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Screecher upwind in less than 4 knots TWS


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#1 Rapscallion

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 12:47 PM

I'm looking to add sail area to my Gougeon 32 catamaran for really light air. I have a furling working jib (approx 110 sq feet) and a furling drifter,(approx 350 sq feet) and the combination seems to work very well in 4 to 5 tws and up, but in anything below that I have a hard time sailing upwind. I was thinking of getting a huge screecher designed for upwind work, and got a quote for a laminate sail with taffeta.

My question is would a poly screecher be a more versatile sail in the sense that it could be used for upwind and down wind sailing? I'm making the assumption the laminate upwind screecher would be make of a laminate too light for downwind work in anything above 8tws.

#2 PIL007

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:33 PM

Yes one can be used for both depending on the depth in the shape, obviously the flatter the better. The SeaCart 26 does this as do many others but your assumption on thickness of laminate is wrong. Even in 4-5 tws there are big loads on any Screecher / reecher / code zero style sails upwind as oppossed to loads downwind.

#3 Vincent DePillis

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:32 PM

"Yes one can be used for both depending on the depth in the shape, obviously the flatter the better. The SeaCart 26 does this as do many others but your assumption on thickness of laminate is wrong. Even in 4-5 tws there are big loads on any Screecher / reecher / code zero style sails upwind as oppossed to loads downwind."


I have wondered about this for my f31-R, which is a bit underpowered upwind in very light air. What do you think the best fabiric/construction would be? Something like a d4 spectra with no taffeta? (i.e. Lightest possible sail, but with smuch less stretch than any woven)

#4 Rapscallion

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:43 PM

I got quotes for a 3dl and an panel laminate from north. I'm ordering the panel sail.

#5 PIL007

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 04:48 AM

"Yes one can be used for both depending on the depth in the shape, obviously the flatter the better. The SeaCart 26 does this as do many others but your assumption on thickness of laminate is wrong. Even in 4-5 tws there are big loads on any Screecher / reecher / code zero style sails upwind as oppossed to loads downwind."


I have wondered about this for my f31-R, which is a bit underpowered upwind in very light air. What do you think the best fabiric/construction would be? Something like a d4 spectra with no taffeta? (i.e. Lightest possible sail, but with smuch less stretch than any woven)


I'll let current sailmakers answer that as I have not sewn a stitch in anger for 25 years and it depends on many things not to mention the different fabric choices that are currently available to all lofts.......

Why does this small font shit happen sometimes....?

#6 mowgli

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:07 AM

"Yes one can be used for both depending on the depth in the shape, obviously the flatter the better. The SeaCart 26 does this as do many others but your assumption on thickness of laminate is wrong. Even in 4-5 tws there are big loads on any Screecher / reecher / code zero style sails upwind as oppossed to loads downwind."


I have wondered about this for my f31-R, which is a bit underpowered upwind in very light air. What do you think the best fabiric/construction would be? Something like a d4 spectra with no taffeta? (i.e. Lightest possible sail, but with smuch less stretch than any woven)


My screacher is made off this stuff
http://contendersail.../code-zero.html
With light winds you can use it as a upwind sail, and in high winds you can use it as a storm genaker.

#7 Rapscallion

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 06:57 PM


"Yes one can be used for both depending on the depth in the shape, obviously the flatter the better. The SeaCart 26 does this as do many others but your assumption on thickness of laminate is wrong. Even in 4-5 tws there are big loads on any Screecher / reecher / code zero style sails upwind as oppossed to loads downwind."


I have wondered about this for my f31-R, which is a bit underpowered upwind in very light air. What do you think the best fabiric/construction would be? Something like a d4 spectra with no taffeta? (i.e. Lightest possible sail, but with smuch less stretch than any woven)


My screacher is made off this stuff
http://contendersail.../code-zero.html
With light winds you can use it as a upwind sail, and in high winds you can use it as a storm genaker.


Can you post pics? What AWAs do you sail in heavy air downwind with the screacher?

#8 mowgli

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:59 PM



"Yes one can be used for both depending on the depth in the shape, obviously the flatter the better. The SeaCart 26 does this as do many others but your assumption on thickness of laminate is wrong. Even in 4-5 tws there are big loads on any Screecher / reecher / code zero style sails upwind as oppossed to loads downwind."


I have wondered about this for my f31-R, which is a bit underpowered upwind in very light air. What do you think the best fabiric/construction would be? Something like a d4 spectra with no taffeta? (i.e. Lightest possible sail, but with smuch less stretch than any woven)


My screacher is made off this stuff
http://contendersail.../code-zero.html
With light winds you can use it as a upwind sail, and in high winds you can use it as a storm genaker.


Can you post pics? What AWAs do you sail in heavy air downwind with the screacher?


Next weekend I can take some pictures.
I think it is 130 or higher above 16 kns. We did use it in 28 kns as a storm spi down wind.


#9 trispirit

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:30 PM

On Spirit we have three light air reachers. They are awesome sails that create huge apparent winds in light airs. We use them more than the asymmetricals we have as they seem to hold shape better in the lighter airs and are more versatile.

