys who Melges-hike this boat are still going to be miles faster than the guys who don't.

Going upwind it looks sort of like it is closer to the original '80s Pocket Rocket than the current Rocket 22!

I thought it was silly that Bavaria was originally saying that the Farr office assured them this boat would have "Melges 24-like performance". Now it is laughable.

However, it will be a decent boat for windier venues or for beginners, and its probably safe to say this class won't be taken over by pros any time soon like a certain other SB class.

The aluminum rig, which probably drove the frac kite decision, is probably a mistake as we have seen pretty much every other aluminum rigged sportboat go through the painful process of upgrading to carbon rigs within a year or two of introduction.

you're not buying a pair of skis here, teaching "beginning sportboating" seems a bit odd, and what are you going to trade up to, a Bravura 29?

ouch


Agreed on the carbon rig, I don't see any sense at this stage of the game in "going tin."

And yeah, -any- boat is faster given Melges-hiking but it's illegal in any class which has not re-legislated the lifelines to be "hiking assist lines." Think about what a J-24 would be like with Melges-hiking, and a carbon mast with mast head chute.

My feeling is that if the boat is less expensive and fun to sail, then it doesn't really matter if it's a "real sportboat." If going fast were the answer, everybody would have motorboats. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that it probably should be in 5ksb Anarchy not here


FB- Doug

[GybeSet®]

Technical data: Hull length 7.00 m

Beam 2.49 m

Draft 1.60 m lift keel down

Mainsail 21 m²

Jib 11 m²

Gennaker 46 m² still provisional

Weight approx. 1.020 kg empty

Ballast 370 kg

Those numbers should actually get it removed from the SB forum.........................

[Mexican]

And yeah, -any- boat is faster given Melges-hiking but it's illegal in any class which has not re-legislated the lifelines to be "hiking assist lines." Think about what a J-24 would be like with Melges-hiking, and a carbon mast with mast head chute.
FB- Doug

Still really shit! It would probably behave worse than in it's current format, if that's possible.

Mex

[dogwatch]

you're not buying a pair of skis here, teaching "beginning sportboating" seems a bit odd, and what are you going to trade up to, a Bravura 29?

You'd trade up to a dinghy, obviously. A sportsboat is just a dinghy with training wheels.

[Turkey Slapper]

So what do the Anarchist's think of the Baveria B one? Link

Just another viper!

Yawn!

40sqm shute, meeeeeow!

[ZeusProject]

Opti for grown ups maybe

[Tokyo Trash Baby]

I think I might buy one. Will probably be quicker than the leech 650 we are building. Might give the sb3's a run then! Bahahaha

[Steam Flyer]

And yeah, -any- boat is faster given Melges-hiking but it's illegal in any class which has not re-legislated the lifelines to be "hiking assist lines." Think about what a J-24 would be like with Melges-hiking, and a carbon mast with mast head chute.
FB- Doug

Still really shit! It would probably behave worse than in it's current format, if that's possible.

Mex

Right! That was my point- don't evaluate the boat on whether it has the flashy cool new features (chines! Carbon thisandthat!) but overall.

Some people like love J-24s, some won't touch them with a ten foot pole. Some people hang their crew off the lifelines in defiance of the rules and good sense.

I'm not a fan of Bavarias from what I've seen of them, but I'd give this boat a chance. Sort of like a J-70 only hopefully not needing a stepladder to get in. And hopefully cheaper less expensive.


FB- Doug

[Presuming Ed]

Well, the guys who Melges-hike this boat are still going to be miles faster than the guys who don't.

You're assuming that feet out hiking won't be banned by class rules (for OD sailing, at least). My guess is that it will be.

[Presuming Ed]

Agreed on the carbon rig, I don't see any sense at this stage of the game in "going tin."

Apart from cost. Which is what Bavarias are all about.

[Steam Flyer]

Agreed on the carbon rig, I don't see any sense at this stage of the game in "going tin."

Apart from cost. Which is what Bavarias are all about.

Yeah, but...


I've gotten the impression that the cost differential is minor, now that CF spars are being mass produced.

FB- Doug

[mezaire]

Well, the guys who Melges-hike this boat are still going to be miles faster than the guys who don't.

You're assuming that feet out hiking won't be banned by class rules (for OD sailing, at least). My guess is that it will be.

Or you sail on Oz where M24's are the only boat it's allowed on......

Or you caoul actually like your crew and want them to participate in sailing the boat

[dogwatch]

I've gotten the impression that the cost differential is minor, now that CF spars are being mass produced.

