163 replies to this topic

[Gatekeeper]

I was contacted by the proud owner of Van Diemen III to carve a hull of his impressive custom built 64'er.

This hull comes with more challenges than I can describe...multiple transition areas and long flowing curves. While I am sure that I don't yet have the skills to carve this hull, I am also sure that I can develop them.

I'm happy with it or it doesn't leave the bench...so here we go.

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[Cavelamb]

Dream not small dreams,
for they have not the power
to fire mens' souls...

[Gatekeeper]

A few more...from glueing up the lifts to carving the bulwarks

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[floating dutchman]

You could start by carving this:

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Could be eaysier.

You'll mak a good gob of it, I'm sure.

[Diarmuid]

Oh oh oh. Nice work there, Gatekeeper. You may have tapped into your target market....

[Gatekeeper]

Oh oh oh. Nice work there, Gatekeeper. You may have tapped into your target market....

My target market is anyone who loves their boat...it's really enjoyable to talk to people who get excited just talking them.

This client qualifies!!

[WHL]

I recognize that boat... nudge nudge wink wink say no more.... a Kiwi boat that crossed the Pacific to SoCal in 2010?
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[Gatekeeper]

WHL

You got it...

[sailglobal]

Looking good Gate,,,,,, Ish, she's actually been across the Pacific three times since 2005, next time hope you can join in the fun,,,,,,,,

[kimbottles]

That is a very good looking vessel, I can see why the owner wants a model to look at when not aboard!

[Ishmael]

Looking good Gate,,,,,, Ish, she's actually been across the Pacific three times since 2005, next time hope you can join in the fun,,,,,,,,

If you're talking to me, I'm all over it.

[Paps]

Oh Ish, he just wanted to invite you to the conversation, dont be all hard to get.

[Paps]

Gate, enjoy the journey, I very much look forward to seeing the results.

[boomer]

Looks like a challenge to carve....that should keep you busy for a while.

[Gatekeeper]

Looks like a challenge to carve....that should keep you busy for a while.

I'm learning to break the hull down into increments, the hull, bulwarks, rudder, keel are all handled separately then married together and faired...otherwise I'd likely go insane cutting this hull.

Looking good Gate,,,,,, Ish, she's actually been across the Pacific three times since 2005, next time hope you can join in the fun,,,,,,,,

Ohhhh...now you went and did it!!

[boomer]

Looks like you got your work cut out for you Gate....a challenge like that is always rewarding.

[sailglobal]

Sorry WHL, I blew it. It would be great to have Ish along too, add some class to the operation. Might need to ask Paps to get involved as the 'adjudicator', tho' it's likely considered a bit risky to have a Crow Eater transplant on a boat. At the least he could show us how to cook sheep.

[Paps]

Global, I'll even bring the sheep!! I'm a transplant from old Sydney town, born in Darlinghurst.

[sailglobal]

Sheep'll be safe, no K1W1s on board. I believe the designer was born in Darlinghurst, should be OK then.

[Bob Perry]

Darlinghurst? I have relatives in Darlinghurst. I might be the designer's cousin.
That's where my great Grandma lived. I remember her vividly . She was fat and old and then she was dead. I never did have a conversation with her. My loss. I'd love to have that conversation today. Maybe I'll see her soon.
Man, now you have got me really nostalgic.

[floating dutchman]

Sheep'll be safe, no K1W1s on board. I believe the designer was born in Darlinghurst, should be OK then.

Hey hey, steady on.

[WHL]

Sorry WHL, I blew it. It would be great to have Ish along too, add some class to the operation. Might need to ask Paps to get involved as the 'adjudicator', tho' it's likely considered a bit risky to have a Crow Eater transplant on a boat. At the least he could show us how to cook sheep.

LOL. No Problem. Too bad I was already doing another delivery on your last trip.

[Fleetwood]

Hobart registered boat, owned by an Ozzie who lived in the US. We sailed against her at Hammo in '08, then she was moored in the Pittwater for quite a while.

