166 replies to this topic

[couchsurfer]

74 applicants, total.

...blah,,blah........................ We are no longer looking.

.......does this mean it's too late to apply????


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[portsmouthmarine]

That's right. You can just sit home on the couch and collect that government check.

[kent_island_sailor]

When 6 years experience = 24K, we are hosed

[JumpingJax]

One long thread makes a sad set of points:

• "Afflordable" boat are being built in China, etc., for cheap labor rates;
• Gold platers and graphite porn, affordable only for "one percenters," are being built with $30/hr and up old school craftsmen and PhD Engineers;
• A glut of used boats keep prices down for most;
• A very divided world-wide economy with the "haves" gaining and "have nots" losing ground.

For any US firm trying to compete with Chinese or Phillipine labor, in any manufacturing industry, has to rely on automation, robotics, and other advanced technology to compete. For all the changes over the last decade or two, boatbuilding is still labor intensive piecework. It's damned hard to be competitive.

And, like most industries, boat building is seeing the loss of a lot of jobs in the lagging economy, and lots of people are out of work.

Those who can thumb their noses at $12/HR are fortunate and might benefit from some tolerance for the OP. Until Luhrs ramps up hiring - and hopefully they will - the OP's numbers aren't out of line with the market. Once Luhrs is running, they set the market and OP will have to compete or lose workers. So be it. In the meantime, OP seems to be getting it done.

[One eye Jack]

74 applicants, total.

Both positions were filled Tuesday. I hired a former Sea Ray employee with 6 years laminating experience (prior to being laid off) and a guy with 12 years experience building one offs in Maine.

Obviously, all the negative "industry insider" jabs were pretty much full of hot air and the people posting them had no clue.

These positions were filled Tuesday. Both of them. We are no longer looking.

PS: These two laminators are for tabbing and some hand laminations. The infused hulls and beams are already done. Thanks for all the concern though... lol

so will you get them their green cards too?

[R Booth]

74 applicants, total.

Both positions were filled Tuesday. I hired a former Sea Ray employee with 6 years laminating experience (prior to being laid off) and a guy with 12 years experience building one offs in Maine.

Obviously, all the negative "industry insider" jabs were pretty much full of hot air and the people posting them had no clue.

These positions were filled Tuesday. Both of them. We are no longer looking.

You've got this online presence thing nailed.

Yup, he sounds like an absolute fuking joy to work for. If my cheating cunt of an ex girl friend ever gets tired of hanging from poles naked and needs work, I'll give her his number...

[bruno]

lol.., just who is the joke on? maybe we have met the enemy and he is us.

[R Booth]

lol.., just who is the joke on? maybe we have met the enemy and he is us.

Or just maybe, there actually is a good-god-damn reason why you can't buy entry level Ferraris for $40k?....

[couchsurfer]

That's right. You can just sit home on the couch and collect that government check.

.........you're a laugh

....I certainly learnt long ago to smell-out your sort

[bruno]

lol.., just who is the joke on? maybe we have met the enemy and he is us.

Or just maybe, there actually is a good-god-damn reason why you can't buy entry level Ferraris for $40k?....

Booth, I quote Pogo for purpose, not because he advocated leveling but because Walt Kelly advocated public and private virtues. One of those being respect for one's fellow creatures on this earth. Viz, I do not ask others in the US to grind FG for $96/day regardless of their desperation. Hope that is clear enough for you.

[R Booth]

lol.., just who is the joke on? maybe we have met the enemy and he is us.

Or just maybe, there actually is a good-god-damn reason why you can't buy entry level Ferraris for $40k?....

Booth, I quote Pogo for purpose, not because he advocated leveling but because Walt Kelly advocated public and private virtues. One of those being respect for one's fellow creatures on this earth. Viz, I do not ask others in the US to grind FG for $96/day regardless of their desperation. Hope that is clear enough for you.

