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Harry Reid Turns Put Up or Shut Up Challenge Into Romney’s Worst Night


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#101 squirel

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 04:56 PM

Reince Preibus calls Harry Reid a "dirty liar" on national TV:

"As far as Harry Reid is concerned, listen, I know you might want to go down that road. I'm not going to respond to a dirty liar," Priebus told ABC's "This Week" host George Stephanopoulos. "If that's on the agenda, I'm not going go there. This is just a made-up issue."

"You're saying youre not going to go down that road?" Stephanopoulos responded. "You just called him a dirty liar. You stand by that -- you think Harry Reid is a dirty liar?"

"I just said it," Priebus said.


Since Reince Preibus hasn't seen Mitt Romney's tax returns either, what does that make him?


Somebuddy who has met Harry Reid in person?

#102 Olsonist

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:01 PM

Harry Reid is the Senate Majority Leader.
He will be the Senate Majority Leader next year.

Mitch McConnell, on the other hand, will not be sending Mitt Romney a Christmas card this year. Retroactively, I don't think McConnell ever sent Romney a Christmas card.

#103 badlatitude

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:27 PM


Reince Preibus calls Harry Reid a "dirty liar" on national TV:

"As far as Harry Reid is concerned, listen, I know you might want to go down that road. I'm not going to respond to a dirty liar," Priebus told ABC's "This Week" host George Stephanopoulos. "If that's on the agenda, I'm not going go there. This is just a made-up issue."

"You're saying youre not going to go down that road?" Stephanopoulos responded. "You just called him a dirty liar. You stand by that -- you think Harry Reid is a dirty liar?"

"I just said it," Priebus said.


Since Reince Preibus hasn't seen Mitt Romney's tax returns either, what does that make him?


A man who takes Romney at his word.


Well that's the problem, Mitt has already demonstrated that his word is no good, too many times in fact. Maybe he should be half the man his daddy was and release just six years of tax returns and prove Harry is a dirty liar himself, instead of using surrogates to stand up and fight for him.

#104 Jon Eisberg

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:31 PM


Reince Preibus calls Harry Reid a "dirty liar" on national TV:

"As far as Harry Reid is concerned, listen, I know you might want to go down that road. I'm not going to respond to a dirty liar," Priebus told ABC's "This Week" host George Stephanopoulos. "If that's on the agenda, I'm not going go there. This is just a made-up issue."

"You're saying youre not going to go down that road?" Stephanopoulos responded. "You just called him a dirty liar. You stand by that -- you think Harry Reid is a dirty liar?"

"I just said it," Priebus said.


Since Reince Preibus hasn't seen Mitt Romney's tax returns either, what does that make him?


A man who takes Romney at his word.

Then Preibus has apparently never heard the aphorism "Fool me once, shame on you..."

Or, perhaps he subscribes to the Bush version...





In any case, only a fool would take Romney at his word after it was shown to be worthless 10 years ago... although you participated in the other thread about Romney lying back in 2002, looks like the point of it may have been lost on you...


In the 2002 gubernatorial campaign, it was alleged that Romney had gamed his taxes to qualify to run for governor. The Massachusetts Democratic Party said that Romney had lied about filing jointly as a resident of Massachusetts and Utah, a charge that the Romney campaign denied and denied and denied until the very last minute when they were forced to admit that yes, the charge had merit and that Romney had filed retroactively.

In that instance, as in this one, Romney and his top aide Eric Fehrnstrom said over and over, “You’re just going to have to take our word for it,” while refusing to disclose any proof.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/04/maddow-romney-demanded-his-political-opponents-tax-returns-in-2002/



#105 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:34 PM



Reince Preibus calls Harry Reid a "dirty liar" on national TV:

"As far as Harry Reid is concerned, listen, I know you might want to go down that road. I'm not going to respond to a dirty liar," Priebus told ABC's "This Week" host George Stephanopoulos. "If that's on the agenda, I'm not going go there. This is just a made-up issue."

"You're saying youre not going to go down that road?" Stephanopoulos responded. "You just called him a dirty liar. You stand by that -- you think Harry Reid is a dirty liar?"

"I just said it," Priebus said.


Since Reince Preibus hasn't seen Mitt Romney's tax returns either, what does that make him?


A man who takes Romney at his word.


Well that's the problem, Mitt has already demonstrated that his word is no good, too many times in fact. Maybe he should be half the man his daddy was and release just six years of tax returns and prove Harry is a dirty liar himself, instead of using surrogates to stand up and fight for him.


Maybe Obama should be half the man his father was and give Michelle a slap.

Here's what McCain said --

Earlier this month Senator McCain, who was able to review 23 years of Romney's tax returns while vetting the former Massachusetts governor as his potential vice presidential running-mate in 2008, told Politico there was nothing in Romney's filings that would have raised a red flag. "Everything was fine," McCain said. "I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate." (link)

As for candidate credibility ----



#106 badlatitude

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:44 PM




Reince Preibus calls Harry Reid a "dirty liar" on national TV:

"As far as Harry Reid is concerned, listen, I know you might want to go down that road. I'm not going to respond to a dirty liar," Priebus told ABC's "This Week" host George Stephanopoulos. "If that's on the agenda, I'm not going go there. This is just a made-up issue."

"You're saying youre not going to go down that road?" Stephanopoulos responded. "You just called him a dirty liar. You stand by that -- you think Harry Reid is a dirty liar?"

"I just said it," Priebus said.


Since Reince Preibus hasn't seen Mitt Romney's tax returns either, what does that make him?


A man who takes Romney at his word.


Well that's the problem, Mitt has already demonstrated that his word is no good, too many times in fact. Maybe he should be half the man his daddy was and release just six years of tax returns and prove Harry is a dirty liar himself, instead of using surrogates to stand up and fight for him.


Maybe Obama should be half the man his father was and give Michelle a slap.

Here's what McCain said --

Earlier this month Senator McCain, who was able to review 23 years of Romney's tax returns while vetting the former Massachusetts governor as his potential vice presidential running-mate in 2008, told Politico there was nothing in Romney's filings that would have raised a red flag. "Everything was fine," McCain said. "I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate." (link)

As for candidate credibility ----



Well that was a big nothing. What did you expect McCain to do? Hang the parties presumed candidates dirty laundry in public?

As far as lies, your candidate takes the prize, this was from April and its double the size now: http://www.dailykos....e-Place-UPDATED

Reince Priebus did a great service this morning, he kept the story alive for another week or longer. I can't wait to see the polling.

#107 craigiri

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:46 PM

Here's what McCain said --

Earlier this month Senator McCain, who was able to review 23 years of Romney's tax returns while vetting the former Massachusetts governor as his potential vice presidential running-mate in 2008, told Politico there was nothing in Romney's filings that would have raised a red flag. "Everything was fine," McCain said. "I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate." (link)


RD, what year was the amnesty?

Would McCain have been able to see future tax returns that Mittens hadn't even filed yet? Based on current evidence, Romney seems to be a couple years behind in these matters - so Mac may have seen tax returns to 2006 or so.

C'mon, Man, you and all of us know very well that if Mittens took advantage of "I did things wrong and now I get to admit it" tax treatment under the Amnesty Program, what would be a BIG deal.

Really - don't YOU want to know? Really?

#108 Jon Eisberg

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:55 PM




Well that's the problem, Mitt has already demonstrated that his word is no good, too many times in fact. Maybe he should be half the man his daddy was and release just six years of tax returns and prove Harry is a dirty liar himself, instead of using surrogates to stand up and fight for him.


Maybe Obama should be half the man his father was and give Michelle a slap.


Not only is that one of the most moronic analogies I've seen posted here, I doubt I'm the only one here who finds it to be deeply offensive to the sort of family man Obama is, and how much better a man than his father he has become... No matter what one thinks of the man's politics, one has to concede that his life's journey has been a remarkable one, and is the very embodiment of the promise of possibility, equal opportunity for all, and the ability to rise above the circumstances of one's birth that the American Dream has always represented...


Here's what McCain said --

Earlier this month Senator McCain, who was able to review 23 years of Romney's tax returns while vetting the former Massachusetts governor as his potential vice presidential running-mate in 2008, told Politico there was nothing in Romney's filings that would have raised a red flag. "Everything was fine," McCain said. "I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate." (link)



Problem with that is, McCain has never seen Mitt's returns after 2008, which is likely where any politically damaging information would be found...

#109 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 06:12 PM


Here's what McCain said --

Earlier this month Senator McCain, who was able to review 23 years of Romney's tax returns while vetting the former Massachusetts governor as his potential vice presidential running-mate in 2008, told Politico there was nothing in Romney's filings that would have raised a red flag. "Everything was fine," McCain said. "I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate." (link)


RD, what year was the amnesty?

Would McCain have been able to see future tax returns that Mittens hadn't even filed yet? Based on current evidence, Romney seems to be a couple years behind in these matters - so Mac may have seen tax returns to 2006 or so.

C'mon, Man, you and all of us know very well that if Mittens took advantage of "I did things wrong and now I get to admit it" tax treatment under the Amnesty Program, what would be a BIG deal.

Really - don't YOU want to know? Really?


I do want to know, but I'm not going to base my decision to vote on how much he paid in taxes or if he took advantage of loopholes.

McCain's statement is in response to Reid's accusation that he paid not taxes for 10 years.

#110 Spatial Ed

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 06:21 PM



Here's what McCain said --

Earlier this month Senator McCain, who was able to review 23 years of Romney's tax returns while vetting the former Massachusetts governor as his potential vice presidential running-mate in 2008, told Politico there was nothing in Romney's filings that would have raised a red flag. "Everything was fine," McCain said. "I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate." (link)


RD, what year was the amnesty?

