267 replies to this topic

[DoRag]

Let's remember that the Socal calender centered on the N2E race. First, there was the Ahmanson, which served as a feeder race to Newport for N2E. Then N2E, which was followed by the Ton Cup/nee Yachting Cup in San Diego. Then the Lipton Cup. Then back up the coast for the CYC regatta in MDR and then North Sails/nee Ulman Sails Race Week in Long Beach. Fun times, all the major yacht clubs participated in hosting an event in the rotation, the sequencing enabled more boats to participate as the delivery hassles were minimized. The cornerstone was N2E. Great racing during this circuit, great friendships developed.

Then NOSA deceided that the race was about them and wearing blue blazers with white pants and adding NASBOAT classes and, and, and.

[Tom O'Keefe]

I agree a lot has changed since the late 70's early 80's in Southern California yacht racing. Not just NOSA. Choate 48's and SC50's were the big boats with the occassional 12M or MiniMaxi thrown in. But, the bulk of the numbers were smaller relatively less expensive, largely family oriented programs. These boats raced both inshore and offshore and ended their season at Big Boat. But, the competition started to go nuclear about the time the SC70's came on the scene. The Mid to late 80's probably saw the most participation in the Southern California circuit lead by quite a healthy fleet of 70 raters. That's when specialization, an unlimited budget war and professionalism burnt out and divided those that left the N2E anchored SoCal Yacht Racing schedule.

Fleet sizes and participation have shrunk because there are a few teams that usually dominate. It's rare that family programs get to win. Yes, the economy has exacerbated the trend. And yes, there was quite a period of time that the NOSA BoD were unresponsive. But, the Ensenada Race was always about the party or why was it originally the Cinco de Mayo race? The hardcore racing was always all the other events surrounding N2E.

[DoRag]

I agree a lot has changed since the late 70's early 80's in Southern California yacht racing. Not just NOSA. Choate 48's and SC50's were the big boats with the occassional 12M or MiniMaxi thrown in. But, the bulk of the numbers were smaller relatively less expensive, largely family oriented programs. These boats raced both inshore and offshore and ended their season at Big Boat. But, the competition started to go nuclear about the time the SC70's came on the scene. The Mid to late 80's probably saw the most participation in the Southern California circuit lead by quite a healthy fleet of 70 raters. That's when specialization, an unlimited budget war and professionalism burnt out and divided those that left the N2E anchored SoCal Yacht Racing schedule.

Fleet sizes and participation have shrunk because there are a few teams that usually dominate. It's rare that family programs get to win. Yes, the economy has exacerbated the trend. And yes, there was quite a period of time that the NOSA BoD were unresponsive. But, the Ensenada Race was always about the party or why was it originally the Cinco de Mayo race? The hardcore racing was always all the other events surrounding N2E.

For the vast majority of people, the party was a sideshow. Not the main event. I'm surprised that you think that. It was originally on the Cinco de Mayo date as Mexico was quite colorful during that festival. It had to be moved when the bikers and other undesireables went to Ensenada to disrupt things and the "party" became quite hardcore.

Fleet sizes have shrtunk because the sport isn't as much fun as it was in the years gone by. In part, due to the manipulations like NOSA. Same thing has happened to YCs as the cruisers and motor boat types have moved in and taken over.

[Wash]

I am just posting passionately here that it is only a matter of time that one of your powerboaters takes out a racing sailboat.

It is just a matter of time--

[Bill Gibbs]

Yes, the economy has exacerbated the trend.

Worse than that, I'd say the economy is the number one factor in both N2E participation and sail boat racing in general. The curves are stunningly parallel.
Sailing popularity vs TV, video games, & internet forums is a lessor factor. The NOSA BoD even less.

I am just posting passionately here that it is only a matter of time that one of your powerboaters takes out a racing sailboat

You are probably right. And that sailboat will not have been maintaining an adequate watch.
Even sailboats take out sailboats. Check out Extreme racing or the AC45's. There are risks in this sport we love.

[sumpin]

lot of good POVs. I'm not so bothered by powerboats, I've owned a couple. What I don't like is this crazy group of people trying to twist an overnight SAILboat race into a part cruise, part fishing trip, part sailboat race, part "whatever it takes to get the headcount up"
There is still plenty of good racing to be had but as Do Rag said (and maybe this is living in the past) N2E was an anchor event for many other regatta's, Ahmanson et al. All of us with jobs and families could prioritize our time around these events and knew to expect a good time. Now we have the current configuration N2E, Ahmanson now a pursuit race, etc etc

Sure the economy doesn't help and there is a general decline in big boat sailing. SAILboat racing has become AYSO.
"hey come do N2E and get your participation ribbon" Racing is NOT for everyone. Let the cruisers, cruise

[DoRag]

Yes, the economy has exacerbated the trend.

Worse than that, I'd say the economy is the number one factor in both N2E participation and sail boat racing in general. The curves are stunningly parallel.
Sailing popularity vs TV, video games, & internet forums is a lessor factor. The NOSA BoD even less.

I am just posting passionately here that it is only a matter of time that one of your powerboaters takes out a racing sailboat

You are probably right. And that sailboat will not have been maintaining an adequate watch.
Even sailboats take out sailboats. Check out Extreme racing or the AC45's. There are risks in this sport we love.

Bill, you say there is a stunning correlkation between the economy and N2E participation. I say exactlyt the opposite.

In a macro sense, participation by racers has steadily declined since the peak in 1983, when there were 675 entries. The year the race began, there were 117 racers. In 2011, there were only 119 racers entered - about teh same as in 1948!!!!!

Now, let's look at the data for the years 2005 to present. In 2005, there were 311 racers entered. That number declined every year to a level of 119 in 2011. Again, the numbers of racers declined every year since 2005!

What happened to the conomy during that period? In '06, it grew 2.7%, in '07 it grew 1.9%, in '08 it "grew" 0.3%, in '09 it declined 3.1%, in '10 it grew 2.4% and in '11 it grew 1.8%. So, Bill suggests there is a high correlation between the economy and racer participation. In fact, racer participation declined EVERY YEAR SINCE '05, while the economy declined only one year.

These data were very interesting from an other perspective. Cruising classes constituted 26% of the 311 entries in 2005. In '06, cruisers gew to 33%, in '07, cruisers grew to 35%, in '08 cruisers grew to 38%, in '09 cruisers grew to 44%. Imagine that! Cruisers constituted almost one half of the race in '09. This trend mitigated somewhat as cruisers constituted 32% in 2011.

So, no Bill, the correlation is amnything but "stunning." You appear to be blaming the decline on George W Bush.......

No, NOSA has turned the event over to cruisers. Nice job!

[BobJ]

When you drop sails and head into the harbor, the boats you should see are the faster boats in the fleet. How does it make you and your crew feel when you realize that instead of the faster boats, you're seeing the "competitors" who motored?


Often pruning is necessary before things start to grow again.

[Tom O'Keefe]

I still don't get it. How does being exclusive instead of inclusive raise the quality the event? Not everyone was brought up racing sailboats. I know several race programs that the owner started racing later in life and got interested in racing after being exposed to events like N2E. If N2E was all about hardcore racing, they should move the date into March for more breeze. Then the small boats might have a chance to correct out. Instead we've got a few light air maxisleds and multis that are trying to finish before the breeze shuts off. Not that I don't enjoy and appreciate racing on those boats. I just think we should encourage better seamanship practices by being inclusive rather than exclusive.

