27 replies to this topic

[oioi]

there was a snippet in seahorse this month, that camper were alledgedly taking 1.5tonnes of rice on board for each leg (this is allowed as it is food) and using it as additional ballast. Anybody got a back up to that story? Also any other good gossip like that from the race?

[winchfodder]

If it was true, then surely must be some sort of Rule 69 transgression against the spirit or intention of the race rules. And if Camper was 'at it' as alledged, then likely the others as well.

[scottmax]

In a race when the the crew cut tooth brushes down to save weight I find it a bit hard to believe that they would load 1.5 tonne of anything onto the boat. And could you imagine the rice after a few days of sloshing around in the wet! It would take some serious packaging to stop it breaking.
This is a big load of crazy shit for sure.

[European Bloke]

That's a metric fuckload of rice. Doesn't sound right to me. If you were going to play that game I think you'd pick something else.

[Turkey Slapper]

That's a metric fuckload of rice. Doesn't sound right to me. If you were going to play that game I think you'd pick something else.

A metric shitload of Rum/beer would be more legit!

[Presuming Ed]

I had this vague idea that somewhere in the NOR/VO70 rule/SIs was a weight limit on stores?

[Francis Vaughan]

I had this vague idea that somewhere in the NOR/VO70 rule/SIs was a weight limit on stores?

Can't find any such rule. About the only reference is that food must be removed for the basic measuring. There is a prohibition on moving liquids about to change the trim of the boat, rice of course isn't a liquid.
Booze would clearly breach that rule. Pedantically even stacking a food box containing cooking oil would breach them.

I could imagine that if your weather forecast was such that carrying additional ballast in the early stages of the race was an advantage taking a gratuitous amount of food would work. But once the wind dropped one would assume that the crew would need to heave it overboard. However rather than just rice, I would imagine taking actual, ready to eat, nice, food would be appreciated by the crew. The rules do seem to have a potential hole here.

[Swanno (Ohf Shore)]

In a race when the the crew cut tooth brushes down to save weight I find it a bit hard to believe that they would load 1.5 tonne of anything onto the boat. And could you imagine the rice after a few days of sloshing around in the wet! It would take some serious packaging to stop it breaking.
This is a big load of crazy shit for sure.

Vaccume packed into bricks, it would be very easy to move around.

Considering all the images from the boats, i think it would have been spotted.

[ColinG]

Must have never watched Hornblower to consider that stunt!

[pidry]

Sounds impropable ... but on the other hand, you load 1.5 tonnes of rice (or whatever mass you want) and get ... let me see ... mother uses 3 cups of water for each cup of rice ... but rice is much lighter ... so ... 6-8 tonnes ( = 6000 - 8000 kg!!!) to trim your boat. Seems legit

[jc172528]

That's a metric fuckload of rice. Doesn't sound right to me. If you were going to play that game I think you'd pick something else.

A metric shitload of Rum/beer would be more legit!

Ummmm, if it was 1.5 tonnes of Steinlager it could be creditable, and explain the variable performance.

[nixon]

The Seahorse article was a bit bitchy in tone. It also mentioned persistently sick crew. I got the impression it was a bit of a whinge from the Spanish 9rightly or wrongly).

[Serge A. Storms]

1.5 tons of rice? Christ, how many gallons of soy sauce did they bring along?

Kind of a lame move if they really did it.... Within the letter of the rule but not within the spirit of it.... Wonder if the boat was designed with the rice ballast system in mind from the get-go? Anybody know if the other teams were pushing it that far?

Serge

[CrushDigital]

1.5 tons of rice? Christ, how many gallons of soy sauce did they bring along?

Kind of a lame move if they really did it.... Within the letter of the rule but not within the spirit of it.... Wonder if the boat was designed with the rice ballast system in mind from the get-go? Anybody know if the other teams were pushing it that far?

Serge

Good for them if it was, I think it's a pretty big trade-off. All the videos I've seen making moving the stack in those cramped confines a major chore, no imagine that olong with the sails and all the personal gear you are also tossing around 150 20lb sacks fo rice.

[pogen]

Must have never watched Hornblower to consider that stunt!

That was my first thought as well. Would serve 'em right to have their decks explode!

For those who have not read HH about a hundred times:

Hornblower and the Cargo of Rice

In The Cargo of Rice, aboard the Indefatigable, the newly situated Midshipman Hornblower is put in command of the French ship Marie Galante, carrying a cargo of rice from New Orleans, by order of Captain Pellew after it is taken as a prize. It is Hornblower's first time in command of a ship since joining the Royal Navy. He is instructed to take the captured French ship and her crew to a British port where he is to receive his next orders. Sailing is relatively smooth for Hornblower and his four seamen, until one of the crew (Matthews) informs him that the ship is taking on water from somewhere. Hornblower recalls that the Marie Galante was struck below the hull's waterline by a cannonball from the Indefatigable before her capture. They check for moisture but find none until it is pointed out that the dried rice will absorb all of it. They hastily attempt to patch the hole with a sail, but by then the rice has expanded so much that the ship is breaking apart. A massive attempt to jettison the rice comes too late and Hornblower commands all hands to abandon ship. Hornblower's crew and the French prisoners are left at sea in an open boat.

see http://en.wikipedia....e_Cargo_of_Rice

[SailRacer]

Cold to hot Ventilate NOT.
Hot to cold, Ventilate BOLD.

