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Cal 25 ?


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#1 viktor

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:22 AM

I was poking around C list today and came across a Cal 25 for sale in B'ham. Looks like a bigger sister of the 20. I Sailed a bit with my Dad on a 20 down in SF years ago, really fun little boats.I don't know much about the 25,looking for a little info from folks who have owned and/or sailed them.I could not seem to paste the ad here but the guy is asking 1,400, which, by the looks of the sails is to much ;) Thanks for any info.

#2 viktor

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:36 AM

http://sailboatdata....sp?class_id=446

#3 Gatekeeper

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:53 AM

Oh...it looks like a Tanzer 22.

(I'm trying to think of something nice to say)

#4 Ishmael

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:58 AM

They are roomy for their length, and quite quick. They look much better than most other flattops.

#5 DRIFTW00D

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:01 AM

They do have a core problem in the deck. Check for rot. A big racing fleet here.

#6 Jose Carumba

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:18 AM

Big fleets in SoCal. Nice little pocket cruisers/racers. Plywood cored decks which can rot as mentioned. The nice thing is that the decks are flat so recoring can be done fairly easily. Seal's Spars in California carries parts for the 20s and 25s. Nice lttle boats.

#7 Soņadora

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 02:57 AM

Oh...it looks like a Tanzer 22.

(I'm trying to think of something nice to say)


You could say it looks better than a Bayliner Buccaneer.

actually, I like the Cal 25s. Tanzer 22, not so much.

#8 deadbeatracer

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:09 AM

Learned to sail on a Cal 25 so I have a real soft spot for them. Kept two novices alive while cruising all over the PNW including two trips to Alaska from Olympia. I thought it was a great sailing boat but I've not sailed one in so long. A Cal 2-24 does very well racing in Portland

#9 boomer

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:36 AM

One on my dock,nice sailing boat like the Cal 20 and the Cal 28 with a decent turn of speed.Gay Morris out CYC Edmonds had a Cal 28 for quite a few years and usually always finished at the top of the fleet. I'm talking overall, not just on handicap, against much more modern designs. After being virtually unbeatable in his Cal 28 for years, he finally replaced her with a Hotfoot 31.

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#10 boomer

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:39 AM

Posted Image

#11 jhiller

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:11 AM

Still a pretty active class of them in the Detroit area. I think they are quite a good little boat

#12 Ajax

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:11 PM

Big Cal 25 racing population in the Annapolis area.

The pros seem to be: Cheap, durable, prolific, simple, small enough to affordably equip with high-tech rigging and sails.
Con: Older design, so not the fastest sled out there.

#13 Jose Carumba

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:10 PM

Posted Image


Cliff Estes, who sits next to me here at work, says he "just gets no respect." Just sayin...

#14 Ishmael

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:27 PM


Posted Image


Cliff Estes, who sits next to me here at work, says he "just gets no respect." Just sayin...


Tell him to start shooting in focus, that will help a lot.

#15 Jose Carumba

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:35 PM



Posted Image


Cliff Estes, who sits next to me here at work, says he "just gets no respect." Just sayin...


Tell him to start shooting in focus, that will help a lot.


I did that. He laughed. He's basically an all right guy.

#16 boomer

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:50 PM

FWIW....those were originally much better images....pulled them off an old Sailing Anarchy post from way back....the original file is probably much better.


With the server changes, the files degraded. When that happens, they become corrupted. Digital images don't degrade, unless their digital file gets corrupted.

#17 Ishmael

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:55 PM

Boomer, I have never seen a digital file become out of focus from being corrupted, and I have been working with digital for a long time. Corrupted digital files generally don't work at all or, best case, they produce a section of image.
I can see a file becoming unsharp because too many servers have resized it, but that's it.

#18 Jose Carumba

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:58 PM

Boomer, yes, you can tell because the copyright stamp is out of focus too.

Edit: Ish I think it may have been the too many servers thing.

#19 Bob Perry

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

While you guys are posting Cal flat tops someone should dig up a pic of the flat top Cal 40 from Tacoma. There was a strange looking but very effective boat. I think it was called WHITE SQUALL. I used to race against it. Not sure what the story behind that version was or if they ever built another flat top 40. It was less than beautiful.