I know an OD class that recently looked into that question and from quotations they received, your impression appears to be incorrect.

[Steam Flyer]

I've gotten the impression that the cost differential is minor, now that CF spars are being mass produced.

I know an OD class that recently looked into that question and from quotations they received, your impression appears to be incorrect.

The spar itself, or the cost overall for a new boat?

FB- Doug

{edit}- putting CF spars on this boat still won't turn it into a sportboat, but with the J70 priced at $45k all up, you'd think the carbon can't be all that prohibitive. Also it makes the boat much easier to trailer so it's not just a 'performance upgrade.' What's the price point on the B/one? $35K or so?

[MSA]

New 30ish "Sport boat" rig, $20k USD. "Tin" Rig. $9K
From Southerns and bulk order of 5+. You would hate to see the Hall price..

I agree with DW.. They are cheaper than in the past.. Im sure you could go to a low end guy, but One Design needs perfect repeatability.

[Steam Flyer]

New 30ish "Sport boat" rig, $20k USD. "Tin" Rig. $9K
From Southerns and bulk order of 5+. You would hate to see the Hall price..

Hmm, yes a lot more than I thought.

OK thank you & DW for the info. Still I would guess that Bavaria can put together a sporty-ish 7m-ish boat for less that J-boats can (or would market it for). That puts the "deal or no deal" line a good bit under $35k for this one with a tin rig.

I agree with DW.. They are cheaper than in the past.. Im sure you could go to a low end guy, but One Design needs perfect repeatability.

Agreed also.

FB- Doug

[hotair]

45K all up is a very reasonable price for the J70.
It is probably based on the expectation of substantial sales volume.
I think they have calculated well.

[jim lee]

I think your $45k figure is off. Here's part of a message I received a few days ago..

Hi Jim,
I'm {snip} about to drop something like $54K on a J70 that from what I can tell gets the same rating as a Dart.

From this I take it they are more around $54k, not $45k

-jim lee

[Jerryd]

I think your $45k figure is off. Here's part of a message I received a few days ago..

Hi Jim,
I'm {snip} about to drop something like $54K on a J70 that from what I can tell gets the same rating as a Dart.

From this I take it they are more around $54k, not $45k

-jim lee

No, its $45,000. Complete with sails and trailer. Delivery is extra unless you pick up in Rhode Isalnd. I have the order blank right here on my desk and have talked to the dealer numerous times.

Most likely the rating will end up in the 120 range after they get some more race data. 117 was a good starting point though.

[Steam Flyer]

45K all up is a very reasonable price for the J70.
It is probably based on the expectation of substantial sales volume.
I think they have calculated well.

It's also likely to be a 'limited time promo' price, although they may have a hard time keeping volume up if they start raising the price.

I think your $45k figure is off. Here's part of a message I received a few days ago..

Hi Jim,
I'm {snip} about to drop something like $54K on a J70 that from what I can tell gets the same rating as a Dart.

From this I take it they are more around $54k, not $45k

-jim lee

No, its $45,000. Complete with sails and trailer. Delivery is extra unless you pick up in Rhode Isalnd. I have the order blank right here on my desk and have talked to the dealer numerous times.

Most likely the rating will end up in the 120 range after they get some more race data. 117 was a good starting point though.

$9k sounds like a lot for delivery, there are a number of options that $45k doesn't include though (I think).

And I think it's most likely that the rating will go down a little, once significant one-design racng begins and people get tuned up.

Anyway, the my original point was that Bavaria's going to have to bring this B/one in at a pretty low price to make it attractive. But it does look like a cool boat (still not a sportboat, sorry to repeat)

FB- Doug

[GybeSet®]

Still I would guess that Bavaria can put together a sporty-ish 7m-ish boat for less that J-boats can (or would market it for).

That puts the "deal or no deal" line a good bit under $35k for this one with a tin rig.

pure SA speculation

how does a guess become a tangible amount

jim says 54 west coast anyway

a boat 3 times the weight of a comparable ( cabin-less) Viper should go to CA, pls get the thread moved

[Jerryd]

$9k sounds like a lot for delivery, there are a number of options that $45k doesn't include though (I think).

And I think it's most likely that the rating will go down a little, once significant one-design racng begins and people get tuned up.

Anyway, the my original point was that Bavaria's going to have to bring this B/one in at a pretty low price to make it attractive. But it does look like a cool boat (still not a sportboat, sorry to repeat)

FB- Doug

$9K for delivery?? Where did that come from? Delivery $1,000. Options are motor, choice of sails, and several trailer options

[Steam Flyer]

$9k sounds like a lot for delivery... ...

