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J 30 - Perfect Family Wed Night Racer and Weekend Fun?


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#1 esoxproblem

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:28 PM

I am really close to being the owner of a J 30.

I have chosen a boat at the upper end of the market in an effort to choose what I want to spend money on after I buy and not be forced by a boat w/ issues. This is a new theory for me. in the past, I have been all about purchase price.

We want something for Wed night racing and also something that seconds as a cheap cabin for our family of 4.

Anyone want to talk me away form the edge or push me over???

I would appreciate owner experiences good or bad...

Thanks

#2 Left Hook

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:00 PM

Do it. You won't regret it. The only caveat emptor is the balsa problem. Just double check those things before plunking down. Otherwise you'll be glad you made the leap.

#3 WHK

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:31 AM

If you haven't yet registered on the J/30 forum, please do so and ask questions there. You'll be glad you did!

Where is the boat located?

#4 haligonian winterr

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:58 AM

Do it, beware stanchion bases getting soggy and soft, but it's a problem with all boats, not specifically J30s.

We replaced two sections of core below the waterline two years ago, one 4' by 8' (huge) and one 2' by 3' (not as huge).

Only other under-waterline repair I know of was where the trailing edge of the keel joins the hull, probably from making real good friends with the bottom a few time though.

Great fun, good to race.

HW

#5 not for nothing 2

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:12 AM

j-30 awesome boat , do it!

#6 NutCase27

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:58 PM

It is same as all J Boats of that era. Wet core problems in deck. These can be fixed without too much difficulty. Check hull for moisture (have surveyor do it as part of pre purchase inspection). Hull if wet is more difficult to fix.

As for suitability the J/30 has a very nice interior for a boat that has that kind of performance. The cockpit is small and the side decks slanted would be your main concerns esp if you have very young children. Easy to work around that though.

J/30 is an excellent dual purpose boat. Is too bad there are not a lot of modern boats that combine performance and comfort in the same manner and affordability.

Mike
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#7 bloodshot

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:31 PM

i grew up with J30 as a kid and it was awesome. great racer and can be cruised for a week or more comfortably. i seem to recall that there is a "new" cockpit layout so it would be wise to investigate.

#8 Foxxy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

A member of our club has owned Sleigh ride (still pictured on the J-Boats website) since he purchased it from Bob J many years ago. He and his wife still love the boat and as far as I know have never had any problems with it. There are two others at our club, also with happy owners.

#9 SailMoore1

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:42 PM

I am on my 3rd J Boat and they are a quality product. I had a J 30 for many years in the late 80's and it never let me down. Simple to work on, not too large of sails which keeps the cost down. The boat did everything right. There are fast boats and there are better cruising boats. I had a great time doing Wednesday night races and some more official racing. But the boat was also great for a weekend or a week of cruising over to Catalina. Plenty of room for the family and the ice box was great. The prices on these boats have been stable and reasonable for a long time. So if you are looking for a reasonably fast boat that can still do a week cruise. It is an excellent choice. And with the prices being so stable you have little to lose if you keep it a few years and try something else. I did but have now returned to J's. One of the other posts talks about wet core. It is an issue but not a deal killer. My guess is every J from that era has some wet core somewhere. But unless the area is large and located at a critical area it is rarely a structural issue. Do get a survey to make an informed choice plus wet core is the biggest bargaining point on a sales price.

#10 arcpix

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 04:59 PM

We bought our J-30 just last week and cannot wait till spring when we can get her in the water and go. Previous owner did a magnificent job of addressing old boat issues. Everyone who has seen the boat raves about it. This now makes four in our area. Need to persuade a couple of others to dive in also.

I'd insert a photo but am apparently too stupid to figure out how. Guess I'll ask one of my kids.

#11 GT_desertkarma

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 05:28 PM

I crew on a J/30... my skipper will use it for everything you mentioned. In-shore PHRF, Off-shore distance, day-sailing booze-cruise, and overnight non-race fun.

Plenty of space, easy to sail, and it really does well in PHRF.

