36 replies to this topic

[Captain Slow]

After lurking for awhile, I'm finally compelled to join the forum and post because I can't find a concise answer to my question anywhere on the web. I live in the Northeast, and I grew up sailing for a club and my high school on Cape Cod. Except for the occasional gig as ballast on a J/105, I stopped sailing when I went to college, and now that I'm a few years out, I want to pick it back up. I'm really hoping to get some advice on how to get back into dinghy racing, or at least a little perspective on whether I'm trying to do too much too quickly. I'd love to go out and dump a bunch of money into a 505 or 49er campaign and jet around the world racing dinghies/skiffs, but I need to work within my budget. I thought about joining a club, but I live near the Hudson north of Manhattan and all the clubs are EXPENSIVE, you have to join as crew, and they all sail J/24's, which is bigger than what I want to get back into. So this has left me searching for a dinghy that I could enjoy myself, bring (a few) friends out in, or race. Here are my ideal requirements:

MUST
- Easily trailerable/riggable, so that I can store it at my home.
- 15-19ft, preferably sloop rigged.
- Sailable by one person in moderate conditions, competitive racing for two people, room for 3-4 if out with friends.
- Reasonable cost used. Under $2,000, though I would prefer to stay near $1000-1500

PREFER
- Spinnaker is highly desired, trapeze would be nice but I know that means a more expensive class boat.
- Self draining cockpit.
- Reasonably quick up wind - I'm coming out of 420's, and don't want to downgrade on speed
- Ability to hike out
- Active racing class within a few hours drive of RI, MA, Tri-State area
- Handsome lines (as in, good looking boat. Very subjective, I know)

NICE BUT NOT NECESSARY
- High performance hull, upwind planing if possible, though not so high strung that it would be dangerous to bring amateur sailors aboard in 8-10kts of breeze
- asymmetrical spinnaker
- Covered foredeck (like Daysailer, Albacore, Flying Dutchman)

If I weren't so big ( 6', 195lbs) I'd just go buy another 420 and be done with it. But I really want to take this opportunity to look into something that I can enjoy with others. With a 420, it's either race or nothing. I want a boat where I at least have a fighting chance of staying dry in if I want to go out for a casual cruise in light breeze. I know this is basically asking for a silver bullet, but there are soooo many classes out there, there must be one that fits a majority of the criteria. I also understand that for the money I'm looking to spend, I'm not going to get a particularly competitive boat for racing. I'm less worried about my ability to compete in races than I am about picking a class that is a nice balance of my requirements. As I become more familiar with whatever I choose, I can upgrade down the road if I deciding becoming competitive is important to me. Let me tell you what classes I have looked at so far (mainly focused on boats which I believe to have fairly active fleets):
- Vanguard 15
- Daysailer
- Albacore
- Snipe
- Lightning
- VX One
- Flying Dutchman
- RS Vision/Venture

The Vanguard, Albacore, and Snipe all suffer from the same problem: no spinnaker. The Daysailer tends to not support spinnakers, though I have seen them on some boats. The Lightning, Flying Dutchman, and VX One are all on the large side of things for me (~19'), and they are also incredibly expensive (at least the ones I saw on the ORG websites). That pretty much leaves the RS Vision, which would be a lovely little boat if it weren't HIDEOUS (IMHO). It's also the smallest boat (15') and really only has room for 2, maybe 3. It's big sister, the Venture, is a decent option (still not beautiful), but I can't seem to find much fleet information for them in the United States. Lastly: expensive, since they're new to market. The next best option is the Daysailer because they are plentiful, cheap, and there are regular races. It's even the optimal size (17'). But you can't hike out, and even sitting on the gunwales is painful because of the cockpit lip. I also recall them being pigs in the water, only capable of being "speedy" on a reach.

Realistically, my perfect boat would be an Albacore with a spinnaker. It's a planing hull, you can sit inside the boat when cruising, but you can also hike out when the wind starts blowing or you want to do some high-speed reaches. The class racing presence could be better, but they can be found cheap. What do other forum members think? I can't imagine I'm the only one looking for a medium/large dinghy which I could go racing or bring friends out in that is inexpensive to maintain. Am I asking too much? Do I need a reality check?

