63 replies to this topic

[DiasDePlaya]

Please help me choose a boat about 37 feet to compete in IRC. 37' because the biggest fleet here is 35'-36', and sailing in front you have some strategic advantage.

Three friends and I have a long history of races won from the time of the IOR, we can do very well in a boat race.
But we do not want to fill the boat with crew to sit on the gunwale.
The most important races are run here in Chile with very light winds under 10 knots, and sometimes below 5 knots. Other important races are long downwind of 24 hours or more, so I have a theory that a small crew in a boat very light with simplified maneuver can achieve good results in these races sacrificing competitiveness in high-wind W/L sailing.

For this, what boat would you choose?

[sunseeker]

Ask DoRag. He'll probably tell you a J105 with one of his bottom fairing jobs is the answer.

[wcnann]

Check out the new Dufour 36p. We just got the first two into the US and our unendorsed IRC rating is 1.031. Retracable sprit, A-kites, double spreader rig. Here's a link to the manufacturer's webpage...http://www.dufour-yachts.com/sailing/yachts/performance/36. We're the New England dealer if you're in the area and interested. www.northstaryachtsales.com She will be on display at the Newport and Annapolis Boat Shows.

[Doug Lord]

You might check out the DSS equipped Infinity 36GT ( not sure about IRC). Excellent video here: http://www.facebook....151138287219913
A DSS boat gets a large portion of its stability from the DSS foil which works to its advantage in light air when the foil isn't used. In light air the foil is retracted but the sail area is still there giving it more power in light condiions than a "normal" boat. The Quant 28 has cleaned up on the Swiss lakes this summer in all conditions beating much larger boats boat for boat. http://www.quant-boats.com/home.html

pix from Quant 28 site ( http://www.quant-boats.com/news.html ) :

Attached Files

•  Infiniti36_3 st tropez 1st boat.jpg   52.04K   83 downloads
•  Infinity 36.jpg   38.91K   98 downloads
•  infiniti36 first boat sailing St.Topez.jpg   33.02K   71 downloads

[DiasDePlaya]

The Dufour 36 is a 6400 kg boat, I don't like heavy boats.

The Infinity looks more a day sailer than a IRC boat. Is IRC legal? I founded that the DSS is IRC legal, but the boat?

[Loco.]

I think there is a Sydney 40 in Chile.

Are they anywhere near you?

Not suggesting that's what to buy. Just curious as that's my ride

[DiasDePlaya]

Yes, in Algarrobo you can find 3 or 4 Sydney 40.

This is a Chilean Sydney 40: http://www.sydneyyac...y-victoria.html

[mezaire]

The General!!

[Crouton]

Please help me choose a boat about 37 feet to compete in IRC. 37' because the biggest fleet here is 35'-36', and sailing in front you have some strategic advantage.

Three friends and I have a long history of races won from the time of the IOR, we can do very well in a boat race.
But we do not want to fill the boat with crew to sit on the gunwale.
The most important races are run here in Chile with very light winds under 10 knots, and sometimes below 5 knots. Other important races are long downwind of 24 hours or more, so I have a theory that a small crew in a boat very light with simplified maneuver can achieve good results in these races sacrificing competitiveness in high-wind W/L sailing.

For this, what boat would you choose?

http://www.sydneyyachts.com/yachts/sydney-GTS37/GTS37-poster.html

[Swanno (Ohf Shore)]

The General!!

Haha mez, I was thinking the same thing

[corkob]

Archambault A35 or x 35 or First 35

[MSA]

At 4.5 and 5.5t I doubt that is on the right side of the weight spectrum he mentioned..

[hughw]

The Dufour 36 is a 6400 kg boat, I don't like heavy boats.

The Infinity looks more a day sailer than a IRC boat. Is IRC legal? I founded that the DSS is IRC legal, but the boat?

yes it's legal, ISO cat B ( but could be A ) will have its rating for ORC and IRC shortly. This boat is set up as a day boat for owner in Monaco so he doesn't need any interior other than a wc and somewhere to leave the sails. However it is very quick in all conditions and it really is a fun ride:)

[walterbshaffer]

Price range?

The research winning IRC boats in areas with similar conditions.

Or (and this is a big step) you could just buy the boat you like and that suits you best and enjoy sailing. Some say that the winning follows naturally thereafter. Even if you lose, you win.

