2
Anarchist
Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:59 AM
I'll come back at the end of the summer with some data points. Hopefully we won't be the only mixed fleet.
Fortunately our PHRF region doesn't have the same restrictions that apparently PHRF NE does. The successful Etchells fleet really helps.
Cheers,
jason
Anarchist
Posted 03 May 2013 - 03:30 AM
I'll come back at the end of the summer with some data points. Hopefully we won't be the only mixed fleet.
Fortunately our PHRF region doesn't have the same restrictions that apparently PHRF NE does. The successful Etchells fleet really helps.
Cheers,
jason
your etchells race phrf?
Anarchist
Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:39 AM
They have their own fleet in Wednesday night racing (W/L) and in the dedicated Monday night series (W/L), but for weekend races around the islands and govt. marks, they race PHRF and do very well at 126.
The same may happen with the sportboats here this year depending on our weekend numbers.
jason
Anarchist
Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:01 AM
Wow. What is the average wind speed there?
The M24 is sort-of a phantom reference here now, as we have all these other sportboat types, but no 24s anymore.
Anarchist
Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:55 PM
I dont race on the lake ontario , but in quebec city with very high current (its a river for fuck sake). Our club use the PHRF-LO ratings.
Anarchist
Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:58 PM
first race last night. we have to finish in the transom of a j/35 to be able to even think of winning.
we have 4 melges now... might as well do our own class
Anarchist
Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:41 PM
Ok i have read this whole thread. Good stuff. Ratings are subjective yada yada all true and more. So, I had this crazy thought...What if you take two boats in question and sail a measured mile upwind, mile reach and mile downwind each. Compare the times. Do this at 5Knts, 10 knts and 20 knts preferably. Yes it may take time.. Switch crews on these days and sail the other boat for a comparsion. I'm not sure why we can't have a format where the boats are measured for their ACTUAL performance not their perceived performance by handicappers in a room somewhere who may have never seen the boat. Just sayin, there must be a way to do this based on actual sailing speeds and boat's characteristics and not the skipper and crew ability, sails, clean bottom etc etc..
Ideas? Hope i'm not too crazy here..
Lead slug sailor
Anarchist
Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:33 PM
Down around Long Island we had a Melges 24 attempt to do the Around Long Island Race at a PHRF rating of 99. We also have a couple of J/70s on Western Long Island Sound that rate 111. Most people suspect that rating will be raised- quite a bit.
this is funny. WLIS J70 is 111? PHRFNE J70 is 117. Rodney Johnstone's J70 in ECSA is 120.
Anarchist
Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:55 AM
Ok i have read this whole thread. Good stuff. Ratings are subjective yada yada all true and more. So, I had this crazy thought...What if you take two boats in question and sail a measured mile upwind, mile reach and mile downwind each. Compare the times. Do this at 5Knts, 10 knts and 20 knts preferably. Yes it may take time.. Switch crews on these days and sail the other boat for a comparsion. I'm not sure why we can't have a format where the boats are measured for their ACTUAL performance not their perceived performance by handicappers in a room somewhere who may have never seen the boat. Just sayin, there must be a way to do this based on actual sailing speeds and boat's characteristics and not the skipper and crew ability, sails, clean bottom etc etc..
Ideas? Hope i'm not too crazy here..
Lead slug sailor
Not crazy. I may suggest this to our fleet. The VX One and J/70 now have ratings here, and my PHRF rep didn't think my Viper rating should change, so we ended up with:
099 J/92s (keelboat reference)
099 Melges 24
102 Viper 640
105 J/92 (keelboat reference)
108 VX One
111 Audi Melges 20
111 J/29 Masthead Rig (keelboat reference)
114 J/29 Fractional Rig/Penalty Pole (keelboat reference)
117 J/70
120 J/80 (keelboat reference)
Cheers,
jason
Anarchist
Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:32 AM
Anarchist
Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:52 PM
http://www.clubmarin...ngs/22141/41822
Do you guys have enough "Sportboats" to have your own fleet?
Surely you get annoyed at with the arbitrary nature of PHRF?
