166 replies to this topic

[portsmouthmarine]

Ok, sitting here ready to get my ass served to me, but I didn't see a "classified" section.

I have 2 open, $24,000 per year positions in St Augustine / Jacksonville for fiberglass laminators who can hit the ground running.
'
We are working on a pretty tricked out Kurt Hughes designed catamaran.

So, does anyone know of anyone looking for work?

Mods: If this post is in the wrong place, please let me know where I should make it. Thanks.

Contact at jobs@portsmouthmarine-catamarans.com

[Trendsetter]

Yea at 24k a year I am guessin you are getting bottom of the barrel skill set. I am guessing you can find some questionably legal people down in FL who can do this for you

[portsmouthmarine]

Yea at 24k a year I am guessin you are getting bottom of the barrel skill set. I am guessing you can find some questionably legal people down in FL who can do this for you

Actually, that is the going rate in this area. Exactly the going rate. It's not Annapolis. Totally different economy and cost of living here.

Check out the link to the average salary for laminators here. Sea Ray (in Palm Coast) pays even less.

http://www.indeed.co...ustine,-FL.html

[Overbored]

maybe thats the problem they all moved to where the pay is

[couchsurfer]

sure you'll find a desperate laminator,,maybe even skilled, who'll work till something better comes along,
,,,but why not strive to be that better place??

[portsmouthmarine]

sure you'll find a desperate laminator,,maybe even skilled, who'll work till something better comes along,
,,,but why not strive to be that better place??

Because it's a one off?

I don't think paying the median salary for any position is going to find you "desperate" types. By definition, it will find you "average" types.

[portsmouthmarine]

maybe thats the problem they all moved to where the pay is

Could be, but then they have to pay more in taxes, housing, food and pretty much all other costs.

Are you familiar with the fact that pay scales are different in different parts of the country? It has to do with cost of living. In Manhattan, NYC, I'd probably be looking at paying $80K for a laminator. It all depends on where you are.

Why do you think Gunboat moved to SC? RI is too expensive and it's a poor place to do business (due to the local government)

Anyway, yeah... hiring for 2 positions for $24K each.

[DA-WOODY]

maybe thats the problem they all moved to where the pay is

Could be, but then they have to pay more in taxes, housing, food and pretty much all other costs.

Are you familiar with the fact that pay scales are different in different parts of the country? It has to do with cost of living. In Manhattan, NYC, I'd probably be looking at paying $80K for a laminator. It all depends on where you are.

Why do you think Gunboat moved to SC? RI is too expensive and it's a poor place to do business (due to the local government)

Anyway, yeah... hiring for 2 positions for $24K each.

Can I work from Home

Please ship me out sum Drums of Rez Rolls of Mat & Cloth and lottsa Acetone

I'll get started in the AM

OH and as the cost of living is a bit more how about 25K (I'm not greedy)

[Steam Flyer]

maybe thats the problem they all moved to where the pay is

Could be, but then they have to pay more in taxes, housing, food and pretty much all other costs.

Are you familiar with the fact that pay scales are different in different parts of the country? It has to do with cost of living. In Manhattan, NYC, I'd probably be looking at paying $80K for a laminator. It all depends on where you are.

Why do you think Gunboat moved to SC? RI is too expensive and it's a poor place to do business (due to the local government)

Anyway, yeah... hiring for 2 positions for $24K each.

Ooo... I can laminate with each hand, may I take both positions?

Perhaps I shouldn't say any more, but have you observed how a capitalist economy works? You can say "this is the going rate" all you want, but if nobody will take it then you have to pay more (if buying) and drop your price (if selling). Or just sit on it. There is no other alternative.

This attitude comes up all the time in buying/selling boats. I guess we should mandate people turning their TVs off and playing Monopoly on Friday nights until they learn.

FB- Doug

[couchsurfer]

...what's

sure you'll find a desperate laminator,,maybe even skilled, who'll work till something better comes along,
,,,but why not strive to be that better place??

Because it's a one off?

I don't think paying the median salary for any position is going to find you "desperate" types. By definition, it will find you "average" types.

....what's with advertising an annual wage for a one-off.........kinda misleading,no?
.......not a good start

....and let's take a look at an 'average' glasser in the states
,,,,,,,,,, ,,kinda different than a skilled boatbuilder methinks

[bruno]

2,000 hrs.= $12/hr pretax, call it what it is, actually why TPI located their plant in Iowa, plus the incentives. Those were union jobs, I believe with a benefit package, if health insurance is worth $1k/month then combined package is $18/hr. per annum. Of course a house can be had for $100k there also. And this would have been indoor work with provided PPE, breaks, sick days, etc.,. Probably a 401k as well with some matching. And the employer would be paying his 20-40% contribution on top plus withholding, taxes, etc.,. As can be seen, just stating the wage rate can be misleading as to the total cost.

[One eye Jack]

If you want some guy that can lob chunks of fiberglass from a chop gun. You pay for what you get .Or are you wanting a good lite, composite sailing vessel that won't fall apart in a couple of years. You will be paying more for labor.The question is.. do you want quality..or quanity . If you want cheap get it built in China. I heard that the place that built the Flying tiger is one of the better boat builders. They can do it for about 1/6 th the 24,000 that you are looking for.

[One eye Jack]

Yea at 24k a year I am guessin you are getting bottom of the barrel skill set. I am guessing you can find some questionably legal people down in FL who can do this for you

Actually, that is the going rate in this area. Exactly the going rate. It's not Annapolis. Totally different economy and cost of living here.

Check out the link to the average salary for laminators here. Sea Ray (in Palm Coast) pays even less.

http://www.indeed.co...ustine,-FL.html

you do realize that laminators build car part, and other non boat parts, that doesn't take any real skill. And when you go into some of the boat plants and yell INS or ICE you will clean the place out of workers. not legal workers who will work for less and they maybe be skilled laminators, but are they boat builders, and you pay for what you get. You may want to investigate what a 24,000 a year laminator really knows and does. That sounds low for a fiberglass boat builder, even in Florida.

[basketcase]

so, its a part time job then? seriously, you are not going to find any one worth having for that pay.

[portsmouthmarine]

Ha ha ha! This forum certainly lives up to its well deserved reputation.

I'll worry about sorting through the applicants, thanks. I have 68 responses so far today, so... guess many of you are just playing around.

Full time job.

Last post for me. Enjoy.

[One eye Jack]

Good ,now where's the tits?

[FWThober]

$24,000/year is ~$11.50/hour. Prinicely.

Fucking chisler.

And a freaking noobie w/no tits.

Fuck off!

Frank

[Matt B]

maybe thats the problem they all moved to where the pay is

Could be, but then they have to pay more in taxes, housing, food and pretty much all other costs.

Are you familiar with the fact that pay scales are different in different parts of the country? It has to do with cost of living. In Manhattan, NYC, I'd probably be looking at paying $80K for a laminator. It all depends on where you are.

Why do you think Gunboat moved to SC? RI is too expensive and it's a poor place to do business (due to the local government)

Anyway, yeah... hiring for 2 positions for $24K each.

You're building a high performance catamaran and don't know where gunboats are built?
Try Wachese, NC.

[GnarlyItWas]

This guy is trying to hire people, I applaud him for it.

[One eye Jack]

This guy is trying to hire people, I applaud him for it.

You could make more working at McDonald's that what he wants to play a skilled laminate guy

[R Booth]

Jfc, I won't even answer my fuking phone for twenty four bucks. So why doncha be a good 'Stimulator' instead and and kick it up to, oh let's say, a nice round number----like maybe $31,381.74k @ year. Plus free beer on Fridays. Then I'm sure by 0900 tomorrow you'll have lines around your (OSHA?) approved shop like it was a g-damn Britney Spears concert......

[Foghorn77]

maybe thats the problem they all moved to where the pay is

Could be, but then they have to pay more in taxes, housing, food and pretty much all other costs.

Are you familiar with the fact that pay scales are different in different parts of the country? It has to do with cost of living. In Manhattan, NYC, I'd probably be looking at paying $80K for a laminator. It all depends on where you are.

