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The Box Boat

new 8.5m one design cat

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#1 auscat

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:08 PM

http://www.boxboat.com.au/

Looks like an interesting concept can't wait to see them on the water.

#2 eric e

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:52 PM

looks great



kind of a pity they didn't try make the hulls 8.5mtr rule compliant with a basic berth and some headroom

#3 Cavandish

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:12 PM

lemme see if i have this right.

28' foot cat sold as a cnc cut foam kit, strict one design that the builder gets to build themselves covering the provided foam sections with epoxy-carbon fiber. Then purchase a class rig, fit out and race. I have a feeling "cheap" will be only relative, but in concept should save a good bit. 100 hours? that is seriously FAST and am having trouble believing it.

Sounds pretty cool, convincing people to purchase boat such as this will be harder. Also likely only to be possible for those lucky enough to have wives that sail, since even detuned, that my friend looks to be a pure race machine.

I really should direct this to fix it anarchy, but how difficult is CF to work with?

#4 eric e

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:52 PM

solid foam core, that would explain the lack of hatches :mellow:

#5 PatrickDW

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 12:17 AM

Well, I don´t see that it will be so difficult to sell it, see the I550 groups, they can do it by plan, and by kits also, and there is a lots of sets now in the world. I hope this will be a success if sailing tests, videos and characteristics of the boat are convincing.

#6 auscat

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 02:17 AM

There was a fair bit of talk about this boat at Airlie race week with a lot of interest shown.Basically glue the foam blocks together and glass.Fairing should be minimal.Bolt on all the bits and away you go.Labour being the big killer in most boats with this system just about anyone should be able to have a go.

#7 dave202

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 04:17 AM

Sounds like a good upgrade for beach cat sailors. Any clues on kit price yet?

#8 eliboat

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 05:04 AM

All I see are some pretty bad renderings and a striking lack of details on the website. All of the photos are of the aforementioned renderings, and there is a video just mentioning foam and epoxy and minimal fairing.... Working with composites can be fun, rewarding, and sometimes quick, but expecting it to go quickly without tooling is pie in the sky, at least if you want things to come out looking good. I am a lot more intrested to see some more concrete details.

Cavendish, working with cf isn't necessarily hard, however doing things right takes more time than you think, and it's never cheap.

#9 msouth

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 08:38 AM

A looker , but : no foils, no place to live in a 8.5 m wessel - only way out is a very low price.

#10 oomummado

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:08 AM

Will need the OMR rule to change if they are to be eligible. From what I know solid hulls are not allowed. Probably quite a manageable issue but I can see the debate starting about what can race in the OMR fleets. What's to stop you OMR ing a Tornado etc. I guess the idea is to be a one design.

#11 auscat

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:17 AM

Will need the OMR rule to change if they are to be eligible. From what I know solid hulls are not allowed. Probably quite a manageable issue but I can see the debate starting about what can race in the OMR fleets. What's to stop you OMR ing a Tornado etc. I guess the idea is to be a one design.


Nothing to stop you getting an OMR for anything as long as it meets the safety cat of the event.Motor,lights,radio etc may not be that easy ,or fast for a tornado.

#12 auscat

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:25 AM

Will need the OMR rule to change if they are to be eligible. From what I know solid hulls are not allowed. Probably quite a manageable issue but I can see the debate starting about what can race in the OMR fleets. What's to stop you OMR ing a Tornado etc. I guess the idea is to be a one design.


Just reread the preamble and don't see the bit about solid hulls.Can you give us some direction?

#13 eric e

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:54 AM

it seems they will sell you large cnc machined foam blocks

that you glue together and then wrap in carbon and resin

it's not exactly spelled out but otherwise how could they offer a kit boat that anyone can build in only 100hrs?

- 100 man hours build time (est)
- 300kg total boat weight, 300kg crew weight
- Governed by class rules to keep costs down and the emphasis on sailing not spending.
- CNC cut foam ensures accurate reproduction and the hull sections means cost effective national and international shipping of kit sets. It also mean anyone is skilled enough to build one


it's interesting that they also appear to show a strip plant woody version

#14 Craigj

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 12:46 PM

Sounds like a good upgrade for beach cat sailors. Any clues on kit price yet?

From Box Boat's web page; "The platform kits start at $30,000 Aus (+GST for Aus customers) for the build at home customers and we will also offer partially finished (pre paint) and finished kits with Harken deck gear installed. The platform kits include everything to construct the yachts, foils, beams and bow poles, basically everything platform related. Mast and boom packages will be available (pricing to be confirmed) both in kit set or finished, SailRacing - Box Boat clothing and road trailers will also be sold right here!"

