89 replies to this topic

[couchsurfer]

...is it time??...has BigBen finally met his match??
...it's layday now,,,and ben's down 10 points with just 4 races to go,,likely he's been in this position at other major events,,,but it'll be interesting to see that if he can muster for the 2nd half with the combination of expectations put on as the nation's torchbearer,,and the fleet's growing intolerance of some of his attitudes
..with just 4 races to go,,I'm thinking the Dane just might hold on!
...definitely a race to watch

...great details in this account!

http://finnclass.org...d=43&Itemid=266
No stopping Great Dane Jonas Høgh-Christensen on third day at Olymics

Olympics

Jonas Høgh-Christensen (DEN) has again extended on the Finn fleet with a first and second on day three at the London 2012 Olympic Sailing Competition. Ben Ainslie (GBR) moves up to second after a better day, but has still be beat the Great Dane after six races. Jonathan Lobert (FRA) drops one place to third. The second race of the day was won by Deniss Karpak (EST).

Tuesday was crunch day for the Finns. Going into the half way stage of the regatta, Ben Ainslie (GBR) needed to make some points back before the lay day on Wednesday, while regatta leader Jonas Høgh-Christensen (DEN) was looking to consolidate his points lead and not do anything silly.

Race five was dominated by the Høgh-Christensen from start to finish. Starting in the pack, but away from the pin-end boat he hit yesterday he soon pulled ahead of the fleet and with Postma suffering gear failure on the far left, the Dane steered a confident course up the favoured left side of the course to round the top mark with a small lead over Rafa Trujillo (ESP), Ben Ainslie (GBR) and Zach Railey (USA), while several boats overstood in the strong tide. Ainslie had started in the middle and was soon in difficulty having to tack away to clear his air.

After a screaming reach towards the wing mark as the wind piped up, there was a fascinating dual between the leading bunch on the run, though Høgh-Christensen was starting to pull away from the fleet. Railey, the 2008 Silver medalist has not had a great regatta so far so was also looking for improvements today. He had moved up to second at the gate, sailing past the normally faster Ainslie. Ainslie rounded behind and had to tack away to find a lane further to the right. Høgh-Christensen seemed confident on the left and held his course before coming back with a nice lead into the second top mark.

The wind faded on the final offwind legs but Høgh-Christensen extended his lead, while Railey maintained second from Trujillo. Nirkko and Ainslie passed Trujillo and Ainslie looked to be closing on Nirkko but ran out of track. At the finish it was Høgh-Christensen, Railey, Nirkko and Ainslie, with Ivan Kljakovic Gaspic (CRO) staging an amazing recovery from 19th at the first mark to cross fifth.

Ainslie was now firmly on the backfoot and needed something special in race six. He started well, winning the pin after Postma returned and controlled the lane to the favoured left side of the course and looked to be coming into the top mark well placed. Meanwhile Høgh-Christensen was forced to tack off to find clear air and trailed on the right. However many boats overstood the top mark and first round was Trujillo from Ioannis Mitakis (GRE), Nirkko and Høgh-Christensen. Ainslie rounded in seventh.

Trujillo led down the run with Deniss Karpak (EST) moving up to second from Nirkko and Ainslie, but by the gate Karpak had made big gains to round in first from Nirkko, Ainslie and Høgh-Christensen. The Dane was forced to tack away again after he had been passed by Ainslie for the first time this week. However it was all change on the final upwind with Høgh-Christensen splitting from the fleet and making places all the way up to second to round behind Karpak. Trujillo rounded third from Vasilij Zbogar (SLO) while Ainslie slipped to fifth.

Karpak extended down the run to lead into the finish and win by nearly a minute. Høgh-Christensen rounded in second but Ainslie had caught up for a thrilling spray filled chase to the line, but the Dane held on for second with Ainslie third, Trujillo fourth and Zbogar fifth.

Despite dropping one place to third, Lobert said, “I am pretty happy so far. Third overall after three days means I am still in the game. We still have four races to go and so I will take it day by day, race by race like I have done since the beginning. And I always try my hardest to catch up the most boats I can when I am behind. Today I was 15th and 17th at the first mark which is not so good.” Lobert recovered to place 6th and 7th today.

“The racing is very tight. The wind today was a bit strange, very up and down and sometimes there was some oil on the water. On the first upwinds I didn't know exactly what to do. I was just looking around and missed most of the shifts. Then slowly, slowly I came back during the race and so I am pretty happy with that.”

“I want to improve my first upwind. If I can be top six round the first mark I have good chance to win the race, like I almost did yesterday. I maybe have to take more risks on the start line. In the first race today the Greek was just above me and he was OCS. I thought we were pretty high but I held back. But I also need to improve my tactics. I need to have a better plan for the first upwind, as most of the time I don't have a plan and not sure what to do. I just try for the start and then react to where I am, which is not so good.”

Postma described his unfortunate gear failure. “The wind was left and you had to be left and win the pin end. I was going a bit low, going for speed and I wanted to tighten the outhaul a bit more so I pulled it with some force and broke it. I took down the sail, fixed it but then the fleet was gone.”

“I was calm at the time. These things happen. Then I felt a bit disappointed, then a bit angry. Now I just feel focussed. We have a rest day to gain all the energy back and am looking forward to getting on with the racing.”

The 2008 Silver medalist Railey had his best day so far with a 2, 8 to rise to 12th overall. He said, “Today was better. I did nothing different but just had the shifts go the way I thought. It been a hard to get the wind correct but I am still fighting hard. I just need to have good races. I am in quite a hole from the first few races but I will not quit. Looking forward to a day off watch some other races on TV and recover my legs.”

Høgh-Christensen said, "In both races I wanted to go left. So starting close to the pin was the plan but with a bit less risk. Both starts were good, but I thought I was over in the second race and went back. The reason being that I was on line with PJ and he went back. Apparently non of us were over. I came back fast and managed to hit some good shifts to get back to fourth. Then I gained a couple more and I am super content with that. Another good day."

"You have got to take your breaks when you can. I am an old man in the fleet and I definitely need a rest, a big steak and ready up for Thursday.”

Ainslie commented on his performance, “It's tough. Sometimes these things work out, but unfortunately for me, this week it hasn't. I was really frustrated yesterday but it has been better today.”

“He [Høgh-Christensen] is sailing really well. He is a good sailor and a big guy. He is having the regatta of his life. He likes upwind and for whatever reason he is nailing it every time. If I keep pushing hard he might slip up. It's a difficult place to sail here, but he keeps nailing it. He is sailing well and at some point the tables have to turn. He's on fire.”

The Finns now have a rest day - and a day to think about how they will approach the final four opening series races on Thursday and Friday. While one man will be trying to relax and keep his head clear, another will be evaluating what has gone so wrong. Ainslie may be in the silver medal position but he has openly admitted anything but gold would be a disaster. And after six races he sits ten points behind the Dane with a little bomb on his scorecard waiting to be ignited if he has another bad day.