#12 GT_desertkarma

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 05:30 PM

Oh and SailMoore1 made a great point on sail cost. Racing genoa for a J/30 is half to 2/3s the cost vs. something like a C&C35.

#13 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:28 PM

go fot it. fun boats.

#14 Tool

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:27 PM

Where do you plan to race,cruise,sail it? I'm mostly into J24's but my Dad had hull 498 when I was younger. We had a fleet of 7 of them that we raced OD every Wednesday night. It was a lot of fun. We are down to 3 of them. Definitely get one of the ones with the older style cockpits. The ones with the backrests suck, in addition they are much heavier(and slower) in the ass. Actually the fastest one was a 79'. I'm trying to talk the local phrf rule beater guys into buying a J30 and building the local fleet up again, but they all have silver fever like most wankers do.

#15 Meanie

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:56 PM

I have to chime in to disagree STRONGLY with Tool's comments on the later model 30's. As far as speed goes, the record is basically even in the NA championships between the later models and earlier ones. The last NA champ was an early model, the prior three years were won by the later model cockpit (two different boats). Bebop is a later model version and won the NA's multiple times. I own a later model, and I've sailed on both-the newer model is MUCH more comfortable, easier on jib trimmers knees, and is a much better layout for cruising and for sailing with small children. I've participated in multiple one design regattas and I can say that there is absolutely no speed differential between the different versions-it all comes down to boat prep, rig tune, sails, driving and tactics. The J/30 class is a true one design class.

#16 Left Hook

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

I have to chime in to disagree STRONGLY with Tool's comments on the later model 30's. As far as speed goes, the record is basically even in the NA championships between the later models and earlier ones. The last NA champ was an early model, the prior three years were won by the later model cockpit (two different boats). Bebop is a later model version and won the NA's multiple times. I own a later model, and I've sailed on both-the newer model is MUCH more comfortable, easier on jib trimmers knees, and is a much better layout for cruising and for sailing with small children. I've participated in multiple one design regattas and I can say that there is absolutely no speed differential between the different versions-it all comes down to boat prep, rig tune, sails, driving and tactics. The J/30 class is a true one design class.


This, a thousand times this. In the end the difference will be mitigated by 1 second lost through a tack and if you're to that point where you're doing everything perfectly then you're already winning everything and that 1 second is immaterial.

#17 Tool

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:46 AM

Wow! Settle down J30 super stars! Any well prepared boat sailed by a good team will win. No Shit! I don't even like J30's, but they are a good boat, with good value and I'm supportive of any one design class. The comments about the cockpit arrangements were what was experienced and expressed from J30 owners I know that have owned and raced both versions. I'm sure both have their benefits but I'll stop spreading false rumors from long time J30 owners/racers.

#18 Meanie

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:57 PM

No harm, no foul Tool. Just trying to set the record straight based on my own view after 15 (yikes!) years of owning my later model boat.

#19 JPD

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:21 PM

I raced on two different 30's years a go, and against each periodically.

Fun, easy to sail, but needing weight upwind. We had a difficult time sailing to the rating under 10 true in a PHRF fleet, on any point of sail.

Very nice and comfortable down below. Assuming the deck and hull are ok, I would recommend it as a very decent all a rounder....

#20 dacapo

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:45 AM

buy stock in Tylenol.....the unbalanced rudder may cause bursitis and shoulder/elbow injury over time....

#21 WHK

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:48 AM

buy stock in Tylenol.....the unbalanced rudder may cause bursitis and shoulder/elbow injury over time....


Nothing that proper sail trim can't fix! I was out in 30 kts this spring in the Leukemia Cup regatta. Blade & Reefed main worked well. 11.4 kts downwind with that sail combo! Upwind about 5.5kt with waves/chop/swell about 6 ft.

#22 bloodshot

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:56 PM

does anyone know the hull #/date of build of the new cockpit boats?

#23 arcpix

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:01 PM

Folks at class website will know.

#24 phrf#!k

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:53 PM

The new cockpit version started in 1984-I think somewhere around hull 450.

#25 bloodshot

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:34 PM

thanks. The class website says its around #455 or so.