[Dude]

I would give the Coral a couple more years. The hole concept was to make people feel safer with bus rides to and from the event, most participants staying within the resort area and a stronger presence of security. If you want to go down town, then go down town. We should give it 3 more years at least.

As for the cruising class starting their engines, who cares. The bottom line, the more people using their boats the better. If the racing thing catches their eye so much the better for the sport. I do like the idea of no autopilots while the engine is on.

SAILboat RACING...not MOTORboat RACING.
Pick a sport.

It is just pathetic to keep inventing things to keep participation numbers up.

I know you want to sell boats and all but have them "practice race" to the island and back in there own classes. Hell, start a cruising race ..

The key is "Go Boating". The more people that participate the better. I can think of about 20 people who fist participated as crew on a Cruising class boat. Now they are racing in all club events and a couple of them have even purchased their own boat. One of the great features of sailing is you get to compete with the pro's or belly up next to them at the bar.

For a sport to grow, you should not bash the beginners. Give them the most press, the most awards, proper education and continue to promote boating.

[sumpin]

I still don't get it. How does being exclusive instead of inclusive raise the quality the event? Not everyone was brought up racing sailboats. I know several race programs that the owner started racing later in life and got interested in racing after being exposed to events like N2E. If N2E was all about hardcore racing, they should move the date into March for more breeze. Then the small boats might have a chance to correct out. Instead we've got a few light air maxisleds and multis that are trying to finish before the breeze shuts off. Not that I don't enjoy and appreciate racing on those boats. I just think we should encourage better seamanship practices by being inclusive rather than exclusive.

me too. BUT without motor boats. we all had to do our first race, first N2E, first everything..if you want to SAILboat race then do it

[sumpin]

I would give the Coral a couple more years. The hole concept was to make people feel safer with bus rides to and from the event, most participants staying within the resort area and a stronger presence of security. If you want to go down town, then go down town. We should give it 3 more years at least.

As for the cruising class starting their engines, who cares. The bottom line, the more people using their boats the better. If the racing thing catches their eye so much the better for the sport. I do like the idea of no autopilots while the engine is on.

SAILboat RACING...not MOTORboat RACING.
Pick a sport.

It is just pathetic to keep inventing things to keep participation numbers up.

I know you want to sell boats and all but have them "practice race" to the island and back in there own classes. Hell, start a cruising race ..

The key is "Go Boating". The more people that participate the better. I can think of about 20 people who fist participated as crew on a Cruising class boat. Now they are racing in all club events and a couple of them have even purchased their own boat. One of the great features of sailing is you get to compete with the pro's or belly up next to them at the bar.

For a sport to grow, you should not bash the beginners. Give them the most press, the most awards, proper education and continue to promote boating.

nobody is bashing beginners. Please read. Maybe if I were selling boats I would have a different POV. You want to really learn what SAILboat racing is all about then do it. Not some idiotic hybrid "race". maybe we can have a 10 HP, 14 foot bass boat class

[BobJ]

He's also saying the beginners should get the most press and the most awards. Set that bar high, yep.

[sumpin]

AYSO .. where everyones a winner.

Sorry Dude. Life needs wins and losses and all that goes with it.

[Tom O'Keefe]

Again, because of the preponderance of light wind in late April the floating furniture palaces would not be able to get to Ensenada in time. The fair weather window also attracts boat owners with less experience. If N2E was seriously about racing, it would move to early March. But, it's about exposing as many people as possible to distance racing light with the emphasis on fun not hardcore competition. There are plenty of events on the calendar that the competition is a lot more fair and intense.

[BobJ]

". . . it's about exposing as many people as possible to distance racing light with the emphasis on fun not hardcore competition."

Is that in the NOR? If so then there's no need for the debate. If not, it should be.

[Mud sailor]

How many boats and/or owners have moved from cruiser class to racing class since motoring was allowed? Should be easy to work out.

[DoRag]

I still don't get it. How does being exclusive instead of inclusive raise the quality the event? Not everyone was brought up racing sailboats. I know several race programs that the owner started racing later in life and got interested in racing after being exposed to events like N2E. If N2E was all about hardcore racing, they should move the date into March for more breeze. Then the small boats might have a chance to correct out. Instead we've got a few light air maxisleds and multis that are trying to finish before the breeze shuts off. Not that I don't enjoy and appreciate racing on those boats. I just think we should encourage better seamanship practices by being inclusive rather than exclusive.

The N2E race never was and never will be "hard core." Anyone is more than welcome to sign up, Hoist some sails and have at it. But race. learn to race. Learn seamanship. Man up.

The race is now 32% to 44% cruisers over the last seven years.

Engines. Hibachies. Facial hair. RVs....

Thanks for that NOSA!

Let's return N2E to it's heritage. Ban NOSA! Ban RV parks!

[Tom O'Keefe]

Not nearly as many people are willing or can afford to spend 5-1/2 to 6 days on a N2E. In the 80's and earlier the percentage of the fleet that spent 48 to 60 hours just racing down was pretty significant. Now, taking off on Thursday and being back in the berth on Sunday is pretty much the norm.

A big factor in why cruisers are allowed their motor time is to ensure a larger percentage of the fleet can participate with in that 4 day window.

[Somebody Else]

Hey! Easy there, DoRag!

We clamped a Magma BBQ to the stern pulpit of the Mumm 30 for N2E 2010. That's as near to a hibachi as no matter! There was just no way to properly prepare filet mignon down below. Given the choice between dragging along the weight of the Magma versus YACL (Yet Another CostCo Lasagna), I was more than willing to accept that compromise.

Negative, though, on the professor beards.
Just no.

[DoRag]

Hey! Easy there, DoRag!

We clamped a Magma BBQ to the stern pulpit of the Mumm 30 for N2E 2010. That's as near to a hibachi as no matter! There was just no way to properly prepare filet mignon down below. Given the choice between dragging along the weight of the Magma versus YACL (Yet Another CostCo Lasagna), I was more than willing to accept that compromise.

Negative, though, on the professor beards.
Just no.

Yes, I remember using a Magma on a quarter tonner - the deck started smoking so we deep sixed the damn thing (which had four steaks almost done...). Cruisers know how do cook like that, racers don't.

[Tom O'Keefe]

Then you're missing out. I can recall steaks on a hibachi grill on a N/M68 in route to Cabo. Fresh backed chocolate chip cookies as well. Ice cream and those curly french cookies on Taxi Dancer in the Molokai. And, Dennis Durgan telling us about his menu on the last TransPac. Freeze dried is not the only alternative.

[sumpin]

Not nearly as many people are willing or can afford to spend 5-1/2 to 6 days on a N2E. In the 80's and earlier the percentage of the fleet that spent 48 to 60 hours just racing down was pretty significant. Now, taking off on Thursday and being back in the berth on Sunday is pretty much the norm.

A big factor in why cruisers are allowed their motor time is to ensure a larger percentage of the fleet can participate with in that 4 day window.

I know and we all did that!! so what's your point? You want to try your hand at something? then make the time. Do it. Learn the craft. I mean really, what's next.
It is not about being exclusive or inclusive.
Do we start shaving off mountain tops?

[Dude]

AYSO .. where everyones a winner.

Sorry Dude. Life needs wins and losses and all that goes with it.

What, is this the 3rd year we have had this disagreement? Time to ask you again, what have you done for sailing this year?

[sumpin]

plenty

I get out on the water all over the place, all year around and I work and have a family, etc etc. big boats and little boats. OD and PF. bouy and offshore.

Sponsor and enthusiastic supporter of kids

lots of R/C work

give to the local charities and sailing foundations. time and money


What I am not doing is promoting any gimmick to get people on the water so I can sell them some 30 year old IOR pig or "racer/cruiser" or whatever else is available to POWERrace N2E.

you?