Høgh-Christensen is producing the type of performance that everyone expected Ainslie to produce. Some great race wins, all round speed dominance and some incredible comebacks.

What does Ainslie now have to do to turn this around? And does he know the answer himself? How do you respond to someone sailing the way Høgh-Christensen has done? This is an unsual situation for Ainslie as normally it is the rest of the fleet working out how to respond to Ainslie's dominance. It will be fascinating to watch it play out.

After the rest day for the Finns on Wednesday, races seven and eight are scheduled for 12.00 Thursday, on Weymouth Bay South course.



Photos by Francois Richard

[eliboat]

The question is not what Ainsle can do to turn it around, but what Hogh-Christianson can do to fuck up a near perfect series so far. I guess anything can happen, but the Dane has been incredibly consistent and brutally fast...also quite fun to watch. The Finn fleet in general has been really entertaining with the tight racing.

[couchsurfer]

The question is not what Ainsle can do to turn it around, but what Hogh-Christianson can do to fuck up a near perfect series so far. I guess anything can happen, but the Dane has been incredibly consistent and brutally fast...also quite fun to watch. The Finn fleet in general has been really entertaining with the tight racing.

...yeh,,a LOT can happen on the 'day-off'

[USA190520]

He's right where he wants to be, like a lion ready to pounce, britian's knight in neoprene lurking on the course like a shark stalking his prey... He is..... Ben ainsle... Right, here we go...

[couchsurfer]

....be sure to plug-in to this before watching tomorrow's races,
,,hero-to-zero or otherwise ,it'll surely enhance the experience

http://gobarbra.com/...040f9c9ca21cc16

[dogwatch]

...it's layday now,,,and ben's down 10 points with just 4 races to go,,likely he's been in this position at other major events,,,

Not quite correct. There are 5 races to go, including the double-points non-discardable medal race. So actually, in terms of points the series is precisely mid-way.

[couchsurfer]

...it's layday now,,,and ben's down 10 points with just 4 races to go,,likely he's been in this position at other major events,,,

Not quite correct. There are 5 races to go, including the double-points non-discardable match race. So actually, in terms of points the series is precisely mid-way.

ahhh,soooo,,,,mestands corrected.
...all I know is it'll be one heck of a race

...I hope the dane's got a good psych coach,,you know 'paul' will be cheering,
,,,and probably a certain photographer
,,,and anyone who believes boarding should be properly penalized
,,,and probably a few guys in the fleet

...I can hear the psych coach now....''breath deeep,,,picture yourself sailing as you have been,,,passing boats,,strong,,confident!,,,,,,,now picture a small ant crawling across your deck...swat that ant,,,see it squish into your deck,,,then see it's face,,
,,,,oh noooo,,you say it's Ben,,oh noooo,I squished poooor Ben''

http://gobarbra.com/...040f9c9ca21cc16

[jwlbrace]

I think a lot will depend on the wind strength- JHC has sailed a near perfect regatta in near perfect conditions for him, fully powered up upwind and enough downwind pace to not let the 12kg positive weight cost him. He will be without doubt an extremely tough competitor to beat at this stage, even with a change in weather, but if we're laying down bets on who has the talent to possibly do it, then I'd be surprised to see too many backing anyone else there other than Ben Ainslie.

As a Brit would I like to see Ainslie win another gold, sure of course I would; but as a sailor I can't help but admire and respect JHC's performance on the water and demeanour off it in interview. He's a brilliant sailor, athlete and all round sportsman... best of luck to both of them, the better sailor on the day will win.

[couchsurfer]

oops,,the dane capsized on the run race 7 ,,,then came back from 15 to 8th
.......seems to be a bit more mortal now(?),,race 8 had them 3rd/4th,seems like Ainslie made it past Jonas late in the race,,3 points separation now

the winds going in to race 7 were 17-18 knots,,,what were they in the earlier races?

[the loose cannon]

Coverage in the states is a bust - Nothing without expat - but it looks like ben is back to within 3. It is hotting up. It is fun to watch because it is easy to root for either of them. They both have good reasons to want it....

[shanghaisailor]

Well Couchsurfer it looks like Ben has re-found his karma, his kool, his kwik lanes, his killer instinct

he is no fool and seems to need a screw up to get himself going.

Not quite bottom of the ninth but with 2 races to go to the medal race and just 3 points in it and the last two races to Ben, a capsize to Jonas in the 7th perhaps the pressure is beginning to tell.

Still 3 races to go and I am not brave enough to call it but with 6 Gold Cups and 2 Olympic Golds in the class and having seen his performances in Qingdao and Falmouth in the heavy stuff I am not running down to the bookies to put anything on against Mr Ainslie.

gotta say GO BEN GO!!

See ya on the water

Shanghai Sailor

[l4k]

Interesting story brewing here - apparently DEN and NED Finn sailors called BA for hitting a mark when he didn't. Ben did a turn anyway, but is pretty angry...

[couchsurfer]

Well Couchsurfer it looks like Ben has re-found his karma, his kool, his kwik lanes, his killer instinct

he is no fool and seems to need a screw up to get himself going.

Not quite bottom of the ninth but with 2 races to go to the medal race and just 3 points in it and the last two races to Ben, a capsize to Jonas in the 7th perhaps the pressure is beginning to tell.

Still 3 races to go and I am not brave enough to call it but with 6 Gold Cups and 2 Olympic Golds in the class and having seen his performances in Qingdao and Falmouth in the heavy stuff I am not running down to the bookies to put anything on against Mr Ainslie.

gotta say GO BEN GO!!

See ya on the water

Shanghai Sailor

...sometimes the lay-day turns out to be a real turnaround
...nothing worse than sitting on shore with that kind of pressure

[Sail_FAU]

How is that a story? Two sailors thought they saw another sailor hit a mark, so they protested. Ben must not have been certain, so he spun to exonerate himself just in case. Pretty normal stuff...

[Roy_Race]

They showed an interview with Ben after the race. He is absolutely seething:

"Both him and the Danish guy basically teamed up on me."
"They made a big mistake because they made me angry, and they didn't want to make me angry."
"It's bad, it's really bad, so I'm not happy with that. It's happened a lot to me in the Olympics before."
"Those guys had better watch out."

[ojfd]

They showed an interview with Ben after the race. He is absolutely seething:

"Both him and the Danish guy basically teamed up on me."
.....

Oh, oh, oh! You don't accuse your fellow competitors in breaking Rule 2 (Fair sailing) if you can't prove it, especially in public interview!!!

It is either
a] stupid move
b] UK tabloid style PR stunt
c] pure whining

What were ISAF people thinking by publishing basically the same words on official ISAF Olympics page?

Innocent until proved guilty, remember?

[shanghaisailor]

They showed an interview with Ben after the race. He is absolutely seething:

"Both him and the Danish guy basically teamed up on me."
.....

