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#1 pipsqueak

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 11:02 AM

Posted Image
Town getting restless as Freeport man enters 20th year of construction on schooner made from recycled materials

FREEPORT, Maine — Down a quiet, narrow dirt path off Flying Point Road, behind a thin wall of trees, hides a carefully constructed, massive pile of junk.



At least it used to be junk. Now it's Harold Arndt's dream boat, a 113-foot-long, steel, two-masted schooner called Island Rover, built completely of recycled materials.



"It'll have all the comforts of home, all previously owned," Arndt said as he walked through the 75 percent completed boat last week, pointing out where the full-size kitchen, sleeping quarters, research laboratory and dining hall (or "people's room") will be when it's all finished.



Arndt, president of the Island Rover Foundation, a nonprofit organization that oversees the construction and eventual operation of the schooner, knows the boat by heart. He sees all the yet-to-be built amenities where others only see dimly lit steel ribs curving up the insides of the massive steel hull.



But now, just short of the 20th anniversary of the start of the project, Arndt may be forced to make a decision that puts the ship's future at risk.



On Aug. 7, the Town Council will vote on a consent agreement with the foundation that will determine whether Arndt and his team will be able to continue working on the boat at its current location.



Arndt started building the boat as a private project in the early 1990s, but said he decided to start a foundation in 2000 to help fund the project and use it as an educational platform. The shift to nonprofit status caused the construction to go out of compliance with zoning laws in the residential neighborhood.



Under the law, the foundation, technically a corporation, cannot build a boat in that neighborhood. The agreement grants the foundation the ability to bypass those laws with the stipulation that the project be completed within a specific time frame.



story and video here

island rover website


Posted Image


#2 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 11:39 AM

Hurry - someone call Reid!

#3 Snaggletooth

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 11:41 AM

alnayes lovede that songue!!

:)

#4 mikewof

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 11:58 AM

Jeez, always seems there's some town council somewhere that just has to take a crap in someone's salad.

#5 Tom Ray

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:06 PM

...eventual operation of the schooner


So which one will sail first, this or the ferrosprout contraption up the creek?

It looks like a turtle race, but much, much slower. :lol:

#6 President Eisenhowler

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:14 PM

Jeez, always seems there's some town council guy somewhere that just has to take a crap in someone's everyone's salad by operating an industrial facility in a residential neighborhood.



Fixed it for you.

#7 Presuming Ed

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:24 PM

... the 75 percent completed boat...
Posted Image


Don't think so, somehow. The hull & deck might be 75% completed, but that's a long way from being the finished article. If it's taken him 20 years to get to here, I doubt he'll ever finish. .




#8 Tom Ray

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:32 PM

And I doubt that the Anne will ever escape that creek. But the possibility that one of them might could make the race interesting for years.

#9 mikewof

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:40 PM

Jeez, always seems there's some guy council somewhere that just has to take a crap in everyone's salad by operating an industrial facility in a residential neighborhood. equate someone's right to quietly build a sailboat on his own property, carefully hidden by trees, with an industrial facility.


Fixed your fix. No charge.

By the way, here is an aerial of that "residential neighborhood."

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=freeport+maine+flying+point+road&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x4cb27feb56b1f3e5:0xe69acd8cbcc680a8,Flying+Point+Rd,+Freeport,+ME&gl=us&sa=X&ei=LDsRUK3KGYSe8QTomoCICg&ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA


#10 pipsqueak

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:09 PM

alnayes lovede that songue!!

:)


the best songue evah!!
good luck Harold! if they allow that ugly LLBEAN giant Boot downtown, then your boat should be okay too! (see comments on original article/gator is commenting there?).



Jeez, always seems there's some guy council somewhere that just has to take a crap in everyone's salad by operating an industrial facility in a residential neighborhood. equate someone's right to quietly build a sailboat on his own property, carefully hidden by trees, with an industrial facility.


Fixed your fix. No charge.

By the way, here is an aerial of that "residential neighborhood."

http://maps.google.c...ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA


here's some docs online that describe a little of the progress and the neighborhood. the council meetings minutes are posted somewhere too i think. sounds like Harold wants this thing pushed through while his buddy is still in charge ;)

letter from Harold to local council in '09 (written in hovian! gotta be a backstory here just waiting to be told!)