Would McCain have been able to see future tax returns that Mittens hadn't even filed yet? Based on current evidence, Romney seems to be a couple years behind in these matters - so Mac may have seen tax returns to 2006 or so.

C'mon, Man, you and all of us know very well that if Mittens took advantage of "I did things wrong and now I get to admit it" tax treatment under the Amnesty Program, what would be a BIG deal.

Really - don't YOU want to know? Really?


I do want to know, but I'm not going to base my decision to vote on how much he paid in taxes or if he took advantage of loopholes.

McCain's statement is in response to Reid's accusation that he paid not taxes for 10 years.

McCain never said Romney didn't pay taxes for ten years. He said there wasn't anything in the returns he saw that disqualified him. And he only had access to pre 2007 taxes.

#111 Saorsa

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 06:24 PM



Here's what McCain said --

Earlier this month Senator McCain, who was able to review 23 years of Romney's tax returns while vetting the former Massachusetts governor as his potential vice presidential running-mate in 2008, told Politico there was nothing in Romney's filings that would have raised a red flag. "Everything was fine," McCain said. "I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate." (link)


RD, what year was the amnesty?

Would McCain have been able to see future tax returns that Mittens hadn't even filed yet? Based on current evidence, Romney seems to be a couple years behind in these matters - so Mac may have seen tax returns to 2006 or so.

C'mon, Man, you and all of us know very well that if Mittens took advantage of "I did things wrong and now I get to admit it" tax treatment under the Amnesty Program, what would be a BIG deal.

Really - don't YOU want to know? Really?


I do want to know, but I'm not going to base my decision to vote on how much he paid in taxes or if he took advantage of loopholes.

McCain's statement is in response to Reid's accusation that he paid not taxes for 10 years.

Ya know, if Romney was taking advantage of loopholes over the last ten years, wouldn't those have been passed into law by McCain and REID????

McCain gets it. Unfortunately, Reid seems to be of the opinion that just because a law is passed, it doesn't have to be obeyed if the administration doesn't feel like it.

#112 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 06:25 PM



Well that's the problem, Mitt has already demonstrated that his word is no good, too many times in fact. Maybe he should be half the man his daddy was and release just six years of tax returns and prove Harry is a dirty liar himself, instead of using surrogates to stand up and fight for him.


Maybe Obama should be half the man his father was and give Michelle a slap.


Not only is that one of the most moronic analogies I've seen posted here, I doubt I'm the only one here who finds it to be deeply offensive to the sort of family man Obama is, and how much better a man than his father he has become... No matter what one thinks of the man's politics, one has to concede that his life's journey has been a remarkable one, and is the very embodiment of the promise of possibility, equal opportunity for all, and the ability to rise above the circumstances of one's birth that the American Dream has always represented...

You must be deeply offended by something someone else wrote or said. I never suggested Obama was not a family man, a nice guy or has done well for himself and his family.

Nice speech, though a bit dramatic for my tastes. I almost shed a tear....not.


EDIT - Obama didn't do that all on his own, BTW. We did that.

Here's what McCain said --

Earlier this month Senator McCain, who was able to review 23 years of Romney's tax returns while vetting the former Massachusetts governor as his potential vice presidential running-mate in 2008, told Politico there was nothing in Romney's filings that would have raised a red flag. "Everything was fine," McCain said. "I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate." (link)



Problem with that is, McCain has never seen Mitt's returns after 2008, which is likely where any politically damaging information would be found...


Would it be found in those 4 years of returns that he failed to pay taxes for 10 years?

#113 craigiri

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:20 PM

I do want to know, but I'm not going to base my decision to vote on how much he paid in taxes or if he took advantage of loopholes.

McCain's statement is in response to Reid's accusation that he paid not taxes for 10 years.


You are not addressing Amnesty. This involves breaking of law and code, NOT LOOPHOLES. If you are saying "I don't care about if Romney broke the law, code and honor system by not paying tax that he owed"...that's another story.

It's strange that my rightie friends seemed to care more about Tim Geithner's 34K or such things....but, all of a sudden, don't care about a Presidential Candidates MILLIONS? Fantastic!


"The disclosure initiatives are part of an ongoing U.S. government crackdown on offshore tax evasion triggered by an investigation of UBS AG, the largest Swiss bank. In 2009, UBS avoided prosecution by paying $780 million, acknowledging it had fostered tax evasion and providing details on 250 secret bank accounts. It later disclosed an additional 4,450 accounts."

#114 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:27 PM


I do want to know, but I'm not going to base my decision to vote on how much he paid in taxes or if he took advantage of loopholes.

McCain's statement is in response to Reid's accusation that he paid not taxes for 10 years.


You are not addressing Amnesty. This involves breaking of law and code, NOT LOOPHOLES. If you are saying "I don't care about if Romney broke the law, code and honor system by not paying tax that he owed"...that's another story.

It's strange that my rightie friends seemed to care more about Tim Geithner's 34K or such things....but, all of a sudden, don't care about a Presidential Candidates MILLIONA? Fantastic!


"The disclosure initiatives are part of an ongoing U.S. government crackdown on offshore tax evasion triggered by an investigation of UBS AG, the largest Swiss bank. In 2009, UBS avoided prosecution by paying $780 million, acknowledging it had fostered tax evasion and providing details on 250 secret bank accounts. It later disclosed an additional 4,450 accounts."


Seems like my leftie friends care more about wild speculation about Romney's taxes than an unemployment rate still over 8% and 5 trillion in deficit spending over the last 4 years.

#115 jimbot

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:29 PM





Well that's the problem, Mitt has already demonstrated that his word is no good, too many times in fact. Maybe he should be half the man his daddy was and release just six years of tax returns and prove Harry is a dirty liar himself, instead of using surrogates to stand up and fight for him.


Maybe Obama should be half the man his father was and give Michelle a slap.


Not only is that one of the most moronic analogies I've seen posted here, I doubt I'm the only one here who finds it to be deeply offensive to the sort of family man Obama is, and how much better a man than his father he has become... No matter what one thinks of the man's politics, one has to concede that his life's journey has been a remarkable one, and is the very embodiment of the promise of possibility, equal opportunity for all, and the ability to rise above the circumstances of one's birth that the American Dream has always represented...


Here's what McCain said --

Earlier this month Senator McCain, who was able to review 23 years of Romney's tax returns while vetting the former Massachusetts governor as his potential vice presidential running-mate in 2008, told Politico there was nothing in Romney's filings that would have raised a red flag. "Everything was fine," McCain said. "I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate." (link)



Problem with that is, McCain has never seen Mitt's returns after 2008, which is likely where any politically damaging information would be found...


Besides, if he ever did something like that to Michelle, she'd take him out. Haven't you seen the last 4 years of news reports on the size of her guns?

#116 craigiri

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:37 PM



Seems like my leftie friends care more about wild speculation about Romney's taxes than an unemployment rate still over 8% and 5 trillion in deficit spending over the last 4 years.


So, the answer seems to be that it would not concern you if Romney was a tax cheat for millions.....

As far as speculation, there is a fairly fat chance of Romney being one of those thousands......firstly, we already know he if "Offshore Man", including Swiss. Secondly, there are really not that many people with that kind of money. So if the IRS knows that just that ONE firm (Phil Grahm's UBS) is involved with many thousands of cheating accounts, it would stand to reason that tens of thousands of others exist.

And Romney is definitely on the list of the top couple of thousand MoneyBags in the USA......

As a rough guide, there are probably only about 1500 families in American worth over 150 million...

Do the math. Romney would have a decent chance of being one of those offered Amnesty.

#117 Saorsa

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:47 PM




Well that's the problem, Mitt has already demonstrated that his word is no good, too many times in fact. Maybe he should be half the man his daddy was and release just six years of tax returns and prove Harry is a dirty liar himself, instead of using surrogates to stand up and fight for him.


Maybe Obama should be half the man his father was and give Michelle a slap.


Not only is that one of the most moronic analogies I've seen posted here, I doubt I'm the only one here who finds it to be deeply offensive to the sort of family man Obama is, and how much better a man than his father he has become... No matter what one thinks of the man's politics, one has to concede that his life's journey has been a remarkable one, and is the very embodiment of the promise of possibility, equal opportunity for all, and the ability to rise above the circumstances of one's birth that the American Dream has always represented...

You must be deeply offended by something someone else wrote or said. I never suggested Obama was not a family man, a nice guy or has done well for himself and his family.

Nice speech, though a bit dramatic for my tastes. I almost shed a tear....not.


EDIT - Obama didn't do that all on his own, BTW. We did that.

Here's what McCain said --

Earlier this month Senator McCain, who was able to review 23 years of Romney's tax returns while vetting the former Massachusetts governor as his potential vice presidential running-mate in 2008, told Politico there was nothing in Romney's filings that would have raised a red flag. "Everything was fine," McCain said. "I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate." (link)



Problem with that is, McCain has never seen Mitt's returns after 2008, which is likely where any politically damaging information would be found...


Would it be found in those 4 years of returns that he failed to pay taxes for 10 years?

Hey, that's just the kind of mathematics they want to use to analyze the returns too.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

#118 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:15 PM



Seems like my leftie friends care more about wild speculation about Romney's taxes than an unemployment rate still over 8% and 5 trillion in deficit spending over the last 4 years.


So, the answer seems to be that it would not concern you if Romney was a tax cheat for millions.....

