2224 replies to this topic

[~Stingray~]

This g-tran is mildly interesting for the Bertelli quote at the end, for the suggestion that BA is who got Simmer a role in OR.

"We are on good terms, but there was no room for agreement. He wanted to put a team on his own, by train to the World Series, sponsored by JP Morgan with us could not, became finance from Oracle. In addition, also asked to have at his side Grant Simmer, but the latter's role of Luna Rossa was already occupied."
http://translate.google.com/translate?rurl=translate.google.com&sl=it&u=http://www.lastampa.it/2012/10/26/sport/vela/luna-rossa-parte-la-campagna-acquisti-i0ocuMfHSuzOjDGcZWMV8I/pagina.html

Doug Pederson is included in this one
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.lastampa.it/2012/10/26/sport/vela/il-patron-di-luna-rossa-in-italia-nessun-aiuto-imLPZmTdiQQg2sDoZJedZK/pagina.html

[~Stingray~]

one of several construction shots at https://www.facebook...96618023&type=1

[Hemi]

Doesn't it looks a bit familiar ? (photos, credit to Sail-world)

Wow, the bottom is hooked aft quite a bit!

As well as creating a cleaner run aft, does this also have the effect of sucking the transom down a bit? And perhaps also distributing the volume forward lower?

[~Stingray~]

another good wing shot, from Varo album at https://www.facebook...e/photos_albums

[nav]

^SR https://www.facebook...96618023&type=1




Hooked?

[Indio]

^SR https://www.facebook...96618023&type=1


Hooked?

Is that a paint job or is the chrome a heat-applied adhesive skin?!?

[pjh]

It looks like a film to me.

[nav]

Looks like a film, don't see any heat, just careful hand work.

One bloke, tatts and a knife! (Oh yeah - and the big guy ^^ )

[Doug Lord]

Best looking 72 yet!

[zillafreak]

Gas goes in here? There's a Lambo V12 in each hull.

[zillafreak]

^
--

Check out this vid at 1:33, what is that?

Reflection of everything behind is all I can see. Different animal when its a giant mirror!

[bluelaser]

Gas goes in here? There's a Lambo V12 in each hull.

RIghting line hole I would assume.

[zillafreak]

The chrome will make for some very creative photography and videography once it goes sailing.

As for the L foils, I think it's a smart bit of collaborative testing of design concepts, without both teams using up their allocations of boards: LR have seen what the C-V ETNZ foils are capable of, now ETNZ get to see how the OR-style L foils perform.

Beautiful boat: if anything, the chrome has a very slimming effect on the hulls.

"Honey, does this chrome make me look skinny?"

[Cavandish]

inspiration?
That boat look downright solid in a way that after use, it can, with little doubt blend well with all the other utensils in the kitchen drawer.

[~Stingray~]

Not at all fluent in Italian but Bertelli referred to an retro/futuristic 'airplane' look in the video that FV recorded, if I got it right.

That, or the 'Fokker' was something completely different..

[Indio]

Looks like a film, don't see any heat, just careful hand work.

One bloke, tatts and a knife! (Oh yeah - and the big guy ^^ )

OR and the poodle AR will probably claim to the MC that it's a low-friction film and it's not allowed.

[~Stingray~]

It's pretty obvious to me that any time the LR sailors glance at anything in the mirror, there's a chance they might notice the performance factors for how fast they are overtaking ETNZ..

[Indio]

It's pretty obvious to me that any time the LR sailors glance at anything in the mirror, there's a chance they might notice the performance factors for how fast they are overtaking ETNZ..

NZL2 will sail alongside LR1 and then slow down a bit so they can check out from the mirror how high they're foiling.

All part of the ETNZ-LR Master Plan.

[Koukel]

This is clever. On days with heavy rollers they sail this way and go wave piercing. On days with short waves and heavy chop they flip it upside down and take advantage of the more traditional bow profile.


Koukel

[eric e]

http://www.americasc...-in-new-zealand

good to see an owner so proud of his club

there are at least 4? burgees on the boat

a pin on his lapel

and probably no tacky company labels visible on the outside of his clothing

[~Stingray~]

It's pretty obvious to me that any time the LR sailors glance at anything in the mirror, there's a chance they might notice the performance factors for how fast they are overtaking ETNZ..

NZL2 will sail alongside LR1 and then slow down a bit so they can check out from the mirror how high they're foiling.

All part of the ETNZ-LR Master Plan.

Isn't there an anti-mirror clause somewhere in the Protocol?

Thought I saw that somewhere..

[Barnyb]

A billionaire and his toy

Attached Files

•  Oct 2012 f 218.JPG   218.3K   193 downloads

[Barnyb]

A family affair

Attached Files

•  Oct 2012 f 317.JPG   124.23K   112 downloads

[~Stingray~]

Was nice to see Miuccia crack the champagne, and to see their two sons also in attendance.

The investment number has also grown already, it suggests one hell of a commitment. That $70m PB spoke of last night, even if in $NZD must be well north of E40M? A lot to lavish on one pair of hulls.. Could even be more $Butter than GD has, to thin-spread across two boats?