#26 phrf#!k

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:49 PM

I think Fuzzy Wuzzy (former 2 time class champ) was a "transitional" boat, with the new cockpit and the old cabin-hull number 452. So 455 sounds right.

#27 chaos!341

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:51 PM

i'm on my second j-30...
first one was hull #197....
i owned it until august 29, 2005....katrina ate it......
i bought it in 1990, day sailed and raced the crap out of it....it was finally showing the strain of my constant abuse in all conditions...
my crew and i sailed the boat on an average of 100 days a year....REALLY...
boat was equiped with shore power, pressure water, and water heater...my wife and i would annually spend 2 weeks a year cruising in the summer...
we'd stay at marinas so we could use the a/c....

I acquired ex-tiger, hull #341 from annapolis in 2009...previous owners had taken very good care of it....
the past few years we haven't sailed it much as we are still busy with katrina issues.....
my long time crew and i are getting ready to start a full race schedule again....

check for blistering below the water line on the starboard side (hull was layed p in 2 pieces)...
for some reason the right 1/2 usually suffered according to many owners and surveyors i spoke with....
check the mast at the spreaders to see if the spreader roots at the front aren't pealing back....

the j-30 is one hell of a boat and i could often go boat for boat with a j-29 frac rig....

tim

#28 clamslapper

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:38 PM

I am really close to being the owner of a J 30.

I have chosen a boat at the upper end of the market in an effort to choose what I want to spend money on after I buy and not be forced by a boat w/ issues. This is a new theory for me. in the past, I have been all about purchase price.

We want something for Wed night racing and also something that seconds as a cheap cabin for our family of 4.

Anyone want to talk me away form the edge or push me over???

I would appreciate owner experiences good or bad...

Thanks




I don't know. Ugliest helm feel of any sailboat I have ever sailed. A J29 isn't great, but a J30 is simply ridiculous. I really don't know why that is.

#29 chaos!341

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:18 PM

if you can buy a cherry, well taken care off, turn key boat....
BUY IT!!!!

buy one any way....

they are a forgiving boat that can easily be daysailed with 2 people and when i was younger, it was often just me and "auto" whom never talked back at me... Takes a crew of 6 to make one really go fast, and a 7 th doesn't hurt in a breeze with sail handling....

6 on the rail we go up wind at 6+ kt carrying a #1 ap and a full main....
that would be here in the mississippi sound....

tim

#30 chaos!341

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:28 PM



I don't know. Ugliest helm feel of any sailboat I have ever sailed. A J29 isn't great, but a J30 is simply ridiculous. I really don't know why that is.


you know not which you speak....

you must not have ever sailed a properly tuned J-30 or J-29....
20kt across the deck up wind with a #1 ap the boat has a light weather helm...
only time boat and helm get tiresome is on a power reach...without a balanced rudder it's going to do that....
that's about the only time you need a #2 reacher on the boat....
once the #1 is putting too much helm in the boat you drop to a blade and you're going just as fast...

tim

#31 clamslapper

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:52 PM


I don't know. Ugliest helm feel of any sailboat I have ever sailed. A J29 isn't great, but a J30 is simply ridiculous. I really don't know why that is.


you know not which you speak....

you must not have ever sailed a properly tuned J-30 or J-29....
20kt across the deck up wind with a #1 ap the boat has a light weather helm...
only time boat and helm get tiresome is on a power reach...without a balanced rudder it's going to do that....
that's about the only time you need a #2 reacher on the boat....
once the #1 is putting too much helm in the boat you drop to a blade and you're going just as fast...

tim



I don't know. Sure seems like it needs a balanced rudder. The CCI balanced units look awesome, but I am sure that in addition to being insanely expensive they're illegal for OD. I don't know if a balanced rudder would be okay for PHRF but I guess they wouldn't care too much. I have driven two J30s and I think 3 J29s -- the 29s weren't great, but the 30s were simply horrendous in terms of helm feel. I'm not at all trying to diss the boat -- it seems like a very rational all-in-one machine -- I just thought something was wrong with the design. I mean, a well set up J24 has a surgically precise feel to the helm that was utterly lacking on the 30.