BTW, I do not disagree with your point to get people out on the water and in fact have enjoyed promoting the sport. The point is motor boating is not sailboat racing. Just as ice hockey is not curling.

next?

PERIOD

[Wash]

Additional Suggestions:

• Create a committee of experienced successful sailors who also run races themselves to administer the class breaks-- This has been a real frustrating issue over the years
• Go to one big starting line with 2, 3 or 4 so mid mark boats and let it rip--
• Consider a starting window of a few days over a week to ensure a fast race- Or move the start date to a time of year with traditionally better winds-
• Start the powerboats a day ahead of the racing sailboats - (Assuming that they have not been eliminated from entering)
• Move the finish and festivities back to the city of Ensenada - The race elapsed time records demand this---
• Get rid of the physical race packet check in system altogether-- do it on-line
• Inspect boats before the start-- inspections in Ensenada are not fair as a huge part of the fleet turns and burns now---
• Employ race tracking technology on the participants---
• More to come

[Bill Gibbs]

Additional Suggestions:

• Create a committee of experienced successful sailors who also run races themselves to administer the class breaks-- This has been a real frustrating issue over the years
• Go to one big starting line with 2, 3 or 4 so mid mark boats and let it rip--
• Consider a starting window of a few days over a week to ensure a fast race- Or move the start date to a time of year with traditionally better winds-
• Start the powerboats a day ahead of the racing sailboats - (Assuming that they have not been eliminated from entering)
• Move the finish and festivities back to the city of Ensenada - The race elapsed time records demand this---
• Get rid of the physical race packet check in system altogether-- do it on-line
• Inspect boats before the start-- inspections in Ensenada are not fair as a huge part of the fleet turns and burns now---
• Employ race tracking technology on the participants---
• More to come

Just offering my personal opinions here...
Better class breaks? Who can argue. Except different groups of experienced sailors don't necessarily agree. At least the Classes are closer than any other race of the year.
One big line? I like this if only for the drama.
Flexible starting date? I think this is a no go for people with day jobs (like me) who have to schedule time off.
Time with better wind? Sounds simple but the weather is changing. Still worth a shot? Squeezing into the full coastal race schedule is always an issue.
in 2011 Cruisers started last. In 2012 they started an hour ahead of the first sail racers, who themselves started in reverse order, adding another hour before the fastest boats. A day early doesn't seem a bad idea.
Move the finish line & party back down town? If the majority rules, than the majority seem to like the Hotel Coral better.
On -line check in and race packets? I like it.
After race boat inspections were eliminated in 2012 for the reason you mention.
Race tracking - A popular request.

[DoRag]

Was the participation increase in the racing classes or in the cruising classes? To get more participation you folks could focus on the cruising clubs, perhaps have safety lectures, and, for sure, engine tune up presentations.

Checking the numbers, I find I overstated the overall increase from 2011 to 2012, up 21% is more accurate. Up a bit more for racers than cruisers. Thanks for the suggestions on how to increase cruiser participation. I think they add a nice diversity to this event at about 32% of participants, and carry their proportion of the event costs. But I think I speak for most of the board when I say that our first priority is increasing racer participation.

According to the NOSA published figures, Cruisers constituted 26% of entrants in 2005. In 2006 that rose to 33%, in 2007, it rose to 35%, in 2008 it rose yet again to 38%. In 2009, cruisers constituted a full 44% of all entrants!!!!!! That number dropped to 39% in 2010, and 32% in 2011.

As to your "nice diversity" comment, that is your opinion. Diversity for the sake of diversity is hardly a worthwhile objective.

[Wash]

Additional Suggestions: (And thank you for volunteering for a role in a volunteer organization that is tough)

• Implement a scoring system (Such as Yachtscoring.com) that allows for real time data that the racers, family, fans and friends can access to see the finish times in real time.
• Post the results of the race in real time- i.e. Yachtscoring.com NOSA has been late for days in getting results published-- frustrating- BTW, I do this for multiple regattas I have worked over the past 12 years so have experience at this-- it can be done!
• More to come!

[inquiring Mind]

The light air predominant late April/ early May scheduling of the race has always been frustrating to me. The fickle nature of where you'll find a lane of pressure in the early morning hours inside Todos Santos Bay has quite often made this race more like a game of chutes and ladders. I can't count how many Mexico (Cabo/ PV) races I've been on that we've screamed past Ensenada in the late evening thinking now would be a much better time to run a Newport to Ensenada if the goal were hard core racing. But, I decided a lo ng time ago that N2E is more about getting people exposed to sailing and the cross border experience, than it was about being the penultimate yacht race of the Southern California yacht racing calendar.

In the good days, N2E had 600 racers participating. In that sense, it clearly was the most popular race in SoCal. And everyone raced!

So these guys were serious racers? Come on DR, this race has always been a party for some people. I have three gold pennants and several blues to add, and I can live with the cruisers. You guys take yourselves too seriously.

[Bill Gibbs]

Additional Suggestions: (And thank you for volunteering for a role in a volunteer organization that is tough)

• Implement a scoring system (Such as Yachtscoring.com) that allows for real time data that the racers, family, fans and friends can access to see the finish times in real time.
• Post the results of the race in real time- i.e. Yachtscoring.com NOSA has been late for days in getting results published-- frustrating- BTW, I do this for multiple regattas I have worked over the past 12 years so have experience at this-- it can be done!
• More to come!

You're welcome.
And I like these suggestions.

[DoRag]

The light air predominant late April/ early May scheduling of the race has always been frustrating to me. The fickle nature of where you'll find a lane of pressure in the early morning hours inside Todos Santos Bay has quite often made this race more like a game of chutes and ladders. I can't count how many Mexico (Cabo/ PV) races I've been on that we've screamed past Ensenada in the late evening thinking now would be a much better time to run a Newport to Ensenada if the goal were hard core racing. But, I decided a lo ng time ago that N2E is more about getting people exposed to sailing and the cross border experience, than it was about being the penultimate yacht race of the Southern California yacht racing calendar.

In the good days, N2E had 600 racers participating. In that sense, it clearly was the most popular race in SoCal. And everyone raced!

So these guys were serious racers? Come on DR, this race has always been a party for some people. I have three gold pennants and several blues to add, and I can live with the cruisers. You guys take yourselves too seriously.

That particuliar boat usually won it's class.

Whether serious racers or not, the point is to sail to Ensenada. Not motor.

[Wash]

Some more suggestions:

• Create a "Voice of the Ensenada Race" embracing VHF where among other things:
• at the start classes are informed at their warning signal who is and which starting line they are starting on throughout the sequence- (Would rather see one line though and all start at the same time)
• Finishes are announced in real time- Could do every 20 minutes or so of the boats that finished in the previous 20 minutes. (or on whatever schedule or live)
• Have this "Voice" moderate/host an evening chat and a next morning chat with the fleet for an hour.

[munt]

March, 2012, interestingly enough, last year's Border Run, the day before the race, perfect 15-18 kts. blowing straight down the course all day. Day of race, even the most hardcore, light air sailors drop out due to absolute 0 wind. Day after race, 15 kts. straight down the course again. Spring in Socal. March, April, May, you might get a gale, you might get 24 hours of dead calm. Try to predict nature, meet Mrs. Chaos.