I'm sure k_j will pipe in to correct me to his fantasy that PB will spend 'only' E40m, across two campaigns, AC34 and AC35, unless he can find and delete that silly post first

[HHN92]

From Sail-World:

"The launch was followed by a lively party for all the team’s families; 350 guests were present, including the President of Circolo della Vela Sicilia (i.e. the challenging yacht club) Agostino Randazzo, Grant Dalton (CEO of ETNZ Emirates Team New Zealand), Steve Burrett (Commodore of the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron), the Ambassador of Italy in New Zealand Alessandro Levi- Sandri, Sir Michael Fay, and the Maori community representative Alec Hawke of Nga?ti Wha?tua o Orakei. "

Funny to see this name pop-up. Hastings, I thought he was personna non grata with the NZ AC crowd?

[Indio]

From Sail-World:

"The launch was followed by a lively party for all the team’s families; 350 guests were present, including the President of Circolo della Vela Sicilia (i.e. the challenging yacht club) Agostino Randazzo, Grant Dalton (CEO of ETNZ Emirates Team New Zealand), Steve Burrett (Commodore of the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron), the Ambassador of Italy in New Zealand Alessandro Levi- Sandri, Sir Michael Fay, and the Maori community representative Alec Hawke of Nga?ti Wha?tua o Orakei. "

Funny to see this name pop-up. Hastings, I thought he was personna non grata with the NZ AC crowd?

That's only a Yank's perception.

[flutter]

This is where they realise that the grinding pedestal needs a bottle opener for the stubbies. Hopefully that's now included in the Prada boat.

[flutter]

?? from FV at http://www.farevela....a-video-e-foto/

I reckon those are too small to be '72 boards
Edit: apologies, already posted, cheers Xlot

[bluelaser]

She's definitely photogenic..

[~Stingray~]

Newish
--
If all goes according to plan and barring any unexpected problems, the team will take Sunday off and then embark on a busy week that will see the Italian yacht taken for her maiden sail on Thursday.
--
http://www.vsail.inf...oes-load-tests/

[Tornado-Cat]

Has that already been posted ?

http://www.3news.co....31/Default.aspx

[Barnyb]

From Sail-World:

"The launch was followed by a lively party for all the team’s families; 350 guests were present, including the President of Circolo della Vela Sicilia (i.e. the challenging yacht club) Agostino Randazzo, Grant Dalton (CEO of ETNZ Emirates Team New Zealand), Steve Burrett (Commodore of the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron), the Ambassador of Italy in New Zealand Alessandro Levi- Sandri, Sir Michael Fay, and the Maori community representative Alec Hawke of Nga?ti Wha?tua o Orakei. "

Funny to see this name pop-up. Hastings, I thought he was personna non grata with the NZ AC crowd?

That's only a Yank's perception.

Sitting behind TNZ and also now LR is the NZ yachting industry. Behind the teams and the companies are a group of businessman who have developed the industry over many years. It is no lucky break that TNZ won the cup it is beacuse the whole industry was focused on developing faster better boats. Last night many of the older gentlemaen of the industry popped down to catch up with one another and wish LR the best. Fay was one that put an extraordinary amount of effort and resource into the industry and is a passionite kiwi to boot. Also predominant at the event last night was Team NZ (there was some criticism that they were most prominent at the bar - but hey they had had a long day on thge water and needed to rehydrate). The Italians said that it was their party as well.

The talk last night was centered around glowing praise for TNZ and LR and their extremely good relationship. There was some critism but that was reserved for people and organisation oversea.

[SW Sailor]

It's pretty obvious to me that any time the LR sailors glance at anything in the mirror, there's a chance they might notice the performance factors for how fast they are overtaking ETNZ..

NZL2 will sail alongside LR1 and then slow down a bit so they can check out from the mirror how high they're foiling.

All part of the ETNZ-LR Master Plan.

Isn't there an anti-mirror clause somewhere in the Protocol?

Thought I saw that somewhere..

Their is.

Given the home teams advantage It's only invoked if you win. Just ask Enzedel.

[KiwiJoker]

Was nice to see Miuccia crack the champagne, and to see their two sons also in attendance.

The investment number has also grown already, it suggests one hell of a commitment. That $70m PB spoke of last night, even if in $NZD must be well north of E40M? A lot to lavish on one pair of hulls.. Could even be more $Butter than GD has, to thin-spread across two boats?

I'm sure k_j will pipe in to correct me to his fantasy that PB will spend 'only' E40m, across two campaigns, AC34 and AC35, unless he can find and delete that silly post first

RG reported 45 mil Euros for the 2013 campaign in his coverage of the Thursday media meet and greet.

At today's rates that's US$58 mil and NZ$70 mil.

[Offshore 1]

Gas goes in here? There's a Lambo V12 in each hull.

RIghting line hole I would assume.

backstay turning block

[Rennmaus]

It's pretty obvious to me that any time the LR sailors glance at anything in the mirror, there's a chance they might notice the performance factors for how fast they are overtaking ETNZ..