As far as speculation, there is a fairly fat chance of Romney being one of those thousands......firstly, we already know he if "Offshore Man", including Swiss. Secondly, there are really not that many people with that kind of money. So if the IRS knows that just that ONE firm (Phil Grahm's UBS) is involved with many thousands of cheating accounts, it would stand to reason that tens of thousands of others exist.

And Romney is definitely on the list of the top couple of thousand MoneyBags in the USA......

As a rough guide, there are probably only about 1500 families in American worth over 150 million...

Do the math. Romney would have a decent chance of being one of those offered Amnesty.


It would concern me if Romney broke any tax laws. I'll not make any supposition that he did. Perhaps someone should ask him if he did break any tax laws. Based on his prominent positions, both public and private, I highly doubt he would have taken such a risk.

Would you be content if it was proved he didn't break any laws and didn't take advantage of any amnesty without releasing his full returns for 10 years? Would you simply let it go at that?

#119 Spatial Ed

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:21 PM

Romney not owing any taxes for 10 straight years would not indicate he was a tax cheat, it would only show the public how little the rich actually pay. Embarrassing, especially it your candidacy is based on more tax cuts for the rich. I happen to believe Ried is exaggerating. I think Romney paid a shit load in taxes, interest and penalties in 2009. That return is the one he can't release. But he can't release the 2008 one alone and prove Ried is lying.

#120 jimbot

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:28 PM

I can't believe that the party of FDR and Kennedy, who 8 years ago ran a candidate who keeps his yacht in a different state to avoid taxes, has decided that being wealthy is a sin. You have a President who has failed. You have nothing to run on but this.

#121 Saorsa

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:30 PM

Romney not owing any taxes for 10 straight years would not indicate he was a tax cheat, it would only show the public how little the rich actually pay. Embarrassing, especially it your candidacy is based on more tax cuts for the rich. I happen to believe Ried is exaggerating. I think Romney paid a shit load in taxes, interest and penalties in 2009. That return is the one he can't release. But he can't release the 2008 one alone and prove Ried is lying.

Has Harry actually said which ten years? Obviously, the returns already shown show taxes paid in those years. As I recall, I didn't actually pay any income taxes until I was 17 or 18. So, I guess it could be said that I didn't pay any taxes for 17 years.

Once again, you're right, the rich don't pay a very high percentage rate but, in absolute dollar terms, they pay a lot.

Romneys returns for 2010 and 2011 show personal income taxes paid in the amount of $6,236,389.

#122 Spatial Ed

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:34 PM

Not owing taxes won't sink Romney, but taking amnesty will. The 2009 return would show whether he took it or not. He simply can't release it, and release prior years instead will put a laser target on the 2009 return. Mitts in a tight spot.

#123 Saorsa

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:37 PM

Not owing taxes won't sink Romney, but taking amnesty will. The 2009 return would show whether he took it or not. He simply can't release it, and release prior years instead will put a laser target on the 2009 return. Mitts in a tight spot.

I guess Harry doesn't have the balls to make that accusation in public, eh?

Doesn't stop the folks from the short bus though.

#124 Mark K

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:38 PM

Not owing taxes won't sink Romney, but taking amnesty will. The 2009 return would show whether he took it or not. He simply can't release it, and release prior years instead will put a laser target on the 2009 return. Mitts in a tight spot.


I would guess somebody is going to stand up and drop another log on this fire every time it starts to die down. This was just Harry's turn.

#125 jacksparrow

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:41 PM




Reince Preibus calls Harry Reid a "dirty liar" on national TV:

"As far as Harry Reid is concerned, listen, I know you might want to go down that road. I'm not going to respond to a dirty liar," Priebus told ABC's "This Week" host George Stephanopoulos. "If that's on the agenda, I'm not going go there. This is just a made-up issue."

"You're saying youre not going to go down that road?" Stephanopoulos responded. "You just called him a dirty liar. You stand by that -- you think Harry Reid is a dirty liar?"

"I just said it," Priebus said.


Since Reince Preibus hasn't seen Mitt Romney's tax returns either, what does that make him?


A man who takes Romney at his word.


Well that's the problem, Mitt has already demonstrated that his word is no good, too many times in fact. Maybe he should be half the man his daddy was and release just six years of tax returns and prove Harry is a dirty liar himself, instead of using surrogates to stand up and fight for him.


Maybe Obama should be half the man his father was and give Michelle a slap.

Here's what McCain said --

Earlier this month Senator McCain, who was able to review 23 years of Romney's tax returns while vetting the former Massachusetts governor as his potential vice presidential running-mate in 2008, told Politico there was nothing in Romney's filings that would have raised a red flag. "Everything was fine," McCain said. "I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate." (link)

As for candidate credibility ----


This from the guy who thought Palin was qualified, and the better choice over Romney

#126 Spatial Ed

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:42 PM


Not owing taxes won't sink Romney, but taking amnesty will. The 2009 return would show whether he took it or not. He simply can't release it, and release prior years instead will put a laser target on the 2009 return. Mitts in a tight spot.


I would guess somebody is going to stand up and drop another log on this fire every time it starts to die down. This was just Harry's turn.

Obviously this is in the play book. Death by a thousand cuts. I expect the real bombs will dropped after the republican convention. With the grand daddy surprise in October. Mitts toast, just a matter of time now.

#127 Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:57 PM



Not owing taxes won't sink Romney, but taking amnesty will. The 2009 return would show whether he took it or not. He simply can't release it, and release prior years instead will put a laser target on the 2009 return. Mitts in a tight spot.


I would guess somebody is going to stand up and drop another log on this fire every time it starts to die down. This was just Harry's turn.

Obviously this is in the play book. Death by a thousand cuts. I expect the real bombs will dropped after the republican convention. With the grand daddy surprise in October. Mitts toast, just a matter of time now.

Yup, you managed to get one right...Given his record it's the only strategy left to Obama. So much for that inspiring change you can believe in shit. It's down and dirty in the gutter form here to November. If it works we get 4 more years of this disaster.

#128 Mark K

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:05 PM




Not owing taxes won't sink Romney, but taking amnesty will. The 2009 return would show whether he took it or not. He simply can't release it, and release prior years instead will put a laser target on the 2009 return. Mitts in a tight spot.


I would guess somebody is going to stand up and drop another log on this fire every time it starts to die down. This was just Harry's turn.

Obviously this is in the play book. Death by a thousand cuts. I expect the real bombs will dropped after the republican convention. With the grand daddy surprise in October. Mitts toast, just a matter of time now.

Yup, you managed to get one right...Given his record it's the only strategy left to Obama. So much for that inspiring change you can believe in shit. It's down and dirty in the gutter form here to November. If it works we get 4 more years of this disaster.


Unless Obama is apologizing for ruining the economy, he's just trying to change the subject.

#129 Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:11 PM





Not owing taxes won't sink Romney, but taking amnesty will. The 2009 return would show whether he took it or not. He simply can't release it, and release prior years instead will put a laser target on the 2009 return. Mitts in a tight spot.


I would guess somebody is going to stand up and drop another log on this fire every time it starts to die down. This was just Harry's turn.

Obviously this is in the play book. Death by a thousand cuts. I expect the real bombs will dropped after the republican convention. With the grand daddy surprise in October. Mitts toast, just a matter of time now.

Yup, you managed to get one right...Given his record it's the only strategy left to Obama. So much for that inspiring change you can believe in shit. It's down and dirty in the gutter form here to November. If it works we get 4 more years of this disaster.


Unless Obama is apologizing for ruining the economy, he's just trying to change the subject.

And the "new era of civility" line, that was beautiful.

#130 Jon Eisberg

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:44 PM




Not owing taxes won't sink Romney, but taking amnesty will. The 2009 return would show whether he took it or not. He simply can't release it, and release prior years instead will put a laser target on the 2009 return. Mitts in a tight spot.


I would guess somebody is going to stand up and drop another log on this fire every time it starts to die down. This was just Harry's turn.

Obviously this is in the play book. Death by a thousand cuts. I expect the real bombs will dropped after the republican convention. With the grand daddy surprise in October. Mitts toast, just a matter of time now.

Yup, you managed to get one right...Given his record it's the only strategy left to Obama. So much for that inspiring change you can believe in shit. It's down and dirty in the gutter form here to November. If it works we get 4 more years of this disaster.

You haven't been paying very close attention, if you think it's just starting now...

“I spent much of my academic career telling reporters, ‘Relax, this is not the most negative campaign ever,’ ” said Ken Goldstein, president of the Campaign Media Analysis Group (CMAG), which monitors political ads in Florida, according to CNN. “Well, this is the most negative campaign ever.”

And Romney is the victor — at least when it comes to pure negativity, CMAG proclaims.

Data compiled by CMAG reveals that a total of 11,586 television spots were aired between Jan. 23-29 in Florida.

Of those, all but 953 of the 11,586 television ads that aired were deemed negative. The total of 10,633 negative spots translates into 92 percent of all ads airing in Florida during the week.

A whopping 99 percent of the 3,276 ads paid for by the Romney campaign were deemed negative, while 100 percent of the 4,969 spots sponsored by the pro-Romney Restore Our Future PAC were considered negative.

Read more on Newsmax.com: Romney Runs Most Negative Campaign in Record Year for Florida

On the other hand, seems all Mitt has to do is prove he has nothing to hide, and come January 20, 2013, he can start making good on his promise to create TWELVE MILLION JOBS during his first term...

Anyone who believes he has nothing to hide in his returns post-2008, will likely buy that bit of fantasy, as well...

#131 HardOnWind

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:45 PM




Not owing taxes won't sink Romney, but taking amnesty will. The 2009 return would show whether he took it or not. He simply can't release it, and release prior years instead will put a laser target on the 2009 return. Mitts in a tight spot.