BTW, just as a point of comparison, I was wondering: J24s are obviously accurately measured and weighed all the time, in large part because they're trivial to trailer and move around. I know J29s are very loosey-goosey as far as OD specs, and it devolves into something of an arms race. Are J30s a tight OD class? They're too big to trailer in most states without a permit, correct?

There was a guy up here who apparently successfully bolted a J29 keel to his J30. I think he had some medical issues so I don't believe that PHRF ever got to contemplate how much of a penalty they'd assess. But it struck me as an interesting idea.

#32 chaos!341

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:20 PM

clam....the gya phrf committee wanted to hit j-30's for about 9 seconds with a balanced rudder....

I owned mast head tonners until i bought #197 (my wife really liked it)...
other than sailing stars, thistles, lightings and snipes i had never sailed a big boat frac...
whole new paradign...had to rethink sail trim and a lot of other stuff....
i won't go back to masthead rig again...too much work changing sails all the time....

my first j-30 was set up terribly and sailed like shit...then my sail maker buddy who is a j-30 guru went over it tuning the rig and showing me how to trim it out right....
problem with helm went away....
as i said, we routinely carry a #1 ap all the way to 20kt up wind and the helm is light with just a enough weather helm to keep the feel of the boat...no struggle and the boat is well balanced...
going downwind in a good breeze is a rush...just make sure you're pointed in the right direction coming off a wave...have had 18kt on the speed log with the gps backing it up....

my newer j-30, hull #341, sails even better than the last one (hull in a lot better shape). I might add if one doesn't template the foils there's a possiblity that a boat may be wishy washy...
the only helm issue with a properly set up j-30 is power reaching and that's due to a lack of a balanced rudder...
other wise they are a delight to sail and i have sailed several down here on the coast as we have a fair sized fleet...

so your comments appear to come from a lack of experience in sailing the boat and the boat may not have been tuned right...

also, the keel on a j-29 frac is the same as on the j-30...the j-29 mast head has a different keel....

tim

#33 clamslapper

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:38 PM

clam....the gya phrf committee wanted to hit j-30's for about 9 seconds with a balanced rudder....

I owned mast head tonners until i bought #197 (my wife really liked it)...
other than sailing stars, thistles, lightings and snipes i had never sailed a big boat frac...
whole new paradign...had to rethink sail trim and a lot of other stuff....
i won't go back to masthead rig again...too much work changing sails all the time....

my first j-30 was set up terribly and sailed like shit...then my sail maker buddy who is a j-30 guru went over it tuning the rig and showing me how to trim it out right....
problem with helm went away....
as i said, we routinely carry a #1 ap all the way to 20kt up wind and the helm is light with just a enough weather helm to keep the feel of the boat...no struggle and the boat is well balanced...
going downwind in a good breeze is a rush...just make sure you're pointed in the right direction coming off a wave...have had 18kt on the speed log with the gps backing it up....

my newer j-30, hull #341, sails even better than the last one (hull in a lot better shape). I might add if one doesn't template the foils there's a possiblity that a boat may be wishy washy...
the only helm issue with a properly set up j-30 is power reaching and that's due to a lack of a balanced rudder...
other wise they are a delight to sail and i have sailed several down here on the coast as we have a fair sized fleet...

so your comments appear to come from a lack of experience in sailing the boat and the boat may not have been tuned right...

also, the keel on a j-29 frac is the same as on the j-30...the j-29 mast head has a different keel....

tim



Oh, sorry, I thought the 29's keels were 6" deeper than a J30's. Just out of curiosity, why would PHRF tag you for 9 seconds for having a balanced rudder? I wouldn't think it would make the boat faster or slower; rather, it would just mitigate the force on the helm somewhat.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a few days to shake down a J30. The 30 owners I know don't do nearly as much aggressive tuning to their rig as the J24 guys I sail against. It's basically the same exact rig, just oversized and with a more complex shroud/spreader setup. From what you say, I expect that a careful going-over would do wonders for the boat. Foils correctly shaped, mast in the right place, shrouds and forestay properly set up -- I see no reason it wouldn't go go go. I do know that a J24 with too tight a rig doesn't get out of its own way, and I expect that the J30 guys just leave them pretty well strapped in all conditions. Also, many 30 guys seem to have a couple/few hundred pounds of extra gear on there whereas the 24 guys are grinding off unused sections of bolts just to save a few grams here and there.