NZL2 will sail alongside LR1 and then slow down a bit so they can check out from the mirror how high they're foiling.

All part of the ETNZ-LR Master Plan.

Isn't there an anti-mirror clause somewhere in the Protocol?

Thought I saw that somewhere..

If it isn't just wait until OR tries to change the protocol.

[Barnyb]

Overview of Friday - launch day

[Winged]

Rossa The Movie

http://acworldseries.blogspot.com/2012/10/ac72-luna-rossa-launch-in-auckland.html

[Hastings]

From Sail-World:

"The launch was followed by a lively party for all the team’s families; 350 guests were present, including the President of Circolo della Vela Sicilia (i.e. the challenging yacht club) Agostino Randazzo, Grant Dalton (CEO of ETNZ Emirates Team New Zealand), Steve Burrett (Commodore of the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron), the Ambassador of Italy in New Zealand Alessandro Levi- Sandri, Sir Michael Fay, and the Maori community representative Alec Hawke of Nga?ti Wha?tua o Orakei. "

Funny to see this name pop-up. Hastings, I thought he was personna non grata with the NZ AC crowd?

No!

The original TNZ folk are split. Several think Fay deserves credit for getting the KZ-7 project going. Others are not persuaded

I am not so sanguine. This guy pocketed millions out of state assets.

But I am happy to see Alec Hawke (Ngati Whatua) was there.

[ollallero]

Bertelli says a lot (all in Italian) in this vid recorded by FV. Anything interesting? (not just the 'controversial' please?..)

Bertelli said: The following cup will be for sure the last cup sailed on such kind of monsters.

Max serena led us understand: Fear wil be an important factor on these dangerous boats. Previously to be unferard could make you win a race. Now to be unferard could make you loose averyting. The target will be to find the best balance... fear might be sometime good on the next cup...

[DIMITRIS]

Go on Luna Rossa!! Amazing......by all means! I am curious to see how it will evolve from now on and especially against TNZ cat.

[scarecow]

Michael Fay is not very well liked here.

In the 1980s, New Zealand went through a major economic restructuring which involved a series of state asset sales. Fay's company acted as advisor to the Government on these sales and took advantage of a regulatory environment that was not equipped to deal with such large transactions.

One example is where his company acted as an advisor on the sale of the New Zealand Railways Corporation and ended up holding 40% of the company. Another example is their role in another state-owned enterprise Telecom New Zealand which netted them NZ$277 million (1990) without putting up a single dollar. Fay's companies ended up extracting 2.2% of the country's GDP and was made worse by the fact the country was on the verge of bankruptcy.

Subsequent to that, his company became involved with setting up a tax fraud scheme that took advantage of incompetance and corruption in the Inland Revenue Department (New Zealand's tax department) and the Cook Islands. The scheme used shonky tax credits from the Cook Islands which were used as a harbour. It is not known how much money was lost to that scheme but around $140 million (mid-90s) was prosecuted.

Fay now lives in Geneva. Surprise Surprise.

[Xlot]

Very good close up pictures of wing base by Pierre

http://www.vsail.inf...oes-load-tests/

Quite useful for the disappeared leading element flap and wing hydraulics questions

[geppeto]

Michael Fay is not very well liked here.

In the 1980s, New Zealand went through a major economic restructuring which involved a series of state asset sales. Fay's company acted as advisor to the Government on these sales and took advantage of a regulatory environment that was not equipped to deal with such large transactions.

One example is where his company acted as an advisor on the sale of the New Zealand Railways Corporation and ended up holding 40% of the company. Another example is their role in another state-owned enterprise Telecom New Zealand which netted them NZ$277 million (1990) without putting up a single dollar. Fay's companies ended up extracting 2.2% of the country's GDP and was made worse by the fact the country was on the verge of bankruptcy.

Subsequent to that, his company became involved with setting up a tax fraud scheme that took advantage of incompetance and corruption in the Inland Revenue Department (New Zealand's tax department) and the Cook Islands. The scheme used shonky tax credits from the Cook Islands which were used as a harbour. It is not known how much money was lost to that scheme but around $140 million (mid-90s) was prosecuted.

Fay now lives in Geneva. Surprise Surprise.

Michael Fay has not lived in Geneva for quite a few years. he divides his time between Sydney, Auckland and Mercury Island

[nav]

Has that already been posted ?

http://www.3news.co....31/Default.aspx

Overview of Friday - launch day

Great videos guys thanks

I didn't like to see them pulling the trailer about with a forklift - just push it.
The 'easy-in' rudders - new?
The installed mooring/righting(?) loops
No 'dashboard'

- here's another with a few pithy quotes http://www.3news.co....76/Default.aspx

The quote in one of the commentaries 'almost identical too' NZ17.1

[nav]

http://www.vsail.inf...oes-load-tests/ (enbiggable with click)

© All photos copyright Pierre Orphanidis / VSail.info

[nav]

Grunty enough?

[hoom]

Thats a great shot of the wing innards.

