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Pogo 10.50


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#1 LI_sailor

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:00 PM

Does this boat have a brutal IRC / PHRF rating?

Just looking at boats in that size and think it would be a freaking blast. But can you race it around the buoys without the rating killing you? Or does anyone own one and want to comment?

thanks!

#2 Murphness

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:36 PM

Does this boat have a brutal IRC / PHRF rating?

Just looking at boats in that size and think it would be a freaking blast. But can you race it around the buoys without the rating killing you? Or does anyone own one and want to comment?

thanks!


Doubt there are any in the states yet, but I cold be wrong.This boat is prob the best compromise of cruiser racer I've seen... wife would love it and it still planes...

There could be an EU irc rating you could try and convert to PHRF. I'd guess most boats are in France still, not sure how many are even finished...

Cheers,

Murphness

#3 Ryley

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:46 PM

Murph, I looked all morning and couldn't find a rating. Very cool looking boat though. I can't imagine it'd be a good buoy racer, but it'd probably own marblehead to halifax

#4 Murphness

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:24 PM

Yea, I've been following both the 10.5 and its bigger sister for a couple years now. #1 choice of boat for me if I had the dough.

Ocean going and comfortable at the dock/weekending. Would be a decent buoy racer if you had all the right furlers in place, but who cares about buoy racing results that isn't one design? The Cone has shaped my handicap opinion from let's optimize and kick ass to, who the fuck cares as long as were on a plane and having a blast... One Design for serious buoy racing and fast and fun for distance racing! The beer can shit is just what its name implies!

Can't say I hate pitting Tank against Rockit , though!

#5 micha571

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:03 PM

At orc.org you can download all ORC-rating certificates. There I found one ORC-certificate for a Pogo 10.50, see attachment.
But I can't say if she sails to that rating or not.

Attached Files



#6 Bulbhunter

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:41 PM

Pogo 10.5 is at the top of my list also. In a couple of years when we aren't spending a boat payment on daycare wife and I might fly to Croatia do a little cruising - check out a few boats and maybe ship one home. The other one that has my eye is the Elan 310 and 350 - though I think the 350 is too large for what the wife and I are thinking. The swing keel on the Pogo is attractive for delta trips - and thin water marinas too. Which would be a nice thing.

#7 Murphness

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

http://www.fastsaili....asp?catid=4287

Try both out for a decent price in Greece. Not sure about the 2000.00 Euro cash deposit though...Don't think I'd want to fork over a bunch of cash to sit in escrow in a Greek bank account at the moment. Maybe you can argue for a CC retainer instead?

Anyone have experience with this charter group?

#8 Sebyseb

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:29 PM

Around 1.120 under IRC and they very rarely sail to their rating, impossible on W/L.
In fact the owners who thought they could race them successfully are selling them now.
We raced against one in the Tour de Belle-Ile and it was rather sticky in the light, despite the massive spinny.

#9 Bulbhunter

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:31 PM

Around 1.120 under IRC and they very rarely sail to their rating, impossible on W/L.
In fact the owners who thought they could race them successfully are selling them now.
We raced against one in the Tour de Belle-Ile and it was rather sticky in the light, despite the massive spinny.


All the better for me - cheaper and more on the used market LOL.

Around the cans I'll just race on a OD boat - having a fun fast -short handed boat for low key pursuit races the 10.5 would work just fine.

#10 Murphness

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:38 PM

Around 1.120 under IRC and they very rarely sail to their rating, impossible on W/L.
In fact the owners who thought they could race them successfully are selling them now.
We raced against one in the Tour de Belle-Ile and it was rather sticky in the light, despite the massive spinny.


Great info!

Rough conversion using PHRF = (650/IRC) - 557 gives a PHRF rating of ~23. That seems pretty decent given what the boat can do...

For reference a class 40 rates 2 in PHRF NB and the 12.5 is based on the Finot Class 40 hull.

#11 Murphness

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:41 PM

Around 1.120 under IRC and they very rarely sail to their rating, impossible on W/L.
In fact the owners who thought they could race them successfully are selling them now.
We raced against one in the Tour de Belle-Ile and it was rather sticky in the light, despite the massive spinny.


Is that for the 10.5 or 12.5? Might be a bit tough for the 10.5 to sail to PHRF 23. The Cone of Silence rates PHRF 26 at 30 feet and it's almost impossible to sail to...

#12 Bulbhunter

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:51 PM

Antrim class 40 California Condor USA 94 Antrim Class 40 RYC -66 PHRF A Thurs
Not sure if they use this similar rating inside the SF Bay but they do very well in mixed PHRF racing.
I don't really see the Pogo being all that different regarding PHRF capability

#13 Sebyseb

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:57 PM

That's for the 10.50. Some at 1.095... To be fair it was never designed for IRC.
I think one 10.50 owner got a JPK 38 FC instead in order to do some IRC racing and Fast Cruising

#14 Sebyseb

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:06 PM


Around 1.120 under IRC and they very rarely sail to their rating, impossible on W/L.
In fact the owners who thought they could race them successfully are selling them now.
We raced against one in the Tour de Belle-Ile and it was rather sticky in the light, despite the massive spinny.