Why do you think Gunboat moved to SC? RI is too expensive and it's a poor place to do business (due to the local government)

Anyway, yeah... hiring for 2 positions for $24K each.

You're building a high performance catamaran and don't know where gunboats are built?
Try Wachese, NC.

That's WaNchese to be exact.
His (portsmouthmarine) wage is about the same as what the NCESU is paying, hiring folks for Gunboat in Wanchese.

[Mud sailor]

I used to work for a large powerboat manufacturer (not Sea Ray but close) and we had a plant in TN, one night the lamination swing shift didn't show up, why, the new WalMart opening in town paid shelf stockers more than we paid our laminators!

[R Booth]

I used to work for a large powerboat manufacturer (not Sea Ray but close) and we had a plant in TN, one night the lamination swing shift didn't show up, why, the new WalMart opening in town paid shelf stockers more than we paid our laminators!

Funny you mentioned that---I was trying to recall what us residential construction contractors used to pay our Latino laborers (up until 3 years ago, whent e SHTF). Basically if they had a car, some rudimentary tools and knew seven words of English, they made $120.00 @ day, impuestas gratis. A guy with a truck, full tool set, knew how to drive a Skil Saw and could actually follow some basic orders & perform some basic carpentry? $165.00 a day. And up---tax free.

Hope the new owner of your 'one off' multi has the same luck as the Bumfuzzles did on their circumnavy. And that your last check clears before they take delivery....

[Trendsetter]

I know 12 years ago when I was working for a boat manufacturer thy were hiring non English speaking people from Laos who have never seen fiberglass before I am fairly certain. They were starting at $12-13 an hour back then! Yes the cost of living in michigan isn't high end as well

[R Booth]

I know 12 years ago when I was working for a boat manufacturer thy were hiring non English speaking people from Laos who have never seen fiberglass before I am fairly certain. They were starting at $12-13 an hour back then! Yes the cost of living in michigan isn't high end as well

Jfc, back in '76 when I was just 19, I dumped a $12.50 an hour job sourcing materials for 150 guys refurbishing antiques for the worlds largest architectural auction company in America, for a job at a Mom & Pop lumber yard down the street---at fifteen bucks @ hour. Three years later (when I left to start my own biz) I was making $18.25...with paid medical, paid vacations and a grand/two grand annual Christmas bonus. I was only 23 at the time, but between living on the Strand for free (managing an 8-plex), my coke dealing bizness plus the money I made at the lumber yard, I was living in eighth heaven.

God damn but I sure miss the fuking 80's......

[hobot]

JFC Boothy (omg...some people!) you know the rules....what went on in the 80's stays in the 80's!

[MR.CLEAN]

Close friend/boatbuilder in the Carolinas recruit panga and fishing boat repair guys from Baja and the Mex Pacific coast for all their glasswork. $20/hour minimum for these very skilled migrants, similar cost of living to Florida's cheaper spots. His Caribbean-origin carbon guy makes more.

But then again, quality is important to this shop. If all he was doing was fixing old Whalers, he'd have that 12$/hour guy that the OP wanted.

[Timmys_Trick_Turkey]

You can make $12 an hour sitting on your ass, driving an airconditioned cab for a 12 hour shift... why would you want to get resin on your jeans, and fibreglass grindings in your hair, and gelcoat coated nostril hair for that pathetic amount ?...

[Paps]

Worked at a hot tub place in Costa Mesa with a bunch of Mexicans in '81, dodgy SS#, no green card for $8 an hour. 30 plus years later the going rate is $12 ?? How would all these cheapskates survive without migrant workers.

Actually those Mexicans were bloody good laminators but the farts after lunch were leathal.

[SailBlueH2O]

24.55 K and you send a van...

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[4knotSB]

I used to work for a large powerboat manufacturer (not Sea Ray but close) and we had a plant in TN, one night the lamination swing shift didn't show up, why, the new WalMart opening in town paid shelf stockers more than we paid our laminators!

Funny you mentioned that---I was trying to recall what us residential construction contractors used to pay our Latino laborers (up until 3 years ago, whent e SHTF). Basically if they had a car, some rudimentary tools and knew seven words of English, they made $120.00 @ day, impuestas gratis. A guy with a truck, full tool set, knew how to drive a Skil Saw and could actually follow some basic orders & perform some basic carpentry? $165.00 a day. And up---tax free.

Hope the new owner of your 'one off' multi has the same luck as the Bumfuzzles did on their circumnavy. And that your last check clears before they take delivery....

Thing is, that was then . This is now.

[Boo-Yah]

Ok, sitting here ready to get my ass served to me, but I didn't see a "classified" section.

I have 2 open, $24,000 per year positions in St Augustine / Jacksonville for fiberglass laminators who can hit the ground running.
'
We are working on a pretty tricked out Kurt Hughes designed catamaran.

So, does anyone know of anyone looking for work?

Mods: If this post is in the wrong place, please let me know where I should make it. Thanks.

Contact at jobs@portsmouthmarine-catamarans.com

Do you have to stay the whole year to get the 24K? How much can I get in advance?

[atefooterz]

Worked at a hot tub place in Costa Mesa with a bunch of Mexicans in '81, dodgy SS#, no green card for $8 an hour. 30 plus years later the going rate is $12 ?? How would all these cheapskates survive without migrant workers.

Actually those Mexicans were bloody good laminators but the farts after lunch were leathal.

No different to an American Co i subcontract to here... 1991 was $20ph 2012 is $25ph !! Howard Reith & the current mob have allowed real good globalisation,in Aussie, at grass roots semi skilled level. The guy who greenlights me however has gone from $65k per year to $135K per year, during the same period naturally Lolz

[walterbshaffer]

Holy crap!

Why take a job at 24k a year when the gov't will pay you twice that for not working? And as long as you can take time out of your busy schedule to vote the program goes on forever.

Meanwhile in some overseas backwoods there are people who would be so proud & grateful for a skilled job like this and will train night & day to make certain it stays thiers: "those people" are just as smart & as trainable as any unionista.

Wake up. The rest of the world is knocking on your door.

[kent_island_sailor]

JFC!
$12/HR!
I was paying boat labor more than that - $16/hr if I recall - back in *1994* and I was losing them to higher paying shops. I think I made about that at a boatbuilder in the mid 1980s as a newb!

I wouldn't want to be on a boat at sea built by McDs level workers.


EDIT: I cannot imagine anyone that could run a computer well enough to read this forum would sign up to work with toxic chemicals for that wage.

[kent_island_sailor]

Can you hook me up? It would be a hit to the pocketbook for sure, but if my wife and I got $48K each for doing nothing we could find some cash-under-the-table shit to do and sleep in most days

Holy crap!

Why take a job at 24k a year when the gov't will pay you twice that for not working? And as long as you can take time out of your busy schedule to vote the program goes on forever.

Meanwhile in some overseas backwoods there are people who would be so proud & grateful for a skilled job like this and will train night & day to make certain it stays thiers: "those people" are just as smart & as trainable as any unionista.

Wake up. The rest of the world is knocking on your door.

[Steam Flyer]

.... ... ...

I wouldn't want to be on a boat at sea built by McDs level workers.


EDIT: I cannot imagine anyone that could run a computer well enough to read this forum would sign up to work with toxic chemicals for that wage.

Agreed on both points

Even if they have to find their way to the public library for computer access.

But hey, at some point in the de-evolution of the economy and human society, you won't have to pay shit workers shit. Just fuckin' whip them if they don't work hard enough for nothing.

Progress!! Just think how great life will be, then!

FB- Doug

[DA-WOODY]

.... ... ...

I wouldn't want to be on a boat at sea built by McDs level workers.


EDIT: I cannot imagine anyone that could run a computer well enough to read this forum would sign up to work with toxic chemicals for that wage.

Agreed on both points

Even if they have to find their way to the public library for computer access.

But hey, at some point in the de-evolution of the economy and human society, you won't have to pay shit workers shit. Just fuckin' whip them if they don't work hard enough for nothing.

Progress!! Just think how great life will be, then!

FB- Doug

Did I hear some DEVO ????