Finally clear proof of the inner spar on the ETNZ design.
I mean we came to the conclusion thats what they have a long time back but thats by far the clearest pic of it yet.

[bluelaser]

Grunty enough?

not really...

[~Stingray~]

FV interviews in Italian with Bruni and Sirena

[Xlot]

^^

Rather interesting both, but too long - sorry

Just from Max:

- the daggerboards are not the real ones, we'll see them next week, believe different from ETNZ

- also from their experience on SL-33s the VMG difference is simply too large, foiling is a must

- experimenting on wing rake is important

- load testing can get up to 80% of design values, they did the platform upside down inside the tent, doing standing rigging now

- they do hope Naples and Venice will go ahead, they have scheduled the transfer to SF in the same period so they wouldn't waste time

- Frank Cammas is also advising on foils

[K38BOB]

Flying burgee clearly reflected in the wing

[~Stingray~]

Thanks

- also from their experience on SL-33s the VMG difference is simply too large, foiling is a must

Fresh answered in the interview at Oracle OpenWorld too, that with foiling VMG is about 10% faster downwind.

- they do hope Naples and Venice will go ahead, they have scheduled the transfer to SF in the same period so they wouldn't waste time

Read somewhere else they figure to leave Auckland in late Feb and take about 60 days to get fully set up in SF, so that gibes well with the same Italy timeline.

At TE's Facebook page there's a link to a Super Yacht brochure wherein it lists 'TBC' timeframes for two other ACWS's, for iirc Nov and Feb. But the brochure may well be a little outdated even it was used this week at an event in Ft Lauderdale.

[~Stingray~]

OT but given my mention of Ft Lauderdale, this was uploaded by TE today; haven't actually watched it yet

[nav]

Hmmm ......looks an awful lot like an ACFP* to me....

TE's natural habitat


*Air conditioned feeding pen

[Monster Mash]

Zoom in on the rear of the main spar
Hydraulics, load test wiring or a little of both?

[nav]

That's mostly string drive off the Delta - but there is certainly hydraulics there too -->
(and sensors)

[Barnyb]

Thanks

- also from their experience on SL-33s the VMG difference is simply too large, foiling is a must

Fresh answered in the interview at Oracle OpenWorld too, that with foiling VMG is about 10% faster downwind.

- they do hope Naples and Venice will go ahead, they have scheduled the transfer to SF in the same period so they wouldn't waste time

Read somewhere else they figure to leave Auckland in late Feb and take about 60 days to get fully set up in SF, so that gibes well with the same Italy timeline.

At TE's Facebook page there's a link to a Super Yacht brochure wherein it lists 'TBC' timeframes for two other ACWS's, for iirc Nov and Feb. But the brochure may well be a little outdated even it was used this week at an event in Ft Lauderdale.

It takes 60 days to move the base and they are using the same base in SF as set up in Akld. They have timetabled that in March although could delay if neccessary (Max)

Ian Murray is not a happy chap having to deal with politics but he did say that Naples and Venice will go ahead.

[Rohanoz]

^^

Rather interesting both, but too long - sorry

Just from Max:

- experimenting on wing rake is important

Finally someone else is agreeing with me!
I've mentioned rake being one of the issues OR72 pitchpoled, the flexing platform letting the rig go upright. Last thing you want to happen in 30knots on any boat.

[Tornado-Cat]

^^

Rather interesting both, but too long - sorry

Just from Max:

- experimenting on wing rake is important

Finally someone else is agreeing with me!
I've mentioned rake being one of the issues OR72 pitchpoled, the flexing platform letting the rig go upright. Last thing you want to happen in 30knots on any boat.

Absolutely, I had mentioned it too, that means that, in 30 kts gust, the mast is pushed forward. Great for the show !

Don't scream it too loudly, die hard fan boys will be mad again...

[~Stingray~]

New AC upload

[thetruth]

Beautiful boats as always and the clothes look good. Shame about the sailors..........................yet more of the same old Prada

[boby1]

^^

Rather interesting both, but too long - sorry

Just from Max:

- experimenting on wing rake is important

Finally someone else is agreeing with me!
I've mentioned rake being one of the issues OR72 pitchpoled, the flexing platform letting the rig go upright. Last thing you want to happen in 30knots on any boat.

Absolutely, I had mentioned it too, that means that, in 30 kts gust, the mast is pushed forward. Great for the show !

Don't scream it too loudly, die hard fan boys will be mad again...

+1
look at the 5 to 7degrees rake of groupama 4 , rake is an important factor to consider

[umpire]

This is where they realise that the grinding pedestal needs a bottle opener for the stubbies. Hopefully that's now included in the Prada boat.

Think it would be a corkscrew for the wine.

[luminary]

I wonder if Coors is going to go legal if the call it "Silver Bullet" or if they are happy for the connection.

Conversely, i wonder how happy Prada would be having a Coors brand associated with their baby.