[VwaP]

Additional Suggestions: (And thank you for volunteering for a role in a volunteer organization that is tough)

• Implement a scoring system (Such as Yachtscoring.com) that allows for real time data that the racers, family, fans and friends can access to see the finish times in real time.
• Post the results of the race in real time- i.e. Yachtscoring.com NOSA has been late for days in getting results published-- frustrating- BTW, I do this for multiple regattas I have worked over the past 12 years so have experience at this-- it can be done!
• More to come!

You're welcome.
And I like these suggestions.

Add a fishing tournament to the motoring class

Venus XoXoXo

[condor]

<sub>So I get the NOSA e-mail about the race, and the discount for entering in December (which I will probably do...). In the pics is one of a sailboat, one of the Coral, and one of the trophy ceremony.

The trophy ceremony pic is outdoors, not under a tent, and is of the Bahia! Guess there weren't any good pics from this year's ceremony...</sub>

[Bill Gibbs]

_{The trophy ceremony pic is outdoors, not under a tent, and is of the Bahia! Guess there weren't any good pics from this year's ceremony...}

Maybe NOSA's just reminding us of all the N2E history. There were a lot of good times at the Bahia. No reason to limit pictures to just last year.

[realestatebroker]

Motoring should be BANNED. Complete joke. Powering division should be removed from race and partner with Baja HaHa. Start the April Baja Haha on Thursday to get the powerboats off the course and into Hussongs where they belong.

[DoRag]

Motoring should be BANNED. Complete joke. Powering division should be removed from race and partner with Baja HaHa. Start the April Baja Haha on Thursday to get the powerboats off the course and into Hussongs where they belong.

Exactly. If you want to race - you must sail. No autopilots.

It doesn't matter if the entries in the N2E race drop. It will revive when sailing revives.

NOSA should stop bastardizing the N2E Race.

Free the N2E race from the shackles of NOSA!!!!!!

Occupy NOSA!!!!

[Bill Gibbs]

Wash - regarding your suggestion for real time resulting. I raised it at the bod meeting last night. I was surprised we had it last year. They just didnt publicize it I guess. Any one with web access can get results as boats finish.

[Mud sailor]

Somebody needs to clean up the results pages, if I sort by finish time I get all the dnf boats first! and the cruiser class is the first listed in it' 'native' format!

I should not have to export to a spreadsheet to get a 'clean' set of results.

They should be pdf listed by class, pdf list overall and then a searchable list for a specific boat name.

[Bill Gibbs]

Somebody needs to clean up the results pages, if I sort by finish time I get all the dnf boats first! and the cruiser class is the first listed in it' 'native' format!

I should not have to export to a spreadsheet to get a 'clean' set of results.

They should be pdf listed by class, pdf list overall and then a searchable list for a specific boat name.

passed along with improvements promised for 2013.

[walterbshaffer]

I tend to agree about the cruising classes, but perhaps not as stridently. Maybe no gun, horn or trophy for those boats as they are not really racing but more participating. (or put dorag in charge of the trophies for the cruising classes and see what they get)

I sometimes wonder if a start window would be appreciated by the racers, say 11AM Thurs through 11AM Friday? Might help boats be able to particiapte plus add the strategy of picking both a weather window & a start time most advantageous to themselves. I know I would like that, but have the motorboat classes all start at a certain time as such strategies would not be a consideration for them.

Maybe also have the racing particiapants get free beer at the post race but have the cruisers pay per drink.

In effect make the race more attractive than the cruise and widen the time window to further broaden appeal.

[sumpin]

plus 1

[DryArmour]

N2E has always been one of my favorite races. It isn't hard core but is one of the few races in Southern California that takes you a few miles off the coast and the roller coaster ride from the Coronados to Todos Santos on good wind years is pretty good by SO CAL standards.

The local scene and participation drop off... I like a good dive bar as much as anyone but as I have grown older (Wiser?...maybe, maybe not) I have the sense that things in Mexico just aren't the easy going $7 lobster tails, $1 Coronas and generally friendly locals like they used to be. The last few times I have done the race I have preferred to turn and burn and get back to my kids and family ASAP. I have traveled all over the world and it is never pleasant feeling like you need to keep one eye over your shoulder walking through town.

I did not go to the Coral but the folks I spoken to said it was a vast improvement with the exception of obtaining a beer or 7.

With regard to Cruisers... N2E needs entries. It doesn't bother me in the least that some people playing by a different set of rules beats me down to Ensenada by running their engine. The Grand Banks Committee boat probably will beat me down there as well and it is kinda the same thing in my mind. They are NOT part of MY RACE.

The economy and participation. Anyone who thinks there isn't a direct correlation between the local economy and sailing here in So Cal doesn't live here and doesn't see the reality of what is going on. While the economy may be growing statistically on a national basis a lot of programs were funded in large part by increasing home values and HELOCs. HELOCs are dead and people are so upside down on their home values that the money stream is gone. A lot of people here that actively participate in sailboat racing are engineers. As of yesterday, Boeing has put their two Seal Beach buildings (Very large) up for sale and the employees can select the UK, South Carolina or Oklahoma to relocate to. Not sure how all of those employees will sell their homes and move as the LTV ratios are negative but that is the decision Boeing has made and I believe it will make a fairly large dent in the sailing economy when combined with the ending of the C-17 project next door in Long Beach.

Bill Gibbs is a good Dude. His heart is in the right place and he has started early to try and learn how he can best guide NOSA to once again give the racers what they want by coming on SA with his REAL NAME and asking. The feedback has for the most part been pretty good and I think the race will steadily improve if NOSA takes the suggestions to heart and implements them as best possible.

Personally I think Hobie Alter had it right. The popularity of his boats was not derived from some really great design but rather he put on one hell of a party after racing. The girls were hot (Bo Derrick among them, her Dad worked at Hobie) and there wasn't one girl for every ten guys. The music was good. There was alcohol involved and the end result made the guys and girls happy in the morning (For the most part). As petty as it seems, you need to put on a good quality race with an party afterwards that is a MUST ATTEND for all of the reasons stated above. Get that right and people will participate in larger numbers IMHO.

Your mileage may vary...

[DA-WOODY]

N2E has always been one of my favorite races. It isn't hard core but is one of the few races in Southern California that takes you a few miles off the coast and the roller coaster ride from the Coronados to Todos Santos on good wind years is pretty good by SO CAL standards.

The local scene and participation drop off... I like a good dive bar as much as anyone but as I have grown older (Wiser?...maybe, maybe not) I have the sense that things in Mexico just aren't the easy going $7 lobster tails, $1 Coronas and generally friendly locals like they used to be. The last few times I have done the race I have preferred to turn and burn and get back to my kids and family ASAP. I have traveled all over the world and it is never pleasant feeling like you need to keep one eye over your shoulder walking through town.

I did not go to the Coral but the folks I spoken to said it was a vast improvement with the exception of obtaining a beer or 7.

With regard to Cruisers... N2E needs entries. It doesn't bother me in the least that some people playing by a different set of rules beats me down to Ensenada by running their engine. The Grand Banks Committee boat probably will beat me down there as well and it is kinda the same thing in my mind. They are NOT part of MY RACE.

The economy and participation. Anyone who thinks there isn't a direct correlation between the local economy and sailing here in So Cal doesn't live here and doesn't see the reality of what is going on. While the economy may be growing statistically on a national basis a lot of programs were funded in large part by increasing home values and HELOCs. HELOCs are dead and people are so upside down on their home values that the money stream is gone. A lot of people here that actively participate in sailboat racing are engineers. As of yesterday, Boeing has put their two Seal Beach buildings (Very large) up for sale and the employees can select the UK, South Carolina or Oklahoma to relocate to. Not sure how all of those employees will sell their homes and move as the LTV ratios are negative but that is the decision Boeing has made and I believe it will make a fairly large dent in the sailing economy when combined with the ending of the C-17 project next door in Long Beach.