Oh, oh, oh! You don't accuse your fellow competitors in breaking Rule 2 (Fair sailing) if you can't prove it, especially in public interview!!!

It is either
a] stupid move
b] UK tabloid style PR stunt
c] pure whining

What were ISAF people thinking by publishing basically the same words on official ISAF Olympics page?

Innocent until proved guilty, remember?

I am sure there would be plenty video of the rounding in any case but at this level gamesmanship comes into it a lot, could have been a case of one shouting and another joining in - i have been in enough races and enough "rooms" (on both sides of the table) to know what goes on.

I also know enough about Ben that if he was still angry enough to still say anything by the time he got ashore he will have been pretty sure he was nowhere near the mark.

This thread is called 'karma attack'? Well perhaps someone (x 2) just shot themselves in the foot

ISAF control the output so maybe they alread know somehtng of the incident

See ya on the water

Shanghai Sailor

PS just read a post on another site from a coach watching live on TV and he reckons Ben was no-where was near. another was suggesting that any Rule 2 protest would go against DEN and NDL for gamesmanship (you know - the opposite of sportsmanship)and that ben should instigate that protest. Not a way to win a Gold though as would likely result in a DNE for both the other sailors and Ben is thankfully above that

[Evo]

They showed an interview with Ben after the race. He is absolutely seething:

"Both him and the Danish guy basically teamed up on me."
.....

Oh, oh, oh! You don't accuse your fellow competitors in breaking Rule 2 (Fair sailing) if you can't prove it, especially in public interview!!!

It is either
a] stupid move
b] UK tabloid style PR stunt
c] pure whining

What were ISAF people thinking by publishing basically the same words on official ISAF Olympics page?

Innocent until proved guilty, remember?

I am sure there would be plenty video of the rounding in any case but at this level gamesmanship comes into it a lot, could have been a case of one shouting and another joining in - i have been in enough races and enough "rooms" (on both sides of the table) to know what goes on.

I also know enough about Ben that if he was still angry enough to still say anything by the time he got ashore he will have been pretty sure he was nowhere near the mark.

This thread is called 'karma attack'? Well perhaps someone (x 2) just shot themselves in the foot

ISAF control the output so maybe they alread know somehtng of the incident

See ya on the water

Shanghai Sailor

PS just read a post on another site from a coach watching live on TV and he reckons Ben was no-where was near. another was suggesting that any Rule 2 protest would go against DEN and NDL for gamesmanship (you know - the opposite of sportsmanship)and that ben should instigate that protest. Not a way to win a Gold though as would likely result in a DNE for both the other sailors and Ben is thankfully above that

ya might want to watch the incident yerself there SS....nowhere near??? ahem. maybe not. he rounded tight.

interesting that the Dane has allegedly said something ....always pretty hard to tell from in front what is happening behind. The Dutchman was very close astern of the BenAinslie country.....and if he's going to do turns....that close?? hmmm

[ojfd]

ISAF control the output...

Apparently, not very well. Someone in our 'mother' organization's press department, which is UK based, by the way, is not being impartial.

[SimonN]

The only 2 people who are sure that Ben touched are the Dane and the Dutchman, who I believe are training partners. Ben is certain he didn't touch, while those who have watched it aren't sure or think he didn't. Even if there was no intent to shaft Ben, this would not be the first time he has been subjected to what he sees as people deliberately shafting him and he is pretty sensitive about it. Add to that some of the interviews that the Dane has been giving, about how Ben doesn't deserve to be linked with Elvstrom and that he will do all he can to prevent Ben from matching Elvstrom's record, and I think you have a pretty explosive situation Ben did his turns not because he felt he had touched the mark, but because he knew that if those 2 had gone into the room and say he did touch, the cahnces are he would have been dsq'ed. Olympic juries are notorious for not allowing video evidence (although Ben wouldn't have know if there was any or not) and wouldn't have favoured outside observers who were further away than the 2 accusers. The smart play was to do the turns, innocent or not. He converted that to a 3rd place, instead of a fair chance of a DSQ. He made the whole thing very public because that will ensure close scrutiny of what happens in the Finns and reduce the chance of him being shafted when it really counts. All told, I think yesterday Ben took full control and had a pretty amazing day.

[ojfd]

Oh, c'mon SimonN, you can do better than that.

Do we have a protest? NO!
Did you see the incident? Were you there, on the water? NO!
What are you talking about, then? Stop pretending to be a Ben's lawyer, for the fair play's sake.

....Olympic juries are notorious for not allowing video evidence...

Nice, now it 's juries that are to blame...

[shanghaisailor]

So tell me ojfd - are you Dutch or Danish? And were YOU there on the water?

The term "nowhere near" means totally differnet things to a world class sailor and the likes of you and me

Good post SimonN - haven't seen you on for a while. I think you are right that DEN and NDL, if not buddies are certainly in "in a (training) relationship"

I have seen Ben Ainslie sailing many times before, he uses the rules as any racing sailor should but I have never seen him not hold his hand up when he was wrong.The medal race in Qingdao (day one zephyr and day 2 blast)when he had Zach on toast and the final race in 2000 on Sydney pre-medal race days are two good cases in point when he coupled sailing ability to rules knowledge

Add that to some of the rhetoric that has been coming from the Dane about "ALL that he can do to stop Ainslie" and the evidence starts to stack up.

I have no end of respect for Elvstrom, indeed one of my earliest sailing books that i got something like 40 years ago was "Expert Dinghy Racing" by the great man - and I still have it - and Ben beating his medal count takes nothing away from Paul. They are both clearly the best of their era and no amount of debate over no amount of beer will ever settle the arguement.

Your comment, ojfd, about ISAF being based in the UK having any influence is so funny. Rather like saying Belgium controls the European Union and NATO becasue the headquarters are there.

Currently the ISAF Executive Committee has no (that is zero by the way) GBR members and the wider council only has 2, one of which is the ISAF Class Committee Rep and the other Chris Atkins, who I can personally tell you is there by ability and well earned reputation.

So what was your point anyway?

And besides if Ben said it and they didn't publish, is that not just censorship? They accuse us of that here!

3 races to go - how the hell am I going to get any work done here today waiting for 7pm

See ya on the Water

SS

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[couchsurfer]

...yeh,,getting to be a lot of speculation and rhetoric about this,,so I'll toss-in some of my own
...based on Ainslie's interview and a few other actions in the recent past,,,I'm smelling a healthy dose of ''DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM''???...creeping in to his attitude-call it 'entitlement' if you will

....the Dane's comments,if quoted somewhat correctly are a more concrete confirmation of a growing sentiment in the fleet--and all finnsters know it's important to keep a few friends in the fleet,,
...or at least some respect

[shanghaisailor]

Hey Couchsurfer

They do say that pride and jealousy are two of the deadly sins don't they

SS

[couchsurfer]

Hey Couchsurfer

They do say that pride and jealousy are two of the deadly sins don't they

SS

...sounds good to me,,,and I also still consider losing temper AND boarding boats AND roughing people up AND using threatening language as pretty low on the list as well

[ojfd]

So tell me ojfd - are you Dutch or Danish?