I would guess somebody is going to stand up and drop another log on this fire every time it starts to die down. This was just Harry's turn.

Obviously this is in the play book. Death by a thousand cuts. I expect the real bombs will dropped after the republican convention. With the grand daddy surprise in October. Mitts toast, just a matter of time now.

Yup, you managed to get one right...Given his record it's the only strategy left to Obama. So much for that inspiring change you can believe in shit. It's down and dirty in the gutter form here to November. If it works we get 4 more years of this disaster.

Obama has been dealt down and dirty by the lunatic-right for years now. What goes around comes around.

#132 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:47 PM





Not owing taxes won't sink Romney, but taking amnesty will. The 2009 return would show whether he took it or not. He simply can't release it, and release prior years instead will put a laser target on the 2009 return. Mitts in a tight spot.


I would guess somebody is going to stand up and drop another log on this fire every time it starts to die down. This was just Harry's turn.

Obviously this is in the play book. Death by a thousand cuts. I expect the real bombs will dropped after the republican convention. With the grand daddy surprise in October. Mitts toast, just a matter of time now.

Yup, you managed to get one right...Given his record it's the only strategy left to Obama. So much for that inspiring change you can believe in shit. It's down and dirty in the gutter form here to November. If it works we get 4 more years of this disaster.

Obama has been dealt down and dirty by the lunatic-right for years now. What goes around comes around.


I hoped he would have embraced change.

#133 HardOnWind

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:49 PM




Obviously this is in the play book. Death by a thousand cuts. I expect the real bombs will dropped after the republican convention. With the grand daddy surprise in October. Mitts toast, just a matter of time now.

Yup, you managed to get one right...Given his record it's the only strategy left to Obama. So much for that inspiring change you can believe in shit. It's down and dirty in the gutter form here to November. If it works we get 4 more years of this disaster.

Obama has been dealt down and dirty by the lunatic-right for years now. What goes around comes around.

I hoped he would have embraced change.


First he needs to keep a firm grip on the handle of change.

#134 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:16 PM





Obviously this is in the play book. Death by a thousand cuts. I expect the real bombs will dropped after the republican convention. With the grand daddy surprise in October. Mitts toast, just a matter of time now.

Yup, you managed to get one right...Given his record it's the only strategy left to Obama. So much for that inspiring change you can believe in shit. It's down and dirty in the gutter form here to November. If it works we get 4 more years of this disaster.

Obama has been dealt down and dirty by the lunatic-right for years now. What goes around comes around.

I hoped he would have embraced change.


First he needs to keep a firm grip on the handle of change.


He had control of that grip for two years and there was change, but the major change was a law passed before anyone could read what those changes were. Another major change was the size of the deficit. During those two years the only major non-change was extending the tax cuts. Obama, Pelosi and Reid thought it was a great idea to extend the cuts back then, but 1.5 years later during an election, Obama wants to change that which he didn't care to change 2 years ago.

I do give him credit for changing his views on gay marriage, but I have to wonder if it was motivated by his time in religious contemplation as a Christian or time spent with pollsters.

#135 Spatial Ed

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:18 PM

This is not a low blow. A low blow is telling people the candidate has a illegitimate black child, or didn't earn the heroism medals, or that he was born in Kenya.

Its simply asking for information that his predecessors have released, including his father. And the request isn't out of bounds. Heck, if you are applying for a mortgage, is it out of line for a banker to ask for a few years of returns to prove your status? If you are going for a defense clearance, you think they want to see your tax returns? The American people want to know about who they elect for the highest office. A little sunshine would do some good. Unless you're hiding something.
This is not going away. Too bad Romney simply cannot release his returns and make everyone look like the fools Obama did with the birth certificate.

#136 badlatitude

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:27 PM

Yup, you managed to get one right...Given his record it's the only strategy left to Obama. So much for that inspiring change you can believe in shit. It's down and dirty in the gutter form here to November. If it works we get 4 more years of this disaster.


I'm afraid you're just unfamiliar with the same approach your party has used against Obama and others. Must be tough for Mitt to have to answer to the same type of questions they have:

"Y'know, it's a bit like saying that the current president is a secret Muslim socialist who lied about his U.S. birth and has a fake Social Security number and is secretly plotting to take away all privately owned guns if he's reelected, either before or after he finishes the job of deliberately destroying American capitalism. It's also a bit like saying that the previous Democratic president was a drug dealing serial murderer and rapist whose lesbian wife had her male lover killed when she wasn't hanging sex toys on the White House Christmas tree."



#137 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:33 PM

McCain has seen the returns. What does he have to say?

#138 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:37 PM

This is not a low blow. A low blow is telling people the candidate has a illegitimate black child, or didn't earn the heroism medals, or that he was born in Kenya.

Its simply asking for information that his predecessors have released, including his father. And the request isn't out of bounds. Heck, if you are applying for a mortgage, is it out of line for a banker to ask for a few years of returns to prove your status? If you are going for a defense clearance, you think they want to see your tax returns? The American people want to know about who they elect for the highest office. A little sunshine would do some good. Unless you're hiding something.
This is not going away. Too bad Romney simply cannot release his returns and make everyone look like the fools Obama did with the birth certificate.


How long did it take Obama to release his BC, why, and why won't he release his college transcripts? According to someone close to Harry Reid, Obama was on double secret probation for flunking Constitutional Law 101......twice.

Same thing - different election cycle, though I'd say proof that a candidate is Constitutionally qualified to be President is far more important than whether a candidate has paid the lowest taxes he's obliged to pay.

#139 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:39 PM

McCain has seen the returns. What does he have to say?


Scroll up a bit.

#140 badlatitude

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:42 PM


This is not a low blow. A low blow is telling people the candidate has a illegitimate black child, or didn't earn the heroism medals, or that he was born in Kenya.

Its simply asking for information that his predecessors have released, including his father. And the request isn't out of bounds. Heck, if you are applying for a mortgage, is it out of line for a banker to ask for a few years of returns to prove your status? If you are going for a defense clearance, you think they want to see your tax returns? The American people want to know about who they elect for the highest office. A little sunshine would do some good. Unless you're hiding something.
This is not going away. Too bad Romney simply cannot release his returns and make everyone look like the fools Obama did with the birth certificate.


How long did it take Obama to release his BC, why, and why won't he release his college transcripts? According to someone close to Harry Reid, Obama was on double secret probation for flunking Constitutional Law 101......twice.

Same thing - different election cycle, though I'd say proof that a candidate is Constitutionally qualified to be President is far more important than whether a candidate has paid the lowest taxes he's obliged to pay.


Constitutionally qualified? I'd say it's far more important to not elect a crook as President, we've had one too many of those.

#141 Spatial Ed

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:43 PM

McCain has seen the returns. What does he have to say?

He chose Sarah over Mittens. That says a lot.

#142 Spatial Ed

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:49 PM



This is not a low blow. A low blow is telling people the candidate has a illegitimate black child, or didn't earn the heroism medals, or that he was born in Kenya.

Its simply asking for information that his predecessors have released, including his father. And the request isn't out of bounds. Heck, if you are applying for a mortgage, is it out of line for a banker to ask for a few years of returns to prove your status? If you are going for a defense clearance, you think they want to see your tax returns? The American people want to know about who they elect for the highest office. A little sunshine would do some good. Unless you're hiding something.
This is not going away. Too bad Romney simply cannot release his returns and make everyone look like the fools Obama did with the birth certificate.


How long did it take Obama to release his BC, why, and why won't he release his college transcripts? According to someone close to Harry Reid, Obama was on double secret probation for flunking Constitutional Law 101......twice.

Same thing - different election cycle, though I'd say proof that a candidate is Constitutionally qualified to be President is far more important than whether a candidate has paid the lowest taxes he's obliged to pay.


Constitutionally qualified? I'd say it's far more important to not elect a crook as President, we've had one too many of those.

If we are going to elect a tax evader, I'd just like to know it before I enter the ballot box. Not sure Americans are ready to have an admitted law breaker in office yet.

#143 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:51 PM



This is not a low blow. A low blow is telling people the candidate has a illegitimate black child, or didn't earn the heroism medals, or that he was born in Kenya.

Its simply asking for information that his predecessors have released, including his father. And the request isn't out of bounds. Heck, if you are applying for a mortgage, is it out of line for a banker to ask for a few years of returns to prove your status? If you are going for a defense clearance, you think they want to see your tax returns? The American people want to know about who they elect for the highest office. A little sunshine would do some good. Unless you're hiding something.
This is not going away. Too bad Romney simply cannot release his returns and make everyone look like the fools Obama did with the birth certificate.


How long did it take Obama to release his BC, why, and why won't he release his college transcripts? According to someone close to Harry Reid, Obama was on double secret probation for flunking Constitutional Law 101......twice.

Same thing - different election cycle, though I'd say proof that a candidate is Constitutionally qualified to be President is far more important than whether a candidate has paid the lowest taxes he's obliged to pay.


Constitutionally qualified? I'd say it's far more important to not elect a crook as President, we've had one too many of those.


I agree we don't want to elect a crook, but you seem to be asserting we should toss out the Constitution when it comes to requirements to hold the Presidency. You also seem to be asserting Romney is a crook - meaning he has broken the law with regard to his taxes.

Scary times indeed.

#144 Saorsa

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:51 PM

On the other hand, seems all Mitt has to do is prove he has nothing to hide, and come January 20, 2013, he can start making good on his promise to create TWELVE MILLION JOBS during his first term...

