52 replies to this topic

[Bob in NJ]

Trying to decide on a boat for PHRF racing, daysailing in western LIS. Want something reasonably comfortable, race non-spin 2-4 up (although sprit a plus), and favorable or at least reasonable rating. Tiller and outboard preferred. Advice, comments?

[Bad_Moose]

J80, definitely. I sail on one and it's a right laugh, such a fun boat to sail. You don't even need particularly good people to sail it, as long as you've got someone who can bump the kite up and someone who can drive it's fine. Obviously you'll do better with better people but it's not neccesary to sail the boat. They're quick and easy to get into the groove and also very simple. Everything is well laid out and well thought through. They're very spacious, you won't find yourself tripping over each other when going through manoeuvres so you end up with few fluff ups. Another big bonus is how seaworthy and safe they feel. We knocked ours flat a couple of times and it feels remarkably calm and controlled compared to other boats. Plenty of time to grab onto stuff and keep yourself on board. You don't have to sail it hard though. You can be conservative and the boat is very easy to sail, and at the same time you can push yourselves and make it a bit harder, either way though it never feels out of control or dangerous.

Things to look out for. Check that the hull is sound and that there are no cracks or signs of delamination. Obviously this is a standard thing with any boat but I know someone who had to have the the underside of the hull from the keel to the stern cut out and completely rebuilt because it had delaminated. There have been build quality issues so just be careful. Make sure you check all the little bits over too because that's where the cost stacks up. For instance, we had to pay to have a crack ground out of the rudder and then filled and laminated but the problem has returned, apparently due to an internal fault in the foil. Paying for the first fix and then a new rudder is a lot of cash. We also blew up the furler which was caused by the fact that when the boats were designed, they didn't have winches for the jib halyard. Now they do, but the furlers are the same and are therefore undersized. You'll end up buggering the bearings in the long run which is how our unit failed. It's worth your while checking it's in good condition.

[6924]

No kite ?

[Willy T]

J 80 is a fun one. I've been loving my antrim 27!

[MidPack]

I've sailed both many times, and I'd go with the J/80 hands down. But sailing downwind with the chute on a J/80 is more than half the fun of owning one. You can set and douse it without ever leaving the cockpit, what's not to like?

[dacapo]

The colgate 26 is a pig of a boat...

[Graciousj100]

Go with the J. You'll be able to tap into a lot of info and helpfull advice from many J80 owners? When it's time to go spin you'll have the sprit and when it's time to sell you shouldn't have a hard time. O and there pretty awesome to sail.

[RookieRacer]

J80 is a very fun and easy boat. You can start to do reasonably well with mediocre crew and driver (we're a testament to that!). You won't win meaningful one-design events without getting way up the curve, but if you're looking to do PHRF racing on WLIS, you'll easily be able to get out there and have fun on an 80, and after a very short time not embarass yourself. The fleet is growing a bit with newbies in the area, so you'll have other 80's to sail with/against.

Colgate 26 is a perfectly fine day sailer, but no easier to daysail than the 80 in my view, and the Colgate won't be tons of fun to race (quite slow, plus it flies the chute from a pole, so that's just one more crew/complication should you decide to race spinnaker).

PM me if you want more details re J80 on WLIS.

[jesposito]

Trying to decide on a boat for PHRF racing, daysailing in western LIS. Want something reasonably comfortable, race non-spin 2-4 up (although sprit a plus), and favorable or at least reasonable rating. Tiller and outboard preferred. Advice, comments?

Get the J80, if you are going to sail it on WLIS, you have a gift and a half of a rating. Sailing at 129 with a 134% loop hole genoa. If the Storks sailed the boat in that configuration they would NEVER lose.
Plus you have 2 sailmakers that will defend the rating one on the PHRF comm and the other one with lots of friends on the PHRF comm.