[6924]

Reality = 22% unemployment in the US for the last 4 years has depressed wages quite a bit.

$12 an hour times 2 equals median household income.

Get used to it

[miscut jib]

Reality = 22% unemployment in the US for the last 4 years has depressed wages quite a bit.

$12 an hour times 2 equals median household income.

Get used to it

Sure there's decent people out there who could do a good job who'll work for that.

Are there many people already experienced in the industry who aren't fuckups that'll work for that? dunno, but imo that's pretty low for an experienced non-fuckup most anywhere outside of fastfood.

[Paps]

Holy crap!

Why take a job at 24k a year when the gov't will pay you twice that for not working? And as long as you can take time out of your busy schedule to vote the program goes on forever.

Meanwhile in some overseas backwoods there are people who would be so proud & grateful for a skilled job like this and will train night & day to make certain it stays thiers: "those people" are just as smart & as trainable as any unionista.

Wake up. The rest of the world is knocking on your door.

Good thinking Walter lets bring overseas backwoods conditions and pay to first world economies, that'll fix everything. As long as its across the board.

[Pointy End]

Better get 'em hired fast. Luhrs is returning to St. Augustine.

[walterbshaffer]

Holy crap!

Why take a job at 24k a year when the gov't will pay you twice that for not working? And as long as you can take time out of your busy schedule to vote the program goes on forever.

Meanwhile in some overseas backwoods there are people who would be so proud & grateful for a skilled job like this and will train night & day to make certain it stays thiers: "those people" are just as smart & as trainable as any unionista.

Wake up. The rest of the world is knocking on your door.

Good thinking Walter lets bring overseas backwoods conditions and pay to first world economies, that'll fix everything. As long as its across the board.

You make it sound like low pay is something I'm advocating... which is silly.

I'm only pointing out that the pay disparities in the world are going to even out and as that occurs no union, politician or businessman/employer is going to be able to preserve local wages which make the product unsaleable.

[R Booth]

Holy crap!

Why take a job at 24k a year when the gov't will pay you twice that for not working? And as long as you can take time out of your busy schedule to vote the program goes on forever.

Meanwhile in some overseas backwoods there are people who would be so proud & grateful for a skilled job like this and will train night & day to make certain it stays thiers: "those people" are just as smart & as trainable as any unionista.

Wake up. The rest of the world is knocking on your door.

Good thinking Walter lets bring overseas backwoods conditions and pay to first world economies, that'll fix everything. As long as its across the board.

You make it sound like low pay is something I'm advocating... which is silly.

I'm only pointing out that the pay disparities in the world are going to even out and as that occurs no union, politician or businessman/employer is going to be able to preserve local wages which make the product unsaleable.

You either end up with a huge class of poor people who can only afford shit made by other poor people 5th World workers----OR, you have a huge middle income class of folks who can afford shit made here, by other middle income folks.


See my sig line for more info.....

[Shibby]

Holy crap!

Why take a job at 24k a year when the gov't will pay you twice that for not working? And as long as you can take time out of your busy schedule to vote the program goes on forever.

Meanwhile in some overseas backwoods there are people who would be so proud & grateful for a skilled job like this and will train night & day to make certain it stays thiers: "those people" are just as smart & as trainable as any unionista.

Wake up. The rest of the world is knocking on your door.

I dont work how do I get some govcheese???

[Shibby]

http://www.serve.gov/sandy/

[mad]

This needs to go to PA before the blood, piss and shit stains the walls.

Stop buying cheap shit!

[ramwel2010]

Most of you appear to be pretty far removed from what the world is really like these days. I guess the demographics of the sport are partly responsible for that. To give you some background, I had my ass handed to me in 2009. Actually, it started in 2008 when I took a voluntary pay cut to the tune of 25%. 1/4 of my pay... gone... in an attempt to keep the business moving. In early 2009 the company I worked for collapsed as our customer base lost access to credit. I lost my very comfortable salary just a few weeks after closing on a new home.

I then began the hell of unemployment and looking for a new job. Based on the comments above, I will assume that most of you have no experience with this. Walter, the gubmint cheese will not pay you north of $40K for doing nothing. I don't know where you got that information, but it is false. Unemployment pays approximately $1400/month, and you have to pay taxes on that. Please spare the 'handout' b.s., since both the employer and employee pay into and fund (under normal circumstances) the UIA system. I was one of the many who exhausted their unemployment benefits. After those are up, you get nothing. This was no vacation. There was nothing fun about it. You are then at the mercy of charities and other outreach agencies at that point.

During unemployment I applied for hundreds of jobs. I'm not saying that to exaggerate. I literally applied for hundreds of jobs. I'm college educated and have an excellent resume. Like many in the Midwest, my background was in the automotive industry at the management level. Since 2009, I have received 2 legitimate responses and one interview. One interview. That interview was for a finance manager job at a car dealership, and when I told them I wouldn't compromise my ethics, they told me they weren't interested.

All of the "jobs" I've had since 2009 have been through friends and acquaintances. My first foray back to the workforce was doing occasional remodel jobs with a neighbor. The pay was sporadic at best and the wage was $10/hr. I happily accepted that for about half a year until another friend hired me to manage a section of his small business for $12/hr. The commute to this job was 70 miles each way. I happily accepted that pay for about a year until another friend connected me to a job at the same wage, but much closer to home. I worked six months at that job, stuffing boxes for a manufacturer, until just recently when I finally landed a job with some promise. This job again came through a friend. While the initial wage is not where I want to be, the framework is in place for me to be back where I was within two years and the benefit package is acceptable. Two of these jobs, including my current position, were from fellow YC members. The other two were from helpful neighbors.

If this new job progresses as planned, I will have spent half of a decade just trying to work my way back to where I was in 2009. I consider myself one of the lucky. We kept our home, cars, and most of all, our sanity. Our credit has been dinged but not ruined. My spouse and I have always based our purchases on 50% of our household income. The flaw in this was that our incomes are not equal. When I lost my job, our income was at about 30% of normal. My spouse has an advanced degree, but works in the rather low paying social services industry. Unemployment insurance helped, but even with that we depleted our savings, and by 2011 we had to make a partial withdrawal from our retirement accounts (what was left of them) to make ends meet. We also had to borrow money from family during this period.

I know engineers who, until recently, WERE working at McDonalds for $12/hr. That is the reality of the world we currently live in. Those of you saying you wouldn't pick up the phone for less than $20 don't seem to have a clue as to what is really going on out there. People are struggling. $12/hr is a Godsend to people who were used to making $30/hr right now. The economy IS improving. I'm living proof of that, however it will be a very long time before it resembles anything like we were used to. I'm happy that so many of you can't relate to this, but I implore you to give a bit more thought to those who have had to struggle, to reinvent themselves, and to just plain survive this recession.

I now work in an industry that is completely new to me and have to prove myself and rebuild my career all over again. I am thrilled at the opportunity to do so. Without those $10 and $12 jobs in-between, I'm not sure my spouse and I would have made it to this point. I too once scoffed at the idea of having to work for peanuts. Then I had to live it. Working as grown, college educated, seasoned adult, for the same wage I had working for beer money at University was a very humbling experience. I have a great deal more respect these days for the guy toiling away at $12/hr than I do for the guy with the overstuffed ego bragging about what he won't do.

[eliboat]

Good points Ranwel. This is why 12/hr for laminators in FL is probably not unreasonable. Boat building of any kind is really not going to make anyone rich, at least not the folks on the floor. 12/hr is about what you would expect to see for basic laminators, and this is what the OP was looking for. The fact is that people really aren't interested in paying the price for what it actually takes to manufacture a custom or high end boat. It's an inefficient process, and the margins are extremely slim. The fact that the used market is saturated with millions of perfectly good boats at a much reduced cost makes things even harder. Now, it is true that some laminators can get more than 12$/hr and some people are willing to pay that, but I haven't seen too many calls for laminators that are paying for much more than that, and I've been working in this industry for a while now. All of that said, the turnover rate can be pretty high, especially when a fellow realizes that his quality of life is pretty miserable working in a polyester shop in 90 FL heat. That's why a smart shop owner will pay more to retain the really skilled guys, so the potential to earn more quickly is probably greater than working in a WalMart.