Irrelevant.

And were YOU there on the water?

No. But I am not making any claims that I know or might know something or taking any side.

All I say is that one competitor is making accusations that two other competitors have broken principles of fair play and these accusations are NOT BASED ON ANY FACTUAL EVIDENCE !!!
This is, in fact, a very unsportsmanship behaviour by the said competitor and, by the way, puts the sport into disrepute. We all know the relevant Rule number, don't we?

...........
Your comment, ojfd, about ISAF being based in the UK having any influence is so funny.
...........

http://www.sailing.org/olympics/london2012/media/contacts.php

Name: Daniel Smith
Position: ISAF Website and Media Co-ordinator
Email: newseditor@isaf.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0)2380 635111

Daniel Smith (GBR) has joined the Secretariat of the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) as Website and Media Co-ordinator. Daniel is responsible for developing and delivering ISAF's communications and internet strategy. Daniel will be delivering ISAF and sailing content on a daily basis and includes working on ISAF's major events such as the ISAF Sailing World Cup, ISAF Youth Sailing World Championship. the Perth 2011 ISAF Worlds and the Olympic Games.

Daniel has previously worked for Surrey County Cricket Club and Henley Royal Regatta in the communications department and at high profile events for Fast Track Agency. Daniel joined the Marketing, Events and Training Department at the ISAF Secretariat in Southampton on 4 January 2011.

No further comment.

[bruno]

If you have experienced having two of your friends in the Finn fleet make shit up in a protest hearing it kinda sucks. We were not all brothers, we were competitors but you want to respect the other guys. Unfortunatelybthere are always some whining lying pussies whom one cannot, life. I think that if two good sailors both claimed that I hit a mark in a close rounding, unless I had some animus towards them, or they towards me, I would tend to believe they had a clearer view and circle. I recall a medal race in Lasers I think when both top sailors were circling to prevnt a dsq, often needlessly, just because it is the Olympics, no quarter at this level. BA needs to feel like he is dominating his opponents' psychology, I think most the fuss derives from that. Otherwise, file a protest, no tears.

[bruno]

http://www.finnclass...1504_resize.jpg

[MR.CLEAN]

useless angle. I like my pic of ben on the front page better. Well, not on the front page yet, but when scot wakes up. Preview:

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[jwlbrace]

he did the turns, if I were him I'd leave it there. If I were asked questions later by the media, I would simply say that it's part and parcel of the game, and that it is possible to be so focused on the race that i might have touched even though I didn't think I had... therefore, play the percentage game and take the turns rather than risk the protest room.

[Evo]

he did the turn

a leg late from other accusations on this site...did he hit the mark rounding the weather mark or the leeward gate?

[jwlbrace]

in fairness he would say he hit neither.... but which mark did DEN and NED say he hit? Have either been interviewed on the subject?

[Evo]

in fairness he would say he hit neither.... but which mark did DEN and NED say he hit? Have either been interviewed on the subject?

moot point. no protest. only thing sure is the country of Benainslie did a turn after the leeward gate

[SimonN]

Oh, c'mon SimonN, you can do better than that.

Do we have a protest? NO!
Did you see the incident? Were you there, on the water? NO!
What are you talking about, then? Stop pretending to be a Ben's lawyer, for the fair play's sake.

....Olympic juries are notorious for not allowing video evidence...

Nice, now it 's juries that are to blame...

Yes, I have seen the incident and watched it a number of times. Even with the benefit of replay, I cannot say he touched, but I also cannot say from the angle that he didn't. However, you seem to have missed the point I was making, which might be because I didn't explain it enough. In 2008, a lying Frenchman got Ben DSQéd from the first race. Ben was sure he hadn't fouled but because of what the other party said, he was lobbed. 2 days later video came to light that proved the Frenchman's version was different from what happened. The jury refused to reopen the case because they said video evidence can be misleading! In the Finn (I think pre olympics) Ian Percy was declared OCS and went to the room with a video that showed he made a 3rd row start. The jury ruled that as the video couldn't be used because it wasn't taken from dead on the line. They said that because of that one fact, they didn't need to even consider the video.

Ben knows all of this and decided not to risk going to the room because it would be his word against 2 others and any other evidence he might be able to find, such as video or an outside observer, might not carry any weight. He learnt from 2008 and this time converted a potential DSQ into a 3rd place.It's not an admission of guilt, but a pretty smart and very sensible move. This really is basic stuff at this level. hen involved in an incident, the assesment you need to make isn't whether you were did something wrong but more about what would happen in the room, who has to prove what and therefore the likelihood of getting a dsq in the room. Being in the right is only a small part of it.

[BalticBandit]

Oh, c'mon SimonN, you can do better than that.

Do we have a protest? NO!
Did you see the incident? Were you there, on the water? NO!
What are you talking about, then? Stop pretending to be a Ben's lawyer, for the fair play's sake.

....Olympic juries are notorious for not allowing video evidence...

Nice, now it 's juries that are to blame...

Yes, I have seen the incident and watched it a number of times. Even with the benefit of replay, I cannot say he touched, but I also cannot say from the angle that he didn't. However, you seem to have missed the point I was making, which might be because I didn't explain it enough. In 2008, a lying Frenchman got Ben DSQéd from the first race. Ben was sure he hadn't fouled but because of what the other party said, he was lobbed. 2 days later video came to light that proved the Frenchman's version was different from what happened. The jury refused to reopen the case because they said video evidence can be misleading! In the Finn (I think pre olympics) Ian Percy was declared OCS and went to the room with a video that showed he made a 3rd row start. The jury ruled that as the video couldn't be used because it wasn't taken from dead on the line. They said that because of that one fact, they didn't need to even consider the video.

Ben knows all of this and decided not to risk going to the room because it would be his word against 2 others and any other evidence he might be able to find, such as video or an outside observer, might not carry any weight. He learnt from 2008 and this time converted a potential DSQ into a 3rd place.It's not an admission of guilt, but a pretty smart and very sensible move. This really is basic stuff at this level. hen involved in an incident, the assesment you need to make isn't whether you were did something wrong but more about what would happen in the room, who has to prove what and therefore the likelihood of getting a dsq in the room. Being in the right is only a small part of it.

I can't tell if Ainsle hit or did not. One thing to consider is that what we know from Behavioural Economics and Behavioural Psych is that its quite easy for our biased brains to literally mislead us into seeing things that are or are not there.