[MidPack]

Trying to decide on a boat for PHRF racing, daysailing in western LIS. Want something reasonably comfortable, race non-spin 2-4 up (although sprit a plus), and favorable or at least reasonable rating. Tiller and outboard preferred. Advice, comments?

Get the J80, if you are going to sail it on WLIS, you have a gift and a half of a rating. Sailing at 129 with a 134% loop hole genoa. If the Storks sailed the boat in that configuration they would NEVER lose.
Plus you have 2 sailmakers that will defend the rating one on the PHRF comm and the other one with lots of friends on the PHRF comm.

Wow, that is a gift. I raced at 114 PHRF with a 155% for 7 years...

[Bob in NJ]

I've sailed both many times, and I'd go with the J/80 hands down. But sailing downwind with the chute on a J/80 is more than half the fun of owning one. You can set and douse it without ever leaving the cockpit, what's not to like?

I understand on windward-leeward courses the asym can be at a disadvantage not being able to go as deep as a conventional spinny. How would a J 80 perform with a mast mounted pole and symetrical chute?

[jesposito]

Trying to decide on a boat for PHRF racing, daysailing in western LIS. Want something reasonably comfortable, race non-spin 2-4 up (although sprit a plus), and favorable or at least reasonable rating. Tiller and outboard preferred. Advice, comments?

Get the J80, if you are going to sail it on WLIS, you have a gift and a half of a rating. Sailing at 129 with a 134% loop hole genoa. If the Storks sailed the boat in that configuration they would NEVER lose.
Plus you have 2 sailmakers that will defend the rating one on the PHRF comm and the other one with lots of friends on the PHRF comm.

Wow, that is a gift. I raced at 114 PHRF with a 155% for 7 years...

They golf handicap over here, you have to find a boat like the J92 over which and been sailed by bad sailors for all these years so they just keep giving the boat time now at 111-114. 114 is the guy that really sucks. Same with the J80

[TimFordi550#87]

The colgate 26 is a pig of a boat...

Don't know if I'd go sayin that around HikeBitches or Mrs.Bitches, dacaps...come on down to Screwpile sometime and see for yourself.

Attached Files

•  easyButtn.jpg   50.01K   96 downloads

[dacapo]

The colgate 26 is a pig of a boat...

Don't know if I'd go sayin that around HikeBitches or Mrs.Bitches, dacaps...come on down to Screwpile sometime and see for yourself.

pig may be too strong a word...how about under canvased in light air vs. other similar sized boats??

[TimFordi550#87]

they do well in the light stuff, too....so I dunno. Probably due more to it being really well-sailed and rarely making mistakes on the course...plus a nifty take down line on their symm kite and silky smooth transitions around the corners. Tough boat to beat!

[Bump-n-Grind]

wavelength 24?

[RookieRacer]

Trying to decide on a boat for PHRF racing, daysailing in western LIS. Want something reasonably comfortable, race non-spin 2-4 up (although sprit a plus), and favorable or at least reasonable rating. Tiller and outboard preferred. Advice, comments?

Get the J80, if you are going to sail it on WLIS, you have a gift and a half of a rating. Sailing at 129 with a 134% loop hole genoa. If the Storks sailed the boat in that configuration they would NEVER lose.
Plus you have 2 sailmakers that will defend the rating one on the PHRF comm and the other one with lots of friends on the PHRF comm.

126, not 129.

Have you ever lost to a J80, other than to us that one time you were OCS?

[On the Hard]

I understand on windward-leeward courses the asym can be at a disadvantage not being able to go as deep as a conventional spinny. How would a J 80 perform with a mast mounted pole and symetrical chute?

I've never sailed a J80, but never heard of one with a traditional spin set up. I think half of the alure is that it is so easy to sail with a sprit. I don't think you'd want to switch to a symetirical. The sprit definitely helps it sail lower than it would if tacked to the bow. You may still lose a few degrees compared to symetrical, but from what I hear, your distance made good will be at least as good. And fast is fun. I'd love to own a J80.