[Foghorn77]

Most of you appear to be pretty far removed from what the world is really like these days. I guess the demographics of the sport are partly responsible for that. To give you some background, I had my ass handed to me in 2009. Actually, it started in 2008 when I took a voluntary pay cut to the tune of 25%. 1/4 of my pay... gone... in an attempt to keep the business moving. In early 2009 the company I worked for collapsed as our customer base lost access to credit. I lost my very comfortable salary just a few weeks after closing on a new home.

I then began the hell of unemployment and looking for a new job. Based on the comments above, I will assume that most of you have no experience with this. Walter, the gubmint cheese will not pay you north of $40K for doing nothing. I don't know where you got that information, but it is false. Unemployment pays approximately $1400/month, and you have to pay taxes on that. Please spare the 'handout' b.s., since both the employer and employee pay into and fund (under normal circumstances) the UIA system. I was one of the many who exhausted their unemployment benefits. After those are up, you get nothing. This was no vacation. There was nothing fun about it. You are then at the mercy of charities and other outreach agencies at that point.

During unemployment I applied for hundreds of jobs. I'm not saying that to exaggerate. I literally applied for hundreds of jobs. I'm college educated and have an excellent resume. Like many in the Midwest, my background was in the automotive industry at the management level. Since 2009, I have received 2 legitimate responses and one interview. One interview. That interview was for a finance manager job at a car dealership, and when I told them I wouldn't compromise my ethics, they told me they weren't interested.

All of the "jobs" I've had since 2009 have been through friends and acquaintances. My first foray back to the workforce was doing occasional remodel jobs with a neighbor. The pay was sporadic at best and the wage was $10/hr. I happily accepted that for about half a year until another friend hired me to manage a section of his small business for $12/hr. The commute to this job was 70 miles each way. I happily accepted that pay for about a year until another friend connected me to a job at the same wage, but much closer to home. I worked six months at that job, stuffing boxes for a manufacturer, until just recently when I finally landed a job with some promise. This job again came through a friend. While the initial wage is not where I want to be, the framework is in place for me to be back where I was within two years and the benefit package is acceptable. Two of these jobs, including my current position, were from fellow YC members. The other two were from helpful neighbors.

If this new job progresses as planned, I will have spent half of a decade just trying to work my way back to where I was in 2009. I consider myself one of the lucky. We kept our home, cars, and most of all, our sanity. Our credit has been dinged but not ruined. My spouse and I have always based our purchases on 50% of our household income. The flaw in this was that our incomes are not equal. When I lost my job, our income was at about 30% of normal. My spouse has an advanced degree, but works in the rather low paying social services industry. Unemployment insurance helped, but even with that we depleted our savings, and by 2011 we had to make a partial withdrawal from our retirement accounts (what was left of them) to make ends meet. We also had to borrow money from family during this period.

I know engineers who, until recently, WERE working at McDonalds for $12/hr. That is the reality of the world we currently live in. Those of you saying you wouldn't pick up the phone for less than $20 don't seem to have a clue as to what is really going on out there. People are struggling. $12/hr is a Godsend to people who were used to making $30/hr right now. The economy IS improving. I'm living proof of that, however it will be a very long time before it resembles anything like we were used to. I'm happy that so many of you can't relate to this, but I implore you to give a bit more thought to those who have had to struggle, to reinvent themselves, and to just plain survive this recession.

I now work in an industry that is completely new to me and have to prove myself and rebuild my career all over again. I am thrilled at the opportunity to do so. Without those $10 and $12 jobs in-between, I'm not sure my spouse and I would have made it to this point. I too once scoffed at the idea of having to work for peanuts. Then I had to live it. Working as grown, college educated, seasoned adult, for the same wage I had working for beer money at University was a very humbling experience. I have a great deal more respect these days for the guy toiling away at $12/hr than I do for the guy with the overstuffed ego bragging about what he won't do.

+1

[kent_island_sailor]

I just did the inflation calculator thingy and in 1985 I was getting $8/hr at a boatbuilder for a summer job and I was the lowest paid guy there since I was a rank n00b. That would be $16.46 today.
The $16/hr I was paying guys in 1994 would be $23.00/hr today.

Has it occurred to anyone that we have undone progress back to before the Model T when Henry Ford decided that workers needed to be able to BUY the products This isn't the 1930s either when pay was low but so were prices.

EDIT:
70 miles each way for a $12/hr job! OUCH!
For me that would be 4 gallons of gas and lunch - say $22 a day. After taxes, about a third of my day just to pay to GET THERE and back.

[FOOKINWAVE]

Half a loaf is better than no loaf. As long as your working you will be allright. You can make adjustments just like sails.

[jerseyguy]

Can you hook me up? It would be a hit to the pocketbook for sure, but if my wife and I got $48K each for doing nothing we could find some cash-under-the-table shit to do and sleep in most days

Holy crap!

Why take a job at 24k a year when the gov't will pay you twice that for not working? And as long as you can take time out of your busy schedule to vote the program goes on forever.

Meanwhile in some overseas backwoods there are people who would be so proud & grateful for a skilled job like this and will train night & day to make certain it stays thiers: "those people" are just as smart & as trainable as any unionista.

Wake up. The rest of the world is knocking on your door.

Hey, don't forget me and my wife. 96K a year in cash and "stuff" simply to wake up in the morning. Even I can do that.

[walterbshaffer]

Walter, the gubmint cheese will not pay you north of $40K for doing nothing. I don't know where you got that information, but it is false. Unemployment pays approximately $1400/month, and you have to pay taxes on that.

You are right about that; I was just guessing at it. Calif does pay $450 a week and I know your story, during the 1989-1992 recesion I drove shuttles at the airport nights to pay the bills.

As far as the argument over whether $12 is a fair wage for the fglass laminator job I don't know, but I do know people who have been on unemployment for 3 years now and others who take every $12 an hour job they can find and there seem to be more & more $12 an hour jobs.

I'll say again that you can't blame the unions, politicians or businessmen employers for the depressed wages as none of them has the might to stand up to the global economy.

[A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake]

Most of you appear to be pretty far removed from what the world is really like these days. I guess the demographics of the sport are partly responsible for that. To give you some background, I had my ass handed to me in 2009. Actually, it started in 2008 when I took a voluntary pay cut to the tune of 25%. 1/4 of my pay... gone... in an attempt to keep the business moving. In early 2009 the company I worked for collapsed as our customer base lost access to credit. I lost my very comfortable salary just a few weeks after closing on a new home.

I then began the hell of unemployment and looking for a new job. Based on the comments above, I will assume that most of you have no experience with this. Walter, the gubmint cheese will not pay you north of $40K for doing nothing. I don't know where you got that information, but it is false. Unemployment pays approximately $1400/month, and you have to pay taxes on that. Please spare the 'handout' b.s., since both the employer and employee pay into and fund (under normal circumstances) the UIA system. I was one of the many who exhausted their unemployment benefits. After those are up, you get nothing. This was no vacation. There was nothing fun about it. You are then at the mercy of charities and other outreach agencies at that point.

During unemployment I applied for hundreds of jobs. I'm not saying that to exaggerate. I literally applied for hundreds of jobs. I'm college educated and have an excellent resume. Like many in the Midwest, my background was in the automotive industry at the management level. Since 2009, I have received 2 legitimate responses and one interview. One interview. That interview was for a finance manager job at a car dealership, and when I told them I wouldn't compromise my ethics, they told me they weren't interested.

All of the "jobs" I've had since 2009 have been through friends and acquaintances. My first foray back to the workforce was doing occasional remodel jobs with a neighbor. The pay was sporadic at best and the wage was $10/hr. I happily accepted that for about half a year until another friend hired me to manage a section of his small business for $12/hr. The commute to this job was 70 miles each way. I happily accepted that pay for about a year until another friend connected me to a job at the same wage, but much closer to home. I worked six months at that job, stuffing boxes for a manufacturer, until just recently when I finally landed a job with some promise. This job again came through a friend. While the initial wage is not where I want to be, the framework is in place for me to be back where I was within two years and the benefit package is acceptable. Two of these jobs, including my current position, were from fellow YC members. The other two were from helpful neighbors.