#15 diggler

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 08:58 PM

How does the structure work? With no inner skin you are relying on the compressive modulus of the foam core for panel stiffness, and the entire hull is one big panel...


#16 Ezifold

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:40 PM

How does the structure work? With no inner skin you are relying on the compressive modulus of the foam core for panel stiffness, and the entire hull is one big panel...

Adding experience and technical design knowledge to the mix is David Lyons, a well respected structural engineer and yacht designer who has done all the structural engineering to ensure the boat can handle the dynamic loads seen when sailing in a sea way and the verity of conditions expected. David has been pivotal in insuring the yachts are designed with the all important balance of being light yet strong.
David Lyons should need no introduction, they are not armchair designer/builder/developers.

#17 diggler

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 05:47 AM

I was not questioning the structural integrity of the design, I was asking for information about the fundamental principles upon which it is based because it seems to me that they will be at least a little different from those behind conventional thin sandwich panels.

#18 mowgli

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:23 AM

I was not questioning the structural integrity of the design, I was asking for information about the fundamental principles upon which it is based because it seems to me that they will be at least a little different from those behind conventional thin sandwich panels.


Windsurf boards are made the same only a bit smaller but it works ok.

#19 bfp

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:39 AM


Will need the OMR rule to change if they are to be eligible. From what I know solid hulls are not allowed. Probably quite a manageable issue but I can see the debate starting about what can race in the OMR fleets. What's to stop you OMR ing a Tornado etc. I guess the idea is to be a one design.


Just reread the preamble and don't see the bit about solid hulls.Can you give us some direction?



No bunks etc for Cat 5 safety regs would rule it out of most races

#20 eric e

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:01 AM

you are basically talking an egg shell

but egg shells are very strong for their thickness

i find the inclusion of the woody version interesting as that would mean a shell of at least 10mm thick

much thicker than just carbon over foam

and as a single layer of carbon over foam, i would have thought it would need to be more than twice the thickness of the 2 skins on a normal foam sandwich

the layup details and pics should be coming soon

if they are going to come at all

#21 Peter Hackett

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:31 AM

Agree no bunks big issue for all categories of event.
Big prob to me is the short life of any solid boats. Even well built sailboards get an eventual pinhole, and after that happens the (catamaran) boat will need to be weighed every few months so the rating reflects the increase in weight. It WILL happen.
What if you want to put a fitting where nobody else did? Excavation?
I suppose the old soggy boats could always be whittled away down to little boats.

#22 vmg

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:17 AM

The foam in those pics is not structural foam, so the skins are going to be pretty thick.

Can anyone here glass, fill, fair and paint 2/ 8.5m hulls in 100 hours? Let alone do the deck gear and sort the rig!

#23 msouth

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:36 AM

The platform kits start at $30,000 Aus = 25 000 Euro bucks = 1 Nacra F20 Carbon > give it up !

resale value - do not even compaire..

/ Gunnar

#24 auscat

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:46 PM

Attached File  IMG_0862.jpg   7.8K   136 downloads

looks like things are comming along.Attached File  IMG_0862.jpg   7.8K   136 downloads

#25 bush sailer

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:46 PM

Good concept.
It does not apear to have any rocker. How will that work?

#26 eric e

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:36 PM

The, queensland, owner of AUS 101 already has an impressive carbon catamaran in his yacht stable and is extremely enthusiastic about sailing these performance multi hulls. We warmly welcome him to the Box Boat family.

this other carbon cat, would it be the nacra 36?

http://www.boxboat.com.au/_blog/New_Builds

#27 shaneo

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:56 AM

At the moment most people are jumping to conclusions. I still have some reservations and a lot of questions.
I hope it is all it is expected to be and I like to see someone go out on the limb to create something different or away from the norm (out of the box)
Good luck you blocks and I look forward to the up dates .

#28 Samin

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:13 AM

main issues I can see are the fact that when I built my boat, building the hulls was the cheap and easy part... The expensive parts were the rig, sails, foils, deck gear, tramps, safety gear etc, etc, the time consuming part was faring and painting...

100 hours.... yea right!

The other problem is that it wont sell in NZ as its not allowed to race in the 8.5box class (bit weird calling it an box 8.5 I think) and would be too slow to race in our open fleet.

Anyway good on them for giving it a go and hopefully it works out. the more multihulls out there the better!