I've been in a local fleet race where one of the other skippers had taken a dislike to me, and in a really really really tight rounding claimed I had touched. Now I knew it was tight, and watched the mark the whole way round and in fact was rather surprised that I had not touched - essentially it was light enough that the pressure wave of the hull kept separation. And in fact the mark did "bobble" as a result. But at no point did I not see water between my hull and the mark.

After the race the guy was CONVINCED I had cheated. And I was equally convinced that he was wrong and just was willing to see the worst in me.



So I'm not even sure these two training partners are themselves "lying" the way Ainsle accuses them or vice-versa. I can easily see that with all the "karma" involved on both sides (Ainsle having a perception of having been intentionally robbed of finishes before, The two witnesses bugged about Ainsle's antics as well as his uncanny ability to catch even God on a surf downwind ) can combine to create exactly this sort of incident.

And I suspect that Ainsle's coach knows his competitor's psyche well enough that he's letting Ainsle get just wound up enough to optimize his performance.

This is very very very high stakes competition here. Literally millions of dollars of endorsements vs. National Pride is on the line. And this sort of controversial dust-up is in part, why people watch.

[SimonN]

So, at the end of the series, it will now be decided by the medal race. While it is still possible for the Dutch guy to win, it really looks like whoever finishes ahead out of Hogh-Christensen and Ainslie will win gold.

[couchsurfer]

he did the turns, if I were him I'd leave it there. If I were asked questions later by the media, I would simply say that it's part and parcel of the game, and that it is possible to be so focused on the race that i might have touched even though I didn't think I had... therefore, play the percentage game and take the turns rather than risk the protest room.

... yeah,,between the verbal outburst,,and it's clear void of professional attitude,well beyond Ben's usual,,,and today's less than convincing results,,,there's clearly a 'chink' in his armour

..bring-on the medal race

[Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit]

So, at the end of the series, it will now be decided by the medal race. While it is still possible for the Dutch guy to win, it really looks like whoever finishes ahead out of Hogh-Christensen and Ainslie will win gold.

yea, they could drag each other back a little bit. if Postma won NED would need an 8 with GBR behind to take gold and GBR would Bronze. GBR would need a 7 with NED behind to Gold.

[bruno]

Sir BA seems to have gotten his desire, now we get to see how the rest respond. In photos (even with "useless angle" from the ifa labelled "ben close to the mark") he seems to sail his competitors more than the course, why he is so tough to beat. If PJ were just a bit closer then it would be more problematic for him to cover two, one is easier, just depends on not being 8th, I guess. Interesting story about him gaming PJ into restarting, if true. Jonas just needs to start in front and stay there, that will an intersting prestart in the 1/2 duration, close to shore in shifty conditions, ISAF 2x points with potentially 7 nonmedalists in the mix, sir BA's last hurrah in Finns, and no NAmerican presence, medal race.

http://www.slate.com...o_the_sun_.html

[polarbear]

Ok, what's done is done.

What should be the strategies of the Dane and the Brit for the next race. How will the other guy that Ainslie accused of lying react during that race?

[cosmicsedso]

Oh, c'mon SimonN, you can do better than that.

Do we have a protest? NO!
Did you see the incident? Were you there, on the water? NO!
What are you talking about, then? Stop pretending to be a Ben's lawyer, for the fair play's sake.

....Olympic juries are notorious for not allowing video evidence...

Nice, now it 's juries that are to blame...

Wow! Dont attack Simon for his lucid and rational assessment of the situation. He is just stating it how it IS.
You are the one who exchanged rational for emotive. Just because he was not on the water doesnt remove his right to have an opinion. IMHO he is totally correct about juries and video evidence AND he is NOT blaming anyone. I really cant see what your beef is unless you have some other agenda than a discussion on sailing.

[Tornado_ALIVE]

The Medal race should be a classic. My prediction is the Dane will beat Ben. Ben will then board the Dane's boat and proceede to beat the Dane. Should be great tv.

[dogwatch]

How will the other guy that Ainslie accused of lying react during that race?

He's got his hands full trying to keep ahead of FRA for Bronze.

[GybeSet®]

Wow! Dont attack Simon for his lucid and rational assessment of the situation.

He is just stating it how it IS.

rubbish it's opinionated and leading, usual

why whould he change his spots for the olympics ?

[laser71180]

Is there a live stream for the Finn medal race? I can't find anything.

[F15 AUS]

starts at 1400 uk time

[couchsurfer]

.....for the benefit of anyone who arrives late,,I'll cut /paste the tweets of 'the race'.
...if you've got any details of the prestart,,please add it

...read from bottom upwards.......

Finn_Class Gbr just crosses den 6 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Big split Gbr to den 18 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Ned crosses Gbr. Fra furthest right 2 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Den to left and Gbr tacks off to right over ned 4 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Start away twitpic.com/afsgis 4 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Gbr on den's tail in the pre start 5 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Finn medal race in less than 10 minutes. Place your bets. 12 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Almost as many spectators outside as there are inside the Nothe spectator area twitpic.com/afs3xr 33 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Let's have everyone's predictions for the Finn medal race please. #Finns #olympics #sailing about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class @2012Weymouth it's going to be hugely more exciting than anyone predicted. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class @2012Weymouth just another day in the office...except on the rocks about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

2012Weymouth Another Simply Fabulous Day here in Weymouth Sunny but with that vital wind to make it just perfect for Olympic Sailing. #Perfect about 1 h

[couchsurfer]

Finn_Class Gbr slams another one on den. Almost at top Mark 4 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Gbr tacks on den and den has to clear his wind. Big separation on left. about 1 minute ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Second beat Gbr leads ned and den to right. Cro and fra head left 2 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Den and ned round gate together 4 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Fra flies into lead Gbr up to second.. Big comeback 5 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Den right on Gbr transom downwind 8 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Cro leads fra and nzl at top Mark Gbr leads den 9 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Gbr just crosses den

[FishAintBiting]

...

Couchsurfer, you rock.

Thankyou

[couchsurfer]

OH.MY.GAWD.......COULD IT BE????
........VERY exciting.........and short race!!!


Finn_Class Everything to play for still ned need 2 more boats to take gold about 1 minute ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Gate: fra with big lead then nzl cro Swe ESP ned slo fin Gbr den 2 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Fra extending down run. Then nzl and cro. Gbr and den at back still 4 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

[couchsurfer]

oh my GAWD,,a one boat difference,,and no knighthood


Finn_Class Ned pushing for second place. Very close to nzl and fra lead has gone 57 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Gbr just beats den to top Mark. Still last about 1 minute ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class I can't watch anymore. This is so close 3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class The final cross will be crucial. Den far right Gbr far left ned far ahead 3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Finn_Class Den and Gbr split tacks again in an attempt to get

[couchsurfer]

owwww,mannnnn

...ned sooo close,,but had a fowl,,circled before finishing

...the black adder gets his knighthood



VERY preliminary results..ISAF had these up VERY quickly..is it lawyer time-almost a -tradition- in finns ?

p.o.a.....country,,,,,,,position.......points OA
...1.......GB..............9..............46
..2.........Den............10..............46
...3........Fra.............1..............49
...4........Ned.............5...............52
...5........Cro.............4...............55
...6........Slo.............7...............63
...7........Nzl.............2...............83

[Amati]

Thanks couch. Does the queen lecture blackadder on sportsmanship as she knights him?