[Merit 25]

they do well in the light stuff, too....so I dunno. Probably due more to it being really well-sailed and rarely making mistakes on the course...plus a nifty take down line on their symm kite and silky smooth transitions around the corners. Tough boat to beat!

They also take a small hit for an oversized main on the button. Seems to be working quite well for them.

And my 2 cents for the OP. If you're going to spend 40k on a boat under 30', get the Antrim.

[Bad_Moose]

You don't want to put a sym kite and a conventional pole on a J80 because they hate having weight too far forward in a lot of breeze. The fastest way to make them fall over is to have too much weight forward. It's fine with the asym kite because you never need to put someone on the bow, but obviously you'll need to with a sym and that might cause problems. I guess the asym is a bit of a disadvantage but you can rotate it so far round to windward that I personally don't think it's worth changing.

[jackdaw]

Doesn't the Colgate 26 use a non-overlapping jib?? That would make it a pig racing JAM.

EDIT - Oh , just saw they offer a turbo package for PHRF racing. Nevermind.

[Cement_Shoes]

Get the j-80 and use the asym kite. The j-80 kite is stupid simple to use. Even if you have never sailed with a spinnaker before, an experienced j-80 sailor can teach you and your crew how to be competent with it in a single afternoon. With the typical LIS breeze you are going to be so much happy racing with a kite than without. JAM downwind in 8 knots of true is for the birds. And once you get a little experience the J-80 doesn't get in the slightest bit "exciting" with the asym until the high teens in true wind speed.

[U20guy2]

If you want Colgate go to your local supermarket and buy a tube. I don't even really like Jboats and would highly suggest the j/80 over the toothpaste 26 any day if those are the only two boats your considering.

[Slim]

DART! DOY!

http://forums.sailin...howtopic=133113

[PurpleOnion]

DART! DOY!

http://forums.sailin...howtopic=133113

The DART makes a lot of sense for your needs. It seems like it would be perfect.
I love the Antrim 27, but I think you'll have trouble with the reduced crew you're planning to carry.
The J80 has the positive attributes that many have mentioned, but it's a little hard for me to justify the cost of used (or new) J80 when I see the cost of a new J70 or U20 which may do better with your planned crew size.
You haven't mentioned your budget which I'm sure someone will ask about. That may help people offer other suggestions.

[Mylar]

 ^{J80.jpg   26.91K   31 downloads
doesn't get much easier than this}

[MidPack]

Get the j-80 and use the asym kite. The j-80 kite is stupid simple to use. Even if you have never sailed with a spinnaker before, an experienced j-80 sailor can teach you and your crew how to be competent with it in a single afternoon. With the typical LIS breeze you are going to be so much happy racing with a kite than without. JAM downwind in 8 knots of true is for the birds. And once you get a little experience the J-80 doesn't get in the slightest bit "exciting" with the asym until the high teens in true wind speed.

+1. It is very easy to learn how to handle the asym on a J/80, and it's almost shocking how stable/easy to steer the J/80 is when sailing downwind. The keel would hum on my J/80 when the boat reached 9 knots or more. The faster we went, the louder the keel would hum. It was amusing, I hope J/Boats didn't "correct" the hum...

[dolphinmaster]

The FT 7.5 can offer ease of handling similar to the J80, it's faster, phrf rating is more sorted than before, and it's got a great B/D ratio for sailing short handed. It's economical as well.

[Bob in NJ]

"The DART makes a lot of sense for your needs. It seems like it would be perfect.
I love the Antrim 27, but I think you'll have trouble with the reduced crew you're planning to carry.
The J80 has the positive attributes that many have mentioned, but it's a little hard for me to justify the cost of used (or new) J80 when I see the cost of a new J70 or U20 which may do better with your planned crew size."


I want a design with more history, a reasonably sized fleet especially on the right coast, familiar to local sailmakers and an active owners group. I expect that the advent of the J70 will bring down the price of J80's.