#34 phrf#!k

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:31 PM

I think the keels for all J-29's are deeper than the keel of the 30. All J/29's show the same draft in the spec.

Other than that, I think chaos!341 hits the nail on the head as far as handling and setup. With proper rig tune and weight on the rail (critical) the boat is quite well balanced and responsive.

One design is not as tightly regulated as the 24's, but the class seems pretty level. If boats are set up right and sailed well, any boat from any year can win at the North American champs. Sails are measured in, standard equipment (per a required equipment list) is checked, crews have to weigh in, critical rig dimensions are (usually) checked. But boats are not weighed and draft marks are not checked, so there is some variation in hull weights. When the NA champs are held anywhere on the east coast, turnout at the championship has been consistently 18 plus boats.

#35 chaos!341

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:29 PM

phrf....
Us j-30 guys down here in the central gulfcoast, GYA (from NO to Panama City)whether racing OD or phrf are constantly tuning their rigs for conditions....
often between races....
sailing a j-30 strapped is the kiss of death....
we leave everything at the dock besides required safety equipment and the sails we intend to use...
we are just as thorough as the j-24 guys are....and thats just for phrf....

you have to remember that the j-30 is just a big j-24...and that goes to rod jonstones wife because she didn't like getting wet in a j-24....
Rod told me that story himself many years ago....

tim

#36 clamslapper

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 08:50 PM

phrf....
Us j-30 guys down here in the central gulfcoast, GYA (from NO to Panama City)whether racing OD or phrf are constantly tuning their rigs for conditions....
often between races....
sailing a j-30 strapped is the kiss of death....
we leave everything at the dock besides required safety equipment and the sails we intend to use...
we are just as thorough as the j-24 guys are....and thats just for phrf....

you have to remember that the j-30 is just a big j-24...and that goes to rod jonstones wife because she didn't like getting wet in a j-24....
Rod told me that story himself many years ago....

tim



Out of curiosity, is it customary to move the keel forward on a J30 as almost all halfway serious J24s do? (We did it on our 24 way back when and it helped HUGELY.)

And I'm still wondering, why is there a PHRF for having a balanced rudder? If it's the same wetted area, who cares? I can see why it's illegal in OD, but wonder why PHRF imposes a penalty.

#37 backstayman2

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:13 PM

There is a J30 for sale somewhere in CT or NYC that doesn't have a keel or mast -- someone in the J30 fleet will know -- but is otherwise in superb condition. I believe due to Hurricane Sandy. Obviously a couple of dings due to the storm. If you could find a keel and a stick I am told the boat would be nearly free. There must be an old J29 or J30 keel (I think the J29 keels are very slightly deeper but fit the same bolt pattern) and mast (I believe it's the same mast as a J29 frac; could be wrong) lying around somewhere. I don't really see how a keel could just fall off and go missing and I don't know what the hull would be like afterwards. I believe there were some 29s and 30s at Raritan YC in NJ that were wrecked and possibly you could obtain needed parts from those guys.

#38 chaos!341

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:15 PM

I think the keels for all J-29's are deeper than the keel of the 30. All J/29's show the same draft in the spec.



the j-29 is .30' deeper than a j-30 or shade less than 3 3/4"....
factory specs the ballast as the same amount.....
that's for both the frac and the masthead....

frankly....my foil wizard says he uses the same templates for a j-29 as he does a j-30....
go figure...

i came close to buying a j-29 after i lost #197 to katrina but still had all my new sails and spares like a boom and spin pole...
couldn't find one with an inboard yanmar...

tim

#39 esoxproblem

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:13 PM

I started this thread, and I bought a J30. 

I scoured all the other threads out there of people like me considering a J30 before I bought.

So, I thought I should follow up and write something about the boat.