#29 Cutter

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:20 AM

Out at the shed this pm, looking way cool, can't wait to get my hands on the new weapon of choice.

#30 Cutter

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:56 PM

Out at the shed again yesterday, saw laminated hull, with beams in place and deck layout tacked on, looks very good with some very neat engineering solutions. Obviously a lot of thought gone into those solutions. Looking forward to getting mine and getting it out....

#31 EASY

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:30 AM

Check out the progress. One hull assembled and laminated in under 10 hours.


http://www.boxboat.com.au/_blog/New_Builds/post/Hull_no1_laminated!!!/#.UHYg3LTPKYc

#32 EASY

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:31 PM

Posted Image
Posted Image

#33 eric e

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:38 AM

looking good

for fixing hardware to the hulls

are alloy? plates pre-positioned on the foam before the carbon is laid?

#34 shaneo

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:22 AM



Will need the OMR rule to change if they are to be eligible. From what I know solid hulls are not allowed. Probably quite a manageable issue but I can see the debate starting about what can race in the OMR fleets. What's to stop you OMR ing a Tornado etc. I guess the idea is to be a one design.


Just reread the preamble and don't see the bit about solid hulls.Can you give us some direction?



No bunks etc for Cat 5 safety regs would rule it out of most races


Can't see anything about bunks in cat 5 safety
http://www.rqys.com..../cat 5 2009.pdf

#35 eric e

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:51 AM

if the 10mtr carbon katipo cat costs $US260,000 ready to race

(a bit less for the nacra 36R and toro34 - C$130,000)

there is certainly some space for an 8.5mtr kit cat that starts with a A$30,000 platform

#36 shaneo

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:38 AM

if the 10mtr carbon katipo cat costs $US260,000 ready to race

(a bit less for the nacra 36R and toro34 - C$130,000)

there is certainly some space for an 8.5mtr kit cat that starts with a A$30,000 platform


Buy the time it is on the water and trailer it would cost A$80,000 and you still have to build it yourself.
Still a good price but just putting it in perspective.

#37 Try Flying

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:19 PM

Can't see anything about bunks in cat 5 safety
http://www.rqys.com..../cat 5 2009.pdf



Shaneo, your looking at the audit sheet which lists all the hardware needed to comply, you'd need to look at the whole rule in the blue book to see all the other stuff. Don't have it handy but am pretty sure it states something along the lines of shelter for the crew and cooking/toilet facilities. These can be pretty rudimetary but do usually entail a cabin of some sort.

Cheers

#38 EASY

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:00 PM

Cat 4 is the first category that requires accommodation for a percentage of the crew and there is nothing else limiting the Box8.5 from complying with cat 5. You will find many day sailing classes race under cat 5 and have no accommodation, Etchells Worlds when offshore in Sydney for example.

Eric, there are alloy backing plates laminated to the bulkheads for winches and rudders and to clarify the earlier comments there is no wood option for hull skins, it was just a render for fun.

There will be a finished yacht option around 80k built in the factory with trailer. The online shop will be going live this week and will have the prices for three different stages of build.

#39 Speng

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:03 PM

- "Not much fairing required" - yeah right.
- If it only takes 100 hours to finish why not just buy complete hulls for the time/cost of putting together the build location, obtaining the carbon and epoxy, tools etc I'd rather pay them to do it and they can ship multiple finished hulls in a container as they can pieces of foam.
- No interior.
- Carbon fiber and epoxy over non structural foam, really?
- You could probably score a much more finished F-85R platform kit from one of Farrier's builders for not much more than that and have far better resale.

#40 Cavandish

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:31 PM

Maybe i am the only one, doubtful, but why would building a boat the same way surfboards are constructed, not work?

From one of the pictures they appear to be using eps? .... i hope not because one crack, not immediately fixed, will lead to a total failure. Expanded polystyrene works as a siphon pulling water in.

Has anyone tried this before? Seems like an easier more flexible way to get shapes than torturing ply into shape, have to wonder what kind of weight penalty would be encountered.

The only one i can think of is a really poor example, the snark, but for all the wrongness ( ABS plastic) they are really, really light. (60lbs all up?)

#41 Speng

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:51 PM

And how many broken surfboards have you seen? The concept is is a bit bass-ackwards. Wrap crap nonstructural foam with carbon so it ends up heavy and/or weak. The claim that wrapping the hulls in carbon and then fairing will take the time they say is laughable since on what is essentially a male mold you'll take that long fairing. Also the cost is whack. By the time you buy their CNC foam, the glassing materials you could've gotten a better deal buying factory molded hulls.