[couchsurfer]

Thanks couch. Does the queen lecture blackadder on sportsmanship as she knights him?

.....his response....

DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?????
 Blackadder.jpg   56.9K   23 downloads

Ben shares a loving glance with photoboat:lol:

[couchsurfer]

NickHopeBBC "I'd never says never, but I think it's unlikely you'll see me in Rio [2016] - I think this is the perfect way to go out," says Ben Ainslie

...thanks FinnTwitter for the only live coverage I could find!!

[Amati]

For a while I was hoping to hear blackadder, while pounding on a journalist, quoted as saying,

"Don't you know who I used to think I was?"

[couchsurfer]

mannn,looks like the Karma attack is yet to be




...too bad for him-it only gets bigger


I guess we'll soon see how he does with 'teammates'

[couchsurfer]

For a while I was hoping to hear blackadder, while pounding on a journalist, quoted as saying,

"Don't you know who I used to think I was?"

....it seems we were ~4 seconds(?) from Ned making that happen

...and Blackadder was 2nd last

[Amati]

How happy are AC helmsman after they win?

[couchsurfer]

I guess there's no protests
...anyone able to flushout some details from liveviewing such a SHORT race??

...and how about USA-Railey and AUS-Casey,,,where'd they stumble this time?

p.o.a.....country,,,,,,,position.......points OA
...1..... ..GB............. 9.............. 46
...2.........Den.......... 10...............46
...3........Fra.............1...............49
...4........Ned.............5...............52
...5........Cro.............4...............55
...6........Slo.............7...............63
...7........Nzl.............2...............83
...8........Esp.............3...............86
...9........Swe.............6.............. 90
...10.......Fin.............8.............. 92
..............................................................
...11.......Est.............................85
...12.......Seppo's.........................97
...13.......Roo's...........................106

 Blackadder.jpg   56.9K   17 downloads

Ben shares a loving glance with photoboat

...now every optikiddie has a sterling example of what it takes to be a champ!!

[couchsurfer]

...

Couchsurfer, you rock.

Thankyou

...used to get tossed for that all the time,,,now it's -expected-

,,,or is that just an olympic rule,kinetics over 8kts breeze??

[couchsurfer]

here's a good link t'wrap things up!!

[SimonN]

I guess we'll soon see how he does with 'teammates'

He's been in 2 AC teams and in each case got a good report card. Great team player and did his job well. Even when there were calls for him to replace Dean Barker as helm in AC32, he kept quiet and has never publically said anything. It would have been so easy for him to undermine ETNZ - he had been beating DB regularly in training - but he has always kept quiet and I know he has the respect of the guys at ETNZ. Don't see there being any problems at OR. When in a team, he is a team player, when on his own, watch out! He's a very different animal

[couchsurfer]

I guess we'll soon see how he does with 'teammates'

He's been in 2 AC teams and in each case got a good report card. Great team player and did his job well. Even when there were calls for him to replace Dean Barker as helm in AC32, he kept quiet and has never publically said anything. It would have been so easy for him to undermine ETNZ - he had been beating DB regularly in training - but he has always kept quiet and I know he has the respect of the guys at ETNZ. Don't see there being any problems at OR. When in a team, he is a team player, when on his own, watch out! He's a very different animal

...you guys should get a room

[overotated]

I guess we'll soon see how he does with 'teammates'

He's been in 2 AC teams and in each case got a good report card. Great team player and did his job well. Even when there were calls for him to replace Dean Barker as helm in AC32, he kept quiet and has never publically said anything. It would have been so easy for him to undermine ETNZ - he had been beating DB regularly in training - but he has always kept quiet and I know he has the respect of the guys at ETNZ. Don't see there being any problems at OR. When in a team, he is a team player, when on his own, watch out! He's a very different animal

...you guys should get a room

What happened in the race? The mark rounding scheds suggest BA match raced Jonas down to last. What the hell happened!

[RobG]

What happened in the race? The mark rounding scheds suggest BA match raced Jonas down to last. What the hell happened!

I think you just summed it up, Ainslie seems to have been the better match racer on the day. I feel for Jonas, he beat Ainslie in 7 of 11 races and ended up with silver.

[Evo]

What happened in the race? The mark rounding scheds suggest BA match raced Jonas down to last. What the hell happened!

I think you just summed it up, Ainslie seems to have been the better match racer on the day.

Not sure about that...BA was faster today, especially downhill before the pumping stopped. He also had good speed uphill. That gave BA a defensible position for sure but it was JHC that chose the right side for the last beat. They both went there and it sucked while the left had pressure and shift much to Postma's delight. It did not appear to be good planning on BA's part to be that vulnerable to losing the medal to the Dutch but then who knew that JP was going to have a brain explosion at the last mark...all he had to do was follow Slater and the Gold was his.

While a great race to watch it was not a brilliant display by BA....heaps of luck. It was as if Percy and Simpson had no luck and Ainslie had all of it. C'est la vie

[RobG]

What happened in the race? The mark rounding scheds suggest BA match raced Jonas down to last. What the hell happened!

I think you just summed it up, Ainslie seems to have been the better match racer on the day.

Not sure about that...BA was faster today, especially downhill before the pumping stopped. He also had good speed uphill. That gave BA a defensible position for sure but it was JHC that chose the right side for the last beat. They both went there and it sucked while the left had pressure and shift much to Postma's delight. It did not appear to be good planning on BA's part to be that vulnerable to losing the medal to the Dutch but then who knew that JP was going to have a brain explosion at the last mark...all he had to do was follow Slater and the Gold was his.

While a great race to watch it was not a brilliant display by BA....heaps of luck. It was as if Percy and Simpson had no luck and Ainslie had all of it. C'est la vie

Thanks for the summary, it's not the story that the mark roundings tell. Ainslie lost 7 places on the second windward, they were 9th and 10th from the second windward rounding to the finish. Watched a bit of RS-X and Laser racing and it seemed the right hand side was slow for them too, everyone banged the left corner and went in on the port lay line. Everyone who went right or under laid the mark from the left corner was slow.

Why on earth did Jonas go right if he was behind? At that point he was playing catch–up so any opportunity to break from Ainslie should have been taken. Maybe Ainslie went right to cover Jonas, then stayed right to keep the cover.

[Evo]

What happened in the race? The mark rounding scheds suggest BA match raced Jonas down to last. What the hell happened!

I think you just summed it up, Ainslie seems to have been the better match racer on the day.