#20 Jose Carumba

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:43 PM

Bob,

White Squall still races regularly out of TYC. We in the Cal 20 fleet call her Mom. Sometimes for our series races she will tow us Cal 20s out to the course in Quartermaster Harbor, like baby ducks behind their mother.

Attached File  GT Race 02-27-11 046-2.jpg   287.19K   133 downloads Attached File  White Squall & Chicks.jpg   135.44K   155 downloads

#21 Bob Perry

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:08 PM

Jose:
I'ts kind of like an ugly dog. It's so ugly you have to love it. That boat has been racing here since I was in high school.

#22 boomer

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

Yup...Good old White Squall.

Boomer, I have never seen a digital file become out of focus from being corrupted, and I have been working with digital for a long time. Corrupted digital files generally don't work at all or, best case, they produce a section of image.
I can see a file becoming unsharp because too many servers have resized it, but that's it.


Corruption is permanent and happened frequently with Vista. Although random, it was like pictures were overlayed with a masking color of either(blue/red/green). The mask was like you'd layered a tint wheel over parts of the picture. The second problem was shifting, portions shifted down 2-3 pixels, This has been discussed on Microsoft's forums as well.


.

#23 sam_crocker

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:06 PM

By the looks of it, I think that jib was probably used when you were in high school too.

#24 Bob Perry

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:05 PM

"Corruption is permanent"? I'm fucked.

#25 steele

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:19 PM

I have always like the cal 27 for a small boat, although have never sailed one,
Attached File  3mf3M63Fc5Fc5X25J1cau7ba96749f524150f.jpg   47.06K   3 downloads

This has been on CL for a while, http://seattle.craig...3374884784.html
Although more money than the 25, It still looks to be a good deal, and is a more modern boat with some nice features. I have no interest in the boat or owner. Given the season and our current weather you might get it for less.

#26 trevoryx

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:55 AM

we sure do like our flat top 28... though the vintage genoa is now retired.
Posted Image

#27 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:19 AM

Trev:
She is a beauty. I don't think Bill Lapwporth ever drew a dog.
Very nice photo too.
I never quite warmd up to the Cal 34 but that's probably my problem.
I loved the old pre IOR Cal 30 and the Cal 29.

If I were a happy guy with happy thoughts I'd like to try and buy a nice old Cal 40. I think that would suit me. If it had a tiller.
Trying to imagine what it would feel like to walk down the dock at Shishole and see a nice Cal 40 sitting in my slip.

#28 Elegua

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:08 AM

A Cal 25 was my family's first cruising boat before they moved on to bigger things. We loved that thing. We went everywhere on LIS at 4kts and eating one pot meals out of a sea-swing.

#29 viktor

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:39 PM

Thanks for all the info guys. Went to look at her,pretty rough shape, think I'll pass. It's funny that Cal 2/27 was in the yard where I work.I didn't see a for sale sign on it ,nice looking boat. Was that flat top Cal 40 designed and built that way or did someone cut the deck off a production C 40 and build that deck on it? I think it's kinda cool looking,in a odd sort of way.

#30 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:55 PM

Bob,

The old original Cal-30 used to just clean up in PHRF races in So. Cal. Darn thing was unbeatable and TOUGH. We'd be on a 40'er and look up as we rounded the windward mark on a really rough day and that darned Cal-30 would be there right behind us. They are still amazingly good boats, IMHO.

I think this one is up your way:

Posted Image

#31 boomer

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:07 PM

The Cal 28 was the largest production flush deck made by Jensen, with the exception of the single one off Cal 40 WHITE SQUALL here in the NW.

#32 Jose Carumba

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:40 PM

My friend's dad raced an old Cal 30 out of King Harbor yacht Club back in the day. Supposedly did well with it.

White Squall is the only Cal 40 built wth a raised deck. There is a story about the first owner gathering enough potential owners to convince Cal to make the tooling, then they backed out leaving only the first guy to get the boat. Maybe Beau knows the full story.

