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Kuka Light - Less is More

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#1 STYACHT

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:32 PM

Hi all,

Decided to start a thread to share some info and find out what kind of response the boat is finding in the Forums. One of the is that we are going to be presenting the boat in a few venues in the off season. First off is a short presentation at METS 2012 where Mitch Booth, multihull champion and helmsman of the boat, will discuss the cross overs between his multi experiences and Kuka Light.

Posted Image

http://www.kuka-light.com
http://www.marstrom.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=297:kuka-light-review-on-blurse&catid=84:news-spars-monohull&Itemid=72

In preparing data for the presentations, the similarity to the lightest of the IMOCA fleet (PRB) became pretty apparent. If you are able to join us in Amsterdam, we are going to be probing a bit deeper into the project.

The results of the boat in the two main regattas this season (both of which were exceedingly light air) don't do it justice. Really looking forward to pushing the concept even further.

#2 STYACHT

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:33 PM

I forgot, please use FB to sign up for the free presentation: https://www.facebook...98460326956458/

#3 STYACHT

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:11 PM

Getting of few of the simplified graphic comparisons together for this presentation. I thought it might be noteworthy to show how Kuka Light stacks up against some other boats. How light is light, how wide is wide, etc? For the following charts, a few bookends were normalized to the same LWL as Kuka. The notation is therefore: VOR42 for a 42' version of the VOR70, VO42OD for a 42' version of the new VO65OD, AC42 for a 42' version of the AC45, etc. For the IMOCA data, three current boats were averaged (one VPLP/Verdier, one OCDG, one JuanK). I make no claims about the accuracy of the data of the IMOCA's.

Attached File  Light.png   21.46K   361 downloads

Attached File  Wide.png   14.56K   419 downloads

Attached File  SADdw.png   15.29K   296 downloads

At the presentation there will be more such comparisons available, this is a sample.

#4 pogen

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

This is such a cool boat. Can you say what the cost comparison might be if it were in production? Way out of my league, but nice to think about.

I have seen some nice pieces about it on BLUR I think.

#5 Blur

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:35 AM

I have seen some nice pieces about it on BLUR I think.


http://www.blur.se/2...eet-kuka-light/

Definitely sweet. But tough work to get the full potential out
of for a "normal" crew. Kudos for doing it.

#6 STYACHT

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:21 PM

This is such a cool boat. Can you say what the cost comparison might be if it were in production? Way out of my league, but nice to think about.

I have seen some nice pieces about it on BLUR I think.


Thanks Pogen,

The thing about Kuka Light is there were very few discussions about the costs. Crazy, right? The owner was definitely focused on what he wanted, and we prioritized the weight over most everything. We used fibre that you normally would not, Kevlar Nomex which you might, but not if you were concerned about getting the bottom line under control. We built a carbon fin for the keel. Everything done in the autoclave, which has its price as well.

That is not to say we favored weight to strength without a thought. Aside, I chatted with Mitch yesterday, who just delivered the boat back from Malta to northern Italy. He quoted 40+ knots and 6m seas. Crazy! But he seemed pretty nonchalant hosing the boat down and putting her to bed. That said, she has yet to race in that wind. The structural arrangement has adequate frames from the standpoint of number and size. She's tough. Now that the mast is sorted, it is tough too.

The upside is that we have really solid female moulds for everything on board. That is the way you must work in the autoclave. I think that if we were to build the boat again, in the moulds, with conventional nomex, standard high strength carbon prepregs and a steel fin, we could probably produce the boat for 550k-600k Euro. It is a guess, and pretty much the cost of the competition in HPR. There would be a weight change, but it is manageable.

#7 bladerunnerSWE

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

to what extent are you trimming the mast under way? are you only rotating it or are you tilting it up to wind aswell? what does the running rigging look like?

best regards
Dag

#8 STYACHT

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

to what extent are you trimming the mast under way? are you only rotating it or are you tilting it up to wind aswell? what does the running rigging look like?

best regards
Dag


Hi Dag,

so, I have to assume you mean mast cant and not rake. We have all lashed standing rigging (top and bottom) and we do not move the rake or cant while underway. Not yet anyway. We have done some studies with the effectiveness of cant, combined in fact with higher angle keel cants (like ... wait for it ... Speeddream) but opted against this, not because the gains were not there, but because of complexity. It can still be revisited. Rotation of the mast is achieved through three sets of small tackle. It is both limited as with any cat rig (pulled toward CL), but also induced, due to the relatively low boom compression compared to mast compression.

The running rigging is pretty straightforward. Perhaps more than I would like, personally. The owner was very set against running anything below decks in tubes. He simply wants to see everything that is going on. For the solent we have a floating ring type lead (common on Class 40). All headsail sheets are cross sheeted always. Halyards all locked except Solent, due to reef. Tack lines all jammed on deck. Lots of lashed rings and few blocks. The main is trimmed like an X40 cat - full beam trav to winch and a hydraulic sheet, no vang. If you sail cats, no need to explain. If you sail most monos, think of the sheet on this boat like a vang - in charge of leach tension. Think of the trav like a sheet - in charge of angle of boom. We have a set of runners (now at topmast) and are experimenting with deflectors in the off season.

#9 Left Hook

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:41 PM

Just want to chime in and commend you in making the coolest, sexiest, fastest looking oats out there. It's truly so complex and awesome that I am in awe of the skills required to sail it to it's full potential, which, when realized, should be a force to be reckoned with.

#10 STYACHT

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:57 PM

Just want to chime in and commend you in making the coolest, sexiest, fastest looking oats out there. It's truly so complex and awesome that I am in awe of the skills required to sail it to it's full potential, which, when realized, should be a force to be reckoned with.

Your endorsement noted, but I want to qualify your statement just a bit. The boat is not that complicated, it is easy to make go fast. How could it not be? Helming is not a big effort, not that I have helmed for hours and days. The loads are not great, because the boat is so light, and not that big overall. It is powerful, but remember there are guys going alone around the world on 60' that are probably more powerful (in raw area terms) and nearly as light for their (2.5x larger) size.

Kuka sails with 6 crew - half that of boats her length. Yes, to get the maximum performance, it is very good to have experienced IMOCA, F20, X40, and/or VOR sailors on board, but I don't think that is due to complexity. They don't have to learn apparent wind sailing, and know immediately how to move weight and change sails. Most of the variables are set when the boat leaves the dock. If the keel system goes out, oh my, that is a problem, but otherwise, it is sailing.

Hard not to smile when you are chewing up the miles.

#11 bladerunnerSWE

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

Thanks for the reply! It's hard to workout all the details from the few pictures that are available. It's interesting because I haven't seen a wingmast on a monohull in the class (30-40'). We currently own and run a hydrofoil,wingmast tri ( http://sphotos-e.ak....7_3439862_n.jpg ) and are looking to implement as much as possible of what we've learnt into a monohull project in a couple of years (around 10m).

While we're on the topic of hightec stuff, what's your thoughts on different variations of DSS and intercept systems? Owen &clarke claim 10-20% less hull drag from their work on the open60 f.x

It wasn't my intention to hijack the thread to this degree, if you want to we can carry this over to pm's and I'll remove this post instead.

Best regards
Dag

#12 STYACHT

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

Hi Dag,

leave your post, because the link is worth it alone. Obviously with all that is going on in Auckland and San Francisco, it is awfully interesting to know what lurks beneath in that photo.

