304 replies to this topic

[B.Wilkinson]

Just saw from the AC facebook page that the energy boat broke free last night and went for an evening sail by itself. Anybody have details???

[can-UK]

info here

http://www.americasc...th-minor-damage

The boat was returned with minor damage and will be ready for the start of the racing.

[familysailor]

no--
But but now I know what an "Energy Boke" is.

I would have assumed there was a patrol or some kind of serious watch system in place considering the value of the fleet. Guess not...

[maxmini]

They should have MSP account for his activities for last night .

[SW Sailor]

They should have MSP Te Koodie account for his activities for last night .

Corrected. MSP is busy filing law suits against the whole world and is taking everyone to court on Mars.

[Landlockedlubber]

Just saw from the AC facebook page that the energy boat broke free last night and went for an evening sail by itself. Anybody have details???

Did it foil?

[cosmicsedso]

Just saw from the AC facebook page that the energy boat broke free last night and went for an evening sail by itself. Anybody have details???

Did it foil?

Its escape was 'foiled'!

[Landlockedlubber]

Just saw from the AC facebook page that the energy boat broke free last night and went for an evening sail by itself. Anybody have details???

Did it foil?

Its escape was 'foiled'!

Drat! Double Drat and Triple Drat!!!

[chic014]

From some guy who commented on the AC Facebook post:

"The mooring chain fouled on an old piece of concrete with rebar sticking out of it, at low tide. On the rising tide the mooring ball did not rise, but the cat did, and her bow lines parted. I know, I'm the diver who inspected the situation and help move the mooring today."

[hoom]

Do they leave them on a mooring with the wing up & unmanned?

[Tony-F18]

I suspect foul play


"Energy Team has offered a guest racer spot to Todd Tholke, who spotted the boat at Treasure Island and assisted in getting it back to the team on Sunday morning. He is scheduled to race with the crew on Wednesday."

Nice gesture by the Frenchies.

[Albatros]

I suspect foul play


"Energy Team has offered a guest racer spot to Todd Tholke, who spotted the boat at Treasure Island and assisted in getting it back to the team on Sunday morning. He is scheduled to race with the crew on Wednesday."

Nice gesture by the Frenchies.

LMAO, if that's the way to get a ride they better keep a close watch on the cats

[fogmachine]

Do they leave them on a mooring with the wing up & unmanned?

Yes, during practice times they're just swinging next to Piers 30-32, and during the ACWS they swing off the Marina Green.

The Pier 30-32 site has 24-hour security, but they're mostly watching the front gate, not really on the lookout for evening sailing activity.

[MoMP]

I suspect foul play


"Energy Team has offered a guest racer spot to Todd Tholke, who spotted the boat at Treasure Island and assisted in getting it back to the team on Sunday morning. He is scheduled to race with the crew on Wednesday."

Nice gesture by the Frenchies.

LMAO, if that's the way to get a ride they better keep a close watch on the cats

No, they better keep a close watch on this forum....

[MoMP]

I suspect foul play


"Energy Team has offered a guest racer spot to Todd Tholke, who spotted the boat at Treasure Island and assisted in getting it back to the team on Sunday morning. He is scheduled to race with the crew on Wednesday."

Nice gesture by the Frenchies.

"and assisted in getting it back to the team.". Translation: "you boys want yer boat back?". "I'll sail it over myself....."

[Tony-F18]

Turns out that Mr.Tholke isnt such a good samaritan after all, but more like a money hungry A-hole:
http://www.sfgate.co...ard-3934214.php

Local sailor Todd Tholke is either a Good Samaritan or a high-seas pirate.
On Sept. 30, Tholke was a hero when he went out on the bay in the middle of the night to single-handedly rescue the runaway French catamaran Energy. The America's Cup World Series boat snapped its mooring line at Piers 30-32 that night and drifted off into the darkness, unmanned and out of control. It fetched up on the rocks of Treasure Island, where it was spotted from the land by Tholke.

At 3:30 a.m., Tholke pulled it off the shore with his 14-foot Boston Whaler. He then towed it to the Treasure Isle Marina and handed it back to the racing team.
The French were so grateful they offered to give Tholke a ride on the bay.
But Friday, as the French prepared for the regatta, Tholke's representatives presented them with a warrant from U.S. District Court to "arrest" the boat and take it into custody as soon as Sunday's races were over.

Based on a law from the 1800s, Tholke's attorney John Edgcomb said in court documents, the rescue had established "a valid maritime salvage claim" and Tholke was entitled to "a liberal maritime salvage award." Edgcomb said the amount was up to the court, but something "in excess of $200,000."

[forss]

America, fuck yeah!!

[jasenj1]

America: Come for the sailing, stay for the lawsuits!

Welcome to America. Here's your summons.

Is there a Congressional Medal of Shame that can be issued to this guy?