#11 Tom Ray

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:34 PM

Interesting. The 501 c(3) didn't pay property taxes like the previous owner of the junkyard did. The goals of the corporation seem suspiciously similar to his retirement goals. <_<

#12 Willin'

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:26 PM

The boat's invisible to the neighbors, it's so far back in the woods. Unfortunately the ocean front neighborhood has been taken over by recent, well to do transplants that always want to bring a bit of home with them when they relocate, like street lights, manicured lawns, sidewalks and unecessary but expensive services.

The real reason they're raising a squawk is the house Harold lives in is a dump and a blight on the neighborhood of restored New England cottages and excessively ornate modernist nightmares.

I haven't visited Harold in a couple of years, but the progress he was making was pitiably slow. I have serious doubts he'll live to see it through.

#13 Snaggletooth

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:38 PM

The boat's invisible to the neighbors, it's so far back in the woods. Unfortunately the ocean front neighborhood has been taken over by recent, well to do transplants that always want to bring a bit of home with them when they relocate, like street lights, manicured lawns, sidewalks and unecessary but expensive services.

The real reason they're raising a squawk is the house Harold lives in is a dump and a blight on the neighborhood of restored New England cottages and excessively ornate modernist nightmares.

I haven't visited Harold in a couple of years, but the progress he was making was pitiably slow. I have serious doubts he'll live to see it through.

Nowe that mackes sense.... :)

Rocke On Harolde!! :)

#14 Tom Ray

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:41 PM

I haven't visited Harold in a couple of years, but the progress he was making was pitiably slow. I have serious doubts he'll live to see it through.


Poor fella. Once it's done and the 501 c(3) is no longer using the site, does that mean the previous owner will have to go back to paying property taxes?

I wouldn't be in a huge hurry to finish either.

Hey, a buddy is painting his F-27 in my yard at the moment, and that's pretty educational. :rolleyes:

#15 pipsqueak

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 03:23 PM

The boat's invisible to the neighbors, it's so far back in the woods.


the green marker is from the foundations google plus page:
Posted Image

but it looks like maybe this is the boat? (down the street to the left/sry can't fit it all in one photo/no street view available)
Posted Image
hidden under trees as described to left listed as an 'enterprise' with boat parts for sale?



#16 pipsqueak

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 03:33 PM

oooo
now i see it!
it's not the ones above.
click the google map link and go sw
how cool!
Posted Image

hidden in the broccoli
Posted Image


#17 Bluto

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 03:45 PM

oooo
now i see it!
it's not the ones above.
click the google map link and go sw
how cool!
Posted Image


Reminds me of a guy I knew who built a 24' canoe in his basement.How the hell do you get it out.

#18 mikewof

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 03:53 PM

The boat's invisible to the neighbors, it's so far back in the woods. Unfortunately the ocean front neighborhood has been taken over by recent, well to do transplants that always want to bring a bit of home with them when they relocate, like street lights, manicured lawns, sidewalks and unecessary but expensive services.

The real reason they're raising a squawk is the house Harold lives in is a dump and a blight on the neighborhood of restored New England cottages and excessively ornate modernist nightmares.

I haven't visited Harold in a couple of years, but the progress he was making was pitiably slow. I have serious doubts he'll live to see it through.


It's cool that you know him, I hope he finishes it. I like the shape of it, Lotta soul in that boat. And regardless what happens with it, I'll always cheer for.the old guy who spends his time building something wonderful (let alone a steel hull sailboat) instead of waiting to die in front of the television set at the retirement home. I wish I lived close enough to help him a bit.

Go the Harold!

#19 dreaded

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 04:53 PM


Jeez, always seems there's some town council guy somewhere that just has to take a crap in someone's everyone's salad by operating an industrial facility in a residential neighborhood.



Fixed it for you.


oh cut the crap, you don't see any neighbors in that photo..

#20 d'ranger

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:16 PM

Wow. Finishing is a huge task dwarfed by launching it. Ones man's trash is another man's treasure.

#21 Windward

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:38 PM

How possibly do you move that boat to the water? One of those house moving services?

#22 Willin'

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:49 PM

How possibly do you move that boat to the water? One of those house moving services?


Actually there's an overgrown woods road that leads up to the construction site. A little clearing of overgrowth and bob's your uncle.

#23 Willin'

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:54 PM

oooo
now i see it!
it's not the ones above.
click the google map link and go sw
how cool!
hidden in the broccoli
Posted Image



Can't figure out the google embed thing, but scroll northeast a hundred yards to the second house from the boat and that's Harold's tumbledown house. The back yard is full of stacked cordwood for heating, construction materials, and alongside the house under the trees and fully visible from the road is about a 30' wooden sailboat hull slowly collapsing in on itself. I'm pretty sure that's the crux of the problem.