If this new job progresses as planned, I will have spent half of a decade just trying to work my way back to where I was in 2009. I consider myself one of the lucky. We kept our home, cars, and most of all, our sanity. Our credit has been dinged but not ruined. My spouse and I have always based our purchases on 50% of our household income. The flaw in this was that our incomes are not equal. When I lost my job, our income was at about 30% of normal. My spouse has an advanced degree, but works in the rather low paying social services industry. Unemployment insurance helped, but even with that we depleted our savings, and by 2011 we had to make a partial withdrawal from our retirement accounts (what was left of them) to make ends meet. We also had to borrow money from family during this period.

I know engineers who, until recently, WERE working at McDonalds for $12/hr. That is the reality of the world we currently live in. Those of you saying you wouldn't pick up the phone for less than $20 don't seem to have a clue as to what is really going on out there. People are struggling. $12/hr is a Godsend to people who were used to making $30/hr right now. The economy IS improving. I'm living proof of that, however it will be a very long time before it resembles anything like we were used to. I'm happy that so many of you can't relate to this, but I implore you to give a bit more thought to those who have had to struggle, to reinvent themselves, and to just plain survive this recession.

I now work in an industry that is completely new to me and have to prove myself and rebuild my career all over again. I am thrilled at the opportunity to do so. Without those $10 and $12 jobs in-between, I'm not sure my spouse and I would have made it to this point. I too once scoffed at the idea of having to work for peanuts. Then I had to live it. Working as grown, college educated, seasoned adult, for the same wage I had working for beer money at University was a very humbling experience. I have a great deal more respect these days for the guy toiling away at $12/hr than I do for the guy with the overstuffed ego bragging about what he won't do.

I'm glad you were able to persevere - and I appreciate you sharing your story w/this pack of mangy mutts. The reality check cleared quickly, and I hope that for those of us who haven't had to endure what you have, your story makes us think a little bit.

[A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake]

<SNIP>
Hey, don't forget me and my wife. 96K a year in cash and "stuff" simply to wake up in the morning. Even I can do that.

Huh? Color me stupid, but, I've obviously missed somethin'

[bruno]

proof is in the pudding, he got 68 applicants, hope that he is a good boss, wages for tradesmen have stagnated for the past 30 years even as productivity has risen and apprentice pools dropped. substitution effect at work, just ask where are the substitutes coming from and that is your answer. some are direct labor subs, some are end product subs, etc., so as noted above stop buying cheap shit from faraway places, if you think that there is something wrong here then pay your workers what they are worth and what they need to subsist in this world, and provide what they need to do your work well. unfortunately, you will be in a minority as your neighbors and competitors will be hiring the cheapest guys going and rationalizing the outcomes in their own way.

[F-18 5150]

I'm getting $50 a day to teach sailing (F-18's at a resort), and $100 a day for boat work. Plus room, board, travel, and expenses in the Philippines. Our work week is 6 days a week so $15,600 a year to $31,200 a year. $24,000 in Florida sounds a little shallow.

[miscut jib]

proof is in the pudding, he got 68 applicants

Post a job ad online and you'll get inundated with applicants - few qualified.

Yes, there are good people suffering out there who can do good Just saying that when someone says "experienced" that's code for "has a job" and the rate for "has a job" is higher than $12/hr

[Dawg Gonit]

proof is in the pudding, he got 68 applicants, hope that he is a good boss, wages for tradesmen have stagnated for the past 30 years even as productivity has risen and apprentice pools dropped.

You got that right.

I could never figure out how my Dad raised 5 boys and 1 Girl through the 70's. After retiring from the AIr Force in 69', he took a job a the Local Proctor and Gamble plane here in Oxnard. Like everyone else he had to learn the facility from the ground up by starting at the bottom (no College Degree). Because he had skills beyond the beginner level, he rapidly rose to the position of Head Plant Mechanic. Breaking Company records in less down time and Plant Refits, I'm sure his pay level rose to the "Back Then" amazing level of $20/hour due to his skills. Which, now I know how he supported a family of 8 people. I also know he made more than the mechanics now contracted to P&G for maintenance. I feel bad for the now generation, Wall Street Stock Valuations are far more important than People or the value of the work they do.

Back to the original topic. $25K a year here in So Cal will barely get you an apartment (room mates needed), unless you want to live in Barstow or commute from Bakersfield........................... Florida weather sucks, been there done that, vacations are great but forget the living there.

[jerseyguy]

proof is in the pudding, he got 68 applicants

Post a job ad online and you'll get inundated with applicants - few qualified.

Forget online. Some people will apply for any and every job and not because of the current economic situation. I once served on a search committee for a university president. Small school part of a large state university system. Obvious credentials required. PhD. university teaching and administrative experience, etc. Got applications from people who had BA degrees, people who were working on an online degree in "leadership," people who had managed a retail establishment, etc. Getting rid of 7/8 of the applicants took one meeting. The remaining 1/8 took months.

[Gouvernail]

Ok, sitting here ready to get my ass served to me, but I didn't see a "classified" section.

I have 2 open, $24,000 per year positions in St Augustine / Jacksonville for fiberglass laminators who can hit the ground running.
'
We are working on a pretty tricked out Kurt Hughes designed catamaran.

So, does anyone know of anyone looking for work?

Mods: If this post is in the wrong place, please let me know where I should make it. Thanks.

Contact at jobs@portsmouthmarine-catamarans.com

You disgust me

[DA-WOODY]

Most of you appear to be pretty far removed from what the world is really like these days. I guess the demographics of the sport are partly responsible for that. To give you some background, I had my ass handed to me in 2009. Actually, it started in 2008 when I took a voluntary pay cut to the tune of 25%. 1/4 of my pay... gone... in an attempt to keep the business moving. In early 2009 the company I worked for collapsed as our customer base lost access to credit. I lost my very comfortable salary just a few weeks after closing on a new home.

I then began the hell of unemployment and looking for a new job. Based on the comments above, I will assume that most of you have no experience with this. Walter, the gubmint cheese will not pay you north of $40K for doing nothing. I don't know where you got that information, but it is false. Unemployment pays approximately $1400/month, and you have to pay taxes on that. Please spare the 'handout' b.s., since both the employer and employee pay into and fund (under normal circumstances) the UIA system. I was one of the many who exhausted their unemployment benefits. After those are up, you get nothing. This was no vacation. There was nothing fun about it. You are then at the mercy of charities and other outreach agencies at that point.

During unemployment I applied for hundreds of jobs. I'm not saying that to exaggerate. I literally applied for hundreds of jobs. I'm college educated and have an excellent resume. Like many in the Midwest, my background was in the automotive industry at the management level.

But then
No Really 1/2 a tip wudda been fine - Butt Nooooooooooooo



Since 2009, I have received 2 legitimate responses and one interview. One interview. That interview was for a finance manager job at a car dealership, and when I told them I wouldn't compromise my ethics, they told me they weren't interested.

All of the "jobs" I've had since 2009 have been through friends and acquaintances. My first foray back to the workforce was doing occasional remodel jobs with a neighbor. The pay was sporadic at best and the wage was $10/hr. I happily accepted that for about half a year until another friend hired me to manage a section of his small business for $12/hr. The commute to this job was 70 miles each way. I happily accepted that pay for about a year until another friend connected me to a job at the same wage, but much closer to home. I worked six months at that job, stuffing boxes for a manufacturer,



until just recently when I finally landed a job with some promise. This job again came through a friend. While the initial wage is not where I want to be, the framework is in place for me to be back where I was within two years and the benefit package is acceptable. Two of these jobs, including my current position, were from fellow YC members. The other two were from helpful neighbors.