Thanks in advance. Old Albacore pictured below, for those who are unfamiliar.

[Crump's Brother]

- Reasonable cost used. Under $2,000, though I would prefer to stay near $1000-1500

PREFER
- Spinnaker is highly desired, trapeze would be nice but I know that means a more expensive class boat.

THAT'S not much of a budget bro..Just sayin'...

KN

[Disambiguated]

I was in the same mindset earlier this year. In my case I was trying to find something I could sail myself and occasionally take the whole family. What I've come to is that I really want is to race an MC Scow, and might wind up with a second boat for the family if they show interest. In other words, I picked the most likely mission and optimized it.

If you're needing to put four in the boat, then the RS Vision or Laser Bahia are both possibilities. You won't find either in your price range, and most likely you'd only find Portsmouth racing. The Vanguard 15 is a two person boat, and has no spinnaker. I have a little time in a Snipe, and that's no more than a two person boat. I imagine you could single hand it in the right conditions.

You didn't mention the Thistle, are there fleets in your area? Normally they race with three. I'm also going to defer to the Thistle sailors here as to whether it could be single handed, I imagine it helps that you're a big guy. You can probably find an older one fairly reasonably, although maybe not for $2K. That's not a lot of money for a boat, I just dropped that much on a bicycle.

I'm not a candidate for a wooden boat, but that Albacore is just stunning.

[Captain Slow]

I agree, $2000 is not a ton, and I won't pretend to be shocked. If i could get a crap boat for $2k or a decent boat for $3000, then i'll wait to buy the better boat. I need to figure out where that price break is. But it is these opinions which I'm looking for! Also, i haven't looked at thistles. Are those a good alternative? I'll check it out, i know nothing about them.

[Tcatman]

How far are you willing to drive to race your boat...?

How often ... eg how many weekends are you looking to commit to?

How many boats on the line do you consider a proper race.... eg ... worth coming back for next years regatta?

Answer those questions for yourself... then look around and evaluate fleet turnouts, schedules, etc at the regattas you could make.

You will not have many options left at that point.

[Captain Slow]

How far are you willing to drive to race your boat...?

How often ... eg how many weekends are you looking to commit to?

How many boats on the line do you consider a proper race.... eg ... worth coming back for next years regatta?

Answer those questions for yourself... then look around and evaluate fleet turnouts, schedules, etc at the regattas you could make.

You will not have many options left at that point.

Good points that I hadn't given full consideration to. Coming from 420's and races like Buzzards Bay, Hyannis, and others of those caliber, I'm used to being on the line with 100+ other boats. I think when stepping up to a new class, I'd be happy if I could race 5-10 other boats if the races were monthly (i.e. an evening series) or 30-50 if it were a large event like a north american's or part of a multi-class event. I know at Buzzards Bay they race Vanguard 15's... I think some of the Long Island Sound yacht clubs also do races for that hull. If I know I can go to a race where it is a large event in that 30-50 boat range then I would be willing to drive 300 miles with the boat. Doing midwinters in Mexico and Barbados is not for me, however. I'm really hoping some people who race these different boats will chime in and share their thoughts! I guess the next step would be to send emails to each class president, but if I can collect the information from a single point like this message board, I would prefer to go about it that way.

Thanks for all your input, keep it coming!

[Steam Flyer]

How far are you willing to drive to race your boat...?

How often ... eg how many weekends are you looking to commit to?

How many boats on the line do you consider a proper race.... eg ... worth coming back for next years regatta?

Answer those questions for yourself... then look around and evaluate fleet turnouts, schedules, etc at the regattas you could make.

You will not have many options left at that point.

Sad but true. There's just not that many active dinghy classes. Research into the class & fleet activities will be key for this, go to some events and see for yourself... get a crew spot maybe... also you can save up more money while continuing the search.

There's two ways to go about it. One is to pick THE BOAT you want, and then race with/against whoever/wherever people have chosen the same boat. This is how I've always done it, and since I've been in a bunch of different classes maybe some would say it wasn't a success. OTOH I had a lot of fun.

About money- sailing is a relatively expensive sport. I've rebuilt a bunch of cheapo beaters, and it's my belief (born out of observation) that a competitive boat will end up costing at least 1/2 of the price of a brand-new boat, excluding sails. You will just plain have to buy new sails every other year or so, to stay with the front row of sailors in most competitive classes.

