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#1 Mike Hunt

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:47 PM

Thinking a bit long term about the next boat.

I'd like a 30-34' sport boat - planing, asym... but IRC is unfortunately the only game in town here for the bigger races. I know that sport boats are traditionally hammered rating wise compared to their lead mine cousins but does anyone know of one that can sail to its rating under IRC? Yes, I know they all can do well in very light and heavy air and occasionally in point to point races but... And no, we don't currently have a sport boat division within our local IRC.

Ideally I'd like to spend $40-60k +/-

Thanks,

MH

#2 Geert

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:14 PM

Melges 32, but not for this budget?

#3 Bulbhunter

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:19 PM

Mount Gay 30? Not really a sport boat but could be close for the money

#4 Icedtea

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:49 PM

IRC'd JS9000?
Don't know of they'd fit your price range though

#5 Vela Sailing Supply

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:00 PM

What do you think about the Extreme 25?

No interior, aluminum rig, GNAV, Bowsprit and spinnaker pole (very serious symmetrical spinnaker), trailerable. Can be raced between 4 or 5 based.

Right in the price range.

Here:

G-Force Yachts Extreme 25 Video

Feel free to PM me for more details.

#6 Mike Hunt

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:06 PM

No, too small - thanks for the input though. I'm thinking more along the lines of and FT10, Synergy 1000, Henderson 30, Thompson...

MH

#7 windseekeryachts

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:03 AM

We can IRC a gp26 for you. Not a 30 footer but fits the budget. Www.wraceboats.com

#8 GOLfa

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 10:15 AM

Ker32? IRC-Killer...

#9 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 10:45 AM

OP
you've already hinted & inferred the answer,

'proper SB' & 'IRC' is a mutually exclusive description,

a UK 26' IRCer weighs 2.5 tons, twice that of a light 1/4 tonner 35 years ago

an SB that size .... way way under half that, actually down to 1/4 of that

you are looking for a leadbelly you can call a 'sportyboat' back at the bar and this wishlist dream question has been the topic of dozens of threads in SA

#10 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 10:51 AM

does anyone know of one that can sail to its rating under IRC?


None,

not against a design 'made for IRC'

get a Borrensen 10, or go to an IRC designer

#11 eerie sailor

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:41 PM

Henderson 30s do not have a favorable IRC rating. Rating ~ 1.118 in standard configuration. Synergy 1000 and FT ratings not any better.

#12 Vela Sailing Supply

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 01:58 PM

Henderson 30s do not have a favorable IRC rating. Rating ~ 1.118 in standard configuration. Synergy 1000 and FT ratings not any better.


+1

#13 Mauri Pro

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:07 PM

Mike,

I use to own a Henderson 30 and it will not rate well under IRC. For that price range you are better off looking into boats similar to the Mumm 30. We have several customers working upgrades for their previous IMS designed boats (adding bowsprits, square top mainsails, etc. I own a Farr 39 ML, currently we are working on plans to modify it to race under IRC and ORC.

I would be glad to talk with you about options. Give me a call at: 1-888-756-8883.

Juan Mauri

#14 DIMITRIS

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:16 PM

have you looked at the Soto 30? but I do not how much it costs....

#15 Mauri Pro

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:17 PM

1D35 may be an option. I think there is one owner that has already modified his, think in the West Coast
(Not exactly a sportboat but still a good boat/option at the upper side of your price range)

#16 Mike Hunt

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:12 PM

Of all of the suggestions, i like the idea of finding a clapped out Farr 30 and IRCing it.

As it's generally acknowledged that true sport boats have completely crap IRC rating, maybe the question should have been - which sport boats have less crap IRC ratings?

#17 Vela Sailing Supply

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 05:01 AM

I wouldn't suggest falling into the retrofitting the boat for IRC if you have a cap on the budget. A Farr 30 in good shape must be running at 50-60K, you may get a Henderson for 50k or less and then you must add the money for the modifications and upgrades.

The Bravura 29 on the classifieds does not look bad, either.