And I ask people all the time to work for me at $1.25 a day. Doesn't mean any one has ever said Yes-----but there's always tomorrow....

[couchsurfer]

....I guess the other side of the coin is the challenges faced as an employer.

.....the few times I've hired a helper,,,I've tried to treat them well,,good pay,,flexibility,incentives,,,respect as I can manage ,,,,,,,,,,,intending a good will of sorts.,expecting to see some initiative,,,a bit of push,,,perhaps trustworthiness

.................unfortunately it seemed in most occasions I was asking too much

[R Booth]

....I guess the other side of the coin is the challenges faced as an employer.

.....the few times I've hired a helper,,,I've tried to treat them well,,good pay,,flexibility,incentives,,,respect as I can manage ,,,,,,,,,,,intending a good will of sorts.,expecting to see some initiative,,,a bit of push,,,perhaps trustworthiness

.................unfortunately it seemed in most occasions I was asking too much

I actually do the same. Though on the other hand, I once had to fire my own little brother. Twice....

[kent_island_sailor]

I have been on both sides of this one too. I *could not* keep decent marine techs back in the day for $16/hr. If they were good, they got hired away by someone who paid more, they went out on their own, or finally figured out other industries paid a lot more. One guy asked me why he should work for me when he could make $70K at the Mercedes dealer as a mechanic. I told him he would be nuts to pass up the Mercedes job. We tended to get guys that just loved boats, which was good, but reliability wasn't exactly the strong point of that bunch

One reason I found other work to do was I decided the industry had stabilized at a level where you just could not hire the right people and still make a profit as a small shop. Even 16-18 years ago $12/hr was mighty thin for any kind of skilled labor. In 2012 - OUCH.

[walterbshaffer]

yep, and it hurts when the worker you most trusted to lock up when he finished, and paid him more than all the others, (much more than $12 an hour) is the guy that opens the valves on the 44 gallon resin drums as he walks out on a friday afternoon never to come back, And then you find out he was seen having a quiet lunch with your agent the week before. An agent who was trying to send you broke so that he could buy out the business, and put the worker in as a manager.. Great thing to find out on a monday morning. Ever tried cleaning up a rented factory floor covered in tacky fibreglass resin, when everything, including molds, tools and parts are swimming in it ? Agents. Biggest mistake a manufacturer can make next to hiring workers that you thought you could trust. Well they didnt succeed. I sacked the agent, but he then got himself into a position in the local yachting club where he could do my business damage. Fortunately Karma took care of him.

What is an agent?

[Trendsetter]

Walter thank you!! I kept reading and re-reading and could not for the life of me figure out what an agent was

[Balder]

This guy is trying to hire people, I applaud him for it.

You could make more working at McDonald's that what he wants to play a skilled laminate guy

What planet is THAT McDonalds on?

[Balder]

Reality = 22% unemployment in the US for the last 4 years has depressed wages quite a bit.

$12 an hour times 2 equals median household income.

Get used to it

Well, Vegas has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country at 12%. So apparently your reality differs from reality.

Although you are peg on the second point there

[R Booth]

This guy is trying to hire people, I applaud him for it.

You could make more working at McDonald's that what he wants to play a skilled laminate guy

What planet is THAT McDonalds on?

Planet Oztralia.....

[hobot]

yep, and it hurts when the worker you most trusted to lock up when he finished, and paid him more than all the others, (much more than $12 an hour) is the guy that opens the valves on the 44 gallon resin drums as he walks out on a friday afternoon never to come back, And then you find out he was seen having a quiet lunch with your agent the week before. An agent who was trying to send you broke so that he could buy out the business, and put the worker in as a manager.. Great thing to find out on a monday morning. Ever tried cleaning up a rented factory floor covered in tacky fibreglass resin, when everything, including molds, tools and parts are swimming in it ? Agents. Biggest mistake a manufacturer can make next to hiring workers that you thought you could trust. Well they didnt succeed. I sacked the agent, but he then got himself into a position in the local yachting club where he could do my business damage. Fortunately Karma took care of him.

