233 replies to this topic

[Balder]

You nailed it on Round the island. Exactly what we experienced last year. Even though Miss RTC there is something to be said about sailing in shorts in November!

[wildangels]

Ok back to RTC, stayed @ Pt Hudson Thursday night and witnessed Martha boys bolting on stanchions.... big bronze ones... RTC must be soon!

[Rolencoaster]

Tachyon waited too long to register so they won't be making the show. Anyone looking for crew by chance?

[pnwsockpuppet]

Could we please make this the downwind year again. so much easier on my ass going that way

[n00b]

im actually looking forward to the thrash up Rosario, then right turn maniacal kite run

[Ballard Sailor]

Do we need to have side board sail numbers again for this one?

[Darkside]

I was wondering the same thing. I haven't found anything yet that says you do.

[sloansailing]

SI's arent out yet. They usually require # banners.

[Silverbullet]

They're going to require cabin curtains with your sail # on them.
/s

[BadKitty]

SI's are up: http://roundthecounty.com/?q=node/202

They are requiring # banners.

[Boomberries]

I am stoked about being able to do the race this year! I really missed doing it, the last two years.
One of my favorite all time sailing pics, was this beauty that kite (Sean) took in 2009 of Martha, in RTC.

Attached Files

•  Martha - pic be Sean Trew.jpg   37.07K   39 downloads

[Dan R.]

SI's are up: http://roundthecounty.com/?q=node/202

They are requiring # banners.

If I'm reading the SI's correctly it looks like only 1 banner on the starboard side this year...and must only be displayed when crossing the finish line of the full or half course.

[RavenNW]

SI's are up: http://roundthecounty.com/?q=node/202

They are requiring # banners.

If I'm reading the SI's correctly it looks like only 1 banner on the starboard side this year...and must only be displayed when crossing the finish line of the full or half course.

Might as well put them on both sides at the start to try and keep the skipper dry.

[Eric]

Here are the RTC 2010 results recalculated with the recently changed PHRF-NW ratings:
http://roundthecount...010phrfMods.php

Compare with the actual 2010 results:
http://roundthecount...ts/rtc2010.html

[Asymptote]

Here are the RTC 2010 results recalculated with the recently changed PHRF-NW ratings:
http://roundthecount...010phrfMods.php

Compare with the actual 2010 results:
http://roundthecount...ts/rtc2010.html

So the 40'ers dominate on a rescore. Well, I can tell you that we didn't sail all that well, and those results don't feel right. Icon and Flash were gone. (Madrona....well, they just somehow keep their bow out don't they.)

The Big Boy's ratings changes solutions: Either never sail with the 40'ers or the rating changes have to reach down to include the 40'ers or better....the whole fleet top to bottom should be adjusted. Or go back and think through the problem again, and not make wholesale adjustments to one segment of the fleet using "mathematically-generated" numbers from another rule.

[t22harris]

Madrona needs a few seconds per mile adjustment but Dark Star really got screwed. What's that all about really? Do the Buchan's still own PHRF-NW like they did in the old days?

[Eric]

Here are the RTC 2010 results recalculated with the recently changed PHRF-NW ratings:
http://roundthecount...010phrfMods.php

Compare with the actual 2010 results:
http://roundthecount...ts/rtc2010.html

So the 40'ers dominate on a rescore. Well, I can tell you that we didn't sail all that well, and those results don't feel right. Icon and Flash were gone. (Madrona....well, they just somehow keep their bow out don't they.)

The Big Boy's ratings changes solutions: Either never sail with the 40'ers or the rating changes have to reach down to include the 40'ers or better....the whole fleet top to bottom should be adjusted. Or go back and think through the problem again, and not make wholesale adjustments to one segment of the fleet using "mathematically-generated" numbers from another rule.

In that 2010 race, on Sunday in the afternoon, the wind dropped and the adverse current built. It was a case that clearly favored the fastest boats who finished before the conditions went bad. Having the fastest boats win was not a surprise. The the new outcomes from the revised handicaps looks suspicious doesn't it?