$9K for delivery?? Where did that come from?
... ...

Simple math: $54k (what JL said) - $45k (quoted price) = $9k

DSK

[jim lee]

Heck, the guy never said what was included in the package. Maybe J Boats was tossing in a slightly used tow vehicle as well?

-jim lee

[dogwatch]

45K all up is a very reasonable price for the J70.

I suspect it will be significantly more in Europe, which is Bavaria's main market. Somehow nearly everything American companies try to sell in Europe costs way more here.

[quasi-expert]

to stop the speculation a new b/one is 23000€ ex works plus 2500€ for the racing sails plus 4500€ for the trailer, and hull/rudder covers.
prices can be found here
so that's roughly 28000$ for the bare boat, 31000$ race ready and 36500 ready to race and travel.

[ZeusProject]

don't know where your shopping for rigs because that price is way off you can get a shaw 650 rig ,boom and bow pole fore under 11 grand in nz so twenty is a bit pie in the sky boys.

[GybeSet®]

he was comparing for a 30 footer if you read closely

a shaw would be less than half the materials

prices, including yours are all supportable

[Atilla The Hun]

Thanks for the replys folks.
Pretty much confirms my own thinking on the B/one.

Atilla

[jc172528]

Technical data: Hull length 7.00 m

Weight approx. 1.020 kg empty

The BONE looks exceptional, a 7m SB that weights in at just over 1 kg, gotta be good.

[faster]

wow, that is one heavy sportsboat

[GybeSet®]

oxymoron

thats 2 1/2 shaws or vipers

or about 25% UP on a j/70

[6924]

Yeah

[ZeusProject]

7 meters + 1 tonne = bucket of shit Way to heavy for a current sporty contender

[akasideshow]

7 meters + 1 tonne = bucket of shit Way to heavy for a current sporty contender

I told them not to go for ferro cement construction

[Rossy]

No shit Sherlock
Once again stating the obvious

Seriously as far as Ausrtalasia was concerned was never meant to be a sportie contender
My understanding was maybe more of a rugged sailing school or one design proposition

7 meters + 1 tonne = bucket of shit Way to heavy for a current sporty contender

[ZeusProject]

Love stating the obvious but really why are we producing boats like the vx the viper the sb3 and now the b one that dont really fit in any real box except for one design racing .look at the shaw 650 light, quick, rates well ,looks cool and has true sportsboat performance.

Or is that too obvious

[dogwatch]

Oh dear, the Cowes Week demo boat broke their mast on day 1. 20 gusting 25, nothing extreme.

[Timbo]

Love stating the obvious but really why are we producing boats like the vx the viper the sb3 and now the b one that dont really fit in any real box except for one design racing .look at the shaw 650 light, quick, rates well ,looks cool and has true sportsboat performance.

Or is that too obvious

Sorry, missed your point.. what exactly is obvious?? Do you not like one design racing?? what box are we supposed to live in??

[ZeusProject]

Nothing wrong with one deign racing they just dont seem to go that well in aus , the vx dosnt fit in sms , the viper is only being sailed in wa and sb3 hasnt been that flash either so that being the case in aus were does the b one stand.
The melges 24 still struggled to comand a good fleet yet the shaw 650 have sold over a dozen boats and both perform well in sms . So why will the b one work where the others havnt

[oregami]

Zeus

One design is why the Viper is so good. – it has the best of both worlds.
We can go out and join in with the SMS fleet knowing the Viper has a great SMS rating and is competitive against other SMS boats, having competed successfully against Shaw 650's, Melges, T7's and 750's, etc.

Or ……we can go out and race one design if we want to.

It's nice to have the choice……

As you said, the Viper has a well-established fleet in WA and as you know, a container of four Vipers land in Sydney in a months time.
So, a dozen boats in Australia - east and west coast…. with a lot of interest being generated.

All sports boats are great to sail and having a few one designs only improves the chances of sports boats growing further in Australia….it's all good. '

[Speedwatch]

Oh dear, the Cowes Week demo boat broke their mast on day 1. 20 gusting 25, nothing extreme.

Better during the demo phase than later. Rigg problem or crew mistake? And you should know: Pics or it did not happend ;-)

[dogwatch]

^

No pics I'm afraid but mast-less in Shepherds Wharf after racing on Saturday and did not race on Sunday. We also saw a sportsboat with rig down in the western Solent which presumably was them. "Crewed by various members of the Hyde team and a variety of Hyde customers" according to http://www.yachtsand...es-Cowes-debut. I don't really see how crew-work could be responsible for losing a mast in those conditions unless there had been a collision, which I doubt as it would have been reported.