#33 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:28 PM

Jose,

I've heard that story around - 'bout the aircraft carrier Cal-40. I can't say that I ever heard Jack Jensen or George Griffith talk about it, so can't confirm its accuracy. Jack had a habit of telling folks: "You get me 10 guys to buy this ___ (fill in the blank) and I'll build it." He certainly did that with George and the Cal-40 and it made him a small fortune. But that was because the Cal-40 was such a "crazy and dangerous design" (a direct quote from a LAYC member in about 1965) and Jack wasn't really sure anyone would buy the darn things. I'm pretty sure Jack was as surprised as anyone that the Cal-40 sold well. He said a number of times that he knew it would be fast, but didn't think it would sell well.

BV

#34 SemiSalt

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:52 PM

Aside from the Cal 40, I think the Lapworth/Jensen boat that caused the most fuss was the 2-30. It was the first production racer/cruiser with a reverse transom, so it looked very radical to the amateur eye. It was the subject of much discussion for months in Yachting and the other mags of the day.

It doesn't look so far out now.

Attached File  cal_30-2_photo.jpg   85K   18 downloads

#35 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:10 PM

Semi:L
That was a great design. Not sure it was the first production boat with a reverse transom though. Have you ever checked out the Rawson 26 designed by Ben Seaborn? I'd bet you a beer that the Rawson predates the Cal.

#36 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:13 PM

Beau:L
I hate to admit it but I'm not sure I have ever seen that Cal 30 model before. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Now, how did that slip by me?

#37 olaf hart

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:25 PM

Trev:
She is a beauty. I don't think Bill Lapwporth ever drew a dog.
Very nice photo too.
I never quite warmd up to the Cal 34 but that's probably my problem.
I loved the old pre IOR Cal 30 and the Cal 29.

If I were a happy guy with happy thoughts I'd like to try and buy a nice old Cal 40. I think that would suit me. If it had a tiller.
Trying to imagine what it would feel like to walk down the dock at Shishole and see a nice Cal 40 sitting in my slip.


Belief follows behaviour, behaviour doesn't follow belief.
Neuroplasticity is our friend.

#38 SemiSalt

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:55 PM

Semi:L
That was a great design. Not sure it was the first production boat with a reverse transom though. Have you ever checked out the Rawson 26 designed by Ben Seaborn? I'd bet you a beer that the Rawson predates the Cal.


I'd never bet against Seaborn being ahead of his times.

#39 MidPack

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:13 PM

Posted Image

Wow, couldn't they find a headsail with more overlap? Maybe run the genoa sheet through the aft spinnaker blocks...and have the driver trim. Ultimate singlehander...

FWIW, I know someone with a Cal 29-2 (2-29?) and it's noticeably faster than it looks.

#40 Joli

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:57 PM

Cal 29's are great boats!

#41 boomer

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:45 PM

Wow, couldn't they find a headsail with more overlap? Maybe run the genoa sheet through the aft spinnaker blocks...and have the driver trim. Ultimate singlehander...


Looks like a 150, which was the right sail for the conditions. It was a light air crossing that morning,coming up on the mark it was maybe 7/8 kts at the most. FWIW.... You put the skipper of that boat in any boat of any fleet, be it class or handicap sailing, he's gonna finish in the money. He's an exceptional sailor and not many sailors in the average fleet could make a Cal 28 do what he did with it. He did a horizon job on the Cal 2-29 that was in that race BTW

When using a telephoto lens, and shooting a boat head, you get a compression of distance. Perspective is focal length related in near to far shots. You'll note in the side on view of the boat, which isn't a near to far perspective, you don't get the compression.

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#42 MidPack

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:08 PM


Wow, couldn't they find a headsail with more overlap? Maybe run the genoa sheet through the aft spinnaker blocks...and have the driver trim. Ultimate singlehander...


Looks like a 150, which was the right sail for the conditions. It was a light air crossing that morning,coming up on the mark it was maybe 7/8 kts at the most. FWIW.... You put the skipper of that boat in any boat of any fleet, be it class or handicap sailing, he's gonna finish in the money. He's an exceptional sailor and not many sailors in the average fleet could make a Cal 28 do what he did with it. He did a horizon job on the Cal 2-29 that was in that race BTW

When using a telephoto lens, and shooting a boat head, you get a compression of distance. Perspective is focal length related in near to far shots. You'll note in the side on view of the boat, which isn't a near to far perspective, you don't get the compression.