Good points that I hadn't given full consideration to. Coming from 420's and races like Buzzards Bay, Hyannis, and others of those caliber, I'm used to being on the line with 100+ other boats. I think when stepping up to a new class, I'd be happy if I could race 5-10 other boats if the races were monthly (i.e. an evening series) or 30-50 if it were a large event like a north american's or part of a multi-class event. I know at Buzzards Bay they race Vanguard 15's... I think some of the Long Island Sound yacht clubs also do races for that hull. If I know I can go to a race where it is a large event in that 30-50 boat range then I would be willing to drive 300 miles with the boat. Doing midwinters in Mexico and Barbados is not for me, however. I'm really hoping some people who race these different boats will chime in and share their thoughts! I guess the next step would be to send emails to each class president, but if I can collect the information from a single point like this message board, I would prefer to go about it that way.

Thanks for all your input, keep it coming!

No substitute for doing homework & legwork. You're making a signficant investment in both time & money so spend a little beforehand to get the best info.

All active one-design sailors will give you the same advice: "Buy a boat like mine, my class is the best, the greatest, etc etc." Some will denigrate other similar boats at the same time. So, pick a boat/class based on who tickles your prejudices best?

From what I know about current US East Coast low-cost one-designs-

Albacores
V-15... Neither has a spinnaker which reduces cost as well as simplifying racing

Tasar- awesome boat, mostly on the West Coast AFAIK

Snipe
Windmill... old-school no-spinnaker 2 person fun boats, may be a fleet near you or maybe not

Comet... another old-school no-spinnaker fun boat with much bigger sails, at least one or two fleets still around

470- the 420 for grown-ups, only it's not a Club boat and takes much more care. I love this boat having raced them quite seriously but there are only a few active classes here & there now.

Flying Scot

Thistle (some places)... sail one before buying, many (myself included) consider these to be torture

Lightning... a classic, somewhat of a torture box and much tweakier than the Thistle
...note both Thistle and Lightning need 3 persons, both available in sailing shape <$2k but will cost a lot more to be competitive

Jet 14... only a couple of fleets but inexpensive & fun

Buccaneer 18

Daysailer

... many will turn up their nose at these two but they are good sailing 2-man spinnaker boats with good active classes and can be put on the line for low $$

5O5... great boat but complex, beaters avail ~$2~3k and will cost a lot to get into arms race.

You may want to look into scow or catamaran classes too

FB- Doug

[eliboat]

Its over your budget, but there's a moth going for 4k on here. That's a great deal and a boat that you can find some great racing in the east, plus it's a he'll of a lot more fun and cooler than an Albacore. You could also be in a sorted 110 for 3k... That's another great deal.

[Captain Slow]

What are maintenance costs like on the 110? The ones I saw in a quick search were wood or wood/epoxy construction. It's a bit bigger than I was prepared for, and it's a keelboat which I also hadn't really considered. It's a beautiful boat, but I worry about how easy it would be to store/transport. Also, can it be sailed single handed? I do like that it is fairly active near where I live, though it is a smaller fleet.

[Captain Slow]

Doug, thanks for all of the information. You're probably right that I should just find a boat that suits my needs, and then from there see what is available for competition. I would hate to buy a boat just because it has strong class support, and then not enjoy sailing it the other 90% of the time I'm on the water.

As I continue to research and find options I didn't know about before, I seem to keep coming back to the Buccaneer 18 and the Daysailer. The daysailer is (I suspect) a bit harder to find rigged with a spinnaker, but the class support is great. I grew up on Cape Cod, so I am very familiar with the class. The one thing I don't know is how hard it is to find a DS with a spinnaker... my club never raced with them, but I'd love it if someone could provide a bit more info on that. The Buccaneer is a boat that I find very interesting (love that it flies an asymmetrical spin!), and not one I knew existed when I started my search. Anyone here ever sailed one? From photos, it looks to me like they have less freeboard than a DS, and therefor might be a fairly "wet" boat to sail in even moderate conditions, but again, I'd love to hear more from someone with more experience. I don't mind getting soaking wet when racing, but if I want to head out for a casual sail, I'd like to be able to stay dry if I want to. I harp on this because I used to sail 420's, in which there is absolutely no hope of ever staying dry, and I'd like to step up to something that is still sporty, but a bit more civilized.