What is an agent?

A Lawyer of sorts maybe?

[Gouvernail]

Opening post said:

"I am building a very expensive toy and plan to pay survival wages to the some of the professionals who create it."


The work of union organizers is never done.

[Tom Ray]

http://www.portsmout...catamarans.com/

website could do with a little work, maybe he can get a $12/hr web guy as well?

What? You don't think "Untitled Document" is a catchy title?

[Gouvernail]

http://www.portsmout...catamarans.com/

website could do with a little work, maybe he can get a $12/hr web guy as well?

What? You don't think "Untitled Document" is a catchy title?

The website screams "fly by night company that will be long gone when you come in for warranty work."

I don't know anything about the company except it has that "WE are just a temporary business" website.

And no one at the company cares enough to change that on line image.


it makes me wonder, "Why does a person with sufficient means to purchase a very expensive toy deal with a company whose reputation is not clearly established??"

I also wonder that same thing every time some new guy sets up a shop to repair boats on my local lake. Certainly there are some who have had enough of dealing with me and will try anything anywhere to go someplce else...

but.. What usually happens is a new guy shows up and rich guys (I have never met and with whom I have never dealt) with nice boats line up and have the new guy try to fix their toys. The new guy takes huge deposits, gets behind on his rent, fails to finish some or all of the jobs he started, and disappears.
All the boat owner, who has sufficient sense and intelligence to accumulate the funds necessary to purchase an expensive boat, had to do was ask the marina manager, "Who has a reputation for doing a good job around here?"


It makes me think the best website title might be>>

Untitled document

taking money from rich guys who are too fukking smart to shop since 2012

[boomer]

So what are gas prices in Florida these days? How much is prime rib a pound? What are the average house prices? What does a college education cost in Florida?

[6924]

Baldor,

Unemployment measured according to the way citizens define unemployment is 22%

shadow stats.com is a good source for understanding this questions.

[One eye Jack]

This guy is trying to hire people, I applaud him for it.

You could make more working at McDonald's that what he wants to play a skilled laminate guy

What planet is THAT McDonalds on?

Planet Oztralia.....

in North Dakota McDonald's is paying more tHan 15 an hour, and San Francisco is paying more than 12. That just a couple that I know of.

[One eye Jack]

http://www.portsmout...catamarans.com/

website could do with a little work, maybe he can get a $12/hr web guy as well?

maybe he hired one for 12 bucks, and immigration showed up.you pay for what you get.

[Shibby]

....I guess the other side of the coin is the challenges faced as an employer.

.....the few times I've hired a helper,,,I've tried to treat them well,,good pay,,flexibility,incentives,,,respect as I can manage ,,,,,,,,,,,intending a good will of sorts.,expecting to see some initiative,,,a bit of push,,,perhaps trustworthiness

.................unfortunately it seemed in most occasions I was asking too much

+1

[mad]

http://www.portsmout...catamarans.com/

website could do with a little work, maybe he can get a $12/hr web guy as well?

maybe he hired one for 12 bucks, and immigration showed up.you pay for what you get.

Be nice if the owner and or the NA dropped by this thread.

[Shibby]

That's right. You can just sit home on the couch and collect that government check.

all from craigslist no doubt...

[hobot]

http://www.portsmout...catamarans.com/

website could do with a little work, maybe he can get a $12/hr web guy as well?

maybe he hired one for 12 bucks, and immigration showed up.you pay for what you get.

Once Immigration showed up at Coast Catamaran, 3 vans and a car... damm near shut the place down by attacking the propert from several directions flushing the place out through the main gate.....first time I'd ever hard the phrase " La Migra La Migra".
Hadn't really thought of what the migrant worker was laying on the line up till that point.