Yes we know, it was a joke...

#43 trevoryx

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:30 PM

a 150? Our light air sail is a 170... and it does sheet to the spin blocks.
And thanks, bob - the compliment means a lot coming from you.

#44 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:45 PM

Semi:
Seaborn was drawing reverse transoms in the 50's. He had the Seafair class, the Sierra class and the custom SEA FEVER great boats with fin keels and spade rudders, SEA FEVER's rudder was on a skeg but they all had reverse transoms. The Seafair class and the Sierras also had reverse sheers. Ben knew what he was doing. It's too bad he didn't live long enough to see the success of the Thunderbird class. It would be fun to see a design time line comparing Ben's work to Lapworth's work. Ben not only designed fast boats but he had the eye for a beautiful line too. When I was 16 years old I did quite a bit of racing on a Seaborn 42'er, WE'RE HERE. It was a very handsome design.

#45 SemiSalt

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:53 PM

FWIW, the reference I found on the web dates the Rawson 26 to 1960 and the Cal 2-30 to 1968.

Attached File  rawson_26_drawing.jpg   51.79K   30 downloads


I shouldn't have been so quick to proclaim the 2-30 to be first in any particular way without research. I can't find anything on the web from 1968 except some advertising copy. I would need to find a library with a good collection of sailing mags from back in the day.

It's hard to imagine now, but 30-foot cruiser/racers like this were big-time racing boats in 1968. George Cuthbertson raced his 30' Corvette in the SORC that year. Quote: Ian Morch skippered, with George Cuthbertson, boat-builder George Hinterhoeller, designer Bruce Kirby, and the owner, Gordon Stonehouse, as crew.

#46 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 06:47 PM

SemI:
I could be wrong but I think the grp Rawson 26 morphed out of the timber built Sierra 26 class. So the Sierra would have even been earlier. I mayb be getting the Seafair and the Sierra classes mixed up. Maybe Boomer can do some work on that for us. I have raced against a Rawson 26 and it is a very quick boat today. My secretary years ago bought one called SKINNYDIPPER. That boat ruled the Duck Dodge for several years under its previous owner. Look how far aft the keel is on the Rawson. As far as I have been able to research Seaborn was the first designer to lay out his keel lines using chord and percentage of chord breakdowns for the foils. I have this idea that he had been hanging out with some Boeing engineers. His actual foils were a bit funky but he was clearly treating the keel like it was a wing. This is back in the day when a lot of good race boats ( K-40, Alberg 35 etc) still had full keels. Several years ago I wrote an article, I think it was for WOODEN BOAT, on the evolution of Seaborn's designs. Bill Garden tried his hand at some Seaborn "inspired" type designs (Gulf 40 for one) but they were dogs.

#47 Great Red Shark

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

What is the correct name for that flat-decked style like so many of the early Cals ? raised Fore-deck I what I've always used.

Cal 20, Cal 24, Cal 2-24, Cal 25, Cal 28, Cal 29..... (more models at every foot than anyone until J-boats)

Others:
Islander __ ( bahama ? )


Woodies:
Bird Class


While the interior volume aspect can't be argued, making them attractive is certainly a challenge.

#48 Ishmael

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:16 PM

I have always called them "flush-deck" if I have to be nice.

#49 Jose Carumba

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:17 PM

I've always used raised foredeck to describe them (edit or flushdeck like Ish), but I think I like flat top better.

#50 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:18 PM

Shark:
I would refer to it as a "raised deck" design.
I think I like "flat top" better.

#51 Jose Carumba

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:20 PM

Thinking on the same wavelength I think.

#52 Jose Carumba

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:22 PM

I don't find the Cal flat tops objectionable. They're roughly like a simplified Stone Horse, but not quite as good looking IMO.

#53 SemiSalt

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:44 PM

I would refer to it as a "raised deck" design.


It would be "riz deck" north of Cape Ann.