Thanks for all of the input!

[eliboat]

Maintenance costs will depend on how sorted the boat you pick up is set up. There are a few really nice boats available for $3500 and under, and a few of these are actually glass boats. With some reasonable care and regular sailing, the boats are pretty easy to keep going, and at that point it comes down to how much you are willing to spend on sails going forward. I sail a woodie 110, and these tend to get a big rehab every 8-10 years, with good service in between. 110's plane easily, can be trailered by a station wagon, and yes they can be sailed single handed if you want to just go cruising around. For that, and extendable tiller extension is nice, because then you can drive from the wire. Check out the International 110 Facebook page if you're interested.

[Captain Slow]

Maintenance costs will depend on how sorted the boat you pick up is set up. There are a few really nice boats available for $3500 and under, and a few of these are actually glass boats. With some reasonable care and regular sailing, the boats are pretty easy to keep going, and at that point it comes down to how much you are willing to spend on sails going forward. I sail a woodie 110, and these tend to get a big rehab every 8-10 years, with good service in between. 110's plane easily, can be trailered by a station wagon, and yes they can be sailed single handed if you want to just go cruising around. For that, and extendable tiller extension is nice, because then you can drive from the wire. Check out the International 110 Facebook page if you're interested.

Awesome, thanks for all the info! Are all of the 110's fixed keel?

[eliboat]

Maintenance costs will depend on how sorted the boat you pick up is set up. There are a few really nice boats available for $3500 and under, and a few of these are actually glass boats. With some reasonable care and regular sailing, the boats are pretty easy to keep going, and at that point it comes down to how much you are willing to spend on sails going forward. I sail a woodie 110, and these tend to get a big rehab every 8-10 years, with good service in between. 110's plane easily, can be trailered by a station wagon, and yes they can be sailed single handed if you want to just go cruising around. For that, and extendable tiller extension is nice, because then you can drive from the wire. Check out the International 110 Facebook page if you're interested.

Awesome, thanks for all the info! Are all of the 110's fixed keel?

Yes

[Boats13]

Harpoon 5.2..... or 4.6

[Captain Slow]

Hmmm... didn't know boston whaler made sailboats at all! The 5.2 seems like a nice boat, I like that they appear to have plenty of freeboard (for a dinghy). Are all of them rigged for spinnakers, or was that an option?

[donuttakedonuts]

Where are you living/planning to sail in the NE? Daysailer seems like a great boat to sail around here - i know of quite a few fleets around on Cape Cod, and the boats are in fact quite often rigged with a chute.

unless you want to start a 29er campaign with me...

[Captain Slow]

Where are you living/planning to sail in the NE? Daysailer seems like a great boat to sail around here - i know of quite a few fleets around on Cape Cod, and the boats are in fact quite often rigged with a chute.

unless you want to start a 29er campaign with me...

I am living about 30 minutes north of NYC, on the west side of the hudson. If I sail here, I'd probably drive down to Manhattan or sail out of Nyack. Long Island sound fleets are pretty much out of the question for me in terms of casual evening races during the week, but I could easily make it there (or further) for regattas/weekend races. I grew up on Cape Cod and still have family there, so sailing pretty much anywhere from NYC up to Boston is feasible for me. I heard through some offline sources also that Daysailers are often rigged with spinnakers... I guess I just never noticed, or they were never really used at my club. I sailed out of Stage Harbor (Cape Cod) for most of my life. Definitely a strong fleet here in the northeast though. I also learned that some have hiking straps! I didn't think they had those either, so I guess I had some serious misconceptions about the class. I think the only other thing that would deter me is that coaming around the cockpit, but I guess I could always cut that down to be flush with the gunwales (as long as that is kosher per class rules ). For all of the time I've been nearby great fleets though, I've never spent any quality time in a Daysailer. Would anyone describe them as "sporty" or "fast"? They seem to me to be a pretty average cruiser that it just so happens you can race because of the number of boats out there. I don't think they were designed with excitement or competition in mind... if I recall, they were supposed to be a stable family cruiser. Perhaps this is a misconception as well though?!