Both are laminated sails and are over 10 years old. They have not been used much and are now starting to need plenty of care but they still work and work well.

Here is some photos and info on the ones we use. The one below is a Doyle Tape Drive sail which uses kevlar for the directional tapes. It's the strongest but also the smallest of the two. We can do around 90 apparent with it, which equates to 65-70 true. I'm sure with a newer sail and better sheeting angles this would be greatly improved. It runs deep to about 130 apparent or 90-110 true and sees a maximum of about 20-22kts apparent wind. When running hot though it sees no more than 15-18kts of apparent breeze.

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The larger of the two below is a pentax lamintated sail that is great for very light airs. It's huge with a foot length longer than the boat so sheeting it in tight is not really an option. We run this sail deeper because of the sheeting angles. it can do around 120 apparent or 90-100 true in about 5-15kts of apparent wind anymore than this and she's getting too powered up. It likes deeper angles and is happy to see 160 apparent in about 20kts of breeze max, which equates to about 120-130 apparent. Obviously the more breeze the deeper we can run this sail.

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These sails are so great we are in the process of having them replaced. Hope this info has helped you a little.

#10 Rapscallion

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:50 AM

Thanks for the pics and the Info! Good looking sails! The North Sailmaker recommended NLS 35 cloth. We are still working out the details. I have to figure out what apparent wind angles the sail should be made for...

#11 Wilpy

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:06 PM

The Screecher should work as a headsail in up to 5 knots then as the excess power is applied then the boat can be sailed lower until the point where you have sufficent power to sail downwind in probably 20+ knots of wind. This will obviously depend on the boat design and available excess power from the sail plan and available bouyancy from the boat..

#12 Merit 25

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:44 PM

I'm using CZ 15 from DP for my "blast reacher". Been very happy with it and is a weapon in the right conditions.
http://www.dimension...Code_Zero_E.pdf

This is for a 25' mono, so obviously consult a sailmaker. The sail is extremely light.

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#13 Strategery

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 01:11 PM

Smyth pioneered use of Screecher upwind, and his are the best in my opinion.

As a rule, if you have a slick crew, you can use them up to ~7 knots efficiently upwind, although we would be using a jib prior to that point.

#14 AClass USA 230

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:17 PM

Smyth pioneered use of Screecher upwind, and his are the best in my opinion.

As a rule, if you have a slick crew, you can use them up to ~7 knots efficiently upwind, although we would be using a jib prior to that point.


Some of Randy's tips include a lot of screacher halyard and main sheet tension to get proper luff tension while sailing upwind in light air. To race upwind successfully with a screacher requires careful setup because if the setup and technique is wrong, a jib will be faster. If you are sailing in shifty wind or a leg/passage that requires a lot of tacking, you will probably be better with a jib as you lose a lot more in a screacher tack than a jib tack. When sailing upwind, you have to carry a soft luff in the screacher to make the VMG work. The screacher when used properly actually allows you to sail higher rather than faster forward. At the last Trimaran Nationals Cliff chose a jib and Don Wigston and I chose screachers for the upwind legs of the last race sailed in 4-5 knots of wind. The performance difference was very slight and while we might have had a tiny height advantage on Cliff, one botched tack would have erased it. Our setup to race with the sail is as follows:

1. Hoist and rig sheets.
2. Hoist mainsail and sail downwind, tension screacher halyard to max.
3. Sailing upwind, our main sheet traveler is usually set to get proper helm and on my Sprint, that is typically about 24" to weather of centerline (right at the edge of the cockpit seat).
4. We pull pretty hard on the mainsheet to get screacher luff tension tight (this rounds the entry making the steering groove more forgiving)
5. Set the screacher leads like any other headsail to get the entire luff to break evenly as you sail upwind.
6. Get into that high groove and enjoy the VMG!
7. We think the limit to this sail for efficient upwind sailing is around 7-8 knots TWS.

Where I really love the screacher is cracking off to a beam to close reach in 6-10 knots TWS and cruising along at 7-11 knots. The monohull guys are impressed when we do that in a club race! We've also had a lot of fun days using the screacher as an RF chute in 12-18 knots of wind. It can be a great sail for the cruising sailor even though I think the new generation of top down furling chutes may also be as good a selection if you have to chose one over the other. We also have a Glaser RF chute that is between our screacher and standard chute in size and for cruising it is our favorite off wind sail.

#15 richardstephens

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:35 PM

The Gougeon 32 is a unique boat, and I would get some advice from other owners. Have you spoken to Greg Bull or Jan Gougeon? I am sure they would help. It has a canting bowsprit, which for sailing upwind with the screacher, is usually placed down over the leeward bow. This allows for good luff tension and a very tight sheeting angle. I am not sure, but I think double-slotted, with both the screacher and jib, works on this boat. Greg has the boat dialled in, and he is very fast in light airs.

#16 Rapscallion

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:19 PM

I have talked to Meade and Greg about it. The sail maker at North talked to Meade as well. Greg has his boat dialed in... No doubt about that. The boat does use a drifter both up and downwind, I was looking for a furling sail to use both upwind and downwind that was larger than the drifter. I race the boat single handed, and furling sails would make things much easier.




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