[hoom]

Lol I was going to ask about how long a boat had to be 'abandoned' for a salvage claim.

But then it said he gave it back so I didn't, I'd have thought a few hours would be insufficent.

[porthos]

That is pathetic and very disheartening.

[eric e]

Turns out that Mr.Tholke isnt such a good samaritan after all, but more like a money hungry A-hole:
http://www.sfgate.co...ard-3934214.php


At 3:30 a.m., Tholke pulled it off the shore with his 14-foot Boston Whaler. He then towed it to the Treasure Isle Marina and handed it back to the

could it be

EaglesPDX?

[Tony-F18]

From this loser's facebook page:

• "I'm an entertainer -"Song and Dance Man" -I sing and play the best songs I can find and aspire to be a good songwriter - I do onto others as I would have done onto myself - I have a great respect for those who speak the truth - I create from what I feel, astrologically speaking - I have lived aboard a sailboat for 16 years"

[onimod]

(speechless)

[tomtom]

From this loser's facebook page:

• "I'm an entertainer -"Song and Dance Man" -I sing and play the best songs I can find and aspire to be a good songwriter - I do onto others as I would have done onto myself - I have a great respect for those who speak the truth - I create from what I feel, astrologically speaking - I have lived aboard a sailboat for 16 years"

Yup, speechless too, and he has a face like a slapped arse! which you want to slap again, and again, and again...

[MSA]

Hey If its the law...

Morally wrong or not.. The law is the law.. A judge can't rule on someones "Morals".

I agree its wrong.. But there are many ridiculous, outdated laws that still get ruled on in this modern era.

Any US Maritime Lawyers able to pull up some precedents?

[porthos]

Hey If its the law...

Morally wrong or not.. The law is the law.. A judge can't rule on someones "Morals".

I agree its wrong.. But there are many ridiculous, outdated laws that still get ruled on in this modern era.

Any US Maritime Lawyers able to pull up some precedents?

Just because you can do something does not mean that you must or should. You can take the decision out of the judge's hand by not putting your's out in the first place.

[MSA]

I agree. But laws have been and are written for a reason. Unfortunately it takes some massive fucktard to do things like this and then certain people to lobby and have the law changed.. Provided that the Salvage rights law actually applies to this case. If it doesn't, then this guy is an ever bigger fucktard. (Yes that's a legal term )

Another example is in a certain AUS State, only a licensed electrician can change a light bulb.. If you really hate some one you could film it and provide it to the Police, or if a Strata owned light fitting you can push Civil proceeding for "endangering" other occupants. Its not right and the law hasn't kept up with the times but it is still the law.

[MR.CLEAN]

I think we should open the floodgates on this dickhead.

[Tony-F18]

+200000

[bluelaser]

I think we should open the floodgates on this dickhead.

Front page material? I think yes.

[Albatros]

I think we should open the floodgates on this dickhead.

isn't there something somewhere in your legalese system on which somebody could file a lawsuit against this gold digger for doing what he did or some little detail when doing that ? since he claims that - I do onto others as I would have done onto myself - it seems to be only appropriate, no ?

[porthos]

I think we should open the floodgates on this dickhead.

isn't there something somewhere in your legalese system on which somebody could file a lawsuit against this gold digger for doing what he did or some little detail when doing that ? since he claims that - I do onto others as I would have done onto myself - it seems to be only appropriate, no ?

Nope -- and rightfully so. But we can use our freedom of speech to shout at the top of our lungs that he is a fucktard dickweed.

[bluelaser]

I'm not sure he has a case - once he handed possession back to them it's theirs, right? Or is the law seriously that fucked up?

[Tony-F18]

From his lawyer's profile page, I wonder which team he worked for:
http://edgcomb-law.c...s/john-edgcomb/

"Recently, John provided international maritime environmental law advice to a participant in the February 2010 America’s Cup Challenge."


Since 2010 was the DoG year, the options are very, very, limited.

[krispy kreme]

I think we should open the floodgates on this dickhead.

hmmm. I wonder if Mr. Tholke's Boston Whaler has current vessel registration in the state of CA and all taxes paid up? Likewise for his live aboard sailboat. I wonder if Mr. Tholke is living aboard in a marina that allows live aboards, since so few do. I wonder when the last time was that Mr. Tholke's vessels have been inspected by the Coast Guard?

[roca]

I perfectly understand that you do not appreciate this guy's request, but it is very common maritime law everywhere in the world I think. In europe too (at least in Italy for sure) if you find a boat at sea you have right for up to 1/3 of the value. If you save a boat in danger is usually 5 to 10% of value.
Maybe clean can ask his friend VO about this matter, he knows a thing or two in this field for sure ....

[~Stingray~]

"Captain Courageous" lmao

Might be fun to find his report.