[n00b]

if you think thats suspect, you should look at the results from Grand Prix :I

[jasonj82]

Looking for 4 or 5 more crew for Chaos (Olson 30), or if anyone needs another on their boat I drop the idea of bringing my boat. THANKS!

If you're still looking for crew, I am looking for a ride. jasonj82@gmail.com

[tendegreealex]

if you think thats suspect, you should look at the results from Grand Prix :I

RTC Thread. Not Grand Prix Thread.
Stay on Target.

What about Salmon Bank?

[The Owners Wife]

if you think thats suspect, you should look at the results from Grand Prix :I

RTC Thread. Not Grand Prix Thread.
Stay on Target.

What about Salmon Bank?

Read the Sailing Instructions

[n00b]

if you think thats suspect, you should look at the results from Grand Prix :I

RTC Thread. Not Grand Prix Thread.
Stay on Target.

RTC Div X is comprised of the same boats, ++. The Div X results can now be very easily predicted.

[pogmothoin]

So glad not wasting my time with big boats garbage ratings for this years RTC. Glad that was on one of the boats that broke Icons old elapsed record last year.

Now can go play on a boat that will not be screwed by PHRF Big Boat BS adjustments this RTC. Can only hope that it is half as good as last years conditions and a much easier delivery.

If they keep these BS ratins for the big boats then they will have to go find a different rating system where better sailor can continue to win, not just the biggest complainers on Marda Gras and Free Byrd. My skipper would be game for that.

[Ishtarsdog]

My Picks to Win 2012:

(Have to weather guess to do this: sorry, but we're due for light and fluky)

Dragonfly, Overall and Multi class
Freebyrd, X
Madrona, O
Ptolemy, I (local knowledge pick)
Madame Pele, II (Muffin, Black Boat never to be taken lightly but...)
Blackfoot, III

If it is big air, things change.

Anyone else care to stir the pot?

[Dan R.]

My Picks to Win 2012:

(Have to weather guess to do this: sorry, but we're due for light and fluky)

Dragonfly, Overall and Multi class
Freebyrd, X
Madrona, O
Ptolemy, I (local knowledge pick)
Madame Pele, II (Muffin, Black Boat never to be taken lightly but...)
Blackfoot, III

If it is big air, things change.

Anyone else care to stir the pot?

Good picks, but you are being far to modest. After winning the last two years (correctiung 1st in 3 out of 4 legs) Kotuku has to be the class 1 favorite.

[Ishtarsdog]

Big air, yep, I would pick Kotuku, although Zulu is a beast on a reach--racer/cruisers aren't supposed to throw rooster tails, at least not in our class.

And I'd pick Martha for that matter, over Dragonfly. I just don't see getting the wind card again.

Have I also said that I love big classes, and look forward to having 30 well sailed boats on the start line both days? Just give us a little extra room in the box this year OK?

Thanks to the committee for letting a few extra boats in this year!

[Ishtarsdog]

Oops, no Zulu this year. Bummer. We had a great time racing against them.

[Ballard Sailor]

Chopped liver eh?

[dogbone]

Looks like Round the county put the results for 2010 and 2011 rescored with the new ratings on there web site. pretty interesting.

[t22harris]

Looks like Round the county put the results for 2010 and 2011 rescored with the new ratings on there web site. pretty interesting.

I saw that too. What did you make of it?

[yisitalwaysraining]

probably wanted quell the masses by showing that things dont really change, of course one minor issue with the rescoring, they forgot to change freebyrd from -12 to -9... an honest mistake I'm sure, we used to call it "bad optics" at work.

[Mistaken]

Unfortunately things do really change when you analyze them over multiple races & seasons, and the winners are not who you think...

Take a look at the attached analysis for the 2010-2012 racing seasons when re-scored using the new ratings -- and this is only at the divisional level. The changes are even more dramatic than even on an overall basis.

Another anomaly created by this whole re-ratings mess is that the multi-hull ratings were not adjusted and remain way lower than US Sailing Averages. In contrast the new mono-hull ratings are 20-30 seconds faster than the national averages for many boats - go figure!

Why does this matter you ask - in RTC the multi-hulls are scored with the mono-hulls on an overall basis. If we have any wind we should expect the multi-hulls to completely dominate. RTC RC - if you are listening you should change this...