That's pretty much the same lie Obama has been telling for the last 4 years.

#145 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:51 PM


McCain has seen the returns. What does he have to say?

He chose Sarah over Mittens. That says a lot.


Obama chose Biden. That says a lot.

#146 Spatial Ed

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:55 PM



McCain has seen the returns. What does he have to say?

He chose Sarah over Mittens. That says a lot.


Obama chose Biden. That says a lot.

That alone was one his best decisions. Probably the single most effect thing to keep assassination attempts at a minimum.

#147 badlatitude

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:56 PM




This is not a low blow. A low blow is telling people the candidate has a illegitimate black child, or didn't earn the heroism medals, or that he was born in Kenya.

Its simply asking for information that his predecessors have released, including his father. And the request isn't out of bounds. Heck, if you are applying for a mortgage, is it out of line for a banker to ask for a few years of returns to prove your status? If you are going for a defense clearance, you think they want to see your tax returns? The American people want to know about who they elect for the highest office. A little sunshine would do some good. Unless you're hiding something.
This is not going away. Too bad Romney simply cannot release his returns and make everyone look like the fools Obama did with the birth certificate.


How long did it take Obama to release his BC, why, and why won't he release his college transcripts? According to someone close to Harry Reid, Obama was on double secret probation for flunking Constitutional Law 101......twice.

Same thing - different election cycle, though I'd say proof that a candidate is Constitutionally qualified to be President is far more important than whether a candidate has paid the lowest taxes he's obliged to pay.


Constitutionally qualified? I'd say it's far more important to not elect a crook as President, we've had one too many of those.


I agree we don't want to elect a crook, but you seem to be asserting we should toss out the Constitution when it comes to requirements to hold the Presidency. You also seem to be asserting Romney is a crook - meaning he has broken the law with regard to his taxes.

Scary times indeed.


Nah, not at all. It's just that Romney is now facing tougher questions from the opposition, something that is old hat to the right is now becoming politics 101 for the left. Thanks for teaching us how.

#148 Jon Eisberg

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:59 PM


McCain has seen the returns. What does he have to say?

He chose Sarah over Mittens. That says a lot.

Not as much as some might think...

I heard Steve Schmidt address this issue awhile ago, in regards to those in the McCain campaign responsible for vetting his VP choice...

He insisted that no red flags were raised in any of Mitt's returns, though of course that does not rule out the possibility that he may have still managed to pay a relatively small amount... But he said that the main problem with a guy like Romney on the ticket was one primarily of perception, in that between McCain and Romney, they would have owned something like a total of 12 or 13 homes between them, and that simply wouldn't look very good to the Average Joe out there...

Not to mention, of course, McCain had to do something to bring some excitement and buzz to his campaign at that point, another boring white guy wasn't gonna cut it...

#149 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:07 PM




McCain has seen the returns. What does he have to say?

He chose Sarah over Mittens. That says a lot.


Obama chose Biden. That says a lot.

That alone was one his best decisions. Probably the single most effect thing to keep assassination attempts at a minimum.


Thanks, Ed. Funny.

#150 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:10 PM





This is not a low blow. A low blow is telling people the candidate has a illegitimate black child, or didn't earn the heroism medals, or that he was born in Kenya.

Its simply asking for information that his predecessors have released, including his father. And the request isn't out of bounds. Heck, if you are applying for a mortgage, is it out of line for a banker to ask for a few years of returns to prove your status? If you are going for a defense clearance, you think they want to see your tax returns? The American people want to know about who they elect for the highest office. A little sunshine would do some good. Unless you're hiding something.
This is not going away. Too bad Romney simply cannot release his returns and make everyone look like the fools Obama did with the birth certificate.


How long did it take Obama to release his BC, why, and why won't he release his college transcripts? According to someone close to Harry Reid, Obama was on double secret probation for flunking Constitutional Law 101......twice.

Same thing - different election cycle, though I'd say proof that a candidate is Constitutionally qualified to be President is far more important than whether a candidate has paid the lowest taxes he's obliged to pay.


Constitutionally qualified? I'd say it's far more important to not elect a crook as President, we've had one too many of those.


I agree we don't want to elect a crook, but you seem to be asserting we should toss out the Constitution when it comes to requirements to hold the Presidency. You also seem to be asserting Romney is a crook - meaning he has broken the law with regard to his taxes.

Scary times indeed.


Nah, not at all. It's just that Romney is now facing tougher questions from the opposition, something that is old hat to the right is now becoming politics 101 for the left. Thanks for teaching us how.


Obama set the bar for withholding personal information from the electorate. Thanks back at you.

#151 badlatitude

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:14 PM

You know, I don't remember ever getting GWB's National Guard, or term of Governor records, come to think of it, aren't they still releasing Watergate papers and tapes?

#152 HardOnWind

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:21 PM

Obama set the bar for withholding personal information from the electorate. Thanks back at you.


Mittens has already eclipsed that record by a mile.

#153 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:23 PM

You know, I don't remember ever getting GWB's National Guard, or term of Governor records, come to think of it, aren't they still releasing Watergate papers and tapes?


You want to talk about history or the current players on the board? If the former, start a new thread. If the latter, please be consistent.

#154 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:25 PM


Obama set the bar for withholding personal information from the electorate. Thanks back at you.


Mittens has already eclipsed that record by a mile.


If you were a woman, I'd love to have you see me naked and tell all your girlfriends about how big I am.

#155 badlatitude

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:27 PM


You know, I don't remember ever getting GWB's National Guard, or term of Governor records, come to think of it, aren't they still releasing Watergate papers and tapes?


You want to talk about history or the current players on the board? If the former, start a new thread. If the latter, please be consistent.


You were the one who said Obama set the bar. I just showed you how completely wrong you were about that.

#156 jimbot

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:29 PM





McCain has seen the returns. What does he have to say?

He chose Sarah over Mittens. That says a lot.


Obama chose Biden. That says a lot.

That alone was one his best decisions. Probably the single most effect thing to keep assassination attempts at a minimum.


Thanks, Ed. Funny.

There is always an element of truth in a good joke.

#157 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:31 PM



You know, I don't remember ever getting GWB's National Guard, or term of Governor records, come to think of it, aren't they still releasing Watergate papers and tapes?


You want to talk about history or the current players on the board? If the former, start a new thread. If the latter, please be consistent.


You were the one who said Obama set the bar. I just showed you how completely wrong you were about that.


How? Obama didn't release his birth certificate until he'd spent a couple years in the White House? Remember, mind you, this is the most transparent presidency in history.

#158 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:32 PM

That bar seems low. What other President had to release his Birth Certificate to prove he wasn't Kenyan?

#159 jimbot

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:39 PM

That bar seems low. What other President had to release his Birth Certificate to prove he wasn't Kenyan?

Didn't McCain produce his?

#160 Saorsa

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:47 PM

That bar seems low. What other President had to release his Birth Certificate to prove he wasn't Kenyan?

I don't recall the name but it was that other guy with a Kenyan father.

#161 Regatta Dog

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:49 PM

That bar seems low. What other President had to release his Birth Certificate to prove he wasn't Kenyan?


I'm thinking any candidate who was asked would have done so immediately. What other Candidate had to release 10 years of tax returns to prove he wasn't committing tax fraud?

#162 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:59 PM


That bar seems low. What other President had to release his Birth Certificate to prove he wasn't Kenyan?


I'm thinking any candidate who was asked would have done so immediately. What other Candidate had to release 10 years of tax returns to prove he wasn't committing tax fraud?

That was not my question. How many Presidents have had to produce their Birth Certificate? You claim that Obama set the bar for withholding information from the electorate. I have challenged your assertion. Can you support your statement, or do you wish to deflect again?


As to tax returns, how about we let someone determine the average number of tax returns released by the two major party candidates for the last three or four election cycles, and have Romney release that many years of tax returns?

#163 craigiri

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:08 AM

I think Romney would release more years...but HE gets to pick which years.

#164 cmilliken

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:10 AM

The tax returns are just a continuation of the 'Destroy Romney' strategy articulated last year - In this case, it augments the 'wall-street insider' mantra. "He was very, very good at making a profit for himself and his partners but not nearly as good [at] saving jobs for communities," said David Axelrod, the president's chief strategist. "His is very much the profile of what we've seen in the last decade on Wall Street. He was about making money. And that's fine. But often times, he made it at the expense of jobs in communities."

http://www.politico....0811/60921.html


Romney doesn't want to play along.

#165 jimbot

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:12 AM

It appears that Harry has some credibility issues. Just for fun.

Posted Image

#166 badlatitude

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:18 AM

It appears that Harry has some credibility issues. Just for fun.

Posted Image


Just for fun:

"Mitt Romney isn't really a Mormon. He's an atheist who only went along with his father's faith so he could duck the Vietnam draft. He didn't actually try to convert anyone when he was in France either. In reality, he spent all his time in Monte Carlo gambling and buying high-end hookers. When his daddy found out what he was doing, he made him come home and marry his high school sweetheart. Actually, he only made him marry her after the second time she got pregnant. The first time, they got an abortion. Then Romney started using some of the mafia connections he had made in Marseilles to import heroin. By the time he became governor, they were flying it straight into a secret airport they set up in the Berkshires. When one of the pilots started to talk, Romney had him killed."



#167 Regatta Dog

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:18 AM



That bar seems low. What other President had to release his Birth Certificate to prove he wasn't Kenyan?


I'm thinking any candidate who was asked would have done so immediately. What other Candidate had to release 10 years of tax returns to prove he wasn't committing tax fraud?