[porthos]

"Captain Courageous" lmao

When his lawyer called him a "hero" he misspelled "mercenary".

[Left Hook]

This is awesome...

[Steve Clark]

Britannica Online:
salvage, in maritime law, the rescue of a ship or its cargo on navigable waters from a peril that, except for the rescuer’s assistance, would have led to the loss or destruction of the property. Under some jurisdictions, aircraft may also be salved. Except for salvage performed under contract, the rescuer—known as the salvor—must act voluntarily without being under any legal duty to do so, apart from the general duty to give assistance to those in peril at sea or to stand by after a collision. So long as the owner or his agent remains on the ship, unwanted offers of salvage may be refused. A derelict—a vessel found entirely deserted or abandoned without hope or intention of recovery—is, however, fair game for anyone who comes across it. Typical acts of salvage include releasing ships that have run aground or on reefs, raising sunken ships (or their cargo), putting out fires, and so on.
The popular belief that a salvor becomes the owner of the property, at least if it was abandoned by the owner or was derelict, is erroneous. The owner may always reclaim his property from the salvor on paying salvage money. The salvor, for his part, has a maritime lien on the salved property (in an amount determined by national statute or juridical custom) and need not return the property to the owner until his claim is satisfied or until security to meet an award is given. An owner who elects not to reclaim his property cannot be made liable for a salvage reward.
Much salvage is carried out under contract by professional salvors. Ordinarily, such salvors get nothing unless the salvage is to some degree successful.


Sounds like Energy was floating around un-manned and in peril.
Mr Tholke saved Energy's insurance company a great deal of money.
He is entitled top ask for compensation and they should pay him for doing them a great service.

Of course he could just say "I am just repaying a debt of honor to General Lafayette!"
But most people wouldn't understand why.
SHC

[Tornado-Cat]

I think we should open the floodgates on this dickhead.

hmmm. I wonder if Mr. Tholke's Boston Whaler has current vessel registration in the state of CA and all taxes paid up? Likewise for his live aboard sailboat. I wonder if Mr. Tholke is living aboard in a marina that allows live aboards, since so few do. I wonder when the last time was that Mr. Tholke's vessels have been inspected by the Coast Guard?

+1
If he wants to play by the book, then....

[jhc]

I don't think Bruno's Team (atomic) Energy is liable for the ransom. ACRM has a 'service' agreement with the acws teams, and are probably responsible for the boats when they are involved with an event.
So, no problem for the french, larry's lawyers will just crush this little guy the same way they crushed EB. Call in Mr. Boies!

[porthos]

Of course he could just say "I am just repaying a debt of honor to General Lafayette!"

I'm still laughing at that.

If maritime law requires a "derelict" vessel to be "abandoned without hope or intention of recovery," that certainly doesn't fit here. An incredibly valuable boat unintentionally broke loose in a contained bay in the middle of the night. It's not like it would have been difficult to notice it was missing in the morning nor difficult to find and recover. Had Energy Team known it had gone missing, they certainly would have gone looking for it. In other words, it certainly wasn't "abandoned without hope or intention of recovery." In that context, this assclown's "recovery" of it is more "I beat you to it" and "finder's, keepers" than anything approaching commendable action promoting economic utility.

[aldo]

I think we should open the floodgates on this dickhead.

This guy is a lawyer for sure.

[Tornado-Cat]

Details here

http://dockets.justi...cv05162/259545/

http://docs.justia.c...f?ts=1349460072

http://docs.justia.c...f?ts=1349723179

[jhc]

I think we should open the floodgates on this dickhead.

This guy went to law school for sure.

fixed it...

[Tornado-Cat]

Same guy ?

http://www.sfbg.com/...-sacred-grounds

[SW Sailor]

E-mail sent to the attorney;

Dear John,

You have to be a total jerk for trying to extort money from France’s team Energy for your client’s rescue of their boat when it broke loose from its moorings.

Of course you do realize this is already receiving WW attention, none of it favorable to you, your client, San Francisco, or the United States for that matter. Is your business that far in the toilet or are your motivations pure greed ?

$200,000 ?? Honestly ?? How about $50.00 for gas, $200.00 for his time, minus the value of the ride he received on the boat during the ACWS, valued at $4000.00, which was a most generous and kind offer of appreciation from the team ?

Nice hospitality to our foreign guests that support our city in many ways by racing here. Loick Peyron, Energy team skipper is one of most accomplished multi-hull sailors in the world, a total gentleman, and you tarnish his experience in the US and his participation in the ACWS with this crap ?

In the boating community we willingly help out fellow boaters in need, without asking for compensation of any kind, so I trust you can see why this reflects such poor judgment on your part and that of your client, who I expect will be railroaded anytime he shows his face on the docks or on the water.

This is literally unbelievable.

