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Melges 24 weight? How much variance in the hulls?

Megles 24 weight minimums

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#1 USA777

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 05:22 AM

Looking at buying a Melges 24s whose hull is 121 pounds (55 kilos) over the minimum. How much of a difference/variance are there in M24 hull weights? In conventional racing dinghies buyers are very weight concious. They try to get to the minimum weight. Does this transefer to sport keel boats? Are M24's sensitive to weight? This is an early numbered boat (under 200).

#2 Savage 17

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:53 PM

When the boats are built the boats are measured and weighed to make sure they conform with the ISAF Rules. If the boat is under minimum weight then lead is added to the boat in the identified areas per the OD rules. How much weight was added is actually documented along with the location in the boat it was added per the rules.

#3 krash

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:10 PM

not sure I've ever seen one that heavy...

#4 Soley

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:38 PM

Looking at buying a Melges 24s whose hull is 121 pounds (55 kilos) over the minimum. How much of a difference/variance are there in M24 hull weights? In conventional racing dinghies buyers are very weight concious. They try to get to the minimum weight. Does this transefer to sport keel boats? Are M24's sensitive to weight? This is an early numbered boat (under 200).


WHat are you doing with this boat? Local racing or going for big OD regattas. For local fun races I doubt you will notice, a 7% over weight boat. In big OD fleets, she will be a bit of a dog. This could be a good early warning that she is soaked to to the core in certain areas.
It really depends what you want to do with the boat..

#5 Pelle

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:48 PM

I have put a few on the scale and never seen one that heavy. Normal variation seems to be 0-10 kg over the minimum. I would walk away....

#6 Ryley

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:48 PM

I have put a few on the scale and never seen one that heavy. Normal variation seems to be 0-10 kg over the minimum. I would walk away....


..or look in the bilge for the stash of hash.

#7 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:27 PM

23 KG over was the heaviest at the 2008 Worlds. I asked the measurer. Then again, there weren't too many sub-200 boats there, lots of the old ones are a little deck-soggy. What number boat is it?

#8 jokerx9

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:42 PM

Also does anyone know if there had been issues with some of the 300 series? I thought I heard someone say something about them one time. Either way melges 24s are great boats. It be nice to know all the small details tho.

#9 USA777

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 05:52 AM

23 KG over was the heaviest at the 2008 Worlds. I asked the measurer. Then again, there weren't too many sub-200 boats there, lots of the old ones are a little deck-soggy. What number boat is it?

thanks Clean, this is an 80 series mid western boat, new paint, has good rigging and has been well upgraded by the honest concientious current owner. I belkieve he was taken by surprise by the measurement certificate. He has no way of knowing whether or not there has been major glass work. The current owner is unaware of any repairs.

M24's are cored. Is it Divinicell? Today I heard of a solution to drill multiple holes along the bottom and let it drain? Have you heard of that as an option? It was suggested that as much as half of the addiotnal weight might drain out. It sounds like an urban legend...

#10 jokerx9

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:48 PM

I don't think I would drill holes in the bottom. If anything, take it to Zenda and let the melges guys play with it. Also, you should be able to craw and feel around for any loose water.

#11 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 02:00 PM

It would be better to dig around the compression post step and underneath the cockpit to see if there's any water in there long before you'd think about poking holes in the hull. At least if you take some inner skin off and there's nothing there, you can just lay some glass over it rather than dealing with holes in the outside of the hull. Was it wet-sailed?

#12 USA777

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 05:47 AM

It would be better to dig around the compression post step and underneath the cockpit to see if there's any water in there long before you'd think about poking holes in the hull. At least if you take some inner skin off and there's nothing there, you can just lay some glass over it rather than dealing with holes in the outside of the hull. Was it wet-sailed?



Clean,
I asked about wet sailing: he answerws was that it was always dry sailed.

Presumably the boat left the facory at minimum weight. The current owner is an honest person, who took care of the boat since he purcahsed it two years ago. He raced it infrequently and in a low key fashion. He upgraded the boat with standing and ruinning rigign and repainted the boat. He purchased the boat without paying attentiont to the fact that it was 55 kilos overweight on the measurment certificate he sent to me. If he was dishonest he would never have offered and sent the measurement certificate to me. There are really only three possibilities left:
  • It was mis weighed
  • There is substantial water weight somewhere
  • There are substantial repairs to the hull.