New AC upload

[surfsup]

pretty chrome

https://pbs.twimg.co...A0oF6.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.co.....e<br /><br />

https://pbs.twimg.co...AtFzk.jpg:large

pretty chrome

https://pbs.twimg.co...A0oF6.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.co.....e<br /><br />

https://pbs.twimg.co...AtFzk.jpg:large

[surfsup]

Looks like they have spent to much time around Justin Beiber!!

pretty chrome

https://pbs.twimg.co...A0oF6.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.co.....e<br /><br />

https://pbs.twimg.co...AtFzk.jpg:large

[~HHN92~]

From Sail-World:

"The launch was followed by a lively party for all the team’s families; 350 guests were present, including the President of Circolo della Vela Sicilia (i.e. the challenging yacht club) Agostino Randazzo, Grant Dalton (CEO of ETNZ Emirates Team New Zealand), Steve Burrett (Commodore of the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron), the Ambassador of Italy in New Zealand Alessandro Levi- Sandri, Sir Michael Fay, and the Maori community representative Alec Hawke of Nga?ti Wha?tua o Orakei. "

Funny to see this name pop-up. Hastings, I thought he was personna non grata with the NZ AC crowd?

That's only a Yank's perception.

Does not matter to me, that is why I asked Hastings, since IIIRC he had stated Fay was not his most favorite AC personality. See his post and scarecrow's for their reasons. not mine.

I'll make a wager: the chrome comes off of the LR wing before too long.

A J35 main had a gold foil laminated to it back in the 90's by North, to protect the kevlar from uv rays supposedly. The crew could not put on enough sunscreen to keep from being cooked like a Thanksgiving turkey. LR's crew may have the same problem.

It did look pretty glistening in the early morning sun, coming up the coast off of Clearwater........................

[Alpina]

It doesn't have the dashboard ETNZ has in front of the steering wheel.

[Cobra 524]

It doesn't have the dashboard ETNZ has in front of the steering wheel.

Is this likely due to the separation of Skipper and Helm roles on LR? If Max is skippering from elsewhere on board does this mean the helm doesn't get to see all of the added info? Wouldn't you want the helm informed anyway?

Or, does it get bolted on later? Did ETNZ have theirs fitted on launch day?

[~Stingray~]

It will be fitted into their Prada sunglasses which will be also, of course, baddabum, mirrored!

[nav]

Is this likely due to the separation of Skipper and Helm roles on LR? If Max is skippering from elsewhere on board does this mean the helm doesn't get to see all of the added info? Wouldn't you want the helm informed anyway?

Or, does it get bolted on later? Did ETNZ have theirs fitted on launch day?

Nope, the dash was a later addition AFAIK.

What 'added info' by the way? Have you seen the displays? I have seen shots that show the dash and it appears to have a few buttons, but nothing I've seen yet shows any 'info' - perfectly likely though. Note that JS gets his data (or shopping lists?) via wrist-tablet.

[Cobra 524]

Ok then. Open question:

If you were standing at the helm of a 72 where would you want to be looking for your feedback data? (AWA,AWS, etc)
1. At your wrist
2. At the floor
3. At a dash mounted at waist height
4. On the back of the guy in front of you's head
5. ?

You wouldn't want to be taking your eyes to far from the action to check something. Isn't that why fighter pilots use HUD? Isn't that why Jimmy used glasses last time?

[~Stingray~]

OR is already using a variety of devices including HUD, wrist, pad; and in the most recent sails had dashboards of some kind on the back of the main beam on each side of the wing, which they called christmas trees.

They lost some of their onboard cameras during the wipeout; but were apparently using those too.

[~Stingray~]

New by KL

Larry Meets Thomas à Becket
http://blueplanettimes.com/?p=10178

[Barnyb]

Is this likely due to the separation of Skipper and Helm roles on LR? If Max is skippering from elsewhere on board does this mean the helm doesn't get to see all of the added info? Wouldn't you want the helm informed anyway?

Or, does it get bolted on later? Did ETNZ have theirs fitted on launch day?

Nope, the dash was a later addition AFAIK.

What 'added info' by the way? Have you seen the displays? I have seen shots that show the dash and it appears to have a few buttons, but nothing I've seen yet shows any 'info' - perfectly likely though. Note that JS gets his data (or shopping lists?) via wrist-tablet.

My understanding is that the boats are the same excluding jibs, genekers, foils and colour scheme. The platform and wings are the same. This was set in place on purpose so the two boats can compare performance over the next few months. So whilst there may be cosmetic differences the areas where performance improvements can be made (foils, and sails...) can be tested in an effectual 2 boat campaign (although no data exchange will take place)with the results being interprested by the individual teams and then converted into the best setup.

[Rohanoz]

Ok then. Open question:

If you were standing at the helm of a 72 where would you want to be looking for your feedback data? (AWA,AWS, etc)
1. At your wrist
2. At the floor
3. At a dash mounted at waist height
4. On the back of the guy in front of you's head
5. ?

You wouldn't want to be taking your eyes to far from the action to check something. Isn't that why fighter pilots use HUD? Isn't that why Jimmy used glasses last time?

Definitely no. 4. There's always a bloody head in the way of seeing the tell-tales or the next wave.