#42 shaneo

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:19 AM

And how many broken surfboards have you seen? The concept is is a bit bass-ackwards. Wrap crap nonstructural foam with carbon so it ends up heavy and/or weak. The claim that wrapping the hulls in carbon and then fairing will take the time they say is laughable since on what is essentially a male mold you'll take that long fairing. Also the cost is whack. By the time you buy their CNC foam, the glassing materials you could've gotten a better deal buying factory molded hulls.


I'm just waiting to see where they go and how. I've been told lots of things ,but I don't believe all I'm told.
I've been told they or making it out of styrene foam , if this is the same density of normal styrene as we know it it will delaminate very very quickly.
I've been told they are only putting 300gram carbon over it . This will break in many places.
Ive been told a kit will cost 60k and 100 hour to build.I could not only fair and paint it for that and thats on a good day.
Ive been told the factor will supply a boat for 80k ,thats $200 per hour very step.
I don't think they could be that silly so I'm hoping Judson has come up with something that I'm looking forward to seeing.
Buy the way surf boards are made out of polyurethane foam with a much greater density that you can control and vary for different purposes. The greater the density the less shear or delamination is possible.

#43 Y-Bar

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:17 PM

These days there are various combinations of surfboard cores and laminates.
Some are polyurethane foam,some are honeycomb, carbon is used as laminates and on rails for strength and flex.
My Matavish is polystyrene with epoxy over Thai produced I am embarressed to say however It is much lighter, easier to paddle and faster than the older polyurethane ones. Regardless both type of foams on the majority of surfboards have plywood stringers common to help strengthen, allow for some flex reduce the chance of breaking in half. I am supprised how well the MacT has stood up considering the caneing it has copped no delamination so far but this design concept on a surf board seems to be ok but on a cat is yet to be proven.
Does anyone know if this design has any stringers or does it just rely on the carbon layup and its bond to the foam for strength.
It it a double bias, any unis in the mix?.

Anyhow good luck guys I hope it is a rocket ship.
Are the two boats going to be ready for Wangi as reported in the regatta news section of the site?.

#44 janj70

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:19 PM

Out at the shed this pm, looking way cool, can't wait to get my hands on the new weapon of choice.


How is the weapon of choice going? Are they going to be ready to do battle at the nationals? Must be close now.

#45 Cutter

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:31 PM


Out at the shed this pm, looking way cool, can't wait to get my hands on the new weapon of choice.


How is the weapon of choice going? Are they going to be ready to do battle at the nationals? Must be close now.


Looking sweet, foils stiff as and the right weight, maybe one boat at the Nationals be touch and go, waiting for rigs from NZ

#46 huey 2

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:10 AM

the melbourne to osaka boat Technovator designed by takai was built as a long block of foam hollowed through the center for living space; the outside to inside thickness varied in thickness varied from inches to feet . Then the lot was carbon layup inside and out. This boat has done many thousands of miles at speed! best of luck with your project!

#47 Robnacra

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:08 AM

Anymore pics?

#48 jordan11

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:44 AM

Yes Technovator....became TL Systems Thunder in Auckland...many fast miles. A strong light boat but the weakness was the core providing little impact resistance.....any dropped winch handle or impact on the waterline with debris would result in a permanent dent. A small layer of high density foam over the core could have solved many issues. I believe the whole boat was CNC milled after the blocks of foam were glued together, the outer skin laminated over, and then workers hollowed the inside to whatever thickness was required at various places, then when finished the inside skin laminated. If you require no interior then an easy, quick solution to a hull build, but only if you can get that layer of higher density foam under the outer skin.

#49 Shanebell

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:24 AM

Re Thunder/ Technovator - clearly you guys no nothing about the boats build.
"I believe the whole boat was CNC milled after the blocks of foam were glued together, the outer skin laminated over, and then workers hollowed the inside to whatever thickness was required at various places, then when finished the inside skin laminated."

Attached pic show actual build pics - 1986 - Foam is really just floatation btwn layers inserted btwn Carbon Frames - - they prob got the high density foam against the outer skin a tad to light - for her day & even today an extremely light boat.


Cheers - ShaneAttached File  Thund Build.pdf   199.23K   210 downloads

#50 jordan11

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:22 AM

Humble apologies Shane. I was just going off what a crew member from NZ had told me....never let the truth get in the way of a good story!!!!!
I agree a very light and fast boat. I remember the end of an Auckland to Tauranga race when the owner was away overseas and his son and young mates did the race and beat the pants off everything but the top multis....but they were very wet....and drunk afterwards!!!

