39 replies to this topic

[arbor_ring]

A friend of mine is looking to buy a Cherubini 33' boat for < $30,000 USD for Cruising around the Chesapeake. They asked me for my opinion but I have no idea what to tell him since I know little about cruiser boats. So I'm hoping someone can help me look smart and tell me if the following features sound good? I'm trying to impress them with my knowledge. Which features below sound good for a 33' boat with the purpose to have weekend trips out on the Chesapeake?


Dimensions
LOA: 33 ft 0 in
Beam: 10 ft 7 in
LWL: 27 ft 0 in
Maximum Draft: 4 ft 6 in
Displacement: 9300 lbs
Ballast: 4100 lbs

Engines
Engine Brand: Yanmar
Engine(s) Total Power: 15 HP
Engine Model: 2GM15

Tanks
Fresh Water Tanks: 30 (1 Gallons)
Fuel Tanks: 12 (1 Gallons)

Accommodations
Number of heads: 1


Dimensions
Ballast: 4100
Displacement: 9300

Engines
Total Power: 15

Tanks
Fuel: 12
Fresh Water: 30

Accomodations
V berth forward with filler. Next aft is head to port and storage and hanging locker to starboard. The main salon has straight settees port and starboard with shelves and cabinets outboard. The port settee pulls out to make a double berth. She has a bulkhead mounted table that folds out for dining on both sides. The L shaped galley is port side at the base of the companionway. To starboard is the nav station with quarterberth aft. All cushions have been recovered in blue durable fabric. Countertops in galley have been upgraded to corian. Weems and Plath yacht lamp.

• 2 burner Force 10 CNG stove
• Corian countertops
• Ice box with teak grate - top opening
• S/S sink
• Pressure cold water
• Plenty of counter and cabinet space

Electronics

• Gemini 4 compass
• Datamarine depthsounder
• Datamarine Speed
• Standard Horizon VHF
• Sea Worthy Stereo AM/FM/CD w/spkrs
• Raymarine Autopilot in new pedestal pod (2009)
• Raymarine 2KW Radar (2009)
• Raymarine C-70 Chartplotter w/East Coast card (2009)

Electrical and Mechanical

• 3 Group 24 Batteries (New 2010)
• Quest 10 amp battery charger
• 110V shore power w/30 amp cord
• Attwood anchor w/6' chain and 150' rode
• 2 fire extinguishers
• Automatic bilge pump
• Manual head w/holding tank
• 110 volt GFI's
• New 110/12 volt electrical panel
• Keel bolts replaced - S/S
• Compressed gas w/new gas control valves and shut off
• Yanmar 2GM15 -fully serviced in 2009 w/new injectors, filters, impeller, etc

Sails and Rigging

• Dacron Mainsail
• 150% Genoa on Roller Furler
• 110% Jib
• Bimini and Dodger (refurbished 2010)
• Mainsail cover
• Jib and Main Halyards replaced 2009
• Manual boom vang
• 2 Barlow ST #27 primaries
• 2 Lewmar secondary winches
• 2 Barbarosa winches on cabintop

Hull & Deck

• Teak cockpit seats
• Teak cockpit grate
• 4 vinyl covered cockpit cushions
• 2 Bomar hatches replaced
• New dock lines (2009)
• S/S swim ladder
• Spreader and nav lights
• Refurbished masthead & anchor lighting
• Fenders & lifejackets
• S/S bow and stern pulpits
• Pedestal wheel steering
• Misc. CG Safety equipment

Additional

• 5 gallon spare diesel fuel tank
• 2 - 120 volt portable fans
• Misc cleaning equipment
• Horseshoe life ring
• CO2 detector and smoke detector
• Keel bolts have been replaced in the last 7 - 8 years

[SpongeDeckSquareFoil]

Do I detect some breasts that need to be exposed?

[Soñadora]

Hey guys, look! A GIRL!

Oh, and that's actually a Hunter designed by Cherubini.

Or Raider

Edit: ok, you're talking about this one...

http://www.yachtworl...g_id=79026&url=

Looks like a nice boat. How good are you at making french toast?

[Ishmael]

Raw water cooled engine, so no water heater, and it's a little underpowered. Apart from that, it looks decent.



We let Courtney K in without the traditional tariff, I don't want a string of fully-clothed newbies to start taking advantage.

This is the kinder, gentler side of SA, but we still need to see some breasts. Thanks in advance.

This is what Sons is referring to, please note that you do not need a water heater to do this:

[floating dutchman]

Arbor, You seem like a nice girl who want's to get into sailing, so against my normal character I'll be nice.

DO NOT impress anyone with stuff you learned from the web, You WILL trip your self up and look like a twit.