Bill Gibbs is a good Dude. His heart is in the right place and he has started early to try and learn how he can best guide NOSA to once again give the racers what they want by coming on SA with his REAL NAME and asking. The feedback has for the most part been pretty good and I think the race will steadily improve if NOSA takes the suggestions to heart and implements them as best possible.

Personally I think Hobie Alter had it right. The popularity of his boats was not derived from some really great design but rather he put on one hell of a party after racing. The girls were hot (Bo Derrick among them, her Dad worked at Hobie) and there wasn't one girl for every ten guys. The music was good. There was alcohol involved and the end result made the guys and girls happy in the morning (For the most part). As petty as it seems, you need to put on a good quality race with an party afterwards that is a MUST ATTEND for all of the reasons stated above. Get that right and people will participate in larger numbers IMHO.

Your mileage may vary...

Soo True & Major Kadoos to Billy for trying to Translate Anarchy Speak into Board Room Input & Back

What I hear the Pre-Party has been givin the Room to Grow and be All it Can Be "Bigger than Ever"

No-One Knows why somethings Work and Take Off like a Rocket while other things dont

I have heard some really good things in place to make the Pre Party Work

in the end it's how it goes when it happes that makes all the difference

The N2E is REALLY Trying (End to End) and "That Is a GOOD THING" !!!!!!!

[inquiring Mind]

Very good analysis, Mark. I agree about Bill and his effort to make the race as good as it can be. I have never felt threatened by the cruiser classes; let them enjoy their brand of fun.

[Mud sailor]

I have no problem with the Cruiser class but how about having some mechanism to push people towards the racer classes over time.....

not sure what it would be???

[DoRag]

Very good analysis, Mark. I agree about Bill and his effort to make the race as good as it can be. I have never felt threatened by the cruiser classes; let them enjoy their brand of fun.

Actually, his analysis was flawed.

For example, the comparison to the strategy Hobie implemented is not valid. Hobie (intentionally or accidently) focused his market to a very specific niche, with very clear definition. The product was not mass marketed, but was highly successful in creating it's own cult or mystique - just as the Beach Boys did. I would suggest that this niche startegy would not work so well for the N2E race, where the market is far, far different with very little overlap.

Now, let's contrast this with the marketing by NOSA. As entry numbers dropped, they diluted to heritage of the event and, among other things, expanded the entries to include NASBoat folks. This increased the entries, but alienated a number of the racers that used to participate. A competing event was spawned for teh real racers and it was as, if not more, successful that the N2E, which had now become the Ensenada HaHa.

And, finally, whether or not Bill is a "good Dude" is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. While he, to his credit, asked for input and did make some changes, the character of the race has been destroyed due to a series of inept decisions made by the blue blazers of NOSA over the recent years.

[DryArmour]

Very good analysis, Mark. I agree about Bill and his effort to make the race as good as it can be. I have never felt threatened by the cruiser classes; let them enjoy their brand of fun.

Actually, his analysis was flawed.

For example, the comparison to the strategy Hobie implemented is not valid. Hobie (intentionally or accidently) focused his market to a very specific niche, with very clear definition. The product was not mass marketed, but was highly successful in creating it's own cult or mystique - just as the Beach Boys did. I would suggest that this niche startegy would not work so well for the N2E race, where the market is far, far different with very little overlap.

Do Rag- I almost always agree with you and your comments as they are generally well thought through. But you are wrong about Hobie. He understood that sailing events are not so much about the boats as they are about the people. Yes, they developed a lifestyle with their regatta circuit but the events were fun because the parties were better than the sailing ever was. The popularity of Ensenada at its height wasn't about great sailing either. Let's face it. The water here is damned cold all year and even on the best days it hardly compares to Key west or the Caribbean for quality conditions. The races were okay but arriving in Ensenada either Friday night (Thank you AFTERBURNER TEAM) and finding the bar packed with pretty girls already sloshed waiting for their guys to show (That could be a day or more later depending on their ride) was always highly entertaining. Lots of dancing and doing belly shots of some scantily clad girl who happily returned the favor seconds later still sit in my mental hard drive and likely always will as what made the N2E fun for me. I hate to be so shallow about it all but the good parties I have been to are far more memorable than the racing has ever been. The possible exception to that is short tacking the city front in 1990 as a crew aboard Brack Duker's Evolution with Robbie Haines making the strategic calls and Stan Honey Navigating. THAT WAS EPIC. I should have appreciated those days more...

I love sailing but having a good race followed by a party packed with pretty girls and a wild time is much preferred by me (and most Men I know) over a better race and a lame party at the end of it all...But hey, that's just me.

Many thanks to Bill Gibbs for VOLUNTEERING to try and make the N2E a better event for all. Now, who's racing it in 2013?

[EarthBM]

The races were okay but arriving in Ensenada either Friday night (Thank you AFTERBURNER TEAM) and finding the bar packed with pretty girls already sloshed waiting for their guys to show (That could be a day or more later depending on their ride) was always highly entertaining.

How would race organizers accomplish that? Just curious.

[DryArmour]

The races were okay but arriving in Ensenada either Friday night (Thank you AFTERBURNER TEAM) and finding the bar packed with pretty girls already sloshed waiting for their guys to show (That could be a day or more later depending on their ride) was always highly entertaining.

How would race organizers accomplish that? Just curious.

By working closely with the local authorities to provide a safe and fun atmosphere.

[condor]

Latest e-mail from NOSA about the race has a nice pic of this big cat flying a hull. Belongs to the OP of this thread.



Looking good!

Attached Files

•  afterburner.JPG   30.34K   13 downloads

[Rick D.]

Stepping into this thread late, I hardly know what to say.

As far as N2E, I believe the organizers have done a terrific job trying new things to keep the race both traditional and fresh. Not everything will work but they have had the guts, leadership and motivation to try (and keep on trying). Some of the comments are clearly from takers, not doers, though.

I will say that it's pretty clear from the comments here and from the relative silence concerning them on this board that those participating in the cruising classes are unwelcome and considered a degradation of the event.

I have met some terrific skippers and crew and have felt a part of this race, at least to some extent in the years I have done it. I have friends who have, after successful racing careers, moved into cruising classes so as to expand the choice of crew, accomodate people with difficult career schedules, and just because they are getting old or older.

I was one of the early ones to sign up this year (my 8th). In seven of those, I have gotten a first and four seconds in my class. I motored maybe half those as minimally as possible and still finish in the allowed time. I have promoted the race to others and, and by rotating my crew with many who have had little or no experience, broadened the richness it brings to others.

If my choice was to race within PHRF only, and with no cruising class allowances, I would not participate. There would be no chance of winning without a younger crew, $25K of sails and lots of practice to the extent of giving up my family's participation in my hobby. It simply isn't my first priority and I won't compete repeatedly in something when I have no chance of winning.

I can understand why someone who is passionate about and invested in competing with other competitive race boats would feel that cruising classes are not 'real' racing. Got that. Formula One, vs. CART vs. NASCAR vs. NHRA. I think there is room for the broader participation arena NOSA hosts.

I have a friend who brought cruiser's races to SoCal from the south over three decades ago. He introduced it to broaden participation in slacking races. It worked. Many of those participating went on to become serious and successful racers. Many others did not, but they got out on the water, had a new and appreciative connection with the racers, and were better by the experience. IMHO, there are plenty of races out there that would be effectively dead without this form of class participation.