[U20guy2]

"The DART makes a lot of sense for your needs. It seems like it would be perfect.
I love the Antrim 27, but I think you'll have trouble with the reduced crew you're planning to carry.
The J80 has the positive attributes that many have mentioned, but it's a little hard for me to justify the cost of used (or new) J80 when I see the cost of a new J70 or U20 which may do better with your planned crew size."


I want a design with more history, a reasonably sized fleet especially on the right coast, familiar to local sailmakers and an active owners group. I expect that the advent of the J70 will bring down the price of J80's.

Not to point out the obvious but the Toothpaste 26 doesn't have any of that ^ - so why did you even ask?

[Bob in NJ]

"The DART makes a lot of sense for your needs. It seems like it would be perfect.
I love the Antrim 27, but I think you'll have trouble with the reduced crew you're planning to carry.
The J80 has the positive attributes that many have mentioned, but it's a little hard for me to justify the cost of used (or new) J80 when I see the cost of a new J70 or U20 which may do better with your planned crew size."


I want a design with more history, a reasonably sized fleet especially on the right coast, familiar to local sailmakers and an active owners group. I expect that the advent of the J70 will bring down the price of J80's.

Not to point out the obvious but the Toothpaste 26 doesn't have any of that ^ - so why did you even ask?

Aside from other, J's the Colgate comes closer that anything else in this size range that I could think of. I would be appreciate other suggestions that fit the bill.

[U20guy2]

Sonar seems like a much better choice than the Colgate 26th to me.

[Steam Flyer]

The FT 7.5 can offer ease of handling similar to the J80, it's faster, phrf rating is more sorted than before, and it's got a great B/D ratio for sailing short handed. It's economical as well.

So, you gettin' one?
Looks like the Viper is not getting a foot hold around here after all; am eagerly awaiting the advent of a 'new' sportboat on the Neuse...

... still thinking about the FT75 since it's one of the two closest existing boats to what I really want, neither of them having a class on the East Coast...

Dunno why the Colgate 26 gets no love here on SA, seems like to be cool ya gotta hate on 'em. Never sailed one myself but have sailed in company with them many times and they seem OK to me.

FB- Doug

[stiletto]

wavelength 24?

Wavelength 24 is a great choice for the type of sailing you are looking to do but if you want to get outside of JAM racing at local club events - you have a tough time finding enough boats remotely close in your rating ban of 165 on WLIS. J80 is a good choice, S2 9.1 is a good boat as well. Lots of competitors 132 PHRF and under...

[PurpleOnion]

The FT 7.5 can offer ease of handling similar to the J80, it's faster, phrf rating is more sorted than before, and it's got a great B/D ratio for sailing short handed. It's economical as well.

So, you gettin' one?
Looks like the Viper is not getting a foot hold around here after all; am eagerly awaiting the advent of a 'new' sportboat on the Neuse...

... still thinking about the FT75 since it's one of the two closest existing boats to what I really want, neither of them having a class on the East Coast...

Dunno why the Colgate 26 gets no love here on SA, seems like to be cool ya gotta hate on 'em. Never sailed one myself but have sailed in company with them many times and they seem OK to me.

FB- Doug

If it doesn't plane, it will receive no love on SA. I sailed on one 12+ years ago and it was very good for what it was intended to do: serve as an instructional boat. The spinnaker is small and easy to control. It's reasonably responsive. Plenty of room to move around in the cockpit. The loads are easily handled by women and children. It's good for day sailing and the like. The PHRF rating in the mid 160's gives you an idea about its rate of travel through the water. Fine for a family, but few of the extreme and wannabe extreme sailors here are going to sing its praises. If you want to keep pace with the J24s, it's a more comfortable, better designed boat. If you want to step up a notch in speed and capabilities, the J80 makes a lot more sense.

[Leka]

Colgate 26 are perfect boats for what they were designed to do.
Sail training in a safe and roomy cockpit that can take 6 students and still have the Instructor stand behind the traveller and dump the main if need by a seperate sheet and not interfere with the main sheet.