#54 trevoryx

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:03 PM

I don't find the Cal flat tops objectionable. They're roughly like a simplified Stone Horse, but not quite as good looking IMO.


also $33,000 less expensive. But you're right, the Stone Horses are much much prettier.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2418296&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public

#55 Great White

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:14 PM

Semi:
Seaborn was drawing reverse transoms in the 50's. He had the Seafair class, the Sierra class and the custom SEA FEVER great boats with fin keels and spade rudders, SEA FEVER's rudder was on a skeg but they all had reverse transoms. The Seafair class and the Sierras also had reverse sheers. Ben knew what he was doing. It's too bad he didn't live long enough to see the success of the Thunderbird class. It would be fun to see a design time line comparing Ben's work to Lapworth's work. Ben not only designed fast boats but he had the eye for a beautiful line too. When I was 16 years old I did quite a bit of racing on a Seaborn 42'er, WE'RE HERE. It was a very handsome design.

It was always interesting to me when talking to Tbird sailors, they said that the Rawson 26 predated the Tbird. I had always thought it was the other way that the Rawson followed the Tbird.

There was a Seaborn 32, Tbird spinoff in Poulsbo named Rainbird. It sort of resembled the Tbird with the reverse transom and chines, but the proportions were not the same and it had a clunkier appearance. It was fast though! It was the boat to beat in the early 70's in the Bremerton area.

I remember Skinnydipper. When we used to race small boats in the Tri Point Series and Blakely Rocks in the mid 70's, Skinnydipper was one of the boats to beat. We had another one in the Port Orchard area, but they were not as succesful.

#56 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:16 PM


I don't find the Cal flat tops objectionable. They're roughly like a simplified Stone Horse, but not quite as good looking IMO.


also $33,000 less expensive. But you're right, the Stone Horses are much much prettier.

http://www.yachtworl...D&access=Public


Wow - he's pretty proud of that boat, isn't he?

#57 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:58 PM

I never found any of the Lapworth designs to be pretty boats when I was young. Not even the Cal 40. But they were all such great performers that they started to look good to me over time. Now I look at those flat top Cals as good boats that have proven their worth over many years and in that light they look good to me now. I think it was the 2-30 that was unbeatable for a couple of years on Puget Sound. NORN was it's name as I recall. It had a very short bowsprit added.

#58 Great Red Shark

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:12 PM

Senior Red Shark crewman, the ever-faithful, blue collar, long suffering Swenny of many a tale recently purchased a Cal-25 much like the one he owned 25 years ago. "It's like a '60s mini-bus inside - all original..." He loves it and that all that's matters - I helped him re-rig it - Lord what a phone-pole of a mast.

Biggest surprise ? For such an unwieldy-looking craft, sails just fine. Has about 3x the interior space of my Sonoma. (but I'll stick with mine - I'm still a sucker for Carl's stuff and spoiled by the performance.)

Yesterday was a bit somber - stopped by the WYC and across the way the State Harbors guys were demolishing a nice old Gardner woodie. Looked to be an early 60s build, 40 foot motorsailor, flush-decked with a Pilor house, ketch rigged. Deck was at least 2.5 inches thick.

Yet another derelict they didn't want to end up on a reef, so the crane and excavator took it to bits while fully intact.

Ugh.

The price of neglect. I wish I could have filmed it and then made every starry-eyed dreamer watch it - THIS is what happens when you leave a perfectly good boat to the elements out of broke-ass apathy !

#59 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:15 PM

"Gardner" or Garden?
There was a Gardner. He designed the Star.

#60 Great Red Shark

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:30 PM

Sorry, sloppy fingers. Garden - as ID'd by a neighbor of my with a big Brewer & a love of motorsailers that's had a few woodies. Looked similar to 'Truant' to me.


Mmmmmm Star-boats....

#61 boomer

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 04:09 AM

The Ben Seaborn designed 26' Sierra was the inspiration for the Tbird in '57/'58 in collaboration with Ed Hoppen and his shipwrights Phil Manley and Herb Schuey, who figured out how to build the Tbird. Tom Sias, a Tacoma sailor and employee of the Douglas Fir Plywood Association was the instigator of the Tbird design. The Rawson 26 was inspired by both the Sierra 26 and the Tbird and was designed in '59/'60 and production began by Rawson in '60.

Some excerpts from longtime Tbird sailor Steve Bunnel, from the article he wrote in the August of '99 issue of Woodenboat Magazine.