#51 Samin

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:41 PM

Looking sweet, foils stiff as and the right weight, maybe one boat at the Nationals be touch and go, waiting for rigs from NZ


http://www.boxboat.com.au/yacht-concept#.ULVA3YcUmSo
"
  • 100 man hours build time (est)
  • - 350kg boat weight, 300kg crew weight

are they going to update this now one boat has been half finished or they still shooting for these numbers?

#52 EASY

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:33 PM


Looking sweet, foils stiff as and the right weight, maybe one boat at the Nationals be touch and go, waiting for rigs from NZ


http://www.boxboat.c...pt#.ULVA3YcUmSo
"
  • 100 man hours build time (est)
  • - 350kg boat weight, 300kg crew weight
are they going to update this now one boat has been half finished or they still shooting for these numbers?


Sam, the weight is defiantly still the number we are heading for but as we wait for masts, booms, rigging ect from NZ we wont know the result until they arrive. The first set of hulls are now top coated and ready for fit out. We assembled the hulls and laminated them in well under 30hours (learning as we went) and the painter has gone slightly over his target of 60hrs. Its very realistic the boats can be built within the hours assigned as the process is so simple and will be outlined in the online videos for the home builders.

Cheers

#53 EASY

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:34 AM

Posted Image

#54 basildog

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:31 AM

Why not at this stage flop off a couple of molds and build from now conventionally. No fairing/accommodation/ lighter/ and most importantly no stigma about oddball.

#55 rob d

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:41 AM

I'm sorry, but I don't care what new fandangled build method you use-that launch dolly is not big enough!

#56 Rawhide

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:34 AM

Posted Image

If the price is still right I am in, looks awesome

#57 Mojounwin

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:38 AM

From the photo it looks like they've done an amazing fairing job..
Looking forward to seeing it in the water.

Cheers
Mojo

#58 EASY

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:23 AM

Plenty more at http://www.boxboat.com.au/news



Posted Image

#59 jayson

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

lookin good

you might want to check your finished yacht price page

the big print says $30,000

the little print says $82,500

http://www.boxboat.com.au/shop-1/yacht-packages/stage-4-platform-finished-yacht#.UOk_-m-Tx9U


If you read it $30,000 is for the deposit ...

#60 eric e

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

my bad

deleted

hidden in the fine print...

Attached Files



#61 auscat

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:34 AM

Great looking boat.How are you going rating wise?There seems to be a bit of a problem with this style boat from some people.
If you can make safety regs your in,in my books.
Can you make cat 5?
Love to see the boat in Airlie in August.

#62 Dorado

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:35 AM

Oh fer . . .

They put the hulls on upside down ! :o

#63 samc99us

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:19 AM

So the rig, rigging and deck hardware costs $40K (difference b/n packages 3 and 4)? Does that seem right? No one has mentioned sails...

The price leap from a 18-20' beach cat to a 25-30' racer with similar performance seems a bit steep....it looks like a lot of that cost is in the rig?

#64 jetboy

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:58 AM

So the rig, rigging and deck hardware costs $40K (difference b/n packages 3 and 4)? Does that seem right? No one has mentioned sails...

The price leap from a 18-20' beach cat to a 25-30' racer with similar performance seems a bit steep....it looks like a lot of that cost is in the rig?


I would guess the biggest part of the cost is in low production numbers. A rig isn't expensive to build if you can order 10,000 of them. Its expensive if you are buying 1 at a time.

I think this boat manufacturing method could be a great way for home builders to get boats finished quickly if the structure is sound. And costs could go down considerably. There are lots of 5 axis cncs out there that could carve a cat hull.

#65 auscat

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:58 AM

Attached File  16751_288535451269298_2095188312_n.jpg   92.28K   123 downloads

Seems its on the water.Anyone know more?

#66 Cutter

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:10 PM

http://www.boxboat.c...w_sailing_days/

Im in Paris, brr very cold looking forward to going for a fang when i get home...... hopefully mine is not too far away......biggsy, Matty?

#67 Robnacra

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:49 AM

Be interesting to see how it lines up.