Not sure about that...BA was faster today, especially downhill before the pumping stopped. He also had good speed uphill. That gave BA a defensible position for sure but it was JHC that chose the right side for the last beat. They both went there and it sucked while the left had pressure and shift much to Postma's delight. It did not appear to be good planning on BA's part to be that vulnerable to losing the medal to the Dutch but then who knew that JP was going to have a brain explosion at the last mark...all he had to do was follow Slater and the Gold was his.

While a great race to watch it was not a brilliant display by BA....heaps of luck. It was as if Percy and Simpson had no luck and Ainslie had all of it. C'est la vie

Thanks for the summary, it's not the story that the mark roundings tell. Ainslie lost 7 places on the second windward, they were 9th and 10th from the second windward rounding to the finish. Watched a bit of RS-X and Laser racing and it seemed the right hand side was slow for them too, everyone banged the left corner and went in on the port lay line. Everyone who went right or under laid the mark from the left corner was slow.

Why on earth did Jonas go right if he was behind? At that point he was playing catch–up so any opportunity to break from Ainslie should have been taken. Maybe Ainslie went right to cover Jonas, then stayed right to keep the cover.

That's what happened and they both found themselves lifting and lifting on port. DOH!! The best illustration of it was the short tacks that both BA and JHC had to do along the Stbd layline to the weather mark. BA two JHC four.

I'd suggest it wasn't so much BA covering as it was they were both unable to lay the mark as the breeze continued left.

By staying right BA showed a propensity to play the man not the shift. Postma gave him that gold while screwing himself out of any medal at the last possible moment to do so. In Postma's defence it was probably hard to tell that BA and JHC were 2nd last and last from that far in front and he may have felt he needed to pass Slater to win. When you see the replay watch for the move JP makes at the end of the run. yikes!!

I'm not sure what story the mark roundings tell....just saying what I saw. It was still a fine spectacle bar the commentary.

edit: an elevated right hand shoreline in light breeze, blowing almost parallel to the shore in the northern hemisphere is somewhere even a hack like me would be wary of. bwtfwik

[SimonN]

Let's try to get the facts straight. Postma did need to pass Slater in order to get up to 2nd. 3rd place was no good to him. The Frenchman was in the lead at that time.

As for all the discussion about the last beat, it is pretty clear that Ainslie deliberately went right to cover Jonas. At the time, Postma was out of contention but if Jonas had got one place ahead of Ainslie, it was game over. The wind was extremely unstable, with big differences in prsssure and direction coming down the course. From lots of sailing there, Ainslie (and the rest of the Brits) know how difficult that particular course can be in those conditions. Ainslie had just watched one of his best mates lose gold because of an unexpected pressure change and wind shift on the last leg. I am sure he didn't want to risk the same thing. And he nearly did suffer from the same thing as Postma got a lift from nowhere to bring him right up to contention just before the windward mark. However, towards the end of the last leg, I think Postma realised he wasn't going to get up to second without maing a serious move and in making that move, he fouled Slater. Did he throw away gold? To start with, I thought Postma had blown it but having watched it a number of times and considered the situation, I am coming to the belief that he decided to roll the dice and go for gold, knowing that if he did nothing it would "only" be bronze. Maybe the pressure got to him, but I don't think it is a clear cut case of him throwing away gold.

Maybe it was fortunate for Ainslie, but I tend to think that oin regattas, there are many of these moments and that Postma could well look back on other incidents and think that if he had a place gain eher or a gain there, he wouldn't have needed to take the risk. In the end, the scoreboard is a reflection of the whole week, not just one moment.

Having said that, I still feel forn Postma. Tough break to come away with no medal.

[Evo]

Let's try to get the facts straight. Postma did need to pass Slater in order to get up to 2nd. 3rd place was no good to him. The Frenchman was in the lead at that time.

As for all the discussion about the last beat, it is pretty clear that Ainslie deliberately went right to cover Jonas. At the time, Postma was out of contention but if Jonas had got one place ahead of Ainslie, it was game over. The wind was extremely unstable, with big differences in prsssure and direction coming down the course. From lots of sailing there, Ainslie (and the rest of the Brits) know how difficult that particular course can be in those conditions. Ainslie had just watched one of his best mates lose gold because of an unexpected pressure change and wind shift on the last leg. I am sure he didn't want to risk the same thing. And he nearly did suffer from the same thing as Postma got a lift from nowhere to bring him right up to contention just before the windward mark. However, towards the end of the last leg, I think Postma realised he wasn't going to get up to second without maing a serious move and in making that move, he fouled Slater. Did he throw away gold? To start with, I thought Postma had blown it but having watched it a number of times and considered the situation, I am coming to the belief that he decided to roll the dice and go for gold, knowing that if he did nothing it would "only" be bronze. Maybe the pressure got to him, but I don't think it is a clear cut case of him throwing away gold.

Maybe it was fortunate for Ainslie, but I tend to think that oin regattas, there are many of these moments and that Postma could well look back on other incidents and think that if he had a place gain eher or a gain there, he wouldn't have needed to take the risk. In the end, the scoreboard is a reflection of the whole week, not just one moment.

Having said that, I still feel forn Postma. Tough break to come away with no medal.

you are correct...my math was bad. Apologies. I had them as tied if PJ ran third....he wins

No one is disagreeing that BA went right to cover JHC. It was JHC that chose the side. Ainslie covered which must have been difficult as he is supposed to be brilliant at seeing the breeze. He must have seen there was more pressure left as that's which gate he took. JHC had to split...he tried...it didn't work.

I also agree there were moments that all three could look at and do differently. JHC's capsize comes to mind. Ainslie was still blessed (the breeze went light) and must have been anxious on the last run. Any system that rewards a player that hasn't won as much as the other guy needs reviewing.

It's in the record books now. C'est la vie....what can you do about Richard Simmonds? and that silly sig line while yer at it. I'll be having a word with backhouse about that.

[G.R.F.]

No doubt Ainslie went for the cover, but the question is did he even need to, he was at a 12 kg weight advantage had some super light mono tissue light wind sail up, after crapping otu at the start, he went right, either cos he saw it, or just plain jammed a lifting puff on the right (Maybe what JHC was hoping for and visited the doctor). I thought NED had it nailed, so I guess Karma in the end for that dubious mark touching call earlier in the week (or was Slater helping the cause, who knows), either way the most nail biting sail drama I've ever seen on the silver screen, sailed in the worse place you could find to set a course in Weymouth. Credit to all of the players, better them than me, sailing in that? Think I'd sooner stick needles in my eyes..

[Tornado_ALIVE]

NickHopeBBC "I'd never says never, but I think it's unlikely you'll see me in Rio [2016] - I think this is the perfect way to go out," says Ben Ainslie

That's a shame, he needs to compete in another 4 games or win another medal to trully be the greatest Olympic sailor of all time.

[Luke Piewalker]

Who else has 4 golds and a Silver?

