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Change over to a smock from jacket??

offshore yacht jacket smock racing

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#1 Boatfiend

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:29 AM

>Need gear recommendation

Bit of Background:
>Compete in around the cans offshore yacht races on the weekend
>More overnight racing passages to come with the possibility of Sydney to Hobart next year
>Mainly placed in bowman position

I currently own Musto MPX pants and Jacket but I am considering changing over to a smock.
Currently looking at either a dingy racing smock or a ocean smock (HPX, HH or otherwise).

Does it make much difference on the bow?
Would wearing an ocean smock on a passage be comfortable?
Are the latex seals comfortable enough to consider wearing for day racing or passages?
Any other suggestions?


OH and here are some newbie tits ( . )( . )

#2 Icedtea

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:57 AM

I changed from Jacket to Smock this Summer and am in pretty much the same situation as regards to the type of sailing I do.

I initially had the same concerns as you and was going to go the jacket route but a friend offered to sell me his TP2 smock and oants at a good price so I went for the smock.

Having raced the shit out of myself all Summer both inshore and offshore I'm pretty glad I made the switch, the smock is very dry and feels alot less bulky than a jacket.

The only downside is that they take a bit longer to put on when you get on watch, but in my mind that's an ok compromise to make when you end up so much warmer and drier...

#3 PDG

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:39 PM

I'm with Ice Tea on this one. Warm and dry trumps every other consideration, and smocks are definitely warmer and drier.

#4 FromTheRail

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:38 PM

i've been using smocks for a while now, mainly Musto MPX offshore's but have recently bought Musto MPX Race smock (no hood, collar etc) and am going to be using that mainly.

If the weather gets bad indead of changing to a better smock i'm just going to put a jacket over the top, just need to find a jacket now that I like

#5 Icedtea

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:24 PM

Another bonus re smocks: The big ass pocket along the front is great for putting hats, snacks etc in, easy to get to when you need it and roomier than the pockets on a jacket

#6 MidPack

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:47 PM

I've always thought the downside of a smock is you can't regulate ventilation, it's either off or on. With a jacket, you can have it fully zipped up, part way, not at all or off - so you have more choices, and it's easier to take a jacket off an on. You might want it zipped up going to windward, and unzipped going downwind, I know I've done same many times. In conditions where being too warm isn't an issue, I'd think a smock would be preferable as it's less bulky.

#7 Mogle

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:31 PM

a smock is you can't regulate ventilation, it's either off or on. With a jacket, you can have it fully zipped up, part way, not at all or off - so you have more choices, and it's easier to take a jacket off an on.


I agree with you. I always en up with my Musto jackets due to better ventilation. Even though the Musto MPX smock is very comfortable. They could Improve to ventilation on the smock.

#8 mustang__1

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:46 AM

a standard jacket can be cumbersome on the foredeck, and there is nothing like green-water down your neck in the middle of the night as you're doing a peel. While i tend to wear a standard jacket offshore, there have been cases where i have used a standard dinghy smock because you can actually (mostly) close your neck off. I will never wear a standard jacket on a buoy race on the foredeck. The drytop's are definitely interesting. I have used drysuits pretty extensively and eventually the latex seal loosens up a little bit and, while i wouldnt say its comfortable, it does eventually become not-bothersome... no problem at all on the wrist seals. depends on the mfg of course.

#9 Boatfiend

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:05 AM

So with those points in mind:

>> Would it be worth owning a smock for day racing (say a dingy smock) and another for longer trips (a dry top by HH, HPX smock or something similar) or is a ocean smock comfortable enough for either conditions?

>> Also, if I were to purchase a dingy smock for day racing what is your opinion on latex v the standard seals featured on most smocks and jackets? Bearing in mind main sailing location is Sydney, Australia would latex seals be overkill or a wise decision?

>>>Further discussion/suggestions on the Smock vs Jacket debate is still greatly appreciated :) <<<

#10 Slim

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:16 AM

I would think about a shawl or coverlet if I was you.

#11 xyzzy

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:35 AM

If you have bibs that need to be unzipped from the top to pee then a smock makes that a real pain.