[Ishmael]

Sorry WHL, I blew it. It would be great to have Ish along too, add some class to the operation. Might need to ask Paps to get involved as the 'adjudicator', tho' it's likely considered a bit risky to have a Crow Eater transplant on a boat. At the least he could show us how to cook sheep.

I suspected that wasn't aimed at me, dammit. Global, if you have room I'd love to join the fun.

[sailglobal]

Ish, as it get closer I'll keep you posted. Canadian Bacon, mmmmmmmmmmmm

Fleet, great in '08, what yacht were you?

[Fleetwood]

INEZ, a Mason 44, the only one in Oz. We were berthed midway along the marina arm you were on. Wasn't Piers sailing with you?
Hoping to go again either next year or '14.

[sailglobal]

Fleet, I remember walking past you many times, and I'm sure there were other times I don't remember. Yes Piers was on board, he was our 'minister in charge of diplomacy'. Also had the pleasure of 'Chas from Tas' - he was in charge of late night social behavior, and Zappa was leading the pole dancers. I'm certain we had a great time, will be back when next in the land of OZ. Might be a good venue for a CA group showup. Who knows what might happen,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Gatekeeper]

OK...back on track!!

Seal coated with epoxy...first coat of (2 part) primer...bending the bulwark cap.

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[sailglobal]

Beautiful, so cool to see it happening so quickly,,,,,,,,

[Gatekeeper]

Beautiful, so cool to see it happening so quickly,,,,,,,,

Only because I'm retired and obccessive-compulsive....and in love with the craft.

[Gatekeeper]

A few update pics that were sent to the client for approval...still lots to do.

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[Cavelamb]

Amazing!

Gate, you do very nice work,

[Soñadora]

Gorgeous

[floating dutchman]

That's very very nice gate.

[Jose Carumba]

I think it needs a little more Lawry's Gate!

Actually a very nice model. They keep getting better.

[Gatekeeper]

Just a coat of clear to go...

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[Gatekeeper]

I think it needs a little more Lawry's Gate!

I just got that!!

[Jose Carumba]

Now if I could only find the lines for the Cal 20... I've looked and asked around for some time now but no joy. When I find them you'll get a call.

[Gatekeeper]

Now if I could only find the lines for the Cal 20... I've looked and asked around for some time now but no joy. When I find them you'll get a call.

I really like that boat. Nice big cockpit and one design fleet. Looks like lots of fun to sail.

Talk to Rasps...his lines are amazing to work with.

I'll give you the CA discount...add 10% on, take 10% off.



(kidding)

[Bob Perry]

Jose:
I'd would bet you that Rasper can reproduce your lines for you from basuic dims drawings and photos. It's a very simple and natural shape. I could do it. Hell, you sure should be able to do it. Haul your boat, go take some sections off it and have at it. That's the way we did it in the old days. I once took the lines of a launch for Bill Garden.

Men with rulers!
And plumb bobs.

[Jose Carumba]

Yeah, that is my next plan of attack. I may be able to have it scanned or use our photogrammetry program to do it.

Then I will have Janicki machine a full size mold and start producing them again.

[Bob Perry]

Jose:
I'm seeing another Chopper skit already:
"This is Jose and he doesn't have any lines for his Cal 20.
HTFU Jose!"

[Great Red Shark]

Just start with a big chunk of wood and remove everythign that doesn't look like a Cal 20 ?

Nice work gate.

[Gatekeeper]

We at Gatekeeper Carving have the latest and most innovative tooling to aid in carving you the perfect hull model.

Delta Yachts ain't got nothing on us!!

This is the world famous Viceroy-3M Universal Multi-plane Variable Tension Clamping Device (available to professionals only)...nothing is too good for our customers.

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[Bob Perry]

I sure hope you spit on it first.

[Jose Carumba]

We'd like to buy that technology from you gate.