PHRF-NW needs to get this mess sorted out quickly or they could be spending a lot of time defending their actions at the national level...

Attached Files

•  2010-2012 Big Boat Rating Analysis (position changes).pdf   291.59K   62 downloads

[yisitalwaysraining]

Who's to get in trouble with? As they have stated; this is the Pacific Handicap Rating System, NOT the Performance Handicap Rating Sysyem.
I'm assuming that's why, when they feel like it they can base a boats ratings off of ORR and IRC derived values (or should I say the values of similar vessles, as most of the boats in question have certs for niether)

[Mistaken]

On the contrary - if you read Section T-4 of the 2012 PHRF Bylaws you can read for yourself that PHRF-NW is operating under the national PHRF umbrella as managed by US Sailing. Any member can appeal their rating to the national level after exhausting the due process provided to them at a regional level (ie - PHRF-NW).

Furthermore, US Sailing (who also runs ORR and manages IRC in the US) has stated on numerous occasions that ORR or IRC conversions should not be used to set PHRF ratings. The reason for this is that these mechanisms are relatively imprecise, are highly dependent on the wind matrix in use, and have been type-formed by various designers. Regional ratings that have been set using such conversions will likely not stand when/if appealed at a national level.

For those so inclined, attached is a comparison of the PHRF-NW ORR conversion model when applied to other established classes -- for example, using the PHRF-NW ORR conversion model a Cal-40 would be rated at 178 (locally at 129), a Hobie 33 would be rated at 123 (locally at 96), etc. If you look at the second page of the analysis you can see that the errors get worse with slower boats showing that in addition to be imprecise, the PHRF-NW ORR conversion model is also very biased.

So why should you care? Well the next time your boat gets a rating review (say you had to replace your keel like Voodoo Child) you could be in for a very, very big surprise...

Attached Files

•  Statistical Error Analysis of ORR Conversion Method.pdf   122.22K   29 downloads

[pogmothoin]

Why not just accept that PHRF NW has no interest in fairness, the best sailed boats winning and is a politiical organization. When the big boat raters themselves have cherry picked boats that sail so much faster than their ratings, be it the Aerodyne 38, the X99 or Coruba. Their own boats make ZERO sense from a pure performance rating stand point and they are happy to let the Fastest ever SC52 rate slower than a SC50 until it finally got bumped to now owe the SC50 just 6 seconds, because the owner of the SC52 does not drive so well when drunk but is a really really good complainer at PHRF rating meetings.

The solution is to only sail what the raters sail or rate based on poor sailing by the owner with good complaining, so in big boats one just needs a Swan 45 or a SC52 until they get their butts handed to them and they have to change to something else.

Throughout the entire fleet I have always ended up racing on boats that give time to other boats that are faster than them in all directions in almost all conditions be it the J109, Aerodyne 38, C&C115, SC52, Dart27, X119, X99, Farr 1220 (previous Watkins owned as well as current). Despite this one just goes out and beats them all and ignores the PHRF BS.

Of all the races RTC provides the best opportunity to sail way beyond your ratings and win by making the best decisions. This is why I have been involved in winning or placing in the top three in class or overall in this race in a significant portion of all RTCs from Jamoca onwards, far more than almost anyone else or so many different boats.

Personally, I will be thinking of Don Mierzeski of Bellingham J/35 Shirker, 42-year-old who lost his life last year at RTC. Far Far more important than any of this rating BS.

[Asymptote]

On the contrary - if you read Section T-4 of the 2012 PHRF Bylaws you can read for yourself that PHRF-NW is operating under the national PHRF umbrella as managed by US Sailing. Any member can appeal their rating to the national level after exhausting the due process provided to them at a regional level (ie - PHRF-NW).

Furthermore, US Sailing (who also runs ORR and manages IRC in the US) has stated on numerous occasions that ORR or IRC conversions should not be used to set PHRF ratings. The reason for this is that these mechanisms are relatively imprecise, are highly dependent on the wind matrix in use, and have been type-formed by various designers. Regional ratings that have been set using such conversions will likely not stand when/if appealed at a national level.