#12 micha571

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:49 AM

Have changed from jackets to a smock (Musto MPX) since last season. Really good, would not ever change back.

#13 auggie

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:59 AM

If you have bibs that need to be unzipped from the top to pee then a smock makes that a real pain.

Indeed. First, i'm probably an old fuck by bowman standards. but i gotta tell you it does pose probs when the zipper aint where u need it and your medication kicks kn around noon. That being said, if it's not really raining and the bow isnt really going under the water a smock UNDER your bibs works. Otherwise, bibs and jacket unless you're Jimmy Spitall or crew and can wear those cute little get-ups. Now, does anyone remember the foul weather "coveralls" of the 80's? Lightweight, colorfull.

#14 auggie

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:01 AM

By the way,Jimmy, do u boys just pee in your suits like the old days or do u have have a bottle on the boat?

#15 mr_ryano

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:10 PM

>Need gear recommendation

Bit of Background:
>Compete in around the cans offshore yacht races on the weekend
>More overnight racing passages to come with the possibility of Sydney to Hobart next year
>Mainly placed in bowman position

I currently own Musto MPX pants and Jacket but I am considering changing over to a smock.
Currently looking at either a dingy racing smock or a ocean smock (HPX, HH or otherwise).

Does it make much difference on the bow?
Would wearing an ocean smock on a passage be comfortable?
Are the latex seals comfortable enough to consider wearing for day racing or passages?
Any other suggestions?


OH and here are some newbie tits ( . )( . )


What's the boat type? If you're taking green water over the deck, the neck and wrist seals are must haves. Smocks are better than the jackets if you're going to be wet for long periods of time.

If you're in warm water, go find a short sleeved kayaking smock. I still have an old Patagonia one and it's the best piece of kit I own. Keeps the core dry, but without that plastic bag feeling

#16 PDG

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:08 PM


If you have bibs that need to be unzipped from the top to pee then a smock makes that a real pain.

Indeed. First, i'm probably an old fuck by bowman standards. but i gotta tell you it does pose probs when the zipper aint where u need it and your medication kicks kn around noon. That being said, if it's not really raining and the bow isnt really going under the water a smock UNDER your bibs works. Otherwise, bibs and jacket unless you're Jimmy Spitall or crew and can wear those cute little get-ups. Now, does anyone remember the foul weather "coveralls" of the 80's? Lightweight, colorfull.


Had one of those from back when Musto was Musto and Hyde. Slowed the water down a bit. Feeling old now, thanks!

As to the latex vs. folding seals: I can only speak about the latex ones. I have a Gill ocean racer smock with latex seals. I wear it buoy racing and distance/offshore. The latex seals need to be (carefully) trimmed, and they take some getting used to, but they work very well. Went sideways on a race a couple of weeks ago and wound up about chest deep in water briefly. Ankle and waist cinches were tight, and I was surprised to find myself basically dry at the end of it all. With a standard jacket, I'm certain my bibs would have been flooded.

#17 BalticBandit

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:39 AM

I race dinghies and bigger boats - albeit in the colder waters of Puget Sound. Whenever I was going to be doing bow, I went with a Smock (then Gill now Musto) except in the summer on a day it was NOT going to blow. Overnighters ALWAYS the smock with a layer underneath and if needed a jacket on top.

I'd rather be slightly warm than too cold.

#18 TheActualDave

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 07:05 AM

I wear a Musto Dinghy Smock for day / coastal - I'm in a warm climate - keeps my a bit dryer on hot days where there is spray.

Great on the bow / under a PFD but not warm (and no hood!)

 

I wear Musto MPX jacket overnight / cold or wet conditions. It's 'okay' on the bow, but bulky. 

 

Would love a hooded smock like the GILL OC1 think it would be good compromise. 



#19 bowgal98

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 07:56 PM

I usually do bow and always wear a Smock (Henri Lloyd Phoenix Smock - no collar or hood) when doing short leg buoy racing.  For longer offshores, I tend to wear a jacket which is easier to get in and out of, plus has the extra length.  I say always b/c I am in a climate where it is basically cold/chilly all the time on the water, whereas in Sydney I didn't mind a bit of spray on those nice warm days.