I suggest you immediately withdraw the law suit and issue a public apology for your actions.

No respect whatsoever,

Fellow boater

[Tornado-Cat]

America, fuck yeah!!

You cannot judge america because of the act of one Asshole

[roca]

I really don't see why are you all bothered with this guy for asking his legal granted compensation from some insured idiots who had a million dollar carbon winged cat free at sea in the night without knowing.
They would have spent way more in damages if it got to shore somewhere in the bay, let alone the danger it could be for people at sea or on the shore. Someone is very lucky he saw it and went out at night to take it back in harbour.

Bad for him it was not the 72....

[CrushDigital]

I really don't see why are you all bothered with this guy for asking his legal granted compensation from some insured idiots who had a million dollar carbon winged cat free at sea in the night without knowing.
They would have spent way more in damages if it got to shore somewhere in the bay, let alone the danger it could be for people at sea or on the shore. Someone is very lucky he saw it and went out at night to take it back in harbour.

Bad for him it was not the 72....

The salvage claim is dubious and, given the lawsuit, the only person very lucky he saw it is Tholke himself.

[rule69]

Might be worth checking CA law. I know some states have rules about salvage in their own waters that tend to protect property holders.

That said, if he'd left the boat bouncing off the rocks it might easily have been a total loss. I would have gone for a ride and maybe a bit of swag but I'm not sure the guy is evil for asking ET for some bucks.

[SW Sailor]

Same guy ?

http://www.sfbg.com/...-sacred-grounds

Maybe it's time for an Occupy Sacred Grounds Café on a Thursday night to exercise our freedom of speech.

[ro!]

Same guy ?

http://www.sfbg.com/...-sacred-grounds

Maybe it's time for an Occupy Sacred Grounds Café on a Thursday night to exercise our freedom of speech.

Great idea...you go trample on his rght to free speech..
You could take the homeless guys you promised to take to Dalys Bar...but didn't....

[bluelaser]

I'm a little surprised the teams don't have some sort of warning system for when their boats break loose. Not really hard to do.

[DA-WOODY]

I'm sure the offices of "Karma & Darwin" are following this closely

My Guess the facker accepted Compensation (that had a set value) for his rescue efforts = PAID IN FULL

The END of that issue

The Beginning of a LONG Bout of Ridicrule from a oh so Small World of Sailors

Teeing off in 3 - 2 - 1 ....................................





PS Ain't no way in HELL you are going to ride on back an AC-45 w/o signing a heep of stuff first

Think the facker read it all before she (Man Card Voided) signed it ??

think anyone was sharp enough to add a few lines to cover the Boat rescue matter and put it to Bed ??

[~Stingray~]

Incredible that he survived!

[rule69]

Just because...

[Winged]

First lets ask this whats this guy doing out there at that time of night ? Second Coast Guard completely screwed the pouch on this if there not going to tow the boat in then I know in My neck of the woods they usually call sea tow. Sea tow then tows the boat to the Coast Guard station on call that night . Then the owner is charged the Tow fee end of story . You think Sea tow be in Business very long if they charged every Salvage claim with a Stunt like this . First Put the law firm up in lites these ambulance chasers .

How do we know this guy didn't cut the boat loose in the first place ? Second the security team watches the bases and the boats Fire them dont pay them etc.
First night speakers where put on the point for the commentary of racing action 12 speakers at a cost of four hundred a pop stolen right in front same security company . They drove right past sfyc all the way down the Spit and loaded twelve speakers that where placed down the whole road .

Third this guy should be banned from every marina yacht club sailing venue ferry system etc. lets paste his face all over sf bay area (Pirate at Large) . What a complete asshole . Sea tow would tops charge you by the nautical mile to the coast guard station . But the idiot Judge who signed this doesn't know shit about the law this idiot returned the boat accepted there ride offer .

He returned the boat no longer has possession gets a hand shake . and a pat on the back , Not Now now hes gonna get a legal bill his name stricken from the bay area locals and be out of pocket what this costs the Peyron brothers . If your gona be a salvage shit head lower than whale shit son of a bitch . At least get it right . You gave the boat back asshole .

Love to meet this guy in a bar . Teach him some manners That goes for the Lawyer as well . The Coast Guard who took the call as well totally botched this . Fleet week this guys out in a whaler next to aircraft carriers etc great security we have .
Anyone know this guys address email phone number where he works etc. email it to me have just the answer for this clown .
http://dockets.justi...8kfr2bY.blogger

[Winged]

I'm a little surprised the teams don't have some sort of warning system for when their boats break loose. Not really hard to do.

Actually there is if there pell boxes are in them you can track where the boats is im sure there systems where not installed at the time thou . Who ever is paid to watch these boats certainly getting a way with murder ..What do expect when you hire a security company from richmond ..