[Tornado_ALIVE]

.... I missed the silver. OK BA more sucessfull at the Games

[Luke Piewalker]

I was thinking there was someone I had never heard of but should have...
It's too much time spent listening to the BBC commentators, who have nary mentioned the Silver, although it was very important in the great scheme of things.

[RobG]

Just had to comment on the front page Finn article:

Postma then got greedy and fouled another boat while trying to move into second place

Greedy? I thought the idea was to win, not settle for second or third or whatever.

[SimonN]

Just had to comment on the front page Finn article:

Postma then got greedy and fouled another boat while trying to move into second place

Greedy? I thought the idea was to win, not settle for second or third or whatever.

In most sailing championships, there is really very little difference between coming 3rd or 4th. Nobody usually remembers who finished in those positions. In the Olympics, it is the difference. #rd, and you are an Olympic medalist, which in my book means something. 4th, and you are a nobody. In this case, Postma decided to gamble, betting his place as an olympic medalist against a long shot of winning gold, which a move that was high risk and really didn't have a huge chance of succeeding. IMO, he had a serious rush of blood to the head, as evidenced by the lack of care and distance he left between himself and the other boat. It was an error of judgement all round. Was it being greedy? Probably.

[Presuming Ed]

Ben's gold postbox and stamp. (For all GBR gold medallists, the Royal Mail issue stamps the day after the win, and a postbox in the competitor's home town is painted gold).

 ben.jpg   34.95K   11 downloads

[couchsurfer]

Just had to comment on the front page Finn article:

Postma then got greedy and fouled another boat while trying to move into second place

Greedy? I thought the idea was to win, not settle for second or third or whatever.

In most sailing championships, there is really very little difference between coming 3rd or 4th. Nobody usually remembers who finished in those positions. In the Olympics, it is the difference. #rd, and you are an Olympic medalist, which in my book means something. 4th, and you are a nobody. In this case, Postma decided to gamble, betting his place as an olympic medalist against a long shot of winning gold, which a move that was high risk and really didn't have a huge chance of succeeding. IMO, he had a serious rush of blood to the head, as evidenced by the lack of care and distance he left between himself and the other boat. It was an error of judgement all round. Was it being greedy? Probably.

...there's no beating 'destiny'

[avantgardaclue]

Talking Karma looks like Anna Tunnicliffe blows it on home waters.

[jwlbrace]

A little harsh- she was a kid when she moved stateside, she's married an American and her life is there.... she's an American representing the US, no one really cares she was born in the UK and only the moronic element of the British would be crowing if she medalled again.

[RobG]

Just had to comment on the front page Finn article:

Postma then got greedy and fouled another boat while trying to move into second place

Greedy? I thought the idea was to win, not settle for second or third or whatever.

[...]In this case, Postma decided to gamble, betting his place as an olympic medalist against a long shot of winning gold, which a move that was high risk and really didn't have a huge chance of succeeding. IMO, he had a serious rush of blood to the head, as evidenced by the lack of care and distance he left between himself and the other boat. It was an error of judgement all round. Was it being greedy? Probably.

Perhaps his move was ambitious, or low percentage, or even dumb. But I don't think you can call someone greedy for trying to win. Would you really be happy to settle for third best while there was still a chance for first? Should Ainslie have just settled for silver? After all, he gambled that 9th would be good enough provided Hogh–Christensen was 10th.

[Reht]

Just had to comment on the front page Finn article:

Postma then got greedy and fouled another boat while trying to move into second place

Greedy? I thought the idea was to win, not settle for second or third or whatever.

[...]In this case, Postma decided to gamble, betting his place as an olympic medalist against a long shot of winning gold, which a move that was high risk and really didn't have a huge chance of succeeding. IMO, he had a serious rush of blood to the head, as evidenced by the lack of care and distance he left between himself and the other boat. It was an error of judgement all round. Was it being greedy? Probably.

Perhaps his move was ambitious, or low percentage, or even dumb. But I don't think you can call someone greedy for trying to win. Would you really be happy to settle for third best while there was still a chance for first? Should Ainslie have just settled for silver? After all, he gambled that 9th would be good enough provided Hogh–Christensen was 10th.

He was in 9th because H-C was in 10th. Ainslie's goal that race was to keep H-C behind him, so he played a covering game which led him out to the wrong side a few times and kept him distracted from controlling the whole fleet. He gambled that ignoring the rest of the fleet and concentrating on H-C would still earn him a gold (and considering the circumstances that bet had pretty good odds), but it nearly cost him the gold. I'm sure Postma had his reasons and thought it would work out, unfortunately for him it did not.

[skiffboy]

Just had to comment on the front page Finn article:

Postma then got greedy and fouled another boat while trying to move into second place

Greedy? I thought the idea was to win, not settle for second or third or whatever.

In most sailing championships, there is really very little difference between coming 3rd or 4th. Nobody usually remembers who finished in those positions. In the Olympics, it is the difference. #rd, and you are an Olympic medalist, which in my book means something. 4th, and you are a nobody. In this case, Postma decided to gamble, betting his place as an olympic medalist against a long shot of winning gold, which a move that was high risk and really didn't have a huge chance of succeeding. IMO, he had a serious rush of blood to the head, as evidenced by the lack of care and distance he left between himself and the other boat. It was an error of judgement all round. Was it being greedy? Probably.

PJ had better downwind speed than Barker and managed to close the gap as they were approaching the bottom mark. He then got a gust and a wave that DB didn't have so does PJ 1) keep going and plow into the back of the kiwi hoping to sink him (the obvious choice for any self-respecting aussie ) 2) bear away and go to leeward, be stuck in gas going into the mark and across the following reach, have no rights at the mark and so risk letting 5 boats pass, or 3) pass to windward, possibly gain 1 place before the mark, if not then certainly not lose others hence keeping him in the medals??

Honestly guys, basic sailboat strategy there and you all know it.

Problems came after the pass when PJ eased his main out too far and forgot to allow for the bloody big camera some prick had bolted to the back of the boats only that morning. There was no attack from the kiwi to protect his lane, he obviously thought it was a clean pass. In fact, I'd be very interested to know if, at the moment of contact, they were in the zone? Must have been close.

[bruno]

dan slater not db, there are more than 1 kiwi

[skiffboy]

shit. this is why I normally keep my mouth shut.

[freamo]

can't believe no one's moaned about Ben leading at the AC racing yet.

Ben Ainslie, in association with "Whoop Ass"

[couchsurfer]

can't believe no one's moaned about Ben leading at the AC racing yet.

Ben Ainslie, in association with "Whoop Ass"

...this says it all..... http://gobarbra.com/...040f9c9ca21cc16

[High Flow]

BA is the man! (or at least the sailor!)
should have won the AC at sf in october '12 too. fuck that oracle bastard
imagine it was down to pure sailing skills, team gbr gets hooked and takes the ac.
new world order