Want a more modern design: give it a little time to the Archambault 34. They are still high on price, but eventually they will become more accessible.

Now, you may want to keep an eye on what is going on with the High Performance Rule and probably you may be able to pick a boat that will fit on it, depending on how the rule goes in terms of participation. Just a thought based on the types of boats you are looking at.

You also need to include in the plan crew skills to make the call in order to have a rewarding program with the new boat.

More than happy to help anytime.

#18 DIMITRIS

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 01:09 PM

The Soto 30 has an IRC rating of 1.143 and you will get a new boat!!! I think that retrofiting an Farr 30 to IRC will cost you a lot of money and probably the investment wont be worthy for such an old design..... and you will not have a class legal yacht. In Athens there is a Farr 40 optimised for IRC but the guys have two rigs (one class legal and an IRC otimized) and the same applies to the sails and it is not cheap at all to run.....If you want to have a look in the european market I think A35 from Archambault is really a good option (there are quite a lot of boats for sale but a bit more than your current budget though) .They sre really fast and very competive in IRC (I used to sail in one based here in Athens, Greece) and I can assure you that it is very fast (it is not a ''sportboat'' but it behaves like one)..... or else have a look on a Corby design...

#19 Mauri Pro

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 12:28 AM

The Soto 30 looks like a great boat but the price tag is around: 124K, similar to almost high performance 30 footer today
Soto 30 - Longitude Yacths

If the goal is to stay within budget (or as close as possible), then I will consider the following (base on previous postings):

- The Bravura 29 looks fine on paper but it rates 72 (good as a PHRF boat) but farther away from the speed of a sport boat.
- A Henderson 30 rates PHRF 45 (but will not rate well under IRC), Mumm 30 rates 45 (same as the Henderson 30 which will be consider a sport boat) but I am sure with the right advice/upgrades and features can do well under IRC.

A quick look to the "to-do" list for our boat (which will be a similar project as the Mumm 30 or similar boat).

- Square top mainsail
- Double backstay / runner style
- add two dedicated winches for the backstay (if needed)
- add a bowsprit

I am sure that you can get a 30 footer (with similar rating as a Mumm 30) for 45 to 50K and then the upgrades will run between 10 to 18K depending on materials and sail size.

A couple of comparable IRC ratings (as a reference):

- J27 = 0.941
- Olson 30 = 0.983
- Tripp 33 = 1.036
- Mumm 30 = 1.090 (OD)
- 1D35 = 1.129

Best regards,

Juan Mauri

#20 Vela Sailing Supply

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 01:17 PM

OP
you've already hinted & inferred the answer,

'proper SB' & 'IRC' is a mutually exclusive description,

a UK 26' IRCer weighs 2.5 tons, twice that of a light 1/4 tonner 35 years ago

an SB that size .... way way under half that, actually down to 1/4 of that

you are looking for a leadbelly you can call a 'sportyboat' back at the bar and this wishlist dream question has been the topic of dozens of threads in SA


I tend to agree with GybeSet.

It is tough to get a sportboat that rates well under IRC and around $60k at this time.

Also, the ULDB don't rate too good under IRC, but it all comes down to when the boat is measured after the modifications.

IMHO make a list of the sportboats that fit your budget and that you would really like and then pick the best rated under IRC. Bottom line, you first need to sail on a boat you really enjoy, if this means a sportboat , then so be it. Check the rating component on the second row of your check list.

#21 Damp Freddie

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 02:09 PM

OP
you've already hinted & inferred the answer,

'proper SB' & 'IRC' is a mutually exclusive description,

a UK 26' IRCer weighs 2.5 tons, twice that of a light 1/4 tonner 35 years ago

an SB that size .... way way under half that, actually down to 1/4 of that

you are looking for a leadbelly you can call a 'sportyboat' back at the bar and this wishlist dream question has been the topic of dozens of threads in SA


Mutually exclusive yep: He's looking for what you and I agree is a "sports Yacht" and unfortunetly there are quite few planing machines which will ever do anything in your trousers on IRC.