Of course they will have trouble racing with FT7.5, Vipers and some J's, but they were not designed for that.

Perfect to learn on if you wanted to move up to bigger boats. Systems were designed to replicate bigger keel boats, which is why they have a spinaker pole, full width traveller and adjustable jib leads.

They can be fun boats to sail, especially if you are in a one design fleet.

Horses for courses!!

[dcbsheb]

they do well in the light stuff, too....so I dunno. Probably due more to it being really well-sailed and rarely making mistakes on the course...plus a nifty take down line on their symm kite and silky smooth transitions around the corners. Tough boat to beat!

They also take a small hit for an oversized main on the button. Seems to be working quite well for them.

And my 2 cents for the OP. If you're going to spend 40k on a boat under 30', get the Antrim.

Where have you seen any Antrims for sale??

[Bump-n-Grind]

wavelength 24?

Wavelength 24 is a great choice for the type of sailing you are looking to do but if you want to get outside of JAM racing at local club events - you have a tough time finding enough boats remotely close in your rating ban of 165 on WLIS. J80 is a good choice, S2 9.1 is a good boat as well. Lots of competitors 132 PHRF and under...

Thinking about buying a boat...J-80, Colgate 26 or ?

well, it seemed like the OP was also interested in other options to the J80 and colgate.. .and didn't really seem all that interested in racing with a kite at this point.
since he stated that he was racing 2-4 crew non-spin.

I got absolutely no dog in this furball.. but I've seen a wavelength out in our wed night races with 2-4 people racing every wed night for a few years now and it looks like they're having fun on their little boat. they've alternated between spin and non-spin over the years and are always in the hunt for a podium spot in each series. phrf c rating band is around 160 and up....

[Jerryd]

A strong possibility would be a Martin 242. Good price on used boat and a PHRF of 156.

[House Salad]

Sonar seems like a much better choice than the Colgate 26th to me.

True if you want to sail one design. The Sonar is a fantastic one design. A few have been sailed PHRF and some even had overlapping jibs added, but probably not the best idea for PHRF. The Colgate 26 is a good teaching boat. They have been used for match racing in the Knickerbocker Cup not too long ago, but I'm not a big fan of them. I'm not sure what the OP is thinking about with the kite. First he said non-spin, then he wants a symmetrical on a J80. All I can say is sailing any of these boats without a spinnaker is about as fun as having your friends hose you down with cold water.

[Merit 25]

Where have you seen any Antrims for sale??

One by a member of this site.
One on the northern Ches bay.
Another on the classifieds of this site.

Google is your friend.

[Mambo Kings]

J80 - Good choice for all the reasons mentioned.
Colgate 26 - Popular at sailing schools because it accomodates a great student to instructor ratio. Not very common on LIS. Wont have the same level of support from fellow owners.
Ultimate 20 - A worthy alternative to consider. Easy to trailer. Nice day sailer with small cabin. Lighter and faster than most small cabin day sailers. A little dated "look" compared to modern crop of sport boats but ideal for family racing. Passionate and supportive association of owners. Easy to sail. More fun than most PHRF boats.
Slonar - Nah. I raced one design for years....but for PHRF it just is not enough fun.
Melges 24 - If you are ready for a bit more of a challenge, there are some older M24s that are now being used by a more casual generation to race PHRF. there are 2 racing PHRF on LIS. Its more aggresive sailing skills than J80 or Ultimate 20.
Viper 640 - fastest growing class on LIS by a country mile. Lots of local one design racing with 25+ boats on the start line. Races PHRF in several LIS series. But its really aimed at the racing fraternity rather than family day sailing. Barry Parkin has crucified the PHRF rating in Captains Harbor. Like the Melges 24, it is further along the high performance scale than J80/Toothpaste 26 .
Corsair 24. This would be my #1 pick for day sailing and handicap racing. Easy to sail. Great for hanging out on for daysailing. Adults and kids love it. Super fast but super easy. PHRF is relatively boring compared to one design racing that you might as well have a boat that is a pleasure and gets you to the bar first. I dont own one.....but I like the boat and the larger cockpit racing version.