[Winged]

Incredible that he survived!

All Whalers take on water. And then the mighty black boat reared it sharp Spinaker pole and trust upon my head a great lump .

[PeterHuston]

Incredible that he survived!

A shame that Captain Kithcart wasn't on the scene to help assist, given his vast knowledge of maritime procedure and legal process.

[rule69]

First lets ask this whats this guy doing out there at that time of night ? Second Coast Guard completely screwed the pouch on this if there not going to tow the boat in then I know in My neck of the woods they usually call sea tow. Sea tow then tows the boat to the Coast Guard station on call that night . Then the owner is charged the Tow fee end of story . You think Sea tow be in Business very long if they charged every Salvage claim with a Stunt like this . First Put the law firm up in lites these ambulance chasers ....

According to Sea Tow's web site, in the case of pure salvage this is exactly what they would do. http://www.seatow.co...tanding-salvage

I also don't see an obvious problem with how the CG handled this.

It sounds like the mooring failed because it fouled something on the bottom. He didn't cut it.

Is it illegal to be out in a boat in the Bay at night?

Seriously, the guy may be out of line in his claims but, IMO, you're way over the top with your accusations in this post.

[Tornado-Cat]

This g

Same guy ?

http://www.sfbg.com/...-sacred-grounds

Maybe it's time for an Occupy Sacred Grounds Café on a Thursday night to exercise our freedom of speech.

Yep, and "take care" of his guitar.

[Tornado-Cat]

What was this guy doing in a Whaler at this time ? did he have proper boat lights ? proper security equipment ? boat registered ? tax paid ?

If it was as dangerous as he claims, why did not he call the coast guards ?

If he nearly capsized, he put his own life in danger, and rescuer's ones too.

[Beck's]

My feeling is that if one is to be a responsible yacht owner you had better understand the potential for a salvage claim and be covered with proper insurance to defend or pay such a claim…. (the AC45 is likely insured for this event) And if you are so lucky as to be the one in a position to render assistance as a “volunteer” and are “successful” in a “pure salvage” situation you deserve the salvage award for your efforts. And if you put yourself and your equipment in “danger” your award is likely greater. But as evidenced by the hostilities of the posts you also need be well versed in some good PR so that you can survive to spend your salvage award. And for comparison sake, all of you who think $200,000 sounds like a lot, you should research the salvage awards typically made to the “professionals” like SeaTow and Tow Boat US.

[mcsailor0303]

They offered him a ride??!! I would PAY 200,000 for a ride on an AC45!!!

[Rennmaus]

They offered him a ride??!! I would PAY 200,000 for a ride on an AC45!!!

Ask ETNZ. They can certainly use this money.

[PeterHuston]

They offered him a ride??!! I would PAY 200,000 for a ride on an AC45!!!

If you have that kind of cash, or even a reasonable fraction thereof, I'm sure you can get a ride.

[Tony-F18]

Story now picked up by the Huffington Post as well:
http://www.huffingto..._n_1955871.html

[kiwi_jon]

I wonder if the lawyer John Edgcomb is the same John Edgcomb who was bow on Courageous in 1974, 1977, 1980 and was syndicate manager for the Eagle Challenge in 1987.

The four day delay in filing court papers would seem to indicate that Edgcomb ambulance chased Tholke after the rescue was reported on the AC website and local SF press on the 1st Oct.

30th Sept - ET AC45 rescued by Tholke
1st Oct - Rescue reported on AC website.
4th Oct - Court papers filed by Edgcomb.

[pogen]

Well you know, if they were sailing monohulls with cabins and berths like God intended, they could have had an anchor watch aboard and none of this need have happened.

[Left Hook]

If the arrest was supposed to happen on 10/7... did it? Is Energy Team still at the pier in SF or has it been packed up and shipped away?

[Rasputin22]

I'm a little surprised the teams don't have some sort of warning system for when their boats break loose. Not really hard to do.

http://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=113

This should work

[PeterHuston]

I wonder if the lawyer John Edgcomb is the same John Edgcomb who was bow on Courageous in 1974, 1977, 1980 and was syndicate manager for the Eagle Challenge in 1987.

The four day delay in filing court papers would seem to indicate that Edgcomb ambulance chased Tholke after the rescue was reported on the AC website and local SF press on the 1st Oct.

30th Sept - ET AC45 rescued by Tholke
1st Oct - Rescue reported on AC website.
4th Oct - Court papers filed by Edgcomb.

Absolutely not. LJ lives in Orange County.