[Ishmael]

We'd like to buy that technology from you gate.

Good luck with that, you can't even get him to show up for work on time.

[Bob Perry]

You first have to talk to his agent.

[Gatekeeper]

Here is another configuration...hence the name, Viceroy-3M Universal Multi-plane Variable Tension Clamping Device

Jose, just how many pesos we talkin bout here?? Once you decide, call my agent Bob.

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[Jose Carumba]

Lets see,

Rubber bands, yellow tape, pushpins, and a clamp. Say $20?
Bob's comissiom at say, 10% = $2. (Bob to confirm).
Intellectual property attorney fees. $20,000.

$20,022.00 U.S.

[Gatekeeper]

Lets see,

Rubber bands, yellow tape, pushpins, and a clamp. Say $20?
Bob's comissiom at say, 10% = $2. (Bob to confirm).
Intellectual property attorney fees. $20,000.

$20,022.00 U.S.

Sold...Jeez that was easy. I take PayPal.

(I fired Bob...he was also my legal dept)

[Bob Perry]

Hey!

[Jose Carumba]

Harsh Gate! Now I just need to scale it up to full size. Does anyone know where to get 150 ft rubber bands?

[Gatekeeper]

Harsh Gate! Now I just need to scale it up to full size. Does anyone know where to get 150 ft rubber bands?

Not until I get paid...

Bob, you are un-fired, show him we mean business. Let the air out of his tires.

[Bob Perry]

I'm not driving to Tacoma in this weather. I have water accross the street at the beach. I may have to take my Walker Bay to my Tai Chi class tonight.

I have a neighbor for doors down. He's a little old lady, about my age. with any amount of water on the road he puts out a regulation size road sign reading "Caution water over road". For fuck's sake we can see that. I am planning to go down one night and post a note on his sign, "Caution sign in roadway".

[Jose Carumba]

Yeah, this is the kind of weather that sends the salmon up drainage ditches to spawn.

[Ishmael]

I'm not driving to Tacoma in this weather. I have water accross the street at the beach. I may have to take my Walker Bay to my Tai Chi class tonight.

I have a neighbor for doors down. He's a little old lady, about my age. with any amount of water on the road he puts out a regulation size road sign reading "Caution water over road". For fuck's sake we can see that. I am planning to go down one night and post a note on his sign, "Caution sign in roadway".

[Cavelamb]

Gatekeeper,
May I ask for some secret advice?
How thick are you making the lifts, and what kind of wood are you using?
That looks like so much fun I want to try it too.

I sliced up my hull.
This one is 26 inches long (1"=1') and spaced for 1/2" thick wood.
Do you think that will work ok?

Thanks,
Richard

PS: slicing up the (allegedly fair) hull that way sure showed were the lumps were!

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[Gatekeeper]

Gatekeeper,
May I ask for some secret advice?
How thick are you making the lifts, and what kind of wood are you using?
That looks like so much fun I want to try it too.

I sliced up my hull.
This one is 26 inches long (1"=1') and spaced for 1/2" thick wood.
Do you think that will work ok?

Thanks,
Richard

PS: slicing up the (allegedly fair) hull that way sure showed were the lumps were!

In a best case I use red cedar fence boards...they start out at 5/8" and I plane them down to 1/2"

I've never tried carving a hull with the lifts vertical. In theory it's the same but getting that outboard lift to behave might be a challenge. Thin material is a bitch to work with.

[Cavelamb]

Gatekeeper,
May I ask for some secret advice?
How thick are you making the lifts, and what kind of wood are you using?
That looks like so much fun I want to try it too.

I sliced up my hull.
This one is 26 inches long (1"=1') and spaced for 1/2" thick wood.
Do you think that will work ok?

Thanks,
Richard

PS: slicing up the (allegedly fair) hull that way sure showed were the lumps were!