[mad]

My guess,
Company folds very shortly after handing over the boat to the new proud owner.
That basic 'tabbing' otherwise called bulkhead bonding/secoundary bonding (that really important shit) fails.
And the Boss runs off with the change from the job.
Warrenty??? After sales?

[boomer]

One word....karma

[R Booth]

One word....karma

One word. Yorktown.....

[Steam Flyer]

....I guess the other side of the coin is the challenges faced as an employer.

.....the few times I've hired a helper,,,I've tried to treat them well,,good pay,,flexibility,incentives,,,respect as I can manage ,,,,,,,,,,,intending a good will of sorts.,expecting to see some initiative,,,a bit of push,,,perhaps trustworthiness

.................unfortunately it seemed in most occasions I was asking too much

+1

It is, in fact, hard to get good help.

We had somewhat of a revolving door for mechanic's helpers, and deferred hiring mechanics & technicians unless we knew them personally. It's a small world. A small company, too. The ones that could stick with us long enough to see a round or two of profit-sharing made the connection between productive work & money.

Hiring veterans raises the percentage somewhat.

FB- Doug

[Foghorn77]

You guys that keep talking about the company going out of business should read the first post (novel fucking idea), it's a one off.

[R Booth]

You guys that keep talking about the company going out of business should read the first post (novel fucking idea), it's a one off.

And who's number does the owner call when it needs warranty work, or start to de-construct itself? Midas? WalMart? Lego?......

[hobot]

You guys that keep talking about the company going out of business should read the first post (novel fucking idea), it's a one off.

No need to, the threads moved on.

[R Booth]

You guys that keep talking about the company going out of business should read the first post (novel fucking idea), it's a one off.

No need to, the threads moved on.

Is 'One Off' anything like 'This is the one and only boat we're ever gonna build'?....

[JMD]

You guys that keep talking about the company going out of business should read the first post (novel fucking idea), it's a one off.

And who's number does the owner call when it needs warranty work, or start to de-construct itself? Midas? WalMart? Lego?......

AAMCO. Saw a commercial that said they fix everything.

[boomer]

Ever had anything fixed by AAMCO....

[R Booth]

You guys that keep talking about the company going out of business should read the first post (novel fucking idea), it's a one off.

And who's number does the owner call when it needs warranty work, or start to de-construct itself? Midas? WalMart? Lego?......

AAMCO. Saw a commercial that said they fix everything.

Well there you have it, folks. Call Aamco (double-a-m-c-o), for all your boat warranty & repair needs.....

[Somebody Else]

how many today are willing (and happy) to buy a smaller but better built home?

Me.

willing to make do with fewer quality goods rather than an overabundance of cheap crap from walmart [AND CHINA]?

Me!

happy to park a bit further and walk if it means more greenery?

Me!!

when that changes then things will be different until then just more of the same.

I'm only one data point, but I like to think there are others who feel the same way.

[kent_island_sailor]

Thread creep here - but me too!
What I hate is the vanishing middle quality stuff. Go buy a power tool. Your choices are:
1 - cheap shit from China
2 - cheap shit from China selling for mid-range prices
3 - VERY expensive good stuff.

[jerseyguy]

how many today are willing (and happy) to buy a smaller but better built home?

Me.

willing to make do with fewer quality goods rather than an overabundance of cheap crap from walmart [AND CHINA]?

Me!

happy to park a bit further and walk if it means more greenery?

Me!!

when that changes then things will be different until then just more of the same.

I'm only one data point, but I like to think there are others who feel the same way.

+1
Lived in the same 1600 sq ft home for 20 years. It was built in the '70s by the best builder in the area. Plaster walls, hardwood floors and a steel I beam running down its backbone. Never been to a WalMart in my life. Cell phone is 4 years old, almost a relic. Cars are 8 years old. Don't have a 60" TV, just a little old 26" that is being replaced with a 32" only because the screen is dying.