 

In the high intensity racing, a jacket is just way too restrictive for bow work and I like the freedom and dryness of a smock.

 

Dave- if you are looking for a hooded smock, have you looked at the Zhik Isotak Ocean offering?  I've heard good things about their gear.  Pricey....but might be a great piece of gear for the Hobart (but probably overkill for most of the Sydney offshores).

 

:sigh.....I miss Sydney SO much!!!



#20 DrewR

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 08:17 PM

I use both. The jacket mostly offshore and my smock for around the bouys mostly. I just ordered a new HL Shockwave with hood, which is the only thing I would add to my other HL smock sans hood. 

 

My Musto MPX jacket is a little bulky for the rail and cockpit so when I'm crewing it's usually the smock.  When I'm on my boat it's still usually the smock, but if it's really bad rain out or it's cold I'll go with the jacket when I;m behind the wheel.

 

Offshore it's almost always the jacket.

 

Cooling with the smock is a little less with the smock, but the increased mobility with the smock is worth it.



#21 FatimaRules

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 04:26 AM

Love my smocks! Mobile and dry for the sake of pulling it on over your head. We were all taught how to do that when we were, like, 2!

Dinghy one for just about everything that doesn't involve darkness, then I use Gill's KB1 which is great and cheap! Yeah! Both!

The rubber seal necks are only really needed for full bowman. I brave the occasional trip up front and are fine with the softer closures.

Don't go the smock then jacket over the top route, you'll be no longer breathable.

#22 Sarc

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 04:49 AM

I have a Musto HPX smock that's been bastardized by removing the color and hood. Best piece of kit I own.



#23 TheActualDave

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 02:59 AM

Just to re-iterate, passage / offshore bow a smock is not *that* much better. But around the cans it is. 



#24 haligonian winterr

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 05:00 AM

I would have to respectfully disagree here, but it's all about opinions. I do bow on /very/ wet boats with drivers that like to put bow teams through waves... So I really love the smock offshore, especially when worn underneath a regular offshore jacket (MPX under OC1) when it's nippy out.

 

HW

 

Just to re-iterate, passage / offshore bow a smock is not *that* much better. But around the cans it is. 



#25 pdtbaker

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:54 AM

Just to re-iterate, passage / offshore bow a smock is not *that* much better. But around the cans it is. 

 

i would also have to disagree. get a monster wave over the bow and a jacket isn't going to do you any good at all

 

i'm with zhik isotak ocean gear now, smock and trousers. best gear i've ever had, even better than hpx   :o

 

-p.



#26 DrewR

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 12:02 PM

Just to re-iterate, passage / offshore bow a smock is not *that* much better. But around the cans it is. 

 

i would also have to disagree. get a monster wave over the bow and a jacket isn't going to do you any good at all

 

i'm with zhik isotak ocean gear now, smock and trousers. best gear i've ever had, even better than hpx   :o

 

-p.

 

I don't know, I think my MPX jacket with the hood on and the collar snugged tight will be nearly as good or better than my smock for keeping shedding water and keeping me dry. And it's a damn site warmer.  I use both, but offshore, my smock usually stays in my bag. Maybe my new unused Shockwave will change my mind but I doubt it. Looks like a great piece of gear tho. 



#27 Rail Meat

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 01:25 PM


Just to re-iterate, passage / offshore bow a smock is not *that* much better. But around the cans it is. 

 
i would also have to disagree. get a monster wave over the bow and a jacket isn't going to do you any good at all
 
i'm with zhik isotak ocean gear now, smock and trousers. best gear i've ever had, even better than hpx   :o
 
-p.
 
I don't know, I think my MPX jacket with the hood on and the collar snugged tight will be nearly as good or better than my smock for keeping shedding water and keeping me dry. And it's a damn site warmer.  I use both, but offshore, my smock usually stays in my bag. Maybe my new unused Shockwave will change my mind but I doubt it. Looks like a great piece of gear tho. 

There is a reason why the VO65, IMOCA, and other offshore and really wet boats wear offshore smocks and it's not because a snugged up collar and hood is going to prevent that full facial wave from getting down your jacket. I use an HPX Ocean Series jacket a lot, and it is great. But for offshore when I know it is going to be gnarly, then the HPX Ocean Pro Series, both smock and bibs, is the only way to go (other than a dry suit). And the Pro Series bibs have knee pads built into the bibs....winning.