At the request of the Plywood Association, in 1957 Tom Sias mailed out design requests for a plywood sailboat that “. . . must be both a racing and cruising boat . . . sleep four . . . (be) capable of being built by reasonable-skilled amateurs . . . be powered by an outboard auxiliary . . . and . . . outperform other sailboats in its class.” The return for the winning design would be a one time fee - no future royalties to be paid, no further commissions. Reportedly, the Plywood Association letters were opened, laughed at and thrown away. It was generally held that the curves of traditional sailboat hulls were simply impossible in plywood construction. Plus, this particular commission paid no royalties. Forget it!

Which is what Ben Seaborn initially did. But either out of economic need or professional challenge, he began to muse over the possibilities. Working from his 26’ Sierra design, he fooled around with cardboard pieces and twisted them into a possible shape. Knowing that Ed Hoppen was intrigued by the possibility of plywood sailboats, Ben took his little “origami” model down to Hoppen’s Eddon Boat Works in Gig Harbor, Washington and asked; “Think you could build that out of plywood?” Hoppen took on the challenge.

Working in and around other demands, Hoppen and shipwrights Phil Manley and Herb Schuey not only configured the new boat, they also devised a non-lofting method of home construction employing 1/2” plywood molds which metamorphosed into permanent bulkheads. Over the molds came layers of longitudinal stringers and marine plywood sealed with fiberglass. In a then unusual move, they built the hull upside down (a procedure that prompted a visiting naval architect to sniff that they had accidentally reversed the transom because “. . . that’s what happens when you try to build upside down!”)

The complexity of that first building process can’t be underestimated. Not only were Hoppen and crew executing Seaborn’s Sierra out of new materials, they were also developing a step-by-step process for amateur builders. They consulted with Robert Price, a Tacoma naval architect, regarding the interior layout and legend has it that Ed and Ben went through some 13 rudder prototypes before settling on the final spade shape (since replaced by a deeper “high aspect” rudder for greater control when heeled).

The new boat’s performance exceeded all expectations, matching or surpassing Ben’s Sierra design on all points of sail. When Seaborn conducted some of the early Thunderbird sea trials, he was amazed.

Over a year in “development,” Thunderbird #1 was launched in November of 1958. (Coming full circle, Thunderbird #1 came again to be owned by Ed Hoppen’s son Guy Hoppen, who donated it to the Gig Harbor Peninsula Historical Museum.) From the beginning, the boat generated both fascination and ridicule (“looks like they forgot to take it out the box,” and even builder Hoppen admitted that the boat “. . . was kinda funny looking.”) But as the boat proved amazingly fast in Tacoma area races and several magazine articles lauded its cruising capabilities, public interest grew.



The Rawson 26 was inspired by both the Sierra 26 and the Tbird and was designed in '59/'60 and production began by Rawson in '60. Ben Seaborn had been doddling with designs of sailboats that were lighter then the displacement hulls, since WW II. The Laurent Giles' designed Myth of Malham was a major influence on Seaborn's thinking postwar. The year after Myth of Malham made her debut, the Seaborn designed Nautilus III was launched. The Nautilus had obvious similarities to the Myth of Malham.

The 32' Seaborn that Dan/Great White spoke of, was one of the better built and better looking 32's, actually known as the Pacific class. The Pacific class thought to be inspired by the Tbird, and to me she was a big Tbird, was actually insprired by the 1953 Seaborn designed 32' Seafair. The 32' Pacific class were usually turned out by yards in California, the NW and in Japan. The Japanese built versions though they had an excellent build quality, had a somewhat fugly house.

Ben Seaborn was a child prodigy and designed the Circe which won the Swiftsure in 1934...Ben was 17 when he designed her for his stepfather in 1932, but that's a whole nother story in itself. To tell the story requires going back further into Ben and his twin brother Jack's childhood.

Some talk of Ben committing suicide because he felt himself a failure in boat design, AFAIC the only one who thought Ben a failure in boat design was his pushy and driven wife. They had seperated at the time and she died. Ben commited suicide within a month at the age of 45. Ben was far from a failure in boat and ship design.

#62 Jose Carumba

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 04:24 AM

Huh. The Sias family lived about a block away from my boyhood home. I never knew they were sailors.