#68 david r

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:15 PM

This is a curious boat indeed. when we make eps boards we always vacuum bag corecell over the eps. if you glass or carbon straight over the eps, the resin soaks into the foam and the board gets too heavy. if you are real careful, one layer of carbon over eps comes out pretty light though. also the density of the eps is critical. 1 pound foam makes a light board, but it falls apart fast. 2 pound foam makes a strong board, but it is a little heavy. 1.2 pound is used most often.
Then you have the problem of a hole in the board causing it to take on water. you can get the water out and repair it, but in the long run most styro boards end up in the dumpster eventually.
putting alloy near carbon is always a bad idea. theoretically the alloy could be isolated from the carbon, but adding salt water to the equation makes that difficult over time.

recently i made a 9'8" solid styro cat. it came out pretty light and strong, but i did corcell and vac lammed the skins over that. extra corecell and carbon was inlaid at the stress points with carbon plates inlaid in that for the stays to connect to.
bolting into sytro is also a technical challenge. the box boat guys mention bulkheads, but how to bolt into a thin bulkhead surrounded by styro can be tricky. one little water leak and the hull is dumpster bound.
we used to say eps stands for -every pinhole sucks- and certainly a board can be ruined from 1 pinhole leaking. if you have ever faired a glass job and painted it you will know that pinholes are a challenge to get rid of.
you have to give them credit for solving all the problems that would come up from building solid styro hulls of that size. there won't be many people that could take on a glass job of that size. just glassing a surfboard well is more than most people can do.

#69 EASY

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:52 AM

Posted Image

#70 shaneo

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:44 AM

Well done boys great to see it on the water
Get it rated !! can't wait to see the numbers
Will we see see it at Airlie Nationals

#71 sk8

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:00 AM

Seems like theres been some quality thinking going on at box boat, theyre going with hollow female moulded hulls now instead of 'surfboard' style construction
http://www.boxboat.c...w/#.UT7QzxxTBBM

#72 shaneo

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:39 AM

Interesting they didn't post this themselves !

#73 Samin

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:35 AM

Seems like theres been some quality thinking going on at box boat, theyre going with hollow female moulded hulls now instead of 'surfboard' style construction
http://www.boxboat.c...w/#.UT7QzxxTBBM


classic how so many people said it wont work and it didnt!

#74 Speng

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 03:18 PM

What, did it break? Or did too many people call bullshit?

#75 juniordave nz

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:37 PM

Be interesting to see what the price of a set of hulls is now

#76 EASY

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:27 PM

Hey guys,

The reason we don't post our news ect here is that the forum is for open discussion and we don't feel like frequent posting allows honest conversation without us jumping in to correct things or try and promote our product. Just to clarify, the foam boat did not break, in fact it blew us away with how well it performed and how easy the process was to put a boat together. As with many projects we saw an opportunity to refine the process, making it even easier and we decided to take it. The original concept DID work and the kit sets are the same price and stages as the foam sets.

Aside from all that we plan to have at least one of our boats at the Bay to Bay in eightish weeks and then Airlie Beach for the nationals. We are trying to get to Sydney in the next month and then Melbourne so if anyone would like to come for a sail or know more let me know. We will update when we have concrete dates.

Cheers,
Matt

p.s. We had bets who would be the first to jump on the told you so wagon! Thanks Sam Tucker, you won me five bucks!

#77 Samin

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:02 AM

Hey guys,

The reason we don't post our news ect here is that the forum is for open discussion and we don't feel like frequent posting allows honest conversation without us jumping in to correct things or try and promote our product. Just to clarify, the foam boat did not break, in fact it blew us away with how well it performed and how easy the process was to put a boat together. As with many projects we saw an opportunity to refine the process, making it even easier and we decided to take it. The original concept DID work and the kit sets are the same price and stages as the foam sets.

Aside from all that we plan to have at least one of our boats at the Bay to Bay in eightish weeks and then Airlie Beach for the nationals. We are trying to get to Sydney in the next month and then Melbourne so if anyone would like to come for a sail or know more let me know. We will update when we have concrete dates.

Cheers,
Matt

p.s. We had bets who would be the first to jump on the told you so wagon! Thanks Sam Tucker, you won me five bucks!


classic, Matty, Funny thing is I never said it wouldnt work (i.e solid foam core being a bad idea), I just thought your build time estimates were way out (which im guessing they were?)

boat looks good, im guessing boat one will be the plug? good luck with phase two of the project

#78 Samin

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:11 AM

Posted Image


Boat looks good.

Disappointing you had to copy then NZ 8.5 class logo tho, I thought you were a bit more original than that!

#79 jetboy

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:13 PM

I can see a lot of merit in the idea of cnc cut solid core boats. Foam is easy to cut, and there are lots of 5 axis cnc foam cutting machines out there that can cut a core cheaply if the construction method is validated.