For those so inclined, attached is a comparison of the PHRF-NW ORR conversion model when applied to other established classes -- for example, using the PHRF-NW ORR conversion model a Cal-40 would be rated at 178 (locally at 129), a Hobie 33 would be rated at 123 (locally at 96), etc. If you look at the second page of the analysis you can see that the errors get worse with slower boats showing that in addition to be imprecise, the PHRF-NW ORR conversion model is also very biased.

So why should you care? Well the next time your boat gets a rating review (say you had to replace your keel like Voodoo Child) you could be in for a very, very big surprise...

Now, it would be painful as hell to race my J-24 on long course races, but if one simply wanted pickle dishes at discount prices, at a rating of +222 I'd have the closet's full. Well, I might not, but somebody who knows how to sail one sure would.

(It may be purely coincidental, but perhaps with enough 222's on board, the J-24 might be tolerable.)

[pogmothoin]

They banned J24s from offshore racing after they cleaned up in the Irish Sea but had that small flaw of capsazing, much like the Sierra 26.

[n00b]

current long term forecast is for...kite run S down Rosario, and ...reach to the finish Day 1?? Could we possibly have a kite run all the way round?!? RTC. The race that keeps on giving.

[Asymptote]

They banned J24s from offshore racing after they cleaned up in the Irish Sea but had that small flaw of capsazing, much like the Sierra 26.

J-24's don't capsize. They just tip over a ways, fill up and then sink when the air trapped in the bow burps out. Or get driven straight under. At least that's how all the ones I've seen go down did it. (And what other keel boat can you write that sentence about! Six and counting.)

Still be a PHRF-killer (and, admittedly, possibly a crew-killer) at 222.

Back to RTC.

My crew is absolutely ready to go. I couldn't say no to the plaintive cries of "Pick me!!" so we might be a wee bit heavy. Like 14 of us.

[pogmothoin]

Only sink if you dont have the hatch in, dont release the sheets when they broach wildely. With the hatch in and the sheets released they just capsize, you stand on the keep and they come up.

[Asymptote]

I think we may have a wee bit of a difference in opinion on exactly what a "capsize" is.
In your pm to me you say you have capsized a Tripp 47. Very interesting.

How many guys do you need to stand on the keel of the J24 to right it? I never did "capsize" mine.

Capsized in my world means keel to the sky. Broached or "Tippy big-time" is just mast in the water. Wrapping the spinnaker around the masthead gets you extra points. We used to dip the masthead just for fun on J-24s on a calm day. One person hanging off the spreaders is the trick.

Two medium sized peeps on the keel will do pop a J24 back up...slowly, and if the kite stays toward the surface. But you have to make sure the cockpit hatches don't flop open. If they do, you are pretty much hoping your wallet is in your jacket pocket.

[n00b]

I couldn't say no to the plaintive cries of "Pick me!!" so we might be a wee bit heavy. Like 14 of us.

14 peeps on a J/24 seems like you might be overdoing it, PIYA might have to do a safety inspection if you even make it to Roche

[PHRF Whipping Boy]

If anyone has any useful ( meaning well crafted, thoughtful ) input for the BBC, please submit it to me directly, using PM.

Rest assured that handicappers are monitoring all the feedback ( and trying to avoid the vitriol ) and working with the owners, US Sailing, and our own internal resources, to deliver the ratings update that most of the BB owners were relentless in requesting.

As most of you know, I will be sailing on "Neptune's Car" on RTC and will be available to discuss the issue of ratings, in person, at the dock, post race.

[wildangels]

Spinnaker all the way we did it in '89 on Jo heck we launched'em in snakes back then and nobody called them kites. Sunday morning the Republican refused to set the daisy staysail, or was it the tallboy., self inflicted head injury in Roche... BTW
We as PHRF members need to support the big boat owners. They are entitled to be treated within the by-laws of PHRF and have a chance to tell their side of the story. I know if someone changed my rating without following the rules for notification and being present and being part of the process I would fell singled out. We as` a group need to support our members and make sure our hard working volunteers are acting within the guidelines we all agree on. We should have a show of force at the annual meeting.....