In a best case I use red cedar fence boards...they start out at 5/8" and I plane them down to 1/2"

I've never tried carving a hull with the lifts vertical. In theory it's the same but getting that outboard lift to behave might be a challenge. Thin material is a bitch to work with.

I was wondering about that (orientation).
It's easy enough to fix the lifts at this point - only takes a minute or two now that I've learned how.

Do you use alignment dowels? Or just stack 'em up, glue, and go for it?

Lastly (for the moment) I'm worried that a thin fin keel might warp over time?

[Gatekeeper]

Do you use alignment dowels? Or just stack 'em up, glue, and go for it?

Lastly (for the moment) I'm worried that a thin fin keel might warp over time?

I don't use dowels, but I can see how, with some designs, I may have to in the future...I use maple for the keels and rudders. No warping so far.

[Cavelamb]

Ok, it took me an hour and a half do redraw...
But I had to do some fairing in the process.
But I think it's better now.

Times like this I really miss my old Epson dot matrix printer.

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[Gatekeeper]

Now you just gotta make it look like this...

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[Jose Carumba]

Dan, do you use the body plan sections to make templates to assure the correct shape?

[Gatekeeper]

I take the side view and trace it onto the backside (flat) of the hull model...that combined with the lifts defines the shape.

I have taken templates at several stations to check shape, but I find if I cut my lifts accurately the shape works out well.

[Cavelamb]

Gate, I'd love to make it look like that (English Channel Cutter?)
But it looks like this for now...

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[Cavelamb]

Actually, it looks like a kinda funky log at the moment...

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[Bob Perry]

Cave:
It looks a bit funky up in the bow.
The waterlines coming into that straight stem will have to be straight also or you will get a weird shape there.
You nmay want to fair the bow to a false stem ahead of the real stem then cut it back to match the real stem.
This is the way it is done when designing by hand, usually. Let the waterlines extend until they break the centerline.

It's Clamp Man"!

[Cavelamb]

Cave:
It looks a bit funky up in the bow.
The waterlines coming into that straight stem will have to be straight also or you will get a weird shape there.
You nmay want to fair the bow to a false stem ahead of the real stem then cut it back to match the real stem.
This is the way it is done when designing by hand, usually. Let the waterlines extend until they break the centerline.

It's Clamp Man"!

The Man has The Eye.


I noticed that when I was cutting the lifts - it looked a bit hollow in a couple of places.
I had a bitch of a time getting it even that close.
DC is NOT a modeling program - just a drafting system with delusions of grandeur.
Way back in my Navy days, when I thought I might grow up to be a Naval Architect
I drew on paper - BIG paper. These days it's all on the little screen.

But this exercise is for fun.
I think, once I get to carving on it, I can make it work.

EDIT:
Also, for what it's worth, I didn't have ANY lines to start with on the 26.
So there's not a lot of expectation here for accuracy.
I'd just like to have a nice half-hull over the fireplace.
And unless Bob comes to Texas, who's gonna know???

[Bob Perry]

"grow up to be a naval architect"?

It took my dear old parents years to come to grips with the fact that designing boats was actually a job.
"You can't just muck around with boats all your life son."

One day I went to visit them and there on their coffee table was one of my SAILING books.

[Cavelamb]

There is something very satisfying about taking a block plane to a lump of wood and finding a work of art inside.

My only possible wish beyond that would be for clear straight grain Honduras mahogany to work with.
Cedar is a very soft wood that has a harder grain between layers of very soft pulp.
The pulp sands away easily leaving the grain proud.
So filling the surface was a necessity.

Also, (Bob cursed it!) the whole forefoot, being very thin down there, broke away early on.
So that had to be "restored". (Where would we be without our powers and potions?)
It's a real shame too, because cedar looks fabulous finished bright!
But this is only my first attempt. Hopefully I'll get better at it with practice. (?)

The keel is epoxied in place (curing now) and a light epoxy coating was added to the hull as well.
(that's West Penetrating Epoxy,since I had some handy)
Fair out the keel, and a light sanding, and it's ready to go to the paint shop.
(Then we'll see...)