[eric e]

if you find a boat at sea you have right for up to 1/3 of the value. If you save a boat in danger is usually 5 to 10% of value.
Maybe clean can ask his friend VO about this matter, he knows a thing or two in this field for sure ....

as sea yes

in the harbor, no

[Winged]

I say the guy stole the boat with this intention .And the Lawyer well hes just a mono hull misfit left on shore as the world flashes past him in a Cat 'This law is so gray only really ever invoked when some sumbag tow boat owner need cash . Or happens upon a lucky hit . 9 times out ten there a mutual agreement made at least asked for here is a clear case of piracy of small claims court some one doest like the Americas cup in this courthouse that for sure .Why occupy his favorite haunt boycott the joint all together . Dont let them as well profit on this poor taste in Judgement . This is Text book hero to Zero.

[kiwi_jon]

I wonder if the lawyer John Edgcomb is the same John Edgcomb who was bow on Courageous in 1974, 1977, 1980 and was syndicate manager for the Eagle Challenge in 1987.

The four day delay in filing court papers would seem to indicate that Edgcomb ambulance chased Tholke after the rescue was reported on the AC website and local SF press on the 1st Oct.

30th Sept - ET AC45 rescued by Tholke
1st Oct - Rescue reported on AC website.
4th Oct - Court papers filed by Edgcomb.

Absolutely not. LJ lives in Orange County.

Thanks for that. Googled LJ Edgcomb and definately not the same person.

[Poida]

To those on this site towing the "it's the law" line - seriously......go F*CK yourselves. You will never understand what shame is.
Shit happens, and as a decent person you f*cking well just help people out when it does.
What a sad f*cking species we are. How depressing.

[~Stingray~]

I suppose the guy really needs some cash (sure sounds like it..) and so when the ambulance chaser showed up he said Sure, why not? The g-d chaser will get the bulk of anything, which is even sadder.

And given the max that guy might ever see? I bet the ride would have been the bigger memory, the greater life enricher, than the bs of a legacy he will now have to reflect on in his little mirror.

[WetHog]

Not going to pick a side in this unusual story, but I did find this bit of news interesting in the article sited on the FP:

Although Edgcomb is basing his financial claim on an estimated value of $1 million for the runaway catamaran, Team Energy says the boat is 5 years old, outdated and worth far less. They suggest that if Tholke is due a payment, it should be more in the range of $25,000. That's a $175,000 difference of opinion.


So what boat was "salvaged"? Energy's AC45, or a 5 year old tender? AC45's are not even 3 years old yet right? And I bet RC doesn't appreciate Energy saying his dream AC45's are outdated already.

WetHog

[DA-WOODY]

I suppose the guy really needs some cash (sure sounds like it..) and so when the ambulance chaser showed up he said Sure, why not? The g-d chaser will get the bulk of anything, which is even sadder.

And given the max that guy might ever see? I bet the ride would have been the bigger memory, the greater life enricher, than the bs of a legacy he will now have to reflect on in his little mirror.

I'll bet teh Wambalance chaser bought out the pirate for an offer of $1,000 cash on the spot to sign off/away any future claim to an award

With causeless requiring him to further co-operate and make unlimited whatever they tell him to do

people shall name urinals after him long before he gets an award (he already got 100% of his cut) and the investor gets any money

[WetHog]

To those on this site towing the "it's the law" line - seriously......go F*CK yourselves. You will never understand what shame is.
Shit happens, and as a decent person you f*cking well just help people out when it does.
What a sad f*cking species we are. How depressing.

Not going to say the guy is right in this, but get over yourself.

The guy is trying to shake down a professional sailing team, not a charity sailing program for inner city kids.

WetHog

[Indio]

It is the land of opportunity indeed!!

[WetHog]

It is the land of opportunity indeed!!

Apparently NZ isn't:

While being processed at the police station for a spree of offending, Marko Motu Williams pulled a camera from a stand and hid it in his underpants. Earlier he told a group of six Chinese tourists who were photographing a church he was going to get a gun after he unsuccessfully tried to rob them.

This has nothing to do with anything in this thread, but it made me laugh:

Boyracer to cops: 'Next time I'll smoke you'


A boyracer caught after a 14-minute high-speed pursuit involving 10 police cars was unrepentant afterwards, telling officers: "Next time I'll smoke you."
http://www.nzherald....jectid=10839827

Yeah even the beloved New Zealand has its share of turd offenders and all around not nice people, like this gem:



"East Coast Mongrel" indeed. Wonder if KKT Indio is a member of this fine social club.

WetHog

[kiwi_jon]

Not going to pick a side in this unusual story, but I did find this bit of news interesting in the article sited on the FP:

Although Edgcomb is basing his financial claim on an estimated value of $1 million for the runaway catamaran, Team Energy says the boat is 5 years old, outdated and worth far less. They suggest that if Tholke is due a payment, it should be more in the range of $25,000. That's a $175,000 difference of opinion.


So what boat was "salvaged"? Energy's AC45, or a 5 year old tender? AC45's are not even 3 years old yet right? And I bet RC doesn't appreciate Energy saying his dream AC45's are outdated already.