[foredeckC22]

This is what Sunday looked like last year. Before the wipeout a half mile from the finish of course...
http://youtu.be/C9wNPIkjyns

So any other predictions from the peanut gallery besides big boat rating bi***ing? Repeat of 2010 with the Saturday Northerly? Blowing like a Highway 99 hooker both days? Or a N100 style drift off? Either way, muffin will be back. And muffin is angry.

[dogger]

This is what Sunday looked like last year. Before the wipeout a half mile from the finish of course...


And muffin is angry.

Did The Muffin get an "adjustment" too?

[wildangels]

How many times can we pump the main per wave?

[Mach 5]

_{If it is gonna blow 30, Muffin owner is nervous..}

[yisitalwaysraining]

my prediction for saturday.....fading southerly in the morning, with northerly filling at noon. then the afternoon westerly comes. to finish us off. upwind,upwind,upwind. if youre not at the dock at 1530, the current will set you back to the bank. but then im a positive thinker

[n00b]

Sunday.

[WHL]

How many times can we pump the main per wave?

Once but there are millions of waves and you can't carry forward any unused pumps to subsequent waves

[HollyGoodhead]

How many times can we pump the main per wave?

Once but there are millions of waves and you can't carry forward any unused pumps to subsequent waves

Only one pump per wave sounds a little boring.

[Darkside]

Dumb question: What is the purpose of pumping the main like that in that kind of wind?

[bizirka]

Dumb question: What is the purpose of pumping the main like that in that kind of wind?

Stolen from a website:
As skipper bears away in a puff or the stern lifts on a wave and the bow goes down, ( the apparent wind shifts forward) try pumping the mainsail and spinnaker sheet together – this will accentuate the apparent wind across the sails and promote / prolong a surf or plane.

[yisitalwaysraining]

i didnt see the wasabi boys pumping the main. they sure are lazy.

[pogmothoin]

Thanks ForedeckC22

Had a good laugh at the video, with it being so pertinent showing the PHRF BB committee member front and center doing the pumping and ignoring the one pump per wave rule. Clearly it is not just while at PHRF NW big boat meetings that the rules dont apply.

[BigGuyWithPinkHat]

Sunday.

Really a handsome dude on the coffee-grinder don't you think?

[pogmothoin]

Hansome dude and great guy to sail with.

[Lat21]

Yeah, we should have put him on the main. He could have pumped it. Instead we had our 140 lb guy. Probably cost us the race.... oh yeah, except that we were DSQed on Saturday. RTFSIs !!!

[Ishtarsdog]

Can we get a quick AYC party plan? What time is dinner? Or are the riff raff not invited this year?

[Dan R.]

Can we get a quick AYC party plan? What time is dinner? Or are the riff raff not invited this year?

From The AYC web page -

Friday Party Plan


Well it has stopped raining that is weird.....Let's look at our calendars for this week. Ahhh Friday night at good ol AYC. The AYC has developed a fine reputation of hosting sailors passing through town on their way to the OIYC 'Round the County Race. Doors open at 1500. The greatest music and slide show featuring all AYC boats from F-18's to Perry 66's and all boats in between starts @1700.
Dinner featuring jambalaya, table decorations, banners this party will have it all. Music starts 8pm and we can have all kinds of fun, hey were even setting up a ping pong table downstairs, cool sailor game, what hppens when you cross musical chairs and ping pong? Come find out! You can really let your hair down cause hey they are going to start the rebuild soon so what could possibly go wrong? Please come welcome sailors from all over and show them what AYC hospitality is all about.

[Lilly]

I'd kinda like to come over and party at the yacht club on West Sound Friday night. Anyone with a boat there that I could catch a ride to the starting area Saturday morning?

[Weatherhelm]

Sunday.

Really a handsome dude on the coffee-grinder don't you think?

Absolutely Hunky!

[pogmothoin]

Lat21

Given your performance on Sunday last year, in optimum Wasabi conditions I think it was more than not having Thumper on the main and your Saturday DSQ.

[Eric]

You can get printable fleet list now on the RTC web site. Get the "Fleet List" tab and click on the "Sortable and Printable" link. The click on the column "Divisions" and it will sort by division and paginate on divisions when you print.