ETA: Oops, just noticed that Pips zoomed in on the house in 15. Interestingly, if you zoom out and look at the intersection of Byram Ave and Lower Flying Point you'll see the huge white shed of a neighbor who has been sloooowly restoring a big black Alden schooner in his front yard for about 7 years now with nary a peep from the neighbors.

#24 Ancient_Mariner

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 06:01 PM

Talk about going green! Recycled crap to build a SAILboat. He should get a grant!

Keeps him off the streets too.

Go the Harold!

#25 DA-WOODY

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:16 AM

Posted Image
Town getting restless as Freeport man enters 20th year of construction on schooner made from recycled materials

FREEPORT, Maine — Down a quiet, narrow dirt path off Flying Point Road, behind a thin wall of trees, hides a carefully constructed, massive pile of junk.



At least it used to be junk. Now it's Harold Arndt's dream boat, a 113-foot-long, steel, two-masted schooner called Island Rover, built completely of recycled materials.



"It'll have all the comforts of home, all previously owned," Arndt said as he walked through the 75 percent completed boat last week, pointing out where the full-size kitchen, sleeping quarters, research laboratory and dining hall (or "people's room") will be when it's all finished.



Arndt, president of the Island Rover Foundation, a nonprofit organization that oversees the construction and eventual operation of the schooner, knows the boat by heart. He sees all the yet-to-be built amenities where others only see dimly lit steel ribs curving up the insides of the massive steel hull.



But now, just short of the 20th anniversary of the start of the project, Arndt may be forced to make a decision that puts the ship's future at risk.



On Aug. 7, the Town Council will vote on a consent agreement with the foundation that will determine whether Arndt and his team will be able to continue working on the boat at its current location.



Arndt started building the boat as a private project in the early 1990s, but said he decided to start a foundation in 2000 to help fund the project and use it as an educational platform. The shift to nonprofit status caused the construction to go out of compliance with zoning laws in the residential neighborhood.



Under the law, the foundation, technically a corporation, cannot build a boat in that neighborhood. The agreement grants the foundation the ability to bypass those laws with the stipulation that the project be completed within a specific time frame.



story and video here

island rover website


Posted Image


doesn't look like more than pairs of rodents could walk that gangway

raccoons ca jump from the trees

#26 President Eisenhowler

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:51 AM


Jeez, always seems there's some guy council somewhere that just has to take a crap in everyone's salad by operating an industrial facility in a residential neighborhood. equate someone's right to quietly build a sailboat on his own property, carefully hidden by trees, with an industrial facility.


Fixed your fix. No charge.

By the way, here is an aerial of that "residential neighborhood."

http://maps.google.c...ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA


I've been there. It's small farms, houses, woods, environmentally sensitive areas like creeks and estuaries. If the town wants to ban the operation of a god-damned junkyard, more power to them.

#27 mikewof

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:56 AM



Jeez, always seems there's some guy council somewhere that just has to take a crap in everyone's salad by operating an industrial facility in a residential neighborhood. equate someone's right to quietly build a sailboat on his own property, carefully hidden by trees, with an industrial facility.


Fixed your fix. No charge.

By the way, here is an aerial of that "residential neighborhood."

http://maps.google.c...ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA


I've been there. It's small farms, houses, woods, environmentally sensitive areas like creeks and estuaries. If the town wants to ban the operation of a god-damned junkyard, more power to them.


They do that here too ... buncha folks move into a formerly rural area, suburbanize it, and then tell the old timers they have to get rid of the pigs, the mule, the rusty silo, especially the roosters.

Old timer says "grandfather clause!"

New timers say "property tax assessor is on the way, good luck keeping that $500/year property tax bill now that the neighborhood is incorporated, and you're flanked by expensive homes.

Old timer starts hacking chunks of his property off to sell to cover the new property tax, suddenly tastes money he or she never had, and the rest is pretty much downhill. Roosters just don't make good neighbors for most folks.

#28 tuf-luf

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 03:32 AM

Leave the old codger alone I say!!

Go the HAROLD!

#29 mikewof

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 04:06 AM

Leave the old codger alone I say!!

Go the HAROLD!


Go the Harold.

If real life were like television, Harold would find himself in a final confrontation with one preppy neighbor who wears a Lacoste sweater over his shoulder, and he would look down at the dirt as the contemptible rich guy says something to the effect of "now see here, you're going to get this poopy out of here."