[Gatekeeper]

Once I get the shape roughed in a coat the whole model with clear epoxy...that hardens it and stops the grain from sanding away, for the most part.

[Cavelamb]

Some progress...
All coated, and ready to start primer.

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[Gatekeeper]

Cave...a word of advice...drill that knot out.

I use a Forestner bit and take it about 1/8" deep. Fill with thickened epoxy and you'll be fine. The wood around a knot, and the knot itself are very hard and you'll never make the area fair.

Ask me how I obtained this wisdom.

[Cavelamb]

Cave...a word of advice...drill that knot out.

I use a Forestner bit and take it about 1/8" deep. Fill with thickened epoxy and you'll be fine. The wood around a knot, and the knot itself are very hard and you'll never make the area fair.

Ask me how I obtained this wisdom.

Ok, I will do that.
How did you obtain such wisdom?
(ducking and running with drill)

I think I'm going to try to find some ladder fir.
Cedar is easy to carve, but that grain is a pain.
This one will have to be all blue.

[Ishmael]

I just picked up some clear 1/2" by 3" by 3' poplar at Homie Despot. I don't have a thickness planer so hand planing down from 3/4" is a pain. It's nice to find the right thickness for my winter project. They have 1/2" by 6" as well.

[sam_crocker]

I like Basswood for carving. Not as hard as some of the other woods (softer than cedar - yes). But man it carves nicely. You can get it precut and thicknessed at hobby shops that cater to model builders (like airplane/model railroad shops). Mahogany is another nice one.

[Gatekeeper]

I just picked up some clear 1/2" by 3" by 3' poplar at Homie Despot. I don't have a thickness planer so hand planing down from 3/4" is a pain. It's nice to find the right thickness for my winter project. They have 1/2" by 6" as well.

Oh God, not poplar!! It's really hard when it's dry...REALLY HARD!!

My first hull, Gatekeeper, is made of poplar. Never again. I had to chisel off the excess then skim coat the whole hull.

Basswood is really nice...I have two 50" lengths here, but they are firmly rooted and have many branches.

[Ishmael]

Well, I have it and it will just have to cooperate. I have many very sharp things.

Edit to show sharp things. I'm a cutting edge freak.


 tools.jpg   331.83K   39 downloads

[Cavelamb]

I just picked up some clear 1/2" by 3" by 3' poplar at Homie Despot. I don't have a thickness planer so hand planing down from 3/4" is a pain. It's nice to find the right thickness for my winter project. They have 1/2" by 6" as well.

Oh God, not poplar!! It's really hard when it's dry...REALLY HARD!!

My first hull, Gatekeeper, is made of poplar. Never again. I had to chisel off the excess then skim coat the whole hull.

Basswood is really nice...I have two 50" lengths here, but they are firmly rooted and have many branches.

Considering costs, cedar most likely.

break

Ish,
In my heart I covet that lower shelf!

[Dale dug a hole]

Well, I have it and it will just have to cooperate. I have many very sharp things.

Edit to show sharp things. I'm a cutting edge freak.


 tools.jpg   331.83K   39 downloads

Sorry but have to say. Love the tools

But Fucking Hell you have them sitting in chipboard hell.

Also, great job Cave, great to see ya just jumped in, i just keep thinking about it.

[Ishmael]

Well, I have it and it will just have to cooperate. I have many very sharp things.

Edit to show sharp things. I'm a cutting edge freak.


 tools.jpg   331.83K   39 downloads

Sorry but have to say. Love the tools

But Fucking Hell you have them sitting in chipboard hell.

Also, great job Cave, great to see ya just jumped in, i just keep thinking about it.

I made a tool box that holds all my hand tools in four levels. It's all leather and mahogany inside, oak outside. My wife uses it for blanket and material storage since it's a pain to access the planes on the bottom level, lifting out two flats of heavy tools each time. So I keep all my tools in three chipboard hell cupboards, but the planes at least live on their old leather.