my additions : IMS 31, IRC optimised Mumm (Farr ) 36, Sj320, Projection 920, j92 older model, J30, Bene/Janneau junk from the early 90s which almost plane...IMX 38 if you're onto surfing rather than planing..... I mean there aren't that many because as Set Gybee says, planing and IRC are mutually exclusive and penalised so the English don't run up the french shore at over 9 knts while huddled in the cockpit absolutely petrified ;-)

#22 eerie sailor

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 04:17 PM

Mike,

I use to own a Henderson 30 and it will not rate well under IRC. For that price range you are better off looking into boats similar to the Mumm 30. We have several customers working upgrades for their previous IMS designed boats (adding bowsprits, square top mainsails, etc. I own a Farr 39 ML, currently we are working on plans to modify it to race under IRC and ORC.

I would be glad to talk with you about options. Give me a call at: 1-888-756-8883.

Juan Mauri

I agree with Juan.................If I wanted to own a thirty foot boat that was fast and fun to sail, and was to be raced under IRC, it would be a Mum 30.

#23 rantifarian

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 12:51 AM

In a breezy downwind passage race a farr 30 is a hard boat to beat, IRC'ed or not. They can also take some serious abuse

#24 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 12:48 PM

ok now that we've agreed we're talking about keelboats and yachts

there is one (sporty yact) that won't be beaten on IRC by a Mumm
rates 50 pips lower bout 1.04n and can beat a Mumm on elapsed

don't think you'll find a Bull9000 in the states though ?

http://www.youngyach...d-bull9000.html

http://webcache.goog...1&hl=en&ct=clnk

http://webcache.goog...9&hl=en&ct=clnk

this thread should be moved from SBA

#25 Mexican

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:17 AM

In a breezy downwind passage race a farr 30 is a hard boat to beat, IRC'ed or not. They can also take some serious abuse

I raced on a Mumm 30 in the Fremantle to Geraldton yacht race and we won by 45 minutes in IRC. Then again, we were also won the first to finish under 50 foot prize. 220 nm in 21 hours on the 30 footer with the first 30 nm being a reach / beat should sell anyone on this class.

Mex

#26 misconseption2348

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:08 AM

For where you're sailing, go Farr 30. There are already 2 that are actively sailed in the local IRC fleet, they can manage the light winds you will typically see and smoke if it really blows. You can do some simple IRC tweaks with the sails if you want to play the rating game, but there isn't much else you need to do. They already have a massive kite to get you down the course. The only area that you'll get really beat up on is the distance races with jib reaching. Around the cans you are good up to about 12, 12-18 life is hard, 18+ you can stretch on the downwind. Current Great Lakes division champion on a Farr 30. The nice thing is that the sails are already 100% developed and there is a wealth of tuning knowledge from lots of experts around so that you can get up to speed pretty quickly. pm me if you want to get out for a ride.

#27 facthunt

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:35 AM

agree have won the odd irc race in a farr 30, watch some of the us boats have gelcoat delam issues in the deck.

#28 Mike Hunt

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:13 PM

Thanks again for all of the input. A Farr 30 currently seems like the way to go... I've sailed one a few times and they are fantastic boats.

The fact that Toronto has gone IRC Something like an FT10 would be perfect for my young family - asym, some accommodations, fast, relatively easy to sail and relatively cheap - but because all of the main events are IRC, it has no where to play aside from club racing.

#29 hotair

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:46 PM

Except for some west coast shops, the IOR rule set hull design back 20 years.
IRC seems to be another set of rules to try to work around.
A good rating system should be able to rate a boat no matter how it is configured or shaped.



#30 Presuming Ed

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:01 PM

There's a difference between motherhood and apple pie and pies in the sky.