And just when all looks lost, the Sailing Anarchists would suddenly start filing through his woods carrying steel and welding tanks and a mast and a sail, and we would finish his boat in a flurry of activity, then we shove the gal through the timber trail, Bobs your uncle, he would be in the water, tears welling down his face, his dream finally coming true.

Of course real life is a little different, the guy with the Lacoste sweater over his shoulders usually wins, but is so tasteful and charming you completely forget to hate him as he auctions off the land (and sells it to his equally charming leatherette wife) for arrears of property tax, then develops the land into a subdivision and uses the proceeds to unwittingly fund his youngest son's crack and gambling addition.

#30 tuf-luf

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:13 AM

Tears welling down his face...oh that's a nice touch. <_<

#31 Tom Ray

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 09:35 AM

They do that here too ... buncha folks move into a formerly rural area, suburbanize it, and then tell the old timers they have to get rid of the pigs, the mule, the rusty silo, especially the roosters.

Old timer says "grandfather clause!"

New timers say "property tax assessor is on the way, good luck keeping that $500/year property tax bill now that the neighborhood is incorporated, and you're flanked by expensive homes.

Old timer starts hacking chunks of his property off to sell to cover the new property tax, suddenly tastes money he or she never had, and the rest is pretty much downhill. Roosters just don't make good neighbors for most folks.


I was the only one out here when I moved here. Now I have a bunch of neighbors. Can't really complain, since we sold them the land.

I don't care what this guy's junkyard looks like, I can guarantee you it looks cleaner and more organized than my favorite neighbor's yard. Yeah, the one with the swamp track. He was over yesterday with his end-loader terraforming my pond a bit. He's not very deed-restriction friendly, but then, neither am I. ;)

But he pays his fucking property taxes, just like I do. If he suddenly declared his junkyard an educational foundation and his retirement goals as a lofty educational goal and used that claim to get out of paying his property taxes, I'd have a problem with it. It would look an awful lot like he was a freeloader who was abusing the tax code.

That's what this guy looks like to me. I have no problem with his mess. I guarantee I live next to a bigger one and I find it nothing but amusing. I have a problem with his 501 c (3). We all want to sail, but this guy and Reid Stowe want to declare it a sacred mission and have someone else pay.

If I had a tax dodge like that one living in my yard, I would NEVER finish working on it and go back to paying taxes.

#32 pipsqueak

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:38 PM

A little clearing of overgrowth and bob's your uncle.


wofsey, no need for metal masts..all those trees are spar pines, i'd guess every bit as coffee-table-book-worthy as the sacred royal trees from the danish king's forest..

willin', i'm wracking my brains how to make HAROLD my uncle!
i want an itsy bitsy scap of that heavenly junkyard land to call home!
just enough for a little shanty with a wood stove..please uncle Harold??
i'll be as quiet as a keebler elf back there!
i could plant a nice big garden, bake fresh croissants every morning, maybe get a couple of goats and learn to make fancy cheese, clean up the junkyard and ebay the hell out of the mountains of crap vintage objet d'art..haul traps, redeck the wood boats, babysit my little cousins...you name it, i'll do it unc!
you'll be sailing to guyana in no time and i'll feed the cats and train the rats while your gone!
bob's the word! your loving enpaupered niece, pip!
remember family is EVERYTHING Howard!
btw Hal: i also want a pinto pony for Christmas!
*think i'll go over and take some pics...for starters

#33 DA-WOODY

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 04:00 PM

Posted Image


I think he's on to something

I mean if you can build a boat without a front to fall off

what could possibly go wrong ??


I think it would take 30 years of sailing to get up to speed on how to handle a boat of that size

&

for the price of the Rigging & Sails

I'm pretty sure he could get a boat complete with Rigging & Sails

I don't think this is about Sailing it's about a hobby of building a boat

If he's Happy what else matters

#34 President Eisenhowler

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:59 PM




Jeez, always seems there's some guy council somewhere that just has to take a crap in everyone's salad by operating an industrial facility in a residential neighborhood. equate someone's right to quietly build a sailboat on his own property, carefully hidden by trees, with an industrial facility.


Fixed your fix. No charge.

By the way, here is an aerial of that "residential neighborhood."

http://maps.google.c...ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA


I've been there. It's small farms, houses, woods, environmentally sensitive areas like creeks and estuaries. If the town wants to ban the operation of a god-damned junkyard, more power to them.


They do that here too ... buncha folks move into a formerly rural area, suburbanize it, and then tell the old timers they have to get rid of the pigs, the mule, the rusty silo, especially the roosters.