[Cavelamb]

I dunno if this is hijacking the original thread, or continuing it.
But this seems the proper place...

Progressing...

I'm holding here until I can score some resin.
This pretty much brings me up to date.
The first layer of epoxy (3 coats?), sanded a bit, then some more.
.
Next layer - 2 or three coats - ought to it?

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[Cavelamb]

Well, I have it and it will just have to cooperate. I have many very sharp things.

Edit to show sharp things. I'm a cutting edge freak.


 tools.jpg   331.83K   39 downloads

Sorry but have to say. Love the tools

But Fucking Hell you have them sitting in chipboard hell.

Also, great job Cave, great to see ya just jumped in, i just keep thinking about it.

It's fun!

What kind of boat do you have?
I'm working on lifts for the Catalina 27.

[Gatekeeper]

My progression is this...

- clear epoxy no filler
- wet sand
- spray with one part primer...you'll think it's fair until you do this
- sand off high spots, fill low spots with thickened epoxy
- coat any spots sanded down to raw wood with thin epoxy
- make fair and repaint with grey primer
- clear epoxy to lock in primer
- epoxy with fairing filler added brush on
- wet sand

- two part primer
- wet sand
- Perfection
- wet sand
- Perfection
- wet sand
- Perfection
- wet sand to remove dust
- sand with 320 grit


- clear coat
- paste wax x 5-8 coats

Simple.

[Bob Perry]

And all the time here I was thinking all you knew about was ice hockey.

[Gatekeeper]

Hey!!

No more tutorials for you.

[Cavelamb]

- Perfection
- wet sand


- Perfection
- wet sand


- Perfection
- wet sand to remove dust

- clear coat

- buff - Finesse It

- paste wax x 5-8 coats

Simple.

[Ishmael]

I was figuring on a couple of coats of Tremclad. Maybe three, if there's a lot of dust in the first couple.

[Dale dug a hole]

It's fun!

What kind of boat do you have?
I'm working on lifts for the Catalina 27.

Current boat.


As this pic is taken in Victoria I guess I've cruised the East Coast of Australia in it.

Being only 4.55m I'm unsure what scale to go with... Honestly I wouldn't mind doing a model of it.

[Bob Perry]

Hole:
It would be a PITA to try to relpicate the lapstrake look of your hull in a model.

Great looking boat.

[Dale dug a hole]

For a Tinnie, it aint bad, and a nice size to tow. It also can handle some decent sea's, but it is wet without canopy and clears on.

Lapstrake, fucking easy!
I'll just lock the button on the circular saw hold it down with a cable tie and just go for it.

Easy shit, used the saw to cut my front door in half the other day.



Oh well the road in front of my place is now the main road.

Edit: pic is from dslr, fixed flash, light from out sid etc. Not hard. A bit of post production would make it cool

[Gatekeeper]

Ok...I might not endorse Dales approach to lapstrake

Two ways I can think of. Carve the hull shape then...

- lay on "planks of very thin veneer cut to the proper shape. I think epoxy might be the way to go instead of glue
- take a fine triangular file and carve in the strake lines. Then add the chine.

[Cavelamb]

I got some primer on it today...

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[Innocent Bystander]

Looking pretty good

[Bob Perry]

Cave:
That looks very nice.

[Cavelamb]

Thanks guys.

Now comes the hard part.
Pain... I mean PainT. Sorry.

Question for Gatekeeper?
Are you laying paint flush?
Mask off and lay it in sections so that the end surface is flush?

[Gatekeeper]

I break the hull into sections as Perfection tends to run...OWL, BLW, Stern & deck...takes me about a week to get 3 coats on all.

[Dale dug a hole]

Cant be easy painting a OWL with wings flapping and they have sharp beaks

[Gatekeeper]

OOps...BWL

(Jeez, thanks for pointing that out)