[DiasDePlaya]

I don't want to spend more than $450.000 ready to sail. But each $ less is a big good news.

[JL92S]

after the commodore's cup in the uk i'd say an Archambault 35 is a safe bet, in sub 10kts it was very competitive. CNBC (eaujet) went on to win the cup for GBR red

[ecosse4me]

Do not know the cost but:

http://www.sydneyyac...S37-poster.html

http://www.corby-yac...ebsite/Buy.html Roxy would be good https://www.icloud.c...E9-11372C7900DC

Some of the New Bendy Toys appear to be very competitive as well.

[DiasDePlaya]

The Sydney GTS37 is a reality now? Or only a project yet?

[Christian]

The Dufour 36 is a 6400 kg boat, I don't like heavy boats.

The Infinity looks more a day sailer than a IRC boat. Is IRC legal? I founded that the DSS is IRC legal, but the boat?

yes it's legal, ISO cat B ( but could be A ) will have its rating for ORC and IRC shortly. This boat is set up as a day boat for owner in Monaco so he doesn't need any interior other than a wc and somewhere to leave the sails. However it is very quick in all conditions and it really is a fun ride:)

Will be interesting to see that number - I assume it is not going to be a kind one.........................

[DiasDePlaya]

What do you think about J/122 or J/109?

[jolly]

What do you think about J/122 or J/109?

both do very well on IRC....... In light airs though, you might be better with a J111 which has a SA/D of 26/27 upwind and DLR119.......which means it's light and poweful, and accelerates quickly. It's a foot longer than J109, 2 foot more WL, a tonne lighter, and 20 sqm more kite area.......get the picture?


if you can find a Corby 36, they go great on IRC.....Roxy 6, Rockall 3, Inga.


X35 and A35 also very good in light, but maybe X boat pretty twitchy for a long passage.


DSS is rated by IRC (a Wellbourn 25 called Brace has an IRC), but does get penalised at the moment.

[Left Hook]

What do you think about J/122 or J/109?

both do very well on IRC....... In light airs though, you might be better with a J111 which has a SA/D of 26/27 upwind and DLR119.......which means it's light and poweful, and accelerates quickly. It's a foot longer than J109, 2 foot more WL, a tonne lighter, and 20 sqm more kite area.......get the picture?


if you can find a Corby 36, they go great on IRC.....Roxy 6, Rockall 3, Inga.


X35 and A35 also very good in light, but maybe X boat pretty twitchy for a long passage.


DSS is rated by IRC (a Wellbourn 25 called Brace has an IRC), but does get penalised at the moment.

No.

Go with the J/109 and a mid-size genoa (I forget what percentage is IRC friendly) and big kite. You'll crush under IRC.

[DiasDePlaya]

I have the idea that the J/111 have too high rating under IRC, and I found that the J/122 won many IRC races. The same for the J/109

[punter]

Please help me choose a boat about 37 feet to compete in IRC. 37' because the biggest fleet here is 35'-36', and sailing in front you have some strategic advantage.

Three friends and I have a long history of races won from the time of the IOR, we can do very well in a boat race.
But we do not want to fill the boat with crew to sit on the gunwale.
The most important races are run here in Chile with very light winds under 10 knots, and sometimes below 5 knots. Other important races are long downwind of 24 hours or more, so I have a theory that a small crew in a boat very light with simplified maneuver can achieve good results in these races sacrificing competitiveness in high-wind W/L sailing.

For this, what boat would you choose?

Isn't there a growing Soto 40 fleet in Chile? I believe they are having their first world champs in Chile in Jan 2013. If you have history of winning races why not do it in one-design?

[jolly]

I have the idea that the J/111 have too high rating under IRC, and I found that the J/122 won many IRC races. The same for the J/109

J122 will rate about the same as a J111 which is in the 1.088 to 1.005 range.

J109 and J122 both do great on IRC (no-one is disputing that) but the 111 is probably a better light airs boat than either of them. Also, if you get a 24 hour race, and its mainly down wind in some 18kts plus breeze, you'll quickly leave a 122 behind in a 111, as one boat will be doing early to mid teens boat speed, and other will be doing about 10 and not much more!