Old timer says "grandfather clause!"

New timers say "property tax assessor is on the way, good luck keeping that $500/year property tax bill now that the neighborhood is incorporated, and you're flanked by expensive homes.

Old timer starts hacking chunks of his property off to sell to cover the new property tax, suddenly tastes money he or she never had, and the rest is pretty much downhill. Roosters just don't make good neighbors for most folks.


Yeah, I'm familiar with that problem, but Freeport's been pretty "genteel" since our grandparents' day.

#35 mikewof

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:52 PM

But he pays his fucking property taxes, just like I do. If he suddenly declared his junkyard an educational foundation and his retirement goals as a lofty educational goal and used that claim to get out of paying his property taxes, I'd have a problem with it. It would look an awful lot like he was a freeloader who was abusing the tax code.

That's what this guy looks like to me. I have no problem with his mess. I guarantee I live next to a bigger one and I find it nothing but amusing. I have a problem with his 501 c (3). We all want to sail, but this guy and Reid Stowe want to declare it a sacred mission and have someone else pay.

If I had a tax dodge like that one living in my yard, I would NEVER finish working on it and go back to paying taxes.


Where are you getting this theory of yours? Do you know that he doesn't pay property tax? A 501c3 isn't an automatic exemption from property tax.

If he definitely isn't paying property tax then that land is almost definitely owned by the 501c3, right? The IRS isn't stupid y'know.

And if that land is owned by a nonprofit then who inherits the property when he passes on to the great junkyard in the sky? Nobody. The land is still owned by the nonprofit, and the new directors control the property.

If this is a ”tax dodge” as you call it then it's the worst tax dodge in the history of tax dodges because he essentially had to give his property up to do it.

#36 Tom Ray

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:23 PM

Where are you getting this theory of yours? Do you know that he doesn't pay property tax?


I'm a clicker and a reader, Mike.

letter from Harold to local council in '09 (written in hovian! gotta be a backstory here just waiting to be told!)


He said the 501 c(3) did not pay taxes like the previous owner (himself) did and also outlined the goals of the corporation. They are suspiciously similar to his retirement goals, also outlined.

#37 mikewof

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:29 PM


Where are you getting this theory of yours? Do you know that he doesn't pay property tax?


I'm a clicker and a reader, Mike.

letter from Harold to local council in '09 (written in hovian! gotta be a backstory here just waiting to be told!)


He said the 501 c(3) did not pay taxes like the previous owner (himself) did and also outlined the goals of the corporation. They are suspiciously similar to his retirement goals, also outlined.


Then it sounds like he donated his property to the 501c3. What's the problem? If he did that then he doesn't own it anymore, it's essentially owned by his state and he just gets to stay there until he dies.

If he transfers ownership back to himself or an heir he'll have to pay capital gains.

You're all upset over nothing.

#38 Tom Ray

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:42 PM

Then it sounds like he donated his property to the 501c3. What's the problem? If he did that then he doesn't own it anymore, it's essentially owned by his state and he just gets to stay there until he dies.

If he transfers ownership back to himself or an heir he'll have to pay capital gains.

You're all upset over nothing.


That's his corporation, not the state's.

Before incorporation, he lived and worked there and paid taxes.

After incorporation, he lived and worked there and did not pay taxes.

The only significant change I see is the payment of taxes.

#39 mikewof

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:53 PM

That's his corporation, not the state's.


It's not his. A 501c3 doesn't have owners, except for the public at large. It only has stakeholders. A nonprofit is a public organization. The corporation can't be sold, along with its property it can only be transferred to another nonprofit or to the state.

Before incorporation, he lived and worked there and paid taxes.

After incorporation, he lived and worked there and did not pay taxes.

The only significant change I see is the payment of taxes.


uh, other than the fact that he no longer owns the property you mean and it's now essentially public property?

#40 Tom Ray

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:19 PM

One thing stakeholders have in common: they have no legal ability to profit personally

His corporation's goals look suspiciously similar to his retirement goals. That looks an awful lot like personal profit. As does living on the site while building without paying taxes like other residents do.

#41 Willin'

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:45 PM

And I thought I was a cynic. Your life must be miserable, Tom, if you go around looking for clouds behind every silver lining.

#42 mikewof

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 02:30 AM

One thing stakeholders have in common: they have no legal ability to profit personally

His corporation's goals look suspiciously similar to his retirement goals. That looks an awful lot like personal profit. As does living on the site while building without paying taxes like other residents do.