I've always wanted to sail a 29er, but I never got the chance. I think I'm a bit heavy for those boats now though (~195lbs). Maybe a 49er is the answer! Now that is one boat that is on the other end of the spectrum from the Daysailer!

[kmccabe]

Thanks in advance. Old Albacore pictured below, for those who are unfamiliar.

that's just mind numbingly gorgeous....

[shanghaisailor]

Hey Captain Slow

i am surprised no one has mentioned the Wayfarer which has by far the greatest reputation as a cruising dinghy.

16'6'' long, can be cruised and raced.

check out a couple of books of voyages in the Wayferer probably still available on Amazon

"Sailing to the edge of Fear" & "Ocean Crossing Wayfarer" by Frank Dye and also "The Biggest Boat I Could Afford" by Lee Hughes.

the latter is about a trip up the whole intercoastal highway in a Wayfarer. The first one tells the tale of a crossing from Scotland to Norway in a Wayfarer where they encountered storm force winds (F9)and lived to tell the tale.

An incredible strong and seaworthy boat, used by dozens of sailing schools and probably been seriously cruised further than any other so called cruising dinghies.

With a boom tent there is even room to sleep on the floorboards without being all huddled up.

Definately one which should be on your shopping list.

hope this helps

See ya on the water

Cheers

Shanghai Sailor

[Steam Flyer]

Doug, thanks for all of the information. You're probably right that I should just find a boat that suits my needs, and then from there see what is available for competition. I would hate to buy a boat just because it has strong class support, and then not enjoy sailing it the other 90% of the time I'm on the water.

As I continue to research and find options I didn't know about before, I seem to keep coming back to the Buccaneer 18 and the Daysailer. The daysailer is (I suspect) a bit harder to find rigged with a spinnaker, but the class support is great. I grew up on Cape Cod, so I am very familiar with the class. The one thing I don't know is how hard it is to find a DS with a spinnaker... my club never raced with them, but I'd love it if someone could provide a bit more info on that. The Buccaneer is a boat that I find very interesting (love that it flies an asymmetrical spin!), and not one I knew existed when I started my search. Anyone here ever sailed one? From photos, it looks to me like they have less freeboard than a DS, and therefor might be a fairly "wet" boat to sail in even moderate conditions, but again, I'd love to hear more from someone with more experience. I don't mind getting soaking wet when racing, but if I want to head out for a casual sail, I'd like to be able to stay dry if I want to. I harp on this because I used to sail 420's, in which there is absolutely no hope of ever staying dry, and I'd like to step up to something that is still sporty, but a bit more civilized.

Thanks for all of the input!

Botht the DS and the Buccaneer are going to be drier than than a 420 but still likely to at least douse you with spray any time there's enough wind/wave to actually be fun to sail. The biggest adjustment to make in sailing them IMHO is likely to be the bench seating (as opposed to tank seats like the FJ and 420), which (again IMHO) is a PITA on any boat less than about 22 ft. The dimensions in the cockpit are just too small, and you can't hike all that comfortably. Still, both boats are more stable & roomy than the 420 and -much- better for daysailing with friends.

'Sporty but civilized' is a great specificaion but it's also very personal... I've been looking for that boat myself for about 45 years and found that everything out there is either too demanding for casual daysailing OR too boring... seems like a big gap in between! Just a matter of personal taste. Probably the boat that fit best for me was the Lightning but that is a boat which is designed to be left rigged up at a club. It takes 3 skilled men about an hour to prep it for sailing, road to water, and vice versa.

Of these two, the Bucc is more sporty for sure but it looks like there are more Daysailers around your area. I sailed an old beat-up Buccaneer for a few years, didn't race it seriously. We put a Lightning spinnaker on it for more excitement, I always thought about putting a trap on it too. Handsome boat, a bit on the tippy side but still nothing like a 420.

Definitely check on class/fleet activity in your area. It looks like there's a lot fo V-15s, JY-15s, Lightnings, Thistles, and some Daysailer fleets... Nyack has Lightnings and Ensigns., the CT shore has a little of everything.