Good Boat owners / skippers can smell a mile off who can talk the talk but can't walk the walk. Good skippers / boat owners want experanced crew. They also know that not every one of their crew will be rockstars. If you want to learn and can learn and don't bullshit the good skippers / boat owners will want you as crew and they will also want to train you.
A crew member who knows nothing but learns is more valuable than a rockstar who turns up when he feels like it.

Bump and Grind offererd you a crew spot a while back, All I know about him is what I have read here. You were silly not to take him up for a sail.

Folk that bullshit and tell skippers that they can do tasks they are not up too get's gear broken and people hurt.

If you want respect in the sailing world, be honest.
I spent over an hour this evening cleaning up chunder an nursing my 6 yo seasick boy. ( beer can racing a 4knt shit box ) Having crew who I knew their abilities was golden, I could leave the boat to them at times a just look after my son, when I felt I should take control of the boat myself I took over again. Life is easy when I know what the crew can and can not do.

If you want to Impress the strapping young fella wanting to buy this boat, Increase the "head" count. (maybe I've run out of being nice about now)
O.K. the last bit was out of line, But this is Anarchy so I'm not deleting it.

Generally speaking, If a fella asks a lass what she think about a boat he is asking about the things a bloke usually looks over, "are the bunks good, can the galley be cooked in, are the curtians any good".
Like I said "generally speaking"
He's thinking along the lines of "a girl will never lay down in a boat she cannot stand up in".

How are your french toast cooking skills?

[arbor_ring]

It's a Cherubini Raider. Besides the lack of a water heater, I was hoping for a reputation guide or a blue book guide for sail boats. What is the quality, resale value for this model. Is it like a Toyota or a Saturn in terms of durability and life. I have not made French toast in years and I don't look like that woman in the video. Well off to work.

[4knotSB]

Someone here will say get a survey. The thread will progress to specific surveyors. You have to wonder why the owner put all that money into an old boat 2 years ago and now wants to bail.

[Jim in Halifax]

I have a Cherubini-designed Hunter. After 11 years of owning and sailing her on numerous coastal cruises from Quebec down to Maine in all sorts of weather, I can state that she is a good boat for me. The design is brilliant for a cruising boat of that era. The build quality is solid. Like most builders aiming for "affordable", Hunter cut corners in places, while trying to keep quality where it counts. Here is my partial list of pluses and minuses:
+ solid fiberglass hull, heavily laid up, no history of blister problems. Lead keel.
+ Strong inward flange hull to deck joint.
- spade rudder (Foss Foam) can require attention, especially if grounding occurs.
+ Perko bronze through hulls.
- originally fitted with nasty gate valves on thru-hulls.
+/- decks cored with marine ply - a lot are soggy by now.
- nasty Grey plastic port lights.
+ top of the line Bomar cast hatches.
+ Kenyon "cruising line" spars.
+ Good quality hardware - Merriman, Barient, Schaefer, Edson, Wilcox Crittenden, etc.
+/- bonded in hull liner and f/g overhead
+ good sea-going interior layout (in marked contrast to new Hunters)
+ excellent support group over at HunterOwners.com
+ Doesn't look like a (modern) Hunter
The price you quoted seems a bit high. Your friends need a good surveyor. These old boats can require a lot of work if they have not been well maintained.

EDIT: I just saw that you posted it was a Raider. I know nothing of the build quality of those boats. Might be better than the Hunter? The design was great, like all of JC's work back then.

[bmiller]

Nice looking boat for <20K.

I found this written, apparently, by one of the Cherubini clan:
http://forums.oday.s...ead.php?p=55883
Note you need to scroll up a bit the link goes to the last entry and I don't know how to fix that.

[Soñadora]

Nice looking boat for <20K.

I found this written, apparently, by one of the Cherubini clan:
http://forums.oday.s...ead.php?p=55883
Note you need to scroll up a bit the link goes to the last entry and I don't know how to fix that.

or you could just quote John Cherubini. I wonder if he had an orgasm after writing this. Sheesh...