Is that for the 10.5 or 12.5? Might be a bit tough for the 10.5 to sail to PHRF 23. The Cone of Silence rates PHRF 26 at 30 feet and it's almost impossible to sail to...


10.50...
1.095 trial cert, most are above
http://www.assopogo....ogo10.50GTE.pdf

#15 Murphness

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:17 AM



Around 1.120 under IRC and they very rarely sail to their rating, impossible on W/L.
In fact the owners who thought they could race them successfully are selling them now.
We raced against one in the Tour de Belle-Ile and it was rather sticky in the light, despite the massive spinny.


Is that for the 10.5 or 12.5? Might be a bit tough for the 10.5 to sail to PHRF 23. The Cone of Silence rates PHRF 26 at 30 feet and it's almost impossible to sail to...


10.50...
1.095 trial cert, most are above
http://www.assopogo....ogo10.50GTE.pdf


PHRF ~36 doesn't seem terrible...You'd need planing or at least semi displacement conditions to sail to that though...

#16 LI_sailor

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:57 PM

I wish they could take this concept of a boat and make it a little more IRC friendly; would be totally awesome.

#17 LeoV

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:32 PM

Then check the JPK boats.

#18 FastButNotFurious

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:22 AM

http://www.fastsaili....asp?catid=4287 Try both out for a decent price in Greece. Not sure about the 2000.00 Euro cash deposit though...Don't think I'd want to fork over a bunch of cash to sit in escrow in a Greek bank account at the moment. Maybe you can argue for a CC retainer instead? Anyone have experience with this charter group?


If I may, in those days it is certainly risky to leave 2000euros for a week in the hands of a greek (or even worse in his bank). But there are certainly some other solutions. A check which is not cashed unless there's damage could work. Or maybe we should think of opening a bank account in Jersey/Guernsey/Lichtenstein...
Just joking, many thanks for mentioning our presence. If you ever come over, I 'll have a nice little gift for you. (I hope this stupid Homeric verse about "greeks bearing gifts" will not frighten you though...)

Around 1.120 under IRC and they very rarely sail to their rating, impossible on W/L. In fact the owners who thought they could race them successfully are selling them now. We raced against one in the Tour de Belle-Ile and it was rather sticky in the light, despite the massive spinny.


It is indeed very difficult to sail those boats to their rating, simply because they consider you have sail power that you do not actually have. Just two examples:
1. the boom is considered horizontal starting from the "goose neck". In those boats the boom is fixed close to the deck at the mast and has an angle of ~10o. So they are considered to have a considerable triangular area at the foot of the main sail that they do not actually have.
2. Same thing for the roached main sail at their head. The measurement simply projects the hypotenuse (leech eh?) until it reaches the extension of the mast. So this adds up again sail area that is not actually available.

In the last race we did on our Pogo12.50 HERMES from Piraeus to Hydra we had a 35 mile totally upwind run. We were 2nd in real time and the 1st was a much bigger 49ft boat. In "compensated" time we were 12th and we were lacking 3hrs to beat the 1st who finished 2hrs later than us. This meant in order to beat them in "compensated" time should have sailed the boat >60% faster! Obviously there is something wrong there.... By the way, on the way back from Hydra to Piraeus we had 25-35kts @~130o, and HERMES really put his wings on to fly us with up to 24.83kts! Have a look at the 2nd video here
http://www.fastsaili....asp?catid=4312

Yea, I've been following both the 10.5 and its bigger sister for a couple years now. #1 choice of boat for me if I had the dough. Ocean going and comfortable at the dock/weekending. Would be a decent buoy racer if you had all the right furlers in place, but who cares about buoy racing results that isn't one design? The Cone has shaped my handicap opinion from let's optimize and kick ass to, who the fuck cares as long as were on a plane and having a blast... One Design for serious buoy racing and fast and fun for distance racing! The beer can shit is just what its name implies! Can't say I hate pitting Tank against Rockit , though!


I totally agree. I would just like to add that cruising fast and fun on a plane with friends is really important too!

Cheers

#19 Murphness

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

http://www.fastsaili....asp?catid=4287 Try both out for a decent price in Greece. Not sure about the 2000.00 Euro cash deposit though...Don't think I'd want to fork over a bunch of cash to sit in escrow in a Greek bank account at the moment. Maybe you can argue for a CC retainer instead? Anyone have experience with this charter group?


If I may, in those days it is certainly risky to leave 2000euros for a week in the hands of a greek (or even worse in his bank). But there are certainly some other solutions. A check which is not cashed unless there's damage could work. Or maybe we should think of opening a bank account in Jersey/Guernsey/Lichtenstein...
Just joking, many thanks for mentioning our presence. If you ever come over, I 'll have a nice little gift for you. (I hope this stupid Homeric verse about "greeks bearing gifts" will not frighten you though...)