FB- Doug

[Mr. Swordfish]

Realistically, my perfect boat would be an Albacore with a spinnaker. It's a planing hull, you can sit inside the boat when cruising, but you can also hike out when the wind starts blowing or you want to do some high-speed reaches. The class racing presence could be better, but they can be found cheap. What do other forum members think? I can't imagine I'm the only one looking for a medium/large dinghy which I could go racing or bring friends out in that is inexpensive to maintain. Am I asking too much? Do I need a reality check?

It's possible to put a spinnaker on an Albacore - it's been done a bunch of times, you're just not allowed to use it when racing. So if you really like the boat otherwise and are inclined towards tinkering this might be a viable option.

It's also possible to put trapeze wires on an Albacore. Many Canadian sailing schools and camps have outfitted Albacores with spin and trap so they can do CYA Silver Sail and Gold Sail certification.

Of course, there are other fine boats out there. You need to find the one that's right for you.

[Blackjack2]

After lurking for awhile, I'm finally compelled to join the forum and post because I can't find a concise answer to my question anywhere on the web. I live in the Northeast, and I grew up sailing for a club and my high school on Cape Cod. Except for the occasional gig as ballast on a J/105, I stopped sailing when I went to college, and now that I'm a few years out, I want to pick it back up. I'm really hoping to get some advice on how to get back into dinghy racing, or at least a little perspective on whether I'm trying to do too much too quickly. I'd love to go out and dump a bunch of money into a 505 or 49er campaign and jet around the world racing dinghies/skiffs, but I need to work within my budget. I thought about joining a club, but I live near the Hudson north of Manhattan and all the clubs are EXPENSIVE, you have to join as crew, and they all sail J/24's, which is bigger than what I want to get back into. So this has left me searching for a dinghy that I could enjoy myself, bring (a few) friends out in, or race. Here are my ideal requirements:

MUST
- Easily trailerable/riggable, so that I can store it at my home.
- 15-19ft, preferably sloop rigged.
- Sailable by one person in moderate conditions, competitive racing for two people, room for 3-4 if out with friends.
- Reasonable cost used. Under $2,000, though I would prefer to stay near $1000-1500

PREFER
- Spinnaker is highly desired, trapeze would be nice but I know that means a more expensive class boat.
- Self draining cockpit.
- Reasonably quick up wind - I'm coming out of 420's, and don't want to downgrade on speed
- Ability to hike out
- Active racing class within a few hours drive of RI, MA, Tri-State area
- Handsome lines (as in, good looking boat. Very subjective, I know)

NICE BUT NOT NECESSARY
- High performance hull, upwind planing if possible, though not so high strung that it would be dangerous to bring amateur sailors aboard in 8-10kts of breeze
- asymmetrical spinnaker
- Covered foredeck (like Daysailer, Albacore, Flying Dutchman)

If I weren't so big ( 6', 195lbs) I'd just go buy another 420 and be done with it. But I really want to take this opportunity to look into something that I can enjoy with others. With a 420, it's either race or nothing. I want a boat where I at least have a fighting chance of staying dry in if I want to go out for a casual cruise in light breeze. I know this is basically asking for a silver bullet, but there are soooo many classes out there, there must be one that fits a majority of the criteria. I also understand that for the money I'm looking to spend, I'm not going to get a particularly competitive boat for racing. I'm less worried about my ability to compete in races than I am about picking a class that is a nice balance of my requirements. As I become more familiar with whatever I choose, I can upgrade down the road if I deciding becoming competitive is important to me. Let me tell you what classes I have looked at so far (mainly focused on boats which I believe to have fairly active fleets):
- Vanguard 15
- Daysailer
- Albacore
- Snipe
- Lightning
- VX One
- Flying Dutchman
- RS Vision/Venture

The Vanguard, Albacore, and Snipe all suffer from the same problem: no spinnaker. The Daysailer tends to not support spinnakers, though I have seen them on some boats. The Lightning, Flying Dutchman, and VX One are all on the large side of things for me (~19'), and they are also incredibly expensive (at least the ones I saw on the ORG websites). That pretty much leaves the RS Vision, which would be a lovely little boat if it weren't HIDEOUS (IMHO). It's also the smallest boat (15') and really only has room for 2, maybe 3. It's big sister, the Venture, is a decent option (still not beautiful), but I can't seem to find much fleet information for them in the United States. Lastly: expensive, since they're new to market. The next best option is the Daysailer because they are plentiful, cheap, and there are regular races. It's even the optimal size (17'). But you can't hike out, and even sitting on the gunwales is painful because of the cockpit lip. I also recall them being pigs in the water, only capable of being "speedy" on a reach.