I freaking love this boat!  Seriously, if it blows enough just to feel powered up, you are competitive in PHRF.

We have not finished DFL once in our local club, and we have a few bullets.

The boat is virtually as fast as an Olson 30 to weather in 12 kts + if you have weight on the rail.

We sail with 8 or 9 which is a little outside the norm.

The only painful race was one that was 0 - 5 kts.  Humbling...

I have a wife who loves the boat now rather than tolerating the J29 or J24.

My kids think it is cool down below.

All is good, and I recommend the boat to all lookers.



#40 SA Lurker

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 09:10 PM

Congratulations!

Enjoy your boat!



#41 arcpix

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:51 PM

I started this thread, and I bought a J30. 

I scoured all the other threads out there of people like me considering a J30 before I bought.

So, I thought I should follow up and write something about the boat.

I freaking love this boat!  Seriously, if it blows enough just to feel powered up, you are competitive in PHRF.

We have not finished DFL once in our local club, and we have a few bullets.

The boat is virtually as fast as an Olson 30 to weather in 12 kts + if you have weight on the rail.

We sail with 8 or 9 which is a little outside the norm.

The only painful race was one that was 0 - 5 kts.  Humbling...

I have a wife who loves the boat now rather than tolerating the J29 or J24.

My kids think it is cool down below.

All is good, and I recommend the boat to all lookers.

We got ours (#24) last fall and have been using it since spring.  Like you, I Love this boat.  We keep asking ourselves "why did we wait so long?"  Built like tanks and, when taken care of, may last forever.  Back out again tomorrow.



#42 Switchtack

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:40 AM

One thing I keep reading here is that you need crew weight to get anywhere.  I am thinking about a J/30 as well but would be single and shorthanded most of the time.  Has anyone had any experience with singlehanding these boats?



#43 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:26 AM

One thing I keep reading here is that you need crew weight to get anywhere.  I am thinking about a J/30 as well but would be single and shorthanded most of the time.  Has anyone had any experience with singlehanding these boats?

yes.

big fun, but they can be a handful in breeze. you have to plan well ahead  for mark roundings and sail changes and shit, but

thats part of the challenge. I did all my clubs big boats races solo on my 30 for about 6 or 7 years. brought home a lot of pickle dishes against fully crewed boats. It was also a hoot to put up the #3 and a reef in the main, and just go blast back and forth across the bay all day when it was blowing 20+



#44 arcpix

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:48 PM

One thing I keep reading here is that you need crew weight to get anywhere.  I am thinking about a J/30 as well but would be single and shorthanded most of the time.  Has anyone had any experience with singlehanding these boats?

yes.
big fun, but they can be a handful in breeze. you have to plan well ahead  for mark roundings and sail changes and shit, but
thats part of the challenge. I did all my clubs big boats races solo on my 30 for about 6 or 7 years. brought home a lot of pickle dishes against fully crewed boats. It was also a hoot to put up the #3 and a reef in the main, and just go blast back and forth across the bay all day when it was blowing 20+

Had ours out last Saturday with full main and AP1 in breeze that went from mid teens to 23 plus. Boat really got up and went. A bit of a handful in a reach but fun all the way. Like I said before "why did I wait so long?"

#45 Switchtack

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 07:32 PM

Are you using an autopilot?  How does it handle the boat on that reach?

 

I'm really looking to get a boat soon, but there aren't many 30's around here.  There's a nice looking one in Seattle, I wonder how hard it is to transport down to the Newport Beach, CA area.

 

I'm also looked at an Olson 911se but it needs way too much work.



#46 arcpix

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 04:05 PM

Was not using an autopilot. Had full vrew on board. When we bought the boat a year ago we had to trailer it about 350 miles home. Used F 350 and had to get wide load permits in 2 states. Not too difficult, just slow. Never went over 50 mph. Obviously, you have to havecthe right trailer, which ours came with.

#47 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:55 AM

I used an autopilot when I had mine. it was ok upwind, pretty weak on reaches and better deep with a kite. I never used it for long stretches, just for a couple minutes at a time when I had to leave the cockpit for some reason.






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