29 replies to this topic

[Xlot]

Since they sponsor this forum (oddly enough, in preference to the MH one), worth reading this interview on Cat Sailing News, AC72s are inevitably discussed too

http://www.catsailingnews.com/

Times really are a-changing: double S foils, L rudders, weather foil pulling down, almost flat bottoms .. Martin Fischer's plate is quite full, let's hope it works

[hoom]

Is that your site? It seems to be from someone who posts here.

This is interesting too http://www.catsailin...i-5-factor.html
Covers some of the design choices relative to Dogzilla/Alinghi.
I find it quite fascinating & had been meaning to post something similar.

A gross simplification but you could sort of put it like this:
Oracle took the platform of Dogzilla & mated it with the hulls of Alinghi but with the freeboard of Dogzilla.
ETNZ took the platform of Alinghi & mated it with the amas of Dogzilla but with the freeboard of Alinghi.

Oracles board lifting system seems more like the final Alinghi setup.
ETNZ obviously took the Alinghi S foils, made them work properly & took them a step further.
Artemis seems to have similar board setup to Dogzilla?

[Xlot]

Is that your site? It seems to be from someone who posts here.

No / Yes (from Argentina)

[Occams Razor]

anyone have links to how the S-foils work?

[bluelaser]

anyone have links to how the S-foils work?

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=-_BR_ey2f9o

[Xlot]

Whatever (freely admit belonging to a generation that doesn't 'get' foiling). But don't understand why the rudder cassette has to be so short, and shudder thinking of the humongous loads the vertical blade can generate ..

[bluelaser]

Whatever (freely admit belonging to a generation that doesn't 'get' foiling). But don't understand why the rudder cassette has to be so short, and shudder thinking of the humongous loads the vertical blade can generate ..

I don't know, but they're rather sexy:



It makes me wonder what they're going to use as the hold down for the rudders with "500 KG" of lift.

[Dead air]

Judging by the holes in the side, a rope over the top, maybe with a spreader plate will cope with 500kg fairly easily. The interesting bit is transferring that load into the ill through the gudgeons and pintels, possibly mounted from underneath rather than dropped on?

[Scarecrow]

I'm thinking the rudder cases are short so the rudders can be fully retracted behind the transom for launching, sitting on the hard etc.

[SimonN]

Martin Fischer used this design for an A Class last year. There was a lot of debate as to why it didn't work. Martin claimed that it was simply a matter of the foils not being big enough and that it would work on an A if the foils were bigger. Others, including somebody who atempted to race one at the 2011 worlds, theought the concept wouldn't work on an A. I should add that by "work", I mean faster than other A's.

I do hope that they get it to work on this boat because it looks a great project. As a one design, these foils might well give another dimension to sailing that you wouldn't get with "regular" boards and therefore it isn't relevent whether it makes the boat faster or not, because the point is to enhance the racing.

[BAR KARATE]

It should be fun once we get our hands on it, that is after the youth AC teams are finished with it .....

[thetruth]

Good old Max and Waimer. This will be interesting after the huge success of the Farr 400. Must be a shit load of money in mosque domes..........................

[macca]

Hey there "truth" perhaps you should be checking your facts before you put your foot up your ass yet again..

Firstly: the GC32 is a stand alone project, PCT are the builder of the hulls.

And the owners of PCT are Hannes and Max, Waimer is their last name as they are brothers.

[Xlot]

I'm thinking the rudder cases are short so the rudders can be fully retracted behind the transom for launching, sitting on the hard etc.

Yes that would be the "logical" explanation, but beach launching a 32 footer? And the drawback's both obvious and severe

[Tony-F18]

Maybe not a beach, but a slipway should be possible (I think that's what they do with the Ex40s).

Macca: Will these boats make it to Europe? Are they sold separately or is it suppose to be a circuit/tour?

[macca]

Slipway launching is easy to do with the hull trolleys, boat is light and can easily be pushed around.

Regatta series for Europe is well under way with planning, 5 events in nice places, plus a Middle East series for the winter.

Boat 1 will be at the dusseldorf boat show in January if I can convince the owner to leave the sunshine of Dubai in the middle of winter!

[macca]

Martin Fischer used this design for an A Class last year. There was a lot of debate as to why it didn't work. Martin claimed that it was simply a matter of the foils not being big enough and that it would work on an A if the foils were bigger. Others, including somebody who atempted to race one at the 2011 worlds, theought the concept wouldn't work on an A. I should add that by "work", I mean faster than other A's.

I do hope that they get it to work on this boat because it looks a great project. As a one design, these foils might well give another dimension to sailing that you wouldn't get with "regular" boards and therefore it isn't relevent whether it makes the boat faster or not, because the point is to enhance the racing.

The main issue with the A class is the lack of a big front sail for downwind.... That really makes it easier to get up on the foils like the recent pics of the Phantom flying easily with the kite up..

The testing on the M2 with same foils has shown that it works on bigger boats as well, so we are really keen to get the GC32 on the water next week and kick to class off!

[SimonN]

The main issue with the A class is the lack of a big front sail for downwind.... That really makes it easier to get up on the foils like the recent pics of the Phantom flying easily with the kite up..

I think you could well be right on this. A's are a very strange beast in this respect. I think that you simply get too much drag from the foils for the amount of power from the boat. A's seem to be all about drag reduction. It's certainly good to see it working well on the Phantom. Again, the important thing to me isn't whether it is faster or not, after all, it's a one design, but whether it adds to the overall experience. It's like the Moth - it's not just about absolute speed (although it helps) but its also about the pure sensation and the challenge of mastering foiling.

[insider]

Good old Max and Waimer. This will be interesting after the huge success of the Farr 400. Must be a shit load of money in mosque domes..........................