Before we moved to this house we lived in a 1920s built house in a more urban neighborhood. Lived 1/2 block from the nearest bus stop. Lived with one car for probably 13 years as walked the half block and took the bus to get to work. Seriously considering dumping the 2nd car when its useful life is over. I doubt we put 10,000 miles a year on both cars combined.

[bruno]

I have wondered for years about misreporting of inflation, as I have seen my purchasing power eroded as trade wages stagnated in the US. I think the missing component is quality, prices for what appear to be similar goods have remained stable or dropped in constant dollars but at the cost of reducing quality often, not always. I daily use American and Japanese tools I purchased in the 80s, though my first ultra cheap Craftsman router died decades ago. Some of this is good, reducing product life can increase innovation, some bad, plastic tends to wear out sooner. I am always glad to hear about mindfulness, sometimes it seems like an isolated data point. Plant a tree, pick up garbage in front of you, think prior to purchase or consumption, reduce chemical use, simple ideas. Saying to yourself that the hard part (NC molds, dry stack, infusion) is done and now all that is left is some tabbing and a bit o rigging, get some grunts in for the labor, ok, that is 1 way.
+1 on veteran employment, my most reliable employee over the past 10 years is a 65 year old Vietnam veteran. Whilst I never agreed with the policy I can still respect the service and sacrifice, and appreciate the discipline. Trying to encourage him to surf more.

[baccara]

Thread creep here - but me too!
What I hate is the vanishing middle quality stuff. Go buy a power tool. Your choices are:
1 - cheap shit from China
2 - cheap shit from China selling for mid-range prices
3 - VERY expensive good stuff.

I totally second this... i live in Northern Europe, same thing here.

[DA-WOODY]

Where Oh Where is Swan69 to make us all feel so inadequate and socially feeble

guess he wasn't joking about the radon gas

[soak_ed]

how many today are willing (and happy) to buy a smaller but better built home?

Me.

willing to make do with fewer quality goods rather than an overabundance of cheap crap from walmart [AND CHINA]?

Me!

happy to park a bit further and walk if it means more greenery?

Me!!

when that changes then things will be different until then just more of the same.

I'm only one data point, but I like to think there are others who feel the same way.

I feel that way. I have a 1400 sq ft home in Poland, actually large by Polish standards. House is built with concrete foundation, Poroton block walls with 4" styrofoam insulation and stucco exterior, tile and wood floors over concrete, ground and second floors, tile roof. Cost a little less than a similar size home would cost in the US because labor is pretty cheap here. Quality of construction about 10x better than the shit they build in the US nowadays. Besides the block walls and concrete floors, the smallest roof lumber is 2"x8", the main support lumber is 10"x10". Metal frame, double glazed windows. My house will last for generations with minimal maintenance.

[soak_ed]

Thread creep here - but me too!
What I hate is the vanishing middle quality stuff. Go buy a power tool. Your choices are:
1 - cheap shit from China
2 - cheap shit from China selling for mid-range prices
3 - VERY expensive good stuff.

I totally second this... i live in Northern Europe, same thing here.

Yeah, choices here are cheap China shit, cheap but a little better than Chinese no name German or Black and Decker shit, or Bosch, DeWalt, Makita expensive but good shit. Unfortunately, at Polish wages the expensive shit is really expensive.

[R Booth]

Thread creep here - but me too!
What I hate is the vanishing middle quality stuff. Go buy a power tool. Your choices are:
1 - cheap shit from China
2 - cheap shit from China selling for mid-range prices
3 - VERY expensive good stuff.

I totally second this... i live in Northern Europe, same thing here.

Yeah, choices here are cheap China shit, cheap but a little better than Chinese no name German or Black and Decker shit, or Bosch, DeWalt, Makita expensive but good shit. Unfortunately, at Polish wages the expensive shit is really expensive.

What you guys need is a good ole fashioned Amerikan style union....

[Matt B]

Thread creep here - but me too!
What I hate is the vanishing middle quality stuff. Go buy a power tool. Your choices are:
1 - cheap shit from China
2 - cheap shit from China selling for mid-range prices
3 - VERY expensive good stuff.