Sail safe!

[the paradox of thrift]

It wasn't actually rice, it was organic quinoa, and it was stored in anti-expansion hesian sacks coated in a water-resistant polymer.

[bruno]

ancient inca trick for their polynesian voyages

[oioi]

It wasn't actually rice, it was organic quinoa, and it was stored in anti-expansion hesian sacks coated in a water-resistant polymer.

so your confirming it, was the seahorse article right and they stopped using it?

[stranded]

no, they got sick of unclogging the shitter

[skew]

A little checking around confirms that approximately 700 kg of rice in a cubic meter. So for 1.5 metric ton would require a bit less than 2 cubic meters of volume. It is plausible.

[onimod]

That might explain the root cause of some bulkhead trouble in the Southern Ocean

[the paradox of thrift]

That might explain the root cause of some bulkhead trouble in the Southern Ocean

The bulkheads were a kind of composite rice-paper (also edible, so they counted as food as well).

[Rawhide]

Would not a ton and a half of chocolate be much smaller in vol? And you have a much better chance of the crew eating their way through it if it goes light.

[freddy]

It was rice because rice is cheap, and easily packed. They got busted somewhere when shore crew dumped a whole lot in some marina bins - VOR not happy, starving millions, bad image etc. not strictly against rules, questionable whether within the spirit, whatever that means.....

[mad]

Haven't got a Seahorse sub anymore, anyone want to give a outline story?

Straight cheating or clever use of the rules?

Thanks

[gybe-ho!]

Quote:

'Spanish designer Marcelino Botin also designed two boats-his Camper design being the only boat to beat a Juan K design in the latest race...despite the negative comments from Grant Dalton about the latest Botin design. But is Dalton aware that Camper at times had been using up to 1.5tonnes of extra ballast in the form of massive rice bags (allowed, since rice is food) up until the last stages? Curiously, once the extra weight was ditched in Lorient Camper appeared to improve, winner her first leg and grabbing second overall in the Galway in port race'

It goes on to say 'also is less known that two of the Camper crew were constantly battling seasickness. They passed up the chance for Spanish sailor Chuny Bermudez to drive the inshore races - though he was good enough for Torben Grael during the Brazil campaign. Perhaps these stories are for another time'

The piece is written by a very bitter Carlos Pich on how he sees Volvo turning their back on Spain with no Spanish designer, or boat builder involved in the new one design concept.

He ends the piece with 'the feeling here is that the Volvo Race Organisation with its very strong Anglo Saxon and American influence have treated their Spanish clients and supporters poorly, there are many examples cited by Spanish sailors, one of which is Telefonica didn't receive one of the awards handed out for the last event in any o father seamanship, media crew or shore crew categories, that alone is enough to make us suspicious'

The last paragraph is included to give a flavour of the whole piece, however it's the first one above, that is pertinent to Mad's post.

[mad]

Quote:

'Spanish designer Marcelino Botin also designed two boats-his Camper design being the only boat to beat a Juan K design in the latest race...despite the negative comments from Grant Dalton about the latest Botin design. But is Dalton aware that Camper at times had been using up to 1.5tonnes of extra ballast in the form of massive rice bags (allowed, since rice is food) up until the last stages? Curiously, once the extra weight was ditched in Lorient Camper appeared to improve, winner her first leg and grabbing second overall in the Galway in port race'

It goes on to say 'also is less known that two of the Camper crew were constantly battling seasickness. They passed up the chance for Spanish sailor Chuny Bermudez to drive the inshore races - though he was good enough for Torben Grael during the Brazil campaign. Perhaps these stories are for another time'

The piece is written by a very bitter Carlos Pich on how he sees Volvo turning their back on Spain with no Spanish designer, or boat builder involved in the new one design concept.

He ends the piece with 'the feeling here is that the Volvo Race Organisation with its very strong Anglo Saxon and American influence have treated their Spanish clients and supporters poorly, there are many examples cited by Spanish sailors, one of which is Telefonica didn't receive one of the awards handed out for the last event in any o father seamanship, media crew or shore crew categories, that alone is enough to make us suspicious'

The last paragraph is included to give a flavour of the whole piece, however it's the first one above, that is pertinent to Mad's post.

Thanks, is this a case of sour grapes? Have Camper admitted or denied this?