Sam and Terry, thanks for a really COOL question! I've been sort of waiting for this one. Raider Yacht was founded in about 1976-77 by my uncle Joe and his two sons Peter and Brian. They are completely unaffiliated with Hunter or Cherubini Boat (except that through my dad's influence vendors like Lewmar, Kenyon, and Schaeffer all gave the same-tier parts discounts to all three!). There is a very good write-up on Raider in Ferenc Maté's book 'Best Boats to Build or Buy' (Norton, 1980-ish). The name came from Peter and Brian's favourite football team. The company colours were gold, silver, and black and the logo was a Jolly Roger. The boats were gorgeous, built by the family's most infamous neatniks– the joinery inside was superb. It was because of the incredible attention to detail that not many were made and they did not sell fast or easily. Their sailing performance is entirely another story! I have NO doubt that between equally stock Hunter 33s and Raider 33s the Raider would outrun the Hunter on every point of sail. It must be considered that the Hunter 33 is no slouch– it was one of my dad's favourites and there are still members of the family who would clamour after one if it came up for sale. But the Raider was just blinding. There is a picture in Maté's book of one flying a radial spinnaker on a beam reach heeled over to the rail doing about 9 knots in weather that would reef lesser boats into rags. I would like to think that the Raider was my dad's idea of a Hunter 33 done one better. Close comparison to the two boats' plans will ultimately confirm this. But what is certain is that it was a boat drawn by him with absolutely NO restraints by marketing or accounting. The Raider was only 27 ft on the water, which at least one dealer considered a drawback because it limited interior room. The bow was steeply raked, and out of the mould it was, as Maté reported, as sharp as a razorblade– probably a 1/16-inch radius. (Peter is/was probably one of the best fibreglass mould workers in the country. That's worth about 8 bucks an hour.) But we all know that waterline length has a direct correspondent in displacement. The Raider's lines are so typical of my dad– incredibly fine underwater, 10,400 lbs fully dressed under 455 ft of sail. As with so many of them this incredible lightness of being resulted in dizzying heel angle, but, also typically, once heeled that was the end of it. Antigone (1978) was the ultimate physical incarnation of the Raider 33 (there are others in the plans which will further blow you away). The custom layout contributed to a full 1000 lbs weight savings. The engine was set directly over the aft end of the keel for weight distribution. There was no vee berth, only a toilet and sail room. The interior was like the Hunter 25 but with two quarter berths. Originally it had a tiller but we put in an Edson pedestal with a 40-inch wheel geared so tightly that lock-to-lock was like 2-1/2 turns– it steered like a Formula One car. The Kevlar mainsheet went through 6:1 Haarken ball-bearing blocks, one end cleating on the traveller car and the other on the cabintop at the winch. The keel on Antigone was the 6-ft deep version, a slightly tapered quadrilateral, and the rudder had a small skeg but later a full spade rudder was developed. Four days before race season in 1979 we added a fibreglass 'cuff' on the aft edge of the keel making it more vertical. The result was a little more stiffness and I guess a tighter point to windward (less 'burble' aft of the keel). In a race you sat with the coaming under your knees and played the mainsheet like you were racing a 470. Everyone else held on for dear life. It was like racing a Jag XK-120 on skinny period tyres in the rain without seat belts. We piled up quite a collection of silver-plate 'hardware' with that boat and lined the beams in the rec room with first-to-finish and first-in-class pennants. We rarely came home with worse than third. Antigone and several other Raiders raced in the Northeast were responsible for lowering the PHRF on the type from the 170s in 1977 to about 154 in 1978 to 145 in 1979. I don't know of anyone who raced one who ever complained about it. They all knew they had got a winner and you don't complain about temperament in a winning race horse. The 33-ft size was a favourite of my dad's and I have been recently talking to my cousin Mike (CherubiniModels.com) about making the Raider's forerunner, a 33-ft double-chine plywood daggerboard day racer, what we called the River Rat, available as a 1" = 1 ft scale sailing model. More on that as it develops. J Cherubini II Cherubini Art & Nautical Design Org. JComet@aol.com

[Jim in Halifax]

Nice looking boat for <20K.

I found this written, apparently, by one of the Cherubini clan:
http://forums.oday.s...ead.php?p=55883
Note you need to scroll up a bit the link goes to the last entry and I don't know how to fix that.

The Cherubini writing in the links is John Cherubini II, son of the designer John Cherubini who passed away in 1983. He would have been late teens/early 20s at the time of the Raider's launch. Interesting how the youthful enthusiasm still shines through his words. The Cherubini family have a long history in boat design and building in the New Jersey area. They still build high-end boats under the name Cherubini Yachts (or at least they did pre-Sandy; hope they survived the storm).

[Soñadora]

I think a Cherubini is the first sailboat I ever saw...or noticed anyway. There was a big clipper-bow'd schooner or ketch sitting along the quay at a marina in Houston back in the early 80s. Took a picture of it. Eventually came across one in a magazine and compared it to the picture. The 48'er is a beauty.

[kevlar®]

. They still build high-end boats under the name Cherubini Yachts (or at least they did pre-Sandy; hope they survived the storm).

Cherubini Yachts in Delran NJ made out fine.

French Toast is tasty.

[Soñadora]

I have not made French toast in years and I don't look like that woman in the video. Well off to work.

I think there's quite a bit of leeway with this crowd when it comes to how you look making French Toast.

[hobot]

Will there be bacon and coffee served with the French Toast?

[Soñadora]

not sure about bacon, but definitely sausage...

hommina hommina hommina!

[arbor_ring]

In response to the requests above, I'm officially banning myself from this forum until further notice.