That was not my question. How many Presidents have had to produce their Birth Certificate? You claim that Obama set the bar for withholding information from the electorate. I have challenged your assertion. Can you support your statement, or do you wish to deflect again?


As to tax returns, how about we let someone determine the average number of tax returns released by the two major party candidates for the last three or four election cycles, and have Romney release that many years of tax returns?


Sorry to answer a question with a question, Sol, but when has it ever been a question that a candidate's Constitutional qualifications for the office have not been dealt with directly?

I have no problem with a law that requires a candidate to release 10 years of tax returns. Tossing in a birth certificate and academic transcripts would make it even more palatable.

#168 jimbot

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:26 AM


It appears that Harry has some credibility issues. Just for fun.

Posted Image


Just for fun:

"Mitt Romney isn't really a Mormon. He's an atheist who only went along with his father's faith so he could duck the Vietnam draft. He didn't actually try to convert anyone when he was in France either. In reality, he spent all his time in Monte Carlo gambling and buying high-end hookers. When his daddy found out what he was doing, he made him come home and marry his high school sweetheart. Actually, he only made him marry her after the second time she got pregnant. The first time, they got an abortion. Then Romney started using some of the mafia connections he had made in Marseilles to import heroin. By the time he became governor, they were flying it straight into a secret airport they set up in the Berkshires. When one of the pilots started to talk, Romney had him killed."

I provided a link. Where's yours?

#169 Regatta Dog

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:30 AM


It appears that Harry has some credibility issues. Just for fun.

Posted Image


Just for fun:

"Mitt Romney isn't really a Mormon. He's an atheist who only went along with his father's faith so he could duck the Vietnam draft. He didn't actually try to convert anyone when he was in France either. In reality, he spent all his time in Monte Carlo gambling and buying high-end hookers. When his daddy found out what he was doing, he made him come home and marry his high school sweetheart. Actually, he only made him marry her after the second time she got pregnant. The first time, they got an abortion. Then Romney started using some of the mafia connections he had made in Marseilles to import heroin. By the time he became governor, they were flying it straight into a secret airport they set up in the Berkshires. When one of the pilots started to talk, Romney had him killed."


Remember when all us fucknuts either provided or asked for cites?

That shit came from Daily Kos BL - Please just admit that you cannot think for yourself.

I cite content and add my own opinions. Thinking on my own.

#170 craigiri

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:33 AM

I have no problem with a law that requires a candidate to release 10 years of tax returns. Tossing in a birth certificate and academic transcripts would make it even more palatable.


How about swearing that they won't take their religion or cult more seriously than the country? Beforehand.

Some kind of written and clear statement - you know, like JFK made over 50 years ago?

One GOP candidate actually said such an idea "makes him throw up".
"Rick Santorum: JFK Religion Pledge "Makes Me Want to Throw Up"


In case you are not familiar, JFK made it very clear that his Catholicism would NOT be his guiding light.
"I want a chief executive whose public acts are responsible to all groups and obligated to none; who can attend any ceremony, service or dinner his office may appropriately require of him; and whose fulfillment of his presidential oath is not limited or conditioned by any religious oath, ritual or obligation."


What say you, RD? Don't you see this as being more important than your college grades?

#171 HardOnWind

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:34 AM

"Mitt Romney isn't really a Mormon. He's an atheist who only went along with his father's faith so he could duck the Vietnam draft. He didn't actually try to convert anyone when he was in France either. In reality, he spent all his time in Monte Carlo gambling and buying high-end hookers. When his daddy found out what he was doing, he made him come home and marry his high school sweetheart. Actually, he only made him marry her after the second time she got pregnant. The first time, they got an abortion. Then Romney started using some of the mafia connections he had made in Marseilles to import heroin. By the time he became governor, they were flying it straight into a secret airport they set up in the Berkshires. When one of the pilots started to talk, Romney had him killed."


I just know that this is all true so don't even try to discredit it.

#172 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:36 AM




That bar seems low. What other President had to release his Birth Certificate to prove he wasn't Kenyan?


I'm thinking any candidate who was asked would have done so immediately. What other Candidate had to release 10 years of tax returns to prove he wasn't committing tax fraud?

That was not my question. How many Presidents have had to produce their Birth Certificate? You claim that Obama set the bar for withholding information from the electorate. I have challenged your assertion. Can you support your statement, or do you wish to deflect again?


As to tax returns, how about we let someone determine the average number of tax returns released by the two major party candidates for the last three or four election cycles, and have Romney release that many years of tax returns?


Sorry to answer a question with a question, Sol, but when has it ever been a question that a candidate's Constitutional qualifications for the office have not been dealt with directly?

I have no problem with a law that requires a candidate to release 10 years of tax returns. Tossing in a birth certificate and academic transcripts would make it even more palatable.

That is not an answer to the question. If you can support your statement, support it. If not, say so.

No other candidates needed a law to get them to release tax returns. Romney should be treated no more harshly than those candidates and no more leniently. Why shouldn't we request that he do what other candidates do? Anything more is punitive, and anything less seems giving a free pass. Why should he be different?

#173 badlatitude

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:36 AM



It appears that Harry has some credibility issues. Just for fun.

Posted Image


Just for fun:

"Mitt Romney isn't really a Mormon. He's an atheist who only went along with his father's faith so he could duck the Vietnam draft. He didn't actually try to convert anyone when he was in France either. In reality, he spent all his time in Monte Carlo gambling and buying high-end hookers. When his daddy found out what he was doing, he made him come home and marry his high school sweetheart. Actually, he only made him marry her after the second time she got pregnant. The first time, they got an abortion. Then Romney started using some of the mafia connections he had made in Marseilles to import heroin. By the time he became governor, they were flying it straight into a secret airport they set up in the Berkshires. When one of the pilots started to talk, Romney had him killed."


Remember when all us fucknuts either provided or asked for cites?

That shit came from Daily Kos BL - Please just admit that you cannot think for yourself.

I cite content and add my own opinions. Thinking on my own.


Yes, Daily Kos, I asked for that I guess. Now answer me this

Remember when all us fucknuts either provided or asked for cites?

Is that everyone except Mitt Romney?

#174 ease the sheet!

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:58 AM

has romney instituted legal proceedings against reid for slander? can he sue? if he can, but hasn't, maybe he's a bit scared of what the court might find?

#175 badlatitude

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:06 AM

has romney instituted legal proceedings against reid for slander? can he sue? if he can, but hasn't, maybe he's a bit scared of what the court might find?


The bar is set higher for people in the public eye. Mitt could certainly institute a suit ,but he must be absolutely certain that Reid doesn't in fact have a credible source. Otherwise, the suit unravels and Reid can go after Mitt for malicious prosecution. The potential for bad publicity is pretty risky for both sides, you may win a suit but lose your political career in the process. That's why you don't see a lot of actions under the law.

#176 tuk tuk joe

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:10 AM

If I had a dog that looked like reid, I'd shave it's butt and make it walk backwards...Posted Image

#177 jimbot

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:18 AM


has romney instituted legal proceedings against reid for slander? can he sue? if he can, but hasn't, maybe he's a bit scared of what the court might find?


The bar is set higher for people in the public eye. Mitt could certainly institute a suit ,but he must be absolutely certain that Reid doesn't in fact have a credible source. Otherwise, the suit unravels and Reid can go after Mitt for malicious prosecution. The potential for bad publicity is pretty risky for both sides, you may win a suit but lose your political career in the process. That's why you don't see a lot of actions under the law.

I think there is a law that you can't be sued for what you say on the floor of the Senate (or house). He could be sued for the press conference, but he didn't say enough at the conference to get sued for.

#178 HardOnWind

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:23 AM


has romney instituted legal proceedings against reid for slander? can he sue? if he can, but hasn't, maybe he's a bit scared of what the court might find?


The bar is set higher for people in the public eye. Mitt could certainly institute a suit ,but he must be absolutely certain that Reid doesn't in fact have a credible source. Otherwise, the suit unravels and Reid can go after Mitt for malicious prosecution. The potential for bad publicity is pretty risky for both sides, you may win a suit but lose your political career in the process. That's why you don't see a lot of actions under the law.


Romney has a very credible source to disprove Reid's allegations. It's in his tax returns. Or he could produce the checks he wrote to the IRS. Simple.

#179 Regatta Dog

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:30 AM




Just for fun:



"Mitt Romney isn't really a Mormon. He's an atheist who only went along with his father's faith so he could duck the Vietnam draft. He didn't actually try to convert anyone when he was in France either. In reality, he spent all his time in Monte Carlo gambling and buying high-end hookers. When his daddy found out what he was doing, he made him come home and marry his high school sweetheart. Actually, he only made him marry her after the second time she got pregnant. The first time, they got an abortion. Then Romney started using some of the mafia connections he had made in Marseilles to import heroin. By the time he became governor, they were flying it straight into a secret airport they set up in the Berkshires. When one of the pilots started to talk, Romney had him killed."


Remember when all us fucknuts either provided or asked for cites?

That shit came from Daily Kos BL - Please just admit that you cannot think for yourself.

I cite content and add my own opinions. Thinking on my own.


Yes, Daily Kos, I asked for that I guess. Now answer me this

Remember when all us fucknuts either provided or asked for cites?

Is that everyone except Mitt Romney?


The person who makes the claim is the one who has to provide a cite. Harry Reid has not done so with regard to his accusations regarding Romney's taxes, or released the video we all can reasonably assume proves it wasn't Reid fucking his eldest son whilst forcing his lover goat to watch.

Do we really want to take our political differences to the point where we excuse that kind of behavior? He runs the Senate, for fuck's sake.

I guess the ends justify the means with some people.