Nah, you can live on public property as a stakeholder. And not pay taxes. And make your corporation's goals suspiciously like your retirement goals.

But you're ignoring the elephant in the room Normy ... Harold no longer owns that land, he can't will it to his children, the best he can do is appoint his children to stakeholder positions in the nonprofit and they can live on the land, but they can't ever sell it for a profit unless they first buy it (at market value) back from the nonprofit.

The other residents you mention OWN their properties, and thus they need to pay property tax on it. If the value of their property goes up they can sell it and make a killing. All Harold can do is try to find a buyer for the property and then at best give himself a fair and customary salary from the 501c3.

It isn't a tax-dodge like you suggest, it's just the nature of nonprofits, and Universities are some of the biggest property holders in many cities, they deal with these restrictions all the time. And the reason more people don't do what Harold has apparently done is because most people aren't committed enough to their life goals to give away their property.

Remember Normy, if this land is as valuable as these articles suggest, he could have just sold all the land and bought a boat. He didn't do that, he is obviously connected with the process of building that boat, on that land and he was willing to give up his property to make that happen. Harold is awesome, go the Harold.

#43 opa1

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 02:50 AM

Finishing that monster is one thing. How do you move it when it's complete? That will cost a small fortune in itself.

#44 pipsqueak

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 10:40 AM

i like his house, willin. i wouldn't call it a 'dump'. i'm envious of Harold's set up..
Posted Image
it woud look much better with a couple of cute goats and a paint pony in a little day paddock out front
here's his tax page tom, you have to put his name into the form to see it i don't know what the numbers mean. they don't list a selling price so maybe that means the property has been in Harold's family for hundreds of years? it says .55 acres, so maybe the house is a seperate parcel and he does pay taxes as a property owner?

i went back to the original article to read the comments from locals, seems like 99.99% are in favor of his 'keeping things the way they are'. there's only one comment there mentioning the tax exemption..is it yours? ;)
opa1, moving the boat would not be difficult or expensive at all. there are many big old lobsterboats parked on farmland miles from the sea, they truck them through towns (need a permit and the cops stop traffic for you) and splash them all the time.

#45 Tom Ray

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 11:20 AM


One thing stakeholders have in common: they have no legal ability to profit personally

His corporation's goals look suspiciously similar to his retirement goals. That looks an awful lot like personal profit. As does living on the site while building without paying taxes like other residents do.


Nah, you can live on public property as a stakeholder. And not pay taxes. And make your corporation's goals suspiciously like your retirement goals.

But you're ignoring the elephant in the room Normy ... Harold no longer owns that land, he can't will it to his children, the best he can do is appoint his children to stakeholder positions in the nonprofit and they can live on the land, but they can't ever sell it for a profit unless they first buy it (at market value) back from the nonprofit.

The other residents you mention OWN their properties, and thus they need to pay property tax on it. If the value of their property goes up they can sell it and make a killing. All Harold can do is try to find a buyer for the property and then at best give himself a fair and customary salary from the 501c3.

It isn't a tax-dodge like you suggest, it's just the nature of nonprofits, and Universities are some of the biggest property holders in many cities, they deal with these restrictions all the time. And the reason more people don't do what Harold has apparently done is because most people aren't committed enough to their life goals to give away their property.

Remember Normy, if this land is as valuable as these articles suggest, he could have just sold all the land and bought a boat. He didn't do that, he is obviously connected with the process of building that boat, on that land and he was willing to give up his property to make that happen. Harold is awesome, go the Harold.


I'm more willing to accept the idea that universities are there to educate people than this fellow, but you are right that his actions show commitment to his dream. Or at least the building part of it, if not the sailing part.

Pip, I haven't read the comments and did not make any. I read his letter to the town regarding a consent agreement they had reached and it struck me that the project had evolved from his retirement dream to his dream to share his retirement with the world (and accept donations and avoid taxes). I think Willin' was right that I'm a bit cynical at times.

I'm reminded of my friend Dennis, whose retirement dream seems to be to teach kids to sail. He has a 501 c (3). Hey, let's give him a plug:

Charlotte Harbor Community Sailing Center

As Mike points out, he doesn't have this organization. We do. He just gets most of the headaches. Which reminds me, I have to call and tell him my powerboat may not be working in time for the upcoming Kid's Camp.

Upon reflection, I have to say mea culpa and go the Harold. I still think it's a turtle race between his boat and Anne.