WetHog

It was definately the AC45 that was rescued, as reported by ET themselves. ET's AC45 would be no more than 18 months old.

[Indio]

It is the land of opportunity indeed!!

Apparently NZ isn't:

While being processed at the police station for a spree of offending, Marko Motu Williams pulled a camera from a stand and hid it in his underpants. Earlier he told a group of six Chinese tourists who were photographing a church he was going to get a gun after he unsuccessfully tried to rob them.

WetHog

How would you know? You need money to travel...

[WetHog]

It is the land of opportunity indeed!!

Apparently NZ isn't:

While being processed at the police station for a spree of offending, Marko Motu Williams pulled a camera from a stand and hid it in his underpants. Earlier he told a group of six Chinese tourists who were photographing a church he was going to get a gun after he unsuccessfully tried to rob them.

WetHog

How would you know? You need money to travel...

So you folk in NZ travel for free wherever you want? Guess ETNZ will have significant fan support, led by KKT, come LVC time next year.

WetHog

[Indio]

It is the land of opportunity indeed!!

Apparently NZ isn't:

While being processed at the police station for a spree of offending, Marko Motu Williams pulled a camera from a stand and hid it in his underpants. Earlier he told a group of six Chinese tourists who were photographing a church he was going to get a gun after he unsuccessfully tried to rob them.

WetHog

How would you know? You need money to travel...

So you folk in NZ travel for free wherever you want? Guess ETNZ will have significant fan support, led by KKT, come LVC time next year.

WetHog

You'd be very surprised how many there will be. Shame you wouldn't be able to afford it...

[Keith]

Well, This is a perfect example of why, non-American travelers worry about making even the slightest mistake, or accident, when visiting the good ole USA, and are always cautioned to have plenty of insurance while traveling there.... To bad, because its realy a great country to travel through.....

I had a lot of respect for this fellow for rescuing a boat that had broken free from its mooring,
now, not so much....

"$$$ ambulance chasing lawyers$$$"

[Hastings]

Hey If its the law...

It is not the law.

The guy is a complete arsehole.

However, this is as much a societal as an individual problem.

Yet this is the country that tells others how to organize themselves.

[Hastings]

if you find a boat at sea you have right for up to 1/3 of the value. If you save a boat in danger is usually 5 to 10% of value.
Maybe clean can ask his friend VO about this matter, he knows a thing or two in this field for sure ....

For reasons that are not apparent, I know a fair bit about salvage law.

What you say above is wrong.

Find an unattended boat floating around. Or on the rocks.

It is not your boat.

[MR.CLEAN]

My feeling is that if one is to be a responsible yacht owner you had better understand the potential for a salvage claim and be covered with proper insurance to defend or pay such a claim…. (the AC45 is likely insured for this event) And if you are so lucky as to be the one in a position to render assistance as a “volunteer” and are “successful” in a “pure salvage” situation you deserve the salvage award for your efforts. And if you put yourself and your equipment in “danger” your award is likely greater. But as evidenced by the hostilities of the posts you also need be well versed in some good PR so that you can survive to spend your salvage award. And for comparison sake, all of you who think $200,000 sounds like a lot, you should research the salvage awards typically made to the “professionals” like SeaTow and Tow Boat US.

You're right of course, and I've been on both sides of salvage operations, and it's incredible how bad the blood can get in some of them. And I have no objection to a salvor making a legitimate claim for salvage, which this cockface has. The only thing I object to is this $200,000 number that the lawyer is throwing around. Maybe the guy really did fuck his whaler up, and he rightfully asked Energy or the AC folks to pay the bill, and maybe they told him to fuck off, and maybe that's what is going on. We're looking into it.

[B.Wilkinson]

Why was this guy up and paying enough attention to see the boat on the water at 3:30 in the first place????

[Hastings]

You're right of course, and I've been on both sides of salvage operations,

Me too!

A lot of Americans think anyone who puts a line on their boat has some kind of claim. Not so!

Most salvage requires the consent of the owner of the salved goods. The award usually depends on 1. the value of the salved goods 2. the reesources (human + gear) deployed to do the job 3. the danger involved.

In this case there is value in the boat but fuck-all in the other two categories. Moreover, there is no salvage contract.

If Energy tell him to fuck himself (which they should) and it ever gets to an Admiralty court (or US equivalent) the judge will tell the kid to grow up and suggest the lawyer get a life.

The litigious nature of US life is a truly disgusting aspect of an otherwise alright (in some respects) country.

[MR.CLEAN]

Most salvage requires the consent of the owner of the salved goods. The award usually depends on 1. the value of the salved goods 2. the reesources (human + gear) deployed to do the job 3. the danger involved.