[kdh]

In response to the requests above, I'm officially banning myself from this forum until further notice.

You guys have scared away a girl. We should be ashamed of ourselves.

She is into horseback riding like Courtney and my Ann and Adele.

Maybe arbor will rise to the challenge we present here. We can only hope.

[SpongeDeckSquareFoil]

I just took it that she can't cook. Or doesn't like french toast.

[Trickypig]

In response to the requests above, I'm officially banning myself from this forum until further notice.

`Banning oneself'? ...That implies you want to be here

It's alright you can come back now.

[rattus32]

In response to the requests above, I'm officially banning myself from this forum until further notice.

`Banning oneself'? ...That implies you want to be here

It's alright you can come back now.

It's kind of like self-deportation.

[Soñadora]

We need Courtney to come in here and straighten this whole thing out. She knows how to handle a bunch of immature sailors.

[bljones]

You mean use us and keep us in the dark?

[4knotSB]

Face it, we LIKE being used.

[Soñadora]

yeah, we're like the Volvo MD11 of teh internets.

[Beau.Vrolyk]

Guys, I'm afraid Arbor_Ring has a point.... my daughter probably would have responded in the same way, if she bothered looking in on us at all.

BV

[Ishmael]

After the first post in GA from Arbor_Ring, I had a strong suspicion he/she/it was a trollpuppet, so I kicked off the welcome in fine style. I thought I was rather reserved in the circumstances. Don't get your knickers in a knot yet, Beau.
If she unbans herself and proves herself to be a real human bean of the softer sex then I will grovel my apologies.

[Soñadora]

ok, I did something I rarely ever do. I went back and read through this thread. Where was the offense? The French Toast reference? Really?

excepting that, it looks to me that she received a TON of fantastic information specifically answering her question. A lot of us here have been combing the nether regions of the internet for all things sailing. With the thousands of websites out there having to do with sailing, CA is the definitive source in my book. Nowhere else can you ask about some obscure sailing thing and get an answer within hours from someone who has years of experience with it. If she cannot find value in that and look past a little ribbing, then I guess she's not all that serious about getting good information.

edit: and of course, Ish is spot on. We're a bit gun-shy around here when it comes to socks. If she is a real person and is new, she may not get it but if she's serious she'll give a little more consideration of the culture (or lack of) around here

[Bob Perry]

Rick:
I made one of those late night, too much wine borderline nasty posts too. But I got up at 4:30am and deleted it.

[Brodie]

Well, I'm a girl (really) and I find most everything here informative and/or hilarious. If it isn't, I just ignore it. I'm not going to waste my own time getting wound up about a bunch of guys being guys. Honestly most of the time I'd rather hang with the guys anyway.

[SpongeDeckSquareFoil]

So, Brodie, any pics that might verify this?

And Bob, your deleted post was opinionated, but couldn't be said to be offensive to first poster.

[Jim in Halifax]

So, Brodie, any pics that might verify this?

And Bob, your deleted post was opinionated, but couldn't be said to be offensive to first poster.

..or other posters, even those who are Cherubini fans. Opinion is the currency here. However, sailors of the fairer sex who are too young to remember the positive aspects of male chauvinism probably need to be eased into the tits thing; maybe they could defer until the 5th post?

[Soñadora]

So, Brodie, any pics that might verify this?
.

yeah, because usually we can tell who's a girl and who isn't.

[kdh]

It's been well established that Brodie is a girl. I like girls. I think we should be nice to them.

[Soñadora]

Honestly, I didn't know. Never crossed my mind. She knows a lot about sailing, has good things to say, and has a pretty boat. What else matters?

[dacapo]

you all should be ashamed of yourselves............. I would expect this in S.A. forum probably in G.A forum and maybe in PA forum... but NOT here in the cruisers Forum.....

[Brodie]

Trust me, you don't want to see mine. They are very underwhelming to say the least. I didn't get that gene.

Plus, then it's only fair for me to ask to see some manly parts from all of you...hehe...

Wow, now we're REALLY off topic!

[dacapo]

Trust me, you don't want to see mine. They are very underwhelming to say the least. I didn't get that gene.

there's no such thing as bad pizza.....

[Ishmael]

you all should be ashamed of yourselves............. I would expect this in S.A. forum probably in G.A forum and maybe in PA forum... but NOT here in the cruisers Forum.....

Yes, we scared her away. From a thread in SA, it looks like she really does exist, and has been out sailing.



Well, Ms Ring, abject apologies for all our boorish behaviour. You will have to develop a much thicker skin to prosper here, however.

Here's some insight.





































Now getemout.

[floating dutchman]

Yep, she went out with bump and grind after all, Bumb and grind posted back comfurming this and invited her back for another sail.

Good on her.