[Jerryd]

J80 - Good choice for all the reasons mentioned.
Colgate 26 - Popular at sailing schools because it accomodates a great student to instructor ratio. Not very common on LIS. Wont have the same level of support from fellow owners.
Ultimate 20 - A worthy alternative to consider. Easy to trailer. Nice day sailer with small cabin. Lighter and faster than most small cabin day sailers. A little dated "look" compared to modern crop of sport boats but ideal for family racing. Passionate and supportive association of owners. Easy to sail. More fun than most PHRF boats.
Slonar - Nah. I raced one design for years....but for PHRF it just is not enough fun.
Melges 24 - If you are ready for a bit more of a challenge, there are some older M24s that are now being used by a more casual generation to race PHRF. there are 2 racing PHRF on LIS. Its more aggresive sailing skills than J80 or Ultimate 20.
Viper 640 - fastest growing class on LIS by a country mile. Lots of local one design racing with 25+ boats on the start line. Races PHRF in several LIS series. But its really aimed at the racing fraternity rather than family day sailing. Barry Parkin has crucified the PHRF rating in Captains Harbor. Like the Melges 24, it is further along the high performance scale than J80/Toothpaste 26 .
Corsair 24. This would be my #1 pick for day sailing and handicap racing. Easy to sail. Great for hanging out on for daysailing. Adults and kids love it. Super fast but super easy. PHRF is relatively boring compared to one design racing that you might as well have a boat that is a pleasure and gets you to the bar first. I dont own one.....but I like the boat and the larger cockpit racing version.

and a Rocket 22

[Flying Fish]

Rocket 22 is a cool boat but only about 15 were ever built. Not much of a one design. A prior post mentions the Melges 24. More of these are showing up at reduced prices and sails that have seen little use are easy to aquire at half the original price. Plus you are only paying for three sails. Easy to trailer and exciting to race. PHRF will be seeing a bunch of these showing up for beer can racing as the prices continue to drop as the fleet ages

[Willy T]

Where have you seen any Antrims for sale??

One by a member of this site.
One on the northern Ches bay.
Another on the classifieds of this site.

Google is your friend.

#14 Anemone Tickler
#21 Head Rush
#15 Always Friday
I haven't yet learned the boat properly, but in the 20-25 Knot days, we'd cruise by the j80 with the chute up. Then fuck something up and they'd pass us again. There's something fun about doing 10+ knots with a main only!

The J80 is a very fun fast boat aswell. Harder to trailer than a 70. An 80 was actually my first choice (as the A27's were all out of my range until I found mine).

How about an M24?

[U20guy2]

Antrim 27 correctly crewed ie on the rail and sailed should crush a J80 in a big way in nearly all conditions. Christ the U20 fleet the one year we sailed on the outside at the SD NOOD literally sailed circles around the what 4 or maybe 3 J80's that came out to play. Even in light air we could surf the large pacific swells - heck at one point I had the kite through the spreaders pinned to the mast every wave as we drove by the lee surfing down the waves down wind. The Antrim 27 does the same thing only WAY WAY WAY FASTER! First 20+ knot run I ever did on a boat was on an Antrim 27. Not even in the same league.

As a roommate from the East coast living in SF told me after sailing the Antrim 27. Keep in mind this guy was J boat this and J boat that and everything J world etc etc hard core right off the east coast J anything type.

After doing the light bucket crewing on a Antrim 27 his first words were "Wholly shit the J boats I've sailed are like training bras - this is a whole different sailing game out here on the Antrim" HA HA yes it is way different!

[dcbsheb]

Where have you seen any Antrims for sale??

One by a member of this site.
One on the northern Ches bay.
Another on the classifieds of this site.