Direct link:

http://roundthecount...p?sort=division

[Lat21]

Lat21

Given your performance on Sunday last year, in optimum Wasabi conditions I think it was more than not having Thumper on the main and your Saturday DSQ.

Ya think?

We stunk it up last year. Hoping to make amends this year. Which boat are you on?

[BigGuyWithPinkHat]

You can get printable fleet list now on the RTC web site. Get the "Fleet List" tab and click on the "Sortable and Printable" link. The click on the column "Divisions" and it will sort by division and paginate on divisions when you print.

Direct link:

http://roundthecount...p?sort=division

Thanks for that link. They printed great. Interesting page on the site the has a Sailing Anarchy post summary sorted from last to first. How did you do that?

[pogmothoin]

Lat 21

Not sure I want to incur the wrath of Bob but Thumper will know.

[alymatt]

So I am firguring it to be a downwind first leg - light, so sprit boats ( extra sail area ) so benefit and then the reach across the bank and finish upwind.

Braveheart - Time bandit - J 109 picks to win today.

Tomorrow totally different - heavy air upwind stuff.

Boy it s tough sitting this one out:(

[WHL]

How many times can we pump the main per wave?

Once but there are millions of waves and you can't carry forward any unused pumps to subsequent waves

Only one pump per wave sounds a little boring.

Holly you old tart, you can hump as many times per wave as you like !!

[alymatt]

Icon looks to have finished just before 1:00pm

[alymatt]

Raven finished about 2:20

[alymatt]

Results are posted - 2 out of 3 right:)

Lots of dnf's.

[boomer]

How about providing a link....

Race results > http://roundthecount...lts/results.php

[Resentful Dawg]

All the classes look great, but have you seen the big boat class? This is going to be epic!

Thats if there is a big boat class after what PHRFNW has done...

Well here we go again... The "handicappers" here in the PNW are clueless, reckless and are destroying fleet racing with their actions. They started this travesty a few years back, with the bendies 36.7 (which destroyed the starting of a class), then allowing rudder changes in a couple of boats without penalties, and all kinds of "allowances" for some older boats. can't just we get them replaced by normal and honest people

[Ishtarsdog]

Another great race is in the books. Dragonfly shreds the fleet, and Martha is up to her old tricks again. (I watched her tack on poor Rumpus once--hilarious battle, that one!)

At least in our class, things were pretty settled after yesterday. Despite great sailing by Elusive and Vitesse, there was no way we were catching Ptolemy or Tantivy. Still, some really good battles out there. Year in, year out this is the best distance racing in the PNW. Thanks to the race committees at both ends who did a fine job this year!

(And a shout out to Ben on Vanadis who almost nailed a perfect start...)

[pogmothoin]

Yet again an Awsome race.

Had a fantastic blast to the finish line keeping in the teens from the small islands to the finish line, passing Jam, Artimas and Marda Gras in the last mile..

Great job Tantivity and great sports, thank you. Owe you a drink.

Perfect start from Rumpus sunday.

25 years and still the best fully crewed race south of the border.

[wildangels]

Shout out to Betsy and her crew! 25 years and counting, solid fun, beautiful place to sail, let's break the 100 boat barrier nexr year!

[Courtney K]

I don't think we could've had better racing conditions. Day one was sunny and beautiful, with only a small lull just after the halfway mark. Great winds. Day two was butt-freaking cold (though I'm sure there are more frigid conditions in racing) with constant wind, and most of the race was upwind. Rain settled in well after racing finished. Great course!

Couple of photos (via instagram)
Day one start: http://instagram.com/p/R70TAJNB_c/
S/V Martha: http://instagram.com/p/R71ABftB_6/

[redmond]

We need to be greatful to fellow sailors like the owners of Martha. We can hardly imagine how much dedication, blood, sweat and tears it takes to keep a boat like that on the water for us to enjoy, even though we only get to look at her from a distance. She is just a beautiful vessel..

[pogmothoin]

Martha is an awsome boat and so beautiful below.

Had the pleasure of visiting with them last year at Roche and the nicest people as well.