If this new job progresses as planned, I will have spent half of a decade just trying to work my way back to where I was in 2009. I consider myself one of the lucky. We kept our home, cars, and most of all, our sanity. Our credit has been dinged but not ruined. My spouse and I have always based our purchases on 50% of our household income. The flaw in this was that our incomes are not equal. When I lost my job, our income was at about 30% of normal. My spouse has an advanced degree, but works in the rather low paying social services industry. Unemployment insurance helped, but even with that we depleted our savings, and by 2011 we had to make a partial withdrawal from our retirement accounts (what was left of them) to make ends meet. We also had to borrow money from family during this period.

I know engineers who, until recently, WERE working at McDonalds for $12/hr. That is the reality of the world we currently live in. Those of you saying you wouldn't pick up the phone for less than $20 don't seem to have a clue as to what is really going on out there. People are struggling. $12/hr is a Godsend to people who were used to making $30/hr right now. The economy IS improving. I'm living proof of that, however it will be a very long time before it resembles anything like we were used to. I'm happy that so many of you can't relate to this, but I implore you to give a bit more thought to those who have had to struggle, to reinvent themselves, and to just plain survive this recession.

I now work in an industry that is completely new to me and have to prove myself and rebuild my career all over again. I am thrilled at the opportunity to do so. Without those $10 and $12 jobs in-between, I'm not sure my spouse and I would have made it to this point. I too once scoffed at the idea of having to work for peanuts. Then I had to live it. Working as grown, college educated, seasoned adult, for the same wage I had working for beer money at University was a very humbling experience. I have a great deal more respect these days for the guy toiling away at $12/hr than I do for the guy with the overstuffed ego bragging about what he won't do.

[R Booth]

Ok, sitting here ready to get my ass served to me, but I didn't see a "classified" section.

I have 2 open, $24,000 per year positions in St Augustine / Jacksonville for fiberglass laminators who can hit the ground running.
'
We are working on a pretty tricked out Kurt Hughes designed catamaran.

So, does anyone know of anyone looking for work?

Mods: If this post is in the wrong place, please let me know where I should make it. Thanks.

Contact at jobs@portsmouthmarine-catamarans.com

You disgust me

Mr. Thread? Meet Miss Legs.....

[Timmys_Trick_Turkey]

Well in australia, there is no "end of the unemployment payments". Providing you keep making an effort by showing a couple of newspaper cuttings, and maybe keeping a diary of attempts at getting a job, you can live on the dole for 3 generations....And where do you find those people ? Immigrants who would rather live in their own little communities, or the indigenous, who are exempt from travelling to look for work. They sit under a gum tree and drink port. At meal times, they get free food and overnight accommodation. Next morning, its back to the gumtree again. They get more than $12 an hour, for just breathing, and then they go on disability, where even less is expected from them.

[atefooterz]

Well in australia, there is no "end of the unemployment payments". Providing you keep making an effort by showing a couple of newspaper cuttings, and maybe keeping a diary of attempts at getting a job, you can live on the dole for 3 generations....And where do you find those people ? Immigrants who would rather live in their own little communities, or the indigenous, who are exempt from travelling to look for work. They sit under a gum tree and drink port. At meal times, they get free food and overnight accommodation. Next morning, its back to the gumtree again. They get more than $12 an hour, for just breathing, and then they go on disability, where even less is expected from them.

Well AUD $6.10 per hour actually so maybe USD$12ph lolz!

[mad]

Let's hope the owner of the boat see's this, wonder how much he's getting charged for the work?

[mad]

http://www.portsmout...catamarans.com/

website could do with a little work, maybe he can get a $12/hr web guy as well?

[stranded]

from web page:

we deliver high performance catamarans without compromise.

[kent_island_sailor]

I bet you *can* get a web monkey for $12/hr right now

[hobot]

These guys have got to be be paying more.

http://www.composite...mposite-tooling

[Steam Flyer]

proof is in the pudding, he got 68 applicants,

Yep
And these "68 applicants" are all experienced, skilled, produce zero-defect work in shortest possible time, etc etc.

It says so on the INTERNET, it must be trooo-ooo-oo !!!

... ...
competitors will be hiring the cheapest guys going and rationalizing the outcomes in their own way.

Well, there you go. Everybody is hypnotized by "the cheapest."

I am a blue-collar worker who got lucky... learned over time to handle more complex jobs & supervise others. The small-ish company I worked for had the opposite philosophy.We did not even bother to submit bids when contractees were looking for low price work. Our motto was "we fix what the low bidder fucked up" and the mechanics & technicians that I worked with needed to have the attitude of doing their best, at a minimum doing it right the first time or hit the door. After our 2nd year in business we had to start turning away work, and we had a backlog + turned-down offers for the next 15 years (then the company was sold and I "retired" but that's another story) . Good luck? yes. Lotta hard work and refusal to accept excuses? yes Cream rising to the top? maybe

FB- Doug

edit- PS my point is that if you hire workers who are motivated to do a GOOD job, in a timely manner, they are worth paying more (assuming that -you- know how to make money on their work) than a bunch of bottom-of-the-barrel cheapest-possible-hourly-rate jackoffs who consider working for you to be a dead end. The problem here is that it takes the know-how to recognize a good job and motivated management. It's much easier to treat employees like enemies and attempt to flog them into productive work, while blaming them for low quality of product.

[jerseyguy]

proof is in the pudding, he got 68 applicants,

Yep
And these "68 applicants" are all experienced, skilled, produce zero-defect work in shortest possible time, etc etc.

It says so on the INTERNET, it must be trooo-ooo-oo !!!

... ...
competitors will be hiring the cheapest guys going and rationalizing the outcomes in their own way.

Well, there you go. Everybody is hypnotized by "the cheapest."

I am a blue-collar worker who got lucky... learned over time to handle more complex jobs & supervise others. The small-ish company I worked for had the opposite philosophy.We did not even bother to submit bids when contractees were looking for low price work. Our motto was "we fix what the low bidder fucked up"

I've been going to my barber for 40+years. Italian guy and now his son. About a mile away a shop opened up with a big sign "$5 haircuts." Told my guy to put a sign in his window: "We fix $5 Haircuts." The $5 guy is now $8 and my guy is still $15 ($13 for we senior citizens).

[radicalmove]

This guy must not be trying too hard, and if he really wants to succeed he better get moving.
First, all of the laid off people from Luhrs/Mainship are probably still around. And Marlow
just purchased the land and old factories with the intent of moving some of their power
boat production to the site from China, and possibly re-starting Mainship there if they don't
have the room at Hunter's facility. In short, his competition for quality workers is about to get fierce.
I have no idea what Hunter is paying for laminators, but that would be what sets "the market price".

[Windward]

Wow... Ramwel2010 posted a manifesto for his first post. Bravo.

[basketcase]

tell you what, im a master boat builder/shop foreman in a smallish canadian shop. we have a hard time finding people that want to work in the environment. it stinks, it is itchy, it can be sticky. its hard fucking work.
i spoke with the owner of the shop about this thread and what the op has to say, and what he wants. we had a hell of a good laugh.

[Dawg Gonit]

Well in australia, there is no "end of the unemployment payments". Providing you keep making an effort by showing a couple of newspaper cuttings, and maybe keeping a diary of attempts at getting a job, you can live on the dole for 3 generations....And where do you find those people ? Immigrants who would rather live in their own little communities, or the indigenous, who are exempt from travelling to look for work. They sit under a gum tree and drink port. At meal times, they get free food and overnight accommodation. Next morning, its back to the gumtree again. They get more than $12 an hour, for just breathing, and then they go on disability, where even less is expected from them.

Here in Ventucky, the boat yard I work hat has a Social leech. This guy rides a bike all over the place, he can walk and he works on his boat too. He Just sued Social Security for back Disability Payments, courtesy of some Lawyer who makes his living off of suing the government and then the government pays his fees for helping some worthless pile of flesh sue the government so he can live for free.

You should have heard this pile of flesh try and tell me why he is disabled. I almost looked for a baseball bat to beat him to a pulp.

I cannot wait for the human race to have a real cleansing of it's gene pool. Far too many takers than contributors.