Nice to win alot, but its even better to have fun, yet still win sometimes:D

[jolly]

I have the idea that the J/111 have too high rating under IRC, and I found that the J/122 won many IRC races. The same for the J/109

J122 will rate about the same as a J111 which is in the 1.088 to 1.005 range.

J109 and J122 both do great on IRC (no-one is disputing that) but the 111 is probably a better light airs boat than either of them. Also, if you get a 24 hour race, and its mainly down wind in some 18kts plus breeze, you'll quickly leave a 122 behind in a 111, as one boat will be doing early to mid teens boat speed, and other will be doing about 10 and not much more!

Nice to win alot, but its even better to have fun, yet still win sometimes:D

Curent entry list to Cowes Week below....J122 will be in same IRC div as J111.

Linky
http://www.aamcowesw...classrequest=90


Enough on J's.....other options:
Ker 11.3, Corby 37, Elan 410, JPK 1010

[DiasDePlaya]

Please help me choose a boat about 37 feet to compete in IRC. 37' because the biggest fleet here is 35'-36', and sailing in front you have some strategic advantage.

Three friends and I have a long history of races won from the time of the IOR, we can do very well in a boat race.
But we do not want to fill the boat with crew to sit on the gunwale.
The most important races are run here in Chile with very light winds under 10 knots, and sometimes below 5 knots. Other important races are long downwind of 24 hours or more, so I have a theory that a small crew in a boat very light with simplified maneuver can achieve good results in these races sacrificing competitiveness in high-wind W/L sailing.

For this, what boat would you choose?

Isn't there a growing Soto 40 fleet in Chile? I believe they are having their first world champs in Chile in Jan 2013. If you have history of winning races why not do it in one-design?

Yes, here we have the biggest Soto 40 fleet in the world, but I don't like one designs because when you sail too close like them to turn the buoys are at least complicated. I raced Melges 24, very fun, but are small boats, you can sail very close without danger, but with a 7 ton boat a crash is not a joke and some boat are raced in a very aggressive way that I don't like.
In another hand the Soto 40 fleet is full of professionals and I'm a good skipper, but not a professional. Most of the professional crew are Argentinians, with Olympics medals or World Champions, is a money race, how pays the better crew win, and I'm not rich to this level, some owners hardly know steer nor trim a sail, but they have big budgets. Finally a Soto 40 is out my budget. I could race in the J/105 class, but no in the Soto 40 class. Here the J/105 is a owner-driver class.

[DiasDePlaya]

I have the idea that the J/111 have too high rating under IRC, and I found that the J/122 won many IRC races. The same for the J/109

J122 will rate about the same as a J111 which is in the 1.088 to 1.005 range.

J109 and J122 both do great on IRC (no-one is disputing that) but the 111 is probably a better light airs boat than either of them. Also, if you get a 24 hour race, and its mainly down wind in some 18kts plus breeze, you'll quickly leave a 122 behind in a 111, as one boat will be doing early to mid teens boat speed, and other will be doing about 10 and not much more!

Nice to win alot, but its even better to have fun, yet still win sometimes:D

Curent entry list to Cowes Week below....J122 will be in same IRC div as J111.

Linky
http://www.aamcowesw...classrequest=90


Enough on J's.....other options:
Ker 11.3, Corby 37, Elan 410, JPK 1010

In http://jboatnews.blogspot.com I read that usually J/122 beats J/111. Both have the same rating and the big one is faster.

[AVID]

Have a look at Sydney 38's good all round boat. Surprisingly quick and up to 12 knots seams to be their sweet spot (slightly modify the down wind sail plan, ie MH spins or MH ASails from sprit and you would have a short crewed weapon). They come in at 5500kg 's so by no means a 4ksb in any direction on the racecourse but still reasonably light for a 38 footer and with IRC about 1.103 (with masthead gear) they do ok on all race tracks. They have a bit of accommodation and can do seriouse offshore aswell.

The only thing is you would need to in port one from Australia. They do represent great value for money.

[MSA]

I have the idea that the J/111 have too high rating under IRC, and I found that the J/122 won many IRC races. The same for the J/109

J122 will rate about the same as a J111 which is in the 1.088 to 1.005 range.