#31 Rawhide

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 12:03 AM

ok now that we've agreed we're talking about keelboats and yachts

there is one (sporty yact) that won't be beaten on IRC by a Mumm
rates 50 pips lower bout 1.04n and can beat a Mumm on elapsed

don't think you'll find a Bull9000 in the states though ?

http://www.youngyach...d-bull9000.html

http://webcache.goog...1&hl=en&ct=clnk

http://webcache.goog...9&hl=en&ct=clnk

this thread should be moved from SBA


The Bull is not quite so competitive on IRC any more, despite having been racing IRC or its foreruuner since around 96, when we beat all the cruiser races at Hammo in 2007, the Bull was singled out for a increased hull factor of 5 points. Can't have a high performace 30'er winning a major regatta.

I would go the Farr 30, it will have its day under IRC and you have the option to race one design.

#32 Bad Crew

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:02 AM

Anybody know anything about an Open 7.50? flippin ridiculous amount of sail area.

#33 Jim Donovan

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:49 PM

Great IRC rating

Attached Files



#34 O30_OldSchool

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 02:53 PM

Dude...enjoy two worlds. While not a true planing sportboat, the Olson 30 has proven to be competitive in IRC. CHEAP...you can buy two race ready boats for your budget. Panther is at .981, and winning everything in IRC3 in the GTA. If you had taken our LO300 time and calculated IRC results, we would have been second overall.

PLUS, you can also join a fun OD fleet. Around Lake Ontario, there are about a dozen boats. Sure, they don't always come out to play, but if the NA's are in the GTA next year, I am sure we will see 10 plus boats.

PLUS PLUS they are very fun boats

PLUS PLUS PLUS did I say they are cheap?

BTW, if your avatar is a true likeness, you will be welcome on a rail of an O30! You will fit right in with O'Naturel!

#35 andyxs

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:34 PM

Hi Jim, Is that your 30ft boat?

#36 mezaire

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 11:38 AM


In a breezy downwind passage race a farr 30 is a hard boat to beat, IRC'ed or not. They can also take some serious abuse

I raced on a Mumm 30 in the Fremantle to Geraldton yacht race and we won by 45 minutes in IRC. Then again, we were also won the first to finish under 50 foot prize. 220 nm in 21 hours on the 30 footer with the first 30 nm being a reach / beat should sell anyone on this class.

Mex


If it's the year I think yes the Mumm won IRC but a T980 beat you over the line by an hour or so if I remember correctly!! Also it was 34min and the T980 ran without a kite for 5-6 hours!! But who's keeping count :o

But either way, you could do alot worse than a Mumm on IRC. I do wonder why no one has put a sprit on one though, especially if you are sailing somewhere where there is no class racing?

#37 rantifarian

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 10:43 PM



In a breezy downwind passage race a farr 30 is a hard boat to beat, IRC'ed or not. They can also take some serious abuse

I raced on a Mumm 30 in the Fremantle to Geraldton yacht race and we won by 45 minutes in IRC. Then again, we were also won the first to finish under 50 foot prize. 220 nm in 21 hours on the 30 footer with the first 30 nm being a reach / beat should sell anyone on this class.

Mex


If it's the year I think yes the Mumm won IRC but a T980 beat you over the line by an hour or so if I remember correctly!! Also it was 34min and the T980 ran without a kite for 5-6 hours!! But who's keeping count :o

But either way, you could do alot worse than a Mumm on IRC. I do wonder why no one has put a sprit on one though, especially if you are sailing somewhere where there is no class racing?

People do put IRC style short sprits on them, mainly to make sail changes easier and for running tight angles in a blow. I think the rating hit on a long prodder would be too high to justify

#38 MSA

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:46 AM



In a breezy downwind passage race a farr 30 is a hard boat to beat, IRC'ed or not. They can also take some serious abuse

I raced on a Mumm 30 in the Fremantle to Geraldton yacht race and we won by 45 minutes in IRC. Then again, we were also won the first to finish under 50 foot prize. 220 nm in 21 hours on the 30 footer with the first 30 nm being a reach / beat should sell anyone on this class.

Mex


If it's the year I think yes the Mumm won IRC but a T980 beat you over the line by an hour or so if I remember correctly!! Also it was 34min and the T980 ran without a kite for 5-6 hours!! But who's keeping count :o

But either way, you could do alot worse than a Mumm on IRC. I do wonder why no one has put a sprit on one though, especially if you are sailing somewhere where there is no class racing?