[Paps]

Most of you appear to be pretty far removed from what the world is really like these days. I guess the demographics of the sport are partly responsible for that. To give you some background, I had my ass handed to me in 2009. Actually, it started in 2008 when I took a voluntary pay cut to the tune of 25%. 1/4 of my pay... gone... in an attempt to keep the business moving. In early 2009 the company I worked for collapsed as our customer base lost access to credit. I lost my very comfortable salary just a few weeks after closing on a new home.

I then began the hell of unemployment and looking for a new job. Based on the comments above, I will assume that most of you have no experience with this. Walter, the gubmint cheese will not pay you north of $40K for doing nothing. I don't know where you got that information, but it is false. Unemployment pays approximately $1400/month, and you have to pay taxes on that. Please spare the 'handout' b.s., since both the employer and employee pay into and fund (under normal circumstances) the UIA system. I was one of the many who exhausted their unemployment benefits. After those are up, you get nothing. This was no vacation. There was nothing fun about it. You are then at the mercy of charities and other outreach agencies at that point.

During unemployment I applied for hundreds of jobs. I'm not saying that to exaggerate. I literally applied for hundreds of jobs. I'm college educated and have an excellent resume. Like many in the Midwest, my background was in the automotive industry at the management level. Since 2009, I have received 2 legitimate responses and one interview. One interview. That interview was for a finance manager job at a car dealership, and when I told them I wouldn't compromise my ethics, they told me they weren't interested.

All of the "jobs" I've had since 2009 have been through friends and acquaintances. My first foray back to the workforce was doing occasional remodel jobs with a neighbor. The pay was sporadic at best and the wage was $10/hr. I happily accepted that for about half a year until another friend hired me to manage a section of his small business for $12/hr. The commute to this job was 70 miles each way. I happily accepted that pay for about a year until another friend connected me to a job at the same wage, but much closer to home. I worked six months at that job, stuffing boxes for a manufacturer, until just recently when I finally landed a job with some promise. This job again came through a friend. While the initial wage is not where I want to be, the framework is in place for me to be back where I was within two years and the benefit package is acceptable. Two of these jobs, including my current position, were from fellow YC members. The other two were from helpful neighbors.

If this new job progresses as planned, I will have spent half of a decade just trying to work my way back to where I was in 2009. I consider myself one of the lucky. We kept our home, cars, and most of all, our sanity. Our credit has been dinged but not ruined. My spouse and I have always based our purchases on 50% of our household income. The flaw in this was that our incomes are not equal. When I lost my job, our income was at about 30% of normal. My spouse has an advanced degree, but works in the rather low paying social services industry. Unemployment insurance helped, but even with that we depleted our savings, and by 2011 we had to make a partial withdrawal from our retirement accounts (what was left of them) to make ends meet. We also had to borrow money from family during this period.

I know engineers who, until recently, WERE working at McDonalds for $12/hr. That is the reality of the world we currently live in. Those of you saying you wouldn't pick up the phone for less than $20 don't seem to have a clue as to what is really going on out there. People are struggling. $12/hr is a Godsend to people who were used to making $30/hr right now. The economy IS improving. I'm living proof of that, however it will be a very long time before it resembles anything like we were used to. I'm happy that so many of you can't relate to this, but I implore you to give a bit more thought to those who have had to struggle, to reinvent themselves, and to just plain survive this recession.

I now work in an industry that is completely new to me and have to prove myself and rebuild my career all over again. I am thrilled at the opportunity to do so. Without those $10 and $12 jobs in-between, I'm not sure my spouse and I would have made it to this point. I too once scoffed at the idea of having to work for peanuts. Then I had to live it. Working as grown, college educated, seasoned adult, for the same wage I had working for beer money at University was a very humbling experience. I have a great deal more respect these days for the guy toiling away at $12/hr than I do for the guy with the overstuffed ego bragging about what he won't do.

I'm glad you were able to persevere - and I appreciate you sharing your story w/this pack of mangy mutts. The reality check cleared quickly, and I hope that for those of us who haven't had to endure what you have, your story makes us think a little bit.

+1.

This is what happens when the economy starts eating its own.

[amro]

tell you what, im a master boat builder/shop foreman in a smallish canadian shop. we have a hard time finding people that want to work in the environment. it stinks, it is itchy, it can be sticky. its hard fucking work.
i spoke with the owner of the shop about this thread and what the op has to say, and what he wants. we had a hell of a good laugh.

The local yards in vancouver have a high turnover and skill shortage simply due to wages. The yard i just left pays double the op's wage on average, and it's still low. Years ago they had a consultant tell them their wages were too high. Wages were cut 10% across the board. Lots of guys left for better work. I just left for a job making 1/3 more in wages, and with benefits included in the package, doubled my pay. Can't see myself ever going back to a yard unless it's a government contract.

[bruno]

how many today are willing (and happy) to buy a smaller but better built home? willing to make do with fewer quality goods rather than an overabundance of cheap crap from walmart? happy to park a bit further and walk if it means more greenery? when that changes then things will be different until then just more of the same.

[couchsurfer]

.............. I almost looked for a baseball bat to beat him to a pulp...................

...why not just use a camera??....he may not thank you for it,,but you'd be doing him a favor

[couchsurfer]

tell you what, im a master boat builder/shop foreman in a smallish canadian shop. we have a hard time finding people that want to work in the environment. it stinks, it is itchy, it can be sticky. its hard fucking work.
i spoke with the owner of the shop about this thread and what the op has to say, and what he wants. we had a hell of a good laugh.

The local yards in vancouver have a high turnover and skill shortage simply due to wages. The yard i just left pays double the op's wage on average, and it's still low. Years ago they had a consultant tell them their wages were too high. Wages were cut 10% across the board. Lots of guys left for better work. I just left for a job making 1/3 more in wages, and with benefits included in the package, doubled my pay. Can't see myself ever going back to a yard unless it's a government contract.

...would this be a certain operator in Lynwood??.......kinda sounds like F.F.

...............your PM box is full,,,send me a note if yer will.

[amro]

tell you what, im a master boat builder/shop foreman in a smallish canadian shop. we have a hard time finding people that want to work in the environment. it stinks, it is itchy, it can be sticky. its hard fucking work.
i spoke with the owner of the shop about this thread and what the op has to say, and what he wants. we had a hell of a good laugh.

The local yards in vancouver have a high turnover and skill shortage simply due to wages. The yard i just left pays double the op's wage on average, and it's still low. Years ago they had a consultant tell them their wages were too high. Wages were cut 10% across the board. Lots of guys left for better work. I just left for a job making 1/3 more in wages, and with benefits included in the package, doubled my pay. Can't see myself ever going back to a yard unless it's a government contract.

...would this be a certain operator in Lynwood??.......kinda sounds like F.F.

...............your PM box is full,,,send me a note if yer will.

This would be a certain operator on mitchell island. I worked for them up until 2009, got laid off after the 10% pay cut and taking a month off to go open water sailing. Bummed around a few other yards, went back to them in the summer. Nothing has changed. Still a gong show. When my current job came up I gave about 3 minutes notice, grabbed my tools and bolted. much better off for it. 5 days pay is like 7 there (ot included), and I am really working about 4 days a week.

[Steam Flyer]

how many today are willing (and happy) to buy a smaller but better built home? willing to make do with fewer quality goods rather than an overabundance of cheap crap from walmart? happy to park a bit further and walk if it means more greenery? when that changes then things will be different until then just more of the same.

Not direcly 'on topic' but certainly on target. Human nature being what it is, we can only expect so much -but- we don't have to trash everything in our way to have more more more, especially when we want it to be cheapo crap, and double especially when we are putting it on credit. Much of this 'choice' is based in our culture, which can be changed.

Right now we are seeing the result of 3 generations raised by TV... we can't force things back the way they were (and that wouldn't really be any better) but we can try to push things in a positive direction. Showing some respectfor a good day's work is positive, nyet?!?

Gee what made me go all philosophical all of a sudden. I need to get drunk and go sailing

FB- Doug

[Shibby]

I just want to know if he buys the beer at 2:30 and I may relocate from Mpls to St. Augustine...