J109 and J122 both do great on IRC (no-one is disputing that) but the 111 is probably a better light airs boat than either of them. Also, if you get a 24 hour race, and its mainly down wind in some 18kts plus breeze, you'll quickly leave a 122 behind in a 111, as one boat will be doing early to mid teens boat speed, and other will be doing about 10 and not much more!

Nice to win alot, but its even better to have fun, yet still win sometimes:D

Curent entry list to Cowes Week below....J122 will be in same IRC div as J111.

Linky
http://www.aamcowesw...classrequest=90


Enough on J's.....other options:
Ker 11.3, Corby 37, Elan 410, JPK 1010

Please Delete the Elan 410 from your list..

[Ocean View]

As mentioned above - the J111 seems to have the goods

But the MC38 in another one I'd be trialling.

http://www.mcconaghy...c38/pricing.asp

You could follow this one for light air performance history

http://hk.northsails...px?news_id=2859

[BAR KARATE]

Buy a Far40 for <$150K it should come with a pretty good inventory, get someone to design and build a new hull transfer rig, sails and hardware to new hull and whollah an IRC upwind & downwind flyer for less than $320K. A mate is doing the same here in OZ but hull now 42-43ft (has a cruising layout below but full racer on deck) with a limited canting keel & Asso, should be a F#@King weapon can't wait ......

[MSA]

You mean like the Mat 12 that is for sale in the Uk at the moment for a lot less than $250k USD?

[DickDastardly]

IRC is now treating stock Farr 40s pretty well. May well be a good IRC option, and cheap... Cookson 12 / Farr 39ML also well treated under IRC at present.

Few Sydney 38s in North America. and plenty on the market in Australia. Cookson 12 probably a better but under IRC. 500kg lighter, longer and faster in anything but heavy upwind conditions.

[Dino]

The Ker 37 Jump Juice would be an ideal boat for you. It's in Ireland but I'm sure it could be shipped and I think it could be bought a bit cheaper than advertised.
It's a good light air boat too.
http://www.theyachtm...ID=58775&inum=7

[BAR KARATE]

You mean like the Mat 12 that is for sale in the Uk at the moment for a lot less than $250k USD?

No I mean something that looks like a racer (not a bene) from the outside. I must confess that the cruising layout is a little less spartan than that example, maybe a step up from the Syd38 for example ....

[DIMITRIS]

I would look for an Elan 350 which has an IRC rate of 1.040 to 1.101 TCC with 2.35m iron & lead keel. It is ideal for the wind strength you are saying and it can be shorthanded sailed.

[Ballast Technician]

The General!!

As mentioned above - the J111 seems to have the goods

But the MC38 in another one I'd be trialling.

http://www.mcconaghy...c38/pricing.asp

You could follow this one for light air performance history

http://hk.northsails...px?news_id=2859

I would look for an Elan 350 which has an IRC rate of 1.040 to 1.101 TCC with 2.35m iron & lead keel. It is ideal for the wind strength you are saying and it can be shorthanded sailed.

Did all of you guys not see the mention of IRC!? Was in both the the OP and the thread title...

[Left Hook]

The General!!

As mentioned above - the J111 seems to have the goods

But the MC38 in another one I'd be trialling.

http://www.mcconaghy...c38/pricing.asp

You could follow this one for light air performance history

http://hk.northsails...px?news_id=2859

I would look for an Elan 350 which has an IRC rate of 1.040 to 1.101 TCC with 2.35m iron & lead keel. It is ideal for the wind strength you are saying and it can be shorthanded sailed.

Did all of you guys not see the mention of IRC!? Was in both the the OP and the thread title...

The idiots have taken over BT, time to shoot a few holes in this thread and let it sink.

[MSA]

You mean like the Mat 12 that is for sale in the Uk at the moment for a lot less than $250k USD?

No I mean something that looks like a racer (not a bene) from the outside. I must confess that the cruising layout is a little less spartan than that example, maybe a step up from the Syd38 for example ....

Yeah should have read the 2nd part of your comment... But if someone was to buy a Farr 40 over a Mills designed 40 for IRC I would be worried..

Is the Deck just being transplanted and Moded? Farr 40 OD sails are wrong for the boat under IRC, both in construction and size, so sails are a bit of a waste in the equation if you ask me. But you didnt...

Sounds like a fun play boat..