Realistically, my perfect boat would be an Albacore with a spinnaker. It's a planing hull, you can sit inside the boat when cruising, but you can also hike out when the wind starts blowing or you want to do some high-speed reaches. The class racing presence could be better, but they can be found cheap. What do other forum members think? I can't imagine I'm the only one looking for a medium/large dinghy which I could go racing or bring friends out in that is inexpensive to maintain. Am I asking too much? Do I need a reality check?

Thanks in advance. Old Albacore pictured below, for those who are unfamiliar.

The Daysailers Do support Spinnakers....Look at the regional and national reports. the reason U didn't find any concise answer is because there isn't any. There's a FS on ebay right now that fits your budget and 4 person requirements. Daysailers easily sail to their ratings above 10 kts (with all the class allowable upgrades) but in light air are dog slow if your content to race portsmouth.
You probably need to sleep on it for a while and U will do your own reality check. BTW, the trap/no trap thing is a biggy if U want to race fleets

[Boats13]

Hmmm... didn't know boston whaler made sailboats at all! The 5.2 seems like a nice boat, I like that they appear to have plenty of freeboard (for a dinghy). Are all of them rigged for spinnakers, or was that an option?

Option, but most have them. Boom tent, snap-on cuddy and Lots of Room. Friendliest bunch I have ever run into on the web in the Yahoo group for them. They send out an email digest each day to everyone that opts for it. Known problems, fixes, pictures, videos and resources for parts and supplies. ( www.ruach.net?) I think. They have all the specs, etc on there. APS has hardware, North has the original sail measurements and BW still sells the rubrail kits.

[oddsailor]

I got a DS1 and I fitted hiking straps (aka old seat belts) in and got rid of the wood so that we can hike off the gunwale. It's a fun boat and 4 adults are perfectly fine in it. Most I had in are 6 adults - all strategically placed!

I don't have a spin on it, but would love to get one - since I'm not racing it (cottage boat on Georgian Bay) I'll do some frankenstein-thing and fit a sprit and put a F18 kite on it for the 4-6kt winds I usually am asked to take friends and family out on.

The bottom's flat and it will surf down waves in more than 12-14kts quite easily even with just white sails up. Other than that, check the hull to make sure it doesn't have 'trailer waves' from sitting on one for too long. There is also wood inside the gunwale that the jib cars tracks are screwed to and it tends to rot - on mine it's all gone and I had to put secure them with longer bolts and an aluminum backplate.

4 of us went camping with it and all our backpacks, 2 coolers, tents, chairs, etc fit nicely under the deck for the 3h sail to the campground where we just beached it to all the other sailing boats surprise.

I think the DS, Wayfarer and possibly that 5.2 are about the same thing, give-or-take. It does the dry daysailing with friends and if there is a fleet to race against, the racing, too. I think it's more of a question of which one is more popular in your area so that you can do both.

[Hobie Dog]

Good on you for posting in DA first to avoid the Newbie greeting. But tradition is tradition so Fuck Off Newbie!

I have a Buccaneer 18. Nice boats. The freeboard is a little low so can be a wet boat but we are talking dinghies under 19' they ALL are going to be wet if there is any wave action. But dryer than your 420. We have a good fleet in the Mid-Atlantic and have a lot of fun. We have 9 at our club in Solomons, MD (SMSA). They are symmetrical kite boats not A-sails like you said. But they have a cool spinnaker snout in the bow so easy to handle and plane very easy downwind in anything over 10.

Good Luck in your search!

[donuttakedonuts]

I sailed out of Stage Harbor (Cape Cod) for most of my life.

Nowai. You're talking to a current Stage Harbor sailor. PM me?

[muelldawg]

Thistle is a wonderful class. It seems to have everything you are looking for. I was surprised you did not identify it in your list.