When I started this, I was upset enough that I figured I was too old and it was time to pick up my marbles and quit. Now that I have vented, I think instead it's just a reaction to a passionate portion of folks with whom I strongly disagree. That and the perceived superior attitude that has driven so many people out of the sport.

[DoRag]

Stepping into this thread late, I hardly know what to say.

As far as N2E, I believe the organizers have done a terrific job trying new things to keep the race both traditional and fresh. Not everything will work but they have had the guts, leadership and motivation to try (and keep on trying). Some of the comments are clearly from takers, not doers, though.

I will say that it's pretty clear from the comments here and from the relative silence concerning them on this board that those participating in the cruising classes are unwelcome and considered a degradation of the event.

I have met some terrific skippers and crew and have felt a part of this race, at least to some extent in the years I have done it. I have friends who have, after successful racing careers, moved into cruising classes so as to expand the choice of crew, accomodate people with difficult career schedules, and just because they are getting old or older.

I was one of the early ones to sign up this year (my 8th). In seven of those, I have gotten a first and four seconds in my class. I motored maybe half those as minimally as possible and still finish in the allowed time. I have promoted the race to others and, and by rotating my crew with many who have had little or no experience, broadened the richness it brings to others.

If my choice was to race within PHRF only, and with no cruising class allowances, I would not participate. There would be no chance of winning without a younger crew, $25K of sails and lots of practice to the extent of giving up my family's participation in my hobby. It simply isn't my first priority and I won't compete repeatedly in something when I have no chance of winning.

I can understand why someone who is passionate about and invested in competing with other competitive race boats would feel that cruising classes are not 'real' racing. Got that. Formula One, vs. CART vs. NASCAR vs. NHRA. I think there is room for the broader participation arena NOSA hosts.

I have a friend who brought cruiser's races to SoCal from the south over three decades ago. He introduced it to broaden participation in slacking races. It worked. Many of those participating went on to become serious and successful racers. Many others did not, but they got out on the water, had a new and appreciative connection with the racers, and were better by the experience. IMHO, there are plenty of races out there that would be effectively dead without this form of class participation.

When I started this, I was upset enough that I figured I was too old and it was time to pick up my marbles and quit. Now that I have vented, I think instead it's just a reaction to a passionate portion of folks with whom I strongly disagree. That and the perceived superior attitude that has driven so many people out of the sport.

You done with patting yourself on the back?

The fact is the N2E is a race. If you want to race, fine join in. If you want to motor, a race is not for you. The N2E foundation was not built upon cruisers looking for something to do with their boats. It was a race. You wopuld be better suited in the BaHaHaha or just sitting in your boat at the dock drinking beer. Most of us want it to return the N2E to it's heritage. NOSA is now a farce largely managed by cruisers.

As for driving people out of the sport, let me point out that people like you were never, ever, in the sport. You are cruisers. Go cruise somewhere else.

[Rick D.]

"You done with patting yourself on the back?

"The fact is the N2E is a race. If you want to race, fine join in. If you want to motor, a race is not for you. The N2E foundation was not built upon cruisers looking for something to do with their boats. It was a race. You wopuld be better suited in the BaHaHaha or just sitting in your boat at the dock drinking beer. Most of us want it to return the N2E to it's heritage. NOSA is now a farce largely managed by cruisers.

"As for driving people out of the sport, let me point out that people like you were never, ever, in the sport. You are cruisers. Go cruise somewhere else."

After looking at your profile, it's clear you don't have a life; let's see 8700 posts.... you must be SO proud! Go play on someone's big bad race boat someplace. You must be a real joy as crew.

[condor]

...
If my choice was to race within PHRF only, and with no cruising class allowances, I would not participate. There would be no chance of winning without a younger crew, $25K of sails and lots of practice to the extent of giving up my family's participation in my hobby. It simply isn't my first priority and I won't compete repeatedly in something when I have no chance of winning....

Just to address that point, there are lots of boats sailed by a not-young crew. We have a first in class with noone on board under 50. Three other firsts with half the crew over 50. so you can do well with age.

You're right, though, it does take some practice and prep. (But I assure you we don't have a $25K sail budget.)

----------------------

I'd say not everyone is on D-rag's side here. I object to his saying 'Most of us want...' He don't speak for me.

...Already entered for my 37th race

[Bill Gibbs]

I don't have a problem with sail racers wanting a sail-only race. I'm in there with them and heading for my 14th race in April.
I don't have a problem sharing the water with other sail racers who have chosen slower or fewer-hulled boats than mine. They are not the class I am racing in. I hope they have a good time.
I don't have a problem sharing the water with classes that can run their motors at night. I compete for no trophies with them. We are not racing each other. These people have chosen a different race than I did. I hope they have a good time.
This is America. Everybody should have the freedom to choose what they find enjoyment doing. And if it includes taking a boat to Ensenada in the N2E race in April, God bless them.
N2E is an inclusive recreational activity comprised of many different races. Look elsewhere for exclusive elitist activities.
IMHO.

[DoRag]

"You done with patting yourself on the back?

"The fact is the N2E is a race. If you want to race, fine join in. If you want to motor, a race is not for you. The N2E foundation was not built upon cruisers looking for something to do with their boats. It was a race. You wopuld be better suited in the BaHaHaha or just sitting in your boat at the dock drinking beer. Most of us want it to return the N2E to it's heritage. NOSA is now a farce largely managed by cruisers.

"As for driving people out of the sport, let me point out that people like you were never, ever, in the sport. You are cruisers. Go cruise somewhere else."

After looking at your profile, it's clear you don't have a life; let's see 8700 posts.... you must be SO proud! Go play on someone's big bad race boat someplace. You must be a real joy as crew.

You still looking for something to do with your cruiser motor boat?

[DoRag]

...
If my choice was to race within PHRF only, and with no cruising class allowances, I would not participate. There would be no chance of winning without a younger crew, $25K of sails and lots of practice to the extent of giving up my family's participation in my hobby. It simply isn't my first priority and I won't compete repeatedly in something when I have no chance of winning....

Just to address that point, there are lots of boats sailed by a not-young crew. We have a first in class with noone on board under 50. Three other firsts with half the crew over 50. so you can do well with age.

You're right, though, it does take some practice and prep. (But I assure you we don't have a $25K sail budget.)

----------------------

I'd say not everyone is on D-rag's side here. I object to his saying 'Most of us want...' He don't speak for me.

...Already entered for my 37th race

It's "he dosen't speak for me." Not "he don't speak for me."

I don't have a problem with sail racers wanting a sail-only race. I'm in there with them and heading for my 14th race in April.
I don't have a problem sharing the water with other sail racers who have chosen slower or fewer-hulled boats than mine. They are not the class I am racing in. I hope they have a good time.
I don't have a problem sharing the water with classes that can run their motors at night. I compete for no trophies with them. We are not racing each other. These people have chosen a different race than I did. I hope they have a good time.
This is America. Everybody should have the freedom to choose what they find enjoyment doing. And if it includes taking a boat to Ensenada in the N2E race in April, God bless them.
N2E is an inclusive recreational activity comprised of many different races. Look elsewhere for exclusive elitist activities.
IMHO.

And here we have NOSA speaking.........

[mid-fleet buoy racer]

I'm also in for my 14th run... I have finished 2nd in class once, and have had a ball most times (except the drifter-fests). I do not personally know many skippers outside of my boat's PHRF 72(+/- whatever) band, but they are generally a good bunch of people (except that Problem Child rat bastard <grin>), the event is a lot of fun, and it is also a pretty good local distance race. My take.... just me... is that the cruiser fleet is welcome to enjoy it as well.. I do not see the harm...