The Op asked for Fast, light. 37 and IRC.. unless he is trawling he will be pushed finding an good W/L boat. He will defiantly find one one that goes down wind to rating, but remember even shit blows down wind, only the IRC type form boats will do all angles closer to its rating.

[misconseption2348]

J35, cheap, available, kills in IRC. LO is a super light air venue and they do very well.

[sailforbeer]

I don't want to spend more than $450.000 ready to sail. But each $ less is a big good news.

J35, cheap, available, kills in IRC. LO is a super light air venue and they do very well.

The OP has $450,000 to spend. You think he's going to be happy in a clapped out J35?

[misconseption2348]

I don't want to spend more than $450.000 ready to sail. But each $ less is a big good news.

J35, cheap, available, kills in IRC. LO is a super light air venue and they do very well.

The OP has $450,000 to spend. You think he's going to be happy in a clapped out J35?

It's easy to drop a bunch of cash, getting the bottom done, foils re-faired, and some new sails. You think he's going to be happy losing to a J35?

[sailforbeer]

You think he's going to be happy losing to a J35?

Of course not. Don't be ridiculous. If he loses to a J35, he will:

a.) blame the J35's age allowance and rating

b.) blame the lucky shift that the J35 got on the last leg

c.) blame his sailmaker

d.) blame IRC in general

e.) all of the above

[DIMITRIS]

The General!!

As mentioned above - the J111 seems to have the goods

But the MC38 in another one I'd be trialling.

http://www.mcconaghy...c38/pricing.asp

You could follow this one for light air performance history


Elan 350 is an IRC designed boat. Rob Humphreys' designs for elan are IRC optimized hulls why is that so difficult to understand? Like the Elan 340 I used to race under IRC in Athens Greece and at the light to medium wind conditions the boat was performing very well.


http://hk.northsails...px?news_id=2859

I would look for an Elan 350 which has an IRC rate of 1.040 to 1.101 TCC with 2.35m iron & lead keel. It is ideal for the wind strength you are saying and it can be shorthanded sailed.

Did all of you guys not see the mention of IRC!? Was in both the the OP and the thread title...

The idiots have taken over BT, time to shoot a few holes in this thread and let it sink.

Elan 350 is an IRC designed boat. Rob Humphreys' hull designs are IRC optimized why is that so difficult to understand? I was sailing an Elan 340 in IRC in Athens and it was performing really well in light to medium wind range.

[DiasDePlaya]

Until now I feel that the J/122 is my favorite, reading and reading.

[thebin2k]

Dubois 37 good up wind and takes off down wind espcialy in a blow it planes like a dinghy, your racing conditions sound perfect for that boat.

[crashdog]

wot somwun sed above.

cookson 12m. or farr 39ml. Both good builders (anything by Mark Lindsay is solid as a rock). Both platforms that can be modified substantially for IRC. Put a 145% main, a battened 115% jib and about a 125% pole and you will utterly rock. For about $35K.

Personally, in that era, I prefer Jim Taylor's designs over Farr, but usually there is only one, and with Farr, always two (or more) there are.

[Loco.]

Since this has turned a bit silly just buy a Sydney 40 and put a new keel on like I did.

Probably just as relevant as some other suggestions.

[Ballast Technician]

[SNIP]

Elan 350 is an IRC designed boat. Rob Humphreys' hull designs are IRC optimized why is that so difficult to understand? I was sailing an Elan 340 in IRC in Athens and it was performing really well in light to medium wind range.

Slightly belated response, but still worth pointing out: The Elan 350 might have been designed as IRC boat, but she does not perform that way. That is, the boat does not sail to its rating to be competitive under IRC - and the OP wants to compete. Why is that so difficult to understand?

[rantifarian]

I still think the corby 36 is a good call. We watched Jessandra II sail past nearly all of the 40'ers in the light airs of the last Brisbane to Keppel, although I have a feeling there has been some IRC optimisation done to the boat from stock.

[sailing4fun]

Until now I feel that the J/122 is my favorite, reading and reading.

Wow can't believe no one has mentioned the Express 37. Great IRC and PHRF boat. 1.030 or 72.
Way better than a bendy or J boat. PM me and I'll tell you more!

[wcnann]

The Dufour 36 is a 6400 kg boat, I don't like heavy boats.

The Infinity looks more a day sailer than a IRC boat. Is IRC legal? I founded that the DSS is IRC legal, but the boat?