There certainly is a shit load of money in Mosque domes. And clock towers with 150ft faces:

Problem with Hannes and Max is their relationship with Farr Yacht design. Both are good guys though and have a real passion for yachting.

[Large Thomas]

The testing on the M2 with same foils has shown that it works on bigger boats as well, so we are really keen to get the GC32 on the water next week and kick to class off!

How does the M2 play into this?

And sure, a passion for yachting there is in PCT. Simply depends on who's working on the hulls.

[macca]

The testing on the M2 with same foils has shown that it works on bigger boats as well, so we are really keen to get the GC32 on the water next week and kick to class off!

How does the M2 play into this?

And sure, a passion for yachting there is in PCT. Simply depends on who's working on the hulls.

The M2 has a very similar foil system fitted to it, so it was quite useful in confirming the design performance.

As for who is working on the hulls at PCT, I would trust anyone in their marine team to build my boats, the team there are exceptional both in terms of output, commitment and skills. I dont know of any another 10m multihull that has less than 800grams variation in hull weight (first 4 hulls). As a one design builder its pretty much impossible to beat.

[Xlot]

First sail pictures on catsailingnews. No foiling yet, but it looks like they came to their senses and fitted a more normal rudder cassette.

"SS" boards (or Kriss daggers?) look really weird ..

[macca]

The rudder cassette was always the design you see in the photos.

All the tricky bits like foil control and rudders worked perfectly well right out if the box. That's a big achievement I can tell you!!

We continue testing in a couple of weeks. Hopefully we get more breeze!

[Xlot]

^^

Clearly, you'd know best - but it does seem different from the rendering on ACA index page

[Large Thomas]

The testing on the M2 with same foils has shown that it works on bigger boats as well, so we are really keen to get the GC32 on the water next week and kick to class off!

How does the M2 play into this?

And sure, a passion for yachting there is in PCT. Simply depends on who's working on the hulls.

The M2 has a very similar foil system fitted to it, so it was quite useful in confirming the design performance.

As for who is working on the hulls at PCT, I would trust anyone in their marine team to build my boats, the team there are exceptional both in terms of output, commitment and skills. I dont know of any another 10m multihull that has less than 800grams variation in hull weight (first 4 hulls). As a one design builder its pretty much impossible to beat.

I wasn't aware the M2 had that one fitted. Since when do they use it? Do all boats have it now?

As to the team at PCT, I just saw the build crew, and I'll put my full confidence behind them. They're certainly dedicated workers, and they should know their craft well by now. Do you know who supervises them?

Also, is it too early yet to talk prices for the finished boat sans sails?

[macca]

I wasn't aware the M2 had that one fitted. Since when do they use it? Do all boats have it now?

As to the team at PCT, I just saw the build crew, and I'll put my full confidence behind them. They're certainly dedicated workers, and they should know their craft well by now. Do you know who supervises them?

Also, is it too early yet to talk prices for the finished boat sans sails?

There is one M2 that has been converted to this foil type, in tests against a standard M2 it was considerably quicker.

The build team at PCT for the GC32 is directly run by Darren Schofield who has built everything from the assassin moths, to Elliot sports yachts and even Bruno Trouble's personal yacht. So as you can imagine the quality of finish is perfect.

A complete GC32 is under 180k Euro sans sails.

[Large Thomas]

I wasn't aware the M2 had that one fitted. Since when do they use it? Do all boats have it now?

As to the team at PCT, I just saw the build crew, and I'll put my full confidence behind them. They're certainly dedicated workers, and they should know their craft well by now. Do you know who supervises them?

Also, is it too early yet to talk prices for the finished boat sans sails?

There is one M2 that has been converted to this foil type, in tests against a standard M2 it was considerably quicker.

The build team at PCT for the GC32 is directly run by Darren Schofield who has built everything from the assassin moths, to Elliot sports yachts and even Bruno Trouble's personal yacht. So as you can imagine the quality of finish is perfect.

A complete GC32 is under 180k Euro sans sails.

I'll forgive you for maybe not making the M2 fly (it just isn't made for that) but I sure do hope that the GC32 will fly soon!

I'm sure that the quality of finish is beautiful as we've seen it on photos, and that Darren and his people put a huge effort into making is a good boat. The frame of weight difference you mentioned they're moving in is impressive.

How fast can PCT produce these hulls? My guess was for a pair each week if they have two sets of moulds? Given that you want to start your circuit by May next year you'll have to put out boats fast enough for this now.

On your website it says that North produces the sails. Would it be possible to freely chose the sail maker or would your class insist on North?

[macca]

I'll forgive you for maybe not making the M2 fly (it just isn't made for that) but I sure do hope that the GC32 will fly soon!

I'm sure that the quality of finish is beautiful as we've seen it on photos, and that Darren and his people put a huge effort into making is a good boat. The frame of weight difference you mentioned they're moving in is impressive.

How fast can PCT produce these hulls? My guess was for a pair each week if they have two sets of moulds? Given that you want to start your circuit by May next year you'll have to put out boats fast enough for this now.

On your website it says that North produces the sails. Would it be possible to freely chose the sail maker or would your class insist on North?

Making the M2 fly is no problem, just need more wind than is normal on the lake...

PCT and the rest of the build partners like Heol and Southerns can turn out a boat every 3 weeks.

The class rules stipulate that you are free to choose your sail maker, as long as they comply to the measurements in the rules and there is also a limit of one set per calendar year.

perhaps we should migrate this thread to the Multihull forum??

[Doug Lord]

GC32 in multihull forum: http://forums.sailin...howtopic=140701

and on boatdesign.net : http://www.boatdesig...-cat-45062.html

[~Stingray~]

cool photo on the Mythtery Page