Winning overall is probably never going to happen for a boat with my rating, so I don't really care about the other classes that much, motoring or no motoring.. So..

Try to give it a rest, Do Rag....

Merry Christmas everybody..

[DA-WOODY]

with <18 hours to go till the start

of the 2012 Sydney Hobart

77 boats registered

http://rolexsydneyhobart.com/

Jus compairin

[Gouvernail]

Host of other regatttas should use your behaviour as a model.
I loved the opening comment..."selfish."

Hell Yes!! If you figure out the perfect fun time for yourself and host it, others are almost certain to share your taste and be thrilled..

same token other side>>
If you comprimise and dumb it down...others will experience "not quite right" along with you..

Get all the input you can, digest it, and then , because you care more than anyboidy else and have put more thought into it than anyone else, trust yourself to make ALL the right decisions.

The world of sailing needs more guys like you.

[JonRowe]

I'm afraid I'm not a "pro" sailor, so I've raced on "cruisers" in the UK, but would never consider running an engine during a race (except as an emergency measure of course). There are many people who sail "cruiser" yachts who race, they sail to win, just with boats a damn sight slower and so usually in a different class, I say let them race, but engines have no place in a sail race. By all means of course, if people wish to organise a separate cruise alongside the racing, that's fine by me, but they need to stay out of way without being under a racing pennant.

(Just my 2 cents)

[JST]

Ok we are a week out, anyone want to guess on the weather???? Mark???

[Tom O'Keefe]

At 180 hours out the Navy is not showing a very promising picture.

https://www.fnmoc.na...=sfc10m&tau=180

[Grinder]

How's the entry list?

[sunseeker]

I don't know about the entry list but they are having horse carriage rides on Sunday. That oughta transfer to more racing sailors. NOT.

[DoRag]

Now, hold on there.

 

It is clear to me that offering horse buggy rides will induce far more cruisers to enter - and, isn't that the point of NOSA?

 

I would offer a suggestion that NOSA should offer new entrants several NOSA logo embossed pencils.

 

 

I don't know about the entry list but they are having horse carriage rides on Sunday. That oughta transfer to more racing sailors. NOT.

[Somebody Else]

How's the entry list?

 

132 sailboats

71 motorboats

[DoRag]

So, NOSA has managed to reduce the race from 600 racers to now 132.

 

Strong work turning a race into a recreational vehicle park!

 

 

How's the entry list?

 

132 sailboats

71 motorboats

[Veeger]

So, NOSA has managed to reduce the race from 600 racers to now 132.

 

Strong work turning a race into a recreational vehicle park!

 

 

 

How's the entry list?

 

132 sailboats

71 motorboats

Dooood,

 

It's the economy!

 

(and Mexico isn't what it used to be either!)

[Somebody Else]

So, NOSA has managed to reduce the race from 600 racers to now 132.

 

Strong work turning a race into a recreational vehicle park!

 

Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

[DoRag]

The economy?

 

The N2E has been on the decline for many, many years. Through both good and bad economies.

 

No, it's far to simplistic to seek refuge in the "it's the economy" excuse just as it's too simplistic to blame GW Bush for the lack of participation.

 

The better answer is to hold NOSA accountable for their many, many bad decisions - the culumlative effect of which has been to turn the "race" over to power boaters and cause many to opt not to continue to participate. This same curse is also prevelent in most YCs, so NOSA is not alone in their misdirection and incompetence.

 

So, NOSA has managed to reduce the race from 600 racers to now 132.

 

Strong work turning a race into a recreational vehicle park!

 

 

 

How's the entry list?

 

132 sailboats

71 motorboats

Dooood,

 

It's the economy!

 

(and Mexico isn't what it used to be either!)

[Snaggletooth]

 

Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Ime am wacthing that tonite......

[Somebody Else]

Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Ime am wacthing that tonite......

 

You're a good person, Snaggie!

 

[Pog]

I'm amazed at all the blame people are throwing around of why the race has less participation, but just ask how easy it is for people just to go visit Mexico for a day to shop and have a sunset dinner. It is a lot harder to go there now than it was just a decade ago. I think between this and people working harder/longer might be a bigger factor than some petty issue with cruisers that use their motors

[DoRag]

The decline in the race began long before the Mexicans were shooting each other.

 

Be advised that not everyone is "working harder/longer." That's a lame excuse.

 

So, feel free to enter and motor your way south. The N2E Race is an ideal way for cruisers to have something to do with their boat other than go to Catalina.

 

 

I'm amazed at all the blame people are throwing around of why the race has less participation, but just ask how easy it is for people just to go visit Mexico for a day to shop and have a sunset dinner. It is a lot harder to go there now than it was just a decade ago. I think between this and people working harder/longer might be a bigger factor than some petty issue with cruisers that use their motors

[Pog]

The problem with going into Mexico began before all the shootings, 9-11 made the crossings back into the US painful. There have been plenty of times I haven't done the race just cause I don't want to ruin my weekend by sitting in a 3 hr line at the border

[condor]

SI's and class breaks/start times are up.  (For about a week...)

 

Disappointed that the promised separation between the cruisers' starts and the sailors' starts didn't happen.  Cruisers first warning at 10:55, racers first warning at 11:15, right after last curuisers' start.  And starts are in reverse order, faster boats go last.  So everyone has to pick their way through the slower boats all afternoon.

 

And if we're all going to start together, why go out early before the wind comes up?  Should have stayed with noon.

 

On the good news side, a NOSA bridge member told me there will be a results board at Papas n Beer in Ensenada, so one can check results from town if you stay there.

[some dude]

The problem with going into Mexico began before all the shootings, 9-11 made the crossings back into the US painful. There have been plenty of times I haven't done the race just cause I don't want to ruin my weekend by sitting in a 3 hr line at the border

 

 

Umm there's been a 3 hour line at the border for about 40 years.  You get around it by taking a cab to the border and walking across.  Shootings, 9/11, vampires, the economy, cruisers, ghosts, goblins, etc, have not changed that procedure at all.

[Kmag]

The problem with going into Mexico began before all the shootings, 9-11 made the crossings back into the US painful. There have been plenty of times I haven't done the race just cause I don't want to ruin my weekend by sitting in a 3 hr line at the border

 

 

Umm there's been a 3 hour line at the border for about 40 years.  You get around it by taking a cab to the border and walking across.  Shootings, 9/11, vampires, the economy, cruisers, ghosts, goblins, etc, have not changed that procedure at all.

 

 

Mexico is great.. people have no patience these days.  Enjoy the Taxi ride from Ensenada by stopping at La Fonda for a lunch.. have some beers and chill.  

[Snapper]

I'm riding back on the boat Sunday night. Have some fun in Ensenada, relax and no border crossing to deal with. I really don't need another ceramic ninja turtle or Michael Jordan (given to Sumpin). 

[DryArmour]

For those of you still needing to deliver up from San Diego or other points South of Newport Beach....

Wednesday and Thursday have favorable winds for the trip.  Might get a little wet overnight on Wednesday.  Not for sure though on the precip yet...

[DoRag]

Maybe you need to get the ceramic of Elvis dying on a cross?

 

 

I'm riding back on the boat Sunday night. Have some fun in Ensenada, relax and no border crossing to deal with. I really don't need another ceramic ninja turtle or Michael Jordan (given to Sumpin). 

[Bill Gibbs]

Ahmanson participation down to 14 (?) boats total.