Around 1.120 under IRC and they very rarely sail to their rating, impossible on W/L. In fact the owners who thought they could race them successfully are selling them now. We raced against one in the Tour de Belle-Ile and it was rather sticky in the light, despite the massive spinny.


It is indeed very difficult to sail those boats to their rating, simply because they consider you have sail power that you do not actually have. Just two examples:
1. the boom is considered horizontal starting from the "goose neck". In those boats the boom is fixed close to the deck at the mast and has an angle of ~10o. So they are considered to have a considerable triangular area at the foot of the main sail that they do not actually have.
2. Same thing for the roached main sail at their head. The measurement simply projects the hypotenuse (leech eh?) until it reaches the extension of the mast. So this adds up again sail area that is not actually available.

In the last race we did on our Pogo12.50 HERMES from Piraeus to Hydra we had a 35 mile totally upwind run. We were 2nd in real time and the 1st was a much bigger 49ft boat. In "compensated" time we were 12th and we were lacking 3hrs to beat the 1st who finished 2hrs later than us. This meant in order to beat them in "compensated" time should have sailed the boat >60% faster! Obviously there is something wrong there.... By the way, on the way back from Hydra to Piraeus we had 25-35kts @~130o, and HERMES really put his wings on to fly us with up to 24.83kts! Have a look at the 2nd video here
http://www.fastsaili....asp?catid=4312

Yea, I've been following both the 10.5 and its bigger sister for a couple years now. #1 choice of boat for me if I had the dough. Ocean going and comfortable at the dock/weekending. Would be a decent buoy racer if you had all the right furlers in place, but who cares about buoy racing results that isn't one design? The Cone has shaped my handicap opinion from let's optimize and kick ass to, who the fuck cares as long as were on a plane and having a blast... One Design for serious buoy racing and fast and fun for distance racing! The beer can shit is just what its name implies! Can't say I hate pitting Tank against Rockit , though!


I totally agree. I would just like to add that cruising fast and fun on a plane with friends is really important too!

Cheers


Thanks for the reply, Fast. Your charter company is a great way to try out this awesome boat and maybe we'll meet in 2014! Hopefully you wont take my comments about the cash deposit personally :ph34r:...

Is there any racing from November to March where you are? A short distance race would be fun in the middle of a charter vacation...

Really love these boats! Thanks for the info!

Cheers,

Murphness

#20 FastButNotFurious

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:31 PM

Thanks for the reply, Fast. Your charter company is a great way to try out this awesome boat and maybe we'll meet in 2014! Hopefully you wont take my comments about the cash deposit personally :ph34r:...

Is there any racing from November to March where you are? A short distance race would be fun in the middle of a charter vacation...

Really love these boats! Thanks for the info!

Cheers,

Murphness


No offense Murphness, it is nice to joke about these things, makes life easier!

About races from November to March there are 10 one-day races ranging from 8 to 35miles and 1 week-end race 2x35 miles. All of them are during the week-ends. The period without any races is from mid-December until mid February.
The entire racing calendar is found here:
http://www.offshore....hedule_2012.xml
At the top of the page you see 10 tabs corresponding to the geographic divisions. Click the lower right one where it says "Σαρωνικoς". This is for the Saronic gulf, its near Athens and it is the only division that has races also during the winter.

PS: I apologize on behalf of our honorable Off-Shore Racing Committee, that the race calendar is only in Greek. If you find a way to do an auto-translation please let me know!

#21 Tunnel Rat

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:32 AM



Around 1.120 under IRC and they very rarely sail to their rating, impossible on W/L.
In fact the owners who thought they could race them successfully are selling them now.
We raced against one in the Tour de Belle-Ile and it was rather sticky in the light, despite the massive spinny.


Is that for the 10.5 or 12.5? Might be a bit tough for the 10.5 to sail to PHRF 23. The Cone of Silence rates PHRF 26 at 30 feet and it's almost impossible to sail to...


10.50...
1.095 trial cert, most are above
http://www.assopogo....ogo10.50GTE.pdf


There is one Pogo 10.5 here which used to rate 1.118 on IRC and never came close to sailing to her handicap. But then she never entered the longer offshore races where she may have had a chance.

#22 Clovis

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:49 PM

Then check the JPK boats.


+1... i have a soft spot for those...
(for an example of IRC results, see Foggy Dew's)
but the Pogos are really cool too!

All in all, those boats make me salivate much more than the likes of X-yachts, even though they do not reach (at all) the same standards in terms of interior quality etc.

#23 LeoV

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:04 PM

Interiour, just get a load of beanbags and watertight bags :) Stack them to preference to create a swell living.

I know the JPK yard is a bit more helpfull about IRC, whereas Structures is less supportive on this.




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