The Dufour 36p raced against a fleet of J/109's and beat most of the fleet boat for boat during the Buzzards Bay Regatta despite a 6 sec/mi advantage. She's a 6.5-7 kt boat upwind and easily 12kts surfing down waves. Yes, she's 3000lb heavier than a J, but with 20% more sail area.

[wcnann]

I don't want to spend more than $450.000 ready to sail. But each $ less is a big good news.

The new Dufour 36p is a $300k boat with sails and electronics. Check out the Dufour at www.northstaryachtsales.com. Where are you located? We have one here in Newport that you can see. She'll be on display at the Newport and Annapolis Boat Shows.

[wcnann]

What do you think about J/122 or J/109?

Here is the link to the Dufour's first US regatta. She was only beat by symmetric boats during a breezy weekend.
http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/applet_regatta_results.php?regatta_id=4984&show_crew=1

I put a comparison spreadsheet together on the Dufour and J/109 (among others)including righting moment, sail area, etc. I'd be happy to pass it along. PM me with your email and I'll send it out.

[black swan]

Slightly off topic, but....

say i was interested in a club racer that I could cruise with the minister for war and finance; what would comments be on the Elan 350 and Dufour 36P? Polars look identical, but the Elan maybe a little more spaceous below.

Any alternative suggestions?

[MSA]

First 35.... Rating of 1.018, can match/beat boats like the Dufour boat for boat and nail them on corrected.

Hot water, shower, fridge, oven, large v-berth, deck shower, mirrors for her to do her make up... Basically a floating apartment..

PM me if you want some details.

[Haguesail]

Another vote for the Corby 36 -- you might note this is a recurring recommendation. Wonderful boat, John Corby can also help with any tweaks or modifications you might want for your venue. Two J35s -- you can match race, will have a lot of money left over, and will be the older boat that doesn't turn heads at the dock but embarrasses a lot of owners who have dropped several hundred thousand more on their boat. We had good results with the First 35 shorthanded in lighter conditions, less so in a blow, but with with 4 crew you might also consider the First 40. MAT1010 is a bit smaller but has a terrific light air reputation, would be comfortable enough for 4.

[Swanno (Ohf Shore)]

First 35.... Rating of 1.018, can match/beat boats like the Dufour boat for boat and nail them on corrected.

Hot water, shower, fridge, oven, large v-berth, deck shower, mirrors for her to do her make up... Basically a floating apartment..

PM me if you want some details.

Sounds great, do you know of any for sale?

[Haguesail]

I heard there is a winning and well set up example that just went on the market in Holland...;-)

[MSA]

Well Offshore it just so happens I have one for sale.. How did you know...

The new Farr designed keel for the First 35 is supposed to dramatically increase heavy air performance and give a 3-5 point rating drop. It also is supposed to help its down wind speed by not dragging a giant bulb around. Same RM, less wetted area but large fin to gain some traction.

I just did a regatta over the weekend on a MAT 1010. Great boat, punched above its weight in flat water but in waves and eased sheets sailing it's still a small boat. Rating was 1.035, ideally needs to be 1.030 to be a giant killer. The Dufour 36p was in the same regatta, we beat them overall but they were devastating quick 2 sail reaching with a rating of 1.034.

Corby 36 is great but very very small down below for a 36 footer. Excellent rating boat. Quite expensive and a rare commodity.
&Eacute;lan 350 is a roomy boat but terrible on IRC. Too much wetted area, lots of drag on the twin rudders. But goes like a freight train when it can make use of its large form stability.

[wcnann]

If you're considering the J's, take another look at the Dufour 36. She is 3300 lbs heavier but has more sail area. The Dufour 36 beat the J/109's in varying conditions boat for boat and they owe her time. Preliminary IRC is 1.031. http://www.northstar.../dufour-36P.php

[forss]

I don't know how fast Dufour 36P is, but one thing I know that she is one of the sexiest production boats.
When you suck at racing then go sailing with chicks.

[MSA]

http://www.topyacht....rc/d3/SGrp8.htm

Results order
Farr 43 IOR
Summit 35
Sydney 36
MAT 1010
Sydney 36
A31
Sydney 36
Dufour 36p
Masram 920

I know only one regatta but it was enough of an indication.