One of the great things about a solid core is that you could put internal structure in very easily. For example you could cut the foam longitudinally and put a layer of FRP between the two halves. You can add bulkheads of FRP anywhere by simply cutting the base foam at a point and putting a GRP layer in. For a home builder this could make building times very quick and relatively simple as compared to other more common building methods. With the right foam, it could also be a quick low cost method to make a hull from foam core and thermoformed plastic. It wouldn't be as light as full carbon/aramid honeycomb construction, but for a boat for the masses, it could go a long way toward reducing manufacturing labor costs.

#80 MultiMacGreg

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:00 PM

I can see a lot of merit in the idea of cnc cut solid core boats. Foam is easy to cut, and there are lots of 5 axis cnc foam cutting machines out there that can cut a core cheaply if the construction method is validated.

One of the great things about a solid core is that you could put internal structure in very easily. For example you could cut the foam longitudinally and put a layer of FRP between the two halves. You can add bulkheads of FRP anywhere by simply cutting the base foam at a point and putting a GRP layer in. For a home builder this could make building times very quick and relatively simple as compared to other more common building methods. With the right foam, it could also be a quick low cost method to make a hull from foam core and thermoformed plastic. It wouldn't be as light as full carbon/aramid honeycomb construction, but for a boat for the masses, it could go a long way toward reducing manufacturing labor costs.


This is what AdventureTri is trying to do with his crowd sourced project and the box boat guys are exploring hull production economics for him!

#81 FleetlessInChicago

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:52 PM

Cool boat. If you can't afford the Box Boat pricetag, here is another option I stumbled upon today:

Source: http://www.hobiecat....c2ead3f0#p90238

Posted Image

#82 eric e

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:45 AM

shoulda used tanalised...

#83 EASY

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:14 PM

We finally managed to string a couple of days sailing together with some cameras rolling. Since sailing last we have stiffened the under boat rigging platform and added diamonds to the rig.

check it out here sea tirlas video. Sorry for the filming and editing!

Working hard now to have the first two hollow boats at the Bay to Bay in Queensland.

#84 Cutter

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 03:22 AM



Had a blast sailing Saturday.....Can't wait for Black Betty to turn up..... oh and the rib.....If you haven't got one ordered you going to wish you had when you see and feel the fun factor in playing with these... can't wait for some racing with some 40knot plus closing speeds.....






#85 windwhacker

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 10:20 PM

How do you plan on getting one of these things out of a marina...... No provision for an outboard?
Not many people can afford one of these and a rib / driver just to shadow them all day.
Why wouldnt you just buy an F18 and go and race 50 boats at a fraction of the cost, much easier handling, way cheaper running costs and at the same speed.
Also probably a good idea to actually test the thing in some proper wind and waves instead of light air and flat water.

#86 Peter Hackett

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 05:41 AM

Will need motor and usual safety list for B2B nomination to be accepted.

#87 Peter Hackett

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:52 AM

And the Caper Cat bubble for the mast tip after capsizing in 10 knots on the lake? Edited out?

#88 rob d

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:30 AM

A sportsboat this size would be similar in cost, have similar accommodation, similar windage, weigh heaps more, have 50% more crew and some a 3.5hp outboard. A 6hp should well and truly cover the blue book outline for auxiliary power and should not be too hard to fit to the rear. If the new hollow hulls have enough storage for a decent tent (That will fit on the tramp) and crew's gear to spend a few days around the bay I think it is an absolute winner. An F18 that mum lets you spend more on because you can take the family for a weekend- a good sales pitch-feel free to use it if you haven't already thought of it.

#89 windwhacker

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:59 AM

A sportsboat this size would be similar in cost, have similar accommodation, similar windage, weigh heaps more, have 50% more crew and some a 3.5hp outboard. A 6hp should well and truly cover the blue book outline for auxiliary power and should not be too hard to fit to the rear. If the new hollow hulls have enough storage for a decent tent (That will fit on the tramp) and crew's gear to spend a few days around the bay I think it is an absolute winner. An F18 that mum lets you spend more on because you can take the family for a weekend- a good sales pitch-feel free to use it if you haven't already thought of it.