I totally second this... i live in Northern Europe, same thing here.

Yeah, choices here are cheap China shit, cheap but a little better than Chinese no name German or Black and Decker shit, or Bosch, DeWalt, Makita expensive but good shit. Unfortunately, at Polish wages the expensive shit is really expensive.

What you guys need is a good ole fashioned Amerikan style union....

And a twinky

[hobot]

Yea....go the Twinky!!

[Gouvernail]

Ok, sitting here ready to get my ass served to me, but I didn't see a "classified" section.

I have 2 open, $24,000 per year positions in St Augustine / Jacksonville for fiberglass laminators who can hit the ground running.
'
We are working on a pretty tricked out Kurt Hughes designed catamaran.

So, does anyone know of anyone looking for work?

Mods: If this post is in the wrong place, please let me know where I should make it. Thanks.

Contact at jobs@portsmouthmarine-catamarans.com

How did the new guys work out for you??

Are they available again yet??

[soak_ed]

Thread creep here - but me too!
What I hate is the vanishing middle quality stuff. Go buy a power tool. Your choices are:
1 - cheap shit from China
2 - cheap shit from China selling for mid-range prices
3 - VERY expensive good stuff.

I totally second this... i live in Northern Europe, same thing here.

Yeah, choices here are cheap China shit, cheap but a little better than Chinese no name German or Black and Decker shit, or Bosch, DeWalt, Makita expensive but good shit. Unfortunately, at Polish wages the expensive shit is really expensive.

What you guys need is a good ole fashioned Amerikan style union....

How about this little union? They opened the cracks that brought down the Iron Curtain. Just sayin'.

[stranded]

Did the OP establish the company just to build the boat for himself ?



......... and Boothy/ Booothy / Boooothy


I can't get the picture out of my head of Boothy in a baby shit yellow Ferrari !



Flash as a rat with a gold tooth !

[R Booth]

Did the OP establish the company just to build the boat for himself ?



......... and Boothy/ Booothy / Boooothy


I can't get the picture out of my head of Boothy in a baby shit yellow Ferrari !



Flash as a rat with a gold tooth !

This......is not Baby Shit Yellow.....

[stranded]

I must be colour blind ........





still think dancing donkeys should be red

[Somebody Else]

Dino (by Ferrari) in Fly Yellow

One of Pininfarina's best.

[R Booth]

Dino (by Ferrari) in Fly Yellow

One of Pininfarina's best.

You have taste most excellent....

[stranded]

must admit, for looks , it does stand out in front of most of its stable mates








is it RHD ?

[R Booth]

must admit, for looks , it does stand out in front of most of its stable mates








is it RHD ?

I'm sure there's some out there somewhere. For around $200k US.....

[Bcam]

must admit, for looks , it does stand out in front of most of its stable mates








is it RHD ?

I'm sure there's some out there somewhere. For around $200k US.....

For a Fiat?

[miscut jib]

must admit, for looks , it does stand out in front of most of its stable mates








is it RHD ?

I'm sure there's some out there somewhere. For around $200k US.....

For a Fiat?

well, it's $200k without chairs and flares. $400k with them. Don't like the Yellow meself, much more interesting colors out there ... that aren't resale red over tan.

[FWThober]

Did the OP establish the company just to build the boat for himself ?



......... and Boothy/ Booothy / Boooothy


I can't get the picture out of my head of Boothy in a baby shit yellow Ferrari !



Flash as a rat with a gold tooth !

This......is not Baby Shit Yellow.....

When I first scrolled down to this photo my mind said, "Opel GT!"

Frank

[torrid]

That's right. You can just sit home on the couch and collect that government check.

Probably pays more.

[JohnMB]

wow

This thread spent a lot of time talking about poor wages for skilled manual labor, and no we are onto what color to paint your Ferrari.