As for DSS, we spoke within the team early on whether this patented system was of interest for Kuka Light. The net outcome was no, it did not fit this project. We have raced against the Infiinti 30 in P2MC race, and the boat certainly seemed quick for her size. I understand the concept fully, but have not tried to crack into the details (after all, it is patented). Seems like an idea that continues to improve.

And as for the interceptor, or trim tabs in general, we did really see the point. We did some CFD work in a seaway early in the hull design, to settle the rocker question. We were not prepared to invest the amount of time it would take to get the gains that more variation in after section effects might provide. I don't know if I buy 10-20% less hull drag, at first glance. Maybe I have not paid precise enough attention, but have interceptors become standard in the latest IMOCA generation?

#13 bladerunnerSWE

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:54 PM

It's indeed interesting times for foil tech. On the subject of infiniti's dss, we have a few ideas and from a glance I -think- we can make a better foil.

To be honest I haven't paid interceptors any attention until I heard about it in http://www.youtube.c...ycAvVYc0#t=242s the other day. According to Mike Golding he's the only one still using it. With the extraordinary claims and real boat testing it should get more attention.

You've designed a beautiful boat and I'm looking forward to the presentation, assuming that it'll be streamed/youtubed ofc.

#14 Blur

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:11 AM

The word is that they had a hard time upwind in Middle Sea race, even compared to some of the Class 40. I guess it's not an easy boat upwind in a blow and choppy sea.

#15 STYACHT

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:49 AM

It's indeed interesting times for foil tech. On the subject of infiniti's dss, we have a few ideas and from a glance I -think- we can make a better foil.

To be honest I haven't paid interceptors any attention until I heard about it in http://www.youtube.c...ycAvVYc0#t=242s the other day. According to Mike Golding he's the only one still using it. With the extraordinary claims and real boat testing it should get more attention.

You've designed a beautiful boat and I'm looking forward to the presentation, assuming that it'll be streamed/youtubed ofc.

It is not planned to be streamed. I can ask the organizers or Mr. Clean if he can do anything to change that.

I am also hoping to present something similar in Sweden for the WYRF and the YRDTS. That will depend on the organization if we can be added to the program.

Cheers,
Doug

#16 STYACHT

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:54 AM

The word is that they had a hard time upwind in Middle Sea race, even compared to some of the Class 40. I guess it's not an easy boat upwind in a blow and choppy sea.

Upwind is not the ideal angle for Kuka Light. In the light light upwind, we cannot sail our "rating" which is faster than a boat twice as long. They do not have any trouble with a Class 40 if there are in anything like the same wind. We have the same sail area, same waterline more or less, a lot less weight, less wetted surface and far more efficient foils. If in the MSR they saw a Class 40 catch up to them, it was due to lack of wind and current. Maybe just sailing to the wrong side of the course. Stopped is stopped, whether 40' or 100'. In the MSR there was definitely no "blow" and only leftover chop very early on.

#17 hughw

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:39 PM

And as for the interceptor, or trim tabs in general, we did really see the point. We did some CFD work in a seaway early in the hull design, to settle the rocker question. We were not prepared to invest the amount of time it would take to get the gains that more variation in after section effects might provide. I don't know if I buy 10-20% less hull drag, at first glance. Maybe I have not paid precise enough attention, but have interceptors become standard in the latest IMOCA generation?

----------------

Can add a bit to this - I put trim tabs onto the Bols 93' back in 2002 having run the idea in the tank, and in practice then there were certainly times we saw 10% speed gain - and that was extremely quantifiable as we were in dead flat water on the lee side of Sjaelland, boat speed 20-24 knots steady, and the tabs would put on a full couple of knots as we flattened out the running angle.

I would guess the 10-20% figure of total hull drag though is a bit optimistic! Interceptors do work well but have a min speed before they become effective in the total drag tradeoffs, tabs are a bit more flexible in that respect.

#18 Blur

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:28 AM


The word is that they had a hard time upwind in Middle Sea race, even compared to some of the Class 40. I guess it's not an easy boat upwind in a blow and choppy sea.

Upwind is not the ideal angle for Kuka Light. In the light light upwind, we cannot sail our "rating" which is faster than a boat twice as long. They do not have any trouble with a Class 40 if there are in anything like the same wind. We have the same sail area, same waterline more or less, a lot less weight, less wetted surface and far more efficient foils. If in the MSR they saw a Class 40 catch up to them, it was due to lack of wind and current. Maybe just sailing to the wrong side of the course. Stopped is stopped, whether 40' or 100'. In the MSR there was definitely no "blow" and only leftover chop very early on.

Some shots from another competitor. Both Akilaria 40 och Pogo 40 were "notably faster" in those conditions. Same wind + track.

Naturally this is not what the boat is buit for, but it affects the time around the course. On elapsed time Kuka Light was equal with Marten 49, Welbourne 46 and Ker 51 - boats that should be beaten by a fair margin. I put this down to crew experience, but naturally every design have som s´weak spots that need to be managed and minimized.

Posted Image

Posted Image

#19 Team_EvoLv

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:59 PM



The word is that they had a hard time upwind in Middle Sea race, even compared to some of the Class 40. I guess it's not an easy boat upwind in a blow and choppy sea.

Upwind is not the ideal angle for Kuka Light. In the light light upwind, we cannot sail our "rating" which is faster than a boat twice as long. They do not have any trouble with a Class 40 if there are in anything like the same wind. We have the same sail area, same waterline more or less, a lot less weight, less wetted surface and far more efficient foils. If in the MSR they saw a Class 40 catch up to them, it was due to lack of wind and current. Maybe just sailing to the wrong side of the course. Stopped is stopped, whether 40' or 100'. In the MSR there was definitely no "blow" and only leftover chop very early on.

Some shots from another competitor. Both Akilaria 40 och Pogo 40 were "notably faster" in those conditions. Same wind + track.

Naturally this is not what the boat is buit for, but it affects the time around the course. On elapsed time Kuka Light was equal with Marten 49, Welbourne 46 and Ker 51 - boats that should be beaten by a fair margin. I put this down to crew experience, but naturally every design have som s´weak spots that need to be managed and minimized.

Posted Image

Posted Image


Good to see the arm chair admiralty has arrived! Children should never see things half done. Move along Blur, you're out of your depth

#20 Blur

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:45 AM

Good to see the arm chair admiralty has arrived! Children should never see things half done. Move along Blur, you're out of your depth

Sorry for relaying photos and feedback from reality. Shouldn't happen again.

What's the point of looking at actual results, photos and observations on the race course when we have all the experts available in this thread. Naturally you know better than the people who were there.

#21 Team_EvoLv

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:16 PM


Good to see the arm chair admiralty has arrived! Children should never see things half done. Move along Blur, you're out of your depth

What's the point of looking at actual results, photos and observations on the race course when we have all the experts available in this thread. Naturally you know better than the people who were there.


Take a look in the mirror Admiral! Are those office chairs getting uncomfortable yet?

Any 42fter that can finish within 4hrs of a group of 50-80ft boats over a 600nm race in light air is a rocket. More to the point, being corrected out by a boat of similar length that arrives in to port over a day later isn't much to brag about.

Stick to what you are good at, writing a nice story with pretty pictures. You'll go far!

#22 Blur

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

Any 42fter that can finish within 4hrs of a group of 50-80ft boats over a 600nm race in light air is a rocket.

Case closed. No need for any other input. Many thanks for your great in-depth analysis. Really impressive.

I'll go back to racing my 36fter, beating 45-55ft boats on the water. I guess we're a light wind rocket. Oh, btw, we win races on handicap as well. Then we don't have to whine on SA after each race.

So yeah, I really like the look from my office :D

#23 Team_EvoLv

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:48 PM


Any 42fter that can finish within 4hrs of a group of 50-80ft boats over a 600nm race in light air is a rocket.

Case closed. No need for any other input. Many thanks for your great in-depth analysis. Really impressive.

I'll go back to racing my 36fter, beating 45-55ft boats on the water. I guess we're a light wind rocket. Oh, btw, we win races on handicap as well. Then we don't have to whine on SA after each race.

So yeah, I really like the look from my office :D/>


Admiral, I'm surprised you don't have breathing difficulties with your head being so far up your arse. You've got nothing to brag about, don't ever forget it.

The facts remain, kuka is a brand new boat that is pushing new boundaries, boats like this take time to dial in. They sailed into the finish within 4hrs of a Cookson 50 and only 5hrs behind an old VO70, not bad for a 42fter!!! I'd say that was an awesome performance of the boat. Want to argue that too?

Making judgements about a boats supposed performance from an offshore race that had more restarts than a deals in a poker game is just dumb.

There are a lot of very knowledgable people on this website, if people like you didn't always take shots at their designs/products they would be more willing to contribute.

Oh yeah, just to be clear...they still corrected out well infront of the class 40s.

Next!





#24 Blur

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:41 PM

Admiral, I'm surprised you don't have breathing difficulties with your head being so far up your arse.

What's your problem?

If you bothered to read my post (instead of just trying to be smart) you would have noticed that I only commented on Kuka Lights upwind performance after the start, since I had proper intel on that. You know. People in the real world. Actually observing. Taking photos. Anyhow. The info was interesting feedback for some of the people involved.

To bad you had to be exposed to fact. Next time we'll take it offline to spare you...

There are a lot of very knowledgable people on this website, if people like you didn't always take shots at their designs/products they would be more willing to contribute.

I've been in contact with the designer, owner and builder on several occasions over the last year and I just wrote an article on Kuka Light giving proper credit to everyone involved. And when the mast broke, I decided not to post just to give the team a break.

So I don't need your "advise" on how to work with people in the business and what makes them willing to contribute.

But thanks for reminding me why I spend less and less time on SA.

#25 Team_EvoLv

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:57 PM


Admiral, I'm surprised you don't have breathing difficulties with your head being so far up your arse.

What's your problem?

If you bothered to read my post (instead of just trying to be smart) you would have noticed that I only commented on Kuka Lights upwind performance after the start, since I had proper intel on that. You know. People in the real world. Actually observing. Taking photos. Anyhow. The info was interesting feedback for some of the people involved.

To bad you had to be exposed to fact. Next time we'll take it offline to spare you...

There are a lot of very knowledgable people on this website, if people like you didn't always take shots at their designs/products they would be more willing to contribute.

I've been in contact with the designer, owner and builder on several occasions over the last year and I just wrote an article on Kuka Light giving proper credit to everyone involved. And when the mast broke, I decided not to post just to give the team a break.

So I don't need your "advise" on how to work with people in the business and what makes them willing to contribute.

But thanks for reminding me why I spend less and less time on SA.


Sorry blur, you just proved my point. Ignorance is bliss huh?

Oh don't let the door hit you on your way out

#26 bladerunnerSWE

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:06 PM

So how did the presentation go? any clips?

#27 STYACHT

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

Hi blade, the presentation went well. As expected we had 25-30 in the audience. As I was on the stage I did not record the presentation. Mr. Clean came in the middle and was not set up for a youtube vid.

It occurred to me that there was a regrettable omission in the presentation itself. A round of credits ought to be shared for Marstrom Composites (autoclaved everything), Soleri Composites (assembly and boat building), Angelo Glisoni (coordination), Trimarine (in the person of Sebastiano Rech-Mourasutti, build oversight) at the primary level. Also Piero Brussolo (moulds), the team at Cariboni (deck hydraulics), Greg Waters (keel hydraulics), Kevin/Hans/Patrick (NS, sailmaking), Peter Kohlhoff (custom deck), Lombardini (engine), Boatspeed (prop box) and Compotech (carbon/Ti shafting). If I missed anything, feel free to post...

I will ask around among the attendees to find out if clips or the whole thing was recorded. By next week, I hope to have at the very least some stills plus I will post the presentation itself is there is an appetite. FYI it was not death by Powerpoint. Quick and dirty. But a few images not otherwise publicized.

#28 STYACHT

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:40 PM

I am not going to be drawn into the duel above. I have zero problem with either Peter (Blur) or with criticism, the two not being lumped together. In the photographs I have seen from the beginning of the RMSR, the boat probably should either foot more, preferably reef, or perhaps both. The polars are pretty clear, pointing high is not a great idea, one needs speed in the boat to get the best VMG. But there are other factors in the real world, like waves. Kuka's low mass does mean they will accelerate and decelerate quicker than most boats. I will add that a rigging change shortly before the race limited our headstay tension more than usual or desired, hurting pointing.

I stand by my statement that we do not have a problem with Class 40's. Not even upwind if racing at near full potential, and certainly not over the course. Remember we do not care about rated results on this project - even if you all do. Of course it could easily be that we have more to learn about the boat. Upwind, I would be more worried about GP42's or the HPR40's than C40, as both Kuka Light and the C40 are ocean course concepts. The water ballast of the C40 comes in mighty handy.

#29 FastButNotFurious

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:19 AM

Congratulations for building this exceptional sailboat!
It is really important that we see such boats around that are focusing purely on performance and marine qualities, ignoring all these anachronistic rating systems that are putting competent designers to waste their time in making notoriously slow boats.

You had the luck and the privilege to have no budget restrictions. Ok this is how prototypes should ideally be. It would be interesting though to study a (limited) production version at a competitive price, maybe not a Kuka Light but a "Kuka Semi Skimmed" with some minimal amenities.

Making boats like this available to the broader sailing world can boost the entire sport which is lacking "fun" and speed at the moment although the potential is right here! Most sailors do not even know it is possible to get to these speed levels. I think there is a market for such a boat.

Keep on racing and sailing around this fantastic boat!

#30 STYACHT

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:21 AM

I am going to begin to link to the presentation (below), the still images made at the time of the presentation, and a few short videos. Still have not located a full end to end video of the talk.

To give you a bit of an overview, we introduced Mitch and our company, spoke for about 10 minutes on the development of Kuka Light.
  • the concept from the standpoint of the owner and Mitch
  • the areas of development chosen - 3 of 4 primarily catamaran topics: weight, rig, foils
  • the design phase including those developments, adding canting keel
  • pictures of build and sailing
  • further development initiatives
We then handed the talk back to Mitch to draw parallels to and comment on the ongoing developments in mulithulls, dominated right now by AC72 wings and foils. The audience was encouraged to participate, but we had limited questions.

Please feel free to take the conversation further here.

Attached File  Less is More.pdf   910.66K   70 downloads

#31 STYACHT

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:15 PM

Pictures from the presentation, and the Q&A after:

Attached File  2012-11-14 15.50.09 (Large).jpg   102.21K   12 downloads
Introduction of Mitch Booth

Attached File  2012-11-14 15.51.04 (Large).jpg   110.47K   18 downloads
Introduction of ST

Attached File  2012-11-14 15.51.53 (Large).jpg   118.48K   19 downloads
A few facts about Kuka Light

#32 STYACHT

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:19 PM


Mitch explains the inception of the project

#33 STYACHT

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:29 PM

More media further into the presentation:

Attached File  2012-11-14 15.59.07 (Large).jpg   97.52K   11 downloads
Doug explains the division of the boat into the autoclave


Doug begins the discussion of the design phase

Attached File  2012-11-14 16.09.00 (Large).jpg   98.89K   11 downloads
Mitch discussing AC72's state of the art

#34 STYACHT

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

Congratulations for building this exceptional sailboat!
It is really important that we see such boats around that are focusing purely on performance and marine qualities, ignoring all these anachronistic rating systems that are putting competent designers to waste their time in making notoriously slow boats.

You had the luck and the privilege to have no budget restrictions. Ok this is how prototypes should ideally be. It would be interesting though to study a (limited) production version at a competitive price, maybe not a Kuka Light but a "Kuka Semi Skimmed" with some minimal amenities.

Making boats like this available to the broader sailing world can boost the entire sport which is lacking "fun" and speed at the moment although the potential is right here! Most sailors do not even know it is possible to get to these speed levels. I think there is a market for such a boat.

Keep on racing and sailing around this fantastic boat!


See the notes earlier in the thread about my quick estimate of budgets for "Kuka - still pretty damned light"

Early days, but based on discussions at the METS, we have begun talks to produce a few more. We will try to get the word out when the time comes.

#35 Spoonie

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:05 PM

I am going to begin to link to the presentation (below), the still images made at the time of the presentation, and a few short videos. Still have not located a full end to end video of the talk.

Please feel free to take the conversation further here.

Attached File  Less is More.pdf   910.66K   70 downloads


Your S bend dagger boards are interesting... a better concept than perhaps what the DSS boys are playing with? less likely to pop out of the water in waves at least...

Would be keen to see the full video if it ever comes available

#36 Autograph

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:53 PM

Loving the look of the boat, the owner seems to have a very focused vision. All we have for AV so far on this thread is a pic of her dragging her nose about, upwind, and some pics of a guy in a vee neck sweater. Just saying. Any chance youse could send the boat properly, in a mistral, and get the footage out? A 2 min clip is worth 10000 words...

Anyway, best of luck with the programme. Fastnet? or just a med/lake fair weather toy?

#37 Left Hook

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:29 AM

Loving the look of the boat, the owner seems to have a very focused vision. All we have for AV so far on this thread is a pic of her dragging her nose about, upwind, and some pics of a guy in a vee neck sweater. Just saying. Any chance youse could send the boat properly, in a mistral, and get the footage out? A 2 min clip is worth 10000 words...

Anyway, best of luck with the programme. Fastnet? or just a med/lake fair weather toy?




https://www.google.com/search?q=Kukalight&hl=en&safe=off&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=cbeyUKiWGKfV0QHIyoCADA&ved=0CEYQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=912

#38 STYACHT

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:23 AM

Loving the look of the boat, the owner seems to have a very focused vision. All we have for AV so far on this thread is a pic of her dragging her nose about, upwind, and some pics of a guy in a vee neck sweater. Just saying. Any chance youse could send the boat properly, in a mistral, and get the footage out? A 2 min clip is worth 10000 words...

Anyway, best of luck with the programme. Fastnet? or just a med/lake fair weather toy?


Please also link through to the boat's site for the race program. This boat is meant for the Rolex MSR and the Rolex Fastnet primarily. There are no plans to race in the lakes, though when I dream, I would like to fit an AC45 wing and do something in Geneva with it.

A note about that video, that is very very early in the trials period.

#39 STYACHT

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:27 AM

Posted Image

This is the appropriately named "Drifter", at the end of the Palermo to Monte Carlo race. Mid sprit, not quite to the masthead. Note that the mailsail is not looking so flash here, in part due to issues with battens, and in part due to repairs from when the mast was dropped when a lashing gave way, breaking the boom. (Different to when the masthead was broken as seen on SA front page)

#40 STYACHT

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:29 AM

Posted Image

This is one of the few shots I have of the masthead A3 up, during sea trials in May. Boat did not take this sail on RMSR, taking a new fuller masthead Genneker instead.

Note that in this shot, there are two guys on the bow as they are already sailing low to go for the furl. I have a video of this too, but haven't posted because it is not at full tilt.

#41 STYACHT

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:22 AM


I am going to begin to link to the presentation (below), the still images made at the time of the presentation, and a few short videos. Still have not located a full end to end video of the talk.

Please feel free to take the conversation further here.

Attached File  Less is More.pdf   910.66K   70 downloads


Your S bend dagger boards are interesting... a better concept than perhaps what the DSS boys are playing with? less likely to pop out of the water in waves at least...

Would be keen to see the full video if it ever comes available


I talked with Hugh for some time at METS. We have mutual respect for each others work.

The preliminary S and C foil configurations that we developed (in 2009/2010) for Kuka were done to show the possibility to foil assist for shedding some wetted surface and to trim bow up, primarily. They would offer little or nothing in way of additional RM in the configurations the we have looked at, reacting a lot like the hull's displacement with heel. They presume the boat has a canting keel (maybe mast) to shift CG to windward. Yes, being farther from the free surface, they could for example be pitched harder.

DSS works to leeward to do both lifting and righting. I have yet to see a compelling reason to introduce it into a canting keel (though there is a mini about, so we ought to see this soon). I will let HughW speak to the combination.

Does this answer your question?

#42 STYACHT

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:26 AM

Loving the look of the boat, the owner seems to have a very focused vision. All we have for AV so far on this thread is a pic of her dragging her nose about, upwind, and some pics of a guy in a vee neck sweater. Just saying. Any chance youse could send the boat properly, in a mistral, and get the footage out? A 2 min clip is worth 10000 words...

Anyway, best of luck with the programme. Fastnet? or just a med/lake fair weather toy?


Film made by www.saily.it from Palermo to Monte Carlo 2012 (see their site for original)



#43 STYACHT

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:34 AM

... I have a video of this too, but haven't posted because it is not at full tilt.




#44 Autograph

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:00 PM

Sold, you have made a thing of beauty. Love the clean exit off the stern. Makes class 40's seem tubby.

#45 STYACHT

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

Sorry I have not checked into this topic of late. Thanks for your thumbs up there, Autograph, Left Hook etc.

News from the boat front, we are going ahead with some performance mods and optimization studies. Speaking to Mitch the other day "there is so much performance to be found, we have hardly scratched the surface..." I don't know yet if the boat was signed up under the big rush to race in this year's Fastnet. I will try to find out for y'all.

First numbers being put together for a bigger version of the same concept. Not sure which will offend the Swede's most, but I am going with Kuka XL.

Also wanted to note that I will be in Dusseldorf on Sunday if anybody missed out on the METS event and would like to sit down and have a chat about the boat, or anything else.

#46 STYACHT

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:03 AM

Hi SA'ers,

So, the winter break and work session is nearly done. Kuka Light is back in the water, having had some nip-tuck work in the stern overhang, general updates and maintenance to rig / deck hardware, and most notably a new suite of instruments. Still in process is some adjustments to the dagger angles, but that is nearly complete.

The hull was laser scanned for measurement purposes last season, and this data, when carefully reverse engineered, proved that there were some shape differences that needed study. First a large physical template was made to confirm the shape. Then, a RANS CFD study was started to understand the impact of this, the effectiveness of corrective measures, and what performance improvements might be found with the use of interceptors. It is a fascinating result. @Blur may remind us that some people noted a bow down trim. This tendency has its roots in the beam of the boat, especially when pointing, but the shape of the stern was very strongly adding to it, particularly at reaching speeds. The good news is that the owner immediately felt the improvement when the corrected stern was sea trialed. We have yet to try the interceptors, but one step at a time.

Follow the link to FB below for images of the work.

She will now be running NKE instruments and using some customized hardware and software for data processing. Routing will from now on be done with Adrena, Optima and routage Pro. Thanks to http://www.boattech.it/ and http://www.pochon.com/ for all of their efforts in this area.

The first feedback came in the form of a leeway study. Conditions were a bit less than ideal, but the results are also very interesting. The work continues, with changes being evaluated and the results being fed back into our VPP for further development and understanding of the boat's potential. Next update I hope to include the regatta schedule for 2013.

#47 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:46 PM

I like the boat. But I really like the mast and rigging best.

#48 STYACHT

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:29 PM

Yves-Marie, care to elaborate?  The only difference to say, an IMOCA, is the lack of deck spreaders.  The difference to an Extreme 40 is ... almost none.

 

The boat had a short race this past weekend.  The new 3di main and jib were both in fine form, in pretty light winds.  According to the crew, it was disappointing that the Cookson 50 was not out for competition.  The handful of Class 40 yachts kept close for the first (lighter) half, with the Akilaria Aki Sports Three being the quickest.  But in the end, when the breeze came up to max 15kn, Kuka Light, pretty easily took line honors by some hours.  I am struggling to find the rated results on the site: http://www.laregatad...lassifiche.aspx  Find the race called ACT 1 Balene and see overall ranking.  

 

Well let's see for ourselves... K-L has 1.437 (using 2012 still despite some headsail changes) and Aki Sports Three had 1.257 (also 2012).  Racing 26.3 hours, K-L had to win by 3 hours and 46 minutes to win in IRC.  The actual difference was 3 hours, 24 minutes.  Don't know if it was scored that way, because there is no definitive answer on the regatta site.

 

Nontheless, congratulations to Franco Niggeler, Mitch Booth, and crew onboard for a good start to the 2013 racing season.



#49 STYACHT

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:53 PM

Images from the race.  They did get the win, so the above estimate was obviously off.  Upwind, both ways...

 

536243_595867793759100_610524643_n.jpg

 

537880_595867640425782_1785008665_n.jpg

 

Next race should be http://www.151miglia.it/race-2013.  I am told there will be some closer boat for boat racing, with TP52, Cookson 50, and larger boats in the fleet.



#50 JL92S

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:01 PM

I thought it was the plan for Kuka Light to do the fastnet? I can't see the boat on the entry list.

#51 STYACHT

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:55 PM

I thought it was the plan for Kuka Light to do the fastnet? I can't see the boat on the entry list.

 

In fact the decision was made not to enter this year's Fastnet.  I don't really know why, and wish it was not the case.  The boat is perhaps not up to full potential, but it'd still be a great race.



#52 JL92S

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:17 AM


I thought it was the plan for Kuka Light to do the fastnet? I can't see the boat on the entry list.

 
In fact the decision was made not to enter this year's Fastnet.  I don't really know why, and wish it was not the case.  The boat is perhaps not up to full potential, but it'd still be a great race.
That's a shame I was looking forward to seeing it before the race and possibly in Cowes week as well. How about a transpac?

#53 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 02:41 PM

]STYACHT. "care to elaborate".

To answer your private conversation. The Imoca's boat with rotating masts seem to favor deck spreaders. They have shown to be vulnerable in several situations documented in the last and previous Vendee's type of races. I have been in favor of a rig, such as this one designed in the 90's  of a rotating spar with diamond rigging. I thing the deck spreaders came later and I never liked the system. I tried to explain in my blog and I understand that a few Imoca's in 2004 and 08 had rotating masts without deck spreaders, to be disgarded later for weight consideration. This is why I see with Kuka light a step in the right direction.   

Attached File  OP60MSAIL-AL19-13.jpg   134.54K   123 downloads

 



#54 STYACHT

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:53 PM

Tanton Y_M,

thanks for that!  As I mentioned before Kuka Light is beamier for her "size" than the current crop of IMOCA's.  Not sure if there were not a few wider boats in the history of the class.  We never really had deck spreaders on the drawing board. We spent a lot of time comparing wing mast to conventional.  Weight vs. Effy.

 

Well, racing begins again this weekend.  The 151 Miglia (Miles) race in Liguria.  There are not that many boats that line up well.  Sagamore rates faster in IRC.  The Cookson 50 will be rating in ORC.  A few carbon 60 footers, and some older TP's, all of which we owe time to.  The good news is: wind.  Bad news, angle.

 

I will be posting on FB from time to time during the race.  https://www.facebook...44549351?ref=hl

 

217310_609212925763582_1898407099_n.png



#55 STYACHT

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:51 PM

(Welcome) change of course by the RC.  doc

 

percorso-regata-2013.jpg

 

They have eliminated the beat to Giraglia.  So we are left with a tight reach to Elba, east of Capri.  Should be quick, but not necessarily comfortable.  Leftover seas which are supposed to be as high as 4-5 m tonight.  A lot of wind and wave building in the first night on the west side of Corsica.  That coming around the northern cape must have been giving the organizers heartburn, far more than the windspeed/direction at the start.

 

I guess it is not 151 miles anymore.  Probably something more like 125, guessing.  That wind and angle suits Kuka Light, say average of 12-13 knots,  could it be a finish in just 10 hours?  4 pm is the start, unless that shifts as well.  

 

Send it Mitch!



#56 STYACHT

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:26 AM

EDIT ....  Probably something more like 125 114.8 nm, guessing.  ...

 

Send it Mitch, FRANCO and team!



#57 STYACHT

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:45 AM

954863_610794932272048_541306770_n.png

Sending...  

thanks to 151 Miglia and Yellowbrick, by the way.

http://yb.tl/miglia2013



#58 STYACHT

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:00 AM

Delivery has been delayed.  The med rears its passive head.



#59 duncan (the other one)

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:56 AM

]STYACHT. "care to elaborate".

To answer your private conversation. The Imoca's boat with rotating masts seem to favor deck spreaders. They have shown to be vulnerable in several situations documented in the last and previous Vendee's type of races. I have been in favor of a rig, such as this one designed in the 90's  of a rotating spar with diamond rigging. I thing the deck spreaders came later and I never liked the system. I tried to explain in my blog and I understand that a few Imoca's in 2004 and 08 had rotating masts without deck spreaders, to be disgarded later for weight consideration. This is why I see with Kuka light a step in the right direction.   

attachicon.gifOP60MSAIL-AL19-13.jpg

 

 

whoa... its a forest of diamonds!

 

Elliot always favoured a simple diamond setup for his rotating rigs.

 

Sportivo-3.jpg

 

http://www.elliott-m...m/sportivo.html



#60 STYACHT

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:54 PM

]STYACHT. "care to elaborate".

To answer your private conversation. The Imoca's boat with rotating masts seem to favor deck spreaders. They have shown to be vulnerable in several situations documented in the last and previous Vendee's type of races. I have been in favor of a rig, such as this one designed in the 90's  of a rotating spar with diamond rigging. I thing the deck spreaders came later and I never liked the system. I tried to explain in my blog and I understand that a few Imoca's in 2004 and 08 had rotating masts without deck spreaders, to be disgarded later for weight consideration. This is why I see with Kuka light a step in the right direction.   

attachicon.gifOP60MSAIL-AL19-13.jpg

 

 

whoa... its a forest of diamonds!

 

Elliot always favoured a simple diamond setup for his rotating rigs.

 

Sportivo-3.jpg

 

http://www.elliott-m...m/sportivo.html

Very cool boat that one.  Has it had a successful racing career?  Though, to be honest, that jib looks like from another era.



#61 STYACHT

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:25 PM

It looks like a finish after 16 hours, fourth at the line, behind Sagamore 80', a 63' performance cruiser, and the Cookson 50.  Average speed around 7.2 knots.  The park ups did them no favors, especially the SW cape of Elba, where a considerable amount of time was lost.  The final leg proved crucial for line honors, upwind in approx. 10 knots.  All three of the boats above got past Kuka on that leg.

 

Have to confirm all of that after speaking to the crew.  No idea what the seas were like.



#62 duncan (the other one)

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 12:26 AM

 

]STYACHT. "care to elaborate".

To answer your private conversation. The Imoca's boat with rotating masts seem to favor deck spreaders. They have shown to be vulnerable in several situations documented in the last and previous Vendee's type of races. I have been in favor of a rig, such as this one designed in the 90's  of a rotating spar with diamond rigging. I thing the deck spreaders came later and I never liked the system. I tried to explain in my blog and I understand that a few Imoca's in 2004 and 08 had rotating masts without deck spreaders, to be disgarded later for weight consideration. This is why I see with Kuka light a step in the right direction.   

attachicon.gifOP60MSAIL-AL19-13.jpg

 

 

whoa... its a forest of diamonds!

 

Elliot always favoured a simple diamond setup for his rotating rigs.

 

Sportivo-3.jpg

 

http://www.elliott-m...m/sportivo.html

Very cool boat that one.  Has it had a successful racing career?  Though, to be honest, that jib looks like from another era.

 

well.. it may have been a tad windy that day -- looks like a reef and an offshore 4.

 

maybe this is more to your liking.

Sportivo-1.jpg

 

Elliot is hardly one to be behind the times... this from '95

 

Primo-2.jpg



#63 STYACHT

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:14 PM

It looks like a finish after 16 hours, fourth at the line, behind Sagamore 80', a 63' performance cruiser, and the Cookson 50.  Average speed around 7.2 knots.  The park ups did them no favors, especially the SW cape of Elba, where a considerable amount of time was lost.  The final leg proved crucial for line honors, upwind in approx. 10 knots.  All three of the boats above got past Kuka on that leg.

 

Have to confirm all of that after speaking to the crew.  No idea what the seas were like.

Correction, fifth at the line, because B2 (IRC 52, TP ish) had no tracker.  Fifth in class also rated IRC, which really is not the point on this boat.  The point is that at 42' she finished 16 minutes behind Sagamore and to be honest, had a real shot at line honors.  Without the aggravating restarts, which just are a reality of yacht racing, this should have been a race against time on the upwind leg.   Even with the restarts, had things been a bit more effective at Elba, this could have turned out very differently.

 

Congratulations to all teams on the podium and a special mention to Wawa (Ak40) which had Marco Nannini on board, IIRC.

 

Next up Gigralia, a regatta we could not quite make last season.  Hoping for the sleigh ride to repeat!

 

Attached File  results 151.png   10.9K   43 downloads

 

I have included the Cookson 50, which raced in ORC class, using the IRC TCC from Cantakerous just for kicks.



#64 STYACHT

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:23 PM

 

 

]STYACHT. "care to elaborate".

To answer your private conversation. The Imoca's boat with rotating masts seem to favor deck spreaders. They have shown to be vulnerable in several situations documented in the last and previous Vendee's type of races. I have been in favor of a rig, such as this one designed in the 90's  of a rotating spar with diamond rigging. I thing the deck spreaders came later and I never liked the system. I tried to explain in my blog and I understand that a few Imoca's in 2004 and 08 had rotating masts without deck spreaders, to be disgarded later for weight consideration. This is why I see with Kuka light a step in the right direction.   

attachicon.gifOP60MSAIL-AL19-13.jpg

 

 

whoa... its a forest of diamonds!

 

Elliot always favoured a simple diamond setup for his rotating rigs.

 

Sportivo-3.jpg

 

http://www.elliott-m...m/sportivo.html

Very cool boat that one.  Has it had a successful racing career?  Though, to be honest, that jib looks like from another era.

 

well.. it may have been a tad windy that day -- looks like a reef and an offshore 4.

 

maybe this is more to your liking.

Sportivo-1.jpg

 

Elliot is hardly one to be behind the times... this from '95

 

Primo-2.jpg

Hey Duncan, 

 

no doubt, ahead of his time!  Everybody knows Maximus, and her career (ahem, not the simplest rig ever).  Everybody knows Mari Cha IV as well.  I knew also of Outsider and A Southern Man, I reckon that was the most form stability that Elliot was ever a part of.  For the most part, these canters are all of the slim type.  Kuka Light more resembles an IMOCA, as I bet you'll agree.  Aside, pretty surprising Elliot did not get into gen1 VO70s or IMOCA.



#65 Left Hook

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:13 AM

What is that Sagamore boat racing IRC? 



#66 STYACHT

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:35 AM

What is that Sagamore boat racing IRC? 

http://sparkmansteph...4-sagamore.html

 

End hijack  ;-)



#67 Left Hook

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:49 AM

G'damn. I can't imagine the loads involved with that boat now that I have a good idea what a 66' IMS racer takes to race



#68 Christian

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:01 AM

well - you learn to not hang out in the Zone of Death on boats like that.............................nothing like a runner block exploding and the runner zinghing towards you

G'damn. I can't imagine the loads involved with that boat now that I have a good idea what a 66' IMS racer takes to race



#69 Left Hook

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:10 PM

I gotta wonder... are there non-death-zones on a boat like that? 



#70 Christian

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:04 PM

Yep - plenty

I gotta wonder... are there non-death-zones on a boat like that? 



#71 BalticBandit

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:10 PM

I remember being on Brindy when the mainsheet blew up going upwind...  Thought we'd hit something.  but since we were close hauled, the boom didn't even really go anywhere.   Meanwhile me was happy as a clam on the number one pedestal....no blocks nearby to blow up.  and the big coffee cans were further aft if they decided to launch and the secondaries weren't all that big



#72 STYACHT

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:42 AM

I am guessing this discussion is to prove the point of Kuka LIGHT by expressing the downsides of the opposite?  

 

Anyway, maxis, even heavier ones than Sagamore, have been around for a while. They go in the direction of ever heavier equipment, more displacement, more power, bigger sails, heavier gear etc. etc.  Then there are superyachts.  If you think an 80' footer feels like a bomb about to go off, race a 40m some time.

 

I am not saying there is nothing that can be a potential danger on a boat exploring the opposite end of the spectrum.  The keel is still a tonne, out there at an angle, a good long ways.  But, when all is done and said we have about that max load on the mainsheet block and other running rigging.  About 1 tonne ... can still hurt you if you don't use your head.

 

End hijack!



#73 STYACHT

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:23 AM

So this weekend is the Rolex Giraglia 2013.  For some reason, the official site links go back to the Yacht Club Italiano, which I don't really get.  Racing for Kuka Light should be next Wednesday because as far as I know she is not entered for the W-L inshore racing in San Tropez.

 

Below an excerpt from the entry list.  Kuka Light has been classed in IRC A, which on the one hand means we will not be going for a class trophy opposite much much larger boats.  There are some nice boats there like the 52's.  And there is a long list of very distant ratings to contend with, depending of course on the weather.  We hope for a breezy downwind slide, no surprise.

 

I will personally be interested to see how Kuka Light performs offshore opposite the Groupe Bel.  Not often you see a modern IMOCA on this course.

 

Also interesting is the mini maxi grouping of 4 boats from 3 different designers.  The new Alegre will have to shine to outpace the well oiled Ran and Stig.  She seems to be just a tiny bit more rating optimised.  I wonder why Highland Fling is not at this one, while her little sister, the Ker 46 is going to be.

 

Attached File  G13.png   653.57K   52 downloads



#74 moody frog

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:55 AM

For some reason, the official site links go back to the Yacht Club Italiano, which I don't really ge

 

Actually the Giraglia race was co-founded in 1952 by the Yacht-Club Italiano and the then French Ocean Racing Club U.N.C, as a mediterranean answer to the Fastnet race.

 

Always going round the Giraglia rock, the race-starting point (and therefore arrival) alternated between France and Italy, every other year.

While Y.C.I had it's club-house in Genova, U.N.C was a national club and had to rely on a local club to run the french side, it long was Toulon.

 

45+ years after, just after commercial-sponsoring came in, St Tropez Y.C (following the success of Nioulargue) came in to run  the start and pre-race series + Ashore hulabaloo. The course was now set with a start in France and arrival in Italy.

 

SNST may be the "technical" organisers on spot, but founders remain at the helm.



#75 STYACHT

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:25 PM

Hi Moody,

was referring more to the fact that last year there was a site called www.giragliarolexcup.com.  This no longer points to an independent site, but links to a less than stunning YC site.  It does now at least go to a tracking app.  http://www.sgstracki...iarolex2013.php



#76 STYACHT

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:26 PM

Tracker is active, but as with Yellowbrick the updates are so infrequent, one can't tell too much.  At least yellowbrick had playback.  This seems to be last polling only.  Also, the data regarding next waypoint are wrong, making the leaderboard uninteresting for now.  Add to that a weather overlay that is literally a bit map and it becomes painful to try to follow the race.  Where is Estar when we need him!

 

Magic Carpet seems to be out in front.  Class winner in IRC0 for the inshore portion - Alegre - is off to an ok start.    Ran and Stig seem dead even just ahead.  Shockwave in back of that grouping.  Though with a current boat speeds at the front of the fleet around 6 or 8 knots, I have to believe it is a drift fest out there.  

 

Kuka Light is moving at this instant showing 9.8 knts, but given where she is in the fleet, I think that is not anything like an average over even the last hour.  To add insult to light air injury, this year looks like mostly a beat to windward - winds are primarily ENE right now.  http://www.lamma.ret...regata-giraglia



#77 bush sailer

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 05:23 AM

With these canting boats why don't the canting foils use flaps to create liftin the top third or down force in say the bottom third of the foil?

#78 STYACHT

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:15 AM

With these canting boats why don't the canting foils use flaps to create liftin the top third or down force in say the bottom third of the foil?

 

So as to generate more righting moment?  Well, in the case of Kuka Light the answer is complexity and weight.  In the case of IMOCA, it would have to do with the number of moving appendages allowed within the class rules.  I think it could be done on a mini.  

 

More generally, there are a few drawbacks to the system you suggest.  Drag, nearness to the free surface (especially the top third when heeled) could mean ventilation, potential flutter.  To generate more RM it would only be necessary to put a down force.  In practice, it is shown on IMOCA's and similar, that a neutral angle to the flow or upward lift is faster in fact, but this also has to do with high speed surfs.

 

That said, we have designed, and just built, a system that does something analogous, not on the keel spar, but  ... that is a topic for a whole other thread, and we are waiting until sea trials are done to go public.



#79 STYACHT

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:26 AM

So, a justified if just slightly shameless bump of this thread.  We are about to embark on another key race, the 2013 Rolex MSR.  It looks light again, though I really hope not as light as last year.  It just got more interesting as Esimit Europa has withdrawn from the race having broken the top mast.

 

1375159_10152266255339202_78044041_n.jpg

 

So here is a form sheet for the race, IRC1:

 

Attached File  2013RMSR.png   7.23K   0 downloads

 

A few other interesting boats for Kuka Light will be on the race course.  2 IMOCAs, one TP52 and the Cookson 50 Cantakerous will be about.  The latter two are rated in IRC2, which seems to have a cutoff below TCC 1.40 as last year.  There are also a total of 5 Class 40's in the race, getting a one design division.  Let's hope that is one design in quotes.

 

Question that comes to mind is why is Stig not there this year?  I thought Alegre was the inshore specialist?  Also, never mind the fact that the RC seems to have also placed a J122 in IRC 1, ooops.

 

Kuka Light will again be a small boat in a (very) big boat class, a giant killer. Maybe? In the light stuff, she will struggle to outpace the mini maxis and should not have any chance against the Z86 or the new Finot 30m cruiser racer.  Beating Shamlor and/or Caro boat for boat would be a pretty big win.  A man has to dream.  FYI, she will be racing with 6 crew (one below is shore team):

 

1275663_10152277123304202_1840590274_o.j



#80 Vincent DePillis

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:51 PM

what would be really cool is if you could post some hi rez pix of construction and rigging details.

 

The pic above sure show off the boat to best advantage.  It looks almost graceful.  In a sharp edged kind of way.



#81 STYACHT

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:34 PM

what would be really cool is if you could post some hi rez pix of construction and rigging details.

 

The pic above sure show off the boat to best advantage.  It looks almost graceful.  In a sharp edged kind of way.

 

I would refer you to the boat's site http://www.kuka-light.com/  though it has not had a good update recently.  Construction pics are there.

 

A few

P1030209.jpg

 

P1040478.jpg

 

P1090692.jpg



#82 STYACHT

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:17 AM

They are off.  IRC1 was the last start.  Luckily just realized that the start was broadcast on www.vsail.info .  

 

Kuka Light worked pretty hard to get to the windward end of the close reaching start line.  But, size matters in a crowd.  She was rolled or passed to leeward by all but I think 3 boats heading out the harbor.  Once they cleared the harbor entrance, it looked pretty good for Kuka Light.  She seemed to have the pace she needed to hold her own.  It could be good if the strength and angles allow here to plane where the other boats can't quite.  

 

That said, the best starts were had by the two mini maxis and the Z86.  They started duking it out right away.

 

1394151_677191622299045_1930851726_n.png

 

David among Goliaths

 

1384310_677191595632381_1361183183_n.png

 

Outside the harbor.  Momentarily with more pace than the doublehanded HB.  Funny, Mitch and Guillermo Altadill are neighbors in Spain.  Hi neighbor!



#83 STYACHT

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:59 PM

57e7140744ffcff76a52c8ae716a710d82645427

 

A little later in the sequence

 

8dba14d6ef11e4b37765e2ca45ceb8a436653268

 

Alegre, ex Ran (Robertissima III) and Morning Glory



#84 STYACHT

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:31 PM

823400_677446868940187_1699205967_o.png

 

Reaching is good

 

1394465_677448352273372_626608684_n.png

 

Monster VO70 overhauled us,  Neck and neck with B2



#85 STYACHT

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 08:31 PM

BW9Fip6CQAAGtCh.jpg

 

So 4 boats behind leaving the harbor.  Great photo from vsail twitter feed.  Not sure who the credits belong to...



#86 LeoV

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:20 AM

more please, I always like giant killers :)



#87 STYACHT

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:34 AM

THESE RESULTS ARE PREDICTED OR PROVISIONAL - Refer to race website for official results!
Rank,Team,TCF,Time (UTC),Latitude,Longitude,Average COG,Average SOG (knots),VMG so far (knots),DTF (NM)

IRC 1
1,OTRA VEZ,1.089,20/10/2013 07:00:00,038 27.628N,015 33.502E,332,8.8,7.8,444.4
2,ALEGRE,1.585,20/10/2013 07:00:00,038 50.554N,014 39.514E,250,3.9,10.4,392.3
3,Kuka-Light,1.430,20/10/2013 07:00:00,038 51.915N,015 10.142E,262,11.9,9.3,415.1
4,SHAMLOR,1.438,20/10/2013 07:00:00,038 50.720N,015 11.011E,265,11.3,9.3,415.4
5,WILD JOE,1.488,20/10/2013 07:00:00,038 51.037N,015 02.095E,249,6.4,9.6,408.9
6,CARO,1.484,20/10/2013 07:00:00,038 51.862N,015 04.401E,302,7.7,9.5,410.9
7,ROBERTISSIMA III,1.590,20/10/2013 07:00:00,038 49.727N,014 45.970E,283,0.8,10.2,396.6
8,Morning Glory,1.703,20/10/2013 07:00:00,038 52.661N,014 33.533E,281,3.8,10.6,388.8
9,Big One,1.406,20/10/2013 07:00:00,038 32.197N,015 28.433E,308,8.8,8.2,438.4
10,MONSTER PROJECT,1.651,20/10/2013 07:00:00,038 51.818N,015 03.551E,281,7.5,9.5,410.2

 

Here is the situation in class, more or less, this morning.  I would point out that Otra Vez is not actually in IRC1.  How could they be with that rating?  So in IRC1 Kuka Light has slipped to 2nd behind Alegre.  On the water, I am really impressed with Caro.  I had to go see what this Botin design is all about - it has a lift keel with a down draft of 4.8m if I saw that right.  That makes this boat like a supercharged STP65.

 

1382899_677677908917083_1205827901_n.png

 

920589_677678785583662_2072060343_o.png

 

System driven light southerlies.  Maybe 10 knots where Kuka Light is right now.



#88 STYACHT

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:36 PM

Kuka Light seems to have taken some knocks when the winds died.  I don't have any explanation for the extreme northerly position they took.  Now they have to claw back after the leaders.  

 

Anyway, compilation of the starting area, with a lot of the same old same old.  Kuka gets her 4 seconds at 9:42. 



#89 STYACHT

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 08:09 PM

An update of the situation as the boat nears Lampedusa.  The last leg from the northwest headland of Sicily was a drag race, one where Kuka Light got a jump on the boats that has caught up to her in the fickle breezes and ... no comment ... routing choices on the north coast.  Boat speeds almost equal to wind speed meant she quickly caught up to the slower Cookson 50 and a Cori 52.  As they round the next mark and go completely upwind, still going 8.5 ish knots, it seems she will make the pass of these two.  I think the wind shifted a bit more ESE, which helps, for the moment.

 

Emma, a Swan 60, is in range to pass on the blast reach to Malta.  That should happen, and in truth should have happened around Messina - for good.  Getting past the other Cookson 50 would be a bonus, as would holding off the VO70 Monster Project.  But it seems that podium in the IRC1 is out of the question now, with many hours to make up and the mini maxis not making any mistakes.  The line honours Morning Glory won't be getting the IRC1 win, it seems.  But, with light air very likely to dominate the finish area, who knows what might happen.

 

More discussion here

 

1384355_678416025509938_656949721_n.jpg



#90 STYACHT

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:09 AM

more please, I always like giant killers :)

9dc375b5a5f1d616f134932d97fddc92.jpg

 

ab76b419cbcec1d22250259c377f7be6.jpg

 

0b7767cbfb8b337421ebc73909c28bec.jpg



#91 STYACHT

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:22 PM

Attached File  almost.png   62.19K   7 downloads

 

Final stretches now.  The die is cast.  I would not consider it a great race for Kuka Light, and I don't think the problem was boatspeed.  I will find out soon if everything was working correctly, but it looked to be on the reaches and also upwind.  I don't particularly think rating was the problem, as the boat was at or near the head of her class to Messina.  Sure upwind was going to be a challenge vis-a-vis rating, but that is life.

 

IRC1 we will finish 6th of 9 boats, assuming the organization has one boat listed in wrong class on Yellowbrick.  IRC overall, we stand in 24th of 88.  In terms of line honours, 15th boat to finish, and well in front of much bigger boats.  Still, the feeling is that routing mistakes made for a "middle of the road" finish.

 

Not being able to catch the Cori 53 as the wind faded to the end, on what must have been a close to beam reach, is a blow.  First half of that last leg, Kuka was easily 10% faster, but eventually she came off plane, down to the high 6s and low 7s in 7-8 knots of wind.  The Cookson 50 Chippa Lippa found another gear/sail on the last leg, stretching where they had not before.  I will be honest, I did not see finishing this course after a Swan 60.  But, such is life.

 

Class win goes to Alegra, congratulations all around.  Well prepared, well sailed, and managed.  It looks like the overall win will go to B2, a boat that sailed a very good race, as it should be.



#92 SCANAS

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:15 AM

Less might be more but for all that extra cost are the owners happy given her results?

#93 STYACHT

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:00 AM

Less might be more but for all that extra cost are the owners happy given her results?

 

Hi SCANAS,

 

if you are referring to the IRC rated results, they really don't care one bit for that at all.  I mean it.  It may be hard for others to follow, but it is that way.  

 

If OTOH you are referring to racing a 42 foot yacht on a long offshore course, and not getting beat on the water by any boat under 50 feet, I think they are happy about that.  In truth, except for maybe Cantankerous, which sailed really well again this year, they could have beat everything up to 60 feet as well.  But they did not sail their best race.

 

By the way, after having talked to Jason about that new Class 40 design and having seen what goes into the build of Fantastica, there is not that much in it, little difference in costs.  I think everybody is happy to have spent the funds on real performance leaps.



#94 LeoV

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:34 PM

Nice photos, the leaving the third one is great :)

 

Line honours are king, specially if you won a lot handicapped trophea before.



#95 STYACHT

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 09:07 PM

Thanks LeoV,

 

here is a bit of video from the start too.

 



#96 STYACHT

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:26 AM



#97 dolphinmaster

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:51 PM

Nice Roll baby!!!!







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