Otherwise, somewhere you don't have to change range of focus too much. Right next to the jib tell-tales would be perfect.

[bluelaser]

Ok then. Open question:

If you were standing at the helm of a 72 where would you want to be looking for your feedback data? (AWA,AWS, etc)
1. At your wrist
2. At the floor
3. At a dash mounted at waist height
4. On the back of the guy in front of you's head
5. ?

You wouldn't want to be taking your eyes to far from the action to check something. Isn't that why fighter pilots use HUD? Isn't that why Jimmy used glasses last time?

projected into my glasses for sure. they've got a helmet to mount to.

[~Stingray~]

New by KL

Larry Meets Thomas à Becket
http://blueplanettimes.com/?p=10178

No reactions yet?

KL is often a very astute commenter.

[SimonN]

Thanks Stingray. I had misse dthis and it will be very interesting tosee what happens. I am sure that OR and AR wil have observers on the ground in NZ. This has potential for more protests.

[Indio]

New by KL

Larry Meets Thomas à Becket
http://blueplanettimes.com/?p=10178

No reactions yet?

KL is often a very astute commenter.

He needs to refamiliarise himself with Jury Decision JN047 ...

18. The Jury Decision in AC11, and specifically paragraphs 16 and 21 when read in conjunction, does not prohibit two Competitors from engaging in training or practice racing together. This similarly applies to both Article 29.4 and 33.4.

[flutter]

Think it would be a corkscrew for the wine.

haha! yeah you're right.

[Terry Hollis]

Thanks Stingray. I had misse dthis and it will be very interesting tosee what happens. I am sure that OR and AR wil have observers on the ground in NZ. This has potential for more protests.

Let's say they find some infringement of the rules .. what is the penalty ??? .. they can hardly disqualify them both from the contest .. The AC would be ruined .

[Indio]

Thanks Stingray. I had misse dthis and it will be very interesting tosee what happens. I am sure that OR and AR wil have observers on the ground in NZ. This has potential for more protests.

Let's say they find some infringement of the rules .. what is the penalty ??? .. they can hardly disqualify them both from the contest .. The AC would be ruined .

Not that simple...

[Landlockedlubber]

Thanks Stingray. I had misse dthis and it will be very interesting tosee what happens. I am sure that OR and AR wil have observers on the ground in NZ. This has potential for more protests.

Do the Kiwis have a submarine, so they can spy on OR? And probably AR?
(Colombians make cheap ones, apparently undetectable by USN & USCG , so can get up close and personal)

[MOTH THIS]

Mr Clean looks like Max Sirena lol!

[Rapscallion]

^^

Rather interesting both, but too long - sorry

Just from Max:

- the daggerboards are not the real ones, we'll see them next week, believe different from ETNZ

- also from their experience on SL-33s the VMG difference is simply too large, foiling is a must

- experimenting on wing rake is important

- load testing can get up to 80% of design values, they did the platform upside down inside the tent, doing standing rigging now

- they do hope Naples and Venice will go ahead, they have scheduled the transfer to SF in the same period so they wouldn't waste time

- Frank Cammas is also advising on foils

The combination of a curved and L foil seems to be working very well for ENZ, will LR follow that design path?

[bluelaser]

^^

Rather interesting both, but too long - sorry

Just from Max:

- the daggerboards are not the real ones, we'll see them next week, believe different from ETNZ

- also from their experience on SL-33s the VMG difference is simply too large, foiling is a must

- experimenting on wing rake is important

- load testing can get up to 80% of design values, they did the platform upside down inside the tent, doing standing rigging now

- they do hope Naples and Venice will go ahead, they have scheduled the transfer to SF in the same period so they wouldn't waste time

- Frank Cammas is also advising on foils

The combination of a curved and L foil seems to be working very well for ENZ, will LR follow that design path?

Most likely, that's what we saw on the LR SL33

[nav]

Is this likely due to the separation of Skipper and Helm roles on LR? If Max is skippering from elsewhere on board does this mean the helm doesn't get to see all of the added info? Wouldn't you want the helm informed anyway?

Or, does it get bolted on later? Did ETNZ have theirs fitted on launch day?

Nope, the dash was a later addition AFAIK.

What 'added info' by the way? Have you seen the displays? I have seen shots that show the dash and it appears to have a few buttons, but nothing I've seen yet shows any 'info' - perfectly likely though. Note that JS gets his data (or shopping lists?) via wrist-tablet.

My understanding is that the boats are the same excluding jibs, genekers, foils and colour scheme. The platform and wings are the same. This was set in place on purpose so the two boats can compare performance over the next few months. So whilst there may be cosmetic differences the areas where performance improvements can be made (foils, and sails...) can be tested in an effectual 2 boat campaign (although no data exchange will take place)with the results being interprested by the individual teams and then converted into the best setup.

That has been stated , sure. 'Bolt for bolt' right? But I thought I noticed differences in wheels and winch layout. An extra winch even. I posted all the relevant photos I could find and also pointed out the missing dash a couple of days ago. What about the 'fuel fill' on LR? Rather hoped someone else might run their eye over the set up and confirm what I thought I was seeing or put me straight. There was only one comment - a simple 'No' (they are not the same).
There's no need to rely on prior statements - when the evidence is right there?