Google is your friend.

#14 Anemone Tickler
#21 Head Rush
#15 Always Friday
I haven't yet learned the boat properly, but in the 20-25 Knot days, we'd cruise by the j80 with the chute up. Then fuck something up and they'd pass us again. There's something fun about doing 10+ knots with a main only!

The J80 is a very fun fast boat aswell. Harder to trailer than a 70. An 80 was actually my first choice (as the A27's were all out of my range until I found mine).

How about an M24?

Thanks. The guy I sail with was looking at one (carbon mast, no runners, can't think of which hull number) at the end of the summer, but didn't pull the trigger fast enough. Of course the rest of us were pretty disappointed because like you said, they sound like a blast to sail. He has been threatening (promising) to buy something newer and faster for sometime, so when this boat popped up, we were all pretty excited. Been kind of keeping my eye out for another one for some time, but haven't looked too hard. Someone mentioned buying an Antrim in this thread, so I decided to ask the simple question.

[Tom Ray]

Dunno why the Colgate 26 gets no love here on SA

Because everyone here has done sooooo much more to promote sailing than that stupid Steve Toothpaste guy?

[Bill's Sock Puppet]

Saw the B/One at the boat show looks like a stripped down version of Farr 30 (very stripped) - a sail away price of 36k is attractive.

http://www.farrdesign.com/750.html

[tur102]

The FT 7.5 can offer ease of handling similar to the J80, it's faster, phrf rating is more sorted than before, and it's got a great B/D ratio for sailing short handed. It's economical as well.

So, you gettin' one?
Looks like the Viper is not getting a foot hold around here after all; am eagerly awaiting the advent of a 'new' sportboat on the Neuse...

... still thinking about the FT75 since it's one of the two closest existing boats to what I really want, neither of them having a class on the East Coast...

Dunno why the Colgate 26 gets no love here on SA, seems like to be cool ya gotta hate on 'em. Never sailed one myself but have sailed in company with them many times and they seem OK to me.

FB- Doug

Do you check the Farr 25 OD web ?

[Hobie Dog]

Antrim 27 correctly crewed ie on the rail and sailed should crush a J80 in a big way in nearly all conditions. Christ the U20 fleet the one year we sailed on the outside at the SD NOOD literally sailed circles around the what 4 or maybe 3 J80's that came out to play. Even in light air we could surf the large pacific swells - heck at one point I had the kite through the spreaders pinned to the mast every wave as we drove by the lee surfing down the waves down wind. The Antrim 27 does the same thing only WAY WAY WAY FASTER! First 20+ knot run I ever did on a boat was on an Antrim 27. Not even in the same league.

As a roommate from the East coast living in SF told me after sailing the Antrim 27. Keep in mind this guy was J boat this and J boat that and everything J world etc etc hard core right off the east coast J anything type.

After doing the light bucket crewing on a Antrim 27 his first words were "Wholly shit the J boats I've sailed are like training bras - this is a whole different sailing game out here on the Antrim" HA HA yes it is way different!

Yep well said, with the Antrim 27 you need 5 peeps that ALL know WTF is going on otherwise things can go bad in hurry. Awesome boats, miss mine!

The J/80 is a completely different animal, can be sailed with 3.

Bob in NJ has not given us a lot of data on price point and what feet he wants to race in (speed wise). But from his post it seems he wants a OD boat with an established fleet on the East Coast yet wants to race Non Spin in PHRF with a crew of 2-4!!! Go figure!

If that is the case then the J/80 certainly fits the bill with a non class legal 150 head sail. Going to need a spin pole as well to pole that sail out downwind if you are going to be competitive.

Oh and as a side note in W/L racing a J/80 I absolutely think a symmetrical kite on a traditional pole is going to be faster provided you have the crew work.

[Lightning14800]

_{Colgate 26 downwind in a blow..... Pretty quick for a pig. And rock solid as well.}

[U20guy2]

Looks glued to the water. LOL