The comparison to a sportsboat is not accurate in reality. Firstly - you can short tack a sportsboat out of a harbour and they are way easier to sail in comparison. Box Boat - no chance. If you put the same people from most sportsboats into a boat like this - they will be upside down and inside out in no time. I get the gist of the box boat - but it just seems that nothing has really been thought through properly. The boat milled out of foam - that now does not work (surprise surprise) should have been done without all the talk it up cup and advertising and tested in relative privacy to get the concept refined. It just looks like a complete amateur show from the beginning. All talk and no real evidence of anything done to a high level. What does it sail like in 20 knots and some waves? The F-22 is around the same money............ Cannot see why you would not just buy an off the beach cat like an F18. Way cheaper, way easier to sail / manage, same speed, big fleets, actually has proper class rules etc.

#90 honestjohn

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 12:28 PM

I get it windwhacker, your not interested, prefer an f22 or f18, then FUCK OFF and let those of us interested hold a discussion. constructive criticism is useful, the shit you are going on with has no value. there is an f22 thread,and no doubt a discussion about f18's somewhere,be gone!

#91 rob d

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:56 PM

I can see why people might struggle with the concept but this is one of quite a few to come out recently, just this one is 1-2m shorter than the rest and therefore less room. I think in concept it appears to be a smaller and cheaper SL33, TORO34, NACRA 36. There are others as well that are a little different, M32, D35 and the awesome GC32. I am sure there are many others. My wife and I sailed on our NACRA 5.8 for several years and once children were in the picture I know there is no way I would have been given the go ahead to go and spend on an F18. We did go for a Clissold 8.5. Far more expensive to complete and nudging the longest build ever, but having bunks and the ability to short cruise with the family made the outlay far more attractive. We could put a dome tent on the tramp, as could the Box Boat. I can see it fits at the bottom end of the really sporty cats and is a bit of a leap from an F18, but not comparable with an F-22. Traps, while not suitable for Category racing, would complete this cat for me! I can see a lot of merit in the concept at this size.



#92 Peter Hackett

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:44 PM

Still waiting for reply on sea trials fellas, did it capsize or not? Are you still out there cleaning off the choctop?

#93 EASY

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:31 PM

Still waiting for reply on sea trials fellas, did it capsize or not? Are you still out there cleaning off the choctop?

 

Yup we tipped it in. Was near the end of the day and not in the slightest windy, just got complacent and rolled it over in a little puff, two guys to leeward ect ect. The choctop took some cleaning but nothing damaged and it was a good exercise to tick off in the flat and shallow water of the lake. We have been talking for sometime about a tip inflation device to stop the boat turtling and after our swim I think its a must for any of this sized multi. We are struggling a little to get it nutted out tho, any help???  

 

As for the outboard motor discussion, for sure we will have a motor as its needed for category and usability of the boat on and off the dock ect. 

 

Thanks honestjohn for saying what we couldn't. 



#94 TheFlash

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:13 PM

Regarding the anti-turtle device, take a look at this - size as appropriate:

 

http://www.sailboats...lume_KSK40.html



#95 bush sailer

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:53 AM

I think a 26' cat called a firebird ??? has a righting system as does the geurgeon 32 with a float on the mast and adjustable stays. There is a video around somewhere. I believe being easily self righting would make the boat much more attractive.

Hopefully you will get it to the Bay to Bay and show everyone how quick it is. 

If you need stuff carried pm me as Rushour will be a mother ship. (It will cost you beer!!!)



#96 shaneo

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 03:40 AM

 We have been talking for sometime about a tip inflation device to stop the boat turtling and after our swim I think its a must for any of this sized multi. We are struggling a little to get it nutted out tho, any help???  

 

info@whitsundayoceanservices.com.au

These people service life lackets and life rafts,fix inflatables  and many other things. I'm shore they could make something that inflates when it hits the water or manually triggered.



#97 TheFlash

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 03:53 AM

See above, Secumar makes and  off-the-shelf inflatable device, basically a Inflatable PFD in the shape needed for a masthead.  You can put grommets on your sail and lash it to the grommets



#98 Yepyacht

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:31 AM

How do you plan on getting one of these things out of a marina...... No provision for an outboard?
Not many people can afford one of these and a rib / driver just to shadow them all day.
Why wouldnt you just buy an F18 and go and race 50 boats at a fraction of the cost, much easier handling, way cheaper running costs and at the same speed.
Also probably a good idea to actually test the thing in some proper wind and waves instead of light air and flat water.

No windwhacker...... Most peolple test sail a yacht in light to moderate conditions first before taking breeze and an ocean . you must be a hell dude. The boat looked good on the watert boys



#99 eric e

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:39 AM

yup, we all saw what happened to oracle

 

when they tried to ramp up the the development curve up their ac72

 

not pretty



#100 jayson

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 03:56 AM

Check out this video on YouTube:






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