#46 Willin'

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 12:26 PM

i like his house, willin. i wouldn't call it a 'dump'. i'm envious of Harold's set up..
Posted Image
it woud look much better with a couple of cute goats and a paint pony in a little day paddock out front
here's his tax page tom, you have to put his name into the form to see it i don't know what the numbers mean. they don't list a selling price so maybe that means the property has been in Harold's family for hundreds of years? it says .55 acres, so maybe the house is a seperate parcel and he does pay taxes as a property owner?

i went back to the original article to read the comments from locals, seems like 99.99% are in favor of his 'keeping things the way they are'. there's only one comment there mentioning the tax exemption..is it yours? ;)
opa1, moving the boat would not be difficult or expensive at all. there are many big old lobsterboats parked on farmland miles from the sea, they truck them through towns (need a permit and the cops stop traffic for you) and splash them all the time.


Wow, Pips, you are one diligent lady!!! Remind me not to stand between you and anything you want! B) I've got room in my boatshed for you (don't tell my wife). Can your goats keep my lawn down?

While that house may look cute to you, it's definitely not helping the neighborhood property values. I checked a friend's house a few doors away on the ocean side of the road and his 1/4 acre property was assessed at $575k.

The one thing that becomes apparant is the the boat isn't even on Harold's land. He only has 1/2 acre. It's on someone else's land and whether Harold is helping with the taxes there or paying rent is none of our business, so the whole tax exemption point becomes moot.

#47 tommays

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 03:44 PM

Posted Image
When you live in a neighborhood of this

Posted Image
And somebody decides to push the zoning rules to the MAX in and area were

Posted Image
Posted Image
Boats and RVs are LEGAL and the norm why the fuck do you piss and moan about property value as you clearly should have built in and area with a fierce HMA to tell what color you can paint your shutters ?

#48 dreaded

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 05:43 PM

i like his house, willin. i wouldn't call it a 'dump'. i'm envious of Harold's set up..
Posted Image
it woud look much better with a couple of cute goats and a paint pony in a little day paddock out front
here's his tax page tom, you have to put his name into the form to see it i don't know what the numbers mean. they don't list a selling price so maybe that means the property has been in Harold's family for hundreds of years? it says .55 acres, so maybe the house is a seperate parcel and he does pay taxes as a property owner?

i went back to the original article to read the comments from locals, seems like 99.99% are in favor of his 'keeping things the way they are'. there's only one comment there mentioning the tax exemption..is it yours? ;)
opa1, moving the boat would not be difficult or expensive at all. there are many big old lobsterboats parked on farmland miles from the sea, they truck them through towns (need a permit and the cops stop traffic for you) and splash them all the time.


no goats , but he does need a dog in the front yard...




#49 pipsqueak

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 09:25 PM

bare with me here, i'm a kid in a candy store..think i just figured out how to multiquote after 6 years here! :D
i'll try to put my comments in red.

Reminds me of a guy I knew who built a 24' canoe in his basement.How the hell do you get it out.


don't mean to sound redundant..try reading for comprehension strongman:
the answer is: ONE PIECE AT A TIME!


i like his house, willin. i wouldn't call it a 'dump'.
oh geez..so sorry..willin' NEVER said 'dump' i don't know where i got that word from Harold! my apologies willin'!



I'm more willing to accept the idea that universities are there to educate people than this fellow, but you are right that his actions show commitment to his dream. Or at least the building part of it, if not the sailing part.
i think he might have taught some students welding? they have a vocational welding class in Thomaston right around the corner, my buddy here took it. maybe Harold assigned them 'homework' extra-curricular opp to practice?
(snipped..plug your buddy on your own thread, Tom! :D)
Upon reflection, I have to say mea culpa and go the Harold. I still think it's a turtle race between his boat and Anne.

yes, but it's not a fair match because harold is not a foreigner in the u s of a. he is a citizen, not someone who is near approaching the end of his 3 month immigration extention. the anne might be fine and dandy rotting up shit's creek for all eternity or until 'noah' turns it into a dancehall, but the foreigners will not be permitted entry for ? much longer..(prob one more 3 month extention then outta heah!)
*practicing my Maine accent to fit in better with my new family..