Border Run participation down in 2013

Neither can be blamed on the NOSA BoD.

Maybe something else is going on.

 

But I made it from Ventura to Newport Beach Saturday and am looking forward to the N2E Friday.

I predict the beer will be cold in Ensenada.

[PeterHuston]

Maybe you need to get the ceramic of Elvis dying on a cross?

 

 

I'm riding back on the boat Sunday night. Have some fun in Ensenada, relax and no border crossing to deal with. I really don't need another ceramic ninja turtle or Michael Jordan (given to Sumpin). 

 

Elvis died for your sins.

[silent bob]

Maybe you need to get the ceramic of Elvis dying on a cross?
 
 

I'm riding back on the boat Sunday night. Have some fun in Ensenada, relax and no border crossing to deal with. I really don't need another ceramic ninja turtle or Michael Jordan (given to Sumpin). 

 
Elvis died for your sins.

If you don't sin, he died for nothing!

[DA-WOODY]

So who can call the Pre Race Party ???

 

Do the Cougars follow the Money and the Yachts (will they properly enjoy BCYC w the R&F)

 

or will they Follow the Party to the Pavilion ???

 

So Will the Party be BIGGER

 

or will all those who made the BCYC Party's ROCK (Yacht Owners / Crew) just Drink on the Boat 

 

I can see wanting to be FRESH and Ready to Go on Friday Morning

 

But If you are Crashing on the Boat and the Band is 50' away and the Bar is 25'away = PARTY

 

And You Never know who just might walk back to the Boat for MORE after the Party's Over

 

 

 

 

I'll tell ya I"M Hoping All Hopes that the Pavilion Party can keep w Tridition

 

went by the parking lot this afternoon and could see a few good signs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

        

[condor]

But I made it from Ventura to Newport Beach Saturday and am looking forward to the N2E Friday.

I predict the beer will be cold in Ensenada.

Amen,amen, to cold beer.

 

You just get to it a long time before I do.  But it's stil cold,and the tequila store has Don Anastacio.  Ask for a taste.  (Anywhere they give you tequila tastes can't be bad...)

[Snapper]

Maybe you need to get the ceramic of Elvis dying on a cross?

 

 

I'm riding back on the boat Sunday night. Have some fun in Ensenada, relax and no border crossing to deal with. I really don't need another ceramic ninja turtle or Michael Jordan (given to Sumpin). 

They told me I needed to order that online. Just give them my card # and they will take care of it. At least that's what I thought they said. I'll pick you up another Raiders hoodie after SD-E

 

How's the WX looking?

[DoRag]

14" of new pow, no powerboaters, no NOSA....

 

 

 

Maybe you need to get the ceramic of Elvis dying on a cross?

 

 

I'm riding back on the boat Sunday night. Have some fun in Ensenada, relax and no border crossing to deal with. I really don't need another ceramic ninja turtle or Michael Jordan (given to Sumpin). 

They told me I needed to order that online. Just give them my card # and they will take care of it. At least that's what I thought they said. I'll pick you up another Raiders hoodie after SD-E

 

How's the WX looking?

[DryArmour]

The weather is indeed improving a little bit. The routing program is optimistic now with the 70 raters arriving around midnight. The contour maps are less optimistic and show more light and variable than the routing suggests. At least the direction has more west in it now.  The good news is that for those who stick it out and get to the Coronados..the pressure comes up in the evening and stays up from about 310 all the way to Todos Santos...

 

More updates as they become available.

[DoRag]

The light air is no longer an issue as the entrants can now crank up their engines!

 

The weather is indeed improving a little bit. The routing program is optimistic now with the 70 raters arriving around midnight. The contour maps are less optimistic and show more light and variable than the routing suggests. At least the direction has more west in it now.  The good news is that for those who stick it out and get to the Coronados..the pressure comes up in the evening and stays up from about 310 all the way to Todos Santos...

 

More updates as they become available.

[DryArmour]

The light air is no longer an issue as the entrants can now crank up their engines!

 

The weather is indeed improving a little bit. The routing program is optimistic now with the 70 raters arriving around midnight. The contour maps are less optimistic and show more light and variable than the routing suggests. At least the direction has more west in it now.  The good news is that for those who stick it out and get to the Coronados..the pressure comes up in the evening and stays up from about 310 all the way to Todos Santos...

 

More updates as they become available.

The guys with the iron gennys never bothered me. They aren't racing. They are motor-sailing to a destination and then partying hard for a day and a half. I much prefer the more pure side of the sport where only the wind is sued for propulsion.  I have NEVER been beaten to Ensenada by a boat that used its motor. EVER. I guess that is why I don't see them as a big deal. I do understand those who don't like them in the race but the cost of doing the race would be higher if their entry fees were not available to defray some of the costs.

[sumpin]

I am taking the border ride to get my money back on the countless Aztec calendars I bought which have failed

[walterbshaffer]

I'm amazed at all the blame people are throwing around of why the race has less participation, but just ask how easy it is for people just to go visit Mexico for a day to shop and have a sunset dinner. It is a lot harder to go there now than it was just a decade ago. I think between this and people working harder/longer might be a bigger factor than some petty issue with cruisers that use their motors

For most it's not the border wait as most go back north on the horse they rode in on.

 

It's not the economy either; owning a boat is an expensive proposition racing or not.

 

Maybe a lot of folks got scared off by the tragically mysterious deaths last year but I doubt it.

 

One thing I do know is that the rather unfriendly attitude to "outsiders" looking for dock space is evident.  Yes I understand that dealing with 200 boats that have a sort of expectant/demanding attitude is difficult, but making it easy for the time & expense paying owners should be job No. 1.

 

That said, DoRag's comment about the RV park was pretty funny. Good one. I suppose it would be stupid for me to ask why don't you help turn it around, would'nt it. We all have memories and some have good stories, but a legacy is different.

 

Edit: it's also possible that folks got turned off at the idea of entering into a motorboat race but I don't think that's it either.

[sumpin]

dodging motor boats takes much practice

most do not go back on the horse, btw

not scared of the locals or the fools that kill each other over "whatever"

used to be max one hour border wait, maybe another hour if pulled to secondary, it's now 3-4 

it's not so much living in the past as much as much as the present return is just so "un fun"

I will be there none the less

[dal]

Thanks Condor !

One of mine from the Border Run 2011

               cheers Dal

Latest e-mail from NOSA about the race has a nice pic of this big cat flying a hull. Belongs to the OP of this thread.



Looking good!

[DA-WOODY]

I'll be in Newport Early Thursday afternoon

 

I can't get me head around NO PARTY at BCYC

 

A BIG part of the events Charm has been Visiting the Race Boats for Hospitality aboard.

 

Sooo Like Everyone starts off on the boats and works over to the Party as the Band starts

 

Now What ?? will BCYC be Off Limits to  Cougars    Owners   non members ?? 

 

Will they Ban "Boat Party" Squatting, Glass toasting, Open Containers, Music, Fun

 

And the Ultimate Pre N2E Kick-Off Tridition = Cougar Hosting 

 

I hear of Big Party's All year in Newport and other LA Hot Spots

 

But I have No interest in going all the way up for a regular Party 

 

N2E Pre Race Party was a Yacht Club Party - and you can't duplicate that in a Bar/Restaurant 

 

well maybe @  Josh Slocum's ?????   

 

I hope the Party is a Blast

 

But I Fear "Everything" that was the Magic of the past BCYC Parties has been ended, separated, moved &/or Change

 

But HAY I'm giving it a Chance - I have kinda like a running record to uphold   

 

 

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