[WillSail4Beer]

At the price point you described. You're looking at a bunch of bombed out flexible fiberglass boats that will almost never ever be competitive, even with decent sails/rigging which you will definitely be adding down the road. Racing J24s in Manhattan is fine if you're just trying to scratch an itch in the city. But it is what it is. It is the sailing equivalent of belonging to an overpriced gym with subpar equipment. The membership cost there (even just to crew) will have you well on your way to your $2K dinghy to travel the Northeast with.

You said you live up North on the Hudson, which means you should buy a Lightning or Thistle and sail at Nyack and Cedar Point as well as all the other venues from the MidAtlantic through the Northeast.

A class in which wood boats are still competitive is really your best bet at being competitive at your price point.

[Amati]

Modern interesting stuff by a master of dinghy design

http://www.bluelightning.co.uk/

Other cool stuff

http://www.swallowboats.com/

And

http://www.bergner-b...ml?20er-jk.html

All out of your price point, but boat porn is boat porn...

Although some of the kits might work.

[knights of mayhem]

You might want to consider a Wayfarer mk 4
www.npboats.com

[dolphinmaster]

Thanks in advance. Old Albacore pictured below, for those who are unfamiliar.

that's just mind numbingly gorgeous....

Yea, for the moment he gets a pass on posting pics of his wife's or GF's tits

[Wayfarer1071]

Like a few others have mentioned, I would strongly urge you to look at a Wayfarer. They have a kite, they are one hell of a lot faster than a DS, and as a former Albacore sailor, imho a much nicer boat. They are bigger than an Albacore and more stable. All the talk of planning and surfing can all be readily done in a Wayfarer. In addition, the double chines make for a nice planing boat and they don't pound when going up wind in waves. An excellent all around boat. A sailors boat, in my opinion. You can do most anything with them, race, cruise, or just daysail.

They can be found in both wood and fibreglass. The new boats are known to be pretty fast, but for me the woodie is the way to go. They look better, smell better, and sound better (they have a soft sound but are still very stiff).

I would look at a Wayfarer. I guarantee you won't regret it. The class has organized racing, and cruising.

[Speng]

See, what you want is a clapped out RS400 or Laser2000. Too bad you live in this country...

You might also want to consider THE DARKSIDE!^TM i hear they have cookies and a few clubs in your area. You can probably pick up a beater Hobie/Prindle/Nacra for the dosh you're talking about.

[Captain Slow]

I love all these suggestions! I haven't checked back on this post in a little while, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that the conversation has carried on without me. The wayfarer is a pretty interesting look... might give the Bucc 18 I was thinking of buying some competition. Thanks to all who have weighed in!

[IanMac5873]

the wayfarer is a great boat for sure

[Kraftwerk]

Come Dyer Dhow Frostbiting this winter and you wil have time to think about what boat to buy in the Springtime.

[Gray Ghost]

MUST
- Easily trailerable/riggable, so that I can store it at my home.
- 15-19ft, preferably sloop rigged.
- Sailable by one person in moderate conditions, competitive racing for two people, room for 3-4 if out with friends.
- Reasonable cost used. Under $2,000, though I would prefer to stay near $1000-1500

PREFER
- Spinnaker is highly desired
- Reasonably quick up wind - I'm coming out of 420's, and don't want to downgrade on speed
- Ability to hike out
- Active racing class within a few hours drive of RI, MA, Tri-State area
- Handsome lines (as in, good looking boat. Very subjective, I know)

NICE BUT NOT NECESSARY
- not so high strung that it would be dangerous to bring amateur sailors aboard in 8-10kts of breeze
- Covered foredeck

All of the above are met by the Flying Scot. There were a few of your criteria it didn't meet.

The Scot doesn't meet your trapeze or high-performance-upwind desires, but what boat does, which can also carry up to four people when "out with friends." However, the Scot will be plenty faster upwind than a 420.

The Scot is not fashionable but has an extremely strong class with a lot of excellent sailors in it. Because Scots last forever if properly cared for, you can find a 30 or 40 year old boat in the $3000 to $4000 range which can be made club-race-competitive. However in the $1500-$2000 range you probably can't a find a boat (in any class) which can be made race competitive.