[NorCalLaser]

guys, this is america, if this guy wants to pay a very low wage, he has every right to. and workers have every right to take their talents elsewhere, but you have to be willing to up and move.

ramwell, good on you sir. that was quite an inspiring post, and a testament to the great spirit of americans

[Steam Flyer]

guys, this is america, if this guy wants to pay a very low wage, he has every right to. and workers have every right to take their talents elsewhere, but you have to be willing to up and move.

ramwell, good on you sir. that was quite an inspiring post, and a testament to the great spirit of americans

Agreed on both points. Labor is a market.... not quite as free a market as some... The problem comes in when either force or fraud are brought to play on the workings of the market, and in this case we're getting a whiff of fraud passing off low-buck cheapo fiberglassing as high-end big$$$ composite lamination.

And my biograffic post was not intended to rebuke or refute Ramwel2010's story at all.

FB- Doug

[NorCalLaser]

guys, this is america, if this guy wants to pay a very low wage, he has every right to. and workers have every right to take their talents elsewhere, but you have to be willing to up and move.

ramwell, good on you sir. that was quite an inspiring post, and a testament to the great spirit of americans

Agreed on both points. Labor is a market.... not quite as free a market as some... The problem comes in when either force or fraud are brought to play on the workings of the market, and in this case we're getting a whiff of fraud passing off low-buck cheapo fiberglassing as high-end big$$$ composite lamination.

And my biograffic post was not intended to rebuke or refute Ramwel2010's story at all.

FB- Doug

ok, but you cant just accuse people of fraud, without knowing ALL the facts! how do you know they dont have the world's best training for these guys at this plant? perhaps theyre so closely supervised that a rookie can churn out top-notch lamination? of course its unlikely, but you just dont know...

[Windward]

http://www.portsmout...catamarans.com/

website could do with a little work, maybe he can get a $12/hr web guy as well?

Wow... I'd call him, but something says I shouldn't

[mad]

guys, this is america, if this guy wants to pay a very low wage, he has every right to. and workers have every right to take their talents elsewhere, but you have to be willing to up and move.

ramwell, good on you sir. that was quite an inspiring post, and a testament to the great spirit of americans

Agreed on both points. Labor is a market.... not quite as free a market as some... The problem comes in when either force or fraud are brought to play on the workings of the market, and in this case we're getting a whiff of fraud passing off low-buck cheapo fiberglassing as high-end big$$$ composite lamination.

And my biograffic post was not intended to rebuke or refute Ramwel2010's story at all.

FB- Doug

ok, but you cant just accuse people of fraud, without knowing ALL the facts! how do you know they dont have the world's best training for these guys at this plant? perhaps theyre so closely supervised that a rookie can churn out top-notch lamination? of course its unlikely, but you just dont know...

Agreed, but its a very valid point. The OP did state it was to work on a 'tricked out multi' and he only wants to pay $12/hr. No offence to the guys he hires, but its unlikely to find good guys at that rate. Keen and willing? Yes. Experienced? Not so likely.

[Great Red Shark]

You should have heard this pile of flesh try and tell me why he is disabled. I almost looked for a baseball bat to beat him to a pulp.

I cannot wait for the human race to have a real cleansing of it's gene pool. Far too many takers than contributors.

"Some day a real rain wil come and wash the scum off the streets."
- Robert DeNiro, Taxi Driver

[Steam Flyer]

... ... a whiff of fraud passing off low-buck cheapo fiberglassing as high-end big$$$ composite lamination.

ok, but you cant just accuse people of fraud, without knowing ALL the facts! how do you know they dont have the world's best training for these guys at this plant? perhaps theyre so closely supervised that a rookie can churn out top-notch lamination? of course its unlikely, but you just dont know...

Agreed, but its a very valid point. The OP did state it was to work on a 'tricked out multi' and he only wants to pay $12/hr. No offence to the guys he hires, but its unlikely to find good guys at that rate. Keen and willing? Yes. Experienced? Not so likely.

Well, I said a 'whiff of fraud' not an outright goddam theif & fraud. I would give him a chance to show what's what before making a definite accusation, but what we have so far is sniffy at best.

Maybe he has a top-notch aviation-grade laminater supervising; maybe he's offering training. But in my experience, 'training' is a benefit usually offered to entice workers and it is absent from the come-on.

Not really my business either way. However it reinforces the old saying 'let the buyer beware.'

FB- Doug

[USA190520]

Well in australia, there is no "end of the unemployment payments". Providing you keep making an effort by showing a couple of newspaper cuttings, and maybe keeping a diary of attempts at getting a job, you can live on the dole for 3 generations....And where do you find those people ? Immigrants who would rather live in their own little communities, or the indigenous, who are exempt from travelling to look for work. They sit under a gum tree and drink port. At meal times, they get free food and overnight accommodation. Next morning, its back to the gumtree again. They get more than $12 an hour, for just breathing, and then they go on disability, where even less is expected from them.

Here in Ventucky, the boat yard I work hat has a Social leech. This guy rides a bike all over the place, he can walk and he works on his boat too. He Just sued Social Security for back Disability Payments, courtesy of some Lawyer who makes his living off of suing the government and then the government pays his fees for helping some worthless pile of flesh sue the government so he can live for free.

You should have heard this pile of flesh try and tell me why he is disabled. I almost looked for a baseball bat to beat him to a pulp.

I cannot wait for the human race to have a real cleansing of it's gene pool. Far too many takers than contributors.

I'm all for handicapped parking scrutiny...

If you wheel in, park in the blue, hop out and skip to the door, a band of operatives appears and beats you into an honest person.

[LeoV]

I just left boatbuilding in 07, due to low salary, no future after doing it yrs, a boat is a boat.
build woody's to carbon raceyachts to serie production mini 650 to a WIG plane, and more oddity's.
But worst part: guys taking low salaries as they think its a dream job.

For production work low level laminator can be a cheap guy, to make a one off etc you need a team of skilled people 4 or 5. And you can only use one low salary idiot who sweeps the floor.
Maybe this joint is a luxury place and they want two floor sweepers who sometimes jump in to laminate big parts...

[mad]

But worst part: guys taking low salaries as they think its a dream job.

For production work low level laminator can be a cheap guy, to make a one off etc you need a team of skilled people 4 or 5. And you can only use one low salary idiot who sweeps the floor

and that just about sums up the whole thing up in one post.

Leo, have you got any pics of WIG?

[LeoV]

Better, got a video of the one we did build. It was the prototype that did see service as a commuter, recognizable by a laminated Dutch gulden (old money) in the area of the engine room (very illegal)



You will not believe it, factory in germany with 6 man did build the stepped hull, easy, flat surfaces.
We, my boss and I, did the whole upper part of the main hull in the same time, with the first 50 cm of the wing (very tedious job to get that right) in a big garage in the netherlands.
(climate controlled, dust controlled, and more neat stuff due to aircraft building rules, perfect for the worker)
Just the two of us : Subsequently my boss got hired to lead the factory there. I stayed behind. Did further work on wings and fins moulds, as I was good in that.

I did fly in the smaller test version they had, just because I had a vhf license required by one person...
Interesting to study flow, with oil mixed with graphite particles.

Man that was a trip into memory lane for me long time ago...

[portsmouthmarine]

74 applicants, total.

Both positions were filled Tuesday. I hired a former Sea Ray employee with 6 years laminating experience (prior to being laid off) and a guy with 12 years experience building one offs in Maine.

Obviously, all the negative "industry insider" jabs were pretty much full of hot air and the people posting them had no clue.

These positions were filled Tuesday. Both of them. We are no longer looking.

PS: These two laminators are for tabbing and some hand laminations. The infused hulls and beams are already done. Thanks for all the concern though... lol

[SailBlueH2O]

a pox on your house.......

[miscut jib]

74 applicants, total.

Both positions were filled Tuesday. I hired a former Sea Ray employee with 6 years laminating experience (prior to being laid off) and a guy with 12 years experience building one offs in Maine.

Obviously, all the negative "industry insider" jabs were pretty much full of hot air and the people posting them had no clue.

These positions were filled Tuesday. Both of them. We are no longer looking.

You've got this online presence thing nailed.