[maxmini]

Is this likely due to the separation of Skipper and Helm roles on LR? If Max is skippering from elsewhere on board does this mean the helm doesn't get to see all of the added info? Wouldn't you want the helm informed anyway?

Or, does it get bolted on later? Did ETNZ have theirs fitted on launch day?

Nope, the dash was a later addition AFAIK.

What 'added info' by the way? Have you seen the displays? I have seen shots that show the dash and it appears to have a few buttons, but nothing I've seen yet shows any 'info' - perfectly likely though. Note that JS gets his data (or shopping lists?) via wrist-tablet.

My understanding is that the boats are the same excluding jibs, genekers, foils and colour scheme. The platform and wings are the same. This was set in place on purpose so the two boats can compare performance over the next few months. So whilst there may be cosmetic differences the areas where performance improvements can be made (foils, and sails...) can be tested in an effectual 2 boat campaign (although no data exchange will take place)with the results being interprested by the individual teams and then converted into the best setup.

That has been stated , sure. 'Bolt for bolt' right? But I thought I noticed differences in wheels and winch layout. An extra winch even. I posted all the relevant photos I could find and also pointed out the missing dash a couple of days ago. What about the 'fuel fill' on LR? Rather hoped someone else might run their eye over the set up and confirm what I thought I was seeing or put me straight. There was only one comment - a simple 'No' (they are not the same).
There's no need to rely on prior statements - when the evidence is right there?

To elaborate on my " no " it was clear by just that one photo alone that the winch controls had been updated and it also appeared that the "gills " in the hull were also different . LR is not " bolt for bolt " but understandably a refinement to some degree of ET. Why GD chose to use that term is confusing as he had to be aware of the mods , didn't he?

[jhc]

"To elaborate on my " no " it was clear by just that one photo alone that the winch controls had been updated and it also appeared that the "gills " in the hull were also different . LR is not " bolt for bolt " but understandably a refinement to some degree of ET. Why GD chose to use that term is confusing as he had to be aware of the mods , didn't he?" (maxmini)

Sure, there are differences in the option package, and graphics, though the engineering, and tooling may be "bolt for bolt". If you were to order a $20,000,000.00 ferrari you would want a few different options! I know red painted ferraris go to the german market, while the italians prefer silver. I would say Luna Rossa72 proves that point.

The reality is that the NZ boatbuilders have successfully exported their production to Italy, where a clone, or production version, of the original has been built. Quite a feat.

Would guess that Grant Dalton had very little to do with the LR build, other than the front end agreement signed.

[PeterHuston]

"To elaborate on my " no " it was clear by just that one photo alone that the winch controls had been updated and it also appeared that the "gills " in the hull were also different . LR is not " bolt for bolt " but understandably a refinement to some degree of ET. Why GD chose to use that term is confusing as he had to be aware of the mods , didn't he?" (maxmini)

Sure, there are differences in the option package, and graphics, though the engineering, and tooling may be "bolt for bolt". If you were to order a $20,000,000.00 ferrari you would want a few different options! I know red painted ferraris go to the german market, while the italians prefer silver. I would say Luna Rossa72 proves that point.

The reality is that the NZ boatbuilders have successfully exported their production to Italy, where a clone, or production version, of the original has been built. Quite a feat.

Would guess that Grant Dalton had very little to do with the LR build, other than the front end agreement signed.

$20,000,000 Ferrari? Huh? You'd have to pretty seriously bling out a Ferrari to reach $20mm, even in Kiwi dollars.

[~Stingray~]

^ Umm, he was surely referring to the boat price

--

GD did use the 'bolt for bolt' phrase way back in Cascais at the start of the VOR, when he spoke about the new deal w LR. Haven't heard him use the phrase since then, although he may well have.

If Xlot is correct in his suspicion that the plain flap has been dropped from the ETNZ wing and replaced then since the same appears to be true of LR's then: it must have been planned some time ago; perhaps even before they ever even sailed NZ72 with the flap.

Did they make the change because of SL33 test results? Weight savings? Would be interesting to know.

[jhc]

"$20,000,000 Ferrari? Huh? You'd have to pretty seriously bling out a Ferrari to reach $20mm, even in Kiwi dollars." (ph)

Ha, ha, might blow your budget?

(I was referring to LR72)

[Xlot]

I know red painted ferraris go to the german market, while the italians prefer silver

Uh?? Most definitely not. Guy who owns one was commenting that non-red, second hand Ferraris go begging (so to speak)

[jhc]

I know red painted ferraris go to the german market, while the italians prefer silver

Uh?? Most definitely not. Guy who owns one was commenting that non-red, second hand Ferraris go begging (so to speak)

Second hand Ferrari? Please, just stop. That's a rather poor option, don't you think?

[Tony-F18]

I know red painted ferraris go to the german market, while the italians prefer silver

Uh?? Most definitely not. Guy who owns one was commenting that non-red, second hand Ferraris go begging (so to speak)

Second hand Ferrari? Please, just stop. That's a rather poor option, don't you think?