Because VMG running would be terrible!

#39 Mexican

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:56 AM



In a breezy downwind passage race a farr 30 is a hard boat to beat, IRC'ed or not. They can also take some serious abuse

I raced on a Mumm 30 in the Fremantle to Geraldton yacht race and we won by 45 minutes in IRC. Then again, we were also won the first to finish under 50 foot prize. 220 nm in 21 hours on the 30 footer with the first 30 nm being a reach / beat should sell anyone on this class.

Mex


If it's the year I think yes the Mumm won IRC but a T980 beat you over the line by an hour or so if I remember correctly!! Also it was 34min and the T980 ran without a kite for 5-6 hours!! But who's keeping count :o

But either way, you could do alot worse than a Mumm on IRC. I do wonder why no one has put a sprit on one though, especially if you are sailing somewhere where there is no class racing?


Ah, that's true. But I'm not going to cut you any slack for closing the coast and not keeping the bag up for the whole trip!

Mex

#40 huey 2

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:08 AM

That would be a 'REMEDEY' DONOVAN 27 Another giant killer!

#41 Overserved

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:00 AM

Seascape 27

#42 Christian

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:52 AM

Seascape 27


How can you suggest this? The S27 would most likely get a horrible IRC rating and it still remains to be seen what the final boat becomes and how it performs. I can with 99% certainty tell you it will have a harsh IRC rating and will not be able to sail to it.

#43 Andraz Seascape18

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:35 AM

Lets wait and see. She is not extreme in beam and doesn't have a bulb keel. I think that with some sail optimisation she could do fine in IRC. But lets wait and see. We did some mixed fleet races and are very happy with her overall performance.

#44 Speng

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:47 PM

My $0.02 J92 I dunno what they are $$-wise but i reckon they might rate somewhat favorably and not require a ton of hotshot sailors to get something out of it... or "The Greatest Handicap Boat of All Time Around 30ft"TM: a Hobie 33 :D

#45 Whomper

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:14 PM

Ker 32 for sale in the Netherlands...

#46 Christian

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:31 AM

Lets wait and see. She is not extreme in beam and doesn't have a bulb keel. I think that with some sail optimisation she could do fine in IRC. But lets wait and see. We did some mixed fleet races and are very happy with her overall performance.


Don't hold your breath - just the displacement alone will kill the IRC rating so unless you are planning on doubling the displacement - no go

#47 williwaw

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:33 PM

Ker 32 for sale in the Netherlands...


Way overpriced!

#48 williwaw

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:39 PM

What about that new C30 from Carabelli design, makes a Farr 30 look like a dinosaur

#49 couchsurfer

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:11 PM

OP
you've already hinted & inferred the answer,

'proper SB' & 'IRC' is a mutually exclusive description,

a UK 26' IRCer weighs 2.5 tons, twice that of a light 1/4 tonner 35 years ago

an SB that size .... way way under half that, actually down to 1/4 of that

you are looking for a leadbelly you can call a 'sportyboat' back at the bar and this wishlist dream question has been the topic of dozens of threads in SA



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........thwank woo mistaww thwead powith!!!

#50 Christian

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:23 AM

Dude...enjoy two worlds. While not a true planing sportboat even in your wildest imagination, the Olson 30 has proven to be competitive in IRC. CHEAP...you can buy two race ready boats for your budget. Panther is at .981, and winning everything in IRC3 in the GTA. If you had taken our LO300 time and calculated IRC results, we would have been second overall.

PLUS, you can also join a fun OD fleet. Around Lake Ontario, there are about a dozen boats. Sure, they don't always come out to play, but if the NA's are in the GTA next year, I am sure we will see 10 plus boats.

PLUS PLUS they are very fun boats

PLUS PLUS PLUS did I say they are cheap?

BTW, if your avatar is a true likeness, you will be welcome on a rail of an O30! You will fit right in with O'Naturel!


Fixed it for you




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