[MAGIC2349]

MARTHA is a National historic vessel, 105 years young, owned by the Schooner MARTHA Foundation and as you all see, well-sailed by her Port Townsend based crew and friends. It is a delight to see her moving along and her multi-year rebuilding program has been a community-supported success.If you are interested to learn a bit more about her, check out the website at: www.schoonermartha.org .

We need to be greatful to fellow sailors like the owners of Martha. We can hardly imagine how much dedication, blood, sweat and tears it takes to keep a boat like that on the water for us to enjoy, even though we only get to look at her from a distance. She is just a beautiful vessel..

[PHRF Whipping Boy]

"Thats if there is a big boat class after what PHRFNW has done...
Well here we go again... The "handicappers" here in the PNW are clueless, reckless and are destroying fleet racing with their actions. They started this travesty a few years back, with the bendies 36.7 (which destroyed the starting of a class), then allowing rudder changes in a couple of boats without penalties, and all kinds of "allowances" for some older boats. can't just we get them replaced by normal and honest people"


The implication of the above post is troubling, namely that I am personally not normal or honest. I have been the PHRF-NW handicapper for CYC Seattle for approaching a dozen years, and yes, have made errors which are inevitably correctable, and are corrected. I am not sure this cancels " normal and honest' from my personal descriptors.

To imply that I , or any PHRF- NW volunteer handicapper, is less than " normal or honest " ( in your opinion ) is specious.

Hiding behind anonmyous aliases on forums to call people out like this is even more so.

If you have handicap input that can be used to create enhanced, fair handicaps, please offer them to me, and us as a group.

If you have evidence of dishonesty amongst our ranks, contact your PHRF-NW club director, or the Chief Handicapper. But I do note that hidden Identiy name calling on an internet forum is not productive in terms of achieving the result you appear to desire, which is alteration of the existing BBC handicaps.

To the thoughtful sailors who did review the corrected results in the 14 boat ( biggest ever, as best as I can tell ) big boat fleet, the remarkably close corrected times, and actual fleet positions, are to be noted.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

M

[n00b]

Perfect start from Rumpus sunday.

Yes, Wild Rumpus nailed the start Sun and launched! I'm not sure the line could have been any more pin favored?

[sloansailing]

"Thats if there is a big boat class after what PHRFNW has done...
Well here we go again... The "handicappers" here in the PNW are clueless, reckless and are destroying fleet racing with their actions. They started this travesty a few years back, with the bendies 36.7 (which destroyed the starting of a class), then allowing rudder changes in a couple of boats without penalties, and all kinds of "allowances" for some older boats. can't just we get them replaced by normal and honest people"


The implication of the above post is troubling, namely that I am personally not normal or honest. I have been the PHRF-NW handicapper for CYC Seattle for approaching a dozen years, and yes, have made errors which are inevitably correctable, and are corrected. I am not sure this cancels " normal and honest' from my personal descriptors.

To imply that I , or any PHRF- NW volunteer handicapper, is less than " normal or honest " ( in your opinion ) is specious.

Hiding behind anonmyous aliases on forums to call people out like this is even more so.

If you have handicap input that can be used to create enhanced, fair handicaps, please offer them to me, and us as a group.

If you have evidence of dishonesty amongst our ranks, contact your PHRF-NW club director, or the Chief Handicapper. But I do note that hidden Identiy name calling on an internet forum is not productive in terms of achieving the result you appear to desire, which is alteration of the existing BBC handicaps.

To the thoughtful sailors who did review the corrected results in the 14 boat ( biggest ever, as best as I can tell ) big boat fleet, the remarkably close corrected times, and actual fleet positions, are to be noted.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

M

Matt,

I could not agree more on the anonymity comments. If anyone has something to say, they should be identifying themselves and should stand behind what they say here. My name is right there in my SA user name, and my business is linked in my signature. It is unfortunate that many on this forum seem to want to hide behind their keyboard, call people names, criticize people, yet cannot sign their name to the things they say.