#28 Raz'r

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 04:09 PM

i'm surprised this is even a conversation. It's amazing how tradition bound we are. Front of the boat is a smock.  Maybe you need the jacket if it's nasty.  Hell, I even use the smock on the back of the boat most of the time. Getting rid of that bulk was liberating.



#29 Soapbox

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 05:25 PM

I used to wear a smock, and still own one, but find myself wearing the MPX offshore race jacket. Its light and less bulky than normal offshore jackets, yet it has the benefits of easy on/off, pockets and ventilation control. Smocks look cool though, and perfect for bow. anything else, jacket will do it.



#30 Raked aft \\

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 02:47 AM

how about the Ocean rodeo soul drysuit.  looks tight and versatile.

 

zip-sequence.gif



#31 Raz'r

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 04:03 AM

Looks good

#32 Oscar Whitbread

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 04:44 AM

For offshore work I just bought a dinghy smock to wear under my MPX jacket. I found this to be a good combo, if a sail change was needed or some heavy work was involved I'd just lose the jacket leaving me free to move and not overheat but stay dry. When it was time to spend some hours on the rail not doing much it was nice to be able to hide inside the jacket to stay warm, didn't matter if any greenies went inside the hood of the jacket as the smock would keep it out. I'd just vary the amount of thermal layers under the smock to match the weather.



#33 NoStrings

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:06 PM

I wear a Stohlquist paddling smock in gore-tex. Its so much drier, i don't have to wear as many layers to stay warm. It was also a hell of a lot cheaper, and better made than most sailing gear. The shoulders are also designed for full overhead movement without the hem trying to ride up. When matched with the pants they become a 2 piece dry suit. Its the cats ass.

#34 Next Level

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 08:05 AM

Anyone used the new Zhik gear recently? In particular the ocean smock and bibs? The gear looks really nice and comparable to Musto HPX by all accounts. I saw a few crews in the S2H were wearing the new Zhik gear and I'd be interested to see how it faired.

 

Next Level.



#35 haligonian winterr

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 08:57 AM

Team AUS was kitted in it last time I saw them running their big tri...

 

I've always looked at the pros, to see what they're wearing when I can't do the research myself (Arcteryx/Musto), unfortunately the only first hand Zhik info I have is from a Rep, so slightly biased...

 

HW



#36 FatimaRules

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 12:23 AM

Ahh if only arcteryx did sailing gear!!!!

#37 USA190520

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 04:23 AM

Just bought zhik kit- so far I like it-
I have full sets of zhik, mpx, hl tp2, gull code zero and some other random kit-

Mpx offshore smock goes offshore w me no matter what-
So far the zhik feels and performs as well as the mpx kit
Wish there were chest pockets in the sallopettes and a tunnel pocket in the smock but such is life

#38 Sarc

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 04:36 AM

Just bought zhik kit- so far I like it-
I have full sets of zhik, mpx, hl tp2, gull code zero and some other random kit-

Mpx offshore smock goes offshore w me no matter what-
So far the zhik feels and performs as well as the mpx kit
Wish there were chest pockets in the sallopettes and a tunnel pocket in the smock but such is life


Not sure if you're talking about the Isotak or isotak ocean?

#39 USA190520

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 08:58 AM

Isotak- sry, can't vouch for isotak ocean

#40 haligonian winterr

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 09:05 AM

What does the Zhik have for seal options? I'll never go back from my latex/drysuit seals...

 

HW
 

Just bought zhik kit- so far I like it-
I have full sets of zhik, mpx, hl tp2, gull code zero and some other random kit-

Mpx offshore smock goes offshore w me no matter what-
So far the zhik feels and performs as well as the mpx kit
Wish there were chest pockets in the sallopettes and a tunnel pocket in the smock but such is life



#41 USA190520

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 01:51 PM

PU seals all around, not as dry as latex but way better than most.

I spent hours in pouring rain and was comfortable to cover my head and catch a lie down between races in a downpour...
They offer latex neck and wrists as well.





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