I've got room in my boatshed for you (don't tell my wife). Can your goats keep my lawn down?

the goats are only a pipe dream at this point willin'. yup! i'm counting on that swanky neighborhood! it looks like it would be primo to ride my pony cart around with fancy goat cheese to sell. (once i learn how to make the stuff)
that is soo sweet of you to offer but it would seem weird staying at your place when i have family just down the street doncha think? ;)
The one thing that becomes apparant is the the boat isn't even on Harold's land. He only has 1/2 acre. It's on someone else's land and whether Harold is helping with the taxes there or paying rent is none of our business, so the whole tax exemption point becomes moot.

he might own the land..that link went to the tax property assessor..not the deeds! if he doesn't pay taxes..maybe it's not listed! or maybe we need to look under the foundation name or a different family name. but i agree..none of our beezewax (though there is nothing wrong with accessing public records imo) i wouldn't have a clue even if it were posted online, i can't do math and i have never owned a pot to piss in and have no background in such wealth as Howard's estate planning..
i think i might go to the council meeting though after checking out the boat..then i could put up a little vid of the whole shebang for everybody and cheerlead for Harold!
willin' maybe you want to join me? there's nothing like getting totally bombed at happy hour and then attending a town hall meeting..trust me, i dated a local reporter for decades! LOL

no goats , but he does need a dog in the front yard...
OMG THAT IS FUNNY!

Posted Image



#50 Willin'

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 11:49 PM


i like his house, willin. i wouldn't call it a 'dump'.
oh geez..so sorry..willin' NEVER said 'dump' i don't know where i got that word from Harold! my apologies willin'!



I'm more willing to accept the idea that universities are there to educate people than this fellow, but you are right that his actions show commitment to his dream. Or at least the building part of it, if not the sailing part.
i think he might have taught some students welding? they have a vocational welding class in Thomaston right around the corner, my buddy here took it. maybe Harold assigned them 'homework' extra-curricular opp to practice?
(snipped..plug your buddy on your own thread, Tom! :D)
Upon reflection, I have to say mea culpa and go the Harold. I still think it's a turtle race between his boat and Anne.

[

I've got room in my boatshed for you (don't tell my wife). Can your goats keep my lawn down?

the goats are only a pipe dream at this point willin'. yup! i'm counting on that swanky neighborhood! it looks like it would be primo to ride my pony cart around with fancy goat cheese to sell. (once i learn how to make the stuff)
that is soo sweet of you to offer but it would seem weird staying at your place when i have family just down the street doncha think? ;)
The one thing that becomes apparant is the the boat isn't even on Harold's land. He only has 1/2 acre. It's on someone else's land and whether Harold is helping with the taxes there or paying rent is none of our business, so the whole tax exemption point becomes moot.

he might own the land..that link went to the tax property assessor..not the deeds! if he doesn't pay taxes..maybe it's not listed! or maybe we need to look under the foundation name or a different family name. but i agree..none of our beezewax (though there is nothing wrong with accessing public records imo) i wouldn't have a clue even if it were posted online, i can't do math and i have never owned a pot to piss in and have no background in such wealth as Howard's estate planning..
i think i might go to the council meeting though after checking out the boat..then i could put up a little vid of the whole shebang for everybody and cheerlead for Harold!
willin' maybe you want to join me? there's nothing like getting totally bombed at happy hour and then attending a town hall meeting..trust me, i dated a local reporter for decades! LOL

no goats , but he does need a dog in the front yard...
OMG THAT IS FUNNY!

Posted Image


Hey Pips, I guess I should have realized you were a local but somehow didn't have a clue.

I'm always up for getting sloshed at happy hour, but I'll leave Freeport's town meeting to you, it's all I can do to not get too frustrated with crap here in the Burg.

Incidentally, a further investigation of Freeport's tax rolls reveals the land the boat and shop are on, two contiguous lots, are currently owned by the Island Rover Foundation. That's all I have to say about it, I don't care if it's a tax dodge, a retirement dream or a scam...Go the Harold!

As far as the boat being a teaching platform, I suspect it will never get off the ground. There are already too many foundations out there with the same mission that are learning that getting the boat built is the easy part. Maine's First Ship and (I believe it's called) Spirit of South Carolina have both learned the hard lesson that an operating endowment is far more important than the tangible asset of the boat. Plus, personally, just as with the Virginia of Sagadahoc, I don't find Island Rover to be a boat that would inspire people to want to go to sea on her. She's not gonna be a pretty boat.

Even so, Go the Harold! He's out there doing it while we sit here typing!


Oh yeah, Pips, his name is Harold, you may want to edit that cute photo.

#51 Snaggletooth

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:10 AM

Oh yeah, Pips, his name is Harold, you may want to edit that cute photo.

GO TEH HOWARD!!!!! :)




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