[williwaw]

Oh dear, the Cowes Week demo boat broke their mast on day 1. 20 gusting 25, nothing extreme.

Better during the demo phase than later. Rigg problem or crew mistake? And you should know: Pics or it did not happend ;-)

Broke the rig downwind. They were laying last anyway.

[fireball]

Love stating the obvious but really why are we producing boats like the vx the viper the sb3 and now the b one that dont really fit in any real box except for one design racing .look at the shaw 650 light, quick, rates well ,looks cool and has true sportsboat performance.

Or is that too obvious

I looked at the viper and the shaw 650. The shaw 650 looked like a great boat, but there was a big difference in price with the shaw costing something like $47K versus the viper at $35K.

Of course, you get something for the extra money: it's a bigger boat with a bigger rig, faster, carries 4 crew instead of 3.

But I wanted something smaller and cheaper and chose the viper.

With the GBP flushed down the toilet it's a great time to buy a boat (Rondar Raceboats UK builds the viper).

The B/one looks like a completely different concept: much heavier with an aluminium mast - more like a mini yacht than a Sportsboat. It didn't interest me at all: you could buy a 2nd hand Magic 25 and get pretty much the same thing for a fraction of the price.

[GybeSet®]

.
except the Magic would be still be lighter, have a carbon mast, and be at least as quick as a M24 ,,,,, the Magic is a remarkable performer for it's 900 odd kg


no contest

[Terrorvision]

And cheap as chips to pick a decent one up. Built like shit outhouses and great fun to sail.

[Jerryd]

.
except the Magic would be still be lighter, have a carbon mast, and be at least as quick as a M24 ,,,,, the Magic is a remarkable performer for it's 900 odd kg


no contest

I read a lot of positive things about the Magic here on SA, and it sounds like quite a fun boat. Without using the trapeze, what's it like to sail upwind in 15-20? Can you get by with 3-4 crew in mixed fleet racing. PHRF around here!

[GybeSet®]

Easy
4 done all the time, get away with 3 under 15knts

if you need any convincing it has a whopping 30% more lead in the bulb than a Melges, so the sum of everything else weighs the same
the traps were not only what scared off a conservative market but also weren't absolutely necessary

[GRUMPY]

.
except the Magic would be still be lighter, have a carbon mast, and be at least as quick as a M24 ,,,,, the Magic is a remarkable performer for it's 900 odd kg


no contest

A sym & trapped boat. It never took off as a class. Now it's an orphan with a pole.

[GybeSet®]

.
except the Magic would be still be lighter, have a carbon mast, and be at least as quick as a M24 ,,,,, the Magic is a remarkable performer for it's 900 odd kg


no contest

I read a lot of positive things about the Magic here on SA, and it sounds like quite a fun boat. Without using the trapeze, what's it like to sail upwind in 15-20? Can you get by with 3-4 crew in mixed fleet racing. PHRF around here!

jerry the fleets OD race in Honk Kong, NZ & Canberra with traps

In mixed fleet club racing ( i.e. Sydney ) generally without as rightly so the yotties won't have it

[Jerryd]

Easy
4 done all the time, get away with 3 under 15knts

if you need any convincing it has a whopping 30% more lead in the bulb than a Melges, so the sum of everything else weighs the same
the traps were not only what scared off a conservative market but also weren't absolutely necessary

Thanks GS!

Can the boat be crane launched? Lifting points at the keel? It would be a preference here instead of trailer launching.

[GybeSet®]

yeah we go crane to trailer here

[Jerryd]

yeah we go crane to trailer here

Are there lifting points at the keel box, or do you hook directly the the top of the keel and lift with the keel?

[Geert]

Oh dear, the Cowes Week demo boat broke their mast on day 1. 20 gusting 25, nothing extreme.

Today it won the sportsboats class :-)

(That's the class with no sportboats according to SA standards).

[Terrorvision]

yeah we go crane to trailer here

Are there lifting points at the keel box, or do you hook directly the the top of the keel and lift with the keel?

Top of the retractable keel- very easily crane launched. The magic is a fast sporty with 5 active sheets: main, jib, kite, prodder outhaul and kite halyard. Kicker, outhaul etc are marginally useless except for downwind when you fling the kicker just before you broach!
There a couple of Magics in Florida that had traps taken off and lifelines added and the owner did pretty well under handicap there. Hk and NZL have active fleets and good to hear that theer are a few still pushing through in AUS too. I know a few were heavily modded the Singapore one with racks etc and a Sydney one with flush wooden decks etc.