I feel so strongly about this, I won't mention anything about Obama raping that woman in college in front of his boyfriend.

#180 ease the sheet!

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:32 AM



has romney instituted legal proceedings against reid for slander? can he sue? if he can, but hasn't, maybe he's a bit scared of what the court might find?


The bar is set higher for people in the public eye. Mitt could certainly institute a suit ,but he must be absolutely certain that Reid doesn't in fact have a credible source. Otherwise, the suit unravels and Reid can go after Mitt for malicious prosecution. The potential for bad publicity is pretty risky for both sides, you may win a suit but lose your political career in the process. That's why you don't see a lot of actions under the law.


Romney has a very credible source to disprove Reid's allegations. It's in his tax returns. Or he could produce the checks he wrote to the IRS. Simple.


the evidence is in his tax returns. agreed. considering whats at stake, no suit = no taxes.

#181 Spatial Ed

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:38 AM


That bar seems low. What other President had to release his Birth Certificate to prove he wasn't Kenyan?

Didn't McCain produce his?

Yes, and it forced a Senate resolution
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-sr511/show

#182 Regatta Dog

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:45 AM




has romney instituted legal proceedings against reid for slander? can he sue? if he can, but hasn't, maybe he's a bit scared of what the court might find?


The bar is set higher for people in the public eye. Mitt could certainly institute a suit ,but he must be absolutely certain that Reid doesn't in fact have a credible source. Otherwise, the suit unravels and Reid can go after Mitt for malicious prosecution. The potential for bad publicity is pretty risky for both sides, you may win a suit but lose your political career in the process. That's why you don't see a lot of actions under the law.


Romney has a very credible source to disprove Reid's allegations. It's in his tax returns. Or he could produce the checks he wrote to the IRS. Simple.


the evidence is in his tax returns. agreed. considering whats at stake, no suit = no taxes.


If the guy didn't pay any taxes, I suggest we all write our representatives and demand immediate action.

#183 Spatial Ed

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:52 AM

If the guy didn't pay any taxes, I suggest we all write our representatives and demand immediate action.

What action? Nobody is saying paying zero taxes is illegal. I'm sure he has a good explanation for it and followed the tax code. Puts a little reality on how the rich can avoid paying their fair share. But good luck trying to sell more tax cuts to the wealthy after its exposed.

#184 jacksparrow

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:52 AM




You know, I don't remember ever getting GWB's National Guard, or term of Governor records, come to think of it, aren't they still releasing Watergate papers and tapes?


You want to talk about history or the current players on the board? If the former, start a new thread. If the latter, please be consistent.


You were the one who said Obama set the bar. I just showed you how completely wrong you were about that.


How? Obama didn't release his birth certificate until he'd spent a couple years in the White House? Remember, mind you, this is the most transparent presidency in history.

You are full of shit!! Obama released his certified birth certificate during the primaries. It was examined by numerous news organizations and certified by the state. It was the same Birth Certificate that any one of us would use to get A US passport that certified our citizenship. Case closed. It was only the nutters that insisted that somehow that was not enough. No other candidate has been asked to get a copy of his long form birth certificate from his state. This is something that is not usually released. So comparing Obama releasing his legal proof of birth in the primaries to Romney's refusal to release tax returns like every other candidate has done the past 30 years is a lousy analogy

#185 HardOnWind

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:53 AM





has romney instituted legal proceedings against reid for slander? can he sue? if he can, but hasn't, maybe he's a bit scared of what the court might find?


The bar is set higher for people in the public eye. Mitt could certainly institute a suit ,but he must be absolutely certain that Reid doesn't in fact have a credible source. Otherwise, the suit unravels and Reid can go after Mitt for malicious prosecution. The potential for bad publicity is pretty risky for both sides, you may win a suit but lose your political career in the process. That's why you don't see a lot of actions under the law.


Romney has a very credible source to disprove Reid's allegations. It's in his tax returns. Or he could produce the checks he wrote to the IRS. Simple.


the evidence is in his tax returns. agreed. considering whats at stake, no suit = no taxes.


"If" the guy didn't pay any taxes, I suggest we all write our representatives and demand immediate action.

If, "ifs and buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

#186 Bull Gator

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:57 AM

Mitt has repotedly donated a lot to charity. Question is are these satanic charities. Without the tax returns how can we be sure?

#187 Olsonist

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 02:04 AM

Posted Image

#188 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 02:19 AM





You know, I don't remember ever getting GWB's National Guard, or term of Governor records, come to think of it, aren't they still releasing Watergate papers and tapes?


You want to talk about history or the current players on the board? If the former, start a new thread. If the latter, please be consistent.


You were the one who said Obama set the bar. I just showed you how completely wrong you were about that.


How? Obama didn't release his birth certificate until he'd spent a couple years in the White House? Remember, mind you, this is the most transparent presidency in history.

You are full of shit!! Obama released his certified birth certificate during the primaries. It was examined by numerous news organizations and certified by the state. It was the same Birth Certificate that any one of us would use to get A US passport that certified our citizenship. Case closed. It was only the nutters that insisted that somehow that was not enough. No other candidate has been asked to get a copy of his long form birth certificate from his state. This is something that is not usually released. So comparing Obama releasing his legal proof of birth in the primaries to Romney's refusal to release tax returns like every other candidate has done the past 30 years is a lousy analogy

To be fair, I raised the issue of the Birth Certificate in response to RD's claim that Obama had set the bar for withholding information from the American people.

You are correct that there certainly has been no President that has had to pony up a Birth Certificate, have it declared invalid, and have a long form version released. There must be something different about Obama, that would lead some folks to want him treated differently.

#189 HardOnWind

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 02:23 AM

To be fair, I raised the issue of the Birth Certificate in response to RD's claim that Obama had set the bar for withholding information from the American people.
You are correct that there certainly has been no President that has had to pony up a Birth Certificate, have it declared invalid, and have a long form version released. There must be something different about Obama, that would lead some folks to want him treated differently.

Well the difference was that he had a different skin color and his name sounded like the guy who blew up the Trade Towers. A couple of items that ignorant people couldn't get past so they bonded with the birther conspiracy thing.

#190 Jon Eisberg

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 02:27 AM

How long did it take Obama to release his BC, why, and why won't he release his college transcripts? According to someone close to Harry Reid, Obama was on double secret probation for flunking Constitutional Law 101......twice.

You Transcripters are funny...

I don't recall you demanding to see Romney's college transcripts... Why would that be?

#191 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 02:33 AM



How long did it take Obama to release his BC, why, and why won't he release his college transcripts? According to someone close to Harry Reid, Obama was on double secret probation for flunking Constitutional Law 101......twice.

You Transcripters are funny...

I don't recall you demanding to see Romney's college transcripts... Why would that be?

Or Bush's. Must be something different about Obama that makes some want to treat him differently. Sounds like a Farrelly Brothers movie.

"There's Something About Barry."

#192 Saorsa

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 02:41 AM




How long did it take Obama to release his BC, why, and why won't he release his college transcripts? According to someone close to Harry Reid, Obama was on double secret probation for flunking Constitutional Law 101......twice.

You Transcripters are funny...

I don't recall you demanding to see Romney's college transcripts... Why would that be?

Or Bush's. Must be something different about Obama that makes some want to treat him differently. Sounds like a Farrelly Brothers movie.

"There's Something About Barry."

Well, somehow, where academic privacy is necessary, Bush's and Perrys both got out on the internet. I don't know if Romneys have or not. Has anyone actually asked for them?

#193 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 02:45 AM





How long did it take Obama to release his BC, why, and why won't he release his college transcripts? According to someone close to Harry Reid, Obama was on double secret probation for flunking Constitutional Law 101......twice.

You Transcripters are funny...

I don't recall you demanding to see Romney's college transcripts... Why would that be?

Or Bush's. Must be something different about Obama that makes some want to treat him differently. Sounds like a Farrelly Brothers movie.

"There's Something About Barry."

Well, somehow, where academic privacy is necessary, Bush's and Perrys both got out on the internet. I don't know if Romneys have or not. Has anyone actually asked for them?

I may have, but probably not...yet. I need to see the long form Birth Certificate first, and then the tax return, and proof that he has confessed his sins re the TelePrompTer usage, will never use one again, before I even get to the tax returns. Then I might get to the transcripts.

#194 Saorsa

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 02:47 AM






How long did it take Obama to release his BC, why, and why won't he release his college transcripts? According to someone close to Harry Reid, Obama was on double secret probation for flunking Constitutional Law 101......twice.

You Transcripters are funny...

I don't recall you demanding to see Romney's college transcripts... Why would that be?

Or Bush's. Must be something different about Obama that makes some want to treat him differently. Sounds like a Farrelly Brothers movie.

"There's Something About Barry."

Well, somehow, where academic privacy is necessary, Bush's and Perrys both got out on the internet. I don't know if Romneys have or not. Has anyone actually asked for them?

I may have, but probably not...yet. I need to see the long form Birth Certificate first, and then the tax return, and proof that he has confessed his sins re the TelePrompTer usage, will never use one again, before I even get to the tax returns. Then I might get to the transcripts.

Maybe Romney should put his up and ask to see the essay that won the contest.

#195 frenchie

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:08 AM




or Obama a Facist.

I do not think you know the definition of facist then.


neither one of you seems to know how to spell it.

Fascist, fascism, fascintastic. Better now?


It'll do for a start.

Can you define it? Own words, not cut & paste.

#196 Saorsa

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:22 AM





or Obama a Facist.

I do not think you know the definition of facist then.


neither one of you seems to know how to spell it.