#63 boomer

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:39 PM

From Steve Bunnel's Woodenboat article...."Convergence - that’s what really created the Thunderbird. The convergence of marine plywood, postwar prosperity and the demand for affordable sailboats set the stage for key actors Ed Hoppen and Ben Seaborn. Tom Sias, a Tacoma sailor and employee of the Douglas Fir Plywood Association first “produced” the Thunderbird “play” in 1957."

Edit:Hoppen himself later designed and built three 32’ “Plimsol” class boats based upon Thunderbird lines and construction methods. Ben Seaborn designed the Pacific class based on his 32' Seafair using same hard chine plywood concept. Both these boats look similar.

#64 Bob Perry

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:02 PM

I used to race against Hoppen's 40' T bird. It was sort of odd looking and as I recall it had a funny wishbone tiller designed so he could stick his ass in it and drive with his hands free. I don't recall it being particularily fast but it was distinctive.
I designed a boat for one of Ben's last clients. When SEA FEVER was being built the partners were well aware of how fragile Ben's mental health was and as my client tells the story they tried to take turns watching over Ben.

#65 boomer

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:30 PM

His father took his own life as well....scroll up a page or two for more on Ben and Jack Seaborn.

http://books.google....seaborn&f=false

#66 Bob Perry

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:50 PM

Boomer:
That is an amazing book. I know most of the names and I think I actually sailed with Ellis Provine on OCEANUS.
I've never seen that book. Do you think it's available now?

#67 boomer

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:53 PM

Quite a bit of local history in that book. My former secretary's birthday tonight, I should wander over to Seattle early.

A few nautical books I've been thinking of picking up, including one I saw in your office.

http://www.amazon.co...sl_1ha7x09lxz_e

http://www.barnesand...hard/1102877468

http://www.captainsn...n-Shavings.html

#68 Bob Perry

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:57 PM

Just ordered it. Thanks.

#69 boomer

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 04:03 PM

Your welcome!

#70 blurocketsmate

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

I never found any of the Lapworth designs to be pretty boats when I was young. Not even the Cal 40. But they were all such great performers that they started to look good to me over time. Now I look at those flat top Cals as good boats that have proven their worth over many years and in that light they look good to me now. I think it was the 2-30 that was unbeatable for a couple of years on Puget Sound. NORN was it's name as I recall. It had a very short bowsprit added.


I'm a huge fan of Lapworth Cals, all sweet sailing boats. The look has grown on me too.

Blurocket One and Two were a Cal 25 and Cal 230. Blurocket loved them both, but especially the 230 that he won a lot of races with.

I've only sailed a Cal 25 a couple of times. It sails like a Cal -- all good. There's an elegance to the design that's underappreciated. The flattop gives sitting and lounging room that's rare on a boat this size.

One week in Desolation Sound, we were tailed by a family in a Cal 25. We'd arrive early, to get a good spot for our 50 footer. They'd sail in 3-4 hours later, and always found a good spot. They'd go ashore for oysters, and to play under the waterfalls, just like us. Then they'd break out their barbecue, just like us. The four of them were having just as much fun, on a boat half the length, and one eighth the displacement.

The $5-8k being asked for some very well sorted Cal 25s is a heck of a deal.

#71 Yesac13

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:35 PM

A bit of a thread drift but I found a Cal 40 for sale in Maine. Only 8k.

It's a project boat. Rotten bulkhead and decks but has a newer Forespar tapered mast and a Yanmar with 150 hours. Everything is there including sails, etc.

Located in Edgecomb, Maine. Look in Craigslist Maine, I'm not linking because craigslist links break all of the time.

If I was foolish, I would be all over this Cal 40 but the cost of properly restoring the boat is far greater than 8k. Cal 40s are not particularly popular around Maine, Mainers prefer full keels so to slide over lobster buoys nice and good with no snagging. Hence the low, low price. Its realistic considering the amount of work needed ,though.

#72 valcour

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:52 PM

I started another thread with the CL link to the cal 40 in question. Also talked to the current owner. Pics may be forthcoming.

#73 hobot

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:34 PM

His father took his own life as well....scroll up a page or two for more on Ben and Jack Seaborn.

http://books.google....seaborn&f=false


great PNW historical read!




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