You might as well get a Porsche!

[Barnyb]

Is this likely due to the separation of Skipper and Helm roles on LR? If Max is skippering from elsewhere on board does this mean the helm doesn't get to see all of the added info? Wouldn't you want the helm informed anyway?

Or, does it get bolted on later? Did ETNZ have theirs fitted on launch day?

Nope, the dash was a later addition AFAIK.

What 'added info' by the way? Have you seen the displays? I have seen shots that show the dash and it appears to have a few buttons, but nothing I've seen yet shows any 'info' - perfectly likely though. Note that JS gets his data (or shopping lists?) via wrist-tablet.

My understanding is that the boats are the same excluding jibs, genekers, foils and colour scheme. The platform and wings are the same. This was set in place on purpose so the two boats can compare performance over the next few months. So whilst there may be cosmetic differences the areas where performance improvements can be made (foils, and sails...) can be tested in an effectual 2 boat campaign (although no data exchange will take place)with the results being interprested by the individual teams and then converted into the best setup.

That has been stated , sure. 'Bolt for bolt' right? But I thought I noticed differences in wheels and winch layout. An extra winch even. I posted all the relevant photos I could find and also pointed out the missing dash a couple of days ago. What about the 'fuel fill' on LR? Rather hoped someone else might run their eye over the set up and confirm what I thought I was seeing or put me straight. There was only one comment - a simple 'No' (they are not the same).
There's no need to rely on prior statements - when the evidence is right there?

Outline some of the areas where you think they are different and I will search my photos for the LR version. My understanding is that they built two identical craft and now they can test the foils, rudders, sails for performance gains. There will be slight diiferences as per the paint scheme but we should be focusing on those areas where there may be performance gains. One thing PB did say is that TNZ had "intellectual honesty" which is an unusual term and maybe lost a bit in translation but I took it to mean the kiwis where straight up about their technology and the agreement was honoured in every way. LR got the same tech as TNZ (and there is some more to come).

[maxmini]

Is this likely due to the separation of Skipper and Helm roles on LR? If Max is skippering from elsewhere on board does this mean the helm doesn't get to see all of the added info? Wouldn't you want the helm informed anyway?

Or, does it get bolted on later? Did ETNZ have theirs fitted on launch day?

Nope, the dash was a later addition AFAIK.

What 'added info' by the way? Have you seen the displays? I have seen shots that show the dash and it appears to have a few buttons, but nothing I've seen yet shows any 'info' - perfectly likely though. Note that JS gets his data (or shopping lists?) via wrist-tablet.

My understanding is that the boats are the same excluding jibs, genekers, foils and colour scheme. The platform and wings are the same. This was set in place on purpose so the two boats can compare performance over the next few months. So whilst there may be cosmetic differences the areas where performance improvements can be made (foils, and sails...) can be tested in an effectual 2 boat campaign (although no data exchange will take place)with the results being interprested by the individual teams and then converted into the best setup.

That has been stated , sure. 'Bolt for bolt' right? But I thought I noticed differences in wheels and winch layout. An extra winch even. I posted all the relevant photos I could find and also pointed out the missing dash a couple of days ago. What about the 'fuel fill' on LR? Rather hoped someone else might run their eye over the set up and confirm what I thought I was seeing or put me straight. There was only one comment - a simple 'No' (they are not the same).
There's no need to rely on prior statements - when the evidence is right there?

Outline some of the areas where you think they are different and I will search my photos for the LR version. My understanding is that they built two identical craft and now they can test the foils, rudders, sails for performance gains. There will be slight diiferences as per the paint scheme but we should be focusing on those areas where there may be performance gains. One thing PB did say is that TNZ had "intellectual honesty" which is an unusual term and maybe lost a bit in translation but I took it to mean the kiwis where straight up about their technology and the agreement was honoured in every way. LR got the same tech as TNZ (and there is some more to come).

Post 216 this thread . Differences in the winch controls and " gill " system to start . Possible additional drum visible as well .

[eric e]

"To elaborate on my " no " it was clear by just that one photo alone that the winch controls had been updated and it also appeared that the "gills " in the hull were also different . LR is not " bolt for bolt " but understandably a refinement to some degree of ET. Why GD chose to use that term is confusing as he had to be aware of the mods , didn't he?" (maxmini)

Sure, there are differences in the option package, and graphics, though the engineering, and tooling may be "bolt for bolt". If you were to order a $20,000,000.00 ferrari you would want a few different options! I know red painted ferraris go to the german market, while the italians prefer silver. I would say Luna Rossa72 proves that point.

The reality is that the NZ boatbuilders have successfully exported their production to Italy, where a clone, or production version, of the original has been built. Quite a feat.

Would guess that Grant Dalton had very little to do with the LR build, other than the front end agreement signed.

etnz send them bolt for bolt plans, as had no doubt been agreed

the italians built what they wanted, with different sails maybe some of the winches needed to be different locations?

what are you going to do?