[Jerryd]

Top of the retractable keel- very easily crane launched. The magic is a fast sporty with 5 active sheets: main, jib, kite, prodder outhaul and kite halyard. Kicker, outhaul etc are marginally useless except for downwind when you fling the kicker just before you broach!
There a couple of Magics in Florida that had traps taken off and lifelines added and the owner did pretty well under handicap there. Hk and NZL have active fleets and good to hear that theer are a few still pushing through in AUS too. I know a few were heavily modded the Singapore one with racks etc and a Sydney one with flush wooden decks etc.

Any idea where/who in Florida?

[GybeSet®]

jerry -> Michigan m8 resurrect the hobie magic 25 thread

Oh dear, the Cowes Week demo boat broke their mast on day 1. 20 gusting 25, nothing extreme.

Today it won the sportsboats class :-)

tis true the hydesails works B/one team came second to the Viper 640 FdL across the line

remainder of fleet is cork1720s & hunters

[fireball]

.
except the Magic would be still be lighter, have a carbon mast, and be at least as quick as a M24 ,,,,, the Magic is a remarkable performer for it's 900 odd kg


no contest

A sym & trapped boat. It never took off as a class. Now it's an orphan with a pole.

It doesn't have a spinnaker pole. It has the same sort of bowsprit pole as other sportsboats.

But I think the trapezes were a mistake. I did a fair bit of sailing on Magic 25s back in the 1990's. Trapezing offshore doesn't make any sense - it just makes the crew nervous if there's a big swell running.

[Jerryd]

GybeSet-

PM'd you!

[freddy]

It broke because the rig is poorly designed. Ultimately it has no back stay and no gooseneck lowers. We watched the rig break from a couple of hundred yards away - it was windy but nothing excessive, and the damage amongst other fleets was minimal. It didn't nose dive excessively, but rig carried on over front.

Unless the rig is redesigned, I wouldn't touch it w a barge pole - or you sail on a lake with no winds or waves - in which case take up water skiing.....

[dogwatch]

Today it won the sportsboats class :-)

(That's the class with no sportboats according to SA standards).

Not entirely. There's a Viper. And a J70.

[schoonerman]

the BONE looks like a good instructional boat. I have to check it out. Been looking hard at using J70's but the price is tough.

[ZeusProject]

T7 dosnt have backstay or gooseneck lowers and its near inpossible to throw a rig over the front , so it sounds like the rig is a complete joke . Mind you dragging a tonne down the coarse its got a bit on

[Jerryd]

Not endorsing the B/One, but just noticed in this month's Sailing World advertising the boat for $32K USD. It didn't say what that included

[PurpleOnion]

Not endorsing the B/One, but just noticed in this month's Sailing World advertising the boat for $32K USD. It didn't say what that included

There's a full price list here.
http://www.sail-b1.com/fileadmin/files/Preislisten_b_one_01-2013.pdf

It's in Euros and I don't know what the US price will be, but it should give you a feel for what's included in each of the options and an idea of what US pricing might look like.

[Steam Flyer]

Not endorsing the B/One, but just noticed in this month's Sailing World advertising the boat for $32K USD. It didn't say what that included

There's a full price list here.
http://www.sail-b1.c...one_01-2013.pdf

It's in Euros and I don't know what the US price will be, but it should give you a feel for what's included in each of the options and an idea of what US pricing might look like.

As of today's rate, here's the breakdown

Boat- $28,664
Racing Sails option- $3180
Trailer- $3380

No idea what shipping to the US is; but it looks like $32k is a better-than-ballpark figure. I can guarantee you a better deal that that on a trailer, place just up the road does first-class work and they'd love to put one under the boat for you ~$1800

Yeah it's heavy and it's not really a sportboat, but it looks cool & it looks fun to sail and it's >$10k cheaper than a J70. I'd seriously consider one if they get the mast issues sorted out and there's a fleet somewhere nearby.

FB- Doug

[Jerryd]

I can guarantee you a better deal that that on a trailer, place just up the road does first-class work and they'd love to put one under the boat for you ~$1800

FB- Doug

Where's that Doug?

[Steam Flyer]

I can guarantee you a better deal that that on a trailer, place just up the road does first-class work and they'd love to put one under the boat for you ~$1800

FB- Doug

Where's that Doug?

Just west of town on 55
They wanted $1600 for a new trailer for the Santana 23, drop-axle w/ trailer brakes; would have taken some extra in labor to get the bunks right (plus I have some unconventional ideas about support/on-off configuration). I may go back and do it but right now I am in don't-spend-money-on-boat mode

FB- Doug