Fascist, fascism, fascintastic. Better now?


It'll do for a start.

Can you define it? Own words, not cut & paste.



I have a picture here
Posted Image
But, that was from when we worshiped roman gods.

#197 jimbot

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:43 AM





or Obama a Facist.

I do not think you know the definition of facist then.


neither one of you seems to know how to spell it.

Fascist, fascism, fascintastic. Better now?


It'll do for a start.

Can you define it? Own words, not cut & paste.

Government control of private enterprises without government ownership. For instance, GM is not totally owned by the US government, but the government selected who was named ceo after reorganization. Obamacare will set up something like 40 government agencies that will be controlling insurance companies and the way that they operate (mainly thru the exchanges being set up). Under Fascism government is the primary customer of these companies. The military industrial complex has been moving more and more toward fascist control. While Boeing has a large civilian division to go with it's government work, Lockeed Martin has gone almost totally government contract.

#198 frenchie

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 05:30 AM

Wait - you think fascist states have a consistent pattern to their economic systems? Just gonna leave aside the whole rabid patriotism, social darwinism, racism, classism, totalitarianism, leaderworship...

...okay, I'll humor you. Fascist economics only.


I'll grant you he's corporatist. And militarist. But the other team is even more so.

He also isn't very anti-trade-union.

He's definitely not protectionist or isolationist - he signed the biggest trade deal since NAFTA.


Oh, oops?

Even limiting this discussion to the least distinctive aspects of fascism... Obama only matches half the list.

And even there - less than the other team.

#199 jimbot

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 06:00 AM

Wait - you think fascist states have a consistent pattern to their economic systems? Just gonna leave aside the whole rabid patriotism, social darwinism, racism, classism, totalitarianism, leaderworship...

...okay, I'll humor you. Fascist economics only.


I'll grant you he's corporatist. And militarist. But the other team is even more so.

He also isn't very anti-trade-union.

He's definitely not protectionist or isolationist - he signed the biggest trade deal since NAFTA.


Oh, oops?

Even limiting this discussion to the least distinctive aspects of fascism... Obama only matches half the list.

And even there - less than the other team.

I picked the primary reason I went with Fascist, but now that your brought up the other parts....
We don't have class-ism? WTF are we talking about in this thread.
Leader worship? He has almost the entire MSM with a thrill up their collective legs, and how many people have fainted at his speeches this time around?
The main reason that Fascists were any union was that unions were almost completely communist at the time. Fascist and communists have always been enemies.
Isolationist? Mussolini? Tell that to the Ethiopians.
Protectionist? Have you been watching his ads? Seems like he's spending a lot of time and money bitching about outsourcing.

He may not fit exactly with Italian Fascism, but he's closer to that than socialist or communist. He definitely isn't a constitutionalist or laze-faire capitalist.

#200 VwaP

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 06:08 AM

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">



August 1, 2012
Romney and the Palestinian Culture of Destruction
by Bruce Thornton
Frontpage Magazine

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney is under attack for speaking an important truth about the Arab-Israeli conflict. At a fundraiser in Jerusalem on Monday, Romney made the obvious, even banal, point about the economic disparity between nations. Speaking of Israel and the Palestinian-run West Bank, Romney said, “Culture makes all the difference.” Rejecting the geographic determinism that claims geography, climate, and species distribution account for the greater power and wealth of the West, Romney added, “you look at Israel and you say you have a hard time suggesting that all of the natural resources on the land could account for all the accomplishment of the people here.” Romney’s point was part of a larger discussion of global economic disparity that he has brought up previously in numerous speeches and in his book No Apology, and that scholars like David Landes and Thomas Sowell have developed in their work.

When it comes to Israel, however, no comment, no matter how sound its scholarly pedigree, that challenges the orthodox narrative favored by the Arabs and their Western shills will be allowed to pass without attack. Saeb Erekat, an aide to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, responded, “It is a racist statement and this man doesn’t realize that the Palestinian economy cannot reach its potential because there is an Israeli occupation.” Hanan Ashrawi, a Palestinian legislator and official in the Palestine Liberation Organization, claimed the Palestinians “have to build an economy when they have no freedom of movement, no human rights, no fundamental freedoms.” International reporting on the remarks backed up the Palestinian interpretation by citing the “occupation” and “blockade” as the real explanation for why the Palestinians are failing economically.

These reactions are drearily predictable, including the incoherent charge of “racism” against somebody making a cultural argument. More important, once again Palestinian revanchist obsessions, anti-Semitism, and the jihadist death cult are ignored, and the reasons for Israeli defensive measures passed over, while Western materialist obsessions like “racism” “colonialism,” and “national aspirations” are used to explain destructive behavior the origins of which lie in cultural and religious dysfunctions.

Thus if you want to explain Palestinian economic backwardness, start with the Arab rejection of Israel’s legitimacy, one grounded in Islamic doctrine and culture. For all the duplicitous talk of the “two-state solution,” a critical mass of Arabs simply does not recognize Israel’s right to exist. Nor is this rejection a consequence of an “illegal occupation” of an “Arab homeland” by neo-colonialist Jews abetted by Western imperialists. When four Arab armies invaded Israel in 1948, its purpose was not to create a Palestinian nation, something that has no historical reality. Rather, after they destroyed Israel, the aggressor nations planned to carve up among themselves what was left of mandatory Palestine. This rejection of Israel has been a constant over the last 60 years, as historian Efraim Karsh points out: “Had Arafat set the PLO from the start on the path to peace and reconciliation, instead of turning it into one of the most murderous terrorist organizations in modern times, a Palestinian state could have been established in the late 1960s or the early 1970s; in 1979 as a corollary to the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty; by May 1999 as part of the Oslo Process; or at the very latest with the Camp David summit of July 2000.”

The fact is, Israel was and is an abomination to Muslims not because there is no Palestinian state, but because it is a country comprising what Muslims considerdhimmi, a conquered inferior people whose lands and lives are forfeit to Muslims by decree of Allah. Nor does it help that Muslims especially loath Jews, hatred based on the authority of the Koran, Hadiths, and 14 centuries of Islamic theology and jurisprudence. Hence the rank anti-Semitism rampant among Palestinian Arabs, who routinely and publicly indulge invective and genocidal rhetoric redolent of Der Stürmer. The continuing existence in the Middle East of an economically and militarily powerful Israel, populated by despised dhimmi, is a daily humiliation for the peoples who consider themselves the “best of nations” destined to rule the world. Ending the “occupation” or lifting the defensive blockade of Gaza wouldn’t change this irrational, religiously sanctioned hatred.

This deep-seated hatred, justified by religion, is also manifested in Palestinian culture by the cult of martyrdom, murder, and death that has legitimized terrorist attacks on Israelis for decades. Rather than promoting secular education, the acquisition of entrepreneurial skills, and the creation of a legal system conducive to economic development, too many Palestinians have instead financed, idolized, and reinforced with public honors the “martyrs” who blow up themselves and innocent Israelis on the promise of paradise. A people who dress up preschoolers as suicide bombers and make heroes out of murderers have other priorities than increasing exports, growing new businesses, or increasing GDP. Nor is this sickening death-cult the preoccupation of a fringe. A few years ago, alleged “moderate” Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas named a public square in Ramallah after a terrorist who in 1978 killed 38 Israelis, including 13 children. Such hatred is a cultural dysfunction inimical to the cosmopolitan tolerance necessary in a globalized economy.

The decades of terrorist assaults on Israel bring us to the truth always ignored by those who explain Palestinian dysfunction by decrying “blockades” and “occupation.” All these defensive measures exist for one reason: the intransigence of Palestinians whose religiously inspired hatred of Israel and Jews is so great that they will not just send their children to murder Israelis, but do so knowing they will provoke the responses that contribute to their failure to develop their economy and society. Those who complain about the blockade of Gaza never confront the simple truth that if Hamas stopped raining rockets on Israel and attempting to export even more lethal weapons, this blockade wouldn’t be necessary. And if economic development had been a priority for the Gazans, they wouldn’t have destroyed and plundered the commercial greenhouses left behind when the Israelis were evacuated in 2005. Instead of taking over and exploiting this industry, the terrorist outfits put all their energy into manufacturing more rockets and smuggling in more weapons.

These are the facts about the condition of the Palestinians that are ignored by Arab propagandists and Western haters of Israel. Quite simply, if enough Palestinians had wanted to develop their society and economy, they would have long before now. Their opportunity came in 1993, when the Oslo accords transferred control over the West Bank to the Palestinian Authority, which was and continues to be financed by billions of aid from the West. With control and money, Palestinian leaders eager for economic development would have stopped terrorist attacks on Israel, which over time would have lessened the need for defensive measures like checkpoints and army patrols. They would have eradicated the cult of martyrdom from popular culture and school curricula. They would have passed laws that favored businesses, invited foreign investment, and promoted entrepreneurs. They would have built universities and other infrastructure. They would have created genuine democratic governance that respected human rights. And they would have taken measures to root out the government corruption and cronyism that have made billionaires of a few Palestinian “leaders” while the mass of people are compensated with hatred of Israel, genocidal anti-Semitism, and celebrations of terrorist murderers. But rather than doing all these things, the Palestinian leadership continued to send terrorists to kill thousands of Israelis in order to achieve their long-term goal of destroying Israel.

The reasons for this destructive behavior are obvious. For cultural and religious reasons, the Palestinians who want to destroy Israel outnumber those who want to create a state, live in peace, and provide prosperity to their people. That’s the simple truth, one so toxic for the haters of Israel that any statement even indirectly alluding to it must be attacked, as Romney’s was.






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