No consent required when a vessel is rescued from 'imminent and absolute danger.'Salvage will be appropriate since it was on the rocks. The question is simply how much salvage, which as you say depends on a judge's finding of the danger undertaken (with evidence introduced of the damage suffered by the salvor vessel), the likely damage if no action taken, and the value of the salved goods. Note that for you people complaining about the litigious US (which is absolutely true but not really in salvage law!) this law is not US law, but international maritime law with some modifications for US precedent. US maritime courts are pretty sensible for the most part; you should have seen some of the shit that went down in Panama and Costa Rica.

Chances are, the lawyer is putting the $200k number out there in hopes of settling for half, or the client put that number out there because he was pissed that someone from AC or ET blew him off when he told them he needed a new motor or whatever for his Whaler. I have contacted all parties and maybe can get some more info out of them soon.

[SW Sailor]

Not going to pick a side in this unusual story, but I did find this bit of news interesting in the article sited on the FP:

Although Edgcomb is basing his financial claim on an estimated value of $1 million for the runaway catamaran, Team Energy says the boat is 5 years old, outdated and worth far less. They suggest that if Tholke is due a payment, it should be more in the range of $25,000. That's a $175,000 difference of opinion.


So what boat was "salvaged"? Energy's AC45, or a 5 year old tender? AC45's are not even 3 years old yet right? And I bet RC doesn't appreciate Energy saying his dream AC45's are outdated already.

WetHog

It was the AC 45 that broke it's mooring, not a tender.

In terms of the 5 year old comment, many inaccuracies in the press all the time, who who knows where it came from because it's pretty common knowledge these boats aren't 5 years old. I'll add that this specific reporter is not known for checking his facts. His last article had AC72's pegged as 85 footers.

The value of anything is determined by the market price, which is normally defined as what a willing buyer will offer and a willing seller will accept, which has no relation to a three year old purchase price.

What do you assume one could sell a 2 year old AC45 for given the series is winding down and future prospects beyond 2013 are uncertain at this time ?

I'd like nothing less than to see this gold digger and his ambulance chasing attorney face a full-on shit storm for years to come because of this incident. The guy accepts an offer of a ride on the boat in appreciation for his effort and turns around and sues them filing a complaint that sounds like he pulled the boat through a hurricane, yet the wind in SF at 3:30 AM was ~ 6 knots decreasing to 5 knots at 4:30.

If nothing else this attorney might win a Pulitzer prize for his complaint.

I'd like to know what marina this guy docks his boat.

[SW Sailor]

Why was this guy up and paying enough attention to see the boat on the water at 3:30 in the first place????

Because he's such a good citizen.

Although a legitimate question it is immaterial to the circumstances.

The question is why would he accept the good faith offer of a ride and then turn around and sue them ?

[~Stingray~]

That he apparently turned it back over to them, maybe before hearing from the Ambulance Chaser, could prove a touch problematic too.

[ro!]

Not going to pick a side in this unusual story, but I did find this bit of news interesting in the article sited on the FP:

Although Edgcomb is basing his financial claim on an estimated value of $1 million for the runaway catamaran, Team Energy says the boat is 5 years old, outdated and worth far less. They suggest that if Tholke is due a payment, it should be more in the range of $25,000. That's a $175,000 difference of opinion.


So what boat was "salvaged"? Energy's AC45, or a 5 year old tender? AC45's are not even 3 years old yet right? And I bet RC doesn't appreciate Energy saying his dream AC45's are outdated already.

WetHog

It was the AC 45 that broke it's mooring, not a tender.

In terms of the 5 year old comment, many inaccuracies in the press all the time, who who knows where it came from because it's pretty common knowledge these boats aren't 5 years old. I'll add that this specific reporter is not known for checking his facts. His last article had AC72's pegged as 85 footers.

The value of anything is determined by the market price, which is normally defined as what a willing buyer will offer and a willing seller will accept, which has no relation to a three year old purchase price.

What do you assume one could sell a 2 year old AC45 for given the series is winding down and future prospects beyond 2013 are uncertain at this time ?

I'd like nothing less than to see this gold digger and his ambulance chasing attorney face a full-on shit storm for years to come because of this incident. The guy accepts an offer of a ride on the boat in appreciation for his effort and turns around and sues them filing a complaint that sounds like he pulled the boat through a hurricane, yet the wind in SF at 3:30 AM was ~ 6 knots decreasing to 5 knots at 4:30.

If nothing else this attorney might win a Pulitzer prize for his complaint.

I'd like to know what marina this guy docks his boat.

It's easy..when you take your homeless guys to the cafe to deny the guy his right to free speech, give one of them an extra 10 bucks to follow him back to the marina..
When he reports back to you give him a 10 buck bonus, before you run to the marina and confront the douchebag who pulled a 1$M boat in before it foundered on a rocky island and who dares to ask for a bit of trouser money...