He intendeds to personally reweigh the hull. The keel is exactly at weight.

Any other ideas?

#13 fullsail

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:53 PM

What about a himidity tester like the one used by surveyors?

#14 Savage 17

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:38 AM

Paint weighs.... along with primer and filler.....

I would look for the corrector weights and remove them. Then get the boat measured and see where you are at.

#15 jokerx9

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:07 AM

Does a melges 24 have corrector weights?

#16 Pelle

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:47 AM

It can have corrector weights. If so it should be stated on the measurement certificate.

#17 Timmys_Trick_Turkey

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:30 AM

55 kg isnt going to be water in the core. Thats huge. Its equivalent to a second coat of gelcoat over the entire boat or a very resin rich layup caused by delays between applying layers, or a resin mix that was too hot, or thick (old) resin. Or someone has put a couple of extra layers of flowcoat on it. Walk away.

#18 kmccabe

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:51 PM

Looking at buying a Melges 24s whose hull is 121 pounds (55 kilos) over the minimum. How much of a difference/variance are there in M24 hull weights? In conventional racing dinghies buyers are very weight concious. They try to get to the minimum weight. Does this transefer to sport keel boats? Are M24's sensitive to weight? This is an early numbered boat (under 200).


get a Tempest.

#19 Jambalaya

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:38 PM

Yes the boat is very sensitive to weight of the boat and of the crew.

If the boat is cheap and you are happy doing local/lower key events then don't worry about it.

FYI I was advised not to turn up to an event (happened to be the Worlds) more than 10kg below crew weight, we ended up 35kg below and were hopelessly uncompetitive trying to hold a lane upwind in anything except the two light air races. The boat then did Key West with a crew which fasted for the weigh-in, they had a number of mid pack finishes.

#20 n00b

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:29 AM

I would believe the cert, but also if the boat is 55kg over it wont have corrector weights (or shouldnt) as they are added only to bring an under-hull up to min weight. Ive only measured one boat that was over min weight with no correctors, and it was quite an old hull. After hull 350 or so, everything became very standardized on the boat and there seems to be little variance in weight, butbthe newer hulls are of course stiffer.

If you are already a top quality 1D sailor the 55kg will make a large difference, however if you are just getting into the boat a poor start, poor sails, poor roundings, etc will cost you far more in this class than a little extra hull weight.

#21 M24_Brinksmanship

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:10 PM

Just $0.02 - I have hull #21 and It weighed in Perfectly at the '08 worlds. I have sailed it lightly since then - but ti would venture to guess a few things about weight gain :
1. I would be concerned if the hull had been painted ... this will add weight - esp. if done several times.
2. Water can come in through ALL ports in the hull - if you get the boat - strip deck stanchions & deck hardware & look to old drill holes in the deck for water, clean out and rebed. (I did this on #21)
3. Inspect the Transom - is there a rear access port - if not - put one in - the transom can fail around the gudgeons and water may ingress there - grind - cut and rebuild - necessary on the older hulls anyway as this is a structural failure point. It also may have been reinforced - inspect to see if something "too heavy" may have been used to reinforce there.

Hope that helps - a bit

#22 GnD

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:57 PM

if it an older boat water can find its way between the false floor in the cabin. Our old boat got some water there and gained a bunch of weight. We had a couple of holes put in there to pump the water out. I forget the number of the hulls with the false floor. earlier and later boats all dropped this pan out. It should be in the 60 to 80 numbers.

Also check for water in the t frame area. We had this debound and water get into this area. dried it out. tabbed it and it was as good as new.

as far other things.
1. check to see how many layers of nonskid have been painted on your boat.
2. check to see if the hull has been repainted. it might be a little thick!
3. Pull the weights: Our old boat was a weight with no weights. the new boat carries a bunches
4. check the water around the keel HDPE. when we rebuilt the delrins on old boats found some water came in through there. grind out the old screw holes, There can be a bunch of holes in the boat from people putting new delrins in.

good luck and go sailing




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