Unfortunately I did not get a chance to talk with you on Saturday after racing. I don't think this thread (RTC) is the place to have the PHRFNW BBC discussion, and my initial comment which sparked so many responses was not intended to hijack the RTC thread. I think it would be a good idea to start a fresh thread about this, TRY to lay out some ground rules that posters need to identify themselves, and TRY as best we can to have an open, public, rational discussion about something many of us feel strongly about. There are a number of things I would appreciate discussing, but this is not the thread for it. SA provides a good place to have a public discussion about this, lets use the tool and try to get something positive out of it.

[sloansailing]

Shout out to Betsy and her crew! 25 years and counting, solid fun, beautiful place to sail, let's break the 100 boat barrier nexr year!

+1. Despite a couple small hiccups (start times and line bias) the organizers and RC did a great job and got off another fantastic race this year.

Is this race losing its reputation for a 50/50 drifter/gearbuster after the last few years? Though slower, this years race was akin to last years in terms of the nearly ideal conditions. Wind all the way around (almost), sun and only a little rain, wind that didn't destroy sails and equipment. It doesn't get much better!

[sloansailing]

New BBC thread:
http://forums.sailin...howtopic=141617

[PHRF Whipping Boy]

Ian,
Thanks. Moving over there.
Regards to all who respect this thoughtful discussion.
M

[Micksails]

Ian,
Thanks. Moving over there.
Regards to all who respect this thoughtful discussion.
M

Hey guys! I'm having trouble accessing the OIYC web site. It's almost like I've been blocked or something. What's up with that?

[Eric]

Ian,
Thanks. Moving over there.
Regards to all who respect this thoughtful discussion.
M

Hey guys! I'm having trouble accessing the OIYC web site. It's almost like I've been blocked or something. What's up with that?

What's your ipaddress Mick?

[Boomberries]

A huge thanks to the organizers and RC for a fantastic weekend of some competitive sailing in a well organized event.
Also, a big shout out to my skipper and crew for a great few days of sailing and fun!

A bunch of pics to share. Most will be on facebook, but there are some photos of boats and crew I'm not familiar with. It's well worth the trip down to do RTC just to see the very beautiful Martha undersail. Lots of boat porn always present in RTC.

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[Boomberries]

Next set of pics:

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[Boomberries]

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[Boomberries]

4'th set of pics:

5'th set:

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[Boomberries]

Last set of pics.
Looking forward to doing RTC again next year. If my gear is dried out by then.
We enjoyed a fantastic sail back to Point Roberts from the finish yesterday.

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[wildangels]

Great year! I'm even all warmed up again! brrrrr... that was pretty sloppy out there for the little guys yesterday!

With love in my heart for a beautiful boat full of nice people and skilled sailors, I think a "Classics" division would be a terrific idea! Get Sir Isaac and some of the other big wooden classics out there who can't be phrf rated and watch them battle it out. Go Martha! And yes, that was really something when they tacked on us... up close and personal with a very big boat!

(this is Steph, not pirated for once!)

[Ballard Sailor]

Another great race is in the books. Dragonfly shreds the fleet, and Martha is up to her old tricks again. (I watched her tack on poor Rumpus once--hilarious battle, that one!)

At least in our class, things were pretty settled after yesterday. Despite great sailing by Elusive and Vitesse, there was no way we were catching Ptolemy or Tantivy. Still, some really good battles out there. Year in, year out this is the best distance racing in the PNW. Thanks to the race committees at both ends who did a fine job this year!

(And a shout out to Ben on Vanadis who almost nailed a perfect start...)

Seconds, just a few more seconds!

Martha rolling over rumpass was fun to watch, glad it wasn't me! But that poor guy that has to sit outside of the lifelines up forward calling the jib taletells while they go to weather, what a lousy job! Fun to see her blow by us and the J111, through our lee of course....

[n00b]

Boomberries, were you sailing on Gem or the CM1200? That pic of Wasabi completing a gybe looks strangely like the time we gybed right on top of the CM1200, but one of your pics is off Gem.

[Je Prefere]

What fun year, only nasty at the end, and going home as usual.
Who were the photo boats? There should be some pretty spectacular pics from Saturday.

[Boomberries]

What fun year, only nasty at the end, and going home as usual.
Who were the photo boats? There should be some pretty spectacular pics from Saturday.

Sean Trew was out there, and I believe Jan Anderson as well. I can't wait to see their photos.