Anarchist
Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:26 PM
Jason,
You forgot our Rockets ;-)
Jerry, I have the Rocket 22 on my list of potential sportboats for our Lake Champlain fleet, but we don't have a local rating for it yet. That last list I posted was just local boats that LC PHRF have rated. We need Sylvestre to submit a PHRF app for his boat!
He can get it here: http://www.mbbc-vt.org/phrf/
jason
Anarchist
Posted 25 May 2013 - 02:32 PM
http://www.clubmarin...ngs/22141/41822
Do you guys have enough "Sportboats" to have your own fleet?
Surely you get annoyed at with the arbitrary nature of PHRF?
We are also going to try scoring our season under SMS as well as PHRF. I have another thread going to try to find SMS ratings for these boats (most of which we have). North America needs someone to become an SMS measurer to help us with some of the sportboats that haven't gotten ratings in Australia and NZ.
jason
Member
Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:27 AM
Gee, I wonder why Sailboat Racing is Dying in America ? 
Anarchist
Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:27 AM
http://www.clubmarin...ngs/22141/41822
Do you guys have enough "Sportboats" to have your own fleet?
Surely you get annoyed at with the arbitrary nature of PHRF?
We are also going to try scoring our season under SMS as well as PHRF. I have another thread going to try to find SMS ratings for these boats (most of which we have). North America needs someone to become an SMS measurer to help us with some of the sportboats that haven't gotten ratings in Australia and NZ.
jason
Do a deal With SMS/AMS rating office that you can provide your own measurements and allow sailmaker sail data. I know this is perfect but it is a start and you will find one guy in each fleet will know more than the rest and probably put his hand up to be the "Local" measurer.
Or use the Local IRC, PHRF, ISAF, whatever measurer..
Allow sistership data for say, the first season, but after a fleet is established all buts must have endorsed certificates.
Anarchist
Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:24 PM
Replying here in the SMS thread: http://forums.sailin...42319&p=4154440
Newbie
Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:00 PM
we rate 84 in quebec city with our melges 24. WIch is following PHRF-LO.
its seriously very difficult to be competitive , except in the perfect wind/current
Newbie
Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:08 PM
Anarchist
Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:21 PM
Member
Posted 08 June 2013 - 04:23 PM
And now they've dropped us down to 75 so unless the wind shifts and we can sail the kite all the way around the course we'll never be competitive...we still have the most fun on the water though...
The Melges 24s here are very competitive with a PHRF rating of 75. As a reference, the wind is almost always blowing 15+ knots. Most of the other boats they race against are keel boats - J80 (PHRF = 120), J33 (PHRF = 84), Soling, J24, and others.
Anarchist
Posted 10 June 2013 - 05:18 PM
And now they've dropped us down to 75 so unless the wind shifts and we can sail the kite all the way around the course we'll never be competitive...we still have the most fun on the water though...
Anarchist
Posted 10 June 2013 - 06:35 PM
I am assuming this is the J70 rating without the afterburners?
Ok i have read this whole thread. Good stuff. Ratings are subjective yada yada all true and more. So, I had this crazy thought...What if you take two boats in question and sail a measured mile upwind, mile reach and mile downwind each. Compare the times. Do this at 5Knts, 10 knts and 20 knts preferably. Yes it may take time.. Switch crews on these days and sail the other boat for a comparsion. I'm not sure why we can't have a format where the boats are measured for their ACTUAL performance not their perceived performance by handicappers in a room somewhere who may have never seen the boat. Just sayin, there must be a way to do this based on actual sailing speeds and boat's characteristics and not the skipper and crew ability, sails, clean bottom etc etc..
Ideas? Hope i'm not too crazy here..
Lead slug sailor
Not crazy. I may suggest this to our fleet. The VX One and J/70 now have ratings here, and my PHRF rep didn't think my Viper rating should change, so we ended up with:
099 J/92s (keelboat reference)
099 Melges 24
102 Viper 640
105 J/92 (keelboat reference)
108 VX One
111 Audi Melges 20
111 J/29 Masthead Rig (keelboat reference)
114 J/29 Fractional Rig/Penalty Pole (keelboat reference)
117 J/70
